Instead you have a situation where you talk about pvp in space in 1vs1 scenario, but people at the same time stubbornly answering about events, ground drones and the rest of bull**** which has nothing to do whatsoever with the question being asked..
It's because your OP made a direct attack on a whole class and people got defensive, not without reason because Engineers are not useless. The reasons are all over the replies here. The OP had no mention of PvP at all, let alone the space-only 1v1 scenarios that only came about in the later posts, and finally it wasn't posted in the PvP Forums; so all the "off topic" replies you're seeing are probably answers to your OP. It's a common pattern here.
IThe OP had no mention of PvP at all, let alone the space-only 1v1 scenarios that only came about in the later posts, and finally it wasn't posted in the PvP Forums
^ This.
dam999 - Open a new thread in the PvP forum, title: "Engineer in a Khyzon - viable for 1v1 PvP?" See what they have to say. I have no doubt they'll be brutally honest, but if there's a way to make it work the PvP vets will find it.
Engineers are the best healers in a pug PvP.
Science are the best healers for a premade due to Sensor Scan and Subnucleonic Beam.
Still, a single engineer in a premade is a good pick.
An engineer in an escort makes nearly no sense, due to weapon power overcapping, making Nadion Inversion and Power Transfer useless for the task, not enough spike to punch through shields.
A Science escort makes sense because it can run the best debuffs in game.
Won't bother with PvE as everything works in there. Just DPS it and you're done.
There is no chance in hell that you can win against a tac captain in a pvp with similar skills as a pilot. Imagine bug vs engineer in any escort. What are the chances of survivability? Virtually non-existant. Only tac pilots compliment engineer class, because they don't get to fly with that TRIBBLE.
Since I was not referring to ground capabilities I am not interested in turrets and guns. Only space, dps, PVP capabilities etc.
Not being a boxing bag so others can destroy and blow things up. It is boring, irritating and it needs to change, period.
LOL ... ok first off... like others have said L2P .. can't win against a tac officer... right, if the tac officer can get through your shield heals hull heals, then they might can damage you, if your actually waiting through those pvp queue's wow feel sorry for ya, last time i checked was almost an hour between matches... if you came here just to pvp i don't think this is for you. against pve there is no stronger class than an engineer. you just have to play them right they aren't science they aren't tac . your not going to do massive dps, but steady constant damage i can hold my own against 5-9 enemy ships on advance MU. engineer is THE tank and if you build right you can put out impressive dps...
The goal of the engineering class is to outlast your opponent until you wittle him (or her, or it, depending on the species) away until they die. An engineer in a cruiser should be able to survive an alpha strike and come back with a constant flow of damage. Not high DPS, not medium DPS, but constant damage. Think of slow moving lava, it doesn't get there in a hurry but it gets the job done.
If you can't survice an alpha strike your doing something wrong. Get better shields, use a better ship. If you can't heal hull damage your doing something wrong, change BOFF setup, get a better ship.
I've only died when attacked from multiple sides at the same time. In one on one it's either a tie or I eventually win. It may take me the entire match to kill a single ship, but when he goes down I'm still at 100% hull.
If that's not what you want to do you should not be playing this class.
It can't heal, that's done by the science class, it can't deal dps as it is done by the tactical class.
Of what good is an eng? It can miracle worker himself? It is ridiculous..It can only tank, and even that not well enough because the goal is to destroy the opponent and only being passive without dealing a sufficient amount of DPS you are basically useless and just postponing your demise..
Will the Cryptic team finally give the engineer class something worthy of playing them? A special space skill that would give 30-40% extra damage, or any significant damage boost, such as alpha strike.
Why not completely delete the class since its useful as a fifth wheel on a car.
I've been an Eng. Cpt. for about 2 1/2 years, and its my main Toon, I use. It tooken me awhile to figer out the aspect of that class. I do on an Avg. is about at least 20K DPS in all my cruiser(s), escorts, Warship(s) and Heavy Destroyer(s). I have found out, to able to use its effetely, and get the most out of that Eng. Cpt. Class is to keep its power level High. Its one key it has tooken me awhile to figer out. You also have to alline your Boff's Skill with your Skill Tree, and Doff's selections. (Aspet that most new player are having the most trouble with.) And also setting your power settings aswell. Here is a build I use for instance, for my Galaxy Class.
You might not have all the Consoles, or Weapons. But if you'll over look it, you should be able to understand, or general review of what I was doing on that build. You don't have to go with Disruptors. But its just a guide of the Two Peace sets I'm using, to get the most out of that ship as in extra power in the subsystem, and critical chance increase, and severity as well. I also filled in the Skill Tree, as where I put my points towards, and Traits as well. You can click under Description to see what I have listed as for Doff that I am using. I hope this helps in some way.
So basically, an eng can never outpower tac. That was a premise which I built my conclusion on. Pitty that it took 5 pages for someone to tell the truth as it is. Pvp 1vs1 in solar winds is either draw or a loss for an eng captain. Unless your opponent is a moron ofc. But if both of you have everything epic, best of the best stuff in sto, tachyon mines, subspace jump, stuff that is not advertised anyway, then you are draw AT BEST.
Way to miss the point. No, it's not very smart for an Engineer to take an Escort into PvP. That is on you for making a bad choice. In PvP, an Engineer's role is tanking/team support. The end. Full stop. If you're unable or unwilling to fill that role, roll a Tac.
As you're aware, PvP is a totally different entity from PvE. However, organized PvP is a whole different entity from normal, queued PvP. There are some absolutely fantastic fleets out there that specialize in PvP. Perhaps you should look them up in the recruitment section and see what they can teach you.
As I said, I am not interested in the ground concept since ships are what people buy and get to fly. It is more or less a space oriented game and I prefer it as well as the ZEN shop does.
Engineer class can never ever defeat a tac captain in an escort, ever. It can only survive a bit longer before it explodes. It has crappy DPS because tac captains have attack pattern alpha, fire on my mark, go down fighting etc.
