If I'm honest, I'm finding that one of the things I like about FFXIV (which I recently started playing and now favor over playing STO) is the business model. Yoshida (the FFXIV EP) said this in an interview a few years ago when asked if FFXIV might ever consider the Free to Play model: "The free-to-play model as an unreliable source of income predicated on devoting a lot of development resources to monthly consumable or cosmetic items in order to maintain profitability, leaving little time for higher quality story and battle content"
For the most part, and with STO in particular in mind, I agree with his opinion.
And furthermore, the Subscription model came up in conversation here a few days ago with a certain someone expressing the opinion that said model "pressures people into playing because they dropped money on a subscription". I disagree - at least in the case of FF. Firstly there is a Free Trial* that covers a healthy portion of the game. Secondly, from what I can tell, no-one who pays the Subscription resents doing so and seem satisfied that the sub provides a steady stream of quality content.
I certainly won't resent buying the sub when it becomes available again*.
To be honest, with regards to STO, at this point I don't feel that buying yet another ship makes any difference. I'm tired of expensive bundles and gambleboxes. I'm tried of buying new ships to replay FOMO fueled events that utilize existing TFOs on repeat. It's tiresome. I've said before and I'll say it again - it feels like the current STO EP wants us to pay, not play.
And no - I'm not saying or implying that the Sub model would work for STO. Simply expressing the opinion that I don't like STOs F2P business model. It used to be well balanced but I don't feel it is anymore.
*unavailable at present as the game's severs are overwhelmed with new players and Square Enix can't purchase new kit at the moment due to pandemic-related supply issues.
>> "...the Subscription model came up in conversation here a few days ago with a certain someone expressing the opinion that said model "pressures people into playing because they dropped money on a subscription". I disagree - ..."
I stopped playing both SWTOR and FF XIV because of the monthly sub fees, because it pressured me into playing to get my money's worth.
FF XIV not only charges the monthly fee but then also charges for new content, and still charges for cosmetics like costumes, costume dyes to change the colors, mounts, etc. SWTOR used to have crippling restrictions on F2P players but I think they've removed some of them.
I know some disagree, but I personally miss the days of purchasable content/expansion packs.
To put it as simply as possible: whatever a company sells is what they prioritize and make the most of.
Because STO sells ships, those are the priority. Mission type content is secondary, and they only make the bare minimum required to keep people around.
On the other hand, if a game sells content/expansion packs, they are motivated to prioritize those and make as many as possible.
Would I rather get everything for free? Sure. But if the choice is between:
A: a very small amount of free mission content each year, or
B: a large amount of mission content that available to buy
I would personally pick option "A". I would rather regularly have something new to play, even if it costs something, than have nothing new to play for a very long time.
I know the market has moved away from the traditional model that sells mission content, but hopefully one day this current model with crash and burn and they'll be forced to prioritize making actual missions again rather than ships.
I bought ESO during the steam winter sale. Ships and space are more my thing then fantasy stuff... but I mean I have played all the space stuff worth playing right now. The amount of content and DLC content for sale was unexpected.
Obviously its too late for that type of U turn with STO... but it made me wonder what STO would have been had they went that route of monetization. I mean paywalled content sucks in so many ways... but the gamble box driven monthly multi hundred dollar ship packs doesn't seem any better then one annual $30-40 expansion, and actual micro sale cosmetics.
Guild wars also has a model that is almost identical to ESO. One yearly mega expansion with a bit of free stuff sprinkled in between and micro cosmetics.
For years I only ever bought anything for ESO during that sale (I did eventually sub recently, though I would not do that with any other game I have played so far). A whole lot of people would not do even that judging by the criticisms I have seen of their business model.
And the buy-to-play model that charges for expansions only works if the base part of the game world is large enough, varied enough, and interesting enough to entice players to eventually buy those expansions (which could take quite a while for non-whales) without either running out of things to do in the meantime or being so big (and without enough variety) that players get bored before buying those expansions. And even that is assuming that they are interested enough to buy the base game in the first place.
That is not an easy balance to do and the majority of games with that business model failed long ago which is what brought about the invention of the F2P game in the first place. Most subscription-based games are gone too, though mainly for other reasons, most of those having to do with the economic uncertainties (and shrinking middle class) of the last few decades making people less inclined to make long term financial commitments for entertainments.
I would not have gotten ESO at all except for nostalgia over Arena and Daggerfall (I was still playing Daggerfall until only a few years ago using DOSBox) that had me wistfully checking on ESO periodically on Steam and noticed that big black Friday sale that actually brought its normally outrageous B2P price down to a doable level. And that was despite all the Steam reviews that said things like "Don't buy this game, it is not worth the expense, they gouge you at every turn".
While I really like the game, the "Barbie" aspect (which is so important to today's generally more casual gamers) of ESO is badly crippled by the expense of overcoming the restrictions on tinkering with the looks of the characters themselves (clothing is a separate thing, that can be done without paying if you like the default looks of the various armor sets if you go for looks more than function of the gear).
Like a lot of games, it has appearance change tickets but those are ridiculously priced at $15 for something that is better done as a microtransaction (microtransactions are defined as "about the cost of a cup of coffee" and top out at about $5), the same price as buying a whole new character slot (which is also a bit high itself). Also, most clothing/armor/weapon styles cost money to apply which further limits the ability to tinker with the characters' overall looks.
Another big problem is the storage squeeze. It is only slightly annoying in STO but it is almost at dealbreaker levels in ESO and BDO. In fact, I have not played BDO regularly in years because when I went back to college and did not have time to keep all of the intricate hireling industry stuff going it all crashed and caused a huge, complicated storage backup that I did not feel like digging out (it would cause quite a loss to just slash the inventory and essentially start over that rubs me the wrong way) and setting up all the automated systems again.
ESO is practically a different game during free ESO Plus trials since it is not a constant fight against storage limitations and it is actually possible to do entire mission strings and even more than one dungeon at once without stopping for an hour between each to shuffle things around all the characters in an attempt to compress the overly large number of different components to fit at least the ones currently needed in and still have enough room on the actively played character to go on to another dungeon or mission.
I actually have subbed ESO lately because of it in fact, something I would only do with that game because I have been a longtime fan of the disc-based Elder Scrolls games so there is that nostalgia factor, and just as importantly, the fact that there are so few good open world games out there, ones that have good enough AI and placing that the enemy looks like they belong where they are and doing what they are doing instead of just unrealistically standing around like pieces on a chess board waiting to get slaughtered. The realistic enemies go a very long way in keeping immersion intact.
The monetization model has to fit the game and the target playerbase or it does not work, and that is different for each game. That is where the business acumen comes in, correctly figuring out which model has the best chance of working for a particular game.
