If the OP wants a 10% chance of items being destroyed, then go get a 10-sided die and choose a number. If it lands on that number then delete a random item off your ships inventory, everytime you are killed.
We have yet to see the OP post a rebutal to these points
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
1. The vast majority of players, including a decent % of pvper's, have no interest at all in old-style, TRIBBLE "inflict real harm on other players" vicious/griefing pvp.
2. Many players don't consider the exchange going from 80 to 150 to be the disaster that you imagine it to be. (Heck, I remember when I started playing the game, the exchange was around 130 and going down, and the forums were full of people screaming that The Economy Is Ruined! because the rate wasn't 300+ any more.)
So, yeah. Not a lot of takers for your nutty idea. Sorry.
(Honestly, I find the complaints about the exchange rate being "so high" at 160 to be hilarious. The last time I stopped playing Neverwinter, the new expansion had hit, and the exchange had been pegged at the max value of 500. For weeks. With a 4 million zen backlog of Buy offers.)
Once again, I dont know how new you are to STO, but in the era of high dil demand the price of zen was HALF of what it is now.
The fleet dil sinks are full, the rep dil sinks are full, the surplus of dil piles up ever higher, driving up with it the price of zen.
While individuals have always desired dil for things for themselves, this demand used to be supplemented by the demands of many fleets for millions and millions of dil.
These sinks are full now, the era of fleet building is long past. It is time for a new dil sink to get things back the way they should be.
I've been playing since the game went f2p. And I have seen the exchange at least a 100 higher then it is now. I'm sure has probably been even higher then that since I started playing. I personally don't pay enough attention to the exchange price to say when or by how much.
I can tell you right now that the fleet dil sinks are most certainly not full, not for my fleets or most of the fleets I know. Maybe yours is, (and bully for you if that is the case) but a huge amount of fleets are still very much building themselves up and are hungry for dil. What you propose would cripple them.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Those aren't points, for the first part, and dont merit any sort of rebuttal because they don't have anything to do with the topic at hand.
They have every bit to do with the topic. The topic is that there should be a chance to have an item destroyed when a player is killed. You claim it is needed. Provide video proof of how "needed" it is and how much you are dedicated to seeing this feature implemented.
Lead by example. Prove to us you are not trolling. Post a video where you get the destroyed and you discard a piece of Rep gear, or Fleet gear. Put your money where your mouth is.
How the Devs see Star Trek, apparently:
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
Lead by example. Prove to us you are not trolling. Post a video where you get the destroyed and you discard a piece of Rep gear, or Fleet gear. Put your money where your mouth is.
I second this.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
If the OP wants a 10% chance of items being destroyed, then go get a 10-sided die and choose a number. If it lands on that number then delete a random item off your ships inventory, everytime you are killed.
There simply isnt enough demand for dil, the supply of dil is outstripping the demand and the surplus is expressed in zen prices twice as high as they should be!
Who among us isnt willing to take on a little bit of suffering for the good of the many?
This proposal will lower the price of zen!
Then you should lead by example grab you 10 sided die if its a "5" roll select a piece of rep gear can just start at deflector and work your way down and if you get a "10" you suffered a catastorphic failure ship and all hands lost so you delete that character and move on to your next. Just think you will be foraging a new path in your game play. 3 successive "10" rolls you can delete your account to show us how serious you are about this.
At the end of the day most of the players would not like such a change and if the casuals stop buying zen what would that do for your dilith to zen conversion rates.
That's similar to FFXIV, if your armor with uber stats hits 0 durability, you lose the bonus stations and are stuck with a basic set.... It's what we have, it's called ship injuries and it works.
I do not grind and grind and grind for my fleet gear to be destroyed. Ship injuries that can affect things like damage, dps, defense, shield recovery etc. Which is why you always carry repair equipment on you.
There's no reason to change what we have.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Why did prices for zen used to be 100 hider than they were now?
Because there was almost no demand for dil. Because dil wasnt sinked out by anything.
As I said, when I started playing, the forums were full of people moaning that the rate wasn't 300 anymore, that it was "far too low" at 130. Why were they making these complaints? Because they were the Big Money Players who bought zen with real cash, exchanged it for vast piles of Dil, and shoved all that dil into the huge Fleet dil sinks.
So, no.... there were Dil sinks back when the rate was higher. And they've just added more and more sinks since then (like the whole rep system, and many more Fleet things.
Basic fact of the matter is that 80 was an unnaturally low exchange rate. It was not the standard of what should always be - the nature of the exchange is that it shifts. And 160 is still damn low.
I will say this one last time repetitiveepic, then I am done. We do not need any further dilithium sinks. There are more then enough as it is.
You are complaining that zen cost too much dilithium, so you are proposing to cost people thousands (if not millions) of zen on the off change you can save a little dilithium on the exchange.
Most of us don't even care that the price of the exchange is what it is. Infact you are the only one who thinks it it high.
Also I find the fact that you consider other people losing gear is a "reward" for you quite frankly despicable.
I hope you are trying to grief people with this thread, because otherwise I think you may have some real issues you need to work out.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
1) I cannot provide video proof for why this is needed. It is needed for the reasons I wrote down, and it is unclear to me how any video could 'prove' my arguments. if I could provide video proof for you, I would do it in a heartbeat.
2) A video would not demonstrate my dedication in a different way than posting about it would. I don't believe I could produce any video which would demonstrate my dedication to seeing this beneficial change implemented any better than the posts I've made have. Not being a skilled videographer, I suspect any video I produced would do a worse job.
Actions speak louder than words. Even if most of us don't agree with your beliefs, some of us would respect you for acting on your beliefs. It shows you are actually serious about this. Without action to back it up, then you are just emitting hot air, figuratively speaking.
Anyone who wonders why so many in this game hate PvPers this thread would be a great example. Has to be one of the single dumbest ideas I have seen, go play Eve and leave us alone.
The only way to reduce the prize of zen is to reduce the amount of dil people have to spend on zen.
Some people will prioritize things differently. It is that great multitude of non-money spenders that I speak for, those people whose only way to get zen is to grind dil.
The workingman.
So, say I have 1000 dilithium and Zen is a hypothetical 100 dil. I am sad because I cannot afford to buy much zen.
Your proposal manages to lower zen to let's say 50 dil but replacing all my lost equipment means I now have just 500 dil left!. Lower Zen prices, hooray!.
If you lower both zen price and available dilithium, you make no difference to the amount of zen I can buy. You could even make it harder for people to afford zen, especially these who don't have very good equipment and are therefore likely to be destroyed more often.
I'm not completely against his concept, just the implementation. What if said random item was "greyed out" and unusable until you go to a starbase to get it fixed? It wouldn't cost anything except time, and might make people think about playing more strategically.
It even has a few advantages. Power creep for instance, would disappear overnight if players had to equip ships and such with potential loss in mind. Crafting would become valuable as a means to replace the losses and a good method of earning EC.
The role of tank, healer and support would be critical in teams and on maps. They would go from pointlessness to being relevant.
And lastly. 10% isn't really that much is it? Of course 1% would be enough to get the masses panicking. I suppose I do understand everyone else's point of view, but since I already avoid such grinds like the plague I can't say I fully appreciate the perspective.
Perhaps as an alternative then we can look at the injuries system. Have them affect specific slotted equipment. Say a minor injury nerfs a little DPS, a major injury nullifies a modifier and a critical injury nullifies all mods and halfs all stats. The console/weapon/whatever still would exist and can be fixed but only at a shipyard, and those consumables would only be a temporary fix with a timer or something.
That could be a good compromise, and could at least convince some players not to be suicidal.
If your ship explodes its just GONE. You get a free courtesy shuttle back at HQ and you can't respawn in the STF/PVP match.
Want a new ship? Go grind some dilithium or pay zen.
Two thoughts. First there is already damage in elite modes that lower abilities and require repairs. To delete the items in question will not induce people into pvp it will drive more people away.
Now if there is a hardcore or insanity mode ever put in. It should have destroyed equipment, death of bridge officers, and possible perm death of your captain. Captain death will include a movie scene of a torpedo lowered onto a launch track with the ufp flag on. Sign of an assemblage folding the flag and the torpedo launched.
Of course a bonfire funeral scene for kdf players. Because if the stakes are that high, you should have the honour of the closure.
I just do not see it happening.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
We don't need any additional dil sinks! I'm spending 64.000 Dil on my fleets holdings every single day! Thats enough if you were aksing me. We just even got a new dil sink - crafting.
Why do you even care about the zen prices? On one of the first pages you said, that you as a lifetimer have enough zen to purchase anything you want. I assume you're one of those guys who are sitting on billions of unrefined Dil because they were massively using that dil exploit back in those days. And the only thing you care for now is getting as much zen as possible.
