How did this thread come from "engineers are useless" to "engineers are worst than tacs"
You obviously weren't in enough of the old "Cruisers are useless" threads... You can't have one of these threads without it becoming an eng vs tac or cruiser vs escort thing, it's just not possible in these forums.
....and this is why I never create Youtube videos. (For some reason it auto-converted the video back down to 360p, it's the fuzziest thing I've ever seen. At least the captions are big enough)
Combatlog screenshots of myself and my opponent, who wishes to stay anonymous.
My opponent frequently visits Ker'rat and has more experience flying his ship and build. While my performance as a tac was lackluster (due to a lack of practice and equipment), all I can say is, at least I stepped up to the plate.
Engineer cant win against tac in 1vs1 pvp, period.
There you go. Engineer can win against tac. Invalid argument, case dismissed. Next!
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
i consider myself a pretty good engineer captain. and compared to a fleetmate who runs tactical, i dont come close in damage. then again, i dont sacrifice everything for that last .01% damage either, i tended to play for fun not for numbers. that said an excellent tactical will do unbelievable amount of damage especially in PVE, but will die super easy.
i remember when the voth were released, and people were doing breach elite in full tactical mode. people kept crying nerf on the bullwarks cause "it kills me to fast to do anything" is what i believe they said. granted, they were a bit OP with their gravity well MK15, but just being an engineer in an escort meant i could tank the gravity well and kill the bullwark effectively. miracle worker has only gotten better over the years in that regard.
if anything i wish engineer captains themselves got something like attracting fire to make sure i keep agro from my friends.
with the new advanced/elite difficulty i can see engineers being more useful, especially ones like me that run escort/engineer.
....and this is why I never create Youtube videos. (For some reason it auto-converted the video back down to 360p, it's the fuzziest thing I've ever seen. At least the captions are big enough)
Combatlog screenshots of myself and my opponent, who wishes to stay anonymous.
My opponent frequently visits Ker'rat and has more experience flying his ship and build. While my performance as a tac was lackluster (due to a lack of practice and equipment), all I can say is, at least I stepped up to the plate.
There you go. Engineer can win against tac. Invalid argument, case dismissed. Next!
ROFLMAO!!!!
You were the one flying the tac, not to mention a cruiser with beam arrays!!! I could just as easily fly my eng on an escort with beams and lose to a tac in an escort with DHC to prove MY POINT ROFLMAO!!! What a joke you are!
A video was about someone making one with him as an engineer that wins against an experienced normal lvl tac (not a lvl 10 tac n00b ). I guess you can find a tac flying a cruiser with nothing but mark V beams LOL, but that is just hilarious. I've also beaten a good share of tac pilots, but those had either crappy setups or didn't manage keyboard shortcuts very well (they were actually using their mouse).
You were the one flying the tac, not to mention a cruiser with beam arrays!!! I could just as easily fly my eng on an escort with beams and lose to a tac in an escort with DHC to prove MY POINT ROFLMAO!!! What a joke you are!
A video was about someone making one with him as an engineer that wins against an experienced normal lvl tac (not a lvl 10 tac n00b ). I guess you can find a tac flying a cruiser with nothing but mark V beams LOL, but that is just hilarious. I've also beaten a good share of tac pilots, but those had either crappy setups or didn't manage keyboard shortcuts very well (they were actually using their mouse).
Oh man...you reall y made my day. HAHaha
lol, calling someone else a joke when you're clearly something of a ****ing moron is rather cute, going to file that one away for later. Tell you what. I fly as Tac in a T-5U Avenger Battle Cruiser, I have a friend who flies a non Aux2Batt Excelsior who routinely pummels me into dust. You wanna watch one of our matches sometime?
And star, you're welcome to come along to and record the match so he can't lie and claim something else happened.
You made the claim Engineer class - useless, people quite rightly call you out for it.
You then backpedalled to only in PvP. People still correctly call you for it.
You then backpedalled to 1 vs 1 PvP. People still correctly call you for it.
You then backpedalled to hiding behind some other player after someone in a frakking Galaxy got bored of your endless words. I call you out for the hiding part.
You can keep digging your hole deeper for as long as you like.
