Fair enough. I do hope i conveyed my understanding that it was not your intent to condescend.
On this we are in complete agreement.
However, PvP usually changes at the moment due to the introduction of a new ship or power, or a tweaking of a doff or something.
An influx of new players would be a different type of innovation.
Let's take me as an example.
I have a Vulcan tactical officer, level 50.
She has a fleet tactical escort, all phaser fleet or reputation weaponry. Same for space set, all mk XII rep.
For consoles she has a lot of nice fleet stuff and a mixture of purple Mk X and XI phaser relays.
Skills, boffs and doffs are set reasonably well.
She breezes through elite STF content quite happily, of course.
Now, if I were the sort of person who currently plays PvP i would, at this point, be testing her out at Kerrat, tweaking the build and saving towards purple Mk XII phaser relays.
However, I'm not.
Instead I imagined her fleet admiral called her in and explained that, because diplomacy, she has to fly a D'kyr science vessel for a while.
Now, I do not for one second want to suggest that my Vulcan wouldnt get better playing more PvP, the opposite is surely true.
PvP would clearly refine the buld, test the concepts and, eventually, settle into something competitive.
Point is, why?
A significent portion of the PvP community will actively troll me.
Another portion, that overlaps a bit, will just gank me.
Others will want to take me to one side and earnestly explain to me how they got better.
Barely anyone will respect me the way I am.
The monoculture in PvP extends to the process, as much as the builds.
It's an inevitable consequence of min/maxing.
However, if cryptic put a moderate amount of effort in (not a seasons worth by any means), if the PvP community engage in a little productive navel gazing, and if the PvE community do the same.......then we might get to the place we all, i think, want to be.
A vibrant, exciting PvP element to the game that welcomes players of all levels and abilities and actively discourages the worse behaviours of some few players.
Unfortunately trolling and ego trips and armchair rage is the norm in online games, not just STO. Look at ESD zone chat for example.
I used to get annoyed by them, but afterall a while, what's the point of getting trolled when the way to avoid it is to ignore them, they soon get bored of you and move to another victim. Their main aim is to get a reaction from you such as rage quitting, rage talk and then they will have you for breakfast. That's nature of the beast whether in Kerrat or PVP.
We used to have an infamous PVPer when annoyed, who would cloak up and just trash talk for the rest of the match causing his team to be one man down.
Ultimately we can't control other's behaviour, only frown upon it or isolate them to ensure that kind of behaviour is not acceptable.
point is all these different experiance will indeed expose you and hopefully make your skin thicker and in some respects improve your ship too, which isn't a bad thing. PVP is also a choice and you can dam well fly whatever you want, I like to fly my Sci ships and healers as well in the queues.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
The PVP community wants their "cookie cutter" builds and they don't' want to change to adapt to the new stuff. When new stuff comes along to make PVP enjoyable for the whole community, they whine, cry nerf and it gets dumbed down.
Certain people give the PVP community too much credit and just take their word for it. As my sig says..."The PVP community is ruining STO!" and I stand by that.... I have been saying this for a year now.
You've been wrong for years. The strength of one's conviction has no bearing on the veracity of their beliefs. Wrong is wrong. The devs have repeatedly asserted that they do not nerf for PvP. Their credibility aside, when has anything been done for PvP? If, they devs are willing to upset the playerbase by nerfing items to balance PvP, don't you think they would also respond to the many other requests that have been made in regard to PvP?
I'm normally an avid PvPer, who has done heavy PvP in most MMORPGs I've played. From this I do know the basics that hold over pretty much every game: It's a dog-eat-dog world and you should better bring a fully optimized build or suffer. The connected challenge is something I enjoy and when I commit to it I do it fully.
There are two main reasons I don't PvP in STO: First, I don't have my usual pvp crew with me here. Solo PvP is already painful enough on its own and even worse when you get paired against premades. And second, I have always played STO very relaxed and casually. Which isn't compatible with my pvp mindset.
