So...your one of those people who "help" the working man by taxing us with things we did not ask for or want so you can get rich faster...okay. Your not being altruistic, your being a bloody parasite. What you propose will HURT the working man as you like to call them. You wanna help them? Buy a ton of master keys with your zen that your swimming in and give them to the working man players. So once again, put up or shut up.
The ethical permissibility of item destruction comes from the plain fact that while it harms a little, it creates a global good that far exceeds the small harm.
So inserting a chip in every person that creates an electrical shock every time that someone tries to cause some type of harm to other people is ethically permissible since it creates a global good that far exceeds the small amount of harm it causes? Sorry, but the means never justify the ends.
Global good is too abstract and can't be agreed upon. What others might consider to be the global good, others might find oppressive. The Borg Collective would be for the global good since it removes hunger, crime, racism, and war while giving a sense of belonging, but most of us would not consider it for the global good due to its oppressive nature.
I dont want the game to be a challenge for me, I want a global solution to the problem of zen being overpriced.
Item destruction does not work for this game, neither address the issues you're outlining. There are other alternatives. Also, Cryptic has never failed us at introducing new dil sinks every new release.
My concerns are altruistic. I myself have and can generate huge amounts of dil because I am such a productive player, but it isn't me I'm worried about, I am covered in gravy, I will be fine one way or another.
My motives are altruistic, I am seeking global solutions for global problems, a problem that affects the Workingman, not people like me.
You should read the definition of a word before using it.
Once again, I dont know how new you are to STO, but in the era of high dil demand the price of zen was HALF of what it is now.
How new are you to STO? 1 year is nothing, DIL/Zen used to be 450:1. The current rate is still cheap to long time players. Only new players and/or greedy players think the DIL/Zen rate is too high. Nothing you proposed will help PvP or the DIL/Zen rate.
You should have proposed a PvP leaderboard or actual rewards for PvP. Neverwinter has both of those plus a PvP Campaign(Reputation), so there's more reason to PvP. I am betting more people would be aggreable to those ideas.
You should have proposed a PvP leaderboard or actual rewards for PvP. Neverwinter has both of those plus a PvP Campaign(Reputation), so there's more reason to PvP. I am betting more people would be aggreable to those ideas.
Don't PvP, but Neverwinter appears to have the better PvP system compared to STO. The only PvE rewards in the PvP Campaign is a costume set and title as far as I recall so the rewards in a PvP Reputation should be mostly confined to PvP rewards.
Right now PvP is a hollow, ghastly, empty shell because there is no *point* to it
GOOD.
Honestly, people who have attitudes like yours (winning is everything, but actually harming the other player is even better!) are a big reason why I avoid pvp like the plague. Trash-talkers, bullies, griefers, testosterone-poisoned jockos, borderline-sociopaths.... yeah, perfectly happy to let them stew in their own sewer. The problem is when PvE games make the mistake of adding a lousy pvp mini-game on the side, so that the PvE players have to suffer through hearing these idiots in their chat and on their forums.
(The other big reason, of course, is that I don't really care about competing with other players. As long as I'm enjoying myself, and have ways to improve my characters? I don't really care that other people are doing it faster or better. /shrug)
You can't win anything doing it. No matter what happens in pvp, you can never get MORE.
Adding these high stakes would add excitement to it, it would give people the chance, for the first time in STO, to get MORE by doing PvP.
While, yes, in a relative sense, you end up with more by destroying other people's things.... you still don't really have "more". You have the same number of things, you just made others fall behind you.
And the whole "I can get ahead by TRIBBLE others" viewpoint is disgusting.
For another, the need for dil to replace destroyed items.
Come on dude, you are smarter than that - STO relies on a balance of grinding F2Pers and people spending real money, for many reasons. (Reasons that I cannot be bothered due to illness to list.)
Ill keep it short - You have not considered the full effects of your proposal. Come back when you have.
Education is SO vital. people need to learn how to do things!
Many of the best dil sources are ground content, for example. There is also doffing for dil, by obtaining contraband and turning it in. Doffing for dil requires no specialized equipment of any kind at all.
You need time to grind dilithium. Some people don't have the time to grind dilithium on multiple characters every day due to work, family, friends, and other hobbies.
You need time to grind dilithium. Some people don't have the time to grind dilithium on multiple characters every day due to work, family, friends, and other hobbies.
You could have simplified that:
You need time to grind dilithium. Some people don't have the time to grind dilithium on multiple characters every day, because they have a life.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
Yea... I am about fed up with the lack of reason here.
