All I have to say is this. I have seen engineers take ships into the beating heart of a furnace in MU, 5-7 Typhoons and other trash firing away at it, and simply sit there, take it and endure while dishing out fire and proceed to eventually kill them all. SOLO.
There is no tac captain out there that could of pulled that stunt and lived. Period the end.
Tac captains are good at good spike damage, but damage long term, giving it out as fast as you are taking it, sorry engineers will always outlast every other class bar none.
Into the beating heart of a furnace of Typhoons. Well then if an engineer can outlast normal content then all must be right in the world. :rolleyes:
Into the beating heart of a furnace of Typhoons. Well then if an engineer can outlast normal content then all must be right in the world. :rolleyes:
Hey all I am saying, their survivability, is literally second to none. And can still dish out damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
My engineer laughs at the idea of being useless from behind his 3 quantum mortars, 3 turrets, and orbital barrage.
Also behind his redundant shields behind redundant shields behind a reinforced hull behind an even more reinforced hull. Redundancies for redundancies, and then if that doesn't work a good old Miracle Worker (and maybe even Grace Under Fire!).
Also, the EPS manifold trait is really nice when you want to see 125 in all power subsystems, and you're carrying an [AMP] warp core. Just saying.
Unless you are
A: The 1% that can build a tactical that can cover its own behind and still spit out DPS like a tactical.
B: The .001% that you can wipe out fleets of ships before you before they can see you.
C: Lucky enough to have an engineer or scientist willing to cover your behind.
Even in the DPS loving meta of STO the other classes still have their places.
Unless you are
A: The 1% that can build a tactical that can cover its own behind and still spit out DPS like a tactical.
B: The .001% that you can wipe out fleets of ships before you before they can see you. C: Lucky enough to have an engineer or scientist willing to cover your behind.
Even in the DPS loving meta of STO the other classes still have their places.
Rarely have I ever seen anyone fill the third role. Which is why I chose to fill it myself
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
All I have to say is this. I have seen engineers take ships into the beating heart of a furnace in MU, 5-7 Typhoons and other trash firing away at it, and simply sit there, take it and endure while dishing out fire and proceed to eventually kill them all. SOLO.
There is no tac captain out there that could of pulled that stunt and lived. Period the end.
Tac captains are good at good spike damage, but damage long term, giving it out as fast as you are taking it, sorry engineers will always outlast every other class bar none.
That sounds very elegant and romantic but is pretty far from the truth.
"Hurr durr Engis can tank better than tacs, dead deeps = no deeps bla bla"
The only thing Engineers have a 1-up tanking-wise on over tacs is MW with the trait, which over a long fight will parse significantly less than things like ET, radiant nanite cloud, borg heal, Agent Nerul. There is also RSF which pales in comparison to a doffed RSP. EPSPT and NI came from an age where power management was still an issue. Now it is not.
"There is no tac captain out there that could of pulled that stunt and lived."
What is this, some cheap Engi sales pitch? Take a close look at the specializations, traits, starship traits and several consoles that tacs can pitch now, and rethink what you said.
Engis are flat-out TRIBBLE in space compared to tacs, they have nothing worthwhile to set them apart. If aggro worked well in this game, then they could come with powerful AoE enmity generating powers, along with actually useful hull and shield tanking powers. Or perhaps the ability to summon powerful turrets and space healing platforms. Instead you are, perhaps unknowingly, handicapping your toon by going yellow. I have respect for good engi pilots who can even slightly keep up with the damage of tacs, but it is by no means an optimal way to play the game.
That sounds very elegant and romantic but is pretty far from the truth.
"Hurr durr Engis can tank better than tacs, dead deeps = no deeps bla bla"
The only thing Engineers have a 1-up tanking-wise on over tacs is MW with the trait, which over a long fight will parse significantly less than things like ET, radiant nanite cloud, borg heal, Agent Nerul. There is also RSF which pales in comparison to a doffed RSP. EPSPT and NI came from an age where power management was still an issue. Now it is not.
"There is no tac captain out there that could of pulled that stunt and lived."
What is this, some cheap Engi sales pitch? Take a close look at the specializations, traits, starship traits and several consoles that tacs can pitch now, and rethink what you said.
Engis are flat-out TRIBBLE in space compared to tacs, they have nothing worthwhile to set them apart. If aggro worked well in this game, then they could come with powerful AoE enmity generating powers, along with actually useful hull and shield tanking powers. Or perhaps the ability to summon powerful turrets and space healing platforms. Instead you are, perhaps unknowingly, handicapping your toon by going yellow. I have respect for good engi pilots who can even slightly keep up with the damage of tacs, but it is by no means an optimal way to play the game.
