PVEers avoid PVP because it's superbly unbalanced and it isn't fun to get used for target practice by the cadre of PVP-exclusive minmaxers who one-shot fully shielded tank builds. And because everyone's over on PVE, Cryptic invests there instead of improving PVP to where PVEers have more fun.
That's not the only reason some PvE players avoid PvP.
So we see the catch-22 the PVPers are in, which is similar to the KDF catch-22. PVEers avoid PVP because it's superbly unbalanced and it isn't fun to get used for target practice by the cadre of PVP-exclusive minmaxers who one-shot fully shielded tank builds. And because everyone's over on PVE, Cryptic invests there instead of improving PVP to where PVEers have more fun.
That's not the only reason some PvE players avoid PvP.
Indeed... As I said before... I don't need to stroke my ego, by some false sense of accomplishment, while having to read the kiddies whine when they get their butts kicked without being able to slap them.
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
make a dedicated server for those that want to 'PvP' and there ya go, problem solved. If Cryptic could make PvP more like First Person Shooters id definitely play some.
Indeed... As I said before... I don't need to stroke my ego, by some false sense of accomplishment, while having to read the kiddies whine when they get their butts kicked without being able to slap them.
Aye. Lots of reasons why people don't PvP. Fear of being one-shot by min-maxed builds might apply to some, but it's certainly not everyone. Not even close.
I don't PvP because it's a competitive activity, and I don't engage in competitive activities.
When the PvP playing gets better IE, better mechanics, sure. Till then, not really.
"Make mechanics better" is as imprecise and open to interpretation as "balance the game". The problem is that we can't seem to agree on how to even start this process.
Min-maxers who "got theirs" are likely to fortify their positions that "everything is fine, L2P" and just complain that the PVE peasants are cowards and don't want to be skilled by their skill.
Out and out PVP haters (they do exist) would want PVP removed entirely for obvious reasons.
Middle grounds include removing reputation buffs and the like from PVP, indeed, even going to the extent of stock ships and loadouts (which would work, but boy would the min-maxers hate that), among many other spectrums of offered ideas.
but will the new system make the solo nonvet low gear doff ship quality often lacking in teamwork using player happy even when they still fail to win as consistantly as their egoes say they should?
Funny how you directly equate people with young accounts or suboptimal gear/reputation sets as "lacking in teamwork" when they are completely different things with no direct correlation.
Well, that's the "hardcore" PVP mindset. The gear didn't carry them, surely the other side simply didn't work together. :rolleyes:
Funny how you directly equate people with young accounts or suboptimal gear/reputation sets as "lacking in teamwork" when they are completely different things with no direct correlation.
Well, that's the "hardcore" PVP mindset. The gear didn't carry them, surely the other side simply didn't work together. :rolleyes:
Funny how you ignore the fact that all those description have been used by those claiming what is wrong with pvp and then say its a hardcore mentality.
Premades ruin pvp for the solo player is one complaint that has been stated...
Vets have more experience and access to better gear due to the time ingame which makes those new to pvp disadvantaged...
The better gear of the vet player makes the new pvper less capable of a player in pvp has been another complaint...
And team woork among the premades designed to work in unison puts the solo new pvper at a risk of not having a chance at victory when said solo new player cant do the same with a pug...
I used the definitions and excuses used by many new and unhappy players through out this thread.
So how will those who look at pvp from under these definitions and excuses react if they are removed and such players still remain at their current level of pvp victory?
Will they be happy or find blaim elsewhere?
Its still a valid question as it stems from the most important part of any competition, the sportsmanship mindset.
I don't PvP bc I honestly got tired of it after the first year. I got tired of my super surviveabke cruiser build getting drifted to death in less that 5 seconds by one freaking cookie cutter unoriginal escort. I hop into every now and then to see if things have changed much and no they haven't. Science is more useful which is good but that's about it really. Escorts are king.
Oh and I'm tired of the trash talking trolls that make fun of you when you run away bc you can't handle them and 3 of their teammates but then run away from you when its one on one. I hate the trolling trash talk and the uselessness of tanking cruisers in PvP.
I love PVP in an MMO -- unless the PVP is a completely self-contained minigame that has no impact on or connection to the larger game world.
There are so many possibilities; fighting for areas of the map that grant access to special instances, offering buffs or other boons to the side currently winning a particular cyclic engagement, and so on. There are all manner of things large and small that might be done. And so when a game offers precisely zero of those possibilities, it's hard for me to see its PVP as anything but a lost opportunity that falls short of being worthwhile.
Honestly, if you're going to make a war between factions part of the underlying story then it's a little silly to have battles that don't matter, at all, in any measurable way.
Territory control is a great idea but the capturing and gaining control of another fleets Starbase is a bad idea as it destroys lots of effort by said fleet and is unfair to any player in said fleet that does not pvp but put in resources to help grow it.
Funny how you ignore the fact that all those description have been used by those claiming what is wrong with pvp and then say its a hardcore mentality.
Premades ruin pvp for the solo player is one complaint that has been stated...
Vets have more experience and access to better gear due to the time ingame which makes those new to pvp disadvantaged...
The better gear of the vet player makes the new pvper less capable of a player in pvp has been another complaint...
And team woork among the premades designed to work in unison puts the solo new pvper at a risk of not having a chance at victory when said solo new player cant do the same with a pug...
I used the definitions and excuses used by many new and unhappy players through out this thread.
So how will those who look at pvp from under these definitions and excuses react if they are removed and such players still remain at their current level of pvp victory?
Will they be happy or find blaim elsewhere?
Its still a valid question as it stems from the most important part of any competition, the sportsmanship mindset.
If you had an epiphany of self-awareness you might be aware that posts like that, right there, are exactly why PVP is such a lamented minority group in this game. The sense of arrogance and exclusivity and broad generalizations about PVE players does you no service here and is only perpetuating your overlooked status.
Your idea of "sportsmanship" is apparently the e-sport mockery of the idea where people mutter how the other team was "garbage" after some MLG event. It's a rotten attitude that is toxic to game communities.
And if PVP involves being around people like you all the time, frankly, it's a good thing that PVE chugs on just fine without you.
What the hell are you babbling about now?
I made no statement that these where or are complaints from PvE'ers. I stated that they are exactly what they are, complaints that have been made by some who are upset with PvP in its current state and of corrected I asked if said individuals would continue to be upset at the system if their pvp experience does not change since no amount of Dev tweaking for balance can make up for a fault of gameplay on the part of any participant.
All in correlation to a sportsmanship mindset.
You have issues about pvp obviuosly and those whom enjoy it to see my question as a hardcore or elitist statement meant to keep others down or show superiority of pvpers.
I have never played any pvp and ridiculed any player for their lack or abundance of skill before, during or after a match.
What the hell are you babbling about now?
I made no statement that these where or are complaints from PvE'ers. I stated that they are exactly what they are, complaints that have been made by some who are upset with PvP in its current state and of corrected I asked if said individuals would continue to be upset at the system if their pvp experience does not change since no amount of Dev tweaking for balance can make up for a fault of gameplay on the part of any participant.
All in correlation to a sportsmanship mindset.
You have issues about pvp obviuosly and those whom enjoy it to see my question as a hardcore or elitist statement meant to keep others down or show superiority of pvpers.
I have never played any pvp and ridiculed any player for their lack or abundance of skill before, during or after a match.
I think you doth protest too much.
"I don't understand you or claim I don't therefore you are babbling" and "you must be traumatized by people you don't agree with" are poor rhetorical tools.
Plus, you're justifying things based off an anecdote, which I can only assume you would not afford to someone disagreeing with you.
Here, I'll test it right now. I've seen some very ugly and toxic smack being thrown around in PVP matches, even while the match was still underway, the worst of it after the biggest smacktalker cloaked and wandered off to ragepost instead of continuing to play.
I take it you have some heirarchial explanation for why your anecdote is more valid than mine? :rolleyes:
But isn't the whole point of "growing" a starbase, the PvP (fleet) gear you get from the vendors? It's not like you need fleet gear for PvE. The whole starbase system is predicated on PvP. Except for a couple Doff missions, starbases are about as useful for PvE as the Captain's Table. I think it would be highly amusing, if they tied loss of starbases to PvP territory control. That way all the "Awesome Gamers" that continually gripe about how easy the game is, and extoll their mad skills at video games, would have to either put up, or shut up. Give 'em something to fight for that matters. You lose, you have to start all over again from tier 1.
Except its not. Starbase building is a fleet event and can be enjoyed as mch by the PvE fleet as the PvP fleet.
"I don't understand you or claim I don't therefore you are babbling" and "you must be traumatized by people you don't agree with" are poor rhetorical tools.
Plus, you're justifying things based off an anecdote, which I can only assume you would not afford to someone disagreeing with you.
Here, I'll test it right now. I've seen some very ugly and toxic smack being thrown around in PVP matches, even while the match was still underway, the worst of it after the biggest smacktalker cloaked and wandered off to ragepost instead of continuing to play.
I take it you have some heirarchial explanation for why your anecdote is more valid than mine? :rolleyes:
Yes babblng. Because you made assumptions about my intent based on whatever grievance you have against me is all I can believe.
You call me unaware, arragant and elitist towards pve'ers when I never specifcally targeted them in my post and them babbled some more about me being part of the trash talk issue, that exists as much in pve as it does in pvp, even though I have done no such trash talking.
Something that has a lot to do with sportsmanship and ego. As they say the wounded dog barks loudest and you are the only one I see barking.
So yes I think your views against me are more personal and have less to do with the issue at hand.
But go ahead be a dck and act the asain manga groupie again just because you seem to get some jollies out of trying to harras me, it doesnt change my question or concern.
Will those players whom are upset at pvp still be upset after pvp is balanced to their demands if they continue to have a poor pvp gaming experience?
Yes babblng. Because you made assumptions about my intent based on whatever grievance you have against me is all I can believe.
You call me unaware, arragant and elitist towards pve'ers when I never specifcally targeted them in my post and them babbled some more about me being part of the trash talk issue, that exists as much in pve as it does in pvp, even though I have done no such trash talking.
Something that has a lot to do with sportsmanship and ego. As they say the wounded dog barks loudest and you are the only one I see barking.
So yes I think your views against me are more personal and have less to do with the issue at hand.
But go ahead be a dck and act the asain manga groupie again just because you seem to get some jollies out of trying to harras me, it doesnt change my question or concern.
Will those players whom are upset at pvp still be upset after pvp is balanced to their demands if they continue to have a poor pvp gaming experience?
Yo dawg I heard you liked personal attacks so I made personal attacks about what I think were personal attacks?
The burden's on you, here. PVP needs PVEers to be interested a lot more than PVEers need PVPers to be interested in PVP. Being smug, presuming in some bully-like fashion the psychology of your "enemies" and attacking them as such only hurts your position.
Yo dawg I heard you liked personal attacks so I made personal attacks about what I think were personal attacks?
The burden's on you, here. PVP needs PVEers to be interested a lot more than PVEers need PVPers to be interested in PVP. Being smug, presuming in some bully-like fashion the psychology of your "enemies" and attacking them as such only hurts your position.
I like personal attacks??? Find any player whom playes pvp or has tried pvp, if even once, that has ever had a foul, ridiculing or dark remark directed at them come from me before, durng or afer a match.
They do not exist. Ive never even badmouthed a premade after being trounced much less any player for playing pvp, wether I win or lose to them.
As to the forums, its a TRIBBLE for tat affair. Be civil and you get civility from me. Act or even give the impression therwise and I respond in kind.
I like personal attacks??? Find any player whom playes pvp or has tried pvp, if even once, that has ever had a foul, ridiculing or dark remark directed at them come from me before, durng or afer a match.
As to the forums, its a TRIBBLE for tat affair. Be civil and you get civility from me. Act or even give the impression therwise and I respond in kind.
You asked for one, and you got one. Me.
You used an anecdote to defend your position, and I am doing the same. I leveled up to 50 on my first KDF character (out of 3) almost exclusively on early game PVP, back when Reverse Shield Polarity was absolutely necessary (and people would say "its fine L2P" refusing to change mechanics back then too). Even with that issue, it was fun, fedballs versys swarms of cloaked KDF ships, and I was often the one that would decloak first, just to force the others to chase me and break formation, and that was the chemistry of early PVP. Mines and warp plasma and birds of prey darting in and out of it trying not to get focus-fire on them.
I peek into PVP from time to time and attitudes remain toxic. I do not even speak in /zone or elsewhere but the "kids got reckd" talk is still present.
Well and good that you don't see it. I do. Either we're simply finding different things or one of us is a liar. And to simply say "you're a liar" is presumptive, isn't it?
I'm willing to believe you just haven't been in the matches I have.
You used an anecdote to defend your position, and I am doing the same. I leveled up to 50 on my first KDF character (out of 3) almost exclusively on early game PVP, back when Reverse Shield Polarity was absolutely necessary (and people would say "its fine L2P" refusing to change mechanics back then too). Even with that issue, it was fun, fedballs versys swarms of cloaked KDF ships, and I was often the one that would decloak first, just to force the others to chase me and break formation, and that was the chemistry of early PVP. Mines and warp plasma and birds of prey darting in and out of it trying not to get focus-fire on them.
I peek into PVP from time to time and attitudes remain toxic. I do not even speak in /zone or elsewhere but the "kids got reckd" talk is still present.
Well and good that you don't see it. I do. Either we're simply finding different things or one of us is a liar. And to simply say "you're a liar" is presumptive, isn't it?
I'm willing to believe you just haven't been in the matches I have.
Really? Ive personaly insulted you in pvp before? (which was my question-not a statement that trash talking doesnt exist in pvp)
Untrue, as I have never insulted or trash talked anyone in a match. ever. The least that I chat is GG. The most is " had fun, good game".
As to antedotes, sportsmanship is real and egoes spoil it. Even in virtual sports like pvp.
This is why I have many times said in the past that ego has no place in pvp.
You just seem to pick fights against other posters for no good reason and Im not the only one to notices it. Whatever floats your boat.
Really? Ive personaly insulted you in pvp before? (which was my question-not a statement that trash talking doesnt exist in pvp)
Untrue, as I have never insulted or trash talked anyone in a match. ever. The least that I chat is GG. The most is " had fun, good game".
As to antedotes, sportsmanship is real and egoes spoil it. Even in virtual sports like pvp.
This is why I have many times said in the past that ego has no place in pvp.
You just seem to pick fights against other posters for no good reason and Im not the only one to notices it. Whatever floats your boat.
PVPers have. And since your anecdotes have included statements of how civil and genteel PVPers are (and in earlier threads, how surly and terrible PVEers are by contrast), I was speaking about PVPers and my experience queueing with them. You're splitting hairs here and I think you know better.
I will continue to disagree no matter how you frame it about this. Saying "I see lots of GGs being a jerk has no place in PVP" does not invalidate the experiences of many, many people here, myself included, that have seen otherwise.
Of course you can go on saying that only your anecdotes matter, but that would be silly, right?
Your still ranting about pvp and pvpers in general when all my statements and question directed at you about being insulting in pvp and being civil in response to civlity on the forums are strictly about my actions in both pvp and the forums.
Did you not understand that when I asked if I had ever insulted you (or anyone else) in pvp? Or that if someone treats me with civility in the forums I respond in kind?
You seem to be arguing about a subject different from what I had brought up to you at this point.
You seem somewhat confused about my specific questions to you and very angry about trash talking in pvp in general
So let me.recap;
Will those wishing the afore mentioned changes to pvp still be blaiming others after said changes take effect but their gameplay does not change?
Has anyone who has played PvP ever been insilted by me in a match?
Have I ever insulted you in pvp in a match?
Will egoes still rule players attitudes over sportsmanship?
As to the rest of your posting, I have no idea what leap of subject matter you have taken to get to it our its relation to what I have continue to ask, though I do think its more a personal aproach on your part to try to obfiscate the content with out really answering the questions.
Your still ranting about pvp and pvpers in general when all my statements and question directed at you about being insulting in pvp and being civil in response to civlity on the forums are strictly about my actions in both pvp and the forums.
Did you not understand that when I asked if I had ever insulted you (or anyone else) in pvp? Or that if someone treats me with civility in the forums I respond in kind?
You seem to be arguing about a subject different from what I had brought up to you at this point.
You seem somewhat confused about my specific questions to you and very angry about trash talking in pvp in general
So let me.recap;
Will those wishing the afore mentioned changes to pvp still be blaiming others after said changes take effect but their gameplay does not change?
Has anyone who has played PvP ever been insilted by me in a match?
Have I ever insulted you in pvp in a match?
Will egoes still rule players attitudes over sportsmanship?
As to the rest of your posting, I have no idea what leap of subject matter you have taken to get to it our its relation to what I have continue to ask, though I do think its more a personal aproach on your part to try to obfiscate the content with out really answering the questions.
I will recap in turn:
You're doing a spectacular waltz with yourself, scoring massive margins of points in a confusing game that only you seem to have the rulebook for, and you're standing in the winner's circle you've set up, wringing your hands in triumph and at this point I'm scratching my head.
I peek into PVP from time to time and attitudes remain toxic. I do not even speak in /zone or elsewhere but the "kids got reckd" talk is still present.
Yeah i'll second that sentiment. The current PVP "atmosphere" is toxic. I no longer queue in the "Arena" queues due to full out pre mades or partial pug premades going into those queues and stomping all over the pugs. There only so much grav well, tractor, pet, sci and other general types of spam one can take before your screen just becomes a multicolour swap-shop and ya cant see anything to shoot at it.
When ya complain about the pre-mades or partial premades the general answer from the ONCE friendly OrganisedPVP channel is either "learn to play" or "make your own team". These big fleets and well known PVP'ers don't realize that it is their OWN actions which is driving the final nail in the coffin of any semblance of reality for PVP in Star Trek Online. It is their own willingness to "pug stomp" the queues and then laugh at them in zone chat or OPVP chat which has not only driven me away from the Arena queues, but a whole lot of other people I used to know who played in the arena.
The chest beaters in OPVP come up with the argument of "but theirs NEVER been SO MANY people playing PVP!"
...they class 30 odd people in 3 queues as "many". 30 compared to how many TENS of THOUSANDS who log into this game on a weekly basis? They are living in a glass house, and that glass is rose tinted.
It has now got to the stage where the bulk of my time in STO is spent playing PVE content, and i used to spend a good 3 or 4 hours in the PVP queues... but not anymore.
Its mostly the fault of Cryptic for neglecting PVP for so many years. For constant promises year in, year out by the lead liar... sorry... developer of new PVP content. For the constant dangling of a carrot to the dwindling PVP playerbase of the next season being the "PVP Season". This has trickled down to the remaining PVP player base, some of when do have a community spirit towards other players.
However the vast majority of them are nothing more than chest beaters who take pride in going up against unorganized or under performing random groups in the queue, who laugh in zone chat to possible future PVP players to such an extent that these possible future PVP players and put off of PVP in this game completely.
These same chest beating morons in the arena queues are whats now killing PVP, and its these same chest beating morons that Cryptic need to take into account if they ever do overhaul the PVP system. Cryptic need to bring PVP to the masses. The current system does not, and never will.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Yeah i'll second that sentiment. The current PVP "atmosphere" is toxic. I no longer queue in the "Arena" queues due to full out pre mades or partial pug premades going into those queues and stomping all over the pugs. There only so much grav well, tractor, pet, sci and other general types of spam one can take before your screen just becomes a multicolour swap-shop and ya cant see anything to shoot at it.
When ya complain about the pre-mades or partial premades the general answer from the ONCE friendly OrganisedPVP channel is either "learn to play" or "make your own team". These big fleets and well known PVP'ers don't realize that it is their OWN actions which is driving the final nail in the coffin of any semblance of reality for PVP in Star Trek Online. It is their own willingness to "pug stomp" the queues and then laugh at them in zone chat or OPVP chat which has not only driven me away from the Arena queues, but a whole lot of other people I used to know who played in the arena.
The chest beaters in OPVP come up with the argument of "but theirs NEVER been SO MANY people playing PVP!"
...they class 30 odd people in 3 queues as "many". 30 compared to how many TENS of THOUSANDS who log into this game on a weekly basis? They are living in a glass house, and that glass is rose tinted.
It has now got to the stage where the bulk of my time in STO is spent playing PVE content, and i used to spend a good 3 or 4 hours in the PVP queues... but not anymore.
Its mostly the fault of Cryptic for neglecting PVP for so many years. For constant promises year in, year out by the lead liar... sorry... developer of new PVP content. For the constant dangling of a carrot to the dwindling PVP playerbase of the next season being the "PVP Season". This has trickled down to the remaining PVP player base, some of when do have a community spirit towards other players.
However the vast majority of them are nothing more than chest beaters who take pride in going up against unorganized or under performing random groups in the queue, who laugh in zone chat to possible future PVP players to such an extent that these possible future PVP players and put off of PVP in this game completely.
These same chest beating morons in the arena queues are whats now killing PVP, and its these same chest beating morons that Cryptic need to take into account if they ever do overhaul the PVP system. Cryptic need to bring PVP to the masses. The current system does not, and never will.
According to the "biteme" guy, our anecdotes have no weight or bearing because he has anecdotes. And presumably, if more of us say that it is one way and he says it is another, clearly we are just numerous rabble to him and (insert personal attacks here).
PVEers are put off by PVP, and it is quite self-evident why in many cases. Simply dismissing it over and over again, or even blaming the PVEer for not liking the culture or the bloated min-max imbalances, is laughable.
I tried PvP again last night, pug'ed a FvF. I really want to like PvP but the furball nature of PvP just isn't fun for me. Ships with thousands of crew zipping around like tiny fighters seems incredibly absurd.
As much as I found Star Trek: Legacy to be... lacking, at least the ships behaved like large ships. I'm fine with BoPs and Defiants zipping around (still should be reduced a bit) but Warbirds and Avengers, please.
Not really sure what could or should be done about it since this is just one person's opinion.
The Rewards for Pvp are just not enough , to draw me to play and justify the cost to compete.
not 20k EC that i got yesterday for 25mins if i did the daily yeah i would get a little more but i did an STF yesterday that took 8mins
I got 940 dil , 500 for the marks turned in , and 1000 for the 6BNPs i got
so I was lucky with the BNP's but I got 2440 Dilithium for 8 mins .
Thats why i don't play PVP.
Now if the rewards for random or had some nice drops ( still with a low drop rate chance id play ) i.e. lock box keys 1000 refined dilithium , Mark packs , I think more and more people would play PVP and maybe some of the other dailies other like the big dig or breaking the planet , but lets be honest , there are just no rewards only reps.
20k PVP reward , or an engine drop work 50k if u get rid of it in the replicator ????
According to the "biteme" guy, our anecdotes have no weight or bearing because he has anecdotes. And presumably, if more of us say that it is one way and he says it is another, clearly we are just numerous rabble to him and (insert personal attacks here).
PVEers are put off by PVP, and it is quite self-evident why in many cases. Simply dismissing it over and over again, or even blaming the PVEer for not liking the culture or the bloated min-max imbalances, is laughable.
I have made no claim that pvp is anything at all. I certainly never made the claim that your anecdotes had no weight or bearing. I have merely stated they had nothing to do with my original question below.
I asked a question and you ran in a completely different direction from what I asked of the thread.
Then you made claims like the above that I never made. I never said PvP was not full of trash talking - I said I have never trash talked in pvp.
I never made any claim to about the existing nature of pvp at all. You made the claim that I did when I did not.
I asked one simple question;
but will the new system make the solo nonvet low gear doff ship quality often lacking in teamwork using player happy even when they still fail to win as consistantly as their egoes say they should?
which you ignored answering but did launch a huge tirade about pvp that had nothing to with what I asked, followed by saying I made claims that I never made.
Much like any time anyone says anything you do not like you babble about other content and make false claims rather than address the statements made to you.
But I would argue that it is. While I can appreciate that fleet purples are nice to have, they're not required for PvE. So if you're not playing PvP, the only thing fleet weapons are doing is forcing you to grind for stuff that the playerbase falsely feels are obsolete. Take that away, and what is the point of having a starbase. To spend a ridiculous amount of dilithium, and other resources, on fishtanks, and banners. Stuff that should be done on the individual level for ship interiors. I won't even get into the argument that fleet starbases, let alone fleets aren't even canon, at least not in the way STO has implemented them. So, if you remove the fleet vendors from starbases, who sell stuff that you really only need to stomp players with inferior weaponry in PvP, you find that constructing a SB is a pointless endeavor of throwing resources away. All I'm sayin'
The initial point was to give a resource sink to existing fleets and a social area for which to gather as a fleet. Its also a money making and time sink for Cryptic to insure people play the game.
While its true that none of any of the materials anywhere in STO are needed for PvE, many players do enjoy getting the next best item or ship to play with.
As well some fleets whom never pvp use their starbases and the resources it can provide for personal reasons like RP and beating the STFs.
Ultimately though you are right that starbases are just a resource sink.
Comments
That's not the only reason some PvE players avoid PvP.
Indeed... As I said before... I don't need to stroke my ego, by some false sense of accomplishment, while having to read the kiddies whine when they get their butts kicked without being able to slap them.
Aye. Lots of reasons why people don't PvP. Fear of being one-shot by min-maxed builds might apply to some, but it's certainly not everyone. Not even close.
I don't PvP because it's a competitive activity, and I don't engage in competitive activities.
"Make mechanics better" is as imprecise and open to interpretation as "balance the game". The problem is that we can't seem to agree on how to even start this process.
Min-maxers who "got theirs" are likely to fortify their positions that "everything is fine, L2P" and just complain that the PVE peasants are cowards and don't want to be skilled by their skill.
Out and out PVP haters (they do exist) would want PVP removed entirely for obvious reasons.
Middle grounds include removing reputation buffs and the like from PVP, indeed, even going to the extent of stock ships and loadouts (which would work, but boy would the min-maxers hate that), among many other spectrums of offered ideas.
Funny how you directly equate people with young accounts or suboptimal gear/reputation sets as "lacking in teamwork" when they are completely different things with no direct correlation.
Well, that's the "hardcore" PVP mindset. The gear didn't carry them, surely the other side simply didn't work together. :rolleyes:
Funny how you ignore the fact that all those description have been used by those claiming what is wrong with pvp and then say its a hardcore mentality.
Premades ruin pvp for the solo player is one complaint that has been stated...
Vets have more experience and access to better gear due to the time ingame which makes those new to pvp disadvantaged...
The better gear of the vet player makes the new pvper less capable of a player in pvp has been another complaint...
And team woork among the premades designed to work in unison puts the solo new pvper at a risk of not having a chance at victory when said solo new player cant do the same with a pug...
I used the definitions and excuses used by many new and unhappy players through out this thread.
So how will those who look at pvp from under these definitions and excuses react if they are removed and such players still remain at their current level of pvp victory?
Will they be happy or find blaim elsewhere?
Its still a valid question as it stems from the most important part of any competition, the sportsmanship mindset.
R.I.P
Oh and I'm tired of the trash talking trolls that make fun of you when you run away bc you can't handle them and 3 of their teammates but then run away from you when its one on one. I hate the trolling trash talk and the uselessness of tanking cruisers in PvP.
There are so many possibilities; fighting for areas of the map that grant access to special instances, offering buffs or other boons to the side currently winning a particular cyclic engagement, and so on. There are all manner of things large and small that might be done. And so when a game offers precisely zero of those possibilities, it's hard for me to see its PVP as anything but a lost opportunity that falls short of being worthwhile.
Honestly, if you're going to make a war between factions part of the underlying story then it's a little silly to have battles that don't matter, at all, in any measurable way.
R.I.P
If you had an epiphany of self-awareness you might be aware that posts like that, right there, are exactly why PVP is such a lamented minority group in this game. The sense of arrogance and exclusivity and broad generalizations about PVE players does you no service here and is only perpetuating your overlooked status.
Your idea of "sportsmanship" is apparently the e-sport mockery of the idea where people mutter how the other team was "garbage" after some MLG event. It's a rotten attitude that is toxic to game communities.
And if PVP involves being around people like you all the time, frankly, it's a good thing that PVE chugs on just fine without you.
I made no statement that these where or are complaints from PvE'ers. I stated that they are exactly what they are, complaints that have been made by some who are upset with PvP in its current state and of corrected I asked if said individuals would continue to be upset at the system if their pvp experience does not change since no amount of Dev tweaking for balance can make up for a fault of gameplay on the part of any participant.
All in correlation to a sportsmanship mindset.
You have issues about pvp obviuosly and those whom enjoy it to see my question as a hardcore or elitist statement meant to keep others down or show superiority of pvpers.
I have never played any pvp and ridiculed any player for their lack or abundance of skill before, during or after a match.
I think you doth protest too much.
R.I.P
"I don't understand you or claim I don't therefore you are babbling" and "you must be traumatized by people you don't agree with" are poor rhetorical tools.
Plus, you're justifying things based off an anecdote, which I can only assume you would not afford to someone disagreeing with you.
Here, I'll test it right now. I've seen some very ugly and toxic smack being thrown around in PVP matches, even while the match was still underway, the worst of it after the biggest smacktalker cloaked and wandered off to ragepost instead of continuing to play.
I take it you have some heirarchial explanation for why your anecdote is more valid than mine? :rolleyes:
Except its not. Starbase building is a fleet event and can be enjoyed as mch by the PvE fleet as the PvP fleet.
R.I.P
Yes babblng. Because you made assumptions about my intent based on whatever grievance you have against me is all I can believe.
You call me unaware, arragant and elitist towards pve'ers when I never specifcally targeted them in my post and them babbled some more about me being part of the trash talk issue, that exists as much in pve as it does in pvp, even though I have done no such trash talking.
Something that has a lot to do with sportsmanship and ego. As they say the wounded dog barks loudest and you are the only one I see barking.
So yes I think your views against me are more personal and have less to do with the issue at hand.
But go ahead be a dck and act the asain manga groupie again just because you seem to get some jollies out of trying to harras me, it doesnt change my question or concern.
Will those players whom are upset at pvp still be upset after pvp is balanced to their demands if they continue to have a poor pvp gaming experience?
R.I.P
Yo dawg I heard you liked personal attacks so I made personal attacks about what I think were personal attacks?
The burden's on you, here. PVP needs PVEers to be interested a lot more than PVEers need PVPers to be interested in PVP. Being smug, presuming in some bully-like fashion the psychology of your "enemies" and attacking them as such only hurts your position.
I like personal attacks??? Find any player whom playes pvp or has tried pvp, if even once, that has ever had a foul, ridiculing or dark remark directed at them come from me before, durng or afer a match.
They do not exist. Ive never even badmouthed a premade after being trounced much less any player for playing pvp, wether I win or lose to them.
As to the forums, its a TRIBBLE for tat affair. Be civil and you get civility from me. Act or even give the impression therwise and I respond in kind.
R.I.P
You asked for one, and you got one. Me.
You used an anecdote to defend your position, and I am doing the same. I leveled up to 50 on my first KDF character (out of 3) almost exclusively on early game PVP, back when Reverse Shield Polarity was absolutely necessary (and people would say "its fine L2P" refusing to change mechanics back then too). Even with that issue, it was fun, fedballs versys swarms of cloaked KDF ships, and I was often the one that would decloak first, just to force the others to chase me and break formation, and that was the chemistry of early PVP. Mines and warp plasma and birds of prey darting in and out of it trying not to get focus-fire on them.
I peek into PVP from time to time and attitudes remain toxic. I do not even speak in /zone or elsewhere but the "kids got reckd" talk is still present.
Well and good that you don't see it. I do. Either we're simply finding different things or one of us is a liar. And to simply say "you're a liar" is presumptive, isn't it?
I'm willing to believe you just haven't been in the matches I have.
Really? Ive personaly insulted you in pvp before? (which was my question-not a statement that trash talking doesnt exist in pvp)
Untrue, as I have never insulted or trash talked anyone in a match. ever. The least that I chat is GG. The most is " had fun, good game".
As to antedotes, sportsmanship is real and egoes spoil it. Even in virtual sports like pvp.
This is why I have many times said in the past that ego has no place in pvp.
You just seem to pick fights against other posters for no good reason and Im not the only one to notices it. Whatever floats your boat.
R.I.P
PVPers have. And since your anecdotes have included statements of how civil and genteel PVPers are (and in earlier threads, how surly and terrible PVEers are by contrast), I was speaking about PVPers and my experience queueing with them. You're splitting hairs here and I think you know better.
I will continue to disagree no matter how you frame it about this. Saying "I see lots of GGs being a jerk has no place in PVP" does not invalidate the experiences of many, many people here, myself included, that have seen otherwise.
Of course you can go on saying that only your anecdotes matter, but that would be silly, right?
Did you not understand that when I asked if I had ever insulted you (or anyone else) in pvp? Or that if someone treats me with civility in the forums I respond in kind?
You seem to be arguing about a subject different from what I had brought up to you at this point.
You seem somewhat confused about my specific questions to you and very angry about trash talking in pvp in general
So let me.recap;
Will those wishing the afore mentioned changes to pvp still be blaiming others after said changes take effect but their gameplay does not change?
Has anyone who has played PvP ever been insilted by me in a match?
Have I ever insulted you in pvp in a match?
Will egoes still rule players attitudes over sportsmanship?
As to the rest of your posting, I have no idea what leap of subject matter you have taken to get to it our its relation to what I have continue to ask, though I do think its more a personal aproach on your part to try to obfiscate the content with out really answering the questions.
R.I.P
I will recap in turn:
You're doing a spectacular waltz with yourself, scoring massive margins of points in a confusing game that only you seem to have the rulebook for, and you're standing in the winner's circle you've set up, wringing your hands in triumph and at this point I'm scratching my head.
What was this thread about?
Yeah i'll second that sentiment. The current PVP "atmosphere" is toxic. I no longer queue in the "Arena" queues due to full out pre mades or partial pug premades going into those queues and stomping all over the pugs. There only so much grav well, tractor, pet, sci and other general types of spam one can take before your screen just becomes a multicolour swap-shop and ya cant see anything to shoot at it.
When ya complain about the pre-mades or partial premades the general answer from the ONCE friendly OrganisedPVP channel is either "learn to play" or "make your own team". These big fleets and well known PVP'ers don't realize that it is their OWN actions which is driving the final nail in the coffin of any semblance of reality for PVP in Star Trek Online. It is their own willingness to "pug stomp" the queues and then laugh at them in zone chat or OPVP chat which has not only driven me away from the Arena queues, but a whole lot of other people I used to know who played in the arena.
The chest beaters in OPVP come up with the argument of "but theirs NEVER been SO MANY people playing PVP!"
...they class 30 odd people in 3 queues as "many". 30 compared to how many TENS of THOUSANDS who log into this game on a weekly basis? They are living in a glass house, and that glass is rose tinted.
It has now got to the stage where the bulk of my time in STO is spent playing PVE content, and i used to spend a good 3 or 4 hours in the PVP queues... but not anymore.
Its mostly the fault of Cryptic for neglecting PVP for so many years. For constant promises year in, year out by the lead liar... sorry... developer of new PVP content. For the constant dangling of a carrot to the dwindling PVP playerbase of the next season being the "PVP Season". This has trickled down to the remaining PVP player base, some of when do have a community spirit towards other players.
However the vast majority of them are nothing more than chest beaters who take pride in going up against unorganized or under performing random groups in the queue, who laugh in zone chat to possible future PVP players to such an extent that these possible future PVP players and put off of PVP in this game completely.
These same chest beating morons in the arena queues are whats now killing PVP, and its these same chest beating morons that Cryptic need to take into account if they ever do overhaul the PVP system. Cryptic need to bring PVP to the masses. The current system does not, and never will.
According to the "biteme" guy, our anecdotes have no weight or bearing because he has anecdotes. And presumably, if more of us say that it is one way and he says it is another, clearly we are just numerous rabble to him and (insert personal attacks here).
PVEers are put off by PVP, and it is quite self-evident why in many cases. Simply dismissing it over and over again, or even blaming the PVEer for not liking the culture or the bloated min-max imbalances, is laughable.
As much as I found Star Trek: Legacy to be... lacking, at least the ships behaved like large ships. I'm fine with BoPs and Defiants zipping around (still should be reduced a bit) but Warbirds and Avengers, please.
Not really sure what could or should be done about it since this is just one person's opinion.
not 20k EC that i got yesterday for 25mins if i did the daily yeah i would get a little more but i did an STF yesterday that took 8mins
I got 940 dil , 500 for the marks turned in , and 1000 for the 6BNPs i got
so I was lucky with the BNP's but I got 2440 Dilithium for 8 mins .
Thats why i don't play PVP.
Now if the rewards for random or had some nice drops ( still with a low drop rate chance id play ) i.e. lock box keys 1000 refined dilithium , Mark packs , I think more and more people would play PVP and maybe some of the other dailies other like the big dig or breaking the planet , but lets be honest , there are just no rewards only reps.
20k PVP reward , or an engine drop work 50k if u get rid of it in the replicator ????
I have made no claim that pvp is anything at all. I certainly never made the claim that your anecdotes had no weight or bearing. I have merely stated they had nothing to do with my original question below.
I asked a question and you ran in a completely different direction from what I asked of the thread.
Then you made claims like the above that I never made. I never said PvP was not full of trash talking - I said I have never trash talked in pvp.
I never made any claim to about the existing nature of pvp at all. You made the claim that I did when I did not.
I asked one simple question;
which you ignored answering but did launch a huge tirade about pvp that had nothing to with what I asked, followed by saying I made claims that I never made.
Much like any time anyone says anything you do not like you babble about other content and make false claims rather than address the statements made to you.
R.I.P
The initial point was to give a resource sink to existing fleets and a social area for which to gather as a fleet. Its also a money making and time sink for Cryptic to insure people play the game.
While its true that none of any of the materials anywhere in STO are needed for PvE, many players do enjoy getting the next best item or ship to play with.
As well some fleets whom never pvp use their starbases and the resources it can provide for personal reasons like RP and beating the STFs.
Ultimately though you are right that starbases are just a resource sink.
R.I.P