Once in a while, I do get an itch to at least try it out. Thus I head to the PvP subforums to gather some information about builds and the metagame, because that kind of information is jsut necessary for me to enjoy PvP. And then I find out how vital my usual support group is, not just in playing together, but also to discuss and develop builds. I don't think that the pvpers in STO are worse than in other games, but the dismissive attitude and rampant trolling stinks just the same.
tl;dr I don't PvP in STO, because I don't want to (again) sift through the usually toxic community to find the people I actually enjoy playing with.
yes the flames that fire with malcontent can be bad and the community of trolls large.. when that isn't bad enough, KDF "acquire" our things in a "friendly" fight to the death.. this makes little sense to me as a productive use of time when all the whole of works like " my toy is better than yours" even though they look the same,fly the same, build the same, tweak and learn the same. It got BORING the same. THAT is why I don't PVP..... It was tooo " uncustomizable* for me. I like to skilttles boat and they are NOT welcomed AT ALL.. EVEN though you CAN do it ... and I have.... and i have beat PVPs.. I did it just to see if I could out of said boredom.. then quit when the "inventive ingenuity" of my cleverness was met with the trolls bells and the "it isn't a cookie so it doesn't dunk the same dps" remarks of yore.
If I wanted to be warmed by flames, I would be by a fireplace... I would pvp casual.. and was told "it is seriously not possible" yet I did it.. and beat more formidable as a LEVEL 30 character taking out T5 Lifers with said "shineys" and never once used a mod or glitch, hack, or exploit in my path of winning. I left because the "community" said I had to be cheating.... instead of "how did you do that, will you train me?" I think I made my point clear by leaving so that I could do more productive things than watching the new skin on a fleet model rollout reproduction zstore clone drone ship be "shiney and new" and killed over and over over, and over again to learn you can... Guess what? kill it! LMAO
All these Ideas about segregation of Queues may be helpful...
BUT... I still don't have the time nor the patience to go searching for the two nuns when attending a Clothing-is-prohibited Playboy Party.
Anything that has been presented so far is good on the paper but are doomed to failure with PvP Communities because they WILL seize these new Option and they WILL derail them completely for their amusement.
People won't suddenly change... all this might add are new squishy targets and don't come over with that TRIBBLE "PvPers don't like easy pickings" those two Nuns might not like it but the general population seems to be really really enamoured with the Idea of Gank Squads, I still shudder when I think back to the olden days in Stranglethorn Vale...
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I find it commendable that some might want to help... but I must ask why are PvPers coming over here and trying to lecture us about PvP?
It's NOT about those that are already in...
This is... or better was about those that are not playing that part of the game, why they don't play it and about how WE might be enticed to play it.
All you do is to derail this thread and make looking for Ideas or further discussion on those really hard.
I sat in Kerrat for two years. Hours and Hours a day.
I left the minute 'power creep' and magic consoles started to appear.
You have to understand, as a KDF Cryptic doesnt' really want my money. So it release a trickle of "power creep" and magic consoles to us.
So as a KDF, I am hilariously unable to play pvp with feds and their 3 ship packs and more special consoles.
Next: Why I am fighting the feds anyways? And the feds that I am fighting are not feds from Star Trek. They are whiney children. It ruins the star trek experience for me.
Any Fed who says "LOLwhut?" makes me think they couldn't have went through NOT ONLY starfleet academy, but primary school.
That is why
Erm, this right there.
People with this kind of narrow-minded attitude. Geez. There are a lot of players on the KDF side that are just as horrible. Just not as many, simply because there are fewer KDF players to begin with! Duh.
Btw I play both Fed and KDF side. And of course there is the Fed equivalent for this hostile chest-beating.
Apart from that it's the lack of documentation, the lack of balance, the lack of proper PvP game modes / matchmaking, and the sheer amount of bugs and loopholes, which keeps me from doing 'serious business' here in this game.
I've had my fill of the TRIBBLE associated with PvP in plenty of other games, both in console "multiplayer" and on PC. After sampling PvP in STO, and seeing some of the same garbage, I figured I would save myself the time and headache. Combined with the weak execution of competitive multiplayer in this game, STO's PvP sucks harder than a ten dollar wh**e at a Shriner's convention. So, I have no real desire to engage in PvP in Star Trek Online. Co-Op and solo are more my style anyway.
