Whats up with that anyway? A Tyken's rift has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with the Mirror Universe or any kind of dimension hopping.
A Tyken's Rift is a rupture in space that absorbs energy, that's all.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
PG builds were getting out of hand and needed to be reduced. If you built your build around PG then your were not being science.
I'm sorry but I disagree with that assertion.
If you build for Science abilities you are doing Science in this game. The skills are in the Science tree, therefore they are no more or less "Sciency" than Drain abilities. Your claim is as outlandish as me saying that if you are doing Drains, you are not doing Science.
That's like saying a Tac flying an Escort using primarily torpedoes is not running a tac oriented build because he isn't using beams or cannons.
Like a Tac oriented setup (tac options can include Torps/Cannons/Beams/Mines) there are different approaches to building for Science.
I agree.
I also strongly disagree with the previous poster's assertion about DRB. I refuse to accept that, even on the best Partigen build out there, DRB can be made to be as preposterously OP as the almighty BFAW.
i also agree. my main is a science captain, flying a science ship, and most of my skill points in the new system will be going into the science tree. But I sure the hell am going to max partgens and use them. I don't see why I should be railroaded into only making drainboats because that's the only science power that still works.
Oh, and the Rift is the stupidest "power" ever, I refuse to use it. (on account of i'm sick of running around cleaning up the Terran mess left by people who do).
Rift is greatly underestimated, In a drain build use the rift you can drop the shields of all the mobs, thus making the sec del proc have 100% shield bleed though oppose to 50% with their shields up.
Damage/exotic is secondly to to your science abilities main function.
GW/tbr is about coward control 1st, then damage
Drain/disable/DRB is about making things easier to kill, then damage.
What we have now on science is people bypassing the science affect of these skills so they can make things go boom more quickly.
I am sure if this run on pg builds lately has to with sci players feeling like they should be equal to Tacts, or what. But science is not about maxing dps to be as effective as Tacts are in terms on dps.
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
This whole player driven meta dps thought really needs to go away. Under no circumstance has crytpic ever said you need to be a high dps player to play this game.
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
The point here is not that sci damage needs nerfed into the ground, the point here is that damage as a whole needs to be 'adressed'. It is totally out of control in the game, and frankly, if you don't agree, you are part of the problem. Sci damage or otherwise.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
This whole player driven meta dps thought really needs to go away. Under no circumstance has crytpic ever said you need to be a high dps player to play this game.
I dislike your mentality that a science character should be only viable for buffing others and be TRIBBLE by themselves. Also, they probably haven't said that, but that doesn't mean the game isn't mainly focused on DPS.
I am sure if this run on pg builds lately has to with sci players feeling like they should be equal to Tacts, or what. But science is not about maxing dps to be as effective as Tacts are in terms on dps.
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
which would be fine in a dps/tank/healer system, each would have a role to play, and i'd be perfectly happy in a crowd-control boat herding npcs into the waiting arms of the Tacs all day.
But that's not the system STO has. STO (at present) is "every man for himself", you have to hold up your own in a queue, to watch your own back, cos generally no-one is going to do it for you. True if you're a tac, and especially true if you're a Sci.
LUKARI GUERILLA GARDENING MILITIA - Glowing fingers are Growing fingers!
Ok, so, if PG damage is to stay how it is, then perhaps there needs to be an Exotic Resist stat (for NPCs too). 50% guaranteed shield penetration with no resist might be op?
Especially when you can get 50% Crit Chance and an extra 40% severity with 400 PG
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
This whole player driven meta dps thought really needs to go away. Under no circumstance has crytpic ever said you need to be a high dps player to play this game.
I dislike your mentality that a science character should be only viable for buffing others and be TRIBBLE by themselves. Also, they probably haven't said that, but that doesn't mean the game isn't mainly focused on DPS.
But this how science abilities were made.
I dont have a problem with sci doing damage, but it is out control.
I personally dont have any issue doing solo content in a science ship, as a sci toon with having low pg.
If you know how to use science abilities correctly you can find it easy to handle any solo content without high PG builds
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
This whole player driven meta dps thought really needs to go away. Under no circumstance has crytpic ever said you need to be a high dps player to play this game.
I dislike your mentality that a science character should be only viable for buffing others and be TRIBBLE by themselves. Also, they probably haven't said that, but that doesn't mean the game isn't mainly focused on DPS.
But this how science abilities were made.
I dont have a problem with sci doing damage, but it is out control.
I personally dont have any issue doing solo content in a science ship, as a sci toon with having low pg.
If you know how to use science abilities correctly you can find it easy to handle any solo content without high PG builds
But energy weapons doing even bigger damage is totally fine and not out of control at all for you?
If Science Captains aren't supposed to be able to jump into an escort/cruiser and DPS/Tank, then why don't Romulans and Klingons have anything else?
