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🪐"Strange New Worlds" officially announced 🪐

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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,898 Arc User
    psiameese wrote: »
    Since it's been said the series will be episodic, I shall be hopeful for a Strange New Worlds episode, written to introduce us to Caitians. Purrr-haps in an early season. With the final season having M'Ress join the crew as an Ensign.

    Jareth, Leonin Titan ... approves. XD

    It would be about nine years too early for M'Ress on the Enterprise, supposedly she did not join the crew until 2269. Her backstory is vague enough though that she might have spent a short time on it as an ensign but left before 2265 if you ignore the line in TAS about significantly mixed crews being a new thing because of improved medical and life support tech.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,836 Community Moderator
    Looking forward to seeing Captain Pike again.
    It would be about nine years too early for M'Ress on the Enterprise, supposedly she did not join the crew until 2269. Her backstory is vague enough though that she might have spent a short time on it as an ensign but left before 2265 if you ignore the line in TAS about significantly mixed crews being a new thing because of improved medical and life support tech.

    Well... technically speaking TAS is in a bit of a gray zone on canon status. Feels like some parts are while others aren't. Thanks to Discovery, I think we can say that M'Ress saying that mixed crews are new can be thrown out as we see a much more diverse Starfleet. Its a common issue with prequels showing more than what was in the original, or showing things that are different from what we were told of in the originals of that time period.

    I think in that case a quote from a certain Master of another franchise is accurate.
    So what I told you was true... from a certain point of view.

    While it might be too early for M'Ress... its not too early to say there was a Caitian at some point. Or they could pull the same thing they did with Tuvok and say that M'Ress had joined earlier, than took a leave of absense before rejoining.
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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,944 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Looking forward to seeing Captain Pike again.

    For sure. He's almost like "Captain America" set in the Star Trek universe. Like Cornwell told him, he and the Enterprise were "the best of Starfleet":

    "You sat out the war because if we'd lost to the Klingons, we wanted the best of Starfleet to survive. And as this conversation makes clear, that was you… and all you represent."

    He's a very inspirational character and I'm really looking forward to the show.

    Also, I think I might have posted about this before but this was a pretty good story about Pike and the Enterprise crew before S2 of Discovery:

    https://www.audible.com/pd/Star-Trek-Discovery-The-Enterprise-War-Audiobook/1508283192

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  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    Yeah I read “Enterprise War” based on your recommendation last time. It was pretty good. It certainly kept me entertained for 2 or 3 days. Thanks for the recommendation.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    if they avoid all the temporal stupidities and the mirror TRIBBLE, then this tv show will be perhaps very interesting.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,836 Community Moderator
    if they avoid all the temporal stupidities and the mirror TRIBBLE, then this tv show will be perhaps very interesting.

    Ah... but Jason Issacs has said he is interested in returning as Lorca, which means we may have to have some Mirror shenanigans as we never actually saw Prime Lorca dead. Its just assumed that he's dead. If Prime Lorca is as resourceful as his Mirror counterpart, I can see him surviving over there long enough to figure out how to get back, and maybe end up aboard the Enterprise.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,898 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    if they avoid all the temporal stupidities and the mirror TRIBBLE, then this tv show will be perhaps very interesting.

    Ah... but Jason Issacs has said he is interested in returning as Lorca, which means we may have to have some Mirror shenanigans as we never actually saw Prime Lorca dead. Its just assumed that he's dead. If Prime Lorca is as resourceful as his Mirror counterpart, I can see him surviving over there long enough to figure out how to get back, and maybe end up aboard the Enterprise.

    Issacs would be good at playing a part like that, with Federation ideals at his core but with a tough outer shell of pragmatism and multi-layered guile built up from his time in the MU. He may even be prone to the light problems of the mirror universe Terrans after having been there so long (along with possible covert medical treatments there to blend in better).
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,862 Arc User
    He wouldn't, because the sensitivity to light is an inherent genetic flaw in all Terrans...which is incredibly stupid, unrealistic and was never seen before - every location in the mirror universe ever seen prior to Discovery was just as bright as it was in the prime universe (except DS9, but given it was still being used as an ore processor there, lack of lighting is to be expected), which would be utter agony for Terrans if they had that light sensitivity all the way back to their first appearance.

    How the hell does something like that even develop anyway? What, did Terra's Sol never become a class G star and instead became a class M or something?​​
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,898 Arc User
    He wouldn't, because the sensitivity to light is an inherent genetic flaw in all Terrans...which is incredibly stupid, unrealistic and was never seen before - every location in the mirror universe ever seen prior to Discovery was just as bright as it was in the prime universe (except DS9, but given it was still being used as an ore processor there, lack of lighting is to be expected), which would be utter agony for Terrans if they had that light sensitivity all the way back to their first appearance.

