TBH, and a lot of the science people will prolly get their feeling hurt, but science is not really anything special. Never has been. Hundreds of runs in advanced/elite STF's, I have never come across one that could come close to the parser DPS of my Scimitar build. Drain builds? LOL. The only thing that was able to get some of these guys over 40k was SV. 40k close lil fella, got a long way to go to sustain 110k. Sustain means constant, not spike DPS in case you try to throw that in there.
I think its a little too early to cry DOOOOOM. It could be a result of the consolidated skills with the revamp that is currently being tested on Tribble. They're probably still figuring out a rebalance because of said revamp so things are going to be going up and down until they figure it out.
You can start crying doom. It wasn't just part gens that got a "rebalance". Energy Siphon and Tachyon Beam got hit hard by the hammer. The veredict is still out for grav well's reach.
On a positive note, viral matrix seems to have been left untouched which under the new tree gets to scale well.
Yeah...they've did this before...nerf the high end and buff the low end people who put every ounce of power they can into weapons.
TBH, and a lot of the science people will prolly get their feeling hurt, but science is not really anything special. Never has been. Hundreds of runs in advanced/elite STF's, I have never come across one that could come close to the parser DPS of my Scimitar build. Drain builds? LOL. The only thing that was able to get some of these guys over 40k was SV. 40k close lil fella, got a long way to go to sustain 110k. Sustain means constant, not spike DPS in case you try to throw that in there.
So, what you are saying is, Nerf Tactical, Buff Science?:D
Thing I don't understand is why should someone who puts all their effort into getting a full aux power high partgen or flow caps build suffer just to make it easier for the low end build to work better? And why the hell does the same some of adjustment not happen to weapons power also seeing as weapon power and buffs are the one thing in the game that really is not affected by diminishing returns or the like. It really does feel like an uphill struggle these days trying to make any kind of build other than some BFAW-spam-whale cruiser. Seems anything that isn't all beams gets shot to pieces with nerfs or "adjustments" any time it looks like it might be getting remotely good.
@nateham101#2745 I agree. Pure Sci builds are a long way from sustained 100k+ which furthers the point about why aux scaling in the high end isn't needed if the reason is balance.
I noticed a good hit to Aux Abilities also. But given that they mentioned the scaling is wonky due to certain abilities' mechanics, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt and called it a 'bug' rather than a 'nerf'. It may still be worked out before the transfer to the Live sever.
Thing I don't understand is why should someone who puts all their effort into getting a full aux power high partgen or flow caps build suffer just to make it easier for the low end build to work better?
And why the hell does the same some of adjustment not happen to weapons power also seeing as weapon power and buffs are the one thing in the game that really is not affected by diminishing returns or the like.
It really does feel like an uphill struggle these days trying to make any kind of build other than some BFAW-spam-whale cruiser. Seems anything that isn't all beams gets shot to pieces with nerfs or "adjustments" any time it looks like it might be getting remotely good.
Because...like I said they've done this what...two or three times already before...all that matters is *The FaW!*
TBH, and a lot of the science people will prolly get their feeling hurt, but science is not really anything special. Never has been. Hundreds of runs in advanced/elite STF's, I have never come across one that could come close to the parser DPS of my Scimitar build. Drain builds? LOL. The only thing that was able to get some of these guys over 40k was SV. 40k close lil fella, got a long way to go to sustain 110k. Sustain means constant, not spike DPS in case you try to throw that in there.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at here?
So a science build can't put out a sustained 100K DPS....so what!
The reason us science captains play our chosen roles are not because we're chasing some hallowed DPS number like you with your Scimitar seem to feel you need to. And to be honest I don't want to be able to put out 100K DPS, because then the game looses any challenge and just becomes an epeen waving contest.
We know that we won't be able to put out that sort of damage non-stop, but our builds can still be highly effective and competitive in any of the PVE queues, normal, advanced or elite.
So you go about your business in your Scimitar and we'll enjoy a different play style that isn't just flying in circles spamming BFAW at everything.
I think its a little too early to cry DOOOOOM. It could be a result of the consolidated skills with the revamp that is currently being tested on Tribble. They're probably still figuring out a rebalance because of said revamp so things are going to be going up and down until they figure it out.
You can start crying doom. It wasn't just part gens that got a "rebalance". Energy Siphon and Tachyon Beam got hit hard by the hammer. The veredict is still out for grav well's reach.
On a positive note, viral matrix seems to have been left untouched which under the new tree gets to scale well.
Appreciate the work that you do Lucho on the part of us who have Science Mains who are getting hit left and right and hard by these 'adjustments,' and I share the trouble of being cut off from character copy to tribble nevermind how little that will matter considering how soon these changes are going live.