Cryptic and many of the players are quick to jump on the bandwagon and say it's peer pressure of the players that drives the meta, but what they fail to realize is the players are using the tools provided to their best abilities that they are allowed.
Am I supposed to say, "Well, damn, I made a Romulan Science officer, I guess I screwed up. Time to reroll fed tac."
Nope. I'm going to crunch numbers and make it work. This time those numbers pointed me to a Pilot Escort with 250+ PartGens 200+ Grav and a full loadout of weapon consoles so I can hang with the best of them. If Cryptic wants DPS to be the driving force, they reap what they sow. If someone has a problem with the way I build my ship, that's THEIR problem, not mine.
I'm only responding to the current meta and having a blast doing it. I'm not going to stop because some random guy says my character should be buffing his. Sorry, not gonna happen.
Most exotic damage powers do kinetic damage and are therefore resisted by kinetic resists.
If you don't use exotic damage builds how do you know they are overpowered and need to be nerfed? Dude your being stupid just stop it.
Calling names is the 1st sign of some one losing an argument, but that is not the point.
I have done PG builds, I do know all about them. I also know how boring, lazy and un-creative they have become. Sitting still shooting a laser beam (drb) is the same as a bfaw sitting still mashing the spacebar.
DRB is about debuffing and knocking off weapons. It does way too much damage and needed a nerf. TBR is about controlling mobs, not doing 2.k damage per pluse
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
This whole player driven meta dps thought really needs to go away. Under no circumstance has crytpic ever said you need to be a high dps player to play this game.
I dislike your mentality that a science character should be only viable for buffing others and be TRIBBLE by themselves. Also, they probably haven't said that, but that doesn't mean the game isn't mainly focused on DPS.
But this how science abilities were made.
I dont have a problem with sci doing damage, but it is out control.
I personally dont have any issue doing solo content in a science ship, as a sci toon with having low pg.
If you know how to use science abilities correctly you can find it easy to handle any solo content without high PG builds
But energy weapons doing even bigger damage is totally fine and not out of control at all for you?
NO i agree, as it was said above, ALL of the dps BS needs looking out
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
What would be the effect IF they removed overcapping weapon power on damage?
Balance would happen, and the parsers would scream like little girls at a horror convention.
"So you walk eternally through the shadow realms, standing against evil where all others falter. May your thirst for retribution never quench, may the blood on your sword never dry, and may we never need you again."
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
This whole player driven meta dps thought really needs to go away. Under no circumstance has crytpic ever said you need to be a high dps player to play this game.
Players are focussed on DPS because, in the end, it's the only thing that matters except for some queues like Gateway to Grethor and events like Mirror Invasion.
Don't blame the players for being driven by DPS.
If you want to see this issue adressed, that's understandable and you're not alone in this. However, they should start with changing objectives and making DPS less important. And then they might consider nerfing Sci, B:FAW etc. Doing it the other way around, first nerfing things and then possibly changing the objectives of missions and make the game about more than DPS or supporting this kind of action is illogical.
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
This whole player driven meta dps thought really needs to go away. Under no circumstance has crytpic ever said you need to be a high dps player to play this game.
I dislike your mentality that a science character should be only viable for buffing others and be TRIBBLE by themselves. Also, they probably haven't said that, but that doesn't mean the game isn't mainly focused on DPS.
But this how science abilities were made.
I dont have a problem with sci doing damage, but it is out control.
I personally dont have any issue doing solo content in a science ship, as a sci toon with having low pg.
If you know how to use science abilities correctly you can find it easy to handle any solo content without high PG builds
But energy weapons doing even bigger damage is totally fine and not out of control at all for you?
Most exotic damage powers do kinetic damage and are therefore resisted by kinetic resists.
If you don't use exotic damage builds how do you know they are overpowered and need to be nerfed? Dude your being stupid just stop it.
Calling names is the 1st sign of some one losing an argument, but that is not the point.
I have done PG builds, I do know all about them. I also know how boring, lazy and un-creative they have become. Sitting still shooting a laser beam (drb) is the same as a bfaw sitting still mashing the spacebar.
DRB is about debuffing and knocking off weapons. It does way too much damage and needed a nerf. TBR is about controlling mobs, not doing 2.k damage per pluse
It doesn't even come close to doing the damage that BFAW does and even slotted on more than one BOFF, it has a longer cooldown.
Besides, personally DRB was only one partigen benefitting ability I used. I prefer Isokinetic cannon over that, and the Quantum Destablising beam as a second option. But much like DRB, they have long cooldowns.
And frankly, the way things are - if you take a sci ship into ISA (the boring old benchmark for all things for some reason) you're only going to get to use those abilities once, because they take two minutes to cooldown and most ISA instances don't actually last two minutes anymore.
Ok. All I'm saying really is that the last part of your post is what needs to be adressed. I don't really care whose fault it is.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
If Science Captains aren't supposed to be able to jump into an escort/cruiser and DPS/Tank, then why don't Romulans and Klingons have anything else?
