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Item Destruction - the feature the game desperately needs.

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  • peetapipmacpeetapipmac Member Posts: 2,131 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I will say this one last time repetitiveepic, then I am done. We do not need any further dilithium sinks. There are more then enough as it is.


    You are complaining that zen cost too much dilithium, so you are proposing to cost people thousands (if not millions) of zen on the off change you can save a little dilithium on the exchange.


    Most of us don't even care that the price of the exchange is what it is. Infact you are the only one who thinks it it high.



    Also I find the fact that you consider other people losing gear is a "reward" for you quite frankly despicable.


    I hope you are trying to grief people with this thread, because otherwise I think you may have some real issues you need to work out.
    It's not my fault if you feel trolled by my Disco ball... Sorry'boutit.



    R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I will tell you about by confusion:

    1) I cannot provide video proof for why this is needed. It is needed for the reasons I wrote down, and it is unclear to me how any video could 'prove' my arguments. if I could provide video proof for you, I would do it in a heartbeat.

    2) A video would not demonstrate my dedication in a different way than posting about it would. I don't believe I could produce any video which would demonstrate my dedication to seeing this beneficial change implemented any better than the posts I've made have. Not being a skilled videographer, I suspect any video I produced would do a worse job.

    Actions speak louder than words. Even if most of us don't agree with your beliefs, some of us would respect you for acting on your beliefs. It shows you are actually serious about this. Without action to back it up, then you are just emitting hot air, figuratively speaking.
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  • warehouse67warehouse67 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Quick query?

    If you aim to reduce the price of Zen, and also reduce the amount of dilithium people have to buy Zen, what do you actually accomplish?.
  • john98837john98837 Member Posts: 761 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Anyone who wonders why so many in this game hate PvPers this thread would be a great example. Has to be one of the single dumbest ideas I have seen, go play Eve and leave us alone.
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  • warehouse67warehouse67 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The only way to reduce the prize of zen is to reduce the amount of dil people have to spend on zen.

    Some people will prioritize things differently. It is that great multitude of non-money spenders that I speak for, those people whose only way to get zen is to grind dil.

    The workingman.
    So, say I have 1000 dilithium and Zen is a hypothetical 100 dil. I am sad because I cannot afford to buy much zen.

    Your proposal manages to lower zen to let's say 50 dil but replacing all my lost equipment means I now have just 500 dil left!. Lower Zen prices, hooray!.

    If you lower both zen price and available dilithium, you make no difference to the amount of zen I can buy. You could even make it harder for people to afford zen, especially these who don't have very good equipment and are therefore likely to be destroyed more often.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,882 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Yes...because every other mmo you risk losing your items if you die :rolleyes:
    Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
  • anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Seriously... Time to tug that epeen back in... Your suggestion has been evaluated and deemed uninteresting...

    And yes... That is how it is...

    Every post in here except yours is against it, just like it was in the other threads.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    repetitiveeppic - normally you have good ideas. Or at least good in character ideas.

    This isn't one of them.
  • gardatgardat Member Posts: 280 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I think the OP doesn't go far enough.

    If your ship explodes its just GONE. You get a free courtesy shuttle back at HQ and you can't respawn in the STF/PVP match.

    Want a new ship? Go grind some dilithium or pay zen.
    486 DX2/66Mhz, 4MB SD-RAM, 16KB L-1 cache, 120MB HDD, 3.5" FDD, 2x CD-ROM, 8-Bit Soundblaster Pro, IBM Model M PS/2 keyboard, Microsoft trackball mouse, 256KB S3 graphics chip, 14" VGA CRT monitor, MS-DOS 6.22
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    gardat wrote: »
    I think the OP doesn't go far enough.

    If your ship explodes its just GONE. You get a free courtesy shuttle back at HQ and you can't respawn in the STF/PVP match.

    Want a new ship? Go grind some dilithium or pay zen.

    This is STO, not EVE.
  • seazombie64seazombie64 Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I'm not completely against his concept, just the implementation. What if said random item was "greyed out" and unusable until you go to a starbase to get it fixed? It wouldn't cost anything except time, and might make people think about playing more strategically.
  • coupaholiccoupaholic Member Posts: 2,188 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I see merit in the idea myself.

    It even has a few advantages. Power creep for instance, would disappear overnight if players had to equip ships and such with potential loss in mind. Crafting would become valuable as a means to replace the losses and a good method of earning EC.

    The role of tank, healer and support would be critical in teams and on maps. They would go from pointlessness to being relevant.

    And lastly. 10% isn't really that much is it? Of course 1% would be enough to get the masses panicking. I suppose I do understand everyone else's point of view, but since I already avoid such grinds like the plague I can't say I fully appreciate the perspective.

    Perhaps as an alternative then we can look at the injuries system. Have them affect specific slotted equipment. Say a minor injury nerfs a little DPS, a major injury nullifies a modifier and a critical injury nullifies all mods and halfs all stats. The console/weapon/whatever still would exist and can be fixed but only at a shipyard, and those consumables would only be a temporary fix with a timer or something.

    That could be a good compromise, and could at least convince some players not to be suicidal.
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  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Cloaked projectile weaponry? Gee, I wonder what bone headed species would invent such a thing?

    *looks at Romulans*

    Puts away cloaked plasma cannon. "What?"

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    gardat wrote: »
    I think the OP doesn't go far enough.

    If your ship explodes its just GONE. You get a free courtesy shuttle back at HQ and you can't respawn in the STF/PVP match.

    Want a new ship? Go grind some dilithium or pay zen.

