This same solution is often put forth for EC inflation, destroying EC when you use the exchange.
Destroying dil gear when you use it is simply applying this same idea to dil, an area where inflation actually matters.
EC inflation is not bad in STO, dil inflation is killer. Something has to be done about this dil cost inflation!
This idea is fair since people opt into it by obtaining this gear, that they then put at risk. Risk and reward scale. If you want to be able to faceroll STFs, you'll have to worry all that much more about dying, because you're risked something to get that ability.
160 is a crime against every hard working STO player.
Have you any conception of the struggles of the man who toils for his dil? Days spent grinding just to get a meagre lockbox key. Don't even think about a fleet ship module.
I put in ~$30-40 when I started the game. Ever since, I've been "toiling for my dil" and exchanging most of it for zen. So many things I want to buy - more doff slots, more shared bank space, ships, ship slots, costumes, maybe more character slots (already have 8) if something interesting happens with Delta (which would then mean more ships/doff slots/boff slots/etc). Yeah, always things to buy for zen. Been doing it for years now.
And yeah, 160 doesn't bother me. It's still pretty darn good compared to most other games.
Right...thats PER CHARACTER. I said I was using TWO alts. A f2p account has 3 character slots...so 1 main, 2 alts. Without the .5 vet, you technically cap out at 1500 zen a month per character. So with two alts, you could get 6000 zen in 2 months under the current exchange rate if you REALLY maximized your dil production on those two alts. My caluclations are quite a bit under that max as I was assuming just casual easy dil to zen farming. And yes that means at 80 dil per zen, your looking at 12000 zen in two months for two alts if you maxed it out (and collecting 16k dil a day isn't that hard). So yeah...what the OP suggest is VERY bad.
3 things.
1st, anyone caring enough to grind Dil will max out on their characters - so that is 8k Dil basic, 0.5k Dil from Fleet mine, and for Veterans, another 0.5k every 2 days, per character. Not your ~6k per character level. I was correcting your numbers.
They will also add more characters, meaning even faster Dil gain. If I could be bothered, I could get 378.98 Zen per day for example. (FYI, I cant, so it is closer to 100 Zen per day)
2nd, my point is as it stands we are already running Zen levels that are massively above your "game will close down if this keeps up" level - have been for long before I got here, back then it was 120 odd Dil per Zen - so, you are wrong on that.
3rd, Cryptic would intervene by increasing Dil supply if it ever did go to 80 Dil per Zen, so it is pointless fretting about it.
Those aren't points, for the first part, and dont merit any sort of rebuttal because they don't have anything to do with the topic at hand.
Well, except for how clearly they prove you're not serious since you can't be bothered to manually test out your "brilliant" ( :rolleyes::rolleyes: ) scheme yourself before asking that everyone else be subjected to its asininity. Ever heard the old phrase "put up or shut up?" Show us how well it would work, and maybe you'll gain some followers.
Yep. In this instance, it means "Come out of your glass house, grab your D10, and show us how much fun this would add and how great it would be."
About 4 or 5 other people (including myself) have pretty much dared him to do this. I doubt he will.
In fact, regardless of what else he posts, the response should be tantamount to either:
"Lead by example and discard you Fleet/Rep/Lobi/Lockbox Gear."
"Put up or shut up."
"Put your money where your mouth is."
"Vids or it didn't happen."
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
There simply isnt enough demand for dil, the supply of dil is outstripping the demand and the surplus is expressed in zen prices twice as high as they should be!
Who among us isnt willing to take on a little bit of suffering for the good of the many?
This proposal will lower the price of zen!
Since you have never had the need to purchase Zen, because you are a lifer, then why do you care?
And that fact makes your second line all the more hilarious.
Spending on the game altogether would disappear overnight.
/thread
Why?
The ships would be fine, it's the stuff on them that might get damaged. Then perhaps you purchase a ship because you like the looks of it or the configuration rather than the console that comes with it.
Then there are aesthetic options like costumes and pets. And Boffs and Doff packs. And service unlocks. All of which would be unaffected by such a mechanic.