Cryptic and many of the players are quick to jump on the bandwagon and say it's peer pressure of the players that drives the meta, but what they fail to realize is the players are using the tools provided to their best abilities that they are allowed.
Am I supposed to say, "Well, damn, I made a Romulan Science officer, I guess I screwed up. Time to reroll fed tac."
Nope. I'm going to crunch numbers and make it work. This time those numbers pointed me to a Pilot Escort with 250+ PartGens 200+ Grav and a full loadout of weapon consoles so I can hang with the best of them. If Cryptic wants DPS to be the driving force, they reap what they sow. If someone has a problem with the way I build my ship, that's THEIR problem, not mine.
I'm only responding to the current meta and having a blast doing it. I'm not going to stop because some random guy says my character should be buffing his. Sorry, not gonna happen.
1. I agree Rom sci dont have a real t6 Rom sci ship
2. Cryptic never forces the player to be uber dps, this was driven by the players. You are correct that players are using the powers given to them, but that does not make this whole dps race okay.
3. I have no problem with sci doing dam, but it is getting out of control, on all sides, be a tact or sci.
I dont know, maybe it is my fault for using a PVP science build in the PVE ques.
But I am so tired of queing in, seeing uber 80k plus dps builds kill everything, and completing the mission in 3mins.
I would rather
a. have the optional in the mission be completed by working for it instead of massing everything in secs
b. have every one feel like they contributed to the success of the mission, this hard when one or guys blowing everything up before they can even fire a shot.
c. Have a concern of your team mates, by throw heals around to insure no dies, which is almost nonexistent, because the mobs die to quick to take any damage
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
What we have now on science is people bypassing the science affect of these skills so they can make things go boom more quickly.
I am sure if this run on pg builds lately has to with sci players feeling like they should be equal to Tacts, or what. But science is not about maxing dps to be as effective as Tacts are in terms on dps.
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
If Science Captains aren't supposed to be able to jump into an escort/cruiser and DPS/Tank, then why don't Romulans and Klingons have anything else?
Cryptic and many of the players are quick to jump on the bandwagon and say it's peer pressure of the players that drives the meta, but what they fail to realize is the players are using the tools provided to their best abilities that they are allowed.
Am I supposed to say, "Well, damn, I made a Romulan Science officer, I guess I screwed up. Time to reroll fed tac."
Nope. I'm going to crunch numbers and make it work. This time those numbers pointed me to a Pilot Escort with 250+ PartGens 200+ Grav and a full loadout of weapon consoles so I can hang with the best of them. If Cryptic wants DPS to be the driving force, they reap what they sow. If someone has a problem with the way I build my ship, that's THEIR problem, not mine.
I'm only responding to the current meta and having a blast doing it. I'm not going to stop because some random guy says my character should be buffing his. Sorry, not gonna happen.
1. I agree Rom sci dont have a real t6 Rom sci ship
2. Cryptic never forces the player to be uber dps, this was driven by the players. You are correct that players are using the powers given to them, but that does not make this whole dps race okay.
3. I have no problem with sci doing dam, but it is getting out of control, on all sides, be a tact or sci.
I dont know, maybe it is my fault for using a PVP science build in the PVE ques.
But I am so tired of queing in, seeing uber 80k plus dps builds kill everything, and completing the mission in 3mins.
I would rather
a. have the optional in the mission be completed by working for it instead of massing everything in secs
b. have every one feel like they contributed to the success of the mission, this hard when one or guys blowing everything up before they can even fire a shot.
c. Have a concern of your team mates, by throw heals around to insure no dies, which is almost nonexistent, because the mobs die to quick to take any damage
I concur. But the change has to come from the top and work its way down. Cryptic has to change things and drastically if that is ever going to happen. They designed many of the instances to be DPS driven, the players are simply responding and this late in the game, they have many years practice and tons of research into how to make things go boom fastest.
Now, if they did change things so DPS couldn't go all out without a Tank and a Tank couldn't do his job without a healer, imagine the outcry. I know some elites queues are close, but not quite there yet.
Right now, you have players wanting to play Science and players wanting to play Engineers in a Tactical run game. At this stage, it's either compete, reroll or forget about gaining marks from instances. I'm not sure about you, but I refuse to force someone to carry me through an instance. If I'm doing an instance, I'm going to do it as best as I can and I'm contributing as much as I can to an instance. That doesn't mean buffing some random Tactical guy because he thinks I should though. That's a different meta and not the one we currently have.
What we have now on science is people bypassing the science affect of these skills so they can make things go boom more quickly.
I am sure if this run on pg builds lately has to with sci players feeling like they should be equal to Tacts, or what. But science is not about maxing dps to be as effective as Tacts are in terms on dps.
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
I disagree with pretty much all of this.
As do I. As I said earlier, that is one OPTION a player can take.