FF XIV not only charges the monthly fee but then also charges for new content, and still charges for cosmetics like costumes, costume dyes to change the colors, mounts, etc.
There's actually quite a few dyes you can buy just from vendors in game for gil (My dragoon's armor is a really nice shade of blue that I could get from the Ishgard Restoration stuff with skybuilders scrip or just off the market board for gil if someone's selling a stack), and some that can even be crafted. You can get quite a few mounts in game through the various beast tribes, the recurring mogtome event offers several, including some rotating mounts that are chance drops from extreme Trials, and even one I think is exclusive to the Mogtome event. And pretty much EVERYTHING you can wear can be used to glamour your outfit (class restrictions apply).
Sure if you wanna run around rocking Lightning's outfit from FF13 or ride around on Cloud's motorcycle, you'll have to go to the cash shop, but there's actually quite a bit that can be acquired in game without touching the cash shop. Hell... we had a crossover event with FF15 that had the reward of a 4 seater CAR from FF15. Will most likely appear in the cash shop later, but it was available in game by just running the event quests.
FF14 is still a sub game with paid expansions, it also gives out a LOT of content with those expansions. And the free trial actually extends through the first expansion. IMO as far as paid sub models go, FF14 is probably the good one. B2P model, probably ESO, although the battlepass login system I remember it having annoyed me. But I did get one of the expansions from that for free (Think it was Black Marsh or wherever the Argonian homeland is). STO is still a generous F2P model, and one I would still recommend based on that and the level of customization the game offers for ships and uniforms. Does STO have its problems? Yes, but so do a lot of other games. Is it perfect? No, but no game is.
Judge for yourself. If you like, you like. If not... *shrug* then you don't.
Regarding the subscription model, I believe that it is dead as it was, or should be dead. Just being able to collect a subscription fee and then sit on their butts and not release new content is one thing that pisses a lot of players off. We're expected to shell out the same amount of money each month only to not get any new content fot several months straight.
I believe that a reformed approach to subscription fees is in order. I would reform it as follows:
Make it where if you pay $15 for a 30-day subscription, then you sgould get an actual 30 days. A "day" would not be consumed until you log in, and another day would not be consumed unless you log in or are logged in 24 hours later. This means, if I go 15 days out of 30 without playing the game, I would still have 15 days left before I have to re-up. This nullifies that nagging feeling that if you don't log in every day you are wasting your money. It does not, however, stop some developers from sitting on their butts delivering nothing for months, but then, if nothing new is delivered, then many pople can simply opt out of logging in until it is, with unused access days not expiring.
Personally, I think that buy to play is really the only way to ensure that actual playable content is delivered regularly. If the developer wants to get paid, then they have to deliver actual content to be played. Speaking for myself, if I am not playing I certainly am not paying.
It's all a moot point until/unless the people calling the shots and allocating the funding for this game actually enable Cryptic to step up their game. and deliver content over fluff. I don't see anyone falling all over themselves to make that happen.
I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "Play when you feel like it" works better for me than "the clock is ticking on your $10-15".
That's why I prefer STO. The Legendary pack is $200 but it's a one-time fee vs. $156/year every year for SWTOR or FF XIV ($140 for ESO), while still paying extra for the cosmetics and for FF XIV content packs.
Subs don't make a ton of sense anymore I think most people can agree.... and selling expansions only works IF the game has enough players willing to pay.
The problem STO has always had has been the small development team they have. Its not like it was ever large. Would Cryptic have been able to put together a expansion that people would have paid $30-40 for every single year. Probably not. But they apparently think they can find whales to pay $300 5 or 6 times a year... which seems insane to me. For cryptic lets all be honest they are getting away with doing 1/100 the work and on an individual basis asking 10x the price.
I mentioned ESO cause I just bought it and ya it has a sub which after a few days of noodling with the game does seem more then a little obtuse. As they clearly make inventory annoying if you don't sub. I would consider paying a sub if it was like a pass that unlocked content and offered a stipend. The proper inventory paywall thing is super annoying.
Guild wars probably has things closest to perfect... the issue with their model is probably scale. You can't do what they do with out backsides in seats. GW2 I haven't played in a few years but last I was there their model seems about perfect. Cosmetics and expansions. STOs possible move to that model was way back around the delta expansion. STO with a yearly expansion of content and an optional sub would have worked imo. Cryptic kept the sub option around for long after the F2P transition. Did it offer a ton of value... no not really. Still I think the way to go would have been to drop Delta as a $30 expansion... include the basic "delta pack" they sold, and offer Delta Deluxe with the larger pack for $50. (if I remember right that is basically what they did... and should have continued doing the same) The game would have easily supported an expansion every year-year and a half. Think of all the content that has been pushed via lockbox... if 3/4 of that stuff was unlocked in an annual expansion. IMO they would have had a more sustainable model. Its also a great way to get new players to jump in... like I just did with ESO, throw those holiday sales out where you take the $80 deluxe package with the base game and 3-4 years of expansions and sell it at a deep discount.
Anyway the ship has sailed... I can't imagine the new owners would pull any major U turns at this point. Who knows how CBS would even react to any attempts to do that. No way to completely reconfigure the games format at this point.
For now I would just settle for Cryptic actually developing their F2P game enough to get the Dill exchange moving again and make their chosen model actually work. Right now it really isn't.
Does STO have its problems? Yes, but so do a lot of other games. Is it perfect? No, but no game is.
I'm not saying it's your intent, but I think too often people try to use the "no game is perfect" or "every game has problems" lines to justify or hand-wave away the specific problems that a specific game has. And I find that tactic really lame. Again, not saying you're intending to do that, but I'm taking this opportunity to say it.
But yeah, no game is "perfect" and every game has some "problems". But since this is the STO forum where we talk about STO, only STO's problems matter here. And IMO, I think the fact that they decided to let the dilex crash and burn really sucks. And whatever problems some other game may have doesn't make it suck any less.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
As someone who made HEAVY use of the DL Exchange... I too want the economy to be addressed. But I'm not going to rage because I know its a complex problem and there are no easy solutions that can just be plugged in at the drop of a hat.
We know they are working on it, but it does have to be alongside everything else they have to work on as well.
Just like you can't just wholesale dead stop development on the game to have a "bug fix season", which in itself is entirely impossible because even if you did somehow fix every bug, the next patch will introduce one, you can't do a dead stop to development to work on the economy because you still need to put out content as well.
Also seeing people advocate for a total dead stop to all development to fix bugs was one thing that REALLY annoyed me because of the abovementioned reason. You literally cannot have a bug free MMO. Its a living entity, constantly changing, and new code won't always play well with old code.