So how hard did you thump your chest on this one. Tac officers are good a spike damage, that's about it. They cannot sustain that damage nor can they take damage all that well and except for a few ships, most tactical ships are glass cannons.
Tac officers can give a hell of a haymaker, but they can't take one for love nor money. Engineers can, plus ya know that energy level that keeps weapons firing at peak damage, tac officers can't many that for TRIBBLE.
Engineers with the right abilities can keep all 4 at 125 and actually sustain it. Sorry pal this whole logic that engineers are garbage, well is just that, garbage. Best sustainable dps in the game is engineer. Bar none. Keep energy up nonstop, keep the ship together and in the fight and plenty enough skill to put out damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Something to think about when I compare Tac Vs engineer is boxing.
Tac officers are like Mike Tyson. Big brutal hard hitters, but they can't sustain that kind of fighting. Even Mike Tyson stated if he couldn't knock out an opponent EARLY and hard, he really had a low chance of doing so. Why Buster Douglas beat Tyson. He simply outlasted Tyosn.
Engineers on the other hand(yes using a movie boxer) are like Rocky Balboa. Hit reasonably well, but they can take a beating no other person can and KEEP swinging. I don't know of a boxer today who is like that but, that's the best analogy I can think of.
This is why people coming over from Tac IMHO have a hard time with engineer. They are expecting the big knock out punch, and Engineers simply don't do that. They soak damage while whittling the other side down, but also have vast stamina. (with the amount of abilities to keep energy high).
Sorry takes a different way of flying to keep an engineer in the fight.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I do the same for players in kerrat. They really do need it. You take away a tac's elite fleet shield and I think they would cry.
I don't play kerrat. Everyone is saying how great/fun that battlezone it is, but when I arrive there are only fed side players, and lagging borg going back and forth.
My 27k DPS Engineer says differently. Engineers can do DPS, it is a longer road to get there, but it is possible. If you hate Engineers so much, delete your's and re roll something else. I have played all three and Engineer fits my playstyle the most. Liked Tac and hated Sci. Why did I hate Sci? I couldn't get it to fit my playstyle. It doesn't mean Sci sucks and I don't go telling people that, it means I suck at Sci. I gave it up and play to my strengths instead.
I tried the Sci Cpt. My self, didn't work out, wasn't my play style neither. Tac, I did alright on, didn't mind it much.
No one denied that Tacs are the DPS dealers. Yes they are. PewPewPew.
But it is a false statement that Engineers are useless. If they are useless to you, ok. Fine.
But others have them as their main character and it is not really polite to make this class bad for other players.
Engineers are in fact the second highest DPS dealers in game, and CAN!!! defeat a Tactical player based on how good the player has learned the game mechanics.
A good Tactical player can shoot the TRIBBLE out of others, and a miserable Tactical player CAN!! be defeated by lower tier ships too.
It is always based on YOUR own understanding of the game.
Why did you choose an Engineer character anyway?
Well pointed out there, couldn't get more clear, than that.
So 2x30 second and 2x60 second team stackable massive damage boosts/DR debuffs count as "spike" now?
I stopped reading at this point, because the rest of your post is just as fantastical as the one I quoted beforehand.
*chest thump*
As is yours. Pot met kettle. And yes it is spike damage since it's every 30 to 60 seconds. Engineer, has abilities to keep energy up ALL THE TIME. Full on 125 to shields, engines, aux, weapons nonstop.
Can a Tac captain pull that off? no. Then it's spike damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
As is yours. Pot met kettle. And yes it is spike damage since it's every 30 to 60 seconds. Engineer, has abilities to keep energy up ALL THE TIME. Full on 125 to shields, engines, aux, weapons nonstop.
Can a Tac captain pull that off? no. Then it's spike damage.
You do know with 3 Damage control Engineers and a Warp Core Engineer maybe toss in a plasmonic leech most classes can keep their power to full.. most the time?
You do know with 3 Damage control Engineers and a Warp Core Engineer maybe toss in a plasmonic leech most classes can keep their power to full.. most the time?
That's 4 active space doff slots that could be used elsewhere. Particularly if you're a tactical officer.
You do know with 3 Damage control Engineers and a Warp Core Engineer maybe toss in a plasmonic leech most classes can keep their power to full.. most the time?