Personally, I plan to shelve all but one or two alts (a tac and a sci, the few who happen to have respec tokens) for a good few months after this mess hits holodeck. I'm not LTS to afford a respec token across every toon nevermind the **** of previously used respec tokens tossed down the drain while listening to patently false reassurances of 'we won't lose anything' and other platitudes.
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And to be honest I don't want to be able to put out 100K DPS, because then the game looses any challenge and just becomes an epeen waving contest.
I'm with this guy. I'm content to get an average of 10k while maintaining my fun levels. The ability to vaporise ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING in a single pass... where's the fun in that? Not even a PvP focused player can survive that kind of firepower. That just becomes "first person seen is dead". And this is coming from a PvE focused player! We need less cookie cutter DPS and more diversity.
TBH, and a lot of the science people will prolly get their feeling hurt, but science is not really anything special. Never has been. Hundreds of runs in advanced/elite STF's, I have never come across one that could come close to the parser DPS of my Scimitar build. Drain builds? LOL. The only thing that was able to get some of these guys over 40k was SV. 40k close lil fella, got a long way to go to sustain 110k. Sustain means constant, not spike DPS in case you try to throw that in there.
Pretty sure that most people playing with science aren't doing so to get higher DPS numbers. Tactical builds are about....damage. That's it. That's the only goal. To some people, that's boring. Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make.
TBH, and a lot of the science people will prolly get their feeling hurt, but science is not really anything special. Never has been. Hundreds of runs in advanced/elite STF's, I have never come across one that could come close to the parser DPS of my Scimitar build. Drain builds? LOL. The only thing that was able to get some of these guys over 40k was SV. 40k close lil fella, got a long way to go to sustain 110k. Sustain means constant, not spike DPS in case you try to throw that in there.
And yet Cryptic continues to fear and persecute science over the past 18 months while allowing FAW to FIRE AT WILLLLL. I have to admit it has gotten very tiresome to me. I do have tac characters but my first love was science. And getting 40,000 exotic has felt like an accomplishment.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
TBH, and a lot of the science people will prolly get their feeling hurt, but science is not really anything special. Never has been. Hundreds of runs in advanced/elite STF's, I have never come across one that could come close to the parser DPS of my Scimitar build. Drain builds? LOL. The only thing that was able to get some of these guys over 40k was SV. 40k close lil fella, got a long way to go to sustain 110k. Sustain means constant, not spike DPS in case you try to throw that in there.
Thanks for your vote to nerf tactical, it's appreciated
Scim + SRO + AP is a nice cookie cutter, but after hundreds of hours I'd be bored out of my mind. New ships, new powers, new approaches keep the game fresh for me.
Ok y'all need to listen to the podcast that just went up today, bort explains the rebalancing of auxiliary Power and such. They simplified it by giving every power the same % bonus from skill points and Auxiliary power but they may have to adjust the base effect to compensate which they are working on currently.
Honestly i don't need to sustain 100k DPS when shields and armor are meaningless to many science ships so I fail to see your point. I kill stuff the easy way so I don't need the same massive numbers... :P
I think the tribble notes are a bit opaque, but if you are running aux at 100-130 that is obviously a straight up nerf compared to live no matter how you look at it. If they are saying that some powers are under utilising aux right now, why not just say that. Instead we don't know if the opposite is true and some powers are actually over using aux.
Yup, that's how I see it too.
The change to certain skills that use (what is now called) particle generators may be good or not, it's too early to determine that I think.
But removing or reducing the benefits of having auxiliary power above 100 is most definitely a nerf. And why only target auxiliary? Why not make the same changes to Weapons?
I couldn't agree more, but if they nerf science into the ground everyone will shut up about sci ships. That way they can continue to cater to the bfaw/dps crowds
I couldn't agree more, but if they nerf science into the ground everyone will shut up about sci ships. That way they can continue to cater to the bfaw/dps crowds
Nope. The call for more science ships will still exist because KDF and Romulans are sorely lacking in that department, especially in regards to the Admiralty System.
I think the tribble notes are a bit opaque, but if you are running aux at 100-130 that is obviously a straight up nerf compared to live no matter how you look at it. If they are saying that some powers are under utilising aux right now, why not just say that. Instead we don't know if the opposite is true and some powers are actually over using aux.
Yup, that's how I see it too.
The change to certain skills that use (what is now called) particle generators may be good or not, it's too early to determine that I think.
But removing or reducing the benefits of having auxiliary power above 100 is most definitely a nerf. And why only target auxiliary? Why not make the same changes to Weapons?
I couldn't agree more, but if they nerf science into the ground everyone will shut up about sci ships. That way they can continue to cater to the bfaw/dps crowds
Nope. I will never cease to Rabble Rabble Rabble for SCIENCE!