Yes... it sucks, but just because there hasn't been a fix yet doesn't mean they're ignoring it. Fixing an entire enonomy is no simple feat. Hell... I predict we're gonna be dealing with the fallout of this crash for years to come, even after we start getting things to balance the economy. So I see no reason to fly off the handle because they didn't release the magic bullet this week to fix the economy.
Raging and citing malice or incompetence solves NOTHING. It doesn't make a fix come any faster, and helps NO ONE, least of all the person raging. While I do believe we all need a good vent every once in a while for sanity... going Hulk Smash over something that can't be fixed when you want it to be does nothing but cause headaches for fellow forumites, and potentially mods trying to figure out if it warrants warnings for conduct. So personally I'd rather spend that energy on brainstorming ideas based on my knowledge of the game rather than pointless venom and vitriol for all the internet to see.
But that's just me I guess. Either that or I'll just vent on enemy pixels in a FPS game or something. Should probably brush up on my accuracy in CoD WaW, or actually fire up WW2 and finish that game. Maybe progress in Sniper Elite III.
As someone who made HEAVY use of the DL Exchange... I too want the economy to be addressed. But I'm not going to rage because I know its a complex problem and there are no easy solutions that can just be plugged in at the drop of a hat.
Sounds like we are in complete agreement then.
1: all games have problems.
2: no game is perfect (really the same thing as #1)
3: other games' problems do not justify or alleviate the issues we are talking about in this thread with the dilex.
4: no, people shouldn't be "raging" or "flying" off the handle. And 99% of people aren't doing that, so let's not strawman and pretend they are.
5: it absolutely sucks that the devs have let the dilex crash and burn, and people should keep saying so until it's fixed.
At this point, it's very hard for me to believe they have any genuine interest in fixing the dilex. Anyone who cared to pay attention saw the crash coming at least back in 2018, so this wasn't exactly a surprise event. Moreover, each time they've attempted even small, temporary measures to address the issue, they've simultaneously run C-store sales, which they have to know would cancel out any benefit.
That's not the behavior of a company interested in addressing a problem. That's the behavior of a company that wants people to think they care, without actually having to do anything substantive.
Regarding the subscription model, I believe that it is dead as it was, or should be dead. Just being able to collect a subscription fee and then sit on their butts and not release new content is one thing that pisses a lot of players off. We're expected to shell out the same amount of money each month only to not get any new content fot several months straight.
I believe that a reformed approach to subscription fees is in order. I would reform it as follows:
Make it where if you pay $15 for a 30-day subscription, then you sgould get an actual 30 days. A "day" would not be consumed until you log in, and another day would not be consumed unless you log in or are logged in 24 hours later. This means, if I go 15 days out of 30 without playing the game, I would still have 15 days left before I have to re-up. This nullifies that nagging feeling that if you don't log in every day you are wasting your money. It does not, however, stop some developers from sitting on their butts delivering nothing for months, but then, if nothing new is delivered, then many pople can simply opt out of logging in until it is, with unused access days not expiring.
Personally, I think that buy to play is really the only way to ensure that actual playable content is delivered regularly. If the developer wants to get paid, then they have to deliver actual content to be played. Speaking for myself, if I am not playing I certainly am not paying.
It's all a moot point until/unless the people calling the shots and allocating the funding for this game actually enable Cryptic to step up their game. and deliver content over fluff. I don't see anyone falling all over themselves to make that happen.
I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "Play when you feel like it" works better for me than "the clock is ticking on your $10-15".
That's why I prefer STO. The Legendary pack is $200 but it's a one-time fee vs. $156/year every year for SWTOR or FF XIV ($140 for ESO), while still paying extra for the cosmetics and for FF XIV content packs.
That's one of the points I was making though. As you say, the Legendary pack is $200 - and for what? Ten ships to use in ISA for the 2312334th time? Ten ships to use in whatever recycled FOMO event they're running?
This exactly.
Having engaging new content to accompany things is part of the picture, whether these "things" are legendary ships or new tiers for fleet holdings.
At this point, it's very hard for me to believe they have any genuine interest in fixing the dilex. Anyone who cared to pay attention saw the crash coming at least back in 2018, so this wasn't exactly a surprise event. Moreover, each time they've attempted even small, temporary measures to address the issue, they've simultaneously run C-store sales, which they have to know would cancel out any benefit.
That's not the behavior of a company interested in addressing a problem. That's the behavior of a company that wants people to think they care, without actually having to do anything substantive.
I vacillate almost every time I give a thought to this games developer competence. At times I think how could they not know changing the KDF admiralty missions fill a fleet dill pool would solve exactly zero... clearly they don't understand the issue. At other times I think well perhaps they really did think that was a solve for something... I mean when you say it out loud it almost sounds right. lol (if your not familiar that move did the exact opposite of its claimed purpose putting the final nail in the fleet sink)
Perhaps I'm being unfair the truth is almost for sure in the middle somewhere. However we all know the real issue is the constant search for quick fixes.
There is no quick fix, the only fix involves actual STO development.
What makes the crash frustrating right now... is coincides with Cryptic changing hands. Which begs the question ? Did they let it crash and burn on purpose. To either pad their books before completing their sale. Or so they could advocate for some fundamental model changes with the new owners. Who knows, and that is the frustrating part. A lot of unknowns imo in regards to STOs future. (no I'm not calling Doom I expect STO will survive for years yet) What does the future hold though... are they going to go back to developing this game ? Or continue dropping $300 legendary packs a couple time a year and $200 mudd ship bundles every month ? I suspect no one is going to have any real answers for a few months, first the Cryptic sale needs to close... and the new owners probably aren't going to give Cryptic new STO marching orders on Day one in the office either.
At this point, it's very hard for me to believe they have any genuine interest in fixing the dilex. Anyone who cared to pay attention saw the crash coming at least back in 2018, so this wasn't exactly a surprise event. Moreover, each time they've attempted even small, temporary measures to address the issue, they've simultaneously run C-store sales, which they have to know would cancel out any benefit.
That's not the behavior of a company interested in addressing a problem. That's the behavior of a company that wants people to think they care, without actually having to do anything substantive.
I vacillate almost every time I give a thought to this games developer competence. At times I think how could they not know changing the KDF admiralty missions fill a fleet dill pool would solve exactly zero... clearly they don't understand the issue. At other times I think well perhaps they really did think that was a solve for something... I mean when you say it out loud it almost sounds right. lol (if your not familiar that move did the exact opposite of its claimed purpose putting the final nail in the fleet sink)
Perhaps I'm being unfair the truth is almost for sure in the middle somewhere. However we all know the real issue is the constant search for quick fixes.