Look at attack pattern alpha:
+33.2% (49.6%) Base Damage strength for 30 sec
+3.32% (4.96%) Critical Chance for 30 sec
+33.2% (49.6%) Critical Severity for 30 sec
+80% (119.6%) Flight Turn Rate strength for 30 sec
It is ludicrous.
Engineering class needs something similar because APA with APOIII can vaporise any ship to the cloud of dust in seconds.
Engineering class can't fight against that, miracle worker or not, or even 2 of those with one being reseted it DOESN'T MATTER! You can't penetrate tac ships shields and he can surely penetrate yours.
Everyone who says that eng class can win a pvp against a tac captain is either ludicrous or a liar.
Tac bugs RUN from my engineer in PVP you obviously don't know how to use the class.
The key to engineer DPS is power management. A high power transfer rate combined with your engineer skills and leech guarantees great dps.
Also the defensive nature of an engineer's captain skills allows you to trait more offensively you can easily slot all offensive traits and still be tanky as all hell.
My Engineer Tiberius Kirk from the ka-tet fleet runs advanced queues, successfully pugs korfez and KILLS bug ships run by romulan tacs with SRO boffs.
If you think engineer is useless in pvp I dare you to challenge me I will prove without a shadow of a doubt that a well built engineer is a monster in pvp.
This class is the most balanced, capable of dealing high dps while taking high incoming damage. And not to forget, it is by far the strongest groundclass.
The key to engineer DPS is power management. A high power transfer rate combined with your engineer skills and leech guarantees great dps.
Also the defensive nature of an engineer's captain skills allows you to trait more offensively you can easily slot all offensive traits and still be tanky as all hell.
My Engineer Tiberius Kirk from the ka-tet fleet runs advanced queues, successfully pugs korfez and KILLS bug ships run by romulan tacs with SRO boffs.
If you think engineer is useless in pvp I dare you to challenge me I will prove without a shadow of a doubt that a well built engineer is a monster in pvp.
Tiberius Kirk@cronicus666
Glad you understood what I was saying about earlier, about keeping your Power Level high. That's one of the keys function of an Eng Cpt.
In my opinion the Engineering Class is currently the best class around.
- You can do DPS with the right equipment and skills
- You can tank pretty decent.
- You have a lot of utilities to use on space / ground.
At the moment I prefer my engineering captain over all other characters I have, as it is the jack of all trades.
If you feel your Engineer is useless, you might want to go over your build and skilltree again.
My main is an Engineer, i love him but your wrong on all accounts
1. Sub par DPS that will lag way behind Sci's and Tac's
2. Power Creep makes tanking useless in this game. a Tacs doing 60k doesn't need a tank, cause everything is dead in 2 seconds.
3. Yes on ground we are awesome. In space we have no direct debuff abilities. or ways to directly buff our DPS.
You can pretend all you want but this game is about DPS. Tac's get there in the fast lane, Sci's take the long road. Engineers can't find the road. I say this where my Engineer can do 18k in a cruiser. But to do that I have to abandon any and all identity as an Engineer.
Further proof. Engineer console slots are where Universals rule the ship layout. Science and Tac are too valuable.. Engineer consoles are blah.
My main is an Engineer, i love him but your wrong on all accounts
1. Sub par DPS that will lag way behind Sci's and Tac's
2. Power Creep makes tanking useless in this game. a Tacs doing 60k doesn't need a tank, cause everything is dead in 2 seconds.
3. Yes on ground we are awesome. In space we have no direct debuff abilities. or ways to directly buff our DPS.
You can pretend all you want but this game is about DPS. Tac's get there in the fast lane, Sci's take the long road. Engineers can't find the road. I say this where my Engineer can do 18k in a cruiser. But to do that I have to abandon any and all identity as an Engineer.
Further proof. Engineer console slots are where Universals rule the ship layout. Science and Tac are too valuable.. Engineer consoles are blah.
^This!
People will say, yeah engies are cool, extra power, survivability, bur it all depends on a ship. A tac in a cruiser can tank as well but still deal A LOT more dps.. I mean, what are we talking about. An eng cap has what, miracle worker? Is that a trait that makes him more resistant? Wngineering fleet perhaps? lol, This is all bs. Tac captains have APA, GDF, Tactical fleet..all of which boosts DPS..ENORMOUSLY..
And yeah, this game IS based on DPS.
People who write that they have an eng char write only so they can say something against the only logical conclusion, and that is that an engineer class is TRIBBLE in space. Period.
My 27k DPS Engineer says differently. Engineers can do DPS, it is a longer road to get there, but it is possible. If you hate Engineers so much, delete your's and re roll something else. I have played all three and Engineer fits my playstyle the most. Liked Tac and hated Sci. Why did I hate Sci? I couldn't get it to fit my playstyle. It doesn't mean Sci sucks and I don't go telling people that, it means I suck at Sci. I gave it up and play to my strengths instead.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
No one denied that Tacs are the DPS dealers. Yes they are. PewPewPew.
But it is a false statement that Engineers are useless. If they are useless to you, ok. Fine.
But others have them as their main character and it is not really polite to make this class bad for other players.
Engineers are in fact the second highest DPS dealers in game, and CAN!!! defeat a Tactical player based on how good the player has learned the game mechanics.
A good Tactical player can shoot the TRIBBLE out of others, and a miserable Tactical player CAN!! be defeated by lower tier ships too.
It is always based on YOUR own understanding of the game.
No one denied that Tacs are the DPS dealers. Yes they are. PewPewPew.
But it is a false statement that Engineers are useless. If they are useless to you, ok. Fine.
But others have them as their main character and it is not really polite to make this class bad for other players.
Engineers are in fact the second highest DPS dealers in game, and CAN!!! defeat a Tactical player based on how good the player has learned the game mechanics.
A good Tactical player can shoot the TRIBBLE out of others, and a miserable Tactical player CAN!! be defeated by lower tier ships too.