To which we can now add keeping your head stuck up your backside going "la la la not listening" when someone gets so bored of your trolling as to actually humour your delusions of grandeur and show Tacs can lose to Engineers.
You were the one flying the tac, not to mention a cruiser with beam arrays!!! I could just as easily fly my eng on an escort with beams and lose to a tac in an escort with DHC to prove MY POINT ROFLMAO!!! What a joke you are!
A video was about someone making one with him as an engineer that wins against an experienced normal lvl tac (not a lvl 10 tac n00b ). I guess you can find a tac flying a cruiser with nothing but mark V beams LOL, but that is just hilarious. I've also beaten a good share of tac pilots, but those had either crappy setups or didn't manage keyboard shortcuts very well (they were actually using their mouse).
Oh man...you reall y made my day. HAHaha
Hey buddy. You asked me to post a video of an endgame tac being beaten by an endgame engi. You got what you asked for! LOL
Your grand claim that "engis never win against tacs" has been proven wrong. Perhaps next time you should create a better and less fallible argument next time around. People will call you out on a faulty argument.
Next!
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
On ground it tanks hard and can hold out alone in most battle zones...
Tbh and i hate! to say it you obviously do not have it set up correctly... if your skills, traits etc etc are correct you should be able to hold your own in all areas...
NOW! Sci - dont get me started... Ground they are good space they are paper (but hey maybe im not set up correctly)
nope, you aren't set up all that well I could last a while in my sci ships BEFORE I got my Temporal Science Vessel
We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
We are the Borg. Existence as you know it is over. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
Hey buddy. You asked me to post a video of an endgame tac being beaten by an endgame engi. You got what you asked for! LOL
Your grand claim that "engis never win against tacs" has been proven wrong. Perhaps next time you should create a better and less fallible argument next time around. People will call you out on a faulty argument.
Next!
LOL champ, don't get so nervous for no reason.You made a really good high res video of a tac in a cruiser losing to an eng in a cruiser with most high end gear excluded whilst only the regular stuff is being used. I assume if that's how you suppose the real pvp looks like then yeah, an eng can beat a tac. Deliberately losing from someone to make your point is just pathetic..more so when it is too obvious, which shows the lack of intelligence.
If you took a jembug or a defiant with dhc's and somehow forgot to use tt and turned your weaker shield side to the opponent then it would make it all a lot more plausible. This way it is ridiculously obvious that you lost on purpose. Furthermore, who would promise a video of himself losing to another guy in the future if he wasn't sure of it? And if he was certain of it then it is only logical to conclude that he planed on to lose in the first place..Common..Mr. Bean is more serious than you..roflmao!
Guys, I really don't think anything will influence him at all.
It doesn't matter how much proof you show him, even when he requests it, he will find fault with it. He needs just one person to partially agree with him to nullify the rest.
Looking over his post history, I found that he had started a similar thread back in May 2013 (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=685781). He started out much as he did here, started out with one topic and changed it mid-stream. He also made the same allegations there as he did here, and he encountered the same counter-points.
It seems clear to me that he couldn't get an Engineer to work like he wanted, so they must suck and anyone who doesn't share his viewpoint is either lying or delusional. To me he is trolling.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Hey buddy. You asked me to post a video of an endgame tac being beaten by an endgame engi. You got what you asked for! LOL
Your grand claim that "engis never win against tacs" has been proven wrong. Perhaps next time you should create a better and less fallible argument next time around. People will call you out on a faulty argument.
Well in fairness... fomm blows. Tac team means its a 5s and at most 10s skill before its cleared by anyone remotely not stupid. Its good for a 3-5s burst IF your smart about it and that is it.
Alpha is great yes.
Nuke is fantastic yes.
However neither Alpha nor Nuke or Fomm or Sensor scan or go down or anything else they have is the issue.
The issue is E fleet Shields... Rep bonuses... stacking shield resists... stacking defense buffs. Consoles that regen shields and hull for you... and about 20 other items and passives that make engi pointless.
Engi had a role at one time... and in my engi scort I killed tons of tacs... at one point I was even part of a fairly feared 5 man engi scort team. lol
The issue is all the creep that make it impossible to kill anyone with Nadion and or EPS transfer anymore... you can't simply load a APO 3 and a rapid fire and expect to even glance hull never mind expose it.