There is no quick fix, the only fix involves actual STO development.
What makes the crash frustrating right now... is coincides with Cryptic changing hands. Which begs the question ? Did they let it crash and burn on purpose. To either pad their books before completing their sale. Or so they could advocate for some fundamental model changes with the new owners. Who knows, and that is the frustrating part. A lot of unknowns imo in regards to STOs future. (no I'm not calling Doom I expect STO will survive for years yet) What does the future hold though... are they going to go back to developing this game ? Or continue dropping $300 legendary packs a couple time a year and $200 mudd ship bundles every month ? I suspect no one is going to have any real answers for a few months, first the Cryptic sale needs to close... and the new owners probably aren't going to give Cryptic new STO marching orders on Day one in the office either.
The situatio\n is abd in that it doesn't "pad the books" per se. Zen has ALWAYS been paid for in some form of RL cash, period. With a thriving Dil exchange there were players who specifically bought Zen to convert it to Dil because those players wanted/the refined Dil for a purpose. With the Dil Ex capped; pretty much everyone is using it to convert to Zen - and there isn't enough Zen being bought to fill demand for Zen via the Dil Ex.
It means:
- Some players who got Zen that way may have stopped playing out of frustration.
- LESS Zen is being purchased via real money across the board.
But I think upper management hates giving anything away for free long term and refined Dil is the one truly 'free' thing you get for playing STO - so anything you can buy using just Refined Dil is really Free. Thus anytime someone may propose a decent Dil sink; someone in marketing goes: "Or we could just sell it for Zen and get REAL money directly..." - IE - They're afraid to really commit to any sort of real substantive 'loss leader' situation that gives refined Dil more value in game.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Well I admit myself, episode content really has seemed to slow down a lot. When Klingon Civil War was on it wasn't quite as slow as what we've seen since Sept's release of a return to the Mirror. I mean we took a pause over the summer for the Event, yet then in Sept have received only 1 episode. I honestly would have thought we'd have had 2 at least prior to the Winter Event.
While it's possible a slight delay as they wanted to save spoilers, from what they planned for Anniversary. Still from Sept to February that would only be the 2nd episode.
At this point, it's very hard for me to believe they have any genuine interest in fixing the dilex. Anyone who cared to pay attention saw the crash coming at least back in 2018, so this wasn't exactly a surprise event. Moreover, each time they've attempted even small, temporary measures to address the issue, they've simultaneously run C-store sales, which they have to know would cancel out any benefit.
That's not the behavior of a company interested in addressing a problem. That's the behavior of a company that wants people to think they care, without actually having to do anything substantive.
I vacillate almost every time I give a thought to this games developer competence. At times I think how could they not know changing the KDF admiralty missions fill a fleet dill pool would solve exactly zero... clearly they don't understand the issue. At other times I think well perhaps they really did think that was a solve for something... I mean when you say it out loud it almost sounds right. lol (if your not familiar that move did the exact opposite of its claimed purpose putting the final nail in the fleet sink)
Perhaps I'm being unfair the truth is almost for sure in the middle somewhere. However we all know the real issue is the constant search for quick fixes.
There is no quick fix, the only fix involves actual STO development.
What makes the crash frustrating right now... is coincides with Cryptic changing hands. Which begs the question ? Did they let it crash and burn on purpose. To either pad their books before completing their sale. Or so they could advocate for some fundamental model changes with the new owners. Who knows, and that is the frustrating part. A lot of unknowns imo in regards to STOs future. (no I'm not calling Doom I expect STO will survive for years yet) What does the future hold though... are they going to go back to developing this game ? Or continue dropping $300 legendary packs a couple time a year and $200 mudd ship bundles every month ? I suspect no one is going to have any real answers for a few months, first the Cryptic sale needs to close... and the new owners probably aren't going to give Cryptic new STO marching orders on Day one in the office either.
The situatio\n is abd in that it doesn't "pad the books" per se. Zen has ALWAYS been paid for in some form of RL cash, period. With a thriving Dil exchange there were players who specifically bought Zen to convert it to Dil because those players wanted/the refined Dil for a purpose. With the Dil Ex capped; pretty much everyone is using it to convert to Zen - and there isn't enough Zen being bought to fill demand for Zen via the Dil Ex.
It means:
- Some players who got Zen that way may have stopped playing out of frustration.
- LESS Zen is being purchased via real money across the board.
But I think upper management hates giving anything away for free long term and refined Dil is the one truly 'free' thing you get for playing STO - so anything you can buy using just Refined Dil is really Free. Thus anytime someone may propose a decent Dil sink; someone in marketing goes: "Or we could just sell it for Zen and get REAL money directly..." - IE - They're afraid to really commit to any sort of real substantive 'loss leader' situation that gives refined Dil more value in game.
That is the thing about such a crash though. No doubt it lead to some more Zen sales for big ticket items. I'm not suggesting that long term they make more money with a month+ wait on the dilex. However when it first ground ashore. Yes I have no doubt plenty of people that where $20-50 bucks short of a big pack on sale bought Zen... thinking Cryptic will fix this shortly no need to panic but for now I am not missing this sale.
I understand all Zen is purchased. I am simply suggesting that when it first ground out it was because a couple big packs where on sale. Sales spiked without a doubt. Long term of course that is just going to dry the game out a little more and make it more likely Cryptic losses more of those whales that are buying Dil in big volume. The little purchases of $20 of Dil here add up, still we all know its those big whales that drop a couple hundred a month buying Dil that kept it humming. (I won't drop names but a few of them are well known).
I suspect it was more a case of... pushing more big packs out the door in such a small frame of time to get every sale they could, to ya pad the books. Fixing the Dil exchange at the same time may not have shown the metrics Cryptic was looking for. I don't know just speculating. My initial point is simply that it happened at the same time. Cryptic was in the middle of being sold and ran more sales then they have ever run before... and did nothing at all to "fix" the game economy. Lets all hope they and the new owners are planning to tweak things, and not just continue to push pack after pack after pack till the game empties.
> @sirsitsalot said: > > But that was not what happened. Instead they dropped the bomb that there would no longer be any faction-specific mission content, which meant that the choice of faction we made from the beginning meant nothing, and rather than hiring additions to the creative team to be able to roll out regular, monetized faction-agnostic story arcs, they opted to make their monetization reliant on gambling and the sale of fluff, with more and more emphasis on these things than anything that could be obtained with RD and thus creating a toxic descent into what we now have in the DilEx. > That’s a long sentence. I don’t disagree with you—I just want to point out there was only one full faction when the game went F2P. There were no unique KDF missions yet. I agree though—after they added LOR and the Klingon starting experience—they stopped developing faction-specific content.