Thing I don't understand is why should someone who puts all their effort into getting a full aux power high partgen or flow caps build suffer just to make it easier for the low end build to work better?
And why the hell does the same some of adjustment not happen to weapons power also seeing as weapon power and buffs are the one thing in the game that really is not affected by diminishing returns or the like.
It really does feel like an uphill struggle these days trying to make any kind of build other than some BFAW-spam-whale cruiser. Seems anything that isn't all beams gets shot to pieces with nerfs or "adjustments" any time it looks like it might be getting remotely good.
Agreed. A top end partgen build easily costs hundreds of millions of EC and potentially millions of Dilithium if one wants to properly optimize with UR and Epic equipment. Not to mention the monetary investment in expensive T6 ships for traits like AHOD.
Theres no way low-end builds deserve or should be competitive with top end builds.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
I think its a little too early to cry DOOOOOM. It could be a result of the consolidated skills with the revamp that is currently being tested on Tribble. They're probably still figuring out a rebalance because of said revamp so things are going to be going up and down until they figure it out.
You can start crying doom. It wasn't just part gens that got a "rebalance". Energy Siphon and Tachyon Beam got hit hard by the hammer. The veredict is still out for grav well's reach.
On a positive note, viral matrix seems to have been left untouched which under the new tree gets to scale well.
The news on the Energy Siphon and Tachyon Beam is extremely disappointing, but hopefully it gets changed prior to release.
Retired. I'm now in search for that perfect space anomaly.
I couldn't agree more, but if they nerf science into the ground everyone will shut up about sci ships. That way they can continue to cater to the bfaw/dps crowds
Nope. The call for more science ships will still exist because KDF and Romulans are sorely lacking in that department, especially in regards to the Admiralty System.
I agree with that too, I picked up the paradox for my kdf sci because of it. A nerf to science could encourage some people(not everyone) to drop their sci builds, and less new people will roll new sci captains because their buddy says tac is king(not to say this isn't already happening) which could quiet that call for new sci ships. Right now its magnified due to a bug, but their does seem to be a nerf to offensive science based skills with the new system. There's supposed to be advantages and disadvantages to each profession, tac seems to be the exception and that only gets more obvious to me as more testing gets done. This is all just my opinion, I still think it can be a good system, but I also still don't really see how it will help new people be less confused outside of the improved tool tips.
TBH, and a lot of the science people will prolly get their feeling hurt, but science is not really anything special. Never has been. Hundreds of runs in advanced/elite STF's, I have never come across one that could come close to the parser DPS of my Scimitar build. Drain builds? LOL. The only thing that was able to get some of these guys over 40k was SV. 40k close lil fella, got a long way to go to sustain 110k. Sustain means constant, not spike DPS in case you try to throw that in there.
lol. Another scimitar user, who doesn't know how things work past tac/faw. Surprising? no.
TBH, and a lot of the science people will prolly get their feeling hurt, but science is not really anything special. Never has been. Hundreds of runs in advanced/elite STF's, I have never come across one that could come close to the parser DPS of my Scimitar build. Drain builds? LOL. The only thing that was able to get some of these guys over 40k was SV. 40k close lil fella, got a long way to go to sustain 110k. Sustain means constant, not spike DPS in case you try to throw that in there.
because flying in circle spamming spacebar using broken mechanics with Faw is so special, and or difficult.
go back to 100k dps channel where you can rejoin all the other exploiters using lazy unimaginative builds
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
I really hope science does not get made worse. I spent a fortune on my Romulan science captain, and this would be a very hard change to swallow if it goes down hill. I'll probably just end up playing a different game altogether if science ends up rubbish again.
There are a lot of bugs and math they have to figure out so be patient, Bort is making some adjustments good and bad but they are relatively minor for the most part. If somethings effectiveness is cut in half it is almost certainly a bug and will be corrected shortly.
Don't forget they are fundementally redesigning the game and it is a daunting but necessary task. We can all help out by testing the new systems and providing good constructive feedback in the Tribble subforum where Borticus has been hanging out a lot lately. In the end this will be a massive improvement to the game.
I swear to Almighty Q if Science gets nerfed AGAIN im.done with STO. I'm so sick of the one playstyle I love getting nerfed repeatedly while Tacs get more and more and more and more and more power....
I apologize for the incoming nerf. I've played MMOs for many years and have developed a super power. If I start a powerful class, it will be nerfed in short order...
Comments
Lol was thinking the exact same thing. Thank you for typing this, I didn't actually find the earlier comment worth replying to myself...
Yeah...they've did this before...nerf the high end and buff the low end people who put every ounce of power they can into weapons.
This is what...the 3rd time they did this?