People won't suddenly change... all this might add are new squishy targets and don't come over with that TRIBBLE "PvPers don't like easy pickings" those two Nuns might not like it but the general population seems to be really really enamoured with the Idea of Gank Squads
If the 'balancing' (or lack of it) is there to make ganking possible, there will always be gankers, we've all been there. As Gohan has said, all you can do is ignore them and use the experience to improve your ship, aside from frowning upon it and making them feel unwelcome in public pvp channels we don't have the power to stop them.
This is... or better was about those that are not playing that part of the game, why they don't play it and about how WE might be enticed to play it.
In a way pvpers benefit from these threads as much as you do, it allows us to see what we can maybe do differently, I for one know that pve players coming into pvp can bring new build and play approaches with them forcing existing pvpers to adapt theirs to overcome them, this causes evolution and growth for pvp diversity which if you asked any of the pvpers I know is a good thing.
All you do is to derail this thread and make looking for Ideas or further discussion on those really hard.
I don't know about derailing, I've tried to stay on topic as best I can, I like to think of it as adding a new viewpoint to an existing discussion.
I know a lot of good reasons not to pvp, but I would like to hear yours.
PvP in this game is meaningless and the majority of the PvP community are smug, self-entitled people who think that refining the perfect build to kill another player 10 times out of 10 makes them superior to all non hardcore PvPers and thus their opinions are the only ones that are valid. You couldn't pay me enough refined dilithium to make it worth wasting my playing time associating with them.
not rich
don't have a great keyboard setup
don't have a super responsive GPU with decent visual settings
don't have a math genius aptitude for perfecting builds
and... most of all
don't like attitude -- there's enough of that randomly in elite PvE
If the 'balancing' (or lack of it) is there to make ganking possible, there will always be gankers, we've all been there. As Gohan has said, all you can do is ignore them and use the experience to improve your ship, aside from frowning upon it and making them feel unwelcome in public pvp channels we don't have the power to stop them.
Do you really think they are slighted by the lack of a welcoming attitude?
And please tell me how to ignore 2-3 Players constantly ganking you?
The only way to ignore them is to not play...
In a way pvpers benefit from these threads as much as you do, it allows us to see what we can maybe do differently, I for one know that pve players coming into pvp can bring new build and play approaches with them forcing existing pvpers to adapt theirs to overcome them, this causes evolution and growth for pvp diversity which if you asked any of the pvpers I know is a good thing.
I don't know about derailing, I've tried to stay on topic as best I can, I like to think of it as adding a new viewpoint to an existing discussion.
Nobody questioned the benefit to the other PvPers...
But your "new viewpoint" IS derailing the core of the discussion which is about US and not YOU...
How is knowing what you think about PvP beneficial to the Discussion?
How does me knowing what you think is wrong with the system make me want to play PvP?
I hope I don't come off as overly aggressive towards you but it is getting unnerving.
Simple. The engine for it sucks, the faction abilities and ships are not balanced but different and most people play star fleet anyways.
So frankly it's a waste of time and effort. Plus for PvP there are only a few builds that can work so it's not fluid and dynamic.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
To the PVP community, why don't you just go play a game more focused on PVP?
There's all sorts of straight arena games, league being the most common, also World of Tanks, more FPS than you can even count, War Thunder, Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are in the mix. When it comes to an mmorpg though, trying to balance pvp and pve is a difficult process and often makes both sides suffer horribly. Ruins these games, if you want real pvp.. arena games is where you should be, not in an mmo.
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I know a lot of good reasons not to pvp, but I would like to hear yours.
In space it is hard to defend against the hordes of players abusing g-well, faw, and sensor spam. Worse yet a full premade team of players who do that.
On ground, the pvp players simply have more skill points and traits invested in ground. Worse yet, a 5 man team of players who are ground spec and still feel the need to exploit, run broken sci officers, and cloak gank players with half their skill points invested even though such extreme measures are not called for.