And they never developed the Klingon-Fed war story or made territory mechanics or systems that allowed the factions to specialize.
Not even the story content is really specialized anymore. Even in the new Klingon civil war arc—my Klingon sounds like a Starfleet officer (T-T) (Those are warrior tears—I swear)
Regarding the subscription model, I believe that it is dead as it was, or should be dead. Just being able to collect a subscription fee and then sit on their butts and not release new content is one thing that pisses a lot of players off. We're expected to shell out the same amount of money each month only to not get any new content fot several months straight.
I believe that a reformed approach to subscription fees is in order. I would reform it as follows:
Make it where if you pay $15 for a 30-day subscription, then you sgould get an actual 30 days. A "day" would not be consumed until you log in, and another day would not be consumed unless you log in or are logged in 24 hours later. This means, if I go 15 days out of 30 without playing the game, I would still have 15 days left before I have to re-up. This nullifies that nagging feeling that if you don't log in every day you are wasting your money. It does not, however, stop some developers from sitting on their butts delivering nothing for months, but then, if nothing new is delivered, then many pople can simply opt out of logging in until it is, with unused access days not expiring.
Personally, I think that buy to play is really the only way to ensure that actual playable content is delivered regularly. If the developer wants to get paid, then they have to deliver actual content to be played. Speaking for myself, if I am not playing I certainly am not paying.
It's all a moot point until/unless the people calling the shots and allocating the funding for this game actually enable Cryptic to step up their game. and deliver content over fluff. I don't see anyone falling all over themselves to make that happen.
I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "Play when you feel like it" works better for me than "the clock is ticking on your $10-15".
That's why I prefer STO. The Legendary pack is $200 but it's a one-time fee vs. $156/year every year for SWTOR or FF XIV ($140 for ESO), while still paying extra for the cosmetics and for FF XIV content packs.
I've been spending a lot more time in FFXIV than I've been spending in STO as of late (I still log in, but mostly just to do events & stuff) as there's plenty that I feel I can & WANT to do in the game, especially since the game has moved the level goal post to 90. Like right now, I'm working on gathering and crafting classes to get them to level 80. I play every day so I get the money's worth of stuff. If you pay for 1 month, you can take off a month or however long you need a break for and then come back. You don't even have to play the game for that long every day. I do, because I have nothing else to do with my day.
In regards to the cosmetic items, many of those items & mounts are entirely optional purchases that have no major bearing on the game. Mounts are just mostly extras for you to have & there's plenty of outfits in game for you to wear that the ones from the shop are just nice to have extras.
> @davefenestrator said: > I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "
> @reyan01 said: > That's one of the points I was making though. As you say, the Legendary pack is $200 - and for what? Ten ships to use in ISA for the 2312334th time? Ten ships to use in whatever recycled FOMO event they're running?
I feel the same way as davefenestrator. I would rather spend money from time to time on zen store purchases, then a subscription fee. I do have a LTS, but still feel the desire from time to time to support the game and add something to my inventory with purchases of items from the zen store. I would rather have that than a $15 per month subscription fee like SWTOR does.
Maybe my style of play differs, but I find be much to keep me entertained in STO. I play 70% of the time with my main character. The other 30% is split between 7 other alt characters. Each character has a unique ship and a theme. I play only content with the character based on their theme. I rotate amongst my alts to keep it fresh. I do random TFOs, patrols, re-run story missions, go to adventure/ combat zones, roleplay, fleet admin tasks, chat with friends, participate in team missions. I am on for at least two hours a day, and never find it a drag. I only do events if the reward or the mission is interesting to me. Even for events I am doing, if I feel the drag and do not want to repeat, I skip a day or two. I only do endeavors that fall in line with what I planned for the day or spark an idea or interest. I approach STO in a very casual way and see it as entertainment.
I respect the opinions of the people on this message board, but it seems my experience it just the opposite of many have expressed.
It just seems there is so much negative opinion on these message boards and I wanted to express my positive opinion.
The main negative criticism I have of the game is all the poorly edited announcements. I find the typos annoying and confusing. Other than that, I think STO is a great game and I like what they are doing.
> @davefenestrator said:
> I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "
> @reyan01 said:
> That's one of the points I was making though. As you say, the Legendary pack is $200 - and for what? Ten ships to use in ISA for the 2312334th time? Ten ships to use in whatever recycled FOMO event they're running?
I feel the same way as davefenestrator. I would rather spend money from time to time on zen store purchases, then a subscription fee. I do have a LTS, but still feel the desire from time to time to support the game and add something to my inventory with purchases of items from the zen store. I would rather have that than a $15 per month subscription fee like SWTOR does.
Maybe my style of play differs, but I find be much to keep me entertained in STO. I play 70% of the time with my main character. The other 30% is split between 7 other alt characters. Each character has a unique ship and a theme. I play only content with the character based on their theme. I rotate amongst my alts to keep it fresh. I do random TFOs, patrols, re-run story missions, go to adventure/ combat zones, roleplay, fleet admin tasks, chat with friends, participate in team missions. I am on for at least two hours a day, and never find it a drag. I only do events if the reward or the mission is interesting to me. Even for events I am doing, if I feel the drag and do not want to repeat, I skip a day or two. I only do endeavors that fall in line with what I planned for the day or spark an idea or interest. I approach STO in a very casual way and see it as entertainment.
I respect the opinions of the people on this message board, but it seems my experience it just the opposite of many have expressed.
It just seems there is so much negative opinion on these message boards and I wanted to express my positive opinion.
The main negative criticism I have of the game is all the poorly edited announcements. I find the typos annoying and confusing. Other than that, I think STO is a great game and I like what they are doing.
As you say, each to their own. I, personally, want to play new content/stories, not the same recycled nonsense on repeat for two weeks. STO offers very little in the way of new/story based content of late, in favor of relentless sales of items to use in recycled content.
As I said in an earlier post: I've stopped budgeting for/looking forward to anything newly announced as I know it'll almost definitely just be another gamblebox/bundle/something else to spend money on or yet another recycled FOMO-fueled event. And just to prove my point, today's news item: https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11506523-35%-bundle-sale!
There's also a bonus dil week. Yeah, they're not even trying at this point. I get that there's no "quick, easy fix", but what they're doing now is actively counterproductive.
Regarding the subscription model, I believe that it is dead as it was, or should be dead. Just being able to collect a subscription fee and then sit on their butts and not release new content is one thing that pisses a lot of players off. We're expected to shell out the same amount of money each month only to not get any new content fot several months straight.
