It seems that we have hit pay dirt with these ideas.
I would add, fix the queues so that changing zones while queued doesn't boot you. I don't have time to sit in one place waiting for a queue to pop when I could be doffing or something, and the season 8 update broke my Steam overlay so I can't just browse the web while I wait anymore.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
It's just a question of who's got the best gear. PvP in MMO's is casual by its very nature. Even the so called "hardcore" PvPers are casual because it's impossible to take MMO PvP seriously in any way. Look at all the pro and non pro gaming leagues out there. CS:S, CS 1.6, WCIII, SCII. They all have one thing in common. The deciding factor for victory in those games is skill. Something that's markedly absent from MMO PvP. This is why I don't bother.
"Skill" is such a highly overused and highly conflicted word in forums that it's lost clear definition, let alone utility, and is used to make one's own gameplay seem important and superior to another person's gameplay.
A fine example of this: Visit Planetside 2's forums sometime. The snipers scream that they should be catered to and get special perks because what they do takes skill, those who get sniped hate snipers and say it takes "no skill" to kill people from long range without getting shot back, rocker podders claiming skill and those they rocketpod, again, saying no skill.
So on and so on. "Skill" as empty and overused a word as "balanced" and just as full of personal bias. What benefits me is skillful and balanced, anything that counters takes no skill and is unbalanced.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
It's just a question of who's got the best gear. PvP in MMO's is casual by its very nature. Even the so called "hardcore" PvPers are casual because it's impossible to take MMO PvP seriously in any way. Look at all the pro and non pro gaming leagues out there. CS:S, CS 1.6, WCIII, SCII. They all have one thing in common. The deciding factor for victory in those games is skill. Something that's markedly absent from MMO PvP. This is why I don't bother.
THere is a decided reason for that. You are provided with a set of abilites and skills, designed to be upgraded over the course of a match.
It takes real thought and real skill to play PvP in an RTS hence why it is called strategy.
The mind boggling set of combinations provided in an rpg like this are so overdone that the chances of your build holding up are fairly slim, so a lot of people jack of all trades it, and get blown away by a min/maxer.
At i have come across people where a fully buffed alpha gainst them was ticking off 30 - 40 damage a tick witrh crits of 80-400. Not because my damage was pouring out at 1.2k, oh no but their resitance was so damned high you couldnt do diddly.
This game requires 0 strategy, in any aspect. And until PvP excludes Passive's, Rep Passives and any gear that isnt PvP gear it will never be balanced at all.
PvP gear obtainable from EC and Dil stores. No Fleet Versions, No hybrid versions, and reasonable vaules set to said items.
Imagine a PvP match where Sup OP doesnt work, Leadership fails, and Pirates are locked away. A match where Basic weapons are shooting away without a billion very rare modifiers and multiple procs. A match that has a more even playing field presented before them where skill and piloting are required to reach the top.....
Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Imagine a PvP match where Sup OP doesnt work, Leadership fails, and Pirates are locked away. A match where Basic weapons are shooting away without a billion very rare modifiers and multiple procs. A match that has a more even playing field presented before them where skill and piloting are required to reach the top.....
So basically, a match where it's nothing resembling an RPG in any way but name. Looks to me like little more than an admission that STO is the type of game unfit for PvP unless it's reworked into a totally different type of game.
I would imagine you get pvp that has no game connection to play pve as there would be no grind for anything needed to minmax a build idea and you would have just one group balling up for defense while the other tries to pop someone loose to attempt to kill them. First season PvP. Its fun but I dont see it making money for STO.
- Because I don't feel the need to have my ego stroked by beating up some other player.
- Because I can't really stand having to see someone complain that everyone else is cheating, just because he gets beaten up, and not being able to slap him/her.
- Because I blame the PvP'ers for messing up my builds so many times I can't even count anymore, because THEY think "Ability X is overpowered"...
In short... PvP is boring, because of the PvPers.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I did a one on one pvp last Saturday, not a fan and avoid it 99% of the time but I was in a new ship with a new setup and wanted to test it at its limits and push it past them. Instead of accepting one of the random pvp challenges though, I called out to the zone. Asking for a friendly match. Guess what... I made a new friend! Though nobody won the match, we both had fun.after 30 minutes we had both been below 75% many times but constantly returning to 100%, nether one of us was going to die in our builds but it did provide me the data I was after. Just thought I'd share that good experience in the mist of all the bad experiences we've all had as pveers in the pvp environment.
I did a one on one pvp last Saturday, not a fan and avoid it 99% of the time but I was in a new ship with a new setup and wanted to test it at its limits and push it past them. Instead of accepting one of the random pvp challenges though, I called out to the zone. Asking for a friendly match. Guess what... I made a new friend! Though nobody won the match, we both had fun.after 30 minutes we had both been below 75% many times but constantly returning to 100%, nether one of us was going to die in our builds but it did provide me the data I was after. Just thought I'd share that good experience in the mist of all the bad experiences we've all had as pveers in the pvp environment.
Private matches can be a lot of fun and are a good way to avoid the premades and pvp elitists who confuse cloning and robotic, rotating tactics or simply having more skill points and traits invested for skill.
I would like to remind you guys of some of the ideas we had to make pvp more palatable for casual players:
-A player who Q's alone will only fight other players who have Q'd alone or a mode for random teaming only so that players do not have to face premade teams if they do not choose to.
-FED and KDF war games merged so that a war game will have teams built of FED and KDF mixes (this would speed things up).
-A ladder/ranking system to separate skilled players from unskilled players.
-A reputation system or pvp reward system of some kind.
I've played a ton of MMO's dating all the way back to Neverwinter Nights on AOL. In my experience, the PvP community are a bunch of hypocrites; they claim to want the challenge of fighting a human. Then they camp a newbie area and gank the hell out of the new characters. I hate to generalize, but in my experience, the PvPers are griefers...that is my number one reason to not engage in PvP.
Here are some others
* I have a friend who types in excess of 140 words per minute...good luck beating him in any game.
* Network latency creates an imbalanced playing field at random intervals.
* Re-spawing renders PvP into an elaborate game of tic tac toe...I don't imagine any of you play that futile game anymore. Why? Because it is boring. Imagine if you died in PvP you had to roll a new character and level up from level 1...PvP would have a far different feel. I admit not many gamers would like to play that type of game; so much for the challenge of fighting a human.
When I want to PvP...I go to my dojo, lace up the gloves and pit my skill, reflexes, and athleticism against another human being, face to face. That is a challenge and is exciting and fun. Engaging in pixelated violence doesn't prove a damned thing, pales in comparison, and is rendered useless by the fact that my opponent reappears after death and is just plain ridiculous IMO.
I used to play eve online and i played it as harcore PVP player. I killed tho sands of ships.
When i killed a player i gained something. We did it for loot. We did it for territory. We did it for money.
Here i see no point at all. Where is the gain? No risk no fun. Respawn pvp without any longterm goals is pointless to me.
Let me take over your starbase or some territory and i will be actively Pvping.
I used to play eve online and i played it as harcore PVP player. I killed tho sands of ships.
When i killed a player i gained something. We did it for loot. We did it for territory. We did it for money.
Here i see no point at all. Where is the gain? No risk no fun. Respawn pvp without any longterm goals is pointless to me.
Let me take over your starbase or some territory and i will be actively Pvping.
Definitely! There was talk during the fleet base development of being able to attack another fleets base. That would be so cool.
Definitely! There was talk during the fleet base development of being able to attack another fleets base. That would be so cool.
That would be cool. I mean those 200k dil projects would make much more sense if they were extra defence measures from enemy fleet attack instead of pretty but useless eye candy.
Sentry guns, buffed hulls and shields, support NPC ships...the list can go on.
I've not played the game in a good while but back when I did pvp never really interested me. I just started to play a bit again and it still doesn't. I've never really been into rp so I tend to think of pvp as a sport and sto like a lot of mmo?s in that light would be a sport where performance enhancing drugs are not only allow but required to be used in the right order and interval and horrible expensive. Now one might argue that that is modern sports but that?s not what I think of as fun.
As for what could be done to make pvp more something I'd try. I don't really know. A way to easy people into it would be good. I?d say or a version that was based around just going in and having fun on a relatively equal footing. The only pvp games I've been playing as of late are world of tanks and warthunder. More the tanks so far. Those are lobby shooters with balance in mind. I'd describe world of tanks as a first/third person shooter for old people and warthunder the same with a caveat of having the skill to avoid slamming your plane into the ground or other planes repetitively (not that I don't do either of those at times but I do try and avoid it). Both these games have tiers that you are placed in based what you are driving around in. Warthunder also seems to take some level of player skill into account from what I've read with the random match maker.