4 years ago, people wanted a death-penalty, like the one the OP suggested in STO.
Cryptic came up with the elite system, and said "That's what you are going to get... We are not doing the perma death system, or anything like it.
Deal with it or don't, this is what you are getting".
Sorry you don't understand this OP... I really am...
Book closed.
Pretty much this. Now yes, I've played many online games that had perma death, item loss etc and I still enjoy them. But STO isn't designed for the hard core gamer. It's designed for the casual gamer to have fun and enjoy. Losing something you spent months on ultimately isn't fun.
Now for the mod side of things - Lets keep any trolling down to a 0 roar and if you want to comment then by all means do but constructively not the other way around.
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Sounds like your entire idea in a nutshell. It won't improve PvP, and only a fool would think it might somehow reduce Dil prices when it, by destroying "hard work," would raise them.
Then I suggest taking a basic course in economics and starting over with a concept that might actually do what you claim you want, as opposed to this idea which would accomplish (if anything at all) the exact opposite.
I withdrew my amendment about PvP some pages back because of the excessive controversy.
We must not let the perfect become enemy of the good!
I have already admitted there is some harm in item destruction, but what makes it different from EC destruction is that some larger good comes about because of it.
EC destruction is 100% harmful and not mitigated to even a slight degree by any good outcome for anyone.
Item destruction is a bonanza for the workingman, sharply reducing the cost of zen and his toils to obtain it.
Some are not willing to risk small personal sacrifices for the large greater good. I am not one of those people.
Item destruction is harmful to the workingman and if I (a workingman) want zen I will save up some money and buy some zen. There are many things I can acquire with dilithuim and I am therefore not interested in the dilithium exchange.
See, this is why i am interested in GLOBAL solutions, not the solution tailor made to one poster or another.
If that was true you would have changed your opinion by now.
Nearly everyone on this thread has told you that this is a bad idea that will hurt them and others. If you are looking to help the minority then simply stop. Stop.
And please stop working under the assumption that the exchange is high right now. It's significantly lower then it has been for the majority of the games life. This 80 dil per zen amount you keep quoting was a one time aberration and is not where the exchange should be.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Even if 80 isnt optimum, something well below 159 is.
The price of zen is TOO DARN HIGH.
People are struggling, the game cries out for new sinks to lower that rate!
The price of Zen is too high? The difference between 120 and 160 is around 16 cents a day for the average player. If the average player is feeling the loss of 16 cents over an hour or two of playing, well to put it simply, they have bigger problems in life then the Zen Exchange.
STO is about my Liberated Borg Federation Captain with his Breen 1st Officer, Jem'Hadar Tactical Officer, Liberated Borg Engineering Officer, Android Ops Officer, Photonic Science Officer, Gorn Science Officer, and Reman Medical Officer jumping into their Jem'Hadar Carrier and flying off to do missions for the new Romulan Empire. But for some players allowing a T5 Connie to be used breaks the canon in the game.
See, this is why i am interested in GLOBAL solutions, not the solution tailor made to one poster or another.
With all due respect, this is not a global solution, or any solution for that matter, what you are proposing is an unnecessary source of frustration. As for dilithium sinks, as mentioned many times previously, there are plenty especially for ship collectors and I write that from personal experience.
Comments
You have yet to establish that Zen is overpriced.
The Big lie ins't working for you, try another tactic to push your ideology.
Well he is a Ferengi after all.
So inserting a chip in every person that creates an electrical shock every time that someone tries to cause some type of harm to other people is ethically permissible since it creates a global good that far exceeds the small amount of harm it causes? Sorry, but the means never justify the ends.
Global good is too abstract and can't be agreed upon. What others might consider to be the global good, others might find oppressive. The Borg Collective would be for the global good since it removes hunger, crime, racism, and war while giving a sense of belonging, but most of us would not consider it for the global good due to its oppressive nature.
Item destruction does not work for this game, neither address the issues you're outlining. There are other alternatives. Also, Cryptic has never failed us at introducing new dil sinks every new release.
They will take care of you.
STO Screenshot Archive
You should read the definition of a word before using it.
You gaining more is not Altruistic.
How new are you to STO? 1 year is nothing, DIL/Zen used to be 450:1. The current rate is still cheap to long time players. Only new players and/or greedy players think the DIL/Zen rate is too high. Nothing you proposed will help PvP or the DIL/Zen rate.
