I do want to note, that despite the fact that there is a (probably) unintentional insulting and "better than you" tone, to some posts here, it is obvious to me that what we have is people who DO care a great deal about PvP, and DO want to find ways to make it more appealing to the masses.
Could I use to learn a thing or two about builds ? SURE
Is it the PvPers Fault the way that ques are set up ? No
Do I really think that the best of the PvPers want to drive me away ? No
For the most part, we are all on the same page here. People just need to understand that NO ONE likes being talked down to. Folks like Gohan and DDiS obviously have a deep passion for PvP. My bet is that they would like to share it, and that there are others like them. All of us just need to find ways past this communication barrier.
I am glad your one of the more sensible posters and willing to at least listen to another PVPer, I do not think myself as the best PVPer since slice bread, but someone willing to help and lend my experiance to those willing to learn and has the attitude to match it.
Unfortuantely people are sensitive here and I am not saying my posts have been top notch either. But we need to get rid of the PVE VS PVP hate here. PVP is not better than PVE and vice versa. We must direct out anger and frustrations at Cyptic/PWE for bringing the state of the game it is today.
However posts like Dylydady taint the PVP community and he certainly doesn't represent those who want to teach and help mroe people into PVP.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I have a question about tyler D channel. Is it a good place for a total noob to come and learn some of the basics and get "lessons" and matches that are actually fun and able to be learned from?
I'm talking for a player totally new to PvP.
It is a channel where people leave their fleet tags at the door and get balanced into teams for some PVP fun.
It is also a channel to ask questions when enough people are on, however as with any other channel you will also get jerks who TRIBBLE post and troll you, look at zone chat as a prime example. But generally we will help as best we can in between getting blown up ourselves
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
We have to re-introduce RESPECT back into the formula, Respect for the people who know what they are doing and respect for the people who want to learn, enough with this PVE peasant TRIBBLE, enough with the condescension from both sides. There are a lot good people that are PVPers and there are some jerks too and it's just the same with PVEers.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
I am glad your one of the more sensible posters and willing to at least listen to another PVPer, I do not think myself as the best PVPer since slice bread, but someone willing to help and lend my experiance to those willing to learn and has the attitude to match it.
Unfortuantely people are sensitive here and I am not saying my posts have been top notch either. But we need to get rid of the PVE VS PVP hate here. PVP is not better than PVE and vice versa. We must direct out anger and frustrations at Cyptic/PWE for bringing the state of the game it is today.
However posts like Dylydady taint the PVP community and he certainly doesn't represent those who want to teach and help mroe people into PVP.
your so full of it so your done insulting me and even bring my mother into it? everyone's opinion should be welcome and not told to leave when you don't like it
However the problem comes is not everyone will think the same and are of the same mental age. You see you will have some jerks who will grief just to get a cheap laugh, killing farmers in Kerrat or Spawn camping for example.
We can't police everyone as it's impossible to do, but there are a few of us with principles and morals and willing not to go down the path of the dark side.
If you ask for help we are also willing to teach you how. The following thread is useful for PVP builds and then you can customise them all you want according to your play style. Not one build should be same as everyone plays differently.
I have a question about tyler D channel. Is it a good place for a total noob to come and learn some of the basics and get "lessons" and matches that are actually fun and able to be learned from?
I'm talking for a player totally new to PvP.
Yes.
Like Gohan said, you would be balanced against players both on your team, and the other.
You wouldn't be put on the 'weak' team. If anything, high skill vets would be with you so you could be...and don't misunderstand this, be 'carried' somewhat. The other team would be of roughly equal skill as well. It's not a perfect system of course, but 95% of matches usually end up in a 15-14 score at the end.
To anyone reading this, I do also recommend looking into PvP Bootcamp. It really isn't a bad thing at all. No 'elitism' worries needed. No worrying about going into a match against some uber-premade and get stomped, then told 'you can only do this or that, and nothing else'.
It's nothing like that at all. Information is taught, skills are shown, etc. And it's classes, you aren't gonna be alone, the other people there being taught are in the exact same boat you are.
Even if you don't choose to use the things you learn in PvP, it can be a great way to improve your game play and skills in the entire game. Nobody has anything to lose, except for some time.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
your so full of it so your done insulting me and even bring my mother into it? everyone's opinion should be welcome and not told to leave when you don't like it
Unfortunately your opinion involves insulting the very people we as a PVP community try to help to bring them into PVP more.
See you on the battlefield as I won't shed a tear in your untimely death or in your case your timely and deserved death
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Like Gohan said, you would be balanced against players both on your team, and the other.
You wouldn't be put on the 'weak' team. If anything, high skill vets would be with you so you could be...and don't misunderstand this, be 'carried' somewhat. The other team would be of roughly equal skill as well. It's not a perfect system of course, but 95% of matches usually end up in a 15-14 score at the end.