It is always based on YOUR own understanding of the game.
Why did you choose an Engineer character anyway?
Because I thought eng would have more capabilities in terms of upgrading ships etc. I didn't really make a research before playing the game, I just created a character and lvled it up. I thought tac would be boring, but then you see amazing dps just by their APA or GDF while you have to use rarest sh..it doffs and best consoles (back then before the delta) to get to 60% of what an average joe tac buckaroo has.
People will say, yeah engies are cool, extra power, survivability, bur it all depends on a ship. A tac in a cruiser can tank as well but still deal A LOT more dps.. I mean, what are we talking about. An eng cap has what, miracle worker? Is that a trait that makes him more resistant? Wngineering fleet perhaps? lol, This is all bs. Tac captains have APA, GDF, Tactical fleet..all of which boosts DPS..ENORMOUSLY..
And yeah, this game IS based on DPS.
People who write that they have an eng char write only so they can say something against the only logical conclusion, and that is that an engineer class is TRIBBLE in space. Period.
Your logic is flawed. You base your assumptions purely on the idea that you know all and everyone else knows nothing. Because it has been for you, so too must it be for others. This is illogical and to state that you are looking for others to "admit to the only logical conclusion" is an illogical statement in itself.
I grant that in your experience you believe yourself to be right and that is an opinion you are free to share. I even grant that it is your choice to be so devote in your belief of righteousness that you feel the need to tell us about not only your perceived superior intellect, but apparently your perceived superior playing ability as well. The fact that others choose to hold their own beliefs does not make them "stupid" or "ignorant." It simply means that their opinions differ from your own and they are entitled to that belief.
Logically, you can infer that my belief is that you are small person, who feels the need to put others down to make up for your own inadequacies. You are incapable of accepting that others have a different viewpoint than your own and have demonstrated this by refusing to acknowledge that others have provided very compelling arguments to counter your original posting.
Furthermore, you have provided no "proof" of your own to warrant a conclusion that your "logic" is correct. Rather, the only factual information you have provided is a build for our viewing that does not take into account the functionality/mechanics of the game or the capabilities of an Engineer. The remainder is merely a compiling of opinions that have been rejected by the majority of posters in this thread, which I would conclude you find frustrating because it diminishes your position of "being right." The fact that you resort to degrading comments would seem to indicate this and that you cannot provide any substantial proof to support your claims.
If you wish to feel important, I would highly recommend that future posts state that you only wish to have people responding that share your opinion and intend to inflate your ego. All others need not apply and can focus on bantering with others who can express their differences of opinion without resorting to degrading comments.
Because I thought eng would have more capabilities in terms of upgrading ships etc. I didn't really make a research before playing the game, I just created a character and lvled it up. I thought tac would be boring, but then you see amazing dps just by their APA or GDF while you have to use rarest sh..it doffs and best consoles (back then before the delta) to get to 60% of what an average joe tac buckaroo has.
It is always wise to "look around' before you actually start in an MMO. You must think, this game is changing, evolving over the years. Things get nerfed, things get buffed. Just come here and ask and you will be helped. And I say this not to prank you, but as a tip for later.
Say, how far are you with your Engineer? Leveld up, all Reputation? Would it work out if you start a new Tactical character?
You know, when I started years ago, I choose the Sci for character. He is somehow the wizard and I felt attracted to it. I wanted to make him more tactical and tried to give him more weaponpower and that stuff. But it didnt work. I never used those Exotic Abilities because I saw now usefullness in them.
Then, last year I accepted that I can't be a DPS dealer and started to work on using the Exotic thingies I have access too. And I must say they are very usefull.
Sure, no DPS dealing but also powerful.
Each class has its own positiv and negativ side.
You should really try to make a second Tactical character if you want.
My first toon was an Engineer. I like all the toys he has. Orbital Strike FTW! I also like the fact he can soak up damage and keep going. He can also help keep other players in the fight with some of the heals he gets. What he isn't is a DPS monster swanning about in a glass cannon. Put him in an Escort once. Didn't like it.
My sole Rommie char is an Engineer. He flies a Fleet Mogai which is set up as a BeamScort. Kinda cool being able to solo a TAC Cube because no matter what it dishes out, he can take it.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Your logic is flawed. You base your assumptions purely on the idea that you know all and everyone else knows nothing. Because it has been for you, so too must it be for others. This is illogical and to state that you are looking for others to "admit to the only logical conclusion" is an illogical statement in itself.
I grant that in your experience you believe yourself to be right and that is an opinion you are free to share. I even grant that it is your choice to be so devote in your belief of righteousness that you feel the need to tell us about not only your perceived superior intellect, but apparently your perceived superior playing ability as well. The fact that others choose to hold their own beliefs does not make them "stupid" or "ignorant." It simply means that their opinions differ from your own and they are entitled to that belief.
Logically, you can infer that my belief is that you are small person, who feels the need to put others down to make up for your own inadequacies. You are incapable of accepting that others have a different viewpoint than your own and have demonstrated this by refusing to acknowledge that others have provided very compelling arguments to counter your original posting.
Furthermore, you have provided no "proof" of your own to warrant a conclusion that your "logic" is correct. Rather, the only factual information you have provided is a build for our viewing that does not take into account the functionality/mechanics of the game or the capabilities of an Engineer. The remainder is merely a compiling of opinions that have been rejected by the majority of posters in this thread, which I would conclude you find frustrating because it diminishes your position of "being right." The fact that you resort to degrading comments would seem to indicate this and that you cannot provide any substantial proof to support your claims.
If you wish to feel important, I would highly recommend that future posts state that you only wish to have people responding that share your opinion and intend to inflate your ego. All others need not apply and can focus on bantering with others who can express their differences of opinion without resorting to degrading comments.