So, what you are saying is, Nerf Tactical, Buff Science?:D
And why the hell does the same some of adjustment not happen to weapons power also seeing as weapon power and buffs are the one thing in the game that really is not affected by diminishing returns or the like.
It really does feel like an uphill struggle these days trying to make any kind of build other than some BFAW-spam-whale cruiser. Seems anything that isn't all beams gets shot to pieces with nerfs or "adjustments" any time it looks like it might be getting remotely good.
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The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Because...like I said they've done this what...two or three times already before...all that matters is *The FaW!*
I'm not really sure what you're getting at here?
So a science build can't put out a sustained 100K DPS....so what!
The reason us science captains play our chosen roles are not because we're chasing some hallowed DPS number like you with your Scimitar seem to feel you need to. And to be honest I don't want to be able to put out 100K DPS, because then the game looses any challenge and just becomes an epeen waving contest.
We know that we won't be able to put out that sort of damage non-stop, but our builds can still be highly effective and competitive in any of the PVE queues, normal, advanced or elite.
So you go about your business in your Scimitar and we'll enjoy a different play style that isn't just flying in circles spamming BFAW at everything.
Appreciate the work that you do Lucho on the part of us who have Science Mains who are getting hit left and right and hard by these 'adjustments,' and I share the trouble of being cut off from character copy to tribble nevermind how little that will matter considering how soon these changes are going live.
Personally, I plan to shelve all but one or two alts (a tac and a sci, the few who happen to have respec tokens) for a good few months after this mess hits holodeck. I'm not LTS to afford a respec token across every toon nevermind the **** of previously used respec tokens tossed down the drain while listening to patently false reassurances of 'we won't lose anything' and other platitudes.
I'm with this guy. I'm content to get an average of 10k while maintaining my fun levels. The ability to vaporise ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING in a single pass... where's the fun in that? Not even a PvP focused player can survive that kind of firepower. That just becomes "first person seen is dead". And this is coming from a PvE focused player! We need less cookie cutter DPS and more diversity.
Pretty sure that most people playing with science aren't doing so to get higher DPS numbers. Tactical builds are about....damage. That's it. That's the only goal. To some people, that's boring. Not exactly sure what point you're trying to make.
And yet Cryptic continues to fear and persecute science over the past 18 months while allowing FAW to FIRE AT WILLLLL. I have to admit it has gotten very tiresome to me. I do have tac characters but my first love was science. And getting 40,000 exotic has felt like an accomplishment.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Thanks for your vote to nerf tactical, it's appreciated
Scim + SRO + AP is a nice cookie cutter, but after hundreds of hours I'd be bored out of my mind. New ships, new powers, new approaches keep the game fresh for me.
I couldn't agree more, but if they nerf science into the ground everyone will shut up about sci ships. That way they can continue to cater to the bfaw/dps crowds
Nope. The call for more science ships will still exist because KDF and Romulans are sorely lacking in that department, especially in regards to the Admiralty System.
Nope. I will never cease to Rabble Rabble Rabble for SCIENCE!
(Good heavens Miss Sakamoto! You're beautiful!)
Agreed. A top end partgen build easily costs hundreds of millions of EC and potentially millions of Dilithium if one wants to properly optimize with UR and Epic equipment. Not to mention the monetary investment in expensive T6 ships for traits like AHOD.
Theres no way low-end builds deserve or should be competitive with top end builds.
I see this as improving lower level science Gameplay primarily and also making science hybrid builds easier and neither of those are bad things.
The news on the Energy Siphon and Tachyon Beam is extremely disappointing, but hopefully it gets changed prior to release.
I agree with that too, I picked up the paradox for my kdf sci because of it. A nerf to science could encourage some people(not everyone) to drop their sci builds, and less new people will roll new sci captains because their buddy says tac is king(not to say this isn't already happening) which could quiet that call for new sci ships. Right now its magnified due to a bug, but their does seem to be a nerf to offensive science based skills with the new system. There's supposed to be advantages and disadvantages to each profession, tac seems to be the exception and that only gets more obvious to me as more testing gets done. This is all just my opinion, I still think it can be a good system, but I also still don't really see how it will help new people be less confused outside of the improved tool tips.
lol. Another scimitar user, who doesn't know how things work past tac/faw. Surprising? no.
because flying in circle spamming spacebar using broken mechanics with Faw is so special, and or difficult.
go back to 100k dps channel where you can rejoin all the other exploiters using lazy unimaginative builds
Don't forget they are fundementally redesigning the game and it is a daunting but necessary task. We can all help out by testing the new systems and providing good constructive feedback in the Tribble subforum where Borticus has been hanging out a lot lately. In the end this will be a massive improvement to the game.
I started a Sci captain 3 weeks ago.