your a Fed right human perhaps in a cruiser ? if so that's why..on th ground my human Eng is a powerhouse and as survivable as my science toon is
In space ....after DR he isn't worth upgrading or even flying
Make a romulan for space combat you will do double the dps with a romulan enginer over a human engineer
This X10 if your making new characters and not using a 3 year old character with all the goodies which are a lot harder and expensive to get now
Cryptic really shot the Feds in the Face with DR...most people just don't realize it yet and here in the forums most have very old veteran characters and dont realize how powerful all the goodies they got over the years are
On the ground an eng is the best. I adore turrets and drones, orbital strike especially. Healing shields as well. In the space, eh..leaves much to be desired..
DBB is in the first slot and sometimes I use neutronium instead of RCS. Omega torp is a recent addition, otherwise I use another andorian DHC. Sometimes I use subspace jump console, etc. Perhaps a breen torp in the aft just when I pass the guy. There are combinations. 2 purple AP doffs and 3 blue wce doffs. Far from perfect, but I play elite space all the time and never die. Problem is, in PVP I can hardly scratch enemies shields (if they are good), although I can survive GW, placate, cloak cr@p tricks and yes even danubes with TB. Not a glass ship, but unable to inflict serious damage..
My char is 1,5 years old and I don't plan on creating a new one, at least not putting an effort in leveling it..
Eng in space, yes, is a junk..I don't realize why would people be against strengthening engies a bit, making them more relevant to the game. If they don't play it, why would they care anyway and if they do play it, why wouldn't they care?
Class balance was a major issue two years ago, but a couple really subtle changes have made each of the classes
quite bit more balanced now. These changes were mainly through the trait revamp (Eng and Sci got some kickass traits) and duty officers.
If you feel like a character is useless, reach out to a community to improve it. Your build is probably lacking.
If you want DPS play a Tac, if you want t be survivable play an Eng, if you want to be useful in other ways and do fancy space magic play a Sci.
Also keep in mind that we shouldn't conflate Tac/Eng/Sci with Escort/Cruiser/Sciship. There really is almost nothing holding you to the same ship as your captain class. (I say almost because the exception is that certain Science captain powers use Aux power or trigger of science boffs, so they favour science ships)
Cryptic really shot the Feds in the Face with DR...most people just don't realize it yet and here in the forums most have very old veteran characters and dont realize how powerful all the goodies they got over the years are
Powerful goodies, sure if you say so. if that's the case explain to me how my 3 week old alien fed engineer can tank just about anything you can throw at her WHILE doing 30K+?
also as for the OP, I don't pvp often, but think twice before challenging a build like mine, you will die over and over again for my amusement regardless of your career or ship.
as for the build you posted.
Your an engineer trying to gear and play like a tac officer. STOP it your not a tac officer
from your weapon selection to your engine selection and the fact your flying a 6 weapon ship alone, you are doing it wrong. Sorry but I'm being honest. Do yourself a favor switch to polaron with flow cap, and laugh as the tac escort your trying to kill cant move cause his power levels are at 1 if hes lucky. Your choice of phaser is obvious for the susbsytem shutdown, but it isn't reliable enough to work when you actually need it. polaron however specc'ed properly on your consoles and skill build can destroy a ships ability to create power very fast and for long periods of time. my polarons drop power by 57.8 per proc per system. how long you think they can keep their dps high when that happens?
I wont spell my build out for you it took some serious wasted upgrades and numerous doff changes and boff changes to get my ships to where they are. my weakest ship can full stop in the middle of an elite vaadwaur and take the hits and laugh (and no I don't fly escorts, why would I when I can make a cruiser fly just as well). so in your original posting stating that an engineer can kinda tank is massively inaccurate. btw the weakest ship I own is a hazari destroyer, not a weak ship by any means but quite a step down from a cruiser.
as far as your skill build. perhaps you should post that cause honestly I'm wondering if you stripped out survivability trying to build massive dps. like its been said before engineer isn't often going to see over 50K dps. Can I do it sure can I sustain it, no, my max sustained SOLO patrol dps is 43K, I don't count group queues for sustained dps cause everyone elses skills and debuffs are inlfuicing your abilities.
honeslty without knowing your skill build itself, the best advice I can give is plan your BOFF abilities before selecting the ship. Then once you have a plan for that, find a ship that will allow it or get you as close as possible. then do the tweaking of said skills with your doffs. Console slots are equally important. cruisers are typically heavy on eng consoles but there are a few out there that have a seriously awesome 4 eng 3 sci 4 tac set up.. Those cruisers are capable of ridiculous feats of tanking and dps, AT THE SAME TIME.
that last part is where the engineer shines. no other class can have the level of dps AND tanking ability that an engineer can. basing your view off the fact that a tac escort will outdps an eng escort (which isn't always true btw) is flawed at its core. in most of those situations yes a tac can out dps you, but can that tac outdps you and kill you with your ability to survive being at least 2x theres. they need to outdps you by a large margin in order to do so.