STO is not a game where this would be possible to introduce this mechanism.
I playing more than two years , i have end-game gear etc. and still i can be destroyed without any chance to defense by any critical hit, especially undine's lance or borg invisible torpedo. On ground are one shot kills more often.
And increased chance in PvP , are you serious? Regrettably only a few people go to pvp , because there are almost no reward and in addition it requires great skill and equipment , not just the keybind everything on spacebar and simply build on dps. Now would you like to punish the loss of equipment purchased mostly for real money (doublefacepalm)
The ships would be fine, it's the stuff on them that might get damaged. Then perhaps you purchase a ship because you like the looks of it or the configuration rather than the console that comes with it.
Then there are aesthetic options like costumes and pets. And Boffs and Doff packs. And service unlocks. All of which would be unaffected by such a mechanic.
I'm pretty sure all spending won't cease.
Not cease, but purchases on Lobi Store equipment, Fleet equipment, and Reputation equipment would cease. Why risk equipment that you have spent time and/or money on? If such a system was implemented, then the only equipment in use would be mission rewards and the vendor items.
This is , without any doubt whatsoever, the most laughable idea I've ever heard in STO.
There are three logical reasons why it would not work.
1) The purported reason for the item destruction would be as a dilithium sink. Unfortunately, this would not happen. Either the player is so overwhelmingly rich that such a cost would be minimal or the player has so much need for dilithium elsewhere that they would not equip gear with dilithium costs.
The end results would be ... very little. Weaker and newer players would have no choice but to equip sub-standard gear or risk losses they couldn't afford, while people like me with six million DILL and 80,000 ZEN would laugh and replace the stuff without even noticing the cost.
2) The inflation, or deflation, or whatever the fark the OP is claiming is happening, is due to speculators and those who farm dilithium for the intent of selling it for ZEN. None of these types is going to be in PVP. Furthermore, the people most impacted by this would be the LEAST competent players, not those with huge dil reserves.
In fact, these speculators would most probably take advantage of such chaos to create further ... variances ... in ZEN/DIL trade balances.
3) Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the presence of bugs, glitches, vapers, and other issues would result in people losing gear for events out of their control. People would be screaming for fixes that are not cost-economic for Cryptic to implement and would not get done. You would end up driving off most casual players from PVP.
I would suggest perhaps giving more careful thought to economic balance proposals in the future, especially ones that the developers have already rejected repeatedly as counter to their desires and unworkable.
Not cease, but purchases on Lobi Store equipment, Fleet equipment, and Reputation equipment would cease. Why risk equipment that you have spent time and/or money on? If such a system was implemented, then the only equipment in use would be mission rewards and the vendor items.
Zactly! In EvE Online ppl would get mad at you even -- yea, downright hostile -- for buying expensive gear. The idea was (and rightly so) that you'd just lose your fancy stuff, and then rage-quit.
As another person said, this is, without any doubt whatsoever, the most laughable idea I've ever heard in STO.
Not cease, but purchases on Lobi Store equipment, Fleet equipment, and Reputation equipment would cease. Why risk equipment that you have spent time and/or money on? If such a system was implemented, then the only equipment in use would be mission rewards and the vendor items.
Ah I see. That makes more sense.
I wouldn't be sorry to see such OP grind inducing stuff go personally...but I can see plenty of people would.
People would not stop buying lobi gear, people would still crave the advantage it gave.
But to defeat power creep, it's necessary to make more power come with more risks.
This game trivializes death, there is no disincentive at all to die. The 'ship injured' system is trivial.
All the best games have imposed real penalties on death. it's time STO grew up, and we have the opportunity here to also fix dil inflation!
Again: If you wan't this... Impose it on yourself... No need to plague and punish others with something no one wants apart from you and (perhaps) one other.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
It's childishly simple. Nobody else wants your bad idea. Therefore, grab a die, roll it every time your "possible item destruction" conditions are met, and on the proper roll delete your item. Then you get your lurid fantasy of "real consequences," and nobody else has to put up with that e-peen waving rubbish.