Iconians just said it for me. You are now wasting 3-4 space DOFF slots an engineering captain can do naturally.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
There are 30k+ dps science and engineering captains out there....
Please show me one That is not a Romulan. As I've said I can break the 20k mark but at that point I'm using 2xfaw, apb, and double DEM and not really able to heal myself or others much at all.
I think there ultimate issue of this thread is two differing interpretations of success.
Can you play PVE and succeed fairly well in any class? Yes, in most cases. A lot of premade Elite STF teams don't want to take engineers because most people in the class cannot pull it's own dps weight on team.
there is a fine line between succeeding in normal terms and being very effective in elite terms. Having parsed 100's of STF runs and realizing a large % of pugs do less than 5k dps. I think most people don't have a clear understanding of how to really be in elite damage levels.
If engineer can heal better than anyone, why wouldn't an engineer use his superior healing abilities to make a glass ship more bulky? Ship such as Kumari, for example.
If you're expecting to take an eng captain and go tanking in an escort, of course you're going to be disappointed. You can't expect an eng to out dps a tac in the same ship type, that's just stupid. And you're only going to succeed in delaying your destruction. An eng is actually capable of something I consider far more precious than an escorts all or nothing spike damage; high sustained dps. No, an eng isn't going to vape any half decent PvP in one pass. But what it will do is survive that one pass, and continue to rain down the same damage all match, with the occasional burst from either BO/THY or BFAW/TS. I only recently picked up a fleet Avenger for my eng captain. Haven't really spent any time figuring out the best use for it yet, but I have spent years in my fleet Galaxy. I have never lost a fight against another single players and I've more often than not been able to blow them up. This goes for the high dps boats too. Use your eng in either an eng cruiser, or a slower but tankier escort. You wanna get In an escort and do massive damage? Use a tac captain.
I'll throw in my tuppence, as my mains are respectively Klingon Tac and Eng. I have a Sci as well, but he's never been PVP-fit and I am much less comfortable with that role.
Currently flying a Mat'ha and Qib respectively, I honestly feel that they're just different. The Engineer's power management skills (EPSPT / NI) are genuinely useful flying a beam cruiser, even with OSS, because the Eng can keep high levels of overcapped power almost continuously. The heal abilities allow him to stay in the fight, still FAWing like mad, when the Tac has to run.
OTOH the Tac can do murderous quick kills like nothing else.
Ironically, I used to find the engineer better in PVP - this perhaps reflects on my poor piloting skills and reactions in that I struggle to match the pace of the current PVP meta, so broadsiding and durability achieve better results. Those with better reflexes may have very different results.
Is the Engineer everyone's cup of tea? No. But once you factor in the variant skills and preferences of different players, I don't think that you can dismiss the class out of hand (not wanted for top-end group PVP =/= useless).
An eng is actually capable of something I consider far more precious than an escorts all or nothing spike damage; high sustained dps.
With what? This sounds like yet more metaphorical rubbish.
EPSPT? For the same amount of time a tac will be running APA and FOMM for significantly higher sustained DPS?
Nadion Inversion? When we can achieve the same with Marion, Bounty Hunter's Friend, Spire cores, and general good power management, without needing a 3 minute cooldown?
Or is this "sustained DPS" which is somehow magically higher than a tac's only down to the pittance of extra power gotten from EptX through EPS manifold efficiency?
Stop this fantasy dialogue and speak in real terms please.
With what? This sounds like yet more metaphorical rubbish.
EPSPT? For the same amount of time a tac will be running APA and FOMM for significantly higher sustained DPS?
Nadion Inversion? When we can achieve the same with Marion, Bounty Hunter's Friend, Spire cores, and general good power management, without needing a 3 minute cooldown?
Or is this "sustained DPS" which is somehow magically higher than a tac's only down to the pittance of extra power gotten from EptX through EPS manifold efficiency?
Stop this fantasy dialogue and speak in real terms please.
inb4 "Hurr durr MW best tank power in game".
And while you have to burn god knows how many boffs to do what an engineering captain can do with the right warp core and skills he has currently in the tree.
Any other posturing from the "Tac beats all"crowd this morning?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
To all people the OP insist that he is right. nobody teach him. this thread after page of page of good builds, a lot of good advices, He insist all of us no have argument!!
Thanks to all i learn more about my preferred career: ENGINEER CLASS ( I have 5 toons engies!! in only 1 account )
To all people the OP insist that he is right. nobody teach him. this thread after page of page of good builds, a lot of good advices, He insist all of us no have argument!!