Live Long and Prosper
I know you feel important for writing such a long reply in a topic not so relevant to anyone but those that somehow feel personally hurt by the premise of the engineer's lack of space combat abilities. You've probably read all of it couple of times just to make sure that everything is well written so you can impress your forum buddies whose opinion you value so much that you probably identify yourself through their thumbs up support. However, argumentative discussion is not for the faint of heart, especially those whose alter ego took over the harsh realities of life in a desperate attempt of self-realisation through what appears to be a seemingly superficial knowledge of a computer game, albeit a good one, but still just a game. Consequently, you've laboured to produce a logical diarrhea which probably reflects your own modus vivendi. Good luck in your future endeavours, you will need it..
I strongly suggest you roll a new Tac. It's not hard to level up from 1-50 and get the Reputations rolling with the Daily mark bonuses. Unless you got Lockbox ships with your Engineer, you're not losing much from creating a new character except time. And even that is debatable these days.
Either way, please stop with the insults. I'm sorry you don't like Engineers, but bashing them won't get you anywhere, except offend those who like them.
Your logic is flawed. You base your assumptions purely on the idea that you know all and everyone else knows nothing. Because it has been for you, so too must it be for others. This is illogical and to state that you are looking for others to "admit to the only logical conclusion" is an illogical statement in itself.
I grant that in your experience you believe yourself to be right and that is an opinion you are free to share. I even grant that it is your choice to be so devote in your belief of righteousness that you feel the need to tell us about not only your perceived superior intellect, but apparently your perceived superior playing ability as well. The fact that others choose to hold their own beliefs does not make them "stupid" or "ignorant." It simply means that their opinions differ from your own and they are entitled to that belief.
Logically, you can infer that my belief is that you are small person, who feels the need to put others down to make up for your own inadequacies. You are incapable of accepting that others have a different viewpoint than your own and have demonstrated this by refusing to acknowledge that others have provided very compelling arguments to counter your original posting.
Furthermore, you have provided no "proof" of your own to warrant a conclusion that your "logic" is correct. Rather, the only factual information you have provided is a build for our viewing that does not take into account the functionality/mechanics of the game or the capabilities of an Engineer. The remainder is merely a compiling of opinions that have been rejected by the majority of posters in this thread, which I would conclude you find frustrating because it diminishes your position of "being right." The fact that you resort to degrading comments would seem to indicate this and that you cannot provide any substantial proof to support your claims.
If you wish to feel important, I would highly recommend that future posts state that you only wish to have people responding that share your opinion and intend to inflate your ego. All others need not apply and can focus on bantering with others who can express their differences of opinion without resorting to degrading comments.
Tac has more dps than engineer: In terms of captain abilities, yes.
Star Trek Online = DPS. False; STO is about destroying opponents, not spitting out numbers. It's important to note the difference between the two. The former usually results in a completed mission. The other is just a metric of determining how quickly you do so - NOT what you're actually doing. It's analogous to saying velocity is displacement. It is not - it is only the rate at which an object displaces, per unit time. Significant difference.
Tac > Engineer: False. Tacs perform spike damage more effectively than engis due to captain powers. However, they have a harder time with pressure damage (ie, beams) due to the lack of defensive captain abilities. Ships that focus on pressure damage also have to account for incoming damage over an extended period of time, which a tac may be able to handle, but an engi definitely finds easier. Engis also have EPS-Weed and Nadion Inversion which help with boosting power levels and reducing power drain respectively, which helps a great deal with BFAW cruiser performance.
Tac and Engis are similar, but they are two different breeds. Pushing an Engi to do spike damage is not going to be as effective as pushing an Engi to do pressure damage. Just like ships, the player must select the right career path for the right role. Pushing a square peg in a round hole won't work.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
Not sure honestly what you're talking about there buddy. I really don't It doesn't take much to build up the EC to buy the Blue version doffs you need for the build you're looking for. My engi in my Rom T5.5 would heal just fine and he needed it too because he had TRIBBLE for gear flying what was essentially an escort with no support doffs that mattered.
The sci ships can heal shields sure but it's the hull that matters to keeps you alive. With their most recent changes and the doff they offered this weekend you should be set as an engineer.
I use batteries heavily in my build because with each it improves the power natively to the rest of the subsystems. Then with the doff from this weekend event, you can get buffs.
I've received a few batteries in my time so that definitely helps keep the power high but I also make it a point to get as many as possible onto my ship in eq and gear slots.
Because of the free Dyson stuff I now have a free shield battery, the red matter capacitor, since he's fed aligned he gets access to the plasma manifold on a ship I bought a long time ago, and the engis own innate ability to increase energy absorption for a brief period. I also added some of the other types of batteries according to my needs, like shields since I am in an escort that's not leveled yet.
You could totally rock out some other energy doff builder types like one of my favorites is a doff that generates shield energy when using energy weapons, or another one that generates aux power when using exotic damage skills if you're in a sci ship that comes in handy. If you like to use the emergency power to subsystem skill you could totally get the doff that improves the healing if you're using EPTAux or the one that gives you a bonus to power in all other subsystems (which I'm totally thinking of doing actually) that way you basically never run out of power and you can increase the effectiveness of your heals.
There's also several traits you can use to improve healing and the Tier 5 skill for 8472 task force is an awesome addition to healing in space.
Ok, so your all about the PVP? Also according to you a high DPS ship should take out a lower DPS ship?
One of my fleet mates is a 30K+ DPS Scimitar, he's a tac. I'm in my 15k DPS Fleet Excelsior...
He should kill me according to you. Yet he doesn't.
I'm still in my 15k fleet excelsior. I'm now up against TWO Scimitar's both of which are ran by tac captains. One of them is a 25k dps ship, the other was a 40k dps ship. According to you, i should have died.
I didnt.
You are probably thinking "ohhhhh well, you didnt kill one of them though did you!?". I got one of them killed...and im a tac, flying what is essentially an engineers ship.
Now you are probably thinking "well!! an engineer couldnt kill you!!!"