To anyone reading this, I do also recommend looking into PvP Bootcamp. It really isn't a bad thing at all. No 'elitism' worries needed. No worrying about going into a match against some uber-premade and get stomped, then told 'you can only do this or that, and nothing else'.
It's nothing like that at all. Information is taught, skills are shown, etc. And it's classes, you aren't gonna be alone, the other people there being taught are in the exact same boat you are.
Even if you don't choose to use the things you learn in PvP, it can be a great way to improve your game play and skills in the entire game. Nobody has anything to lose, except for some time.
Don't forget Mimey's guides I remember reading them as well as DDI's when I first hit the queues and got stomped and raged quitted. They are very useful foundation
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Also Use Skill planner to plan your builds so you can visualise them and see if they will work, there are also other's people build on there as well which are quite useful:
you can also give the links to your friends or other people to critique as well
Don't give it, it takes time but time well spent when you win the match on your last kill/ assist with Subnuke or save your teamate with a timed heal preventing them a win
The 15-14 matches are the best ones to savour and they are common in Tyler durden matches
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Big thanks to Gohan and Mimey for what is really good information.
I'll be sure to expect the occasional condescending jerk off, but I will definately check out this Tyler Durden channel, next time I am logged onto the game, if nothing else just to say Hello.
Edit to Add :
I honestly believe a discussion like this can be really productive at bridging gaps that shouldn't really exist between portions of the player base. Because no matter how we play the game, at the end of the day we're all choosing to pretend to be starship captains and fly around and shoot stuff.
Big thanks to Gohan and Mimey for what is really good information.
I'll be sure to expect the occasional condescending jerk off, but I will definately check out this Tyler Durden channel, next time I am logged onto the game, if nothing else just to say Hello.
Edit to Add :
I honestly believe a discussion like this can be really productive at bridging gaps that shouldn't really exist between portions of the player base. Because no matter how we play the game, at the end of the day we're all choosing to pretend to be starship captains and fly around and shoot stuff.
we're all, on some level, fans of the same genre.
Indeed, I hope this thread continues without the TRIBBLE posting from jerk PVPers and I sincerely hope that Cryptic will listen, but hey been waiting since S1, I hope you understand my cynicism about the long awaited PVP content.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
We get it, you want relevance and for everyone to subscribe to your channels and go play with you. That's fine.
That's not exactly what the OP was discussing. It was asking why we PVEers are not interested, not "may I have a ton of advertising and sales pitches".
We get it, you want relevance and for everyone to subscribe to your channels and go play with you. That's fine.
That's not exactly what the OP was discussing. It was asking why we PVEers are not interested, not "may I have a ton of advertising and sales pitches".
I don't own Tylder Durden nor am I an op there. I am merely playing the other side and providing way to prepare you to PVP and that to see beyond another's bad experiance.
I am not saying it will be an easy road, neither was my grinding to Level 50 and popping my first cube for the first time. It's a learning curve and it's important that Both sides are equally important in the equation.
PVP is fun when you put the time and effort it as well. If you didn't put the effort in Hive Elite, you would likely be doing it for an hour for an example or stuck banging your head on Donatra because your other team were not specced enough and kept dying.
As I said in my previous post, flipping the topic to how does PVE prepare you to PVP? is also an interesting one, one that should be laid to blame at Cryptic's door step
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
It doesn't hurt to have positive input to show that not all PVPers are condescending jerks, I don't know what the OPs motivation was but I hope that it wasn't just for a PVP bashing session.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
We get it, you want relevance and for everyone to subscribe to your channels and go play with you. That's fine.
That's not exactly what the OP was discussing. It was asking why we PVEers are not interested, not "may I have a ton of advertising and sales pitches".
From the OP.
Yes, the OP wanted to hear the reasons we don't currently PvP. AND the question above begs the community to indeed answer a question, by brainstorming ways for it to be more appealing to the casual crowd.
There is no derailing attempt. There is simply people from both sides of the debate discussing things that exist, could exist, and finding common communication ground.
You seem to be very focused on the US vs Them idea.
Subscribe to their channels and blah blah blah
Their channels?
No, it's an in game channel that two people are being very open about it's content, and how it might be helpful here. They openly are saying, yes sometimes jerks show up in there ... sorry.
and you respond to people being helpful the way that you are?
Earlier in the thread, you talked about how someone didn't even realize that they were continuing to perpetuate the problem with their attitude.
Pot meet Kettle.
Look in a mirror.
Once again, thank you to the people beginning to bring this to a constructive conversation. I for one, hope it continues.
To me, PvP in general just isn't something I'm interested in. Not something that I came to STO for and not one of the things that is keeping me. Don't really care about what happens with it in STO but I can sympathize with those who do enjoy PvP and would like more attention to it. However, I do find it annoying when people advocate PvP as the end-all solution to improving STO.