Personally, I prefer using a damned powerful GWIII to hold enemies in place so that I can treat them to various debuff abilities (DRB being one) and shoving a mouthfull of TSIII (Krenim Chroniton being my current choice) down their throats.
Seriously - BFAW spammers really don't need help "making things go boom".
I think your are missin my point of what I am saying.
I always said dps as whole needs looked. that means bfaw aswell.
Sci should able to do damage, but it is out of control on holodeck.
In fact PG is about 1:1 on tribble compared to holodeck. Some things are less while some are higher. But this new Aux scaling which IMO is a great idea, and maybe we see this on the weapon power level as well is, using OSS to over cap your aux to get more out of your PG damage wont be as effective as before. which is a great thing.
At some point the amount of damage that one can do per second does need a cap and or be curved to prevent mass dps builds.
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
As do I. As I said earlier, that is one OPTION a player can take.
Personally, I prefer using a damned powerful GWIII to hold enemies in place so that I can treat them to various debuff abilities (DRB being one) and shoving a mouthfull of TSIII (Krenim Chroniton being my current choice) down their throats.
Seriously - BFAW spammers really don't need help "making things go boom".
Exactly.
If one isn't able to take advantage of their own control effects to do more damage, how in the world do they go through the FEs? Imagine 5 people like that queuing for a STF. Damage is everyone's primary goal. There is nothing in this game that can be won just by holding, confusing, placating, healing, etc. Nothing. If all one can do is secondary effects, they're only building to the weaker secondary half of their character.
Using your secondary effects to boost your damage? GREAT. A great side effect is that others are also able to take advantage of this. That doesn't mean you just ignore your own damage, and hope someone else does it for you.
Only using controls is as boring and ineffective as only tanking. You need to do a competent amount of damage. That's how it is.
But this new Aux scaling which IMO is a great idea
I sort of agree, but I also disagree, primarily because of the current game setting.
Exotic damage isn't the only one reliant to Aux. We also have heal skills boosted by Aux. You may argue that less healing is good, because it would promote a more "trinity" approach. However, the devs (Borticus to be precise) already stated that the game was not designed with a trinity in mind. They want us to pack the required DPS on our own and do a little bit of everything else while at it (listen to the last Priority One Podcast, he said it there).
Most of you are looking at DPS from the perspective of advanced STFs. The problem is, in Elite, you need that DPS, you need that healing power and you need that survivability. All of you complaining about 1min CCAs or 2min ISAs are looking at the result of a lack of elites in the game, or elite queues that actually reward players accordingly. Most of these DPS guys playing Advanced is pretty much akin to you playing in Normal. They are in content that are way below their capabilities.
Other Science abilities need a huge buff, and the current aux scaling goes against that. Quick example, bring your ship to a Hive Elite and see how well your drain boat does.
Lastly, if there was to be a subsystem that needed scaling, it's weapons power, not Aux. At least not Aux right now. When you balance things you scale down the outlier first. In this case it's weapons power (which has a much bigger benefit from overcap than Aux). Once you scale that down, you can do so with the others to balance things around.
I really think that scaling Aux was less about making the calculations simpler than allowing more tac-oriented builds to gain more from a lower-aux setting. Note that based on what I am seeing in Tribble, non-science builds stand a chance to gain in DPS. They don't want to nerf DPS. That much is obvious. Now while you or many others here welcome a nerf to a class that is already behind other classes in terms of damage (a quick look at the DPS-League will show you that the current DPS hierarchy is Tacs > Eng > Sci), it's not really going to help make Sci-play more popular.
Again, I am not judging the update just yet because I know they aren't final. Maybe they'll re-adjust base figures on all the sci abilities to match with the current Holodeck levels (plus/minus the effects of normalization) or maybe not. Hopefully their proclamation about players losing nothing remains true.
If Science Captains aren't supposed to be able to jump into an escort/cruiser and DPS/Tank, then why don't Romulans and Klingons have anything else?
Cryptic and many of the players are quick to jump on the bandwagon and say it's peer pressure of the players that drives the meta, but what they fail to realize is the players are using the tools provided to their best abilities that they are allowed.
Am I supposed to say, "Well, damn, I made a Romulan Science officer, I guess I screwed up. Time to reroll fed tac."
Nope. I'm going to crunch numbers and make it work. This time those numbers pointed me to a Pilot Escort with 250+ PartGens 200+ Grav and a full loadout of weapon consoles so I can hang with the best of them. If Cryptic wants DPS to be the driving force, they reap what they sow. If someone has a problem with the way I build my ship, that's THEIR problem, not mine.
I'm only responding to the current meta and having a blast doing it. I'm not going to stop because some random guy says my character should be buffing his. Sorry, not gonna happen.
1. I agree Rom sci dont have a real t6 Rom sci ship
2. Cryptic never forces the player to be uber dps, this was driven by the players. You are correct that players are using the powers given to them, but that does not make this whole dps race okay.