Everyone is to resilient... you can tank just as well with a tac or a sci... that is the real issue.
That reply does nothing to support your claims. And so you know, Virusdancer is just as active in the forums, so by your account that would make his replies just as informed; yet you discount them as they do not share your same vision.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
That reply does nothing to support your claims. And so you know, Virusdancer is just as active in the forums, so by your account that would make his replies just as informed; yet you discount them as they do not share your same vision.
The issue is E fleet Shields... Rep bonuses... stacking shield resists... stacking defense buffs. Consoles that regen shields and hull for you... and about 20 other items and passivesthat make engi pointless.
The issue is all the creep that make it impossible to kill anyone with Nadion and or EPS transfer anymore... you can't simply load a APO 3 and a rapid fire and expect to even glance hull never mind expose it.
I don't post a lot, so I probably don't have a lot of cred, but I just want to toss my 2 cents into this. Pvp is horribly broken anyway. As with most games that have a "microtransaction" model, it will almost always be won by the person with the deepest pockets, making class irrelevant.
Taking the recent mirror event as an example, and I ran almost exclusively pugs. My tactical capt. in a chell gret, with a good team, was able to decimate mirror ships. With a bad group, (nobody closing rifts) and getting 20+ enemies in a small amount of space, my tac would have to make attack runs. Go in, kill a few, and gtfo, to heal up, or get my butt blown up.
My eng on the other hand flies the tac odyssey. Yes, the tac odyssey has nowhere near the alpha damage of an escort running 3 DHC's and a grav torp on the front and 4 turrets on the rear. The biggest difference, when things went absolutely sideways, and there was a swarm of 20+, I was able to drive my big a*% oddy right through the pack of em, staying alive, tanking like no other class can, blowing up enemies, and generally doing S*%t that should make any glass cannon tac capt jealous.
In short, if all you want is 1v1 pvp, open your wallet and open it wide. Otherwise, learn your classes, and use the best class for YOUR play style.
I don't post a lot, so I probably don't have a lot of cred, but I just want to toss my 2 cents into this. Pvp is horribly broken anyway. As with most games that have a "microtransaction" model, it will almost always be won by the person with the deepest pockets, making class irrelevant.
Taking the recent mirror event as an example, and I ran almost exclusively pugs. My tactical capt. in a chell gret, with a good team, was able to decimate mirror ships. With a bad group, (nobody closing rifts) and getting 20+ enemies in a small amount of space, my tac would have to make attack runs. Go in, kill a few, and gtfo, to heal up, or get my butt blown up.
My eng on the other hand flies the tac odyssey. Yes, the tac odyssey has nowhere near the alpha damage of an escort running 3 DHC's and a grav torp on the front and 4 turrets on the rear. The biggest difference, when things went absolutely sideways, and there was a swarm of 20+, I was able to drive my big a*% oddy right through the pack of em, staying alive, tanking like no other class can, blowing up enemies, and generally doing S*%t that should make any glass cannon tac capt jealous.
In short, if all you want is 1v1 pvp, open your wallet and open it wide. Otherwise, learn your classes, and use the best class for YOUR play style.
did that same thing in the mirror event with my eng ODY dealing damage is all well and good but even th ebest tacs can get overwhelmed by sheer numbers in which an Engineer shines bright it can take all the massive ago in the world and shrug it off while poping mooks and dwindling the numbers. it is also a really satisfying feeling of shrugging off what are supposed to be one hit kill shots from bosses as an eng (looks at donatra's scimitar) to the OP yes tacs are extremely powerful and the kings and queens of DPS however they are fragile and will not last long in a swarm or a prolonged firefights science are not known for the heals the deal with crowd control and manipulating the battlefield int their favor. What ENG does and does well is take the heat from people and lets the other classes do their thing while they shrug off the hits and give a steady stream of DPS not as much as a tac but it adds up. that was my 2 cents
Yes, it does, by reinforcing what I said about you only paying attention to viewpoints that seem to support yours.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
I would say that in space, Tac captains have the edge while on the ground Eng captains can dominate. Engineers get mines, turrets, shields, generators, buffs and debuffs, etc. In space, Attack Pattern Alpha is an "I win" button when paired with the right BOFF and equipment sets.