But given the frequency of your replying "what does that mean" to the simplest of statements, I think the real comprehension issue in this thread is pretty clear.
Let's say you go into PvP and lose. (I know that's unthinkable in your little world, but try to follow along anyway)
Pick an item. Delete it. Poof, you have your real consequences. And nobody else suffers from this idea.
Or, as an alternate, since "all the best games" have the real consequences you're insisting must be there, go play a game that fits your fantasies. That's why there are different kinds of games out there, so people can play what suits them. But of course some people must try to make every game suit them because it's all about them.
how would that create a dil sink large enough to lower the prize of zen?
It wouldn't, but then there's only one person here stamping their feet about that along with demanding griefer fodder be added to keep prices in line with what they (and apparently only they, given the thread) want.
How would rolling a dice possibly lower the cost of zen, or cause someone I blow up to lose an item, or turn back the tide of power creep, or help the Workingman in any way?
Surely you can see how it confuses me when people type out this gibberish.
Can't believe I'm getting dragged back into this nonsense.
Ok, leaving aside the dil exchange for a moment, please explain why you would want to permanently destroy a piece of your opponents gear in pvp? What possible benefit would you get from that?
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
I am again reminded of a striking and bizarre contradiction.
This very same idea is often met with praise when applied to EC. There are a variety of schemes such as 'exchange fees' or 'taxes' which are proposed to sink EC out of the game by deleting it.
But when this same idea is applied to dil, where the problem of inflation is real, and not imaginary, it is met with only so much shrieking and howling.
Because most people believe EC inflation is a problem. You are the only person who think dil inflation even exists.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Lets say i want zen to cost 100 dil, how can I impose this on mysefl?
They never made any commitment to this type of system so it is not their concern. Also, you would need 3 dice to use it. One for the 10% roll, one for rarity (5-sided dice), and one for the particular item. If you roll a 1 for Common and have no commons, then you have to keep rolling until you roll for something you actually have. Equipped equipment must be included in your third dice roll.
As far as the Dilithium Exchange goes, no one controls it just like no one controls the Economy. I would love to buy thousands of dollars of worthless currency today and make it on par with the US dollar tomorrow, but that is not going to happen. If the rate gets to low then Zen sellers will not sell and if the rate gets too high, then Dilithium sellers will not sell.
You haven't answered my question. How is that a benefit to you. I see how it hurts him, I fail to see how hurting someone else is a gain.
In the specific instance mentioned (PVP) It is a zero-sum game, hurting the other side beneits your side.
i could see systems being damaged and Non-functional tll repaired (Or minimally functional, lose your warp core and you can't get back to repair after all!) But deleting stuff? Sorry but that is not "adding realism" that is Punishing players.
In the specific instance mentioned (PVP) It is a zero-sum game, hurting the other side beneits your side.
i could see systems being damaged and Non-functional tll repaired (Or minimally functional, lose your warp core and you can't get back to repair after all!) But deleting stuff? Sorry but that is not "adding realism" that is Punishing players.
Yes, but he isn't asking for damage or temporary non-function. He asking for a permanent loss for his opponent.
Other then some form of metaphorical teabagging I don't see why someone would want that.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
I would accept a system where ship repairs always cost dil, and dying in PvP had a 100% chance of causing some kind of ship damage.
Why Cost Dilithium? YOu may believe that we need an additional DIL sink, but I'm not convinced (EC's on the other hand, yeah, but that would be a different thread). WHY Is a DIL sink needed? (Hint: Because i say/think so is not a valid argument)
Comments
Go back to ESD Zone Chat Druk youre Drunk.
I put in ~$30-40 when I started the game. Ever since, I've been "toiling for my dil" and exchanging most of it for zen. So many things I want to buy - more doff slots, more shared bank space, ships, ship slots, costumes, maybe more character slots (already have 8) if something interesting happens with Delta (which would then mean more ships/doff slots/boff slots/etc). Yeah, always things to buy for zen. Been doing it for years now.
And yeah, 160 doesn't bother me. It's still pretty darn good compared to most other games.
3 things.