IMO engineer is THE strongest space and ground career. they are a powerhouse all around traited specialized and boff'ed and doff'ed correctly for your ship is the key. if you cant do that you will never have fun with that engineer.
Fine, by that logic I can accuse you of something you haven't done and you have to prove you didn't. Doesn't work that way of course - The person making the claim has to prove it, and you haven't.
You made the claim Engineer class - useless, people quite rightly call you out for it.
You then backpedalled to only in PvP. People still correctly call you for it.
You then backpedalled to 1 vs 1 PvP. People still correctly call you for it.
You then backpedalled to hiding behind some other player after someone in a frakking Galaxy got bored of your endless words. I call you out for the hiding part.
You can keep digging your hole deeper for as long as you like.
cbrjwrr's hit the nail right on the head. He backpedalled to "show me proof" that Engis can't beat tacs.
I show proof that Engis can beat Tacs. He backpedalled to excuses.
I don't think anything will convince this guy otherwise. He seems intent on insisting that engis are completely useless, no matter what facts are brought before him, and attempting to insult or distract those who prove him wrong. Layer upon layer of fallacies is what this guy depends upon to "prove" himself right.
His beliefs are just that, beliefs. And there's no reason why any of us should expend valuable time in trying to persuade this guy otherwise. He's not here asking for advice or to legitimately offer a suggestion to the Devs (if he were, I'd respect that). He's here to inflate his ego and argue, and there's no further point in entertaining such people.
So I close with this: dam999's belief is that engis are useless. Belief is not truth. The truth is that engis are very useful, just not in the role he believes they should fill (tac). The truth is that Engis are the best power managers in the game due to their captain abilities, which also means they are effective teamhealers, pressure damage dealers, and more.
-stardestroyer001
Former PvP Boot Camp Coach (Engi, teamhealer)
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I just have one thing to say towards this. Regarding that the purpose of an engineer is to stay alive, I have to say that I do not manage to do this very well. HOWEVER, this is not due to the engi class being "useless/pointless" (as the OP stated), but down to me playing as I would like to - casually. This is not me agreeing with the OP, as engies do have the capacity to tank - some doing it much better than others. This doesn't make ALL engineers automatically invalid, because I know I am not the best.
I will however add my two cents to this post and say engies can take care of a tac. A while back, before LoR was on the servers, I got an Excelsior and buffed it to fleet level. Me and a fleetmate challenged each other to PvP, he was a tac in a F-Armitage. Now, although I failed to tank all of his hits I still tanked him long enough to get one over before being blasted to smithereens the following volley. This kept happening for the remainder of the match (granted he wasn't the best at it either, but I still respected his opinion when it came to aspects of the game). It was NOT about who was the best, we did it because I wanted to try my hand in an Excelsior - which worked and was my favourite ship until something else came along.
--NOTE FOR THE OP--
Don't you DARE try to dismiss my opinion as invalid on the basis that I disagree with yours, because I am quite sure that many other posters on this thread have the same/a similar opinion as myself. Happy hunting
Powerful goodies, sure if you say so. if that's the case explain to me how my 3 week old alien fed engineer can tank just about anything you can throw at her WHILE doing 30K+?
also as for the OP, I don't pvp often, but think twice before challenging a build like mine, you will die over and over again for my amusement regardless of your career or ship.
as for the build you posted.
Your an engineer trying to gear and play like a tac officer. STOP it your not a tac officer
from your weapon selection to your engine selection and the fact your flying a 6 weapon ship alone, you are doing it wrong. Sorry but I'm being honest. Do yourself a favor switch to polaron with flow cap, and laugh as the tac escort your trying to kill cant move cause his power levels are at 1 if hes lucky. Your choice of phaser is obvious for the susbsytem shutdown, but it isn't reliable enough to work when you actually need it. polaron however specc'ed properly on your consoles and skill build can destroy a ships ability to create power very fast and for long periods of time. my polarons drop power by 57.8 per proc per system. how long you think they can keep their dps high when that happens?
I wont spell my build out for you it took some serious wasted upgrades and numerous doff changes and boff changes to get my ships to where they are. my weakest ship can full stop in the middle of an elite vaadwaur and take the hits and laugh (and no I don't fly escorts, why would I when I can make a cruiser fly just as well). so in your original posting stating that an engineer can kinda tank is massively inaccurate. btw the weakest ship I own is a hazari destroyer, not a weak ship by any means but quite a step down from a cruiser.
as far as your skill build. perhaps you should post that cause honestly I'm wondering if you stripped out survivability trying to build massive dps. like its been said before engineer isn't often going to see over 50K dps. Can I do it sure can I sustain it, no, my max sustained SOLO patrol dps is 43K, I don't count group queues for sustained dps cause everyone elses skills and debuffs are inlfuicing your abilities.
honeslty without knowing your skill build itself, the best advice I can give is plan your BOFF abilities before selecting the ship. Then once you have a plan for that, find a ship that will allow it or get you as close as possible. then do the tweaking of said skills with your doffs. Console slots are equally important. cruisers are typically heavy on eng consoles but there are a few out there that have a seriously awesome 4 eng 3 sci 4 tac set up.. Those cruisers are capable of ridiculous feats of tanking and dps, AT THE SAME TIME.
that last part is where the engineer shines. no other class can have the level of dps AND tanking ability that an engineer can. basing your view off the fact that a tac escort will outdps an eng escort (which isn't always true btw) is flawed at its core. in most of those situations yes a tac can out dps you, but can that tac outdps you and kill you with your ability to survive being at least 2x theres. they need to outdps you by a large margin in order to do so.