But then again, that's me.
Member since November 2009... I think. (UFP) Ragnar
To me, PvP in general just isn't something I'm interested in. Not something that I came to STO for and not one of the things that is keeping me. Don't really care about what happens with it in STO but I can sympathize with those who do enjoy PvP and would like more attention to it. However, I do find it annoying when people advocate PvP as the end-all solution to improving STO.
But then again, that's me.
PVP is just another Facet of STO, I respect your opinion, PVP is not to everyone's liking nor should it be. Some people are happy to play STF's all day which is fine as it's what they enjoy. I myself enjoy killing Dino's as it seems to give me most Dilithium and Voth marks as well as fun.
But to those willing to stick to it a bit longer or wanting to get better at it, there are people out there willing to help.
Federation and KDF fleets are out there who are PVP orientated, I'm sure your own fleets have some PVP as well.
It's most fun when your losing 11-6 and you end up winning 15-11, the feeling is great. Ok the rewards are pants, just 19k EC and no dil from each match
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I hope your not put off by other's TRIBBLE posting and TRIBBLE chat in game, there is the ignore list for that. Don't respond to them nor reach to them for you will be farmed and trolled badly because they see you as easy prey.
If you get killed in kerrat , no sweat brush it off, it's Kerrat anything goes and most of all don't rage in Zone chat or they will make your life a misery for a long time.
Hope you enjoy PVP and give it time, it's like a good wine, it needs time to mature and needs lot of TLC, sure you will get into bad patches but hey you got to take the bad with the good times.
Be aware there always going to be bad apples where ever you go, don't think it's just in the PVP community, these are just people with ego trips or with a mental age of 4, taking cheap kills as their thrill and thinking their L33t for doing so. Try and see things from both sides, ultimately PVP is a choice not forced. If you enjoy your PVE, good for you, at the end of the day we are playing the same game, only differently.
See you on the battlefield everyone, I will certainly have a good death
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Plenty of nice info from Gohan, I see. I can vouch for him being a pretty friendly chap in-game, and if you ask him, you'll certainly get the help you want.
On another note, I was just wondering if a sudden influx of 'people who do not PvP because of something in this game' as opposed to 'people who do not like PvP at all' would help to dilute the general negative aspects of the game. Problems like unbalanced matches or opponents with lousy attitudes could, IMHO, be mitigated somewhat by a large enough community.
In a way, this is part of the reason why a good number of us would prefer to have people coming in. I mean, plenty of the people posting in this thread seem to have okay attitudes - so more of you all would certainly help things better. Still, though, it's fine if anyone doesn't like PvP just because it's PvP - I'd be an idiot to try and force anyone who thinks that way to participate.
Oh, and I'll just toss my hat into the arena when it comes to having someone you could ask if anyone ever wants any tips on making competitive-but-not-optimal builds for PvP - I pug almost exclusively.
I've been holding off due to the OP's "No pvpers allowed" attitude to things but I've read over Gohan and Mimey's posts and it's all good info. My experience of pvp and pve communities is that pvpers are more social and a lot of fun (do remember this is my experience, I don't speak for anyone but myself) while pve groups are more often either having a go at you for being elitist or being elitist,
I always try to help people if they ask for it (one need only browse the fed shipyards to see this), as someone who has completed most content many, many times I find pvp to be one of the few things left that interests me, that and testing stuff but at the same time, why have knowledge if not to help others with it?
I won't sugar coat it, pvp takes time to get the hang of and to find a build that can take what is going to be thrown at it and to run at the top end takes even more time and research but above all practice. As has been said previously, Ker'rat is an anything goes area, don't be surprised if someone spams you with a bakers dozen forms of cheese or a group of Romulans gang up on you, it happens, don't let it get you down either, change something in your build and try a different approach until you get it right. The queues I find to be a lot calmer and certainly more balanced, I don't run into half as many cheese builds in the pvp queues and you'll do even better at avoiding them if you join teams in OrganisedPVP or Tyler Durden.
I know lots of players use a very broad brush where pvpers are concerned, I find it to be that the majority are very nice, helpful guys and gals. Anyway, I'm sure everything I'm saying has already been covered, as has been said, pvp is optional, hopefully we'll see some of you in the pvp channels and queues and with any luck you'll have fun, if not, have fun and save the universe!
The PVP community wants their "cookie cutter" builds and they don't' want to change to adapt to the new stuff. When new stuff comes along to make PVP enjoyable for the whole community, they whine, cry nerf and it gets dumbed down.
Certain people give the PVP community too much credit and just take their word for it. As my sig says..."The PVP community is ruining STO!" and I stand by that.... I have been saying this for a year now.