A lone player who enters without a full team of seasoned pvp players is guaranteed a demoralizing and severe loss to a premade team. The chances of encountering these teams are far too high due to the limited number of pvp participants, but it is also the fault of these teams and fleets for running the pve majority out of the Q with their barbaric play style.
Could it be that pvp in this game is not fun and only exists for the sake of existing or feeling hard core? What would it take to get you interested in pvp? I would like to add that players from the pvp minority are not welcome on this thread. It is not for you. This thread is to find the opinions of the casual, pve majority.
Because I don't feel like it, because is not mandatory and because not every player wants to PVP, I get enough with the PVE part of the game.
Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
The resounding answer comes, "The PvP community is terribad!"
And comes in return the "solution" - "Grow a thicker skin!"
This is not a solution. This is a refusal to solve anything, instead merely insisting everyone else must act like you and enjoy what you enjoy. No one is insisting you have to PvE - the two communities can coexist and intermingle. But if you really want to get us into your group, the basic objections must be addressed.
To the PVP community, why don't you just go play a game more focused on PVP?
There's all sorts of straight arena games, league being the most common, also World of Tanks, more FPS than you can even count, War Thunder, Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are in the mix. When it comes to an mmorpg though, trying to balance pvp and pve is a difficult process and often makes both sides suffer horribly. Ruins these games, if you want real pvp.. arena games is where you should be, not in an mmo.
Do point me to a pvp focussed game that has a star trek focus that I can go fly my favourite starship and I'll go try it.
The Trolling and Flaming in this thread has now been brought to the attention of the Moderators.
Please cease and desist.
I would have thought this thread should have been a close on sight, I knew reading the OP that there was to be no love for pvpers here which in turn would lead to pvpers having to defend their play choices.
The resounding answer comes, "The PvP community is terribad!"
And comes in return the "solution" - "Grow a thicker skin!"
This is not a solution. This is a refusal to solve anything, instead merely insisting everyone else must act like you and enjoy what you enjoy. No one is insisting you have to PvE - the two communities can coexist and intermingle. But if you really want to get us into your group, the basic objections must be addressed.
Sorry, couldn't help but address this, its been said more times than I care to recall in this thread and others across the forums in threads dating back to the forum merge and likely beyond, no-one is insisting you have to PvP and we can't control what people do in pvp anymore than pve-ers can control what people do in their camp we do all we can which is to try to make such people feel unwelcome by whatever means at our disposal so I'm afraid "Grow a thinker skin" is all we can say to potential pvpers. The community as a whole is not terribad, I find most of the pvpers I've met to be friendly and very helpful, I'd go so far as to say fun!
On more than one occasion I've had a 1v1 match with someone and then spent an hour or more discussing builds, tactics and other stuff All we're asking is that you guys give it a proper go rather than listening to the stories and thinking "That's horrible I don't want to be a part of it!", if you find you like it great, welcome to the club, if not it's a shame, if you're unsure of your ship and tactics check out the pvp help threads in the pvp forum subsection, there are enough of them :P
well a few things come to mind. the first being that sto isn't PvP focused at all. It's not like WoT, MWO, warframe, and so on that you have to PvP to level up or get stuff. really the way PvP is setup now theres no point at all in doing it. no rare items or large amount of ec/dil payouts. If you think about it, why is PvP even in sto of you don't gain anything from it?
well a few things come to mind. the first being that sto isn't PvP focused at all. It's not like WoT, MWO, warframe, and so on that you have to PvP to level up or get stuff. really the way PvP is setup now theres no point at all in doing it. no rare items or large amount of ec/dil payouts. If you think about it, why is PvP even in sto of you don't gain anything from it?
It dates back to the days when STO was about fun and not grinding gear, the point is that it is fun, or at least, it is supposed to be fun and with groups formed in pvp channels it really is fun (for me at least)
I would have thought this thread should have been a close on sight
Not necessarily.
In between the nastiness, there's an actual discussion going on. If I close the thread, I end that discussion and the trolls on both sides of the argument win.