But, to be honest, the zen price is still fine. I remember times when the price was almost at 400 Dil per Zen
No, nononononono. Just, no. This isn't fracking eve online. And that's a good thing. Getting ranked by other players here is bad enough, but losing an item because of it is just stupid. And if an NPC pulls some weird **** and one shots you (unimatrix lance) then that's even worse.
1)
4) Having the exchange rate at 80 is a BAD thing. Like will KILL THIS GAME BAD. There is a way to get 3750 zen in 2 months at the current rate. Imagine if you get DOUBLE that. 75 bucks of zen every two months...and that assumes just TWO alts doing this. NOBODY will buy zen. Not when buying zen to fuel dil sinks will net you half of what it does now. Nobody buys zen, this game DIES. And honestly 160 is too low. It's unhealthy low. Anything more then being able to farm out 10 bucks a month is low. More then 15 is unhealthy low. More then 25 and your looking at game will close down if this keeps up range.
Your numbers are very, very badly out - A single character, maxing the 8 plus .5k Dil Cap per day, will gain 1624.2 Zen per month.
In other words, it is a good thing you are wrong, if STO would actually close down at these rates which it wont.
Because what you're proposing won't immediately favor certain players with certain high-DPS builds at all, and therefore widen the gulf that already exists between PvPers and non-PvPers.
Possibly the worst idea i've heard all week. And this has been a week of bad ideas for STO.
If you read his posts in another thread youd understand it has nothing to do with PvP.
Hes cheap and refuses to spend any of his money on the game. He seeks to force Zen into a downward spiral on the Dilithium Exchange. This way he can easily access Zen at a far cheaper price then what its going for on the Exchange now.
Comments
I'm sorry, what!
What game are you playing cause it isn't STO! I challenge you to get any other player to agree with you on this one statement. Anyone.
At this point I honestly believe you don't actually believe what you are saying. You are just trying to get a rise.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
We have yet to see the OP post a rebutal to these points
1) What are you smoking?
2) Why aren't you sharing?
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
1. The vast majority of players, including a decent % of pvper's, have no interest at all in old-style, TRIBBLE "inflict real harm on other players" vicious/griefing pvp.
2. Many players don't consider the exchange going from 80 to 150 to be the disaster that you imagine it to be. (Heck, I remember when I started playing the game, the exchange was around 130 and going down, and the forums were full of people screaming that The Economy Is Ruined! because the rate wasn't 300+ any more.)
So, yeah. Not a lot of takers for your nutty idea. Sorry.
(Honestly, I find the complaints about the exchange rate being "so high" at 160 to be hilarious. The last time I stopped playing Neverwinter, the new expansion had hit, and the exchange had been pegged at the max value of 500. For weeks. With a 4 million zen backlog of Buy offers.)
I've been playing since the game went f2p. And I have seen the exchange at least a 100 higher then it is now. I'm sure has probably been even higher then that since I started playing. I personally don't pay enough attention to the exchange price to say when or by how much.
I can tell you right now that the fleet dil sinks are most certainly not full, not for my fleets or most of the fleets I know. Maybe yours is, (and bully for you if that is the case) but a huge amount of fleets are still very much building themselves up and are hungry for dil. What you propose would cripple them.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
They have every bit to do with the topic. The topic is that there should be a chance to have an item destroyed when a player is killed. You claim it is needed. Provide video proof of how "needed" it is and how much you are dedicated to seeing this feature implemented.
Lead by example. Prove to us you are not trolling. Post a video where you get the destroyed and you discard a piece of Rep gear, or Fleet gear. Put your money where your mouth is.
Star Trek: The Original Grind
Star Trek: The Next Grind
Star Trek: Deep Space Grind
Star Trek: Voyage to the Grind
I second this.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Then you should lead by example grab you 10 sided die if its a "5" roll select a piece of rep gear can just start at deflector and work your way down and if you get a "10" you suffered a catastorphic failure ship and all hands lost so you delete that character and move on to your next. Just think you will be foraging a new path in your game play. 3 successive "10" rolls you can delete your account to show us how serious you are about this.
At the end of the day most of the players would not like such a change and if the casuals stop buying zen what would that do for your dilith to zen conversion rates.
Soldier on
I do not grind and grind and grind for my fleet gear to be destroyed. Ship injuries that can affect things like damage, dps, defense, shield recovery etc. Which is why you always carry repair equipment on you.
There's no reason to change what we have.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
As I said, when I started playing, the forums were full of people moaning that the rate wasn't 300 anymore, that it was "far too low" at 130. Why were they making these complaints? Because they were the Big Money Players who bought zen with real cash, exchanged it for vast piles of Dil, and shoved all that dil into the huge Fleet dil sinks.