I believe that a reformed approach to subscription fees is in order. I would reform it as follows:
Make it where if you pay $15 for a 30-day subscription, then you sgould get an actual 30 days. A "day" would not be consumed until you log in, and another day would not be consumed unless you log in or are logged in 24 hours later. This means, if I go 15 days out of 30 without playing the game, I would still have 15 days left before I have to re-up. This nullifies that nagging feeling that if you don't log in every day you are wasting your money. It does not, however, stop some developers from sitting on their butts delivering nothing for months, but then, if nothing new is delivered, then many pople can simply opt out of logging in until it is, with unused access days not expiring.
Personally, I think that buy to play is really the only way to ensure that actual playable content is delivered regularly. If the developer wants to get paid, then they have to deliver actual content to be played. Speaking for myself, if I am not playing I certainly am not paying.
It's all a moot point until/unless the people calling the shots and allocating the funding for this game actually enable Cryptic to step up their game. and deliver content over fluff. I don't see anyone falling all over themselves to make that happen.
I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "Play when you feel like it" works better for me than "the clock is ticking on your $10-15".
That's why I prefer STO. The Legendary pack is $200 but it's a one-time fee vs. $156/year every year for SWTOR or FF XIV ($140 for ESO), while still paying extra for the cosmetics and for FF XIV content packs.
I've been spending a lot more time in FFXIV than I've been spending in STO as of late (I still log in, but mostly just to do events & stuff) as there's plenty that I feel I can & WANT to do in the game, especially since the game has moved the level goal post to 90. Like right now, I'm working on gathering and crafting classes to get them to level 80. I play every day so I get the money's worth of stuff. If you pay for 1 month, you can take off a month or however long you need a break for and then come back. You don't even have to play the game for that long every day. I do, because I have nothing else to do with my day.
In regards to the cosmetic items, many of those items & mounts are entirely optional purchases that have no major bearing on the game. Mounts are just mostly extras for you to have & there's plenty of outfits in game for you to wear that the ones from the shop are just nice to have extras.
That's like being a new player with STO -- endless story episodes, TFOs, patrols to worth through, admiralty and reputations and crafting to try for the first time, all the careers and ship types to try. All fresh and new.
Once you're caught up with the existing FF XIV content, you'll be back to waiting for new content drops and grinding recycled content just like with STO. At that point, paying $15 a month will seem more of a burden
Comments
>> "...the Subscription model came up in conversation here a few days ago with a certain someone expressing the opinion that said model "pressures people into playing because they dropped money on a subscription". I disagree - ..."
I stopped playing both SWTOR and FF XIV because of the monthly sub fees, because it pressured me into playing to get my money's worth.
FF XIV not only charges the monthly fee but then also charges for new content, and still charges for cosmetics like costumes, costume dyes to change the colors, mounts, etc. SWTOR used to have crippling restrictions on F2P players but I think they've removed some of them.
For years I only ever bought anything for ESO during that sale (I did eventually sub recently, though I would not do that with any other game I have played so far). A whole lot of people would not do even that judging by the criticisms I have seen of their business model.
And the buy-to-play model that charges for expansions only works if the base part of the game world is large enough, varied enough, and interesting enough to entice players to eventually buy those expansions (which could take quite a while for non-whales) without either running out of things to do in the meantime or being so big (and without enough variety) that players get bored before buying those expansions. And even that is assuming that they are interested enough to buy the base game in the first place.
That is not an easy balance to do and the majority of games with that business model failed long ago which is what brought about the invention of the F2P game in the first place. Most subscription-based games are gone too, though mainly for other reasons, most of those having to do with the economic uncertainties (and shrinking middle class) of the last few decades making people less inclined to make long term financial commitments for entertainments.
I would not have gotten ESO at all except for nostalgia over Arena and Daggerfall (I was still playing Daggerfall until only a few years ago using DOSBox) that had me wistfully checking on ESO periodically on Steam and noticed that big black Friday sale that actually brought its normally outrageous B2P price down to a doable level. And that was despite all the Steam reviews that said things like "Don't buy this game, it is not worth the expense, they gouge you at every turn".
While I really like the game, the "Barbie" aspect (which is so important to today's generally more casual gamers) of ESO is badly crippled by the expense of overcoming the restrictions on tinkering with the looks of the characters themselves (clothing is a separate thing, that can be done without paying if you like the default looks of the various armor sets if you go for looks more than function of the gear).
Like a lot of games, it has appearance change tickets but those are ridiculously priced at $15 for something that is better done as a microtransaction (microtransactions are defined as "about the cost of a cup of coffee" and top out at about $5), the same price as buying a whole new character slot (which is also a bit high itself). Also, most clothing/armor/weapon styles cost money to apply which further limits the ability to tinker with the characters' overall looks.
Another big problem is the storage squeeze. It is only slightly annoying in STO but it is almost at dealbreaker levels in ESO and BDO. In fact, I have not played BDO regularly in years because when I went back to college and did not have time to keep all of the intricate hireling industry stuff going it all crashed and caused a huge, complicated storage backup that I did not feel like digging out (it would cause quite a loss to just slash the inventory and essentially start over that rubs me the wrong way) and setting up all the automated systems again.
ESO is practically a different game during free ESO Plus trials since it is not a constant fight against storage limitations and it is actually possible to do entire mission strings and even more than one dungeon at once without stopping for an hour between each to shuffle things around all the characters in an attempt to compress the overly large number of different components to fit at least the ones currently needed in and still have enough room on the actively played character to go on to another dungeon or mission.
I actually have subbed ESO lately because of it in fact, something I would only do with that game because I have been a longtime fan of the disc-based Elder Scrolls games so there is that nostalgia factor, and just as importantly, the fact that there are so few good open world games out there, ones that have good enough AI and placing that the enemy looks like they belong where they are and doing what they are doing instead of just unrealistically standing around like pieces on a chess board waiting to get slaughtered. The realistic enemies go a very long way in keeping immersion intact.
The monetization model has to fit the game and the target playerbase or it does not work, and that is different for each game. That is where the business acumen comes in, correctly figuring out which model has the best chance of working for a particular game.
There's actually quite a few dyes you can buy just from vendors in game for gil (My dragoon's armor is a really nice shade of blue that I could get from the Ishgard Restoration stuff with skybuilders scrip or just off the market board for gil if someone's selling a stack), and some that can even be crafted. You can get quite a few mounts in game through the various beast tribes, the recurring mogtome event offers several, including some rotating mounts that are chance drops from extreme Trials, and even one I think is exclusive to the Mogtome event. And pretty much EVERYTHING you can wear can be used to glamour your outfit (class restrictions apply).