It can't heal, that's done by the science class, it can't deal dps as it is done by the tactical class.
Of what good is an eng? It can miracle worker himself? It is ridiculous..It can only tank, and even that not well enough because the goal is to destroy the opponent and only being passive without dealing a sufficient amount of DPS you are basically useless and just postponing your demise..
Will the Cryptic team finally give the engineer class something worthy of playing them? A special space skill that would give 30-40% extra damage, or any significant damage boost, such as alpha strike.
Why not completely delete the class since its useful as a fifth wheel on a car.
your a Fed right human perhaps in a cruiser ? if so that's why..on th ground my human Eng is a powerhouse and as survivable as my science toon is
In space ....after DR he isn't worth upgrading or even flying
Make a romulan for space combat you will do double the dps with a romulan enginer over a human engineer
This X10 if your making new characters and not using a 3 year old character with all the goodies which are a lot harder and expensive to get now
Cryptic really shot the Feds in the Face with DR...most people just don't realize it yet and here in the forums most have very old veteran characters and dont realize how powerful all the goodies they got over the years are
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
PEBDAC.
Problem Exists Between Desk And Chair.
You obviously weren't in enough of the old "Cruisers are useless" threads... You can't have one of these threads without it becoming an eng vs tac or cruiser vs escort thing, it's just not possible in these forums.
lol, It's what we used to call a PL-1 Failure back in my military days. (PL-1 is the tech. term in some manuals for 'Pilot)
No it's not, he said so :P
Just like mine that scores higher in dps parsers than my tac/scort is useless at doing dps because he said so :P
Some people would conclude that you were running A2B and therefore had no skill.
I never realized how much skill was needed to fly an escort, just sit there and shoot. /s
Why not both?
There isn't any skill to a PvE escort, as for my cruiser build, see for yourself: http://www.kaysvaultofstuff.com/the-tribble.html no aux2batt there, I don't like it, it feels bad.
RECAP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqVATJkEGmY
Combatlog screenshots of myself and my opponent, who wishes to stay anonymous.
My opponent frequently visits Ker'rat and has more experience flying his ship and build. While my performance as a tac was lackluster (due to a lack of practice and equipment), all I can say is, at least I stepped up to the plate.
There you go. Engineer can win against tac. Invalid argument, case dismissed. Next!
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Now: Nobody is geared out enough yet to know what things will look like at deep endgame.
Fleet Admiral Space Orphidian Possiblities Wizard
i remember when the voth were released, and people were doing breach elite in full tactical mode. people kept crying nerf on the bullwarks cause "it kills me to fast to do anything" is what i believe they said. granted, they were a bit OP with their gravity well MK15, but just being an engineer in an escort meant i could tank the gravity well and kill the bullwark effectively. miracle worker has only gotten better over the years in that regard.
if anything i wish engineer captains themselves got something like attracting fire to make sure i keep agro from my friends.
with the new advanced/elite difficulty i can see engineers being more useful, especially ones like me that run escort/engineer.
ROFLMAO!!!!
You were the one flying the tac, not to mention a cruiser with beam arrays!!! I could just as easily fly my eng on an escort with beams and lose to a tac in an escort with DHC to prove MY POINT ROFLMAO!!! What a joke you are!
A video was about someone making one with him as an engineer that wins against an experienced normal lvl tac (not a lvl 10 tac n00b
Oh man...you reall y made my day. HAHaha
lol, calling someone else a joke when you're clearly something of a ****ing moron is rather cute, going to file that one away for later. Tell you what. I fly as Tac in a T-5U Avenger Battle Cruiser, I have a friend who flies a non Aux2Batt Excelsior who routinely pummels me into dust. You wanna watch one of our matches sometime?
And star, you're welcome to come along to and record the match so he can't lie and claim something else happened.
To which we can now add keeping your head stuck up your backside going "la la la not listening" when someone gets so bored of your trolling as to actually humour your delusions of grandeur and show Tacs can lose to Engineers.
And, let us not forget -
OP - you're a moron. Now FRO.