    Two thoughts. First there is already damage in elite modes that lower abilities and require repairs. To delete the items in question will not induce people into pvp it will drive more people away.
    Now if there is a hardcore or insanity mode ever put in. It should have destroyed equipment, death of bridge officers, and possible perm death of your captain. Captain death will include a movie scene of a torpedo lowered onto a launch track with the ufp flag on. Sign of an assemblage folding the flag and the torpedo launched.
    Of course a bonfire funeral scene for kdf players. Because if the stakes are that high, you should have the honour of the closure.

    I just do not see it happening.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • woodwhitywoodwhity Member Posts: 2,636 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    After a month cryptic would ask "why are there no players on the servers"^^

    Could be something for a nightmare-mode, if (IF) the rewards are good enough.
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  • dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Seriously, just stop it.

    We don't need any additional dil sinks! I'm spending 64.000 Dil on my fleets holdings every single day! Thats enough if you were aksing me. We just even got a new dil sink - crafting.

    Why do you even care about the zen prices? On one of the first pages you said, that you as a lifetimer have enough zen to purchase anything you want. I assume you're one of those guys who are sitting on billions of unrefined Dil because they were massively using that dil exploit back in those days. And the only thing you care for now is getting as much zen as possible.

    But, to be honest, the zen price is still fine. I remember times when the price was almost at 400 Dil per Zen ;)
  • ghyudtghyudt Member Posts: 1,112 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    No, nononononono. Just, no. This isn't fracking eve online. And that's a good thing. Getting ranked by other players here is bad enough, but losing an item because of it is just stupid. And if an NPC pulls some weird **** and one shots you (unimatrix lance) then that's even worse.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    1)
    4) Having the exchange rate at 80 is a BAD thing. Like will KILL THIS GAME BAD. There is a way to get 3750 zen in 2 months at the current rate. Imagine if you get DOUBLE that. 75 bucks of zen every two months...and that assumes just TWO alts doing this. NOBODY will buy zen. Not when buying zen to fuel dil sinks will net you half of what it does now. Nobody buys zen, this game DIES. And honestly 160 is too low. It's unhealthy low. Anything more then being able to farm out 10 bucks a month is low. More then 15 is unhealthy low. More then 25 and your looking at game will close down if this keeps up range.

    Your numbers are very, very badly out - A single character, maxing the 8 plus .5k Dil Cap per day, will gain 1624.2 Zen per month.



    In other words, it is a good thing you are wrong, if STO would actually close down at these rates which it wont.
  • ussinterceptussintercept Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    johngazman wrote: »
    Because what you're proposing won't immediately favor certain players with certain high-DPS builds at all, and therefore widen the gulf that already exists between PvPers and non-PvPers.

    Possibly the worst idea i've heard all week. And this has been a week of bad ideas for STO.

    If you read his posts in another thread youd understand it has nothing to do with PvP.

    Hes cheap and refuses to spend any of his money on the game. He seeks to force Zen into a downward spiral on the Dilithium Exchange. This way he can easily access Zen at a far cheaper price then what its going for on the Exchange now.
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  • ussinterceptussintercept Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I struggle to understand the opposition to this.

    This same solution is often put forth for EC inflation, destroying EC when you use the exchange.

    Destroying dil gear when you use it is simply applying this same idea to dil, an area where inflation actually matters.

    EC inflation is not bad in STO, dil inflation is killer. Something has to be done about this dil cost inflation!

    This idea is fair since people opt into it by obtaining this gear, that they then put at risk. Risk and reward scale. If you want to be able to faceroll STFs, you'll have to worry all that much more about dying, because you're risked something to get that ability.

    Go back to ESD Zone Chat Druk youre Drunk.
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    160 is a crime against every hard working STO player.

    Have you any conception of the struggles of the man who toils for his dil? Days spent grinding just to get a meagre lockbox key. Don't even think about a fleet ship module.

    I put in ~$30-40 when I started the game. Ever since, I've been "toiling for my dil" and exchanging most of it for zen. So many things I want to buy - more doff slots, more shared bank space, ships, ship slots, costumes, maybe more character slots (already have 8) if something interesting happens with Delta (which would then mean more ships/doff slots/boff slots/etc). Yeah, always things to buy for zen. Been doing it for years now.


    And yeah, 160 doesn't bother me. It's still pretty darn good compared to most other games.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Right...thats PER CHARACTER. I said I was using TWO alts. A f2p account has 3 character slots...so 1 main, 2 alts. Without the .5 vet, you technically cap out at 1500 zen a month per character. So with two alts, you could get 6000 zen in 2 months under the current exchange rate if you REALLY maximized your dil production on those two alts. My caluclations are quite a bit under that max as I was assuming just casual easy dil to zen farming. And yes that means at 80 dil per zen, your looking at 12000 zen in two months for two alts if you maxed it out (and collecting 16k dil a day isn't that hard). So yeah...what the OP suggest is VERY bad.

    3 things.

    1st, anyone caring enough to grind Dil will max out on their characters - so that is 8k Dil basic, 0.5k Dil from Fleet mine, and for Veterans, another 0.5k every 2 days, per character. Not your ~6k per character level. I was correcting your numbers.

    They will also add more characters, meaning even faster Dil gain. If I could be bothered, I could get 378.98 Zen per day for example. (FYI, I cant, so it is closer to 100 Zen per day)


    2nd, my point is as it stands we are already running Zen levels that are massively above your "game will close down if this keeps up" level - have been for long before I got here, back then it was 120 odd Dil per Zen - so, you are wrong on that.


    3rd, Cryptic would intervene by increasing Dil supply if it ever did go to 80 Dil per Zen, so it is pointless fretting about it.
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