3. I have no problem with sci doing dam, but it is getting out of control, on all sides, be a tact or sci.
I dont know, maybe it is my fault for using a PVP science build in the PVE ques.
But I am so tired of queing in, seeing uber 80k plus dps builds kill everything, and completing the mission in 3mins.
I would rather
a. have the optional in the mission be completed by working for it instead of massing everything in secs
b. have every one feel like they contributed to the success of the mission, this hard when one or guys blowing everything up before they can even fire a shot.
c. Have a concern of your team mates, by throw heals around to insure no dies, which is almost nonexistent, because the mobs die to quick to take any damage
B and C can be addressed by improving enemy abilities and damage. They were on the right track with the Terran ships actually using the science abilities to crowd control some players in the badlands zone. Doesn't really matter if they can't get them off before they die, though. If people are using science as their primary healing for themselves, or others, though, engineering is more effective. HE only works well on cleansing DoT. Then again, when they tried to increase enemy difficulty at the start of DR, they increased HP of the elites so much that playing elite wasn't worth it for space. They've decreased it since then, but the fact of the matter is that many players past 60 still don't know how to play the game effectively. The gap has become so that the people doing large DPS in pugs largely carry the missions while the lower end goes about killing a few things, but not really learning what to do. Even on Ground missions such as Brotherhood of the Sword, this is largely apparent.
I'll advocate again for Cryptic borrowing a few ideas from FFXIV with gating the higher difficulties until you pass the current one and have a daily mission of queuing up for 3-5 random stfs of a certain difficulty for a bonus of dil/marks/ec/etc. to bring life to the older stfs that get no love and help newer players understand what to do at the same time. Maybe even force a scale back of the players' items' mk level for standard / advanced to put everyone on the same page, or limit the items to a certain mk.
Point A is more achievable in ground missions, but as many space optionals are easily done by simply killing everything, that's what the players gravitate to. Maybe have some optionals be 'x' amount of players don't get hit by 'y' amount of HYTs or heal other ships for so much. Or make something similar to the one mission where you have to disable borg ships for the cooperative and have it fail if you kill too many of them if you want to counter beamspam.
But this new Aux scaling which IMO is a great idea
I sort of agree, but I also disagree, primarily because of the current game setting.
Exotic damage isn't the only one reliant to Aux. We also have heal skills boosted by Aux. You may argue that less healing is good, because it would promote a more "trinity" approach. However, the devs (Borticus to be precise) already stated that the game was not designed with a trinity in mind. They want us to pack the required DPS on our own and do a little bit of everything else while at it (listen to the last Priority One Podcast, he said it there).
Most of you are looking at DPS from the perspective of advanced STFs. The problem is, in Elite, you need that DPS, you need that healing power and you need that survivability. All of you complaining about 1min CCAs or 2min ISAs are looking at the result of a lack of elites in the game, or elite queues that actually reward players accordingly. Most of these DPS guys playing Advanced is pretty much akin to you playing in Normal. They are in content that are way below their capabilities.
Other Science abilities need a huge buff, and the current aux scaling goes against that. Quick example, bring your ship to a Hive Elite and see how well your drain boat does.
Lastly, if there was to be a subsystem that needed scaling, it's weapons power, not Aux. At least not Aux right now. When you balance things you scale down the outlier first. In this case it's weapons power (which has a much bigger benefit from overcap than Aux). Once you scale that down, you can do so with the others to balance things around.
I really think that scaling Aux was less about making the calculations simpler than allowing more tac-oriented builds to gain more from a lower-aux setting. Note that based on what I am seeing in Tribble, non-science builds stand a chance to gain in DPS. They don't want to nerf DPS. That much is obvious. Now while you or many others here welcome a nerf to a class that is already behind other classes in terms of damage (a quick look at the DPS-League will show you that the current DPS hierarchy is Tacs > Eng > Sci), it's not really going to help make Sci-play more popular.
Again, I am not judging the update just yet because I know they aren't final. Maybe they'll re-adjust base figures on all the sci abilities to match with the current Holodeck levels (plus/minus the effects of normalization) or maybe not. Hopefully their proclamation about players losing nothing remains true.
Most it not all, I agree on all those points.
I judge the game and number based on advance content for the fact that there are so few elite ques. They only que I can not drain in is hive elite. Korfez I can. But outside of those ques, what do we have elite in?
I agree that nerfing dps is not their aim. I do feel the new system is about adding more gave and take into the game. If you do go high dps route you may suffer on healing etc.
Well yes Bort did say to that affect about the trinity, I do think that it can be suggested that when you make teams you consider it, like with what we see on hive elite, but for the advance leveled que system it may not be needed because how the quing works, but if self healing is reduced that can have a impact on team play with cross healing, tank etc.
Seem goes with if the dps get curved. My drain will increase the team dps because the AI shields are gone, and we dont fail the op because we had a good CC build on the team, which can make the mission run smoother.