PvP is awesome in this game, but alas, we only play it within the confines of our fleet. Outside of that there is too much drama and whining.
This is just ridiculous. If anything pvp players getting things nerfed will only save pve and the game as a whole. It is possible to solo elite stfs and get the optional. More needs to be nerfed.
My experience of pvp and pve communities is that pvpers are more social and a lot of fun (do remember this is my experience, I don't speak for anyone but myself) while pve groups are more often either having a go at you for being elitist or being elitist,
I appreciate that you are motivated to post from a sincere place of wanting to help.
Do you understand just how condescending the portion of your post I've quoted is?
Just tagging 'of course, just in my experience' on the end of something condescending doesnt make it any less condescending.
The thing about the PvPers who've been posting these last few pages is that I am postive they think they're being friendly and welcoming.
The subtext that they're offering seems invisible to them.
That subtext is 'come to PvP and be better'.
I think that if we ever have an adjustment to the game that attracts a lot of PvE players at the same time to PvP, a lot of people are in for a rude awakening.....including the current crop of PvP players.
In my view, and quite inevitably, there's something of a monoculture in the current PvP communitys approach.
However, not everyone who plays PvE in STO and doesn't currently play PvP is a noob.
There are some who can bring a wealth of strategy and tactics, new startling approaches to things, totally unexpected ideas.
These are the players that, once attracted to PvP, will make it interesting for all concerned.
Not every new idea will work, but a small fraction of them will.
However, if the current PvP community insist of trying to attract players to the PvP side by telling them to do exactly the same things they do, then those players will be turned off.
The end point of a PvP expansion is diversity, not conformity of either approach or result.
Do you understand just how condescending the portion of your post I've quoted is?
Just tagging 'of course, just in my experience' on the end of something condescending doesnt make it any less condescending.
(First I'd like to say I'm not a 'people person' and I'm the first to admit it but I try )
I understand how it can be taken in such a manner, this was not my intent, I was simply voicing my own experience as many others have throughout similar threads, ultimately isn't that all we can really do though?
As regards new approaches vs conformity in pvp, I think almost anyone who currently pvps would agree that is nothing new was ever added then pvp would become stale and boring, much like one's 1000th STF. Sure there are some who will oppose progress and evolution but that is the way of things in life, ultimately it's in the best interests of the game.
A lot of pvpers saying "come to pvp and be better" are saying it from the standpoint of after you adapt your build to the current pve difficulty level pve doesn't push you anymore, but the player tactics adaption you find in pvp likely will push your ship as far as anything in the game will, they don't mean it to be insulting or condescending, they're just saying what they have seen/experienced.
It doesn't interest me, I don't PVP in the other game I play either.
For me, when I log in, I'm on a mission to the next piece of gear, dilithium, ec farming etc... I like STF's and the new open zone gameplay. I also enjoy a chunk of the story missions as well.
I tried pvp once, and it was unfair for the opponent... I was winning terribly and he/she just decided to cloak and hide.... meanwhile 30mins went by and it was a total waste of time. Then I was annoyed at myself for sticking around for that long. I was invited, not the initiate.
(First I'd like to say I'm not a 'people person' and I'm the first to admit it but I try )
I understand how it can be taken in such a manner, this was not my intent, I was simply voicing my own experience as many others have throughout similar threads, ultimately isn't that all we can really do though?
Fair enough. I do hope i conveyed my understanding that it was not your intent to condescend.
As regards new approaches vs conformity in pvp, I think almost anyone who currently pvps would agree that is nothing new was ever added then pvp would become stale and boring, much like one's 1000th STF. Sure there are some who will oppose progress and evolution but that is the way of things in life, ultimately it's in the best interests of the game.
On this we are in complete agreement.
However, PvP usually changes at the moment due to the introduction of a new ship or power, or a tweaking of a doff or something.
An influx of new players would be a different type of innovation.
A lot of pvpers saying "come to pvp and be better" are saying it from the standpoint of after you adapt your build to the current pve difficulty level pve doesn't push you anymore, but the player tactics adaption you find in pvp likely will push your ship as far as anything in the game will, they don't mean it to be insulting or condescending, they're just saying what they have seen/experienced.
Let's take me as an example.
I have a Vulcan tactical officer, level 50.
She has a fleet tactical escort, all phaser fleet or reputation weaponry. Same for space set, all mk XII rep.
For consoles she has a lot of nice fleet stuff and a mixture of purple Mk X and XI phaser relays.
Skills, boffs and doffs are set reasonably well.
She breezes through elite STF content quite happily, of course.
Now, if I were the sort of person who currently plays PvP i would, at this point, be testing her out at Kerrat, tweaking the build and saving towards purple Mk XII phaser relays.
However, I'm not.
Instead I imagined her fleet admiral called her in and explained that, because diplomacy, she has to fly a D'kyr science vessel for a while.