You should have proposed a PvP leaderboard or actual rewards for PvP. Neverwinter has both of those plus a PvP Campaign(Reputation), so there's more reason to PvP. I am betting more people would be aggreable to those ideas.
Don't PvP, but Neverwinter appears to have the better PvP system compared to STO. The only PvE rewards in the PvP Campaign is a costume set and title as far as I recall so the rewards in a PvP Reputation should be mostly confined to PvP rewards.
GOOD.
Honestly, people who have attitudes like yours (winning is everything, but actually harming the other player is even better!) are a big reason why I avoid pvp like the plague. Trash-talkers, bullies, griefers, testosterone-poisoned jockos, borderline-sociopaths.... yeah, perfectly happy to let them stew in their own sewer. The problem is when PvE games make the mistake of adding a lousy pvp mini-game on the side, so that the PvE players have to suffer through hearing these idiots in their chat and on their forums.
(The other big reason, of course, is that I don't really care about competing with other players. As long as I'm enjoying myself, and have ways to improve my characters? I don't really care that other people are doing it faster or better. /shrug)
While, yes, in a relative sense, you end up with more by destroying other people's things.... you still don't really have "more". You have the same number of things, you just made others fall behind you.
And the whole "I can get ahead by TRIBBLE others" viewpoint is disgusting.
Carry on...SMH
wow, you really ARE a politician!
Sanctimonoius, deceptive and generally out of touch with reality where it conflicts with your precious ideology.
You'd be PERFECT in congress.
Come on dude, you are smarter than that - STO relies on a balance of grinding F2Pers and people spending real money, for many reasons. (Reasons that I cannot be bothered due to illness to list.)
Ill keep it short - You have not considered the full effects of your proposal. Come back when you have.
ooh, Delusional too!!
:cool:
You need time to grind dilithium. Some people don't have the time to grind dilithium on multiple characters every day due to work, family, friends, and other hobbies.
You could have simplified that:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
That was good, tell another.:D
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
I am not sorry about any post. Not sure why you said "too."
I would, but I'd have to quote the whole thread.:rolleyes:
(and no not sorry for this one either)
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
as for destructible items.. so long as you don't lose them permanently then yeah its an okay idea but not for PvE.. only PvP would suit this imo
Well Hopefully only the OP's (for the most part)?
I'd need the rest for context.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
4 years ago, people wanted a death-penalty, like the one the OP suggested in STO.
Cryptic came up with the elite system, and said "That's what you are going to get... We are not doing the perma death system, or anything like it.
Deal with it or don't, this is what you are getting".
Sorry you don't understand this OP... I really am...
Book closed.
Pretty much this. Now yes, I've played many online games that had perma death, item loss etc and I still enjoy them. But STO isn't designed for the hard core gamer. It's designed for the casual gamer to have fun and enjoy. Losing something you spent months on ultimately isn't fun.
Now for the mod side of things - Lets keep any trolling down to a 0 roar and if you want to comment then by all means do but constructively not the other way around.
Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker.
Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Read the updated sig.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
I think I get this.
You're roleplaying a Ferengi playing STO. Right? It's actually pretty brilliant.
I know you can't let on, just blink twice for yes.
Sounds like your entire idea in a nutshell. It won't improve PvP, and only a fool would think it might somehow reduce Dil prices when it, by destroying "hard work," would raise them.
Then I suggest taking a basic course in economics and starting over with a concept that might actually do what you claim you want, as opposed to this idea which would accomplish (if anything at all) the exact opposite.
That's giving this comic relief thread far more credit than it deserves.
Item destruction is harmful to the workingman and if I (a workingman) want zen I will save up some money and buy some zen. There are many things I can acquire with dilithuim and I am therefore not interested in the dilithium exchange.
If that was true you would have changed your opinion by now.
Nearly everyone on this thread has told you that this is a bad idea that will hurt them and others. If you are looking to help the minority then simply stop. Stop.
And please stop working under the assumption that the exchange is high right now. It's significantly lower then it has been for the majority of the games life. This 80 dil per zen amount you keep quoting was a one time aberration and is not where the exchange should be.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Which people? Show me who is struggling? Show me one person other then you who even cares that the exchange is at 159.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
With all due respect, this is not a global solution, or any solution for that matter, what you are proposing is an unnecessary source of frustration. As for dilithium sinks, as mentioned many times previously, there are plenty especially for ship collectors and I write that from personal experience.