1st, anyone caring enough to grind Dil will max out on their characters - so that is 8k Dil basic, 0.5k Dil from Fleet mine, and for Veterans, another 0.5k every 2 days, per character. Not your ~6k per character level. I was correcting your numbers.
They will also add more characters, meaning even faster Dil gain. If I could be bothered, I could get 378.98 Zen per day for example. (FYI, I cant, so it is closer to 100 Zen per day)
2nd, my point is as it stands we are already running Zen levels that are massively above your "game will close down if this keeps up" level - have been for long before I got here, back then it was 120 odd Dil per Zen - so, you are wrong on that.
3rd, Cryptic would intervene by increasing Dil supply if it ever did go to 80 Dil per Zen, so it is pointless fretting about it.
Well, except for how clearly they prove you're not serious since you can't be bothered to manually test out your "brilliant" ( :rolleyes::rolleyes: ) scheme yourself before asking that everyone else be subjected to its asininity. Ever heard the old phrase "put up or shut up?" Show us how well it would work, and maybe you'll gain some followers.
That's what many of us have spent 13 pages trying to tell you.
Yep. In this instance, it means "Come out of your glass house, grab your D10, and show us how much fun this would add and how great it would be."
About 4 or 5 other people (including myself) have pretty much dared him to do this. I doubt he will.
In fact, regardless of what else he posts, the response should be tantamount to either:
"Lead by example and discard you Fleet/Rep/Lobi/Lockbox Gear."
"Put up or shut up."
"Put your money where your mouth is."
"Vids or it didn't happen."
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Spending on the game altogether would disappear overnight.
/thread
Since you have never had the need to purchase Zen, because you are a lifer, then why do you care?
And that fact makes your second line all the more hilarious.
Why?
The ships would be fine, it's the stuff on them that might get damaged. Then perhaps you purchase a ship because you like the looks of it or the configuration rather than the console that comes with it.
Then there are aesthetic options like costumes and pets. And Boffs and Doff packs. And service unlocks. All of which would be unaffected by such a mechanic.
I'm pretty sure all spending won't cease.
I playing more than two years , i have end-game gear etc. and still i can be destroyed without any chance to defense by any critical hit, especially undine's lance or borg invisible torpedo. On ground are one shot kills more often.
And increased chance in PvP , are you serious? Regrettably only a few people go to pvp , because there are almost no reward and in addition it requires great skill and equipment , not just the keybind everything on spacebar and simply build on dps. Now would you like to punish the loss of equipment purchased mostly for real money (doublefacepalm)
Not cease, but purchases on Lobi Store equipment, Fleet equipment, and Reputation equipment would cease. Why risk equipment that you have spent time and/or money on? If such a system was implemented, then the only equipment in use would be mission rewards and the vendor items.
There are three logical reasons why it would not work.
1) The purported reason for the item destruction would be as a dilithium sink. Unfortunately, this would not happen. Either the player is so overwhelmingly rich that such a cost would be minimal or the player has so much need for dilithium elsewhere that they would not equip gear with dilithium costs.
The end results would be ... very little. Weaker and newer players would have no choice but to equip sub-standard gear or risk losses they couldn't afford, while people like me with six million DILL and 80,000 ZEN would laugh and replace the stuff without even noticing the cost.
2) The inflation, or deflation, or whatever the fark the OP is claiming is happening, is due to speculators and those who farm dilithium for the intent of selling it for ZEN. None of these types is going to be in PVP. Furthermore, the people most impacted by this would be the LEAST competent players, not those with huge dil reserves.
In fact, these speculators would most probably take advantage of such chaos to create further ... variances ... in ZEN/DIL trade balances.
3) Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the presence of bugs, glitches, vapers, and other issues would result in people losing gear for events out of their control. People would be screaming for fixes that are not cost-economic for Cryptic to implement and would not get done. You would end up driving off most casual players from PVP.
I would suggest perhaps giving more careful thought to economic balance proposals in the future, especially ones that the developers have already rejected repeatedly as counter to their desires and unworkable.
Zactly! In EvE Online ppl would get mad at you even -- yea, downright hostile -- for buying expensive gear. The idea was (and rightly so) that you'd just lose your fancy stuff, and then rage-quit.