Wrong again. Many, MANY times in 1v1 pvp I have went up against a specced out engineer. The 'neer in their choice of ship and me in either my fleet excelsior or the fleet avenger. About 90% of the engineers i came across I simply couldnt kill, and that is even with my romulan character in a scimitar which clocks in at 27k dps with a full dual heavy 5 front cannon load out. All they do is pop off engineering team and they are healed.
Meanwhile the constant PRESSURE damage which the engineer is dishing out will, over 70% of the time...eventually kill me. Almost certainly 99% of the time if I am in my Scimitar in a 1v1 against an engineer...that engineer will almost certainly win in a long protracted battle.
DOS means absolutley NOTHING in PVP. High DPS loaded scimitars are essentially one big huge glass cannon. Once you get past its alpha strike an engineer can rip through that scimitars shielding and take out its hull.
A tac's worst enemy is pressure damage. Spike damage from an alpha from another tac can be healed out with the limited healing an escort can do. PRESSURE damage in a 1v1 environment will eventually take that tac captain down, because the heals wont be able to catch up with the constant pressure damage...and if there is one thing an engineer is good at, its constant pressure damage.
As for the old Jem Bug ship... tractor it and then wail on it. The jem bug ship survives for one reason, its a speed tank, you get that jem bug in a tractor, or anything that will hold it and then wail on it with a broadside of 7 beams, or a 5 dhc load out on a fleet avenger...that bug ship will die.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Ok, so your all about the PVP? Also according to you a high DPS ship should take out a lower DPS ship?
One of my fleet mates is a 30K+ DPS Scimitar, he's a tac. I'm in my 15k DPS Fleet Excelsior...
He should kill me according to you. Yet he doesn't.
I'm still in my 15k fleet excelsior. I'm now up against TWO Scimitar's both of which are ran by tac captains. One of them is a 25k dps ship, the other was a 40k dps ship. According to you, i should have died.
I didnt.
You are probably thinking "ohhhhh well, you didnt kill one of them though did you!?". I got one of them killed...and im a tac, flying what is essentially an engineers ship.
Now you are probably thinking "well!! an engineer couldnt kill you!!!"
Wrong again. Many, MANY times in 1v1 pvp I have went up against a specced out engineer. The 'neer in their choice of ship and me in either my fleet excelsior or the fleet avenger. About 90% of the engineers i came across I simply couldnt kill, and that is even with my romulan character in a scimitar which clocks in at 27k dps with a full dual heavy 5 front cannon load out. All they do is pop off engineering team and they are healed.
Meanwhile the constant PRESSURE damage which the engineer is dishing out will, over 70% of the time...eventually kill me. Almost certainly 99% of the time if I am in my Scimitar in a 1v1 against an engineer...that engineer will almost certainly win in a long protracted battle.
DOS means absolutley NOTHING in PVP. High DPS loaded scimitars are essentially one big huge glass cannon. Once you get past its alpha strike an engineer can rip through that scimitars shielding and take out its hull.
A tac's worst enemy is pressure damage. Spike damage from an alpha from another tac can be healed out with the limited healing an escort can do. PRESSURE damage in a 1v1 environment will eventually take that tac captain down, because the heals wont be able to catch up with the constant pressure damage...and if there is one thing an engineer is good at, its constant pressure damage.
As for the old Jem Bug ship... tractor it and then wail on it. The jem bug ship survives for one reason, its a speed tank, you get that jem bug in a tractor, or anything that will hold it and then wail on it with a broadside of 7 beams, or a 5 dhc load out on a fleet avenger...that bug ship will die.
There are a few flaws to your response. In team pve content if the other 4 are high DPS specs then there is no need to tank.
In PVP yes Engineers can do pressure damage. But their primary role is healing. A sci could do that just as easy in the same ship and provide debuffs that the Engineer can't.
Yawn.... I could not imagine what would be more exciting two engineers in cruisers 1v1 pvping or paint drying.. At least I know in the end that paint will dry can't say the same for 1 engineer beating another.
With Vape builds in PVP no class can tank that. power creep is so high that often an Engineer healer can't heal fast enough to keep up. especially if the other side has one of their own. So what happens is you have two cruisers pestering each other doing presure damage and not healing while 4v4 fight it out.
FYI if the sci's you know can't out damage an engineer I would suggest you have skewed anecdotal experiences. Considering I can consistently crit my TBR for over 10k a tic on my sci.
I have seen tacs tank as well as engineers. I have seen sci's heal as well as engineers. Tacs can use sci powers better than sci's... none of these statements hold true for engineers.
All I have to say is this. I have seen engineers take ships into the beating heart of a furnace in MU, 5-7 Typhoons and other trash firing away at it, and simply sit there, take it and endure while dishing out fire and proceed to eventually kill them all. SOLO.
There is no tac captain out there that could of pulled that stunt and lived. Period the end.
Tac captains are good at good spike damage, but damage long term, giving it out as fast as you are taking it, sorry engineers will always outlast every other class bar none.
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All I have to say is this. I have seen engineers take ships into the beating heart of a furnace in MU, 5-7 Typhoons and other trash firing away at it, and simply sit there, take it and endure while dishing out fire and proceed to eventually kill them all. SOLO.
There is no tac captain out there that could of pulled that stunt and lived. Period the end.
Tac captains are good at good spike damage, but damage long term, giving it out as fast as you are taking it, sorry engineers will always outlast every other class bar none.
Into the beating heart of a furnace of Typhoons. Well then if an engineer can outlast normal content then all must be right in the world. :rolleyes:
Into the beating heart of a furnace of Typhoons. Well then if an engineer can outlast normal content then all must be right in the world. :rolleyes:
Hey all I am saying, their survivability, is literally second to none. And can still dish out damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
My engineer laughs at the idea of being useless from behind his 3 quantum mortars, 3 turrets, and orbital barrage.