    How the hell does something like that even develop anyway? What, did Terra's Sol never become a class G star and instead became a class M or something?​​

    Good question. There was some very brief throwaway comment about the light looking different and the Terran eyes adapted to it, but as usual in DSC they never did anything to support it. Someone in chat said something about one of the novels said more about it but I never read any of them so I cannot corroborate that (and depending on novels to compensate for lazy writing in the show itself is inexcusable in my opinion, just like it was for The Force Awakens, but that is something for a different thread).
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,836 Community Moderator
    Actually... I just found an interesting tidbit on Memory Alpha.
    Although this was only revealed in "Vaulting Ambition", in mirror universe episodes predating Discovery and following "Mirror, Mirror", Terran starships and habitats are noticeably darker than a Federation starship would be, and Jonathan Archer appeared to squint while in the captain's chair of the USS Defiant. As such, "Mirror, Mirror" not featuring dimmed lights on the ISS Enterprise was likely a product of the mirror universe being a one-shot location that the production crew did not expect to be revisited in the later productions that fleshed it out - in other words, what TV Tropes would call "Early Installment Weirdness".
    In "The Wolf Inside", Michael Burnham remarked that the light of the mirror universe was different to that of the prime universe and that "the cosmos [had] lost its brilliance", which can be interpreted not only symbolically, referring to the dystopian nature of the mirror universe, but also literally, referring to a physical difference that would account for Terrans being more photosensitive.
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Terran_(mirror)

    It could very well be that the Mirror Universe as a whole is just not as bright as the Prime Universe.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,862 Arc User
    And again...how the hell does that even HAPPEN? You cannot have an entire universe that that just isn't as bright as another, unless something went SERIOUSLY wrong during its formation.​​
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  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,651 Arc User
    They simply thought that identifying mirror characters through their goatees was silly and decided they need a new hint for the audience to tell who is 'evil'. That's it.

    Dimmer lights on mirror ships is a dumb thing to extrapolate terrans are photosensitive from. Klingons also don't 'squint' on Federation ships.
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,898 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    angrytarg wrote: »
    They simply thought that identifying mirror characters through their goatees was silly and decided they need a new hint for the audience to tell who is 'evil'. That's it.

    Dimmer lights on mirror ships is a dumb thing to extrapolate terrans are photosensitive from. Klingons also don't 'squint' on Federation ships.

    Klingons are different from Mirror Terrans, it used to be fanon that their vision was shifted towards red and Roddenberry apparently liked the idea enough to have it put in TMP. Klingon ships don't have dim red lighting to the Klingons, it is bright normal light to them since they can see deeper into the red end of the spectrum than humans can, and Federation standard lighting is a cold bluish light sort of like the old mercury vapor streetlamps look to humans from their point of view.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    angrytarg wrote: »
    They simply thought that identifying mirror characters through their goatees was silly and decided they need a new hint for the audience to tell who is 'evil'. That's it.

    Dimmer lights on mirror ships is a dumb thing to extrapolate terrans are photosensitive from. Klingons also don't 'squint' on Federation ships.

    yes, of course, it is ridiculous and far too much manichaeist. Good and evil are just a perception, and exist at the same time, an universe where an entire people would be evil, is ludicrous. I know that for the writers,The Terran represent the bad in the human race; but in the prime universe, this "bad" still exist in the federation: Burnham is selfish, Stamets same thing, some humans are still greedy etc.
    The temporal content is not interesting and from time to time pathetic; even the characters contradict themselves about the temporal mechanic. Star Trek would be more interesting without temporal and mirror stuff, for me it is just laziness based on the canon excuse and a lack of imagination. For this reason, these TV shows will never make it to my top 10 sci-fi shows.

    they should get rid of all that is ridiculous once and for all, even if it's canon, the quality of the shows is more important than this so-called legacy.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,836 Community Moderator
    And again...how the hell does that even HAPPEN? You cannot have an entire universe that that just isn't as bright as another, unless something went SERIOUSLY wrong during its formation.​​

    I think you're taking it a bit too serious. For all we know that is how the Mirror Universe developed.
    If you're throwing a fit over the Mirror Universe being somehow darker or with a different wavelength of light or whatever... you'll have an absolute hernia with Fluidic Space.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    rattler2 wrote: »
    And again...how the hell does that even HAPPEN? You cannot have an entire universe that that just isn't as bright as another, unless something went SERIOUSLY wrong during its formation.​​

    I think you're taking it a bit too serious. For all we know that is how the Mirror Universe developed.
    If you're throwing a fit over the Mirror Universe being somehow darker or with a different wavelength of light or whatever... you'll have an absolute hernia with Fluidic Space.