Now, I do not for one second want to suggest that my Vulcan wouldnt get better playing more PvP, the opposite is surely true.
PvP would clearly refine the buld, test the concepts and, eventually, settle into something competitive.
Point is, why?
A significent portion of the PvP community will actively troll me.
Another portion, that overlaps a bit, will just gank me.
Others will want to take me to one side and earnestly explain to me how they got better.
Barely anyone will respect me the way I am.
The monoculture in PvP extends to the process, as much as the builds.
It's an inevitable consequence of min/maxing.
However, if cryptic put a moderate amount of effort in (not a seasons worth by any means), if the PvP community engage in a little productive navel gazing, and if the PvE community do the same.......then we might get to the place we all, i think, want to be.
A vibrant, exciting PvP element to the game that welcomes players of all levels and abilities and actively discourages the worse behaviours of some few players.
Fair enough. I do hope i conveyed my understanding that it was not your intent to condescend.
On this we are in complete agreement.
However, PvP usually changes at the moment due to the introduction of a new ship or power, or a tweaking of a doff or something.
An influx of new players would be a different type of innovation.
Let's take me as an example.
I have a Vulcan tactical officer, level 50.
She has a fleet tactical escort, all phaser fleet or reputation weaponry. Same for space set, all mk XII rep.
For consoles she has a lot of nice fleet stuff and a mixture of purple Mk X and XI phaser relays.
Skills, boffs and doffs are set reasonably well.
She breezes through elite STF content quite happily, of course.
Now, if I were the sort of person who currently plays PvP i would, at this point, be testing her out at Kerrat, tweaking the build and saving towards purple Mk XII phaser relays.
However, I'm not.
Instead I imagined her fleet admiral called her in and explained that, because diplomacy, she has to fly a D'kyr science vessel for a while.
Now, I do not for one second want to suggest that my Vulcan wouldnt get better playing more PvP, the opposite is surely true.
PvP would clearly refine the buld, test the concepts and, eventually, settle into something competitive.
Point is, why?
A significent portion of the PvP community will actively troll me.
Another portion, that overlaps a bit, will just gank me.
Others will want to take me to one side and earnestly explain to me how they got better.
Barely anyone will respect me the way I am.
The monoculture in PvP extends to the process, as much as the builds.
It's an inevitable consequence of min/maxing.
However, if cryptic put a moderate amount of effort in (not a seasons worth by any means), if the PvP community engage in a little productive navel gazing, and if the PvE community do the same.......then we might get to the place we all, i think, want to be.
A vibrant, exciting PvP element to the game that welcomes players of all levels and abilities and actively discourages the worse behaviours of some few players.
Unfortunately trolling and ego trips and armchair rage is the norm in online games, not just STO. Look at ESD zone chat for example.
I used to get annoyed by them, but afterall a while, what's the point of getting trolled when the way to avoid it is to ignore them, they soon get bored of you and move to another victim. Their main aim is to get a reaction from you such as rage quitting, rage talk and then they will have you for breakfast. That's nature of the beast whether in Kerrat or PVP.
We used to have an infamous PVPer when annoyed, who would cloak up and just trash talk for the rest of the match causing his team to be one man down.
Ultimately we can't control other's behaviour, only frown upon it or isolate them to ensure that kind of behaviour is not acceptable.
point is all these different experiance will indeed expose you and hopefully make your skin thicker and in some respects improve your ship too, which isn't a bad thing. PVP is also a choice and you can dam well fly whatever you want, I like to fly my Sci ships and healers as well in the queues.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
The PVP community wants their "cookie cutter" builds and they don't' want to change to adapt to the new stuff. When new stuff comes along to make PVP enjoyable for the whole community, they whine, cry nerf and it gets dumbed down.
Certain people give the PVP community too much credit and just take their word for it. As my sig says..."The PVP community is ruining STO!" and I stand by that.... I have been saying this for a year now.
You've been wrong for years. The strength of one's conviction has no bearing on the veracity of their beliefs. Wrong is wrong. The devs have repeatedly asserted that they do not nerf for PvP. Their credibility aside, when has anything been done for PvP? If, they devs are willing to upset the playerbase by nerfing items to balance PvP, don't you think they would also respond to the many other requests that have been made in regard to PvP?
Comments
I am glad your one of the more sensible posters and willing to at least listen to another PVPer, I do not think myself as the best PVPer since slice bread, but someone willing to help and lend my experiance to those willing to learn and has the attitude to match it.
Unfortuantely people are sensitive here and I am not saying my posts have been top notch either. But we need to get rid of the PVE VS PVP hate here. PVP is not better than PVE and vice versa. We must direct out anger and frustrations at Cyptic/PWE for bringing the state of the game it is today.