IMO engineer is THE strongest space and ground career. they are a powerhouse all around traited specialized and boff'ed and doff'ed correctly for your ship is the key. if you cant do that you will never have fun with that engineer.
It's all very nice, but what engineer specific skills will help you to kill an enemy?
EPS? NI?
Tacs have APA, GDF and FOMM.
You are talking very nicely about a tweaked ship build, but where does an engineer specific trait come into all of this, and forget about the MW.
Imagine the same ship with polaron weps, but with an access to tac class specific skills. Where would be an end for you then?
I can see that you know what you are talking about, but RSF and EPS are nowadays redundant since most tacs have viable alternatives to them AND STILL they get all of their offensive skills..
I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to say. You can be a master of ship building and a math expert at that, but if with all your weps and consoles you get a free:
+33.2% (49.6%) Base Damage strength for 30 sec
+3.32% (4.96%) Critical Chance for 30 sec
+33.2% (49.6%) Critical Severity for 30 sec
+80% (119.6%) Flight Turn Rate strength for 30 sec
Powerful goodies, sure if you say so. if that's the case explain to me how my 3 week old alien fed engineer can tank just about anything you can throw at her WHILE doing 30K+?
also as for the OP, I don't pvp often, but think twice before challenging a build like mine, you will die over and over again for my amusement regardless of your career or ship.
as for the build you posted.
Your an engineer trying to gear and play like a tac officer. STOP it your not a tac officer
from your weapon selection to your engine selection and the fact your flying a 6 weapon ship alone, you are doing it wrong. Sorry but I'm being honest. Do yourself a favor switch to polaron with flow cap, and laugh as the tac escort your trying to kill cant move cause his power levels are at 1 if hes lucky. Your choice of phaser is obvious for the susbsytem shutdown, but it isn't reliable enough to work when you actually need it. polaron however specc'ed properly on your consoles and skill build can destroy a ships ability to create power very fast and for long periods of time. my polarons drop power by 57.8 per proc per system. how long you think they can keep their dps high when that happens?
I wont spell my build out for you it took some serious wasted upgrades and numerous doff changes and boff changes to get my ships to where they are. my weakest ship can full stop in the middle of an elite vaadwaur and take the hits and laugh (and no I don't fly escorts, why would I when I can make a cruiser fly just as well). so in your original posting stating that an engineer can kinda tank is massively inaccurate. btw the weakest ship I own is a hazari destroyer, not a weak ship by any means but quite a step down from a cruiser.
as far as your skill build. perhaps you should post that cause honestly I'm wondering if you stripped out survivability trying to build massive dps. like its been said before engineer isn't often going to see over 50K dps. Can I do it sure can I sustain it, no, my max sustained SOLO patrol dps is 43K, I don't count group queues for sustained dps cause everyone elses skills and debuffs are inlfuicing your abilities.
honeslty without knowing your skill build itself, the best advice I can give is plan your BOFF abilities before selecting the ship. Then once you have a plan for that, find a ship that will allow it or get you as close as possible. then do the tweaking of said skills with your doffs. Console slots are equally important. cruisers are typically heavy on eng consoles but there are a few out there that have a seriously awesome 4 eng 3 sci 4 tac set up.. Those cruisers are capable of ridiculous feats of tanking and dps, AT THE SAME TIME.
that last part is where the engineer shines. no other class can have the level of dps AND tanking ability that an engineer can. basing your view off the fact that a tac escort will outdps an eng escort (which isn't always true btw) is flawed at its core. in most of those situations yes a tac can out dps you, but can that tac outdps you and kill you with your ability to survive being at least 2x theres. they need to outdps you by a large margin in order to do so.
IMO engineer is THE strongest space and ground career. they are a powerhouse all around traited specialized and boff'ed and doff'ed correctly for your ship is the key. if you cant do that you will never have fun with that engineer.