If this new system creates more gave and take, which I think it may, then we should be able to see better team play other then blow up the mission in 2mins etc.
That is all I am asking and pointing out. this idea that sci is being nerfed is crazy, as you said we should reserve judgement intill it is finalized. But I think there areas, not just in sci, but every where that can be balanced, reworked and nerfed. And this new system provides the opportunity to do so.
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
Ok y'all need to listen to the podcast that just went up today, bort explains the rebalancing of auxiliary Power and such. They simplified it by giving every power the same % bonus from skill points and Auxiliary power but they may have to adjust the base effect to compensate which they are working on currently.
Yeah...they can claim what they want...they've done this before...nerf high end powers so FaW users get more mileage out of their lower auxiliary power while simultaneously giving the shaft to a alternative to FaW.
Don't try to TRIBBLE others over because you are getting it.
It's not TRIBBLE others over...it's equalization...it's obvious to anyone who isn't a biased fool that with everything FaW has...it's the king of this game and you need little else to play with.
Every time something gets good...they seem to nerf it...yet leave the most OP power completely alone while neglecting or even TRIBBLE over anything that comes close. People design drain, pull, or particle dps builds as a alternative to FaW...and they get nerfed.
All the devs care abouts is FaW, and selling lots of escorts and cruisers...but if you can't see that then you're just another blind conformist who only cares about big numbers.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Basically reading this it all comes off in 1 sentence. "Go Tac and BFAW or STFU and quit STO!" And frankly I'm soo close to quitting since Science was finally getting some.love but yet again the Tacs cry Foul and Science gets the Nerf Hammer because after all its Tacticals Online.
Comments
A Tyken's Rift is a rupture in space that absorbs energy, that's all.
This may true, but both need a nerf
Rift is greatly underestimated, In a drain build use the rift you can drop the shields of all the mobs, thus making the sec del proc have 100% shield bleed though oppose to 50% with their shields up.
Damage/exotic is secondly to to your science abilities main function.
GW/tbr is about coward control 1st, then damage
Drain/disable/DRB is about making things easier to kill, then damage.
What we have now on science is people bypassing the science affect of these skills so they can make things go boom more quickly.
I am sure if this run on pg builds lately has to with sci players feeling like they should be equal to Tacts, or what. But science is not about maxing dps to be as effective as Tacts are in terms on dps.
Science is about placing things, and making things easier for the tacts to make things go boom.
This whole player driven meta dps thought really needs to go away. Under no circumstance has crytpic ever said you need to be a high dps player to play this game.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
I dislike your mentality that a science character should be only viable for buffing others and be TRIBBLE by themselves. Also, they probably haven't said that, but that doesn't mean the game isn't mainly focused on DPS.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
which would be fine in a dps/tank/healer system, each would have a role to play, and i'd be perfectly happy in a crowd-control boat herding npcs into the waiting arms of the Tacs all day.
But that's not the system STO has. STO (at present) is "every man for himself", you have to hold up your own in a queue, to watch your own back, cos generally no-one is going to do it for you. True if you're a tac, and especially true if you're a Sci.
Especially when you can get 50% Crit Chance and an extra 40% severity with 400 PG
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
But this how science abilities were made.
I dont have a problem with sci doing damage, but it is out control.
I personally dont have any issue doing solo content in a science ship, as a sci toon with having low pg.
If you know how to use science abilities correctly you can find it easy to handle any solo content without high PG builds
If you don't use exotic damage builds how do you know they are overpowered and need to be nerfed? Dude your being stupid just stop it.
But energy weapons doing even bigger damage is totally fine and not out of control at all for you?
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Ok. You got me. I was talking about DRB.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
If Science Captains aren't supposed to be able to jump into an escort/cruiser and DPS/Tank, then why don't Romulans and Klingons have anything else?
Cryptic and many of the players are quick to jump on the bandwagon and say it's peer pressure of the players that drives the meta, but what they fail to realize is the players are using the tools provided to their best abilities that they are allowed.
Am I supposed to say, "Well, damn, I made a Romulan Science officer, I guess I screwed up. Time to reroll fed tac."
Nope. I'm going to crunch numbers and make it work. This time those numbers pointed me to a Pilot Escort with 250+ PartGens 200+ Grav and a full loadout of weapon consoles so I can hang with the best of them. If Cryptic wants DPS to be the driving force, they reap what they sow. If someone has a problem with the way I build my ship, that's THEIR problem, not mine.
I'm only responding to the current meta and having a blast doing it. I'm not going to stop because some random guy says my character should be buffing his. Sorry, not gonna happen.
Calling names is the 1st sign of some one losing an argument, but that is not the point.
I have done PG builds, I do know all about them. I also know how boring, lazy and un-creative they have become. Sitting still shooting a laser beam (drb) is the same as a bfaw sitting still mashing the spacebar.