However posts like Dylydady taint the PVP community and he certainly doesn't represent those who want to teach and help mroe people into PVP.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
No, but he and people like him shout very loudly.
It is a channel where people leave their fleet tags at the door and get balanced into teams for some PVP fun.
It is also a channel to ask questions when enough people are on, however as with any other channel you will also get jerks who TRIBBLE post and troll you, look at zone chat as a prime example. But generally we will help as best we can in between getting blown up ourselves
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Then he can continue shouting for they are my primary target in kerrat
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
your so full of it so your done insulting me and even bring my mother into it? everyone's opinion should be welcome and not told to leave when you don't like it
Myself and others have tried setting this up
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=908811&highlight=code+conduct
However the problem comes is not everyone will think the same and are of the same mental age. You see you will have some jerks who will grief just to get a cheap laugh, killing farmers in Kerrat or Spawn camping for example.
We can't police everyone as it's impossible to do, but there are a few of us with principles and morals and willing not to go down the path of the dark side.
If you ask for help we are also willing to teach you how. The following thread is useful for PVP builds and then you can customise them all you want according to your play style. Not one build should be same as everyone plays differently.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=427091
the following article is excellent when repsecing for your skill points:
http://home.comcast.net/~amicus/Skill%20Point%20Effects.htm
Tyler durden has it's own TS channel to which I can't remember on the top of my head.
Anyone here can Pm in game @g0h4n4 for any PVP related questions
I play both Sci/Tac and Engineer careers with a primary focus on Tactical spike builds
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Yes.
Like Gohan said, you would be balanced against players both on your team, and the other.
You wouldn't be put on the 'weak' team. If anything, high skill vets would be with you so you could be...and don't misunderstand this, be 'carried' somewhat. The other team would be of roughly equal skill as well. It's not a perfect system of course, but 95% of matches usually end up in a 15-14 score at the end.
To anyone reading this, I do also recommend looking into PvP Bootcamp. It really isn't a bad thing at all. No 'elitism' worries needed. No worrying about going into a match against some uber-premade and get stomped, then told 'you can only do this or that, and nothing else'.
It's nothing like that at all. Information is taught, skills are shown, etc. And it's classes, you aren't gonna be alone, the other people there being taught are in the exact same boat you are.
Even if you don't choose to use the things you learn in PvP, it can be a great way to improve your game play and skills in the entire game. Nobody has anything to lose, except for some time.
Unfortunately your opinion involves insulting the very people we as a PVP community try to help to bring them into PVP more.
See you on the battlefield as I won't shed a tear in your untimely death or in your case your timely and deserved death
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Don't forget Mimey's guides
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skillplanner/
you can also give the links to your friends or other people to critique as well
Don't give it, it takes time but time well spent when you win the match on your last kill/ assist with Subnuke or save your teamate with a timed heal preventing them a win
The 15-14 matches are the best ones to savour and they are common in Tyler durden matches
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
I'll be sure to expect the occasional condescending jerk off, but I will definately check out this Tyler Durden channel, next time I am logged onto the game, if nothing else just to say Hello.
Edit to Add :
I honestly believe a discussion like this can be really productive at bridging gaps that shouldn't really exist between portions of the player base. Because no matter how we play the game, at the end of the day we're all choosing to pretend to be starship captains and fly around and shoot stuff.
we're all, on some level, fans of the same genre.
Indeed, I hope this thread continues without the TRIBBLE posting from jerk PVPers and I sincerely hope that Cryptic will listen, but hey been waiting since S1, I hope you understand my cynicism about the long awaited PVP content.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
We get it, you want relevance and for everyone to subscribe to your channels and go play with you. That's fine.
That's not exactly what the OP was discussing. It was asking why we PVEers are not interested, not "may I have a ton of advertising and sales pitches".
I don't own Tylder Durden nor am I an op there. I am merely playing the other side and providing way to prepare you to PVP and that to see beyond another's bad experiance.
I am not saying it will be an easy road, neither was my grinding to Level 50 and popping my first cube for the first time. It's a learning curve and it's important that Both sides are equally important in the equation.
PVP is fun when you put the time and effort it as well. If you didn't put the effort in Hive Elite, you would likely be doing it for an hour for an example or stuck banging your head on Donatra because your other team were not specced enough and kept dying.
As I said in my previous post, flipping the topic to how does PVE prepare you to PVP? is also an interesting one, one that should be laid to blame at Cryptic's door step
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
From the OP.
Yes, the OP wanted to hear the reasons we don't currently PvP. AND the question above begs the community to indeed answer a question, by brainstorming ways for it to be more appealing to the casual crowd.
There is no derailing attempt. There is simply people from both sides of the debate discussing things that exist, could exist, and finding common communication ground.
You seem to be very focused on the US vs Them idea.
Subscribe to their channels and blah blah blah
Their channels?