Also behind his redundant shields behind redundant shields behind a reinforced hull behind an even more reinforced hull. Redundancies for redundancies, and then if that doesn't work a good old Miracle Worker (and maybe even Grace Under Fire!).
Also, the EPS manifold trait is really nice when you want to see 125 in all power subsystems, and you're carrying an [AMP] warp core. Just saying.
Unless you are
A: The 1% that can build a tactical that can cover its own behind and still spit out DPS like a tactical.
B: The .001% that you can wipe out fleets of ships before you before they can see you.
C: Lucky enough to have an engineer or scientist willing to cover your behind.
Even in the DPS loving meta of STO the other classes still have their places.
Unless you are
A: The 1% that can build a tactical that can cover its own behind and still spit out DPS like a tactical.
B: The .001% that you can wipe out fleets of ships before you before they can see you. C: Lucky enough to have an engineer or scientist willing to cover your behind.
Even in the DPS loving meta of STO the other classes still have their places.
Rarely have I ever seen anyone fill the third role. Which is why I chose to fill it myself
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
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Comments
It's because your OP made a direct attack on a whole class and people got defensive, not without reason because Engineers are not useless. The reasons are all over the replies here. The OP had no mention of PvP at all, let alone the space-only 1v1 scenarios that only came about in the later posts, and finally it wasn't posted in the PvP Forums; so all the "off topic" replies you're seeing are probably answers to your OP. It's a common pattern here.
STO Screenshot Archive
^ This.
dam999 - Open a new thread in the PvP forum, title: "Engineer in a Khyzon - viable for 1v1 PvP?" See what they have to say. I have no doubt they'll be brutally honest, but if there's a way to make it work the PvP vets will find it.
Science are the best healers for a premade due to Sensor Scan and Subnucleonic Beam.
Still, a single engineer in a premade is a good pick.
An engineer in an escort makes nearly no sense, due to weapon power overcapping, making Nadion Inversion and Power Transfer useless for the task, not enough spike to punch through shields.
A Science escort makes sense because it can run the best debuffs in game.
Won't bother with PvE as everything works in there. Just DPS it and you're done.
Engineers are really powerful in ground though.
LOL ... ok first off... like others have said L2P .. can't win against a tac officer... right, if the tac officer can get through your shield heals hull heals, then they might can damage you, if your actually waiting through those pvp queue's wow feel sorry for ya, last time i checked was almost an hour between matches... if you came here just to pvp i don't think this is for you. against pve there is no stronger class than an engineer. you just have to play them right they aren't science they aren't tac . your not going to do massive dps, but steady constant damage i can hold my own against 5-9 enemy ships on advance MU. engineer is THE tank and if you build right you can put out impressive dps...
If you can't survice an alpha strike your doing something wrong. Get better shields, use a better ship. If you can't heal hull damage your doing something wrong, change BOFF setup, get a better ship.
I've only died when attacked from multiple sides at the same time. In one on one it's either a tie or I eventually win. It may take me the entire match to kill a single ship, but when he goes down I'm still at 100% hull.
If that's not what you want to do you should not be playing this class.
I've been an Eng. Cpt. for about 2 1/2 years, and its my main Toon, I use. It tooken me awhile to figer out the aspect of that class. I do on an Avg. is about at least 20K DPS in all my cruiser(s), escorts, Warship(s) and Heavy Destroyer(s). I have found out, to able to use its effetely, and get the most out of that Eng. Cpt. Class is to keep its power level High. Its one key it has tooken me awhile to figer out. You also have to alline your Boff's Skill with your Skill Tree, and Doff's selections. (Aspet that most new player are having the most trouble with.) And also setting your power settings aswell. Here is a build I use for instance, for my Galaxy Class.
http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lonniefleetdreadnoughtcruiser_8291
You might not have all the Consoles, or Weapons. But if you'll over look it, you should be able to understand, or general review of what I was doing on that build. You don't have to go with Disruptors. But its just a guide of the Two Peace sets I'm using, to get the most out of that ship as in extra power in the subsystem, and critical chance increase, and severity as well. I also filled in the Skill Tree, as where I put my points towards, and Traits as well. You can click under Description to see what I have listed as for Doff that I am using. I hope this helps in some way.
Way to miss the point. No, it's not very smart for an Engineer to take an Escort into PvP. That is on you for making a bad choice. In PvP, an Engineer's role is tanking/team support. The end. Full stop. If you're unable or unwilling to fill that role, roll a Tac.
As you're aware, PvP is a totally different entity from PvE. However, organized PvP is a whole different entity from normal, queued PvP. There are some absolutely fantastic fleets out there that specialize in PvP. Perhaps you should look them up in the recruitment section and see what they can teach you.
Tac bugs RUN from my engineer in PVP you obviously don't know how to use the class.
The key to engineer DPS is power management. A high power transfer rate combined with your engineer skills and leech guarantees great dps.
Also the defensive nature of an engineer's captain skills allows you to trait more offensively you can easily slot all offensive traits and still be tanky as all hell.
My Engineer Tiberius Kirk from the ka-tet fleet runs advanced queues, successfully pugs korfez and KILLS bug ships run by romulan tacs with SRO boffs.
If you think engineer is useless in pvp I dare you to challenge me I will prove without a shadow of a doubt that a well built engineer is a monster in pvp.
Tiberius Kirk@cronicus666
This.../10char
Glad you understood what I was saying about earlier, about keeping your Power Level high.
My main is an Engineer, i love him but your wrong on all accounts
1. Sub par DPS that will lag way behind Sci's and Tac's
2. Power Creep makes tanking useless in this game. a Tacs doing 60k doesn't need a tank, cause everything is dead in 2 seconds.
3. Yes on ground we are awesome. In space we have no direct debuff abilities. or ways to directly buff our DPS.
You can pretend all you want but this game is about DPS. Tac's get there in the fast lane, Sci's take the long road. Engineers can't find the road. I say this where my Engineer can do 18k in a cruiser. But to do that I have to abandon any and all identity as an Engineer.