DRB is about debuffing and knocking off weapons. It does way too much damage and needed a nerf. TBR is about controlling mobs, not doing 2.k damage per pluse
NO i agree, as it was said above, ALL of the dps BS needs looking out
Balance would happen, and the parsers would scream like little girls at a horror convention.
-Dedication plaque of the Federation Starship U.S.S. Merkava
Players are focussed on DPS because, in the end, it's the only thing that matters except for some queues like Gateway to Grethor and events like Mirror Invasion.
Don't blame the players for being driven by DPS.
If you want to see this issue adressed, that's understandable and you're not alone in this. However, they should start with changing objectives and making DPS less important. And then they might consider nerfing Sci, B:FAW etc. Doing it the other way around, first nerfing things and then possibly changing the objectives of missions and make the game about more than DPS or supporting this kind of action is illogical.
Ok. All I'm saying really is that the last part of your post is what needs to be adressed. I don't really care whose fault it is.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
1. I agree Rom sci dont have a real t6 Rom sci ship
2. Cryptic never forces the player to be uber dps, this was driven by the players. You are correct that players are using the powers given to them, but that does not make this whole dps race okay.
3. I have no problem with sci doing dam, but it is getting out of control, on all sides, be a tact or sci.
I dont know, maybe it is my fault for using a PVP science build in the PVE ques.
But I am so tired of queing in, seeing uber 80k plus dps builds kill everything, and completing the mission in 3mins.
I would rather
a. have the optional in the mission be completed by working for it instead of massing everything in secs
b. have every one feel like they contributed to the success of the mission, this hard when one or guys blowing everything up before they can even fire a shot.
c. Have a concern of your team mates, by throw heals around to insure no dies, which is almost nonexistent, because the mobs die to quick to take any damage
Pretty sure you have that backwards.
I disagree with pretty much all of this.
I concur. But the change has to come from the top and work its way down. Cryptic has to change things and drastically if that is ever going to happen. They designed many of the instances to be DPS driven, the players are simply responding and this late in the game, they have many years practice and tons of research into how to make things go boom fastest.
Now, if they did change things so DPS couldn't go all out without a Tank and a Tank couldn't do his job without a healer, imagine the outcry. I know some elites queues are close, but not quite there yet.
Right now, you have players wanting to play Science and players wanting to play Engineers in a Tactical run game. At this stage, it's either compete, reroll or forget about gaining marks from instances. I'm not sure about you, but I refuse to force someone to carry me through an instance. If I'm doing an instance, I'm going to do it as best as I can and I'm contributing as much as I can to an instance. That doesn't mean buffing some random Tactical guy because he thinks I should though. That's a different meta and not the one we currently have.
I think your are missin my point of what I am saying.
I always said dps as whole needs looked. that means bfaw aswell.
Sci should able to do damage, but it is out of control on holodeck.
In fact PG is about 1:1 on tribble compared to holodeck. Some things are less while some are higher. But this new Aux scaling which IMO is a great idea, and maybe we see this on the weapon power level as well is, using OSS to over cap your aux to get more out of your PG damage wont be as effective as before. which is a great thing.
At some point the amount of damage that one can do per second does need a cap and or be curved to prevent mass dps builds.
Exactly.
If one isn't able to take advantage of their own control effects to do more damage, how in the world do they go through the FEs? Imagine 5 people like that queuing for a STF. Damage is everyone's primary goal. There is nothing in this game that can be won just by holding, confusing, placating, healing, etc. Nothing. If all one can do is secondary effects, they're only building to the weaker secondary half of their character.
Using your secondary effects to boost your damage? GREAT. A great side effect is that others are also able to take advantage of this. That doesn't mean you just ignore your own damage, and hope someone else does it for you.
Only using controls is as boring and ineffective as only tanking. You need to do a competent amount of damage. That's how it is.
I sort of agree, but I also disagree, primarily because of the current game setting.
I really think that scaling Aux was less about making the calculations simpler than allowing more tac-oriented builds to gain more from a lower-aux setting. Note that based on what I am seeing in Tribble, non-science builds stand a chance to gain in DPS. They don't want to nerf DPS. That much is obvious. Now while you or many others here welcome a nerf to a class that is already behind other classes in terms of damage (a quick look at the DPS-League will show you that the current DPS hierarchy is Tacs > Eng > Sci), it's not really going to help make Sci-play more popular.
Again, I am not judging the update just yet because I know they aren't final. Maybe they'll re-adjust base figures on all the sci abilities to match with the current Holodeck levels (plus/minus the effects of normalization) or maybe not. Hopefully their proclamation about players losing nothing remains true.