No, it's an in game channel that two people are being very open about it's content, and how it might be helpful here. They openly are saying, yes sometimes jerks show up in there ... sorry.
and you respond to people being helpful the way that you are?
Earlier in the thread, you talked about how someone didn't even realize that they were continuing to perpetuate the problem with their attitude.
Pot meet Kettle.
Look in a mirror.
Once again, thank you to the people beginning to bring this to a constructive conversation. I for one, hope it continues.
But then again, that's me.
(UFP) Ragnar
Good to have some space bar smashing
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
PVP is just another Facet of STO, I respect your opinion, PVP is not to everyone's liking nor should it be. Some people are happy to play STF's all day which is fine as it's what they enjoy. I myself enjoy killing Dino's as it seems to give me most Dilithium and Voth marks as well as fun.
But to those willing to stick to it a bit longer or wanting to get better at it, there are people out there willing to help.
Federation and KDF fleets are out there who are PVP orientated, I'm sure your own fleets have some PVP as well.
It's most fun when your losing 11-6 and you end up winning 15-11, the feeling is great. Ok the rewards are pants, just 19k EC and no dil from each match
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
http://hilbertguide.com/
I hope your not put off by other's TRIBBLE posting and TRIBBLE chat in game, there is the ignore list for that. Don't respond to them nor reach to them for you will be farmed and trolled badly because they see you as easy prey.
If you get killed in kerrat , no sweat brush it off, it's Kerrat anything goes and most of all don't rage in Zone chat or they will make your life a misery for a long time.
Hope you enjoy PVP and give it time, it's like a good wine, it needs time to mature and needs lot of TLC, sure you will get into bad patches but hey you got to take the bad with the good times.
Be aware there always going to be bad apples where ever you go, don't think it's just in the PVP community, these are just people with ego trips or with a mental age of 4, taking cheap kills as their thrill and thinking their L33t for doing so. Try and see things from both sides, ultimately PVP is a choice not forced. If you enjoy your PVE, good for you, at the end of the day we are playing the same game, only differently.
See you on the battlefield everyone, I will certainly have a good death
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
On another note, I was just wondering if a sudden influx of 'people who do not PvP because of something in this game' as opposed to 'people who do not like PvP at all' would help to dilute the general negative aspects of the game. Problems like unbalanced matches or opponents with lousy attitudes could, IMHO, be mitigated somewhat by a large enough community.
In a way, this is part of the reason why a good number of us would prefer to have people coming in. I mean, plenty of the people posting in this thread seem to have okay attitudes - so more of you all would certainly help things better. Still, though, it's fine if anyone doesn't like PvP just because it's PvP - I'd be an idiot to try and force anyone who thinks that way to participate.
Oh, and I'll just toss my hat into the arena when it comes to having someone you could ask if anyone ever wants any tips on making competitive-but-not-optimal builds for PvP - I pug almost exclusively.
I always try to help people if they ask for it (one need only browse the fed shipyards to see this), as someone who has completed most content many, many times I find pvp to be one of the few things left that interests me, that and testing stuff
I won't sugar coat it, pvp takes time to get the hang of and to find a build that can take what is going to be thrown at it and to run at the top end takes even more time and research but above all practice. As has been said previously, Ker'rat is an anything goes area, don't be surprised if someone spams you with a bakers dozen forms of cheese or a group of Romulans gang up on you, it happens, don't let it get you down either, change something in your build and try a different approach until you get it right. The queues I find to be a lot calmer and certainly more balanced, I don't run into half as many cheese builds in the pvp queues and you'll do even better at avoiding them if you join teams in OrganisedPVP or Tyler Durden.
I know lots of players use a very broad brush where pvpers are concerned, I find it to be that the majority are very nice, helpful guys and gals. Anyway, I'm sure everything I'm saying has already been covered, as has been said, pvp is optional, hopefully we'll see some of you in the pvp channels and queues and with any luck you'll have fun, if not, have fun and save the universe!
This is just ridiculous. If anything pvp players getting things nerfed will only save pve and the game as a whole. It is possible to solo elite stfs and get the optional. More needs to be nerfed.
I appreciate that you are motivated to post from a sincere place of wanting to help.
Do you understand just how condescending the portion of your post I've quoted is?
Just tagging 'of course, just in my experience' on the end of something condescending doesnt make it any less condescending.
The thing about the PvPers who've been posting these last few pages is that I am postive they think they're being friendly and welcoming.
The subtext that they're offering seems invisible to them.
That subtext is 'come to PvP and be better'.
I think that if we ever have an adjustment to the game that attracts a lot of PvE players at the same time to PvP, a lot of people are in for a rude awakening.....including the current crop of PvP players.
In my view, and quite inevitably, there's something of a monoculture in the current PvP communitys approach.
However, not everyone who plays PvE in STO and doesn't currently play PvP is a noob.
There are some who can bring a wealth of strategy and tactics, new startling approaches to things, totally unexpected ideas.
These are the players that, once attracted to PvP, will make it interesting for all concerned.
Not every new idea will work, but a small fraction of them will.
However, if the current PvP community insist of trying to attract players to the PvP side by telling them to do exactly the same things they do, then those players will be turned off.
The end point of a PvP expansion is diversity, not conformity of either approach or result.
(First I'd like to say I'm not a 'people person' and I'm the first to admit it but I try
I understand how it can be taken in such a manner, this was not my intent, I was simply voicing my own experience as many others have throughout similar threads, ultimately isn't that all we can really do though?
As regards new approaches vs conformity in pvp, I think almost anyone who currently pvps would agree that is nothing new was ever added then pvp would become stale and boring, much like one's 1000th STF. Sure there are some who will oppose progress and evolution but that is the way of things in life, ultimately it's in the best interests of the game.
A lot of pvpers saying "come to pvp and be better" are saying it from the standpoint of after you adapt your build to the current pve difficulty level pve doesn't push you anymore, but the player tactics adaption you find in pvp likely will push your ship as far as anything in the game will, they don't mean it to be insulting or condescending, they're just saying what they have seen/experienced.
For me, when I log in, I'm on a mission to the next piece of gear, dilithium, ec farming etc... I like STF's and the new open zone gameplay. I also enjoy a chunk of the story missions as well.
I tried pvp once, and it was unfair for the opponent... I was winning terribly and he/she just decided to cloak and hide.... meanwhile 30mins went by and it was a total waste of time. Then I was annoyed at myself for sticking around for that long. I was invited, not the initiate.
Fair enough. I do hope i conveyed my understanding that it was not your intent to condescend.
On this we are in complete agreement.
However, PvP usually changes at the moment due to the introduction of a new ship or power, or a tweaking of a doff or something.
An influx of new players would be a different type of innovation.
Let's take me as an example.
I have a Vulcan tactical officer, level 50.
She has a fleet tactical escort, all phaser fleet or reputation weaponry. Same for space set, all mk XII rep.
For consoles she has a lot of nice fleet stuff and a mixture of purple Mk X and XI phaser relays.
Skills, boffs and doffs are set reasonably well.
She breezes through elite STF content quite happily, of course.
Now, if I were the sort of person who currently plays PvP i would, at this point, be testing her out at Kerrat, tweaking the build and saving towards purple Mk XII phaser relays.
However, I'm not.
Instead I imagined her fleet admiral called her in and explained that, because diplomacy, she has to fly a D'kyr science vessel for a while.
Now, I do not for one second want to suggest that my Vulcan wouldnt get better playing more PvP, the opposite is surely true.
PvP would clearly refine the buld, test the concepts and, eventually, settle into something competitive.
Point is, why?
A significent portion of the PvP community will actively troll me.
Another portion, that overlaps a bit, will just gank me.
Others will want to take me to one side and earnestly explain to me how they got better.
Barely anyone will respect me the way I am.
The monoculture in PvP extends to the process, as much as the builds.
It's an inevitable consequence of min/maxing.
However, if cryptic put a moderate amount of effort in (not a seasons worth by any means), if the PvP community engage in a little productive navel gazing, and if the PvE community do the same.......then we might get to the place we all, i think, want to be.
A vibrant, exciting PvP element to the game that welcomes players of all levels and abilities and actively discourages the worse behaviours of some few players.
Unfortunately trolling and ego trips and armchair rage is the norm in online games, not just STO. Look at ESD zone chat for example.
I used to get annoyed by them, but afterall a while, what's the point of getting trolled when the way to avoid it is to ignore them, they soon get bored of you and move to another victim. Their main aim is to get a reaction from you such as rage quitting, rage talk and then they will have you for breakfast. That's nature of the beast whether in Kerrat or PVP.
We used to have an infamous PVPer when annoyed, who would cloak up and just trash talk for the rest of the match causing his team to be one man down.
Ultimately we can't control other's behaviour, only frown upon it or isolate them to ensure that kind of behaviour is not acceptable.
point is all these different experiance will indeed expose you and hopefully make your skin thicker and in some respects improve your ship too, which isn't a bad thing. PVP is also a choice and you can dam well fly whatever you want, I like to fly my Sci ships and healers as well in the queues.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
You've been wrong for years. The strength of one's conviction has no bearing on the veracity of their beliefs. Wrong is wrong. The devs have repeatedly asserted that they do not nerf for PvP. Their credibility aside, when has anything been done for PvP? If, they devs are willing to upset the playerbase by nerfing items to balance PvP, don't you think they would also respond to the many other requests that have been made in regard to PvP?
I know how you feel.