Further proof. Engineer console slots are where Universals rule the ship layout. Science and Tac are too valuable.. Engineer consoles are blah.
^This!
People will say, yeah engies are cool, extra power, survivability, bur it all depends on a ship. A tac in a cruiser can tank as well but still deal A LOT more dps.. I mean, what are we talking about. An eng cap has what, miracle worker? Is that a trait that makes him more resistant? Wngineering fleet perhaps? lol, This is all bs. Tac captains have APA, GDF, Tactical fleet..all of which boosts DPS..ENORMOUSLY..
And yeah, this game IS based on DPS.
People who write that they have an eng char write only so they can say something against the only logical conclusion, and that is that an engineer class is TRIBBLE in space. Period.
No one denied that Tacs are the DPS dealers. Yes they are. PewPewPew.
But it is a false statement that Engineers are useless. If they are useless to you, ok. Fine.
But others have them as their main character and it is not really polite to make this class bad for other players.
Engineers are in fact the second highest DPS dealers in game, and CAN!!! defeat a Tactical player based on how good the player has learned the game mechanics.
A good Tactical player can shoot the TRIBBLE out of others, and a miserable Tactical player CAN!! be defeated by lower tier ships too.
It is always based on YOUR own understanding of the game.
Why did you choose an Engineer character anyway?
Because I thought eng would have more capabilities in terms of upgrading ships etc. I didn't really make a research before playing the game, I just created a character and lvled it up. I thought tac would be boring, but then you see amazing dps just by their APA or GDF while you have to use rarest sh..it doffs and best consoles (back then before the delta) to get to 60% of what an average joe tac buckaroo has.
Your logic is flawed. You base your assumptions purely on the idea that you know all and everyone else knows nothing. Because it has been for you, so too must it be for others. This is illogical and to state that you are looking for others to "admit to the only logical conclusion" is an illogical statement in itself.
I grant that in your experience you believe yourself to be right and that is an opinion you are free to share. I even grant that it is your choice to be so devote in your belief of righteousness that you feel the need to tell us about not only your perceived superior intellect, but apparently your perceived superior playing ability as well. The fact that others choose to hold their own beliefs does not make them "stupid" or "ignorant." It simply means that their opinions differ from your own and they are entitled to that belief.
Logically, you can infer that my belief is that you are small person, who feels the need to put others down to make up for your own inadequacies. You are incapable of accepting that others have a different viewpoint than your own and have demonstrated this by refusing to acknowledge that others have provided very compelling arguments to counter your original posting.
Furthermore, you have provided no "proof" of your own to warrant a conclusion that your "logic" is correct. Rather, the only factual information you have provided is a build for our viewing that does not take into account the functionality/mechanics of the game or the capabilities of an Engineer. The remainder is merely a compiling of opinions that have been rejected by the majority of posters in this thread, which I would conclude you find frustrating because it diminishes your position of "being right." The fact that you resort to degrading comments would seem to indicate this and that you cannot provide any substantial proof to support your claims.
If you wish to feel important, I would highly recommend that future posts state that you only wish to have people responding that share your opinion and intend to inflate your ego. All others need not apply and can focus on bantering with others who can express their differences of opinion without resorting to degrading comments.
Live Long and Prosper
It is always wise to "look around' before you actually start in an MMO. You must think, this game is changing, evolving over the years. Things get nerfed, things get buffed. Just come here and ask and you will be helped. And I say this not to prank you, but as a tip for later.
Say, how far are you with your Engineer? Leveld up, all Reputation? Would it work out if you start a new Tactical character?
You know, when I started years ago, I choose the Sci for character. He is somehow the wizard and I felt attracted to it. I wanted to make him more tactical and tried to give him more weaponpower and that stuff. But it didnt work. I never used those Exotic Abilities because I saw now usefullness in them.
Then, last year I accepted that I can't be a DPS dealer and started to work on using the Exotic thingies I have access too. And I must say they are very usefull.
Sure, no DPS dealing but also powerful.
Each class has its own positiv and negativ side.
You should really try to make a second Tactical character if you want.
You can use all Z-Store ships for free on him.
My sole Rommie char is an Engineer. He flies a Fleet Mogai which is set up as a BeamScort. Kinda cool being able to solo a TAC Cube because no matter what it dishes out, he can take it.
I know you feel important for writing such a long reply in a topic not so relevant to anyone but those that somehow feel personally hurt by the premise of the engineer's lack of space combat abilities. You've probably read all of it couple of times just to make sure that everything is well written so you can impress your forum buddies whose opinion you value so much that you probably identify yourself through their thumbs up support. However, argumentative discussion is not for the faint of heart, especially those whose alter ego took over the harsh realities of life in a desperate attempt of self-realisation through what appears to be a seemingly superficial knowledge of a computer game, albeit a good one, but still just a game. Consequently, you've laboured to produce a logical diarrhea which probably reflects your own modus vivendi. Good luck in your future endeavours, you will need it..
In layman's terms:
Tac has more dps than engineer.
Star trek online = dps
tac > engineer
Either way, please stop with the insults. I'm sorry you don't like Engineers, but bashing them won't get you anywhere, except offend those who like them.
STO Screenshot Archive
I like this guy!
Tac has more dps than engineer: In terms of captain abilities, yes.
Star Trek Online = DPS. False; STO is about destroying opponents, not spitting out numbers. It's important to note the difference between the two. The former usually results in a completed mission. The other is just a metric of determining how quickly you do so - NOT what you're actually doing. It's analogous to saying velocity is displacement. It is not - it is only the rate at which an object displaces, per unit time. Significant difference.
Tac > Engineer: False. Tacs perform spike damage more effectively than engis due to captain powers. However, they have a harder time with pressure damage (ie, beams) due to the lack of defensive captain abilities. Ships that focus on pressure damage also have to account for incoming damage over an extended period of time, which a tac may be able to handle, but an engi definitely finds easier. Engis also have EPS-Weed and Nadion Inversion which help with boosting power levels and reducing power drain respectively, which helps a great deal with BFAW cruiser performance.