Thanks to all i learn more about my preferred career: ENGINEER CLASS ( I have 5 toons engies!! in only 1 account )
Qapla'
/20 char (2 accounts)
Well I think there are two issues going on here.. both sides are rights in some regards.
Eng should never ever be as high dps as a tac captain... that's not his role.
Tac captain will never have the Eng survivability... that not his role.
The op is right that the eng on a dps power curve will not match a tac captains... what he seems to have blinders on is that done right a eng can be in the effective range for content and pvp with its dps.
Tacs are dps kings.. when not being focused
Eng are the kings of survivability.. a eng cruiser can maintain dps while under sustained attack much longer then a tac captain would. This survivability isn't a big deal in normal content but in elite it can be a deciding factor on being destroyed or having to retreat vs being able to stay in the thick of it trading blows.
The problem with a lot of content isn't not the captains sci,eng, tacs its the way content is done. having timers and forced vape groups do to time limits of over health mobs that must be stopped has forced the games pve meta in to high burst dps buids.
The issue isn't the class its the way elite content is designed.
And while you have to burn god knows how many boffs to do what an engineering captain can do with the right warp core and skills he has currently in the tree.
List them, right now.
The difference is that a tac doesn't need to do what an engineer can do. Survivability does not come from engi innates. Sustained DPS does not come from engi innates.
Read that again 100 times over.
But in this DPS centric game, the opposite is very true.
ummm wrong HE can be used on self or another ST can be used on self or another TSS is just that transfer shield to another extend shield...
as far as engineers.. when you get hit by a drain, pop nadion inversion...
shield issues? rotate shield freq
took a massive hit? Miracle worker, possibly the best captain skill in the game
HE is not a science captain skill. It is a BO skill that almost all classes have on all ships due to its combined hull heal + plasma heal + shield drain heal etc. My sci captain takes a nod at teamwork and has the AOE HE slotted (DO rare officer).
The only things a tac captain has really are alpha strike (which is awesome) and go down fighting where IF they can get their hull low (sometimes tricky to do) they can bring the hurt. If they can't get their hull beat up, all they have that is more dps is alpha. EVERYTHING ELSE can be identical --- the rest of it is ship and officers and gear. There is no question that these 2 skills put tacs on top of dps --- well duh, that is their specialty. APA gives 30 seconds on, 90 second CD of a massive damage bonus. ATM I am not sure if the cooldown starts when it ends or when it is used, but either way, its easily 10% more damage (theoretical long fight where it goes on cooldown and is used again over a long fight... so periods of downtime averaged with uptime) -- its too early to work out the numbers but its obviously very significant. In which case, a better thread title is "dps class rocks in a game where dps is all that matters".
Comments
Into the beating heart of a furnace of Typhoons. Well then if an engineer can outlast normal content then all must be right in the world. :rolleyes:
Hey all I am saying, their survivability, is literally second to none. And can still dish out damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Also behind his redundant shields behind redundant shields behind a reinforced hull behind an even more reinforced hull. Redundancies for redundancies, and then if that doesn't work a good old Miracle Worker (and maybe even Grace Under Fire!).
Also, the EPS manifold trait is really nice when you want to see 125 in all power subsystems, and you're carrying an [AMP] warp core. Just saying.
There is an old saying I like.
The DPS of a dead man is zero.
Unless you are
A: The 1% that can build a tactical that can cover its own behind and still spit out DPS like a tactical.
B: The .001% that you can wipe out fleets of ships before you before they can see you.
C: Lucky enough to have an engineer or scientist willing to cover your behind.
Even in the DPS loving meta of STO the other classes still have their places.
Rarely have I ever seen anyone fill the third role. Which is why I chose to fill it myself
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
That sounds very elegant and romantic but is pretty far from the truth.
"Hurr durr Engis can tank better than tacs, dead deeps = no deeps bla bla"
The only thing Engineers have a 1-up tanking-wise on over tacs is MW with the trait, which over a long fight will parse significantly less than things like ET, radiant nanite cloud, borg heal, Agent Nerul. There is also RSF which pales in comparison to a doffed RSP. EPSPT and NI came from an age where power management was still an issue. Now it is not.
"There is no tac captain out there that could of pulled that stunt and lived."
What is this, some cheap Engi sales pitch? Take a close look at the specializations, traits, starship traits and several consoles that tacs can pitch now, and rethink what you said.
Engis are flat-out TRIBBLE in space compared to tacs, they have nothing worthwhile to set them apart. If aggro worked well in this game, then they could come with powerful AoE enmity generating powers, along with actually useful hull and shield tanking powers. Or perhaps the ability to summon powerful turrets and space healing platforms. Instead you are, perhaps unknowingly, handicapping your toon by going yellow. I have respect for good engi pilots who can even slightly keep up with the damage of tacs, but it is by no means an optimal way to play the game.
So how hard did you thump your chest on this one. Tac officers are good a spike damage, that's about it. They cannot sustain that damage nor can they take damage all that well and except for a few ships, most tactical ships are glass cannons.
Tac officers can give a hell of a haymaker, but they can't take one for love nor money. Engineers can, plus ya know that energy level that keeps weapons firing at peak damage, tac officers can't many that for TRIBBLE.
Engineers with the right abilities can keep all 4 at 125 and actually sustain it. Sorry pal this whole logic that engineers are garbage, well is just that, garbage. Best sustainable dps in the game is engineer. Bar none. Keep energy up nonstop, keep the ship together and in the fight and plenty enough skill to put out damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I do the same for players in kerrat. They really do need it. You take away a tac's elite fleet shield and I think they would cry.
Tac officers are like Mike Tyson. Big brutal hard hitters, but they can't sustain that kind of fighting. Even Mike Tyson stated if he couldn't knock out an opponent EARLY and hard, he really had a low chance of doing so. Why Buster Douglas beat Tyson. He simply outlasted Tyosn.
Engineers on the other hand(yes using a movie boxer) are like Rocky Balboa. Hit reasonably well, but they can take a beating no other person can and KEEP swinging. I don't know of a boxer today who is like that but, that's the best analogy I can think of.
This is why people coming over from Tac IMHO have a hard time with engineer. They are expecting the big knock out punch, and Engineers simply don't do that. They soak damage while whittling the other side down, but also have vast stamina. (with the amount of abilities to keep energy high).
Sorry takes a different way of flying to keep an engineer in the fight.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I don't play kerrat. Everyone is saying how great/fun that battlezone it is, but when I arrive there are only fed side players, and lagging borg going back and forth.
So 2x30 second and 2x60 second team stackable massive damage boosts/DR debuffs count as "spike" now?
I stopped reading at this point, because the rest of your post is just as fantastical as the one I quoted beforehand.
*chest thump*
I tried the Sci Cpt. My self, didn't work out, wasn't my play style neither. Tac, I did alright on, didn't mind it much.
Well pointed out there, couldn't get more clear, than that.
And I thought I was the only one doing that! Hahaha, glad I'm not the only one.
As is yours. Pot met kettle. And yes it is spike damage since it's every 30 to 60 seconds. Engineer, has abilities to keep energy up ALL THE TIME. Full on 125 to shields, engines, aux, weapons nonstop.
Can a Tac captain pull that off? no. Then it's spike damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
You do know with 3 Damage control Engineers and a Warp Core Engineer maybe toss in a plasmonic leech most classes can keep their power to full.. most the time?
That's 4 active space doff slots that could be used elsewhere. Particularly if you're a tactical officer.
Iconians just said it for me. You are now wasting 3-4 space DOFF slots an engineering captain can do naturally.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Please show me one That is not a Romulan. As I've said I can break the 20k mark but at that point I'm using 2xfaw, apb, and double DEM and not really able to heal myself or others much at all.
I think there ultimate issue of this thread is two differing interpretations of success.
Can you play PVE and succeed fairly well in any class? Yes, in most cases. A lot of premade Elite STF teams don't want to take engineers because most people in the class cannot pull it's own dps weight on team.
there is a fine line between succeeding in normal terms and being very effective in elite terms. Having parsed 100's of STF runs and realizing a large % of pugs do less than 5k dps. I think most people don't have a clear understanding of how to really be in elite damage levels.
ummm wrong HE can be used on self or another ST can be used on self or another TSS is just that transfer shield to another extend shield...
as far as engineers.. when you get hit by a drain, pop nadion inversion...
shield issues? rotate shield freq
took a massive hit? Miracle worker, possibly the best captain skill in the game
If you're expecting to take an eng captain and go tanking in an escort, of course you're going to be disappointed. You can't expect an eng to out dps a tac in the same ship type, that's just stupid. And you're only going to succeed in delaying your destruction. An eng is actually capable of something I consider far more precious than an escorts all or nothing spike damage; high sustained dps. No, an eng isn't going to vape any half decent PvP in one pass. But what it will do is survive that one pass, and continue to rain down the same damage all match, with the occasional burst from either BO/THY or BFAW/TS. I only recently picked up a fleet Avenger for my eng captain. Haven't really spent any time figuring out the best use for it yet, but I have spent years in my fleet Galaxy. I have never lost a fight against another single players and I've more often than not been able to blow them up. This goes for the high dps boats too. Use your eng in either an eng cruiser, or a slower but tankier escort. You wanna get In an escort and do massive damage? Use a tac captain.
Currently flying a Mat'ha and Qib respectively, I honestly feel that they're just different. The Engineer's power management skills (EPSPT / NI) are genuinely useful flying a beam cruiser, even with OSS, because the Eng can keep high levels of overcapped power almost continuously. The heal abilities allow him to stay in the fight, still FAWing like mad, when the Tac has to run.
OTOH the Tac can do murderous quick kills like nothing else.
Ironically, I used to find the engineer better in PVP - this perhaps reflects on my poor piloting skills and reactions in that I struggle to match the pace of the current PVP meta, so broadsiding and durability achieve better results. Those with better reflexes may have very different results.
Is the Engineer everyone's cup of tea? No. But once you factor in the variant skills and preferences of different players, I don't think that you can dismiss the class out of hand (not wanted for top-end group PVP =/= useless).
With what? This sounds like yet more metaphorical rubbish.
EPSPT? For the same amount of time a tac will be running APA and FOMM for significantly higher sustained DPS?
Nadion Inversion? When we can achieve the same with Marion, Bounty Hunter's Friend, Spire cores, and general good power management, without needing a 3 minute cooldown?
Or is this "sustained DPS" which is somehow magically higher than a tac's only down to the pittance of extra power gotten from EptX through EPS manifold efficiency?
Stop this fantasy dialogue and speak in real terms please.
inb4 "Hurr durr MW best tank power in game".
And while you have to burn god knows how many boffs to do what an engineering captain can do with the right warp core and skills he has currently in the tree.
Any other posturing from the "Tac beats all"crowd this morning?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
To all people the OP insist that he is right. nobody teach him. this thread after page of page of good builds, a lot of good advices, He insist all of us no have argument!!
Thanks to all i learn more about my preferred career: ENGINEER CLASS ( I have 5 toons engies!! in only 1 account )
Qapla'
/20 char (2 accounts)
Well I think there are two issues going on here.. both sides are rights in some regards.
Eng should never ever be as high dps as a tac captain... that's not his role.
Tac captain will never have the Eng survivability... that not his role.
The op is right that the eng on a dps power curve will not match a tac captains... what he seems to have blinders on is that done right a eng can be in the effective range for content and pvp with its dps.
Tacs are dps kings.. when not being focused
Eng are the kings of survivability.. a eng cruiser can maintain dps while under sustained attack much longer then a tac captain would. This survivability isn't a big deal in normal content but in elite it can be a deciding factor on being destroyed or having to retreat vs being able to stay in the thick of it trading blows.
The problem with a lot of content isn't not the captains sci,eng, tacs its the way content is done. having timers and forced vape groups do to time limits of over health mobs that must be stopped has forced the games pve meta in to high burst dps buids.
The issue isn't the class its the way elite content is designed.
List them, right now.
The difference is that a tac doesn't need to do what an engineer can do.
Survivability does not come from engi innates.
Sustained DPS does not come from engi innates.
Read that again 100 times over.
But in this DPS centric game, the opposite is very true.
HE is not a science captain skill. It is a BO skill that almost all classes have on all ships due to its combined hull heal + plasma heal + shield drain heal etc. My sci captain takes a nod at teamwork and has the AOE HE slotted (DO rare officer).
The only things a tac captain has really are alpha strike (which is awesome) and go down fighting where IF they can get their hull low (sometimes tricky to do) they can bring the hurt. If they can't get their hull beat up, all they have that is more dps is alpha. EVERYTHING ELSE can be identical --- the rest of it is ship and officers and gear. There is no question that these 2 skills put tacs on top of dps --- well duh, that is their specialty. APA gives 30 seconds on, 90 second CD of a massive damage bonus. ATM I am not sure if the cooldown starts when it ends or when it is used, but either way, its easily 10% more damage (theoretical long fight where it goes on cooldown and is used again over a long fight... so periods of downtime averaged with uptime) -- its too early to work out the numbers but its obviously very significant. In which case, a better thread title is "dps class rocks in a game where dps is all that matters".