Please challenge him and record it. Make him call you a hacker just to prove your point.
don't get me wrong man I see where you are coming from, but that being said I don't agree with you either. sure the tac gets fantastic dps buffs for space cant argue with that, but there are very few tacs that can exploit every bit of that to their advantage to be able to kill an engineer with equal type gear and skill level.
yes you are correct point for point the tacs dps captain abilities are the best. but your discounting 2 of the best skills in the game because they don't directly influence dps. EPS and Nadion are huge impacts on potential sustained damage. situational for sure but when the situation demands that type of thing engineer will always come out on top. and sure MW has literally nothing to do with DPS, but it a hell of a thing. allowing engineers to go very deep into more dps oriented skill builds and consoles while still maintaining very good survivability.
tacs do their thing engineers do their thing in the end we achieve the same goal through different means. one safer than the other one more flashy than the other.
As has been said though, if the dps thing is really what you want, you might be playing the wrong career. engineer doesn't put out the massive burst that a tac can. but an engineer overall zonewide dps can easily keep up with that tac cause they are doing a constant 30k+ not 60K for 30 seconds then 15k for a minute.
Powerful goodies, sure if you say so. if that's the case explain to me how my 3 week old alien fed engineer can tank just about anything you can throw at her WHILE doing 30K+?
snip doesn't concern us
3 weeks old and 30k dps wow your awesome doing normal I presume ? with the hi DPS parser no less
how many purple doffs did you send your new toon
how many mk-14 weapons
how many millions of EC and Lobi
Do all this on a Romulan toon and do 60k DPS...That's my point..................get it ?
I don't care what you do on your Fed you can never overcome the 7.5% crit chance romulans get from there bridge officers
Whatever you do they do it with 7.5% more crit chance that's more crit chance then permentally running APO all the time
I hope this explains it to you
Hi DPS claims are got in groups with very powerful team mates who CARRY those who just want to say yay I got 25K DPS in my NX class..........
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
don't get me wrong man I see where you are coming from, but that being said I don't agree with you either. sure the tac gets fantastic dps buffs for space cant argue with that, but there are very few tacs that can exploit every bit of that to their advantage to be able to kill an engineer with equal type gear and skill level.
yes you are correct point for point the tacs dps captain abilities are the best. but your discounting 2 of the best skills in the game because they don't directly influence dps. EPS and Nadion are huge impacts on potential sustained damage. situational for sure but when the situation demands that type of thing engineer will always come out on top. and sure MW has literally nothing to do with DPS, but it a hell of a thing. allowing engineers to go very deep into more dps oriented skill builds and consoles while still maintaining very good survivability.
tacs do their thing engineers do their thing in the end we achieve the same goal through different means. one safer than the other one more flashy than the other.
As has been said though, if the dps thing is really what you want, you might be playing the wrong career. engineer doesn't put out the massive burst that a tac can. but an engineer overall zonewide dps can easily keep up with that tac cause they are doing a constant 30k+ not 60K for 30 seconds then 15k for a minute.
It has already been pointed out in this thread that Engineers and Tacticals have different playstyles. If you want to do damage, play Tac, if you want to survive, then play Engineer. OP cannot and will not get this fact through his head. OP is a troll.
Im an Engineer alllll the way ive tried the other classes and they dont fit my playstyle at all I've never played an mmo that had a class that better compliments my play style then an engineer. In ground combate i got mines bombs droids Cover Shield, the ability to smite my foes from the sky Like a GOD! lol In space I deal decent damage and rarely ever die and if You build right you can agro every enemy for a good 8-15(depending on the enemies number and their damage) seconds plenty of time for allies to heal up and flank the TRIBBLE out of em and above all else I love being able to line up my ship put her in park and pew pew till i cant pew pew no more
1.5% crit chance is such a world breaker. Feds can get the BO's too. or did you forget that little tidbit of info?
Sorry, just seems like you are a little misinformed on the Operative trait.
A Romulan captain with the Romulan Operative trait gains 1.5% CrtH and 3.8% CrtD. When you add in 5 Romulan bridge officers with the Superior Romulan Operative trait, that is a gain of 10% CrtH and 50% CrtD. So combined it is a gain of 11.5% CrtH and 53.8% CrtD.
Now looking at a KDF or Fed captain, the most they can gain are 3 Romulan Tactical Officers with the Superior Operative trait. So that is 6% CrtH and 30% CrtD.
The Romulan captain will have an edge of 5.5% CrtH and 23.8% CrtD over a Fed or a KDF captain. That advantage can make a huge difference.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
My main is a KDF Engineer who normally uses thier Fleet Tor'kaht, Fleet Mogh, or Narcine, all great Eng ships, before DR I was without too much difficulty doing plenty of DPS, 15k in Elites, with gear upgrades and mission changes that needs to be retested.
I've also upgraded those ships to t5u, so need to grab the masteries in all three.
But in the meantime I must say an Engineer in a Mah'ta is just non-stop fun.
Thanks for the Advanced Light Cruiser, Allied Escort Bundles, Jem-Hadar Light Battlecruiser, and Mek'leth
New Content Wishlist
T6 updates for the Kamarag & Vor'Cha
Heavy Cruiser & a Movie Era Style AoY Utility Cruiser
1.5% crit chance is such a world breaker. Feds can get the BO's too. or did you forget that little tidbit of info?
the rest of that dribble you posted im not even going to bother responding to.