Tac and Engis are similar, but they are two different breeds. Pushing an Engi to do spike damage is not going to be as effective as pushing an Engi to do pressure damage. Just like ships, the player must select the right career path for the right role. Pushing a square peg in a round hole won't work.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
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The sci ships can heal shields sure but it's the hull that matters to keeps you alive. With their most recent changes and the doff they offered this weekend you should be set as an engineer.
I use batteries heavily in my build because with each it improves the power natively to the rest of the subsystems. Then with the doff from this weekend event, you can get buffs.
I've received a few batteries in my time so that definitely helps keep the power high but I also make it a point to get as many as possible onto my ship in eq and gear slots.
Because of the free Dyson stuff I now have a free shield battery, the red matter capacitor, since he's fed aligned he gets access to the plasma manifold on a ship I bought a long time ago, and the engis own innate ability to increase energy absorption for a brief period. I also added some of the other types of batteries according to my needs, like shields since I am in an escort that's not leveled yet.
You could totally rock out some other energy doff builder types like one of my favorites is a doff that generates shield energy when using energy weapons, or another one that generates aux power when using exotic damage skills if you're in a sci ship that comes in handy. If you like to use the emergency power to subsystem skill you could totally get the doff that improves the healing if you're using EPTAux or the one that gives you a bonus to power in all other subsystems (which I'm totally thinking of doing actually) that way you basically never run out of power and you can increase the effectiveness of your heals.
There's also several traits you can use to improve healing and the Tier 5 skill for 8472 task force is an awesome addition to healing in space.
Ok, so your all about the PVP? Also according to you a high DPS ship should take out a lower DPS ship?
One of my fleet mates is a 30K+ DPS Scimitar, he's a tac. I'm in my 15k DPS Fleet Excelsior...
He should kill me according to you. Yet he doesn't.
I'm still in my 15k fleet excelsior. I'm now up against TWO Scimitar's both of which are ran by tac captains. One of them is a 25k dps ship, the other was a 40k dps ship. According to you, i should have died.
I didnt.
You are probably thinking "ohhhhh well, you didnt kill one of them though did you!?". I got one of them killed...and im a tac, flying what is essentially an engineers ship.
Now you are probably thinking "well!! an engineer couldnt kill you!!!"
Wrong again. Many, MANY times in 1v1 pvp I have went up against a specced out engineer. The 'neer in their choice of ship and me in either my fleet excelsior or the fleet avenger. About 90% of the engineers i came across I simply couldnt kill, and that is even with my romulan character in a scimitar which clocks in at 27k dps with a full dual heavy 5 front cannon load out. All they do is pop off engineering team and they are healed.
Meanwhile the constant PRESSURE damage which the engineer is dishing out will, over 70% of the time...eventually kill me. Almost certainly 99% of the time if I am in my Scimitar in a 1v1 against an engineer...that engineer will almost certainly win in a long protracted battle.
DOS means absolutley NOTHING in PVP. High DPS loaded scimitars are essentially one big huge glass cannon. Once you get past its alpha strike an engineer can rip through that scimitars shielding and take out its hull.
A tac's worst enemy is pressure damage. Spike damage from an alpha from another tac can be healed out with the limited healing an escort can do. PRESSURE damage in a 1v1 environment will eventually take that tac captain down, because the heals wont be able to catch up with the constant pressure damage...and if there is one thing an engineer is good at, its constant pressure damage.
As for the old Jem Bug ship... tractor it and then wail on it. The jem bug ship survives for one reason, its a speed tank, you get that jem bug in a tractor, or anything that will hold it and then wail on it with a broadside of 7 beams, or a 5 dhc load out on a fleet avenger...that bug ship will die.
In PVP yes Engineers can do pressure damage. But their primary role is healing. A sci could do that just as easy in the same ship and provide debuffs that the Engineer can't.
Yawn.... I could not imagine what would be more exciting two engineers in cruisers 1v1 pvping or paint drying.. At least I know in the end that paint will dry can't say the same for 1 engineer beating another.
With Vape builds in PVP no class can tank that. power creep is so high that often an Engineer healer can't heal fast enough to keep up. especially if the other side has one of their own. So what happens is you have two cruisers pestering each other doing presure damage and not healing while 4v4 fight it out.
FYI if the sci's you know can't out damage an engineer I would suggest you have skewed anecdotal experiences. Considering I can consistently crit my TBR for over 10k a tic on my sci.
I have seen tacs tank as well as engineers. I have seen sci's heal as well as engineers. Tacs can use sci powers better than sci's... none of these statements hold true for engineers.
There is no tac captain out there that could of pulled that stunt and lived. Period the end.
Tac captains are good at good spike damage, but damage long term, giving it out as fast as you are taking it, sorry engineers will always outlast every other class bar none.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Into the beating heart of a furnace of Typhoons. Well then if an engineer can outlast normal content then all must be right in the world. :rolleyes:
Hey all I am saying, their survivability, is literally second to none. And can still dish out damage.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Also behind his redundant shields behind redundant shields behind a reinforced hull behind an even more reinforced hull. Redundancies for redundancies, and then if that doesn't work a good old Miracle Worker (and maybe even Grace Under Fire!).
Also, the EPS manifold trait is really nice when you want to see 125 in all power subsystems, and you're carrying an [AMP] warp core. Just saying.
There is an old saying I like.
The DPS of a dead man is zero.
Unless you are
A: The 1% that can build a tactical that can cover its own behind and still spit out DPS like a tactical.
B: The .001% that you can wipe out fleets of ships before you before they can see you.
C: Lucky enough to have an engineer or scientist willing to cover your behind.
Even in the DPS loving meta of STO the other classes still have their places.
Rarely have I ever seen anyone fill the third role. Which is why I chose to fill it myself
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!