Something I've always thought could be fun is having pvp with just shuttle and the character gimble turned off so it could fly like a plane or well a space ship and less a submarine. Also turned off tab/auto targeting or very a very limited version. That would be something I'd try.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
I would like to remind you guys of some of the ideas we had to make pvp more palatable for casual players:
-A player who Q's alone will only fight other players who have Q'd alone or a mode for random teaming only so that players do not have to face premade teams if they do not choose to.
-FED and KDF war games merged so that a war game will have teams built of FED and KDF mixes (this would speed things up).
-A ladder/ranking system to separate skilled players from unskilled players.
-A reputation system or pvp reward system of some kind.
but will the new system make the solo nonvet low gear doff ship quality often lacking in teamwork using player happy even when they still fail to win as consistantly as their egoes say they should?
Live and let live. PvP players can strive against each other, PvE players can strive against NPCs, those who do both can do both, and none of the groups needs to assume it's in competition against the others.
Unlikely, I know, but every idea has to start as a dream, right?
Live and let live. PvP players can strive against each other, PvE players can strive against NPCs, those who do both can do both, and none of the groups needs to assume it's in competition against the others.
Unlikely, I know, but every idea has to start as a dream, right?
I'm with this guy. People need to quit evangelising.
The only way I'd ever PvP is if you removed it so a human player didn't lose. Wait. We already do that. They call it PvE.
Live and let live. PvP players can strive against each other, PvE players can strive against NPCs, those who do both can do both, and none of the groups needs to assume it's in competition against the others.
Unlikely, I know, but every idea has to start as a dream, right?
I share the dream of an end to the absurd "they need to join us in [PvE/PvP/whatever] and stop having fun wrong" mentality.
Of course I also realize we'll all be flying around on winged donkeys before it ever comes close to happening, due to the nature of this species.
When the PvP playing gets better IE, better mechanics, sure. Till then, not really.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
So we see the catch-22 the PVPers are in, which is similar to the KDF catch-22. PVEers avoid PVP because it's superbly unbalanced and it isn't fun to get used for target practice by the cadre of PVP-exclusive minmaxers who one-shot fully shielded tank builds. And because everyone's over on PVE, Cryptic invests there instead of improving PVP to where PVEers have more fun.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
I would add, fix the queues so that changing zones while queued doesn't boot you. I don't have time to sit in one place waiting for a queue to pop when I could be doffing or something, and the season 8 update broke my Steam overlay so I can't just browse the web while I wait anymore.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
"Skill" is such a highly overused and highly conflicted word in forums that it's lost clear definition, let alone utility, and is used to make one's own gameplay seem important and superior to another person's gameplay.
A fine example of this: Visit Planetside 2's forums sometime. The snipers scream that they should be catered to and get special perks because what they do takes skill, those who get sniped hate snipers and say it takes "no skill" to kill people from long range without getting shot back, rocker podders claiming skill and those they rocketpod, again, saying no skill.
So on and so on. "Skill" as empty and overused a word as "balanced" and just as full of personal bias. What benefits me is skillful and balanced, anything that counters takes no skill and is unbalanced.
Please go here to read a bit more:
sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=14201091
THere is a decided reason for that. You are provided with a set of abilites and skills, designed to be upgraded over the course of a match.
It takes real thought and real skill to play PvP in an RTS hence why it is called strategy.
The mind boggling set of combinations provided in an rpg like this are so overdone that the chances of your build holding up are fairly slim, so a lot of people jack of all trades it, and get blown away by a min/maxer.
At i have come across people where a fully buffed alpha gainst them was ticking off 30 - 40 damage a tick witrh crits of 80-400. Not because my damage was pouring out at 1.2k, oh no but their resitance was so damned high you couldnt do diddly.
This game requires 0 strategy, in any aspect. And until PvP excludes Passive's, Rep Passives and any gear that isnt PvP gear it will never be balanced at all.
PvP gear obtainable from EC and Dil stores. No Fleet Versions, No hybrid versions, and reasonable vaules set to said items.
Imagine a PvP match where Sup OP doesnt work, Leadership fails, and Pirates are locked away. A match where Basic weapons are shooting away without a billion very rare modifiers and multiple procs. A match that has a more even playing field presented before them where skill and piloting are required to reach the top.....
I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So basically, a match where it's nothing resembling an RPG in any way but name. Looks to me like little more than an admission that STO is the type of game unfit for PvP unless it's reworked into a totally different type of game.
-shrug-
R.I.P
Basically
- Because I don't feel the need to have my ego stroked by beating up some other player.
- Because I can't really stand having to see someone complain that everyone else is cheating, just because he gets beaten up, and not being able to slap him/her.
- Because I blame the PvP'ers for messing up my builds so many times I can't even count anymore, because THEY think "Ability X is overpowered"...
In short... PvP is boring, because of the PvPers.
Private matches can be a lot of fun and are a good way to avoid the premades and pvp elitists who confuse cloning and robotic, rotating tactics or simply having more skill points and traits invested for skill.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
Ich kann google zu ubersetzen
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
Here are some others
* I have a friend who types in excess of 140 words per minute...good luck beating him in any game.
* Network latency creates an imbalanced playing field at random intervals.
* Re-spawing renders PvP into an elaborate game of tic tac toe...I don't imagine any of you play that futile game anymore. Why? Because it is boring. Imagine if you died in PvP you had to roll a new character and level up from level 1...PvP would have a far different feel. I admit not many gamers would like to play that type of game; so much for the challenge of fighting a human.
When I want to PvP...I go to my dojo, lace up the gloves and pit my skill, reflexes, and athleticism against another human being, face to face. That is a challenge and is exciting and fun. Engaging in pixelated violence doesn't prove a damned thing, pales in comparison, and is rendered useless by the fact that my opponent reappears after death and is just plain ridiculous IMO.
Dunzel
Obviously not.
I used to play eve online and i played it as harcore PVP player. I killed tho sands of ships.
When i killed a player i gained something. We did it for loot. We did it for territory. We did it for money.
Here i see no point at all. Where is the gain? No risk no fun. Respawn pvp without any longterm goals is pointless to me.
Let me take over your starbase or some territory and i will be actively Pvping.
I'll have to take your word on that, as your post doesn't provide any supporting evidence.
Definitely! There was talk during the fleet base development of being able to attack another fleets base. That would be so cool.
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
That would be cool. I mean those 200k dil projects would make much more sense if they were extra defence measures from enemy fleet attack instead of pretty but useless eye candy.
Sentry guns, buffed hulls and shields, support NPC ships...the list can go on.
As for what could be done to make pvp more something I'd try. I don't really know. A way to easy people into it would be good. I?d say or a version that was based around just going in and having fun on a relatively equal footing. The only pvp games I've been playing as of late are world of tanks and warthunder. More the tanks so far. Those are lobby shooters with balance in mind. I'd describe world of tanks as a first/third person shooter for old people and warthunder the same with a caveat of having the skill to avoid slamming your plane into the ground or other planes repetitively (not that I don't do either of those at times but I do try and avoid it). Both these games have tiers that you are placed in based what you are driving around in. Warthunder also seems to take some level of player skill into account from what I've read with the random match maker.
Something I've always thought could be fun is having pvp with just shuttle and the character gimble turned off so it could fly like a plane or well a space ship and less a submarine. Also turned off tab/auto targeting or very a very limited version. That would be something I'd try.
I actually made a thread about this very thing in the PvP section a couple days ago.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=963671
Visit my youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Akurie369?feature=watch
Captain Bi Shonen's official Thread! http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=22866531#post22866531
R.I.P
Yes.
However, I'm still working on it.
May not happen.
More open PvP zones.
Unlikely, I know, but every idea has to start as a dream, right?
I'm with this guy. People need to quit evangelising.
The only way I'd ever PvP is if you removed it so a human player didn't lose. Wait. We already do that. They call it PvE.
I share the dream of an end to the absurd "they need to join us in [PvE/PvP/whatever] and stop having fun wrong" mentality.
Of course I also realize we'll all be flying around on winged donkeys before it ever comes close to happening, due to the nature of this species.
-shrug-
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/