1.5 character
2.0 science
2.0 engineering
2.0 engineering or science Equals 7.5 %
Feds and klinks cannot get this
So much for your dribble
Guess your not as smart as you thought huh?
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I cant believe this thread is here and they are still allowing dam999 to post this nonsense even upto today.
By assuming that dam999's complain is valid, it means dam999 is the best player to use the engineer because if he sucks, all of sucks in fed gameplay as engineer.
Although Engineers are not optimal in dps, they still deal significant dps more than sufficient play pve fast. Before DR and Beam barrage when you only had XII items, an engineer in a fed ship can average 15k DPS ISE PuG. Nowadays, you can do more dps than 15k on an engineer if you min/max everything, level 60, epic XIV items, have all traits available to choose from.
An engineer also excels in healing and tanking not unless you dont know how to build a competent engineer and dont know when to click the engineer abilities to chain those abilities.
I cant believe this thread is here and they are still allowing dam999 to post this nonsense even upto today.
By assuming that dam999's complain is valid, it means dam999 is the best player to use the engineer because if he sucks, all of sucks in fed gameplay as engineer.
Although Engineers are not optimal in dps, they still deal significant dps more than sufficient play pve fast. Before DR and Beam barrage when you only had XII items, an engineer in a fed ship can average 15k DPS ISE PuG. Nowadays, you can do more dps than 15k on an engineer if you min/max everything, level 60, epic XIV items, have all traits available to choose from.
An engineer also excels in healing and tanking not unless you dont know how to build a competent engineer and dont know when to click the engineer abilities to chain those abilities.
I agree that an engineer class is out powered in the space and that a nadion inversion is practically useless and easily replaceable with items within the game. Changes must be made because only non-player engineers are not complaining while those who have only one character, an engineer, are constantly waiting for Cryptic to do something about their skills to make them more enjoyable for regular players. There will always be elite 0.1% of the players with kick TRIBBLE engineer ships, but the rest of the casual players who spend ZEN to acquire equipment are not happy with what an engineer currently looks like in space.
I am not a DPS monger; that is not my engineer's job. My position is to keep my teammates flying, to boost the tacs and scis, to suck aggro away from people when they are in danger of going boom, then fix them. I do not put out the biggest amount of DPS, but I can fly into the middle of a furball, put down a good amount of it, and emerge from the other side in one piece. I will go toe to toe with a Vaudwaur Heavy Artillery ship and knock it down.
If you really want to see an engineer at work, come out with my fleet. We'll show you how Cure Ground is done.
You may note a theme here. Engineers are team players. Some of us are very good at pouring out the DPS; more of us are DOT. We are the ones who are left standing in the wreckage of our enemies, and usually are pretty good at making sure our allies stand there too.
All your gadgets are belong to me.
"Susse-thrai" had been the name bestowed upon her, half in anger, half in affection, by her old crew on Bloodwing; the keen-nosed, cranky, wily old she-beast, never less dangerous than when you thought her defenseless, and always growing new teeth far back in her throat to replace the old ones broken in biting out the last foe's heart. Romulans: left one homeworld, lost another, third time's the charm?
...but the rest of the casual players who spend ZEN to acquire equipment are not happy with what an engineer currently looks like in space.
If this thread has made anything at all clear, it is that you speak for absolutely no-one but yourself. Your presumption otherwise is insulting insofar as the monolithic block of 'us' would choose a spokesman with an ounce of charisma, rhetoric, and wit.
If this thread has made anything at all clear, it is that you speak for absolutely no-one but yourself. Your presumption otherwise is insulting insofar as the monolithic block of 'us' would choose a spokesman with an ounce of charisma, rhetoric, and wit.
He doesn't even have that. He simply wants the Engineer ham fisted to be a carbon copy of the Tactical officer while having a different name for the abilities. Plain and simple.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
OP my engineer and her cruiser would like a word with you. She breaks faces and doesn't afraid of anything. Threads like this pop up in every mmo I've ever played lol.
Seriously. Fun fact my engie did better then my Tac and Sci when Cryptic first injected steroids into advanced ques.
OP my engineer and her cruiser would like a word with you. She breaks faces and doesn't afraid of anything. Threads like this pop up in every mmo I've ever played lol.
Seriously. Fun fact my engie did better then my Tac and Sci when Cryptic first injected steroids into advanced ques.
OP is just butthurt because his super uber elite 999999999999 dps ship can't cut through a wall. a real player would change tactics, not whine about how useless walls are
Ummm, an engineer has the best tanking ability of any class. Period. We also have huge potential to heal both allies and ourselves. You obviously haven't used one very long or expected it to work the same way as a tactical or science character does. If you'd spent any amount of time using an engineer, you'd know that what your saying is BS.