As another person said, this is, without any doubt whatsoever, the most laughable idea I've ever heard in STO.
Ah I see. That makes more sense.
I wouldn't be sorry to see such OP grind inducing stuff go personally...but I can see plenty of people would.
Thanks for clarifying.
Again: If you wan't this... Impose it on yourself... No need to plague and punish others with something no one wants apart from you and (perhaps) one other.
And yet here you are playing this. What should that tell us, hmmm?
Actually, all the games I've played that have 'real penalties' cater to a smaller, select few.
Please stop conflating your own personal opinion with fact. It makes you look either disingenuous or unable to discern between fantasy and reality.
Fantasy: You have a wonderful well developed idea that will improve the game and also benefit you and your playstyle.
Reality: You have an idea that will benefit you, but that everyone else things is only slightly less useful than skinny dipping in fresh lava.
It means, that if you can't understand simple english, you probably should not use forums.
It's childishly simple. Nobody else wants your bad idea. Therefore, grab a die, roll it every time your "possible item destruction" conditions are met, and on the proper roll delete your item. Then you get your lurid fantasy of "real consequences," and nobody else has to put up with that e-peen waving rubbish.
But given the frequency of your replying "what does that mean" to the simplest of statements, I think the real comprehension issue in this thread is pretty clear.
It's very obvious why you're confused.
Let's say you go into PvP and lose. (I know that's unthinkable in your little world, but try to follow along anyway)
Pick an item. Delete it. Poof, you have your real consequences. And nobody else suffers from this idea.
Or, as an alternate, since "all the best games" have the real consequences you're insisting must be there, go play a game that fits your fantasies. That's why there are different kinds of games out there, so people can play what suits them. But of course some people must try to make every game suit them because it's all about them.
At least you know how your posts make the rest of us feel, I suppose.
I mean really, How often DO we see such acute cases of Cranial Rectal Insertion Syndrome?
It wouldn't, but then there's only one person here stamping their feet about that along with demanding griefer fodder be added to keep prices in line with what they (and apparently only they, given the thread) want.
Very, very good point. Moving along.
Can't believe I'm getting dragged back into this nonsense.
Ok, leaving aside the dil exchange for a moment, please explain why you would want to permanently destroy a piece of your opponents gear in pvp? What possible benefit would you get from that?
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Because most people believe EC inflation is a problem. You are the only person who think dil inflation even exists.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Really? You don't know how to right-click?
You wan't to lower prices on the dil-exchange yet you don't know how to use and play it?
You shouldn just stay away from the forums, you should stay away from STO.
They never made any commitment to this type of system so it is not their concern. Also, you would need 3 dice to use it. One for the 10% roll, one for rarity (5-sided dice), and one for the particular item. If you roll a 1 for Common and have no commons, then you have to keep rolling until you roll for something you actually have. Equipped equipment must be included in your third dice roll.
As far as the Dilithium Exchange goes, no one controls it just like no one controls the Economy. I would love to buy thousands of dollars of worthless currency today and make it on par with the US dollar tomorrow, but that is not going to happen. If the rate gets to low then Zen sellers will not sell and if the rate gets too high, then Dilithium sellers will not sell.
You haven't answered my question. How is that a benefit to you. I see how it hurts him, I fail to see how hurting someone else is a gain.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
In the specific instance mentioned (PVP) It is a zero-sum game, hurting the other side beneits your side.
i could see systems being damaged and Non-functional tll repaired (Or minimally functional, lose your warp core and you can't get back to repair after all!) But deleting stuff? Sorry but that is not "adding realism" that is Punishing players.
Yes, but he isn't asking for damage or temporary non-function. He asking for a permanent loss for his opponent.
Other then some form of metaphorical teabagging I don't see why someone would want that.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Why Cost Dilithium? YOu may believe that we need an additional DIL sink, but I'm not convinced (EC's on the other hand, yeah, but that would be a different thread). WHY Is a DIL sink needed? (Hint: Because i say/think so is not a valid argument)