The rule violators will get themselves kicked out eventually if they don't mend their ways. But only if they get reported. I point you to the link in my sig for how to PM me, if you've never used the forum PM system.
When someone piles up enough warnings to demonstrate they don't care about the forum rules, they start getting recommended for infractions and actually getting infractions. That earns them a short vacation from the forums. More infractions, and they're out. And when they circumvent the ban to continue to spread their poison, they're in danger of getting their actual game account banned.
It's a process. Which only works well if people participate in it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
My take on pvp,
I will play group vs. group pvp on occasion, it's fun with the right people.
I will not do 1 on 1 pvp, many times in this game I've found the attitude of 1v1 pvpers to be poor and there actions via chat or mic to be verbally abusive. Until the loud bad apples of the pvp community ether have a change of heart, or proper protections against said abuse are put in place, this small minority will stain the entire community.
My take on pvp,
I will play group vs. group pvp on occasion, it's fun with the right people.
I will not do 1 on 1 pvp, many times in this game I've found the attitude of 1v1 pvpers to be poor and there actions via chat or mic to be verbally abusive. Until the loud bad apples of the pvp community ether have a change of heart, or proper protections against said abuse are put in place, this small minority will stain the entire community.
The problem is as it is with all the MMOs that have PVP, that with time the situation on PVP gets worse instead of getting better.
PVP community in every single game out there, starts pretty good, then P2W gets involved and those who can get better gear (no all, but the vast majority) become spoiled and destroy the fun for the rest.
New players join PVP and immediately they are ganked, mocked, ridiculized by just a fist full of idiots who give the PVP community a bad name, so the new players just opt for leaving.
Seek and ye shall find. Ask and ye shall receive. Rabboni
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" (Benjamin Franklin).
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
New players join PVP and immediately they are ganked, mocked, ridiculized by just a fist full of idiots who give the PVP community a bad name, so the new players just opt for leaving.
This is what I was saying, that a vary small portion of the community ruins it for the rest. 100% agree
...ts been said more times than I care to recall in this thread and others across the forums in threads dating back to the forum merge and likely beyond, no-one is insisting you have to PvP...
Apparently you're not insisting, Adam, and that's a good thing. However, if you think nobody's insisting that we have to stop being "dumbed down" and "grow a thicker skin" and go PvP anyway - well, I respectfully submit that you may not have read all the responses in this thread.
I've told my own story before, but it bears repeating.
I have actually tried PvP in STO in the past. I'm not good at it, but it can still be fun with the right players when it becomes a social event. I don't mind playful smack talking and zingers, as long as it doesn't get nasty.
What I do mind is futility.
I vividly recall my first ground arena match. I had not been playing very long and ended up in a PUG match where a higher level Tac was ambushing from stealth and my side could not or would not cooperate with each other.
I was trying to contribute, but it was beyond hopeless. It was a complete rout and I spawned in over and over, running what amounted to a circular course, only to get sliced and diced every time I turned around. There was no learning opportunity. There was only the smackdown.
Mismatched sides and bad teamwork on a consistent basis is what killed most of my interest in PvP. It doesn't help that STO PvP maps and scenarios are about as static as they come. There are no surprises, unless one of the players brings one. There are no real protections against spawn camping. Nowhere a newbie can go to hide and regroup.
One of the things that I liked about City of Heroes as an MMO is that the community was used to running most missions as a team, not that the UI facilitated it all that well. Teaming up then was a matter of spamming LFT in zone chat and waiting for an invite. It was routine.
Why? Well, one reason was that dang Frostfire mission. Much as I hated it, it sure taught the value of teamwork. You learned to operate tactically as a team or you got wiped. It was part of the normal mission progression, you pretty much had to do it, and it forced you to join a team.
STO needs a few missions like that which are suitable for low-level characters to participate in. Skippable if you really insist on not wanting to do it, but with really good rewards to sweeten the pot.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The thought occurs to me that what PvE might need as a good introduction to teamwork is a less fanciful and more difficult version of the Winter Invasion.
You heard me. Gingerbread Village. But without the cookies and snowmen.