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B and C can be addressed by improving enemy abilities and damage. They were on the right track with the Terran ships actually using the science abilities to crowd control some players in the badlands zone. Doesn't really matter if they can't get them off before they die, though. If people are using science as their primary healing for themselves, or others, though, engineering is more effective. HE only works well on cleansing DoT. Then again, when they tried to increase enemy difficulty at the start of DR, they increased HP of the elites so much that playing elite wasn't worth it for space. They've decreased it since then, but the fact of the matter is that many players past 60 still don't know how to play the game effectively. The gap has become so that the people doing large DPS in pugs largely carry the missions while the lower end goes about killing a few things, but not really learning what to do. Even on Ground missions such as Brotherhood of the Sword, this is largely apparent.
I'll advocate again for Cryptic borrowing a few ideas from FFXIV with gating the higher difficulties until you pass the current one and have a daily mission of queuing up for 3-5 random stfs of a certain difficulty for a bonus of dil/marks/ec/etc. to bring life to the older stfs that get no love and help newer players understand what to do at the same time. Maybe even force a scale back of the players' items' mk level for standard / advanced to put everyone on the same page, or limit the items to a certain mk.
Point A is more achievable in ground missions, but as many space optionals are easily done by simply killing everything, that's what the players gravitate to. Maybe have some optionals be 'x' amount of players don't get hit by 'y' amount of HYTs or heal other ships for so much. Or make something similar to the one mission where you have to disable borg ships for the cooperative and have it fail if you kill too many of them if you want to counter beamspam.
Most it not all, I agree on all those points.
I judge the game and number based on advance content for the fact that there are so few elite ques. They only que I can not drain in is hive elite. Korfez I can. But outside of those ques, what do we have elite in?
I agree that nerfing dps is not their aim. I do feel the new system is about adding more gave and take into the game. If you do go high dps route you may suffer on healing etc.
Well yes Bort did say to that affect about the trinity, I do think that it can be suggested that when you make teams you consider it, like with what we see on hive elite, but for the advance leveled que system it may not be needed because how the quing works, but if self healing is reduced that can have a impact on team play with cross healing, tank etc.
Seem goes with if the dps get curved. My drain will increase the team dps because the AI shields are gone, and we dont fail the op because we had a good CC build on the team, which can make the mission run smoother.
If this new system creates more gave and take, which I think it may, then we should be able to see better team play other then blow up the mission in 2mins etc.
That is all I am asking and pointing out. this idea that sci is being nerfed is crazy, as you said we should reserve judgement intill it is finalized. But I think there areas, not just in sci, but every where that can be balanced, reworked and nerfed. And this new system provides the opportunity to do so.
Yeah...they can claim what they want...they've done this before...nerf high end powers so FaW users get more mileage out of their lower auxiliary power while simultaneously giving the shaft to a alternative to FaW.
It's not TRIBBLE others over...it's equalization...it's obvious to anyone who isn't a biased fool that with everything FaW has...it's the king of this game and you need little else to play with.
Every time something gets good...they seem to nerf it...yet leave the most OP power completely alone while neglecting or even TRIBBLE over anything that comes close. People design drain, pull, or particle dps builds as a alternative to FaW...and they get nerfed.
All the devs care abouts is FaW, and selling lots of escorts and cruisers...but if you can't see that then you're just another blind conformist who only cares about big numbers.
As in: FAW1 = -50% FAW3 = -15%
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Tribble with reduction % from Holodeck
Drain 395.8
Siphon1 - 26.8 = -40% drain
Siphon2 - 35.8 = -40% drain
Siphon3 - 44.7 = -40% drain
Drain 205.6
Siphon1 - 18.3 = -33% drain
Siphon2 - 24.3 = -33% drain
Siphon3 - 30.4 = -33% drain
Drain 100
Siphon1 - 13.5 = -25% drain
Siphon2 - 18.0 = -25% drain
Siphon3 - 22.5 = -25% drain
Aux 33
Siphon duration - 4.3 sec = -61% duration
Aux 68
Siphon duration - 7.8 sec = -50% duration
Aux 125
Siphon duration - 12.6 sec = -46% duration
Holodeck
Drain 395.8
Siphon1 - 44.6
Siphon2 - 59.5
Siphon3 - 74.4
Drain 205.6
Siphon1 - 27.5
Siphon2 - 36.7
Siphon3 - 45.8
Drain 100
Siphon1 - 18
Siphon2 - 24
Siphon3 - 30
Aux 33
Siphon duration - 11.1 sec
Aux 68
Siphon duration - 15.7 sec
Aux 125
Siphon duration - 23.3 sec
Equation comparisson
ES1
Holodeck - 0.09 *Flow +9
Tribble - 0.045*Drain+9
ES2
Holodeck - 0.12 *Flow +12
Tribble - 0.06 *Drain+12
ES3
Holodeck - 0.15 *Flow +15
Tribble - 0.075*Drain+15
Time duration
Holodeck (approx) = 0.133*Aux+6.665
Tribble (apporx) = 0.09*Aux+1.5
plus one to that idea ^^
faw should also have a Aggro mechanic built into it, so if you use FAW to add +100% to threat gen