Sure if you wanna run around rocking Lightning's outfit from FF13 or ride around on Cloud's motorcycle, you'll have to go to the cash shop, but there's actually quite a bit that can be acquired in game without touching the cash shop. Hell... we had a crossover event with FF15 that had the reward of a 4 seater CAR from FF15. Will most likely appear in the cash shop later, but it was available in game by just running the event quests.
FF14 is still a sub game with paid expansions, it also gives out a LOT of content with those expansions. And the free trial actually extends through the first expansion. IMO as far as paid sub models go, FF14 is probably the good one. B2P model, probably ESO, although the battlepass login system I remember it having annoyed me. But I did get one of the expansions from that for free (Think it was Black Marsh or wherever the Argonian homeland is). STO is still a generous F2P model, and one I would still recommend based on that and the level of customization the game offers for ships and uniforms. Does STO have its problems? Yes, but so do a lot of other games. Is it perfect? No, but no game is.
Judge for yourself. If you like, you like. If not... *shrug* then you don't.
I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "Play when you feel like it" works better for me than "the clock is ticking on your $10-15".
That's why I prefer STO. The Legendary pack is $200 but it's a one-time fee vs. $156/year every year for SWTOR or FF XIV ($140 for ESO), while still paying extra for the cosmetics and for FF XIV content packs.
The problem STO has always had has been the small development team they have. Its not like it was ever large. Would Cryptic have been able to put together a expansion that people would have paid $30-40 for every single year. Probably not. But they apparently think they can find whales to pay $300 5 or 6 times a year... which seems insane to me. For cryptic lets all be honest they are getting away with doing 1/100 the work and on an individual basis asking 10x the price.
I mentioned ESO cause I just bought it and ya it has a sub which after a few days of noodling with the game does seem more then a little obtuse. As they clearly make inventory annoying if you don't sub. I would consider paying a sub if it was like a pass that unlocked content and offered a stipend. The proper inventory paywall thing is super annoying.
Guild wars probably has things closest to perfect... the issue with their model is probably scale. You can't do what they do with out backsides in seats. GW2 I haven't played in a few years but last I was there their model seems about perfect. Cosmetics and expansions. STOs possible move to that model was way back around the delta expansion. STO with a yearly expansion of content and an optional sub would have worked imo. Cryptic kept the sub option around for long after the F2P transition. Did it offer a ton of value... no not really. Still I think the way to go would have been to drop Delta as a $30 expansion... include the basic "delta pack" they sold, and offer Delta Deluxe with the larger pack for $50. (if I remember right that is basically what they did... and should have continued doing the same) The game would have easily supported an expansion every year-year and a half. Think of all the content that has been pushed via lockbox... if 3/4 of that stuff was unlocked in an annual expansion. IMO they would have had a more sustainable model. Its also a great way to get new players to jump in... like I just did with ESO, throw those holiday sales out where you take the $80 deluxe package with the base game and 3-4 years of expansions and sell it at a deep discount.
Anyway the ship has sailed... I can't imagine the new owners would pull any major U turns at this point. Who knows how CBS would even react to any attempts to do that. No way to completely reconfigure the games format at this point.
For now I would just settle for Cryptic actually developing their F2P game enough to get the Dill exchange moving again and make their chosen model actually work. Right now it really isn't.
I'm not saying it's your intent, but I think too often people try to use the "no game is perfect" or "every game has problems" lines to justify or hand-wave away the specific problems that a specific game has. And I find that tactic really lame. Again, not saying you're intending to do that, but I'm taking this opportunity to say it.
But yeah, no game is "perfect" and every game has some "problems". But since this is the STO forum where we talk about STO, only STO's problems matter here. And IMO, I think the fact that they decided to let the dilex crash and burn really sucks. And whatever problems some other game may have doesn't make it suck any less.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
We know they are working on it, but it does have to be alongside everything else they have to work on as well.
Just like you can't just wholesale dead stop development on the game to have a "bug fix season", which in itself is entirely impossible because even if you did somehow fix every bug, the next patch will introduce one, you can't do a dead stop to development to work on the economy because you still need to put out content as well.
Also seeing people advocate for a total dead stop to all development to fix bugs was one thing that REALLY annoyed me because of the abovementioned reason. You literally cannot have a bug free MMO. Its a living entity, constantly changing, and new code won't always play well with old code.
Yes... it sucks, but just because there hasn't been a fix yet doesn't mean they're ignoring it. Fixing an entire enonomy is no simple feat. Hell... I predict we're gonna be dealing with the fallout of this crash for years to come, even after we start getting things to balance the economy. So I see no reason to fly off the handle because they didn't release the magic bullet this week to fix the economy.
Raging and citing malice or incompetence solves NOTHING. It doesn't make a fix come any faster, and helps NO ONE, least of all the person raging. While I do believe we all need a good vent every once in a while for sanity... going Hulk Smash over something that can't be fixed when you want it to be does nothing but cause headaches for fellow forumites, and potentially mods trying to figure out if it warrants warnings for conduct. So personally I'd rather spend that energy on brainstorming ideas based on my knowledge of the game rather than pointless venom and vitriol for all the internet to see.
But that's just me I guess. Either that or I'll just vent on enemy pixels in a FPS game or something. Should probably brush up on my accuracy in CoD WaW, or actually fire up WW2 and finish that game. Maybe progress in Sniper Elite III.
Sounds like we are in complete agreement then.
1: all games have problems.
2: no game is perfect (really the same thing as #1)
3: other games' problems do not justify or alleviate the issues we are talking about in this thread with the dilex.
4: no, people shouldn't be "raging" or "flying" off the handle. And 99% of people aren't doing that, so let's not strawman and pretend they are.
5: it absolutely sucks that the devs have let the dilex crash and burn, and people should keep saying so until it's fixed.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
That's not the behavior of a company interested in addressing a problem. That's the behavior of a company that wants people to think they care, without actually having to do anything substantive.
This exactly.
Having engaging new content to accompany things is part of the picture, whether these "things" are legendary ships or new tiers for fleet holdings.
I vacillate almost every time I give a thought to this games developer competence. At times I think how could they not know changing the KDF admiralty missions fill a fleet dill pool would solve exactly zero... clearly they don't understand the issue. At other times I think well perhaps they really did think that was a solve for something... I mean when you say it out loud it almost sounds right. lol (if your not familiar that move did the exact opposite of its claimed purpose putting the final nail in the fleet sink)
Perhaps I'm being unfair the truth is almost for sure in the middle somewhere. However we all know the real issue is the constant search for quick fixes.
There is no quick fix, the only fix involves actual STO development.