A cooperative zone, where you can run around doing solo tasks to your heart's content while you're waiting. But the centerpiece would be a tough assault/rescue mission that you queue up for and it dumps you into a team with other players if you haven't joined a team already.
Like the Village, there would be lots of nooks and crannies to explore (or hide in). Unlike the village, there would be more than one way through. And unlike the village it would be built from the ground up to be both a team PvE map and a PvP map and there would be both PvE and Blue on Red PvP variations of the scenario. And it would be repeatable.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Comments
Unfortunately trolling and ego trips and armchair rage is the norm in online games, not just STO. Look at ESD zone chat for example.
I used to get annoyed by them, but afterall a while, what's the point of getting trolled when the way to avoid it is to ignore them, they soon get bored of you and move to another victim. Their main aim is to get a reaction from you such as rage quitting, rage talk and then they will have you for breakfast. That's nature of the beast whether in Kerrat or PVP.
We used to have an infamous PVPer when annoyed, who would cloak up and just trash talk for the rest of the match causing his team to be one man down.
Ultimately we can't control other's behaviour, only frown upon it or isolate them to ensure that kind of behaviour is not acceptable.
point is all these different experiance will indeed expose you and hopefully make your skin thicker and in some respects improve your ship too, which isn't a bad thing. PVP is also a choice and you can dam well fly whatever you want, I like to fly my Sci ships and healers as well in the queues.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
You've been wrong for years. The strength of one's conviction has no bearing on the veracity of their beliefs. Wrong is wrong. The devs have repeatedly asserted that they do not nerf for PvP. Their credibility aside, when has anything been done for PvP? If, they devs are willing to upset the playerbase by nerfing items to balance PvP, don't you think they would also respond to the many other requests that have been made in regard to PvP?
I know how you feel.
There are two main reasons I don't PvP in STO: First, I don't have my usual pvp crew with me here. Solo PvP is already painful enough on its own and even worse when you get paired against premades. And second, I have always played STO very relaxed and casually. Which isn't compatible with my pvp mindset.
Once in a while, I do get an itch to at least try it out. Thus I head to the PvP subforums to gather some information about builds and the metagame, because that kind of information is jsut necessary for me to enjoy PvP. And then I find out how vital my usual support group is, not just in playing together, but also to discuss and develop builds. I don't think that the pvpers in STO are worse than in other games, but the dismissive attitude and rampant trolling stinks just the same.
tl;dr I don't PvP in STO, because I don't want to (again) sift through the usually toxic community to find the people I actually enjoy playing with.
If I wanted to be warmed by flames, I would be by a fireplace... I would pvp casual.. and was told "it is seriously not possible" yet I did it.. and beat more formidable as a LEVEL 30 character taking out T5 Lifers with said "shineys" and never once used a mod or glitch, hack, or exploit in my path of winning. I left because the "community" said I had to be cheating.... instead of "how did you do that, will you train me?" I think I made my point clear by leaving so that I could do more productive things than watching the new skin on a fleet model rollout reproduction zstore clone drone ship be "shiney and new" and killed over and over over, and over again to learn you can... Guess what? kill it! LMAO
All these Ideas about segregation of Queues may be helpful...
BUT... I still don't have the time nor the patience to go searching for the two nuns when attending a Clothing-is-prohibited Playboy Party.
Anything that has been presented so far is good on the paper but are doomed to failure with PvP Communities because they WILL seize these new Option and they WILL derail them completely for their amusement.
People won't suddenly change... all this might add are new squishy targets and don't come over with that TRIBBLE "PvPers don't like easy pickings" those two Nuns might not like it but the general population seems to be really really enamoured with the Idea of Gank Squads, I still shudder when I think back to the olden days in Stranglethorn Vale...
Edit: Don't get me wrong, I find it commendable that some might want to help... but I must ask why are PvPers coming over here and trying to lecture us about PvP?
It's NOT about those that are already in...
This is... or better was about those that are not playing that part of the game, why they don't play it and about how WE might be enticed to play it.
All you do is to derail this thread and make looking for Ideas or further discussion on those really hard.