Its true that engineers don't have a lot of damage potential, and they don't debuff enemies or do crowd control as well as science captains do. But there are also very few players who are even willing to try to understand how an engineer works. It takes far more dedication and trial and error to come up with a good engineering setups and even more time to learn how to best use it. It has to be played a certain way. You can't just rush in, popping off heals every 5 seconds and hope to be of any use.
It took me years of frustration, trial and error, and failures to find the setup that works for me. Anyone can level up a tac captain, slap a bunch of cannons on a ship, and do damage. It takes hard work to make an engineer work. And as I said, most players just aren't dedicated enough to do it.
I have to say, I kinda agree with you. In fact I would even go a little further and suggest that the engineer captain is far closer to the true spirit of what a captain is, than the other two. I've only been playing an engineer for about a week, but I learned very quickly, that in order to do well, I had to rely heavily on my support BOffs. Given the right set up, and the right ship choice, you can easily deal damage, but what I have found so far, is that I'm still fighting, while most others have been sent to the showers! I may be a little broken, but I'm still rocking on! The buffs you get as an engineer are far superior than just simple damage, in my opinion. I haven't tried a Science toon, but I found the Tac toons to be far too limited, or "Scopelocked" as it were. Engineers provide better variety.
My last fight with the Borg is a prime example, I just steamed ahead and took on a cube, then a Tac in an escort tagged along, we killed it for sure, but while I was still there plugging away at a constant 30-40% hull, while rotating and buffing my shields to the extreme every chance I got, with my low end tac boffs and high end engineer skills, he had to respawn at least twice! , and even then he hid behind me a time or two as well!
Tanks are awesome, and Engineers are the true spirit of Captains, they do what they do well, but to really succeed, they do need the support of those around them, so make sure you keep up with your Tac & Sci BOff skills as well... if that makes sense?
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment... I am well versed in disappointment, having walked this road a very long time..."
Comments
On the ground an eng is the best. I adore turrets and drones, orbital strike especially. Healing shields as well. In the space, eh..leaves much to be desired..
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/?build=khyzonengineer_8527
DBB is in the first slot and sometimes I use neutronium instead of RCS. Omega torp is a recent addition, otherwise I use another andorian DHC. Sometimes I use subspace jump console, etc. Perhaps a breen torp in the aft just when I pass the guy. There are combinations. 2 purple AP doffs and 3 blue wce doffs. Far from perfect, but I play elite space all the time and never die. Problem is, in PVP I can hardly scratch enemies shields (if they are good), although I can survive GW, placate, cloak cr@p tricks and yes even danubes with TB. Not a glass ship, but unable to inflict serious damage..
My char is 1,5 years old and I don't plan on creating a new one, at least not putting an effort in leveling it..
Eng in space, yes, is a junk..I don't realize why would people be against strengthening engies a bit, making them more relevant to the game. If they don't play it, why would they care anyway and if they do play it, why wouldn't they care?
Just as there is a difference between TRIBBLE and TRIBBLE, but you're the linguist here..
That's right.
quite bit more balanced now. These changes were mainly through the trait revamp (Eng and Sci got some kickass traits) and duty officers.
If you feel like a character is useless, reach out to a community to improve it. Your build is probably lacking.
If you want DPS play a Tac, if you want t be survivable play an Eng, if you want to be useful in other ways and do fancy space magic play a Sci.
Also keep in mind that we shouldn't conflate Tac/Eng/Sci with Escort/Cruiser/Sciship. There really is almost nothing holding you to the same ship as your captain class. (I say almost because the exception is that certain Science captain powers use Aux power or trigger of science boffs, so they favour science ships)
Powerful goodies, sure if you say so. if that's the case explain to me how my 3 week old alien fed engineer can tank just about anything you can throw at her WHILE doing 30K+?
also as for the OP, I don't pvp often, but think twice before challenging a build like mine, you will die over and over again for my amusement regardless of your career or ship.
as for the build you posted.
Your an engineer trying to gear and play like a tac officer. STOP it your not a tac officer
from your weapon selection to your engine selection and the fact your flying a 6 weapon ship alone, you are doing it wrong. Sorry but I'm being honest. Do yourself a favor switch to polaron with flow cap, and laugh as the tac escort your trying to kill cant move cause his power levels are at 1 if hes lucky. Your choice of phaser is obvious for the susbsytem shutdown, but it isn't reliable enough to work when you actually need it. polaron however specc'ed properly on your consoles and skill build can destroy a ships ability to create power very fast and for long periods of time. my polarons drop power by 57.8 per proc per system. how long you think they can keep their dps high when that happens?