What makes the crash frustrating right now... is coincides with Cryptic changing hands. Which begs the question ? Did they let it crash and burn on purpose. To either pad their books before completing their sale. Or so they could advocate for some fundamental model changes with the new owners. Who knows, and that is the frustrating part. A lot of unknowns imo in regards to STOs future. (no I'm not calling Doom I expect STO will survive for years yet) What does the future hold though... are they going to go back to developing this game ? Or continue dropping $300 legendary packs a couple time a year and $200 mudd ship bundles every month ? I suspect no one is going to have any real answers for a few months, first the Cryptic sale needs to close... and the new owners probably aren't going to give Cryptic new STO marching orders on Day one in the office either.
The situatio\n is abd in that it doesn't "pad the books" per se. Zen has ALWAYS been paid for in some form of RL cash, period. With a thriving Dil exchange there were players who specifically bought Zen to convert it to Dil because those players wanted/the refined Dil for a purpose. With the Dil Ex capped; pretty much everyone is using it to convert to Zen - and there isn't enough Zen being bought to fill demand for Zen via the Dil Ex.
It means:
- Some players who got Zen that way may have stopped playing out of frustration.
- LESS Zen is being purchased via real money across the board.
But I think upper management hates giving anything away for free long term and refined Dil is the one truly 'free' thing you get for playing STO - so anything you can buy using just Refined Dil is really Free. Thus anytime someone may propose a decent Dil sink; someone in marketing goes: "Or we could just sell it for Zen and get REAL money directly..." - IE - They're afraid to really commit to any sort of real substantive 'loss leader' situation that gives refined Dil more value in game.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
While it's possible a slight delay as they wanted to save spoilers, from what they planned for Anniversary. Still from Sept to February that would only be the 2nd episode.
That is the thing about such a crash though. No doubt it lead to some more Zen sales for big ticket items. I'm not suggesting that long term they make more money with a month+ wait on the dilex. However when it first ground ashore. Yes I have no doubt plenty of people that where $20-50 bucks short of a big pack on sale bought Zen... thinking Cryptic will fix this shortly no need to panic but for now I am not missing this sale.
I understand all Zen is purchased. I am simply suggesting that when it first ground out it was because a couple big packs where on sale. Sales spiked without a doubt. Long term of course that is just going to dry the game out a little more and make it more likely Cryptic losses more of those whales that are buying Dil in big volume. The little purchases of $20 of Dil here add up, still we all know its those big whales that drop a couple hundred a month buying Dil that kept it humming. (I won't drop names but a few of them are well known).
I suspect it was more a case of... pushing more big packs out the door in such a small frame of time to get every sale they could, to ya pad the books. Fixing the Dil exchange at the same time may not have shown the metrics Cryptic was looking for. I don't know just speculating. My initial point is simply that it happened at the same time. Cryptic was in the middle of being sold and ran more sales then they have ever run before... and did nothing at all to "fix" the game economy. Lets all hope they and the new owners are planning to tweak things, and not just continue to push pack after pack after pack till the game empties.
>
> But that was not what happened. Instead they dropped the bomb that there would no longer be any faction-specific mission content, which meant that the choice of faction we made from the beginning meant nothing, and rather than hiring additions to the creative team to be able to roll out regular, monetized faction-agnostic story arcs, they opted to make their monetization reliant on gambling and the sale of fluff, with more and more emphasis on these things than anything that could be obtained with RD and thus creating a toxic descent into what we now have in the DilEx.
>
That’s a long sentence. I don’t disagree with you—I just want to point out there was only one full faction when the game went F2P. There were no unique KDF missions yet. I agree though—after they added LOR and the Klingon starting experience—they stopped developing faction-specific content.
And they never developed the Klingon-Fed war story or made territory mechanics or systems that allowed the factions to specialize.
Not even the story content is really specialized anymore. Even in the new Klingon civil war arc—my Klingon sounds like a Starfleet officer (T-T) (Those are warrior tears—I swear)
I've been spending a lot more time in FFXIV than I've been spending in STO as of late (I still log in, but mostly just to do events & stuff) as there's plenty that I feel I can & WANT to do in the game, especially since the game has moved the level goal post to 90. Like right now, I'm working on gathering and crafting classes to get them to level 80. I play every day so I get the money's worth of stuff. If you pay for 1 month, you can take off a month or however long you need a break for and then come back. You don't even have to play the game for that long every day. I do, because I have nothing else to do with my day.
In regards to the cosmetic items, many of those items & mounts are entirely optional purchases that have no major bearing on the game. Mounts are just mostly extras for you to have & there's plenty of outfits in game for you to wear that the ones from the shop are just nice to have extras.
> I'd probably re-sub to SWTOR and FF XIV if the days worked like that. I'd consider ESO too. "
> @reyan01 said:
> That's one of the points I was making though. As you say, the Legendary pack is $200 - and for what? Ten ships to use in ISA for the 2312334th time? Ten ships to use in whatever recycled FOMO event they're running?
I feel the same way as davefenestrator. I would rather spend money from time to time on zen store purchases, then a subscription fee. I do have a LTS, but still feel the desire from time to time to support the game and add something to my inventory with purchases of items from the zen store. I would rather have that than a $15 per month subscription fee like SWTOR does.
Maybe my style of play differs, but I find be much to keep me entertained in STO. I play 70% of the time with my main character. The other 30% is split between 7 other alt characters. Each character has a unique ship and a theme. I play only content with the character based on their theme. I rotate amongst my alts to keep it fresh. I do random TFOs, patrols, re-run story missions, go to adventure/ combat zones, roleplay, fleet admin tasks, chat with friends, participate in team missions. I am on for at least two hours a day, and never find it a drag. I only do events if the reward or the mission is interesting to me. Even for events I am doing, if I feel the drag and do not want to repeat, I skip a day or two. I only do endeavors that fall in line with what I planned for the day or spark an idea or interest. I approach STO in a very casual way and see it as entertainment.
I respect the opinions of the people on this message board, but it seems my experience it just the opposite of many have expressed.
It just seems there is so much negative opinion on these message boards and I wanted to express my positive opinion.
The main negative criticism I have of the game is all the poorly edited announcements. I find the typos annoying and confusing. Other than that, I think STO is a great game and I like what they are doing.
There's also a bonus dil week. Yeah, they're not even trying at this point. I get that there's no "quick, easy fix", but what they're doing now is actively counterproductive.
That's like being a new player with STO -- endless story episodes, TFOs, patrols to worth through, admiralty and reputations and crafting to try for the first time, all the careers and ship types to try. All fresh and new.
Once you're caught up with the existing FF XIV content, you'll be back to waiting for new content drops and grinding recycled content just like with STO. At that point, paying $15 a month will seem more of a burden