So, no.... there were Dil sinks back when the rate was higher. And they've just added more and more sinks since then (like the whole rep system, and many more Fleet things.
Basic fact of the matter is that 80 was an unnaturally low exchange rate. It was not the standard of what should always be - the nature of the exchange is that it shifts. And 160 is still damn low.
You are complaining that zen cost too much dilithium, so you are proposing to cost people thousands (if not millions) of zen on the off change you can save a little dilithium on the exchange.
Most of us don't even care that the price of the exchange is what it is. Infact you are the only one who thinks it it high.
Also I find the fact that you consider other people losing gear is a "reward" for you quite frankly despicable.
I hope you are trying to grief people with this thread, because otherwise I think you may have some real issues you need to work out.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Actions speak louder than words. Even if most of us don't agree with your beliefs, some of us would respect you for acting on your beliefs. It shows you are actually serious about this. Without action to back it up, then you are just emitting hot air, figuratively speaking.
If you aim to reduce the price of Zen, and also reduce the amount of dilithium people have to buy Zen, what do you actually accomplish?.
Your proposal manages to lower zen to let's say 50 dil but replacing all my lost equipment means I now have just 500 dil left!. Lower Zen prices, hooray!.
If you lower both zen price and available dilithium, you make no difference to the amount of zen I can buy. You could even make it harder for people to afford zen, especially these who don't have very good equipment and are therefore likely to be destroyed more often.
And yes... That is how it is...
Every post in here except yours is against it, just like it was in the other threads.
This isn't one of them.
If your ship explodes its just GONE. You get a free courtesy shuttle back at HQ and you can't respawn in the STF/PVP match.
Want a new ship? Go grind some dilithium or pay zen.
This is STO, not EVE.
It even has a few advantages. Power creep for instance, would disappear overnight if players had to equip ships and such with potential loss in mind. Crafting would become valuable as a means to replace the losses and a good method of earning EC.
The role of tank, healer and support would be critical in teams and on maps. They would go from pointlessness to being relevant.
And lastly. 10% isn't really that much is it? Of course 1% would be enough to get the masses panicking. I suppose I do understand everyone else's point of view, but since I already avoid such grinds like the plague I can't say I fully appreciate the perspective.
Perhaps as an alternative then we can look at the injuries system. Have them affect specific slotted equipment. Say a minor injury nerfs a little DPS, a major injury nullifies a modifier and a critical injury nullifies all mods and halfs all stats. The console/weapon/whatever still would exist and can be fixed but only at a shipyard, and those consumables would only be a temporary fix with a timer or something.
That could be a good compromise, and could at least convince some players not to be suicidal.
Puts away cloaked plasma cannon. "What?"
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Two thoughts. First there is already damage in elite modes that lower abilities and require repairs. To delete the items in question will not induce people into pvp it will drive more people away.
Now if there is a hardcore or insanity mode ever put in. It should have destroyed equipment, death of bridge officers, and possible perm death of your captain. Captain death will include a movie scene of a torpedo lowered onto a launch track with the ufp flag on. Sign of an assemblage folding the flag and the torpedo launched.
Of course a bonfire funeral scene for kdf players. Because if the stakes are that high, you should have the honour of the closure.
I just do not see it happening.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Could be something for a nightmare-mode, if (IF) the rewards are good enough.
We don't need any additional dil sinks! I'm spending 64.000 Dil on my fleets holdings every single day! Thats enough if you were aksing me. We just even got a new dil sink - crafting.
Why do you even care about the zen prices? On one of the first pages you said, that you as a lifetimer have enough zen to purchase anything you want. I assume you're one of those guys who are sitting on billions of unrefined Dil because they were massively using that dil exploit back in those days. And the only thing you care for now is getting as much zen as possible.
But, to be honest, the zen price is still fine. I remember times when the price was almost at 400 Dil per Zen
Your numbers are very, very badly out - A single character, maxing the 8 plus .5k Dil Cap per day, will gain 1624.2 Zen per month.
In other words, it is a good thing you are wrong, if STO would actually close down at these rates which it wont.
If you read his posts in another thread youd understand it has nothing to do with PvP.
Hes cheap and refuses to spend any of his money on the game. He seeks to force Zen into a downward spiral on the Dilithium Exchange. This way he can easily access Zen at a far cheaper price then what its going for on the Exchange now.