Erm, this right there.
People with this kind of narrow-minded attitude. Geez. There are a lot of players on the KDF side that are just as horrible. Just not as many, simply because there are fewer KDF players to begin with! Duh.
Btw I play both Fed and KDF side. And of course there is the Fed equivalent for this hostile chest-beating.
Apart from that it's the lack of documentation, the lack of balance, the lack of proper PvP game modes / matchmaking, and the sheer amount of bugs and loopholes, which keeps me from doing 'serious business' here in this game.
If the 'balancing' (or lack of it) is there to make ganking possible, there will always be gankers, we've all been there. As Gohan has said, all you can do is ignore them and use the experience to improve your ship, aside from frowning upon it and making them feel unwelcome in public pvp channels we don't have the power to stop them.
In a way pvpers benefit from these threads as much as you do, it allows us to see what we can maybe do differently, I for one know that pve players coming into pvp can bring new build and play approaches with them forcing existing pvpers to adapt theirs to overcome them, this causes evolution and growth for pvp diversity which if you asked any of the pvpers I know is a good thing.
I don't know about derailing, I've tried to stay on topic as best I can, I like to think of it as adding a new viewpoint to an existing discussion.
PvP in this game is meaningless and the majority of the PvP community are smug, self-entitled people who think that refining the perfect build to kill another player 10 times out of 10 makes them superior to all non hardcore PvPers and thus their opinions are the only ones that are valid. You couldn't pay me enough refined dilithium to make it worth wasting my playing time associating with them.
not rich
don't have a great keyboard setup
don't have a super responsive GPU with decent visual settings
don't have a math genius aptitude for perfecting builds
and... most of all
don't like attitude -- there's enough of that randomly in elite PvE
Do you really think they are slighted by the lack of a welcoming attitude?
And please tell me how to ignore 2-3 Players constantly ganking you?
The only way to ignore them is to not play...
Nobody questioned the benefit to the other PvPers...
But your "new viewpoint" IS derailing the core of the discussion which is about US and not YOU...
How is knowing what you think about PvP beneficial to the Discussion?
How does me knowing what you think is wrong with the system make me want to play PvP?
I hope I don't come off as overly aggressive towards you but it is getting unnerving.
Simple. The engine for it sucks, the faction abilities and ships are not balanced but different and most people play star fleet anyways.
So frankly it's a waste of time and effort. Plus for PvP there are only a few builds that can work so it's not fluid and dynamic.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
There's all sorts of straight arena games, league being the most common, also World of Tanks, more FPS than you can even count, War Thunder, Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are in the mix. When it comes to an mmorpg though, trying to balance pvp and pve is a difficult process and often makes both sides suffer horribly. Ruins these games, if you want real pvp.. arena games is where you should be, not in an mmo.
The Trolling and Flaming in this thread has now been brought to the attention of the Moderators.
Please cease and desist.
Also,
And this:
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Because I don't feel like it, because is not mandatory and because not every player wants to PVP, I get enough with the PVE part of the game.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
The resounding answer comes, "The PvP community is terribad!"
And comes in return the "solution" - "Grow a thicker skin!"
This is not a solution. This is a refusal to solve anything, instead merely insisting everyone else must act like you and enjoy what you enjoy. No one is insisting you have to PvE - the two communities can coexist and intermingle. But if you really want to get us into your group, the basic objections must be addressed.
Do point me to a pvp focussed game that has a star trek focus that I can go fly my favourite starship and I'll go try it.
I would have thought this thread should have been a close on sight, I knew reading the OP that there was to be no love for pvpers here which in turn would lead to pvpers having to defend their play choices.
Sorry, couldn't help but address this, its been said more times than I care to recall in this thread and others across the forums in threads dating back to the forum merge and likely beyond, no-one is insisting you have to PvP and we can't control what people do in pvp anymore than pve-ers can control what people do in their camp we do all we can which is to try to make such people feel unwelcome by whatever means at our disposal so I'm afraid "Grow a thinker skin" is all we can say to potential pvpers. The community as a whole is not terribad, I find most of the pvpers I've met to be friendly and very helpful, I'd go so far as to say fun!