Hey buddy. You asked me to post a video of an endgame tac being beaten by an endgame engi. You got what you asked for! LOL
Your grand claim that "engis never win against tacs" has been proven wrong. Perhaps next time you should create a better and less fallible argument next time around. People will call you out on a faulty argument.
Next!
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
nope, you aren't set up all that well I could last a while in my sci ships BEFORE I got my Temporal Science Vessel
XD Thank you made my day
LOL champ, don't get so nervous for no reason.You made a really good high res video of a tac in a cruiser losing to an eng in a cruiser with most high end gear excluded whilst only the regular stuff is being used. I assume if that's how you suppose the real pvp looks like then yeah, an eng can beat a tac. Deliberately losing from someone to make your point is just pathetic..more so when it is too obvious, which shows the lack of intelligence.
If you took a jembug or a defiant with dhc's and somehow forgot to use tt and turned your weaker shield side to the opponent then it would make it all a lot more plausible. This way it is ridiculously obvious that you lost on purpose. Furthermore, who would promise a video of himself losing to another guy in the future if he wasn't sure of it? And if he was certain of it then it is only logical to conclude that he planed on to lose in the first place..Common..Mr. Bean is more serious than you..roflmao!
It doesn't matter how much proof you show him, even when he requests it, he will find fault with it. He needs just one person to partially agree with him to nullify the rest.
Looking over his post history, I found that he had started a similar thread back in May 2013 (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=685781). He started out much as he did here, started out with one topic and changed it mid-stream. He also made the same allegations there as he did here, and he encountered the same counter-points.
It seems clear to me that he couldn't get an Engineer to work like he wanted, so they must suck and anyone who doesn't share his viewpoint is either lying or delusional. To me he is trolling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InaRIYFPMiY
Here is my reply on the video you made.
That covers about it. Cheers!
Taking the recent mirror event as an example, and I ran almost exclusively pugs. My tactical capt. in a chell gret, with a good team, was able to decimate mirror ships. With a bad group, (nobody closing rifts) and getting 20+ enemies in a small amount of space, my tac would have to make attack runs. Go in, kill a few, and gtfo, to heal up, or get my butt blown up.
My eng on the other hand flies the tac odyssey. Yes, the tac odyssey has nowhere near the alpha damage of an escort running 3 DHC's and a grav torp on the front and 4 turrets on the rear. The biggest difference, when things went absolutely sideways, and there was a swarm of 20+, I was able to drive my big a*% oddy right through the pack of em, staying alive, tanking like no other class can, blowing up enemies, and generally doing S*%t that should make any glass cannon tac capt jealous.
In short, if all you want is 1v1 pvp, open your wallet and open it wide. Otherwise, learn your classes, and use the best class for YOUR play style.
There is a difference between pointless and "Will always lose to a tac".
did that same thing in the mirror event with my eng ODY dealing damage is all well and good but even th ebest tacs can get overwhelmed by sheer numbers in which an Engineer shines bright it can take all the massive ago in the world and shrug it off while poping mooks and dwindling the numbers. it is also a really satisfying feeling of shrugging off what are supposed to be one hit kill shots from bosses as an eng (looks at donatra's scimitar) to the OP yes tacs are extremely powerful and the kings and queens of DPS however they are fragile and will not last long in a swarm or a prolonged firefights science are not known for the heals the deal with crowd control and manipulating the battlefield int their favor. What ENG does and does well is take the heat from people and lets the other classes do their thing while they shrug off the hits and give a steady stream of DPS not as much as a tac but it adds up. that was my 2 cents
Yes, it does, by reinforcing what I said about you only paying attention to viewpoints that seem to support yours.
Yeah, flying cookie cutter, boring builds.
your a Fed right human perhaps in a cruiser ? if so that's why..on th ground my human Eng is a powerhouse and as survivable as my science toon is
In space ....after DR he isn't worth upgrading or even flying
Make a romulan for space combat you will do double the dps with a romulan enginer over a human engineer
This X10 if your making new characters and not using a 3 year old character with all the goodies which are a lot harder and expensive to get now
Cryptic really shot the Feds in the Face with DR...most people just don't realize it yet and here in the forums most have very old veteran characters and dont realize how powerful all the goodies they got over the years are
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse