To the PVE community, Why don't you PVP?

mcduffie369

I know a lot of good reasons not to pvp, but I would like to hear yours.
In space it is hard to defend against the hordes of players abusing g-well, faw, and sensor spam. Worse yet a full premade team of players who do that.
On ground, the pvp players simply have more skill points and traits invested in ground. Worse yet, a 5 man team of players who are ground spec and still feel the need to exploit, run broken sci officers, and cloak gank players with half their skill points invested even though such extreme measures are not called for.
A lone player who enters without a full team of seasoned pvp players is guaranteed a demoralizing and severe loss to a premade team. The chances of encountering these teams are far too high due to the limited number of pvp participants, but it is also the fault of these teams and fleets for running the pve majority out of the Q with their barbaric play style.
Could it be that pvp in this game is not fun and only exists for the sake of existing or feeling hard core? What would it take to get you interested in pvp? I would like to add that players from the pvp minority are not welcome on this thread. It is not for you. This thread is to find the opinions of the casual, pve majority.

questerius

Lousy community, abusive chat, and as close as P2W as you can get in this game.

If there was some sort of PVP with standard builds going into the match i might consider it, but as it is today they may as well remove it from the game.

ashkrik23

I PVP on and off but am mainly a PVE player for this game. The only real issue I have with most PVP in any game are the elitests.

chalpen

I sat in Kerrat for two years. Hours and Hours a day.
I left the minute 'power creep' and magic consoles started to appear.

You have to understand, as a KDF Cryptic doesnt' really want my money. So it release a trickle of "power creep" and magic consoles to us.
So as a KDF, I am hilariously unable to play pvp with feds and their 3 ship packs and more special consoles.

Next: Why I am fighting the feds anyways? And the feds that I am fighting are not feds from Star Trek. They are whiney children. It ruins the star trek experience for me.
Any Fed who says "LOLwhut?" makes me think they couldn't have went through NOT ONLY starfleet academy, but primary school.

That is why

coupaholic

Wasn't there a massive thread asking the same question only a week or so ago?

I think we all know the reasons by now.

mcduffie369

coupaholic wrote: »

Wasn't there a massive thread asking the same question only a week or so ago?

I think we all know the reasons by now.

I am not aware of that thread.

mcduffie369

questerius wrote: »

Lousy community, abusive chat.

I can not help but to agree with you. I was part of that community for a long time. I saw it up close.

mcduffie369

chalpen wrote: »

I sat in Kerrat for two years. Hours and Hours a day.
I left the minute 'power creep' and magic consoles started to appear.

Yes, space pvp is far too cluttered with abilities and has lost the original concept of downing an opponents shields and then striking them with a torpedo.

hippiejon

No variation.
None at all.
That's why I don't play PVP.
Space or Ground.

I have no interest in proving who has the better set up, or more money to buy the best toys. To me that's nothing but essentially EPeen comparisons.

What would draw me into PvP would be if there was something like in the Dyson Sphere where in some players captured a thing that it affected the match somehow. Something on the maps that gave me something to do. That gives anyone for whom blasting your enemy isn't the end all of the match something to do, and feel useful.

Secondly, it's the power creep. Those of you who have been PvPing for a long time have all the great expensive toys and wonky powers. Some of us don't give a rat's behind about the newest shiny toy, or ridiculous power. We just want to fly around and pew pew casually.
There is no such thing as "casual PvP". You are all geared to the teeth with overpowered, expensive gear, purchased to continue being better than the next guy and either exploit or use the latest trick/bug/whatever.
For those of us who don't care about such things, we can never compete. So it is not even fun. FUN is why I play this game.

Lastly, the community I have encountered is acerbic, rude, mean, and generally unwelcoming. Insults all the time. People telling me to go back to PvE because I'm worthless in PvP , etc etc.
Now, not every player I have encountered has such an attitude. Some have been helpful and friendly, but that is the minority. I will say I truly appreciate when one of the PvP crowd takes a moment to say "Hey, thanks for PvPing. I noticed X about what happened in the match with your ship. Want to chat? I have some advice." That has happened twice.
TWICE in two years. Every other PvP experience has been rotten. To bad that recently I have seen both those players post what are essentially "I quit" threads recently. They themselves got fed up with STO's PvP both from what the company puts into it, and the community. The PvP that occurs on the forums between PvPers and PvP guilds also is VERY offputting. I have no desire to roll with folks like that.

So, back to my PvE. Lot's of stuff I have FUN doing there. And as I said, for me that's why I play the game, FUN. Nothing about PvP as it stands , is "fun" to me.


Peace

saxfire

Oh we do do PvP, we just don't do that so often cuz the PvP community starts to whine most of the time when we vape them with our PvE specs... amd then the queques get empty... and that's so much fun waiting to get new people to fight with when the leavers tell their friends how they got vaped by PvE heroes aka exploiters.

Edit: Atleast it used to whine alot, these days some just beam out straight away or accept their fate, or don't pvp at all.

coupaholic

mcduffie369 wrote: »

I am not aware of that thread.

Here you go.

I fear the same thing will repeat here too. This comparison between PvP and PvE always gets blasted out of proportion.

johngazman

questerius wrote: »

Lousy community, abusive chat, and as close as P2W as you can get in this game.

This. Oh, and the fact that PvP in STO is ultimately pointless.

aloishammer

ashkrik23 wrote: »

The only real issue I have with most PVP in any game are the elitests.

This. The reason I don't PvP is...the most vocal and visible among those who do.

The insane entry level (anything less than 99% optimal ship build = so bad that being "cannon fodder" would be a massive upgrade) doesn't help either, but first and foremost is the toxic "me so leet, u such a n00b" players.

coupaholic wrote: »

Wasn't there a massive thread asking the same question only a week or so ago?

Yep. And once it stopped staying on page 1, this one appeared. And once this one stops hovering on page 1, another will appear.

War. War never changes.

mcduffie369

hippiejon wrote: »

What would draw me into PvP would be if there was something like in the Dyson Sphere where in some players captured a thing that it affected the match somehow. Something on the maps that gave me something to do. That gives anyone for whom blasting your enemy isn't the end all of the match something to do, and feel useful.
There is no such thing as "casual PvP". You are all geared to the teeth with overpowered, expensive gear, purchased to continue being better than the next guy and either exploit or use the latest trick/bug/whatever.
Lastly, the community I have encountered is acerbic, rude, mean, and generally unwelcoming. Insults all the time. People telling me to go back to PvE because I'm worthless in PvP , etc etc.
Now, not every player I have encountered has such an attitude. The PvP that occurs on the forums between PvPers and PvP guilds also is VERY offputting. I have no desire to roll with folks like that.

I know exactly what you mean.

mcduffie369

What if there where a way to bypass playing against premade teams and encourage people to play space and ground opposed to one or the other? Would that help?

aloishammer

mcduffie369 wrote: »

What if there where a way to bypass playing against premade teams and encourage people to play space and ground opposed to one or the other? Would that help?

Would it get rid of all the self-important "me so leet, me stomped u u weak n00b" troglodytes? Would it make you survive better against the leetster who's spent the last 3 years obtaining every last item to increase his/her power by that last fraction of a percent no matter what it cost them?

The obvious answer to both is "No, it wouldn't." And as such the answer to "Would that help" is obviously also "No, it wouldn't."

It would mean facing the same toxic repellents in smaller doses is all.

jumpingjs

Because funbys like me don't care about DMG


So when I do play ... I end up worsening the team off than helping them.



Oh and also ... there maybe little point, but since there are few maps, it does get repetitive.

hippiejon

What might be nice is some kind of "combat score" or "combat rating" based upon your gear, so that people of similar power were matched against each other.

And to reply to your Question. I agree with AloisHammer. A big part of the issue is the attitude and rude, demeaning nature of the majority of PvP players towards those of us who want to try it casually.

Doesn't matter if it's set up to be more fair power wise, team wise or whatever. So long as the perception of the PvP community remains that they are rude and unwelcoming, sometimes downright insulting and mean, you will not change the minds of many PvE players that PvP os worth it.

I play a game to have fun with friends. I do not play a game to read abusive nonsense from others supposedly also playing for fun. If someone's idea of "fun" is trash talking their opponents in rude, belittling ways, I don't want to play with them.

Would your idea of bypassing premades help ?

Maybe a little bit. People tend to act more like ***holes when travelling in a pack, where otherwise they might not be such a rude ***.

macronius

I PvP and it is the only thing keeping me in this game. PvE is so utterly boring and content release are so negligible. That said I understand why people hate it.

1. Hugely time consuming in terms of prep work and expensive
A. Get fleet ship, 10 console c store or lock box
B. Get all reps maxed
C. Get the best rep and fleet gear
D. Spend lots of time researching builds and min - maxing

2. Community is horrid. Okay so there are plenty of helpful players but also many trolls and annoying children.

3. Premades and cheese consoles. Rotfl stomping of pugs queue

4. Total lack of balance and little variety in builds.
A. Cannon or BO Vape
B. FAW spam bot
C. Lock box heal bots

jodarkrider

I don't PvP, because I play other rather competitive game for last three years, and well, when I go to STO, it's to enjoy story, laughs with some kicks and to relax... not to deal with competition here and possible immaturity with the individuals.

hypl

I honestly can't stand the e-peen stench. Sure, PvE has it too but it doesn't reek as horridly as in the PvP community.

baudl

no mentionable reward system
zero diversity...since combat is in free space and mostly just a brawl
balance?
no storyelement behind it...fed klingon war? what a joke!

kerrat has potential to mix PVE elements with PVP...combat zone style mission where you had a mission to acomplish and the "enemy" would try to hinder you completing it.
That would actually make interesting PVP

lordvalecortez

I PvPed before, back at the dawn of time. Gets boring quick, the map pool has actually shrunk, and the map modes are so sad. There is no leader board, and no story or motivation from a lore point of view.

blznfun

The PVP community wants their "cookie cutter" builds and they don't' want to change to adapt to the new stuff. When new stuff comes along to make PVP enjoyable for the whole community, they whine, cry nerf and it gets dumbed down.

Certain people give the PVP community too much credit and just take their word for it. As my sig says..."The PVP community is ruining STO!" and I stand by that.... I have been saying this for a year now.


PvP is awesome in this game, but alas, we only play it within the confines of our fleet. Outside of that there is too much drama and whining.

mimey2

hippiejon wrote: »

There is no such thing as "casual PvP".

You are right, there is no such thing as 'casual PvP', and I think that Cryptic wants that, but as long as they keep adding power creep to the game, they will never have it.

Y'know, PvP was actually at it's easiest to start and learn back in like season 5 or so, with the STF revamp. Sure getting Mk XII consoles was a pain in the TRIBBLE, but it was said you could level a toon in a weekend, and gear it out good enough for PvP within a week. Dare I say it was even 'casual' as long as you know what you needed to do in PvP.

But nowadays, with just HOW much stuff is in the game, it can't be casual, the discrepancy is simply too large.

Even if you take out ALL the 'evil' premades, all the 'veterans', all the asses that can be in a PvP match...eventually a new generation would rise up. Humans against other humans are very competitive. Even if every PvPer currently in the game was gone, and all the information they had vanished for good, people would figure things out again eventually. New jerks would be seen, new premades would eventually form, and so on.

Eventually it would be right back to where we are. Cryptic has tried to make this game very casual, which by itself is fine. But they've also made it easy, which can also be fine. BUT they did do one very bad thing: They didn't really teach their players.

Think about it. How much do the tutorials REALLY teach players? It does teach some basics, true. But does it teach things like..."Running two tactical team on a ship is a good way to help increase your survivability." or "Using various tactical buffs before attacking an enemy is a good way to quickly and effectively kill them if playing a tactical officer."

And so on.

I'm not going to deny the community issues that exist in PvPers. But Cryptic cannot make this game casual and expect the PvP to be 'casual' because with every new fleet holding, with every new rep, with every new lockbox, every new DOFF pack (and probably other stuff I am forgetting) they choose to increase the wall between those who want to do anything, and those who already have it all done.



They'd have to be willing to do SOMETHING for PvP. Either teach players more somehow in the game, or remove the need that you have to have all the best stuff, including rep, ships, gear, DOFFs, etc, and equal the playing ground more. Then skill would be the better applying factor, and not all that stuff.

thlaylierah

I've always felt that magic has no place in Star Trek.

The various Sci powers slotted in to fill the spell book of the STO mage class are completely wrong.

If one could control gravity well enough to create an aimable gravity well, then they wouldn't even need a warp drive.

Tractor beams on smaller craft would be torn from their mounts when used on larger starships, especially ones in motion.

Too bad Cryptic couldn't have been progressive instead of following the tired old MMO trope of fighter, thief and mage.

Maybe if they required emitters for all these magic powers and those emitters took up weapons slots.

And what is with giving Sci ships all four Beam target Powers for free on top of everything else?

Obviously when they were designing classes the dev who made up the Sci class waited until management was asleep to OP their favorite class.

terrafuria

I have never played PvP. Never had an interest if I can be very Honest. I am a F2P player, had some many problems with the game I am not looking to invest yet.

I have still not interest in PvP. Played in clan wars in other games and the elitist rubbish in those has put me off for life.

mcduffie369

blznfun wrote: »

The PVP community wants their "cookie cutter" builds and they don't' want to change to adapt to the new stuff. When new stuff comes along to make PVP enjoyable for the whole community, they whine, cry nerf and it gets dumbed down.

Definitely, I refuse to be part of the cookie cutter scene.

mcduffie369

hippiejon wrote: »

Would your idea of bypassing premades help ?

Maybe a little bit. People tend to act more like ***holes when travelling in a pack, where otherwise they might not be such a rude ***.

Also, you would have a equal chance at a good team.

oschw

Only reason is, im not patient enough for the long wait times in the que

mcduffie369

oschw wrote: »

Only reason is, im not patient enough for the long wait times in the que

The Q would not be so bad if it were not for the pvp fleets and pvp extremists running the general community away.