I wont spell my build out for you it took some serious wasted upgrades and numerous doff changes and boff changes to get my ships to where they are. my weakest ship can full stop in the middle of an elite vaadwaur and take the hits and laugh (and no I don't fly escorts, why would I when I can make a cruiser fly just as well). so in your original posting stating that an engineer can kinda tank is massively inaccurate. btw the weakest ship I own is a hazari destroyer, not a weak ship by any means but quite a step down from a cruiser.
as far as your skill build. perhaps you should post that cause honestly I'm wondering if you stripped out survivability trying to build massive dps. like its been said before engineer isn't often going to see over 50K dps. Can I do it sure can I sustain it, no, my max sustained SOLO patrol dps is 43K, I don't count group queues for sustained dps cause everyone elses skills and debuffs are inlfuicing your abilities.
honeslty without knowing your skill build itself, the best advice I can give is plan your BOFF abilities before selecting the ship. Then once you have a plan for that, find a ship that will allow it or get you as close as possible. then do the tweaking of said skills with your doffs. Console slots are equally important. cruisers are typically heavy on eng consoles but there are a few out there that have a seriously awesome 4 eng 3 sci 4 tac set up.. Those cruisers are capable of ridiculous feats of tanking and dps, AT THE SAME TIME.
that last part is where the engineer shines. no other class can have the level of dps AND tanking ability that an engineer can. basing your view off the fact that a tac escort will outdps an eng escort (which isn't always true btw) is flawed at its core. in most of those situations yes a tac can out dps you, but can that tac outdps you and kill you with your ability to survive being at least 2x theres. they need to outdps you by a large margin in order to do so.
IMO engineer is THE strongest space and ground career. they are a powerhouse all around traited specialized and boff'ed and doff'ed correctly for your ship is the key. if you cant do that you will never have fun with that engineer.
As cbrjwrr said,
cbrjwrr's hit the nail right on the head. He backpedalled to "show me proof" that Engis can't beat tacs.
I show proof that Engis can beat Tacs. He backpedalled to excuses.
I don't think anything will convince this guy otherwise. He seems intent on insisting that engis are completely useless, no matter what facts are brought before him, and attempting to insult or distract those who prove him wrong. Layer upon layer of fallacies is what this guy depends upon to "prove" himself right.
His beliefs are just that, beliefs. And there's no reason why any of us should expend valuable time in trying to persuade this guy otherwise. He's not here asking for advice or to legitimately offer a suggestion to the Devs (if he were, I'd respect that). He's here to inflate his ego and argue, and there's no further point in entertaining such people.
So I close with this: dam999's belief is that engis are useless. Belief is not truth. The truth is that engis are very useful, just not in the role he believes they should fill (tac). The truth is that Engis are the best power managers in the game due to their captain abilities, which also means they are effective teamhealers, pressure damage dealers, and more.
-stardestroyer001
Former PvP Boot Camp Coach (Engi, teamhealer)
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I will however add my two cents to this post and say engies can take care of a tac. A while back, before LoR was on the servers, I got an Excelsior and buffed it to fleet level. Me and a fleetmate challenged each other to PvP, he was a tac in a F-Armitage. Now, although I failed to tank all of his hits I still tanked him long enough to get one over before being blasted to smithereens the following volley. This kept happening for the remainder of the match (granted he wasn't the best at it either, but I still respected his opinion when it came to aspects of the game). It was NOT about who was the best, we did it because I wanted to try my hand in an Excelsior - which worked and was my favourite ship until something else came along.
--NOTE FOR THE OP--
Don't you DARE try to dismiss my opinion as invalid on the basis that I disagree with yours, because I am quite sure that many other posters on this thread have the same/a similar opinion as myself. Happy hunting
It's all very nice, but what engineer specific skills will help you to kill an enemy?
EPS? NI?
Tacs have APA, GDF and FOMM.
You are talking very nicely about a tweaked ship build, but where does an engineer specific trait come into all of this, and forget about the MW.
Imagine the same ship with polaron weps, but with an access to tac class specific skills. Where would be an end for you then?
I can see that you know what you are talking about, but RSF and EPS are nowadays redundant since most tacs have viable alternatives to them AND STILL they get all of their offensive skills..
I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to say. You can be a master of ship building and a math expert at that, but if with all your weps and consoles you get a free:
+33.2% (49.6%) Base Damage strength for 30 sec
+3.32% (4.96%) Critical Chance for 30 sec
+33.2% (49.6%) Critical Severity for 30 sec
+80% (119.6%) Flight Turn Rate strength for 30 sec
brother, you are going down..
Please challenge him and record it. Make him call you a hacker just to prove your point.
yes you are correct point for point the tacs dps captain abilities are the best. but your discounting 2 of the best skills in the game because they don't directly influence dps. EPS and Nadion are huge impacts on potential sustained damage. situational for sure but when the situation demands that type of thing engineer will always come out on top. and sure MW has literally nothing to do with DPS, but it a hell of a thing. allowing engineers to go very deep into more dps oriented skill builds and consoles while still maintaining very good survivability.
tacs do their thing engineers do their thing in the end we achieve the same goal through different means. one safer than the other one more flashy than the other.
As has been said though, if the dps thing is really what you want, you might be playing the wrong career. engineer doesn't put out the massive burst that a tac can. but an engineer overall zonewide dps can easily keep up with that tac cause they are doing a constant 30k+ not 60K for 30 seconds then 15k for a minute.
