The global aim of this global solution is to reduce the crushing burden of the price of zen, eliminate the ennui inherent in any system with no stakes, and bring about a bright new day for the game.
Improving PvP is ONE SMALL BENEFIT out of MANY BROAD BENEFITS. Your fixation on it blinds you to the bigger picture. Let it go, its ok.
I50-160 is hardly a crushing burden, and if you think it is then you are doing it wrong.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
In the broadest sense, one definition of "more" is "better," so it is good in itself to have more.
In the miniscule and tiny world of PvP, which is a competition, having more gives you a competitive advantage which improves your chance of winning, and in a competition like the nano-scale world of PvP, winning is EVERYTHING.
But you don't get more. You just make other people have less.
Why is that good?
You obvously did not read the first message, or have already forgotten it. The original argument was that it was a fainely balanced PVP Match... You know, the sort folks claim they want, equivalent gear and ships where skill and a little good fortune determined the winner.
HOWEVER, once player was destroyed (as will happen in PVP) and loses a piece of gear. his ship is now qualitatively inferior ro his oponent, and the match continues with the now inferior player suffering a handicap.
BY DEFENITION handicapping one player is benefitting the other in thissort of ZERO SUM situation.
It is really that simple, (X-1<X)=(X>X-1)
Assuming therefore that they began in the same place the player who lost capability is less capable/effective than the player who did not lose anything, Therefore the player who did not lose something is now superior.
In the miniscule PvP community, it would improve the experience for PvPers.
I'm pretty sure those certain PvP'ers who use every exclusive console and cheese in the game as a crutch would have something to say about that. Never mind the fact most of them hate losing already, never mind the chance for said toys to randomly disappear.
In the broadest sense, one definition of "more" is "better," so it is good in itself to have more.
In the miniscule and tiny world of PvP, which is a competition, having more gives you a competitive advantage which improves your chance of winning, and in a competition like the nano-scale world of PvP, winning is EVERYTHING.
Ok then. What benefit to pvp would item destruction have over temporary disablement?
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
My concerns are altruistic. I myself have and can generate huge amounts of dil because I am such a productive player, but it isn't me I'm worried about, I am covered in gravy, I will be fine one way or another.
My motives are altruistic, I am seeking global solutions for global problems, a problem that affects the Workingman, not people like me.
I think people like me have an obligation to help the workingman don't you?
In this instance, your help is neither required nor desired.
And this is coming from a "Working man."
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
My concerns are altruistic. I myself have and can generate huge amounts of dil because I am such a productive player, but it isn't me I'm worried about, I am covered in gravy, I will be fine one way or another.
My motives are altruistic, I am seeking global solutions for global problems, a problem that affects the Workingman, not people like me.
I think people like me have an obligation to help the workingman don't you?
yeah, as a workig man, please, stip rtying to help
Also, someone mentioned the "crushing" cost of Zen? ROFLMAO! Go look at neverwinter to see a game that is desperately in need of a DIl (equivalent) sink.
Having participated in real PvP before, I disagree based on extensive personal experience, as well as a good understanding of human motives.
Right now PvP is a hollow, ghastly, empty shell because there is no *point* to it. You can't win anything doing it. No matter what happens in pvp, you can never get MORE.
Adding these high stakes would add excitement to it, it would give people the chance, for the first time in STO, to get MORE by doing PvP.
Depriving you opponent of gear (once the match has ended) not getting you more though.
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Temporary disablement is not your opponent having less.
Beyond why the time frame of the match why does your oppent having less matter? I get the during the battle the handicap is a benefit, why would you care about after they are done?
How does that person having less then you after that benefit you?
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
Right now PvP is a hollow, ghastly, empty shell because there is no *point* to it. You can't win anything doing it. No matter what happens in pvp, you can never get MORE.
Congratulations, you ust described PVP and PVE in every on-line non professional game. this ain't Pro SC2 or DOTA or LOL. there is no real world reward for any of this. EVERYTHING is virtual. doen for fun and personal enjoyment/fulfillment.
and i still haven't seen an actual answer to the question of WHY do we need a Dil sink over and above the ones already in the game?
The core, fundamental question behind any argument made thus far is "Because i think there should/needs to be one" Which is something which can be gratuitously dismissed as i thas no backing save personal opinion. Yeah, my opsition that we don't need one also is personal opinion, but it is backed by the status quo. You want change, give su a GOOD argument as for why.
I cant interpret your contempt for these people as anything besides an endorsement of my plan.
Good man!
Ooo check you out with those fancy adult words.
I can only go from my own experience, and my only real PvP experience is Ker'rat. And believe me friend, some of the rage that goes on in there is incredible for a game where the worst thing that can happen is 10 seconds in re-spawn oblivion.
Can you imagine the reaction if they re-spawned to find the console most critical to their build or strategy is missing? I can admit it would be funny to watch, but I'm quite sure the player who suffered the defeat wouldn't find it so funny.
PvP is its own reward - your plan is just not only a bad idea, it will drive away PvPers on mass. Kerrat will literally die if this is implemented even in a toned down form, and premade PvP will suffer immensely as well.
If you want to make PvP rewarding, add rewards. Not take away items.
Come to Ker'rat sometime, and run a test session of your idea - trust me, you'll come to your senses afterwards once the HoBOs see you and reduce your ship to scrap.
Fleet Admiral Thomas Winston James a.k.a. The Grayfox Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Because if that person has less than you, you have more than him, and more is better.
Gaining more in relation to yourself is better, but how is having more then someone else after the battle is over in any a boon for you if you haven't gained something?
It's not myfault ifyoufeel trolledbymyDisco ball...Sorry'boutit.
All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
Sometimes we have to look for a global solution, when local willingness to commit does not rise to the occasions.
I don't have to tell you, no one commits to any of the changes imposed on the game, they aren't made optional, its always "take it or go."
We should follow the best exhortations to put our hands on the 'arc of history' and bend it toward a better path.
And who are you to say that this is a better path. There is a huge difference between walking away from a mugging in progress and trying to implement a system that might drop the Dilithium Exchange rate.
If such a system was implemented by Cryptic, then I would be along with almost everyone else raging against Cryptic to change it back. I would immediately change all my equipment to commons from the Vendor store and store all my valuable equipment in my Bank and unused ships. I am almost certain that the majority of players would either quit or just use common equipment and have common gear in their inventory. I never rage against anything Cryptic has ever done due to my mellow nature, but there is always a first time for everything.
This change will likely have the opposite effect of what you want. The various dilithium sinks in the game would not be used as much since they are all about getting valuable equipment and the number of people that would actually use the current dilithium sinks and the dilithium repairs will never make up for the amount of dilithium currently used up in the various dilithium sinks. So instead of going down to 100 like you want, it might shoot up to 300 or higher.
SORRY but that is insufficient, It is too high because YOU sy it is. Statements of opinion are nto valid arguments.
Would I like the prce of Zen to drop? Certainly, i'm a free player with a rather limited income after all, but it it sells at Al tab to check current price) at 159D/Z Then that is what it sells for. That is, RIGHT NOW, the current market price. WANTING it to be lower is all well and good, but it is not an argument for it.
Comments
But you don't get more. You just make other people have less.
Why is that good?
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Its just being spiteful and vindictive.
I know, but I'm trying to get him to admit it.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Why does having more then other people matter? This is what I want you to tell me.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
I50-160 is hardly a crushing burden, and if you think it is then you are doing it wrong.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
There is a big assumption you are making.
Some pvpers.
but for the majority it would drive them away and make this games already anemic pvp community practically non-existent.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
You obvously did not read the first message, or have already forgotten it. The original argument was that it was a fainely balanced PVP Match... You know, the sort folks claim they want, equivalent gear and ships where skill and a little good fortune determined the winner.
HOWEVER, once player was destroyed (as will happen in PVP) and loses a piece of gear. his ship is now qualitatively inferior ro his oponent, and the match continues with the now inferior player suffering a handicap.
BY DEFENITION handicapping one player is benefitting the other in thissort of ZERO SUM situation.
It is really that simple, (X-1<X)=(X>X-1)
Assuming therefore that they began in the same place the player who lost capability is less capable/effective than the player who did not lose anything, Therefore the player who did not lose something is now superior.
I'm pretty sure those certain PvP'ers who use every exclusive console and cheese in the game as a crutch would have something to say about that. Never mind the fact most of them hate losing already, never mind the chance for said toys to randomly disappear.
Ok then. What benefit to pvp would item destruction have over temporary disablement?
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
In this instance, your help is neither required nor desired.
And this is coming from a "Working man."
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
yeah, as a workig man, please, stip rtying to help
Also, someone mentioned the "crushing" cost of Zen? ROFLMAO! Go look at neverwinter to see a game that is desperately in need of a DIl (equivalent) sink.
Depriving you opponent of gear (once the match has ended) not getting you more though.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Beyond why the time frame of the match why does your oppent having less matter? I get the during the battle the handicap is a benefit, why would you care about after they are done?
How does that person having less then you after that benefit you?
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
But you haven't gained anything. Not a single solitary thing.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
The OP's suggestion would raise the Dil->Zen conversion price... not lower it... I suspect he knows this very well.
Congratulations, you ust described PVP and PVE in every on-line non professional game. this ain't Pro SC2 or DOTA or LOL. there is no real world reward for any of this. EVERYTHING is virtual. doen for fun and personal enjoyment/fulfillment.
and i still haven't seen an actual answer to the question of WHY do we need a Dil sink over and above the ones already in the game?
The core, fundamental question behind any argument made thus far is "Because i think there should/needs to be one" Which is something which can be gratuitously dismissed as i thas no backing save personal opinion. Yeah, my opsition that we don't need one also is personal opinion, but it is backed by the status quo. You want change, give su a GOOD argument as for why.
Ooo check you out with those fancy adult words.
I can only go from my own experience, and my only real PvP experience is Ker'rat. And believe me friend, some of the rage that goes on in there is incredible for a game where the worst thing that can happen is 10 seconds in re-spawn oblivion.
Can you imagine the reaction if they re-spawned to find the console most critical to their build or strategy is missing? I can admit it would be funny to watch, but I'm quite sure the player who suffered the defeat wouldn't find it so funny.
No it isn't
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
If you want to make PvP rewarding, add rewards. Not take away items.
Come to Ker'rat sometime, and run a test session of your idea - trust me, you'll come to your senses afterwards once the HoBOs see you and reduce your ship to scrap.
Item destruction is nothing more than a pointless frustration factor. The injury system functions fine as a death penalty.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
Fleet Leader of:
Liberty Task Force/Liberty Honor Guard
Pride of the Federation/Pride of the Empire
Liberty Guardians
U.S.S. Liberty, NX-42813-L, T-6 Legendary Odyssey Class
Game Handle: Grayfox@GrayfoxJames
Website: https://www.libertytaskforce.com
Armada (STOFA Member Fleet): https://www.libertytaskforce.com/stofa
Discord: https://discord.gg/bGp9N7z
Twitter: STOFA@LTFGrayfox
Email: CSDynamix@Hotmail.com
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
Exactly. Zen Sellers are happy to sell, Zen buyers are happy to buy.
I'm fairly sure polls are against the rules here.
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy
And who are you to say that this is a better path. There is a huge difference between walking away from a mugging in progress and trying to implement a system that might drop the Dilithium Exchange rate.
If such a system was implemented by Cryptic, then I would be along with almost everyone else raging against Cryptic to change it back. I would immediately change all my equipment to commons from the Vendor store and store all my valuable equipment in my Bank and unused ships. I am almost certain that the majority of players would either quit or just use common equipment and have common gear in their inventory. I never rage against anything Cryptic has ever done due to my mellow nature, but there is always a first time for everything.
This change will likely have the opposite effect of what you want. The various dilithium sinks in the game would not be used as much since they are all about getting valuable equipment and the number of people that would actually use the current dilithium sinks and the dilithium repairs will never make up for the amount of dilithium currently used up in the various dilithium sinks. So instead of going down to 100 like you want, it might shoot up to 300 or higher.
And the Fedball? Even the best HoBOs can only take so many Feds at once.
SORRY but that is insufficient, It is too high because YOU sy it is. Statements of opinion are nto valid arguments.
Would I like the prce of Zen to drop? Certainly, i'm a free player with a rather limited income after all, but it it sells at Al tab to check current price) at 159D/Z Then that is what it sells for. That is, RIGHT NOW, the current market price. WANTING it to be lower is all well and good, but it is not an argument for it.
Can you answer my question without using the words "more is better?"
R.I.P. Leonard Nimoy