    A physical different universe would give birth to a totally different life form, not humans sensitive to light. Why, they didn't created an universe based on anti-matter? that would have been very interesting (1 episode of TOS is about an anti-matter universe). the writers of the shows should take a look at cosmos: possible worlds, and the other documentary presented by the awesome Neil De Grasse Tyson.
    In the 60's, their knowledge of the universe was basic, now in 2021, we have a better knowledge of it; Star Trek should adapt.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,955 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Actually... I just found an interesting tidbit on Memory Alpha.
    Although this was only revealed in "Vaulting Ambition", in mirror universe episodes predating Discovery and following "Mirror, Mirror", Terran starships and habitats are noticeably darker than a Federation starship would be, and Jonathan Archer appeared to squint while in the captain's chair of the USS Defiant. As such, "Mirror, Mirror" not featuring dimmed lights on the ISS Enterprise was likely a product of the mirror universe being a one-shot location that the production crew did not expect to be revisited in the later productions that fleshed it out - in other words, what TV Tropes would call "Early Installment Weirdness".
    In "The Wolf Inside", Michael Burnham remarked that the light of the mirror universe was different to that of the prime universe and that "the cosmos [had] lost its brilliance", which can be interpreted not only symbolically, referring to the dystopian nature of the mirror universe, but also literally, referring to a physical difference that would account for Terrans being more photosensitive.
    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Terran_(mirror)

    It could very well be that the Mirror Universe as a whole is just not as bright as the Prime Universe.

    Alternatively, the Mirror Terrans build their windows to filter out more light, because that's more comfortable to them.
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,898 Arc User
    Something I noticed (and used as a background for one of my characters) could explain the odd light sensitivity though it is mainly speculation.

    In the 1960s of Star Trek history the "eugenics program" would have had to be running, almost done developing the gene splicing babbled about in ENT for Khan and the older augments to be adults in the 1990s. At the same time Earth 2 was developing their longevity process. Both were disasters in their own way, the "eugenics" subjects had the aggressiveness and empathy-reduction side effect which eventually led to the Eugenics Wars and WWIII, and Earth 2's process mutated and went viral, turning into a plague that killed all the adults and left the children alive for centuries before Enterprise encountered them (and just by chance the Onlies seemed to avoid sunlight to some degree).

    If the Mirror universe really is a mirror, with serendipity driving the same general history as Prime Earth and Earth 2 that means that during their 1960s they must have had something going as well, and maybe whatever it was had results between those of Earth and Earth 2 where whatever the main thing they were trying to do just flopped but they got their aggressiveness kicked up a bit and their empathy lowered a little (neither to the levels the Augments had), and possibly had their senses sharpened a little, causing light sensitivity as a side effect.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,862 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    I seriously hope that IS what happened, because it would also explain that whole 'Terrans are genetically predisposed to being evil TRIBBLE' line that white-haired guy with the glasses said to Georgiou in S3 in a way that...well, I'd elaborate on just what I think of the obvious implication of that in the other possible way that could be taken, but I'd get banned.​​
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    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
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    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,898 Arc User
    From the names it looks like they might be splitting Number One's concept into two people (Una Chin-Riley) and a new one (La'an Noonian-Singh) unless they plan to have two eugenic transhumans aboard.
  • sennahcheribsennahcherib Member Posts: 2,823 Arc User

    the new uniforms are really cool. can't wait to see the first episode
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,898 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    I am definitely not a fan of those uniforms, they are pretty much just the DSC ones with different colors and collars. They have the same funky, binding shoulder pads and just about everything that they avoided in TOS (were the emphasis was on comfortable and practical clothing).

    Worse yet, the fabric looks like damaged velour instead of the velvet it was supposed to be in TOS but they did not have the budget for (which is how they ended up with the quickly deteriorating velour). Yet another case of looking at clips without researching what the stuff was supposed to be.

    I hope it is not a sign that the series is as shallow and haphazard as most of the other CBS Trek is.

    On the upside, it looks like they have a really good cast.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,862 Arc User
    Comfort is subjective and practical just means 'something that doesn't get in the way or restrict movement'.​​
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    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,898 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    Comfort is subjective and practical just means 'something that doesn't get in the way or restrict movement'.​​

    True, though there are common factors with the comfort aspect and the TOS uniforms were designed to address those (or at least in theory anyway, the cheap velour the actual costumes were made of was rather hot and scratchy).

    As for getting in the way and restricting movement, the SNW uniforms do just that (though not as bad as the new DSC ones). Just take a look at the stress folds in the shoulders when the cast moves, they are fighting the fabric, and it would bind even more if they put their arms over their heads to work on something overhead. And while that does not seem like a big thing, it can get fatiguing and/or irritating over time.

    Also, the felt-like surface does not have the velvet-like knap that was supposed to provide a measure of temperature control (remember, they ran around without jackets in near freezing temperatures without discomfort in at least one episode, and survived even deep arctic temperatures with just the uniform, a blanket, and occasionally heated rocks).
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,862 Arc User
    Yeah, that's never going to actually happen in real life - I can see clothing interwoven with electronic bits and wiring and a long-lasting battery pack small and light enough to fit in a pocket or something heating up clothing enough to stave off a typical cold winter as seen in the northern portions of the USA or southern Canada, but there's no way in hell any clothing will be able to replace heavy winter gear for actual arctic temperatures.

    No idea how cooling would be provided, but that might actually be easier to manage, even for extreme temperatures - can't be water-based, though, at least not without the ability to chill the water as it circulates, and can't use any freon or derivative, because while that works, look at how big even modern fridge cooling units are...and I don't think those can get much smaller than that and still be able to do what they do.​​
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    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."

    "Curiosity is bad! It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed...and more importantly, it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,944 Arc User
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