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
It has already been pointed out in this thread that Engineers and Tacticals have different playstyles. If you want to do damage, play Tac, if you want to survive, then play Engineer. OP cannot and will not get this fact through his head. OP is a troll.
1.5% crit chance is such a world breaker. Feds can get the BO's too. or did you forget that little tidbit of info?
the rest of that dribble you posted im not even going to bother responding to.
He wants advice, but is not listening.
He ordered visual references and proofs for our informations, but claims them false and not done wrong.
He has at least 3 threads about this theme.
It should be reported.
Sorry, just seems like you are a little misinformed on the Operative trait.
A Romulan captain with the Romulan Operative trait gains 1.5% CrtH and 3.8% CrtD. When you add in 5 Romulan bridge officers with the Superior Romulan Operative trait, that is a gain of 10% CrtH and 50% CrtD. So combined it is a gain of 11.5% CrtH and 53.8% CrtD.
Now looking at a KDF or Fed captain, the most they can gain are 3 Romulan Tactical Officers with the Superior Operative trait. So that is 6% CrtH and 30% CrtD.
The Romulan captain will have an edge of 5.5% CrtH and 23.8% CrtD over a Fed or a KDF captain. That advantage can make a huge difference.
I've also upgraded those ships to t5u, so need to grab the masteries in all three.
But in the meantime I must say an Engineer in a Mah'ta is just non-stop fun.
1.5 character
2.0 science
2.0 engineering
2.0 engineering or science Equals 7.5 %
Feds and klinks cannot get this
So much for your dribble
Guess your not as smart as you thought huh?
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
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By assuming that dam999's complain is valid, it means dam999 is the best player to use the engineer because if he sucks, all of sucks in fed gameplay as engineer.
Although Engineers are not optimal in dps, they still deal significant dps more than sufficient play pve fast. Before DR and Beam barrage when you only had XII items, an engineer in a fed ship can average 15k DPS ISE PuG. Nowadays, you can do more dps than 15k on an engineer if you min/max everything, level 60, epic XIV items, have all traits available to choose from.
An engineer also excels in healing and tanking not unless you dont know how to build a competent engineer and dont know when to click the engineer abilities to chain those abilities.
I agree that an engineer class is out powered in the space and that a nadion inversion is practically useless and easily replaceable with items within the game. Changes must be made because only non-player engineers are not complaining while those who have only one character, an engineer, are constantly waiting for Cryptic to do something about their skills to make them more enjoyable for regular players. There will always be elite 0.1% of the players with kick TRIBBLE engineer ships, but the rest of the casual players who spend ZEN to acquire equipment are not happy with what an engineer currently looks like in space.
If you really want to see an engineer at work, come out with my fleet. We'll show you how Cure Ground is done.
You may note a theme here. Engineers are team players. Some of us are very good at pouring out the DPS; more of us are DOT. We are the ones who are left standing in the wreckage of our enemies, and usually are pretty good at making sure our allies stand there too.
All your gadgets are belong to me.
Romulans: left one homeworld, lost another, third time's the charm?
If this thread has made anything at all clear, it is that you speak for absolutely no-one but yourself. Your presumption otherwise is insulting insofar as the monolithic block of 'us' would choose a spokesman with an ounce of charisma, rhetoric, and wit.
He doesn't even have that. He simply wants the Engineer ham fisted to be a carbon copy of the Tactical officer while having a different name for the abilities. Plain and simple.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Seriously. Fun fact my engie did better then my Tac and Sci when Cryptic first injected steroids into advanced ques.
OP is just butthurt because his super uber elite 999999999999 dps ship can't cut through a wall. a real player would change tactics, not whine about how useless walls are
I have to say, I kinda agree with you. In fact I would even go a little further and suggest that the engineer captain is far closer to the true spirit of what a captain is, than the other two. I've only been playing an engineer for about a week, but I learned very quickly, that in order to do well, I had to rely heavily on my support BOffs. Given the right set up, and the right ship choice, you can easily deal damage, but what I have found so far, is that I'm still fighting, while most others have been sent to the showers! I may be a little broken, but I'm still rocking on! The buffs you get as an engineer are far superior than just simple damage, in my opinion. I haven't tried a Science toon, but I found the Tac toons to be far too limited, or "Scopelocked" as it were. Engineers provide better variety.
My last fight with the Borg is a prime example, I just steamed ahead and took on a cube, then a Tac in an escort tagged along, we killed it for sure, but while I was still there plugging away at a constant 30-40% hull, while rotating and buffing my shields to the extreme every chance I got, with my low end tac boffs and high end engineer skills, he had to respawn at least twice!
Tanks are awesome, and Engineers are the true spirit of Captains, they do what they do well, but to really succeed, they do need the support of those around them, so make sure you keep up with your Tac & Sci BOff skills as well... if that makes sense?