On more than one occasion I've had a 1v1 match with someone and then spent an hour or more discussing builds, tactics and other stuff
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Perfect World Entertainment Community Rules and Policies . ~Bluegeek
MY FLEET:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=498091
It dates back to the days when STO was about fun and not grinding gear, the point is that it is fun, or at least, it is supposed to be fun and with groups formed in pvp channels it really is fun (for me at least)
Not necessarily.
In between the nastiness, there's an actual discussion going on. If I close the thread, I end that discussion and the trolls on both sides of the argument win.
The rule violators will get themselves kicked out eventually if they don't mend their ways. But only if they get reported. I point you to the link in my sig for how to PM me, if you've never used the forum PM system.
When someone piles up enough warnings to demonstrate they don't care about the forum rules, they start getting recommended for infractions and actually getting infractions. That earns them a short vacation from the forums. More infractions, and they're out. And when they circumvent the ban to continue to spread their poison, they're in danger of getting their actual game account banned.
It's a process. Which only works well if people participate in it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
/10char
1- Balance
2- E-peeners.
Don't need to rack your brain.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
I will play group vs. group pvp on occasion, it's fun with the right people.
I will not do 1 on 1 pvp, many times in this game I've found the attitude of 1v1 pvpers to be poor and there actions via chat or mic to be verbally abusive. Until the loud bad apples of the pvp community ether have a change of heart, or proper protections against said abuse are put in place, this small minority will stain the entire community.
The problem is as it is with all the MMOs that have PVP, that with time the situation on PVP gets worse instead of getting better.
PVP community in every single game out there, starts pretty good, then P2W gets involved and those who can get better gear (no all, but the vast majority) become spoiled and destroy the fun for the rest.
New players join PVP and immediately they are ganked, mocked, ridiculized by just a fist full of idiots who give the PVP community a bad name, so the new players just opt for leaving.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
This is what I was saying, that a vary small portion of the community ruins it for the rest. 100% agree
I have actually tried PvP in STO in the past. I'm not good at it, but it can still be fun with the right players when it becomes a social event. I don't mind playful smack talking and zingers, as long as it doesn't get nasty.
What I do mind is futility.
I vividly recall my first ground arena match. I had not been playing very long and ended up in a PUG match where a higher level Tac was ambushing from stealth and my side could not or would not cooperate with each other.
I was trying to contribute, but it was beyond hopeless. It was a complete rout and I spawned in over and over, running what amounted to a circular course, only to get sliced and diced every time I turned around. There was no learning opportunity. There was only the smackdown.
Mismatched sides and bad teamwork on a consistent basis is what killed most of my interest in PvP. It doesn't help that STO PvP maps and scenarios are about as static as they come. There are no surprises, unless one of the players brings one. There are no real protections against spawn camping. Nowhere a newbie can go to hide and regroup.
One of the things that I liked about City of Heroes as an MMO is that the community was used to running most missions as a team, not that the UI facilitated it all that well. Teaming up then was a matter of spamming LFT in zone chat and waiting for an invite. It was routine.
Why? Well, one reason was that dang Frostfire mission. Much as I hated it, it sure taught the value of teamwork. You learned to operate tactically as a team or you got wiped. It was part of the normal mission progression, you pretty much had to do it, and it forced you to join a team.
STO needs a few missions like that which are suitable for low-level characters to participate in. Skippable if you really insist on not wanting to do it, but with really good rewards to sweeten the pot.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
You heard me. Gingerbread Village. But without the cookies and snowmen.
A cooperative zone, where you can run around doing solo tasks to your heart's content while you're waiting. But the centerpiece would be a tough assault/rescue mission that you queue up for and it dumps you into a team with other players if you haven't joined a team already.
Like the Village, there would be lots of nooks and crannies to explore (or hide in). Unlike the village, there would be more than one way through. And unlike the village it would be built from the ground up to be both a team PvE map and a PvP map and there would be both PvE and Blue on Red PvP variations of the scenario. And it would be repeatable.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek