To the PVP community, why don't you just go play a game more focused on PVP?
There's all sorts of straight arena games, league being the most common, also World of Tanks, more FPS than you can even count, War Thunder, Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous are in the mix. When it comes to an mmorpg though, trying to balance pvp and pve is a difficult process and often makes both sides suffer horribly. Ruins these games, if you want real pvp.. arena games is where you should be, not in an mmo.
This game started out with a much larger PvP presence but like all the other content in this game that gets neglected it's hardly played anymore. You couldn't even think of being Klingon and not do PvP. PvP was the leveling mechanism for KDF when the game launched. I played a lot of PvP in the beginning and all the queues were busy even at lower levels but it also took you a couple months to get a toon to level 45 as the missions didn't reward as much skill points and required you to do DSEs, patrols, and maybe even some PvP to continue to mission chain at the right level.
As many have pointed out though the lack of new maps or ways to stop spawn camping or have better mix of teams required like sci, eng, and tac are some of the big issues. I used to run science and engineers mostly but I probably wouldn't do PvP as a PuG unless in a escort now. With some love I think PvP will add a nice facet to the game for those looking to challenge themselves with the stuff they acquire from PvE since PvE is hardly difficult.
A big fix for a lot of folks complaints about PvP is the same as it is for PvE queues... Griefers and AFKers. I have said many time on the AFK issues that if the game allowed the ignore function work like it should... anyone you would use the Ignore option on would not be placed on the same map as you for any event type mission. These same types of folks would all just end up on a map with each other overtime and they can give each other grief.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Lots of online games, if not all of them, have their share of trolls.
Multiplayer games seem to enable the occasional keyboard warrior, who uses the anonymity and distance afforded by the form to be far more unpleasant and confrontational than they'd get away with in real life.
This happens across pretty much all games.
A game gets a reputation for being a good multiplayer experience when such people are not allowed to become the dominant force.
However, this is rarely because the developers enable this.
Usually what happens is that communities within the game begin to set up walled gardens to play in, where they can monitor behaviour and kick if necessary.
This is doable, right now, in STO.
A group needs to design a competition.
Let's say, 2 v 2 initially
Make it invitation only and have two classes for the event, veterans and beginners.
How to do the invites?
Well, i imagine any PvP who's been around knows a few names. Invite the best of the best.
As for the beginners, sort through these forum threads and invite the loud PvE players.
I'd accept.
With little effort, sixteen names for each group could be arrived at. Thats eight pairs for each competition.
So, you have your rules, your players, now you need the publicity.
Netcast each match. Make them events.
Have a couple of PvP guys who aren't playing do commentary.
Interview players afterwards.
Put match analysis and comment of these august fora.
In short, showcase what PvP can be.
by having the two classes you get to show 'normal' players having good, competitive fun as well as the veterans for exhibition purposes.
Catch Branflakes attention, perhaps get him to use the facebook and twitter accounts to get more publicity.
Basically, let's model what PvP could and should be for everyone.....and not hide the light under a bushel.
While I'm not more than passingly acquainted with PvP, I do know extremely well how to set up online competitions. I did it as a speciality in an online gaming organisation for four years across a number of games.
So, if there's a group of PvP people out there with the clout, organisation and commitment to a new future for PvP, drop me a line.
Perhaps, instead of chatting so pleasantly, we could actually do something.
The thought occurs to me that what PvE might need as a good introduction to teamwork is a less fanciful and more difficult version of the Winter Invasion.
It is an idea that has merit, but... wasn't that the original intent behind the STF's, an introduction to teamwork?
It seems to me that the STO game has a fractured personality. It wants to have interdependent classes, but features stories designed to be played solo.
I haven't run through the new tutorial yet, but it would seem that, if Cryptic wanted to encourage team play, the tutorial would be the place to introduce the concept, its value, and its execution.
A good fix maybe a pvp que where you are matched up with an opponent based on your win to lose ratio, that way after a while you get consist matches with people on your level, in turn causing you to adapt and get better, thus ending up with better opponents.
So, I see we're 34 pages in here, but I wanted to post directly to the fellow who started this thread.
Why I don't PvP in STO is simple, but has nothing to do with STO's PvP community directly. No lies, I have not, and WILL NOT PvP in this game, but there are several reasons, even if they are simple.
1. I've PvP'd extensively in Champions Online, that other Cryptic game. Balance here and balance there seems to function on a similar axis, except over here it's all the new stuff that's OP whereas over there it's all the old stuff that is now only in Drifter Salvage (re: Lobi Crystal) random boxes.
2. I've played League of Legends. I'm by no means great at it, but I know how to get it done. It's been my experience that my team always ABANDONS me so the other team can get a kill on me and THEN they yell at me at how it's my fault. Maybe it wouldn't have gone great, but it could easily have been a trade off instead of a free kills situation.
3. I've PvP'd extensively in WoW, and am good at that. STO and CO do not have similar styles of balancing as WoW does, combined with the pay to win stuff, just isn't interesting to me.
4. The Klingon/Federation War seems more like a cold war with the occasional skirmish than a hot war to me. By the time the first mission series is wrapping up, it feels like the war is dying down. In game, PvP beyond that point feels kinda' forced.
5. It's been my experience that PvP is much the same from one game to the next. I don't have any reason to walk into the chipper so some wanks can stroke their epeens, so I don't.
And y'know, as a possible 6th reason here, I have a LOT to do with leveling reps, putting DOFFs to work, grinding marks, making credits, and then living REAL life. There's no time for something as pointless as PvP.
I respectfully submit that you may not have read all the responses in this thread.
Allow me to just as respectfully observe that your previous post came across as an indictment on the PvP community as a whole, rather than distinguishing between individual post and posters.
Are you suggesting that Adam "grow a thinker skin" and not be so sensitive to blanket statements made about PvP players? That would probably be good advice for players on both sides of the issue.
Of course, that does not excuse each of us from our responsibility to avoid making blanket statements about groups of players.
It seems to me that the STO game has a fractured personality. It wants to have interdependent classes, but features stories designed to be played solo.
No argument. It's very solo-friendly.
I haven't run through the new tutorial yet, but it would seem that, if Cryptic wanted to encourage team play, the tutorial would be the place to introduce the concept, its value, and its execution.
No, IMO. The basic tutorial is about teaching basic controls. A later tutorial could (and should) address teamplay.
A good fix maybe a pvp que where you are matched up with an opponent based on your win to lose ratio, that way after a while you get consist matches with people on your level, in turn causing you to adapt and get better, thus ending up with better opponents.
Some kind of ladder system is really necessary, I think.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
A good fix maybe a pvp que where you are matched up with an opponent based on your win to lose ratio, that way after a while you get consist matches with people on your level, in turn causing you to adapt and get better, thus ending up with better opponents.
PvP in this game is meaningless and the majority of the PvP community are smug, self-entitled people who think that refining the perfect build to kill another player 10 times out of 10 makes them superior to all non hardcore PvPers and thus their opinions are the only ones that are valid. You couldn't pay me enough refined dilithium to make it worth wasting my playing time associating with them.
Haha. Yes this is so true. And I am one of the 'elite' PVP players (Top 5 on Hilbert's board.) I know PVP is dying because of this certain type of elitist PVPer. They form premade teams. There are a handful of them. And they think the PVP queues are there for their enjoyment only. There is a huge battle raging in the PVP community about getting Cryptic to split the PVP queues to make it more accessable to casual STO players:
* Merge KDF and FED so that they can play on the same PVP teams.
* Split the queues into:
- - - PUG (Random people who queue solo) Queue
- - - Premade/Group Queue only
So FvK, KvK, FvF Cap and Hold and Arena queues would all vanish and turn into just this:
* PUG/Solo Queue Arena
* Premade/Group Queue Arena
* PUG/Solo Queue Cap & Hold
* Premade/Group Queue Cap & Hold
The elitist premades are raging hard against this idea because they realize they won't be able to steamroll unorganized people with their Team Speak + 3 chained SubNuc "wizardry" every night.
The idea that if casual people want to PVP, that they could join a PUG queue and not have to get ***** by a premade scares the TRIBBLE out of them. Personally I think it would be great for PVP if casuals could just queue up for a PUG queue knowing they will be just as randomized as the people they are fighting.
Agreed, but we simply dont have the tools to create a ladder with the currently available game engine.
We don't right now, yes. But I think Cryptic could build one if they wanted to without rewriting the whole darn game. They just need a workable scoring system that takes more than just kills and DPS into account.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
We don't right now, yes. But I think Cryptic could build one if they wanted to without rewriting the whole darn game. They just need a workable scoring system that takes more than just kills and DPS into account.
True, it's not a seasons worth of work, although it is a significent piece of work.
They moved towards something like it with the scoring system for the Crystalline event.
However, we haven't heard much about it since.
Thing is, its months away, even if they start work in earnest right now.
We don't right now, yes. But I think Cryptic could build one if they wanted to without rewriting the whole darn game. They just need a workable scoring system that takes more than just kills and DPS into account.
So nice to have a mod that actually cares about the game. +1 to you sir(or madam)!
...
Now as to getting PvE people to play PvP. I think in an ideal world it is a great thing. But with the massive - massive power creep, cheese, OP builds, meta game complexity, premades rofl-stomping queues and the rest ... it is probably not a good idea.
I would suggest that they introduce a vanilla PvP mode to ease people into PvP if they actually cared about growing PvP.
1. All gear auto - reduced to MK XI or XII white (no modifiers)
2. All active consoles turned off
3. No lock box or fleet ships allowed
4. All repos turned off
5. All doffs turned off
6. No premades allowed to queue
7. Chat if off (LOL okay this is just to avoid the usual "L2P nooblet" or "OMFG you suck" ... and other "colorful metaphors".
Essentially, I am advocating for a real arena style PvP. I am sure I missed stuff.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Are you suggesting that Adam "grow a thinker skin" and not be so sensitive to blanket statements made about PvP players?
You mistake my meaning, sir. The "thicker skin" comment was being directed at those of us who don't PvP, not in the sense of ignoring commentary on forums, but rather in the sense that we ought to just go let them steamroll us in PvP whether it's what we enjoy or not.
I am by no means insisting that anyone who only enjoys PvP has to buckle down and play through all the PvE stuff - if it's not your cuppa, well, have fun in the game the way you like to. The only BadWrongFun concept to which I personally subscribe is the one where your "fun" consists of forcing everyone else to have the same fun you do.
It's just that the OP asked a question, it was answered, and the immediate response from the PvP community, before the more reasonable members began to respond, came from the elitists who want to force us all into their queues whether we will or no, and whose reply to our response was that we needed to "grow a thicker skin" (I keep putting the quote marks in because it's a direct quote from an earlier post). I don't think, really, that I'm the one who's being unreasonable in the discussion...
* Merge KDF and FED so that they can play on the same PVP teams.
* Split the queues into:
- - - PUG (Random people who queue solo) Queue
- - - Premade/Group Queue only
So FvK, KvK, FvF Cap and Hold and Arena queues would all vanish and turn into just this:
* PUG/Solo Queue Arena
* Premade/Group Queue Arena
* PUG/Solo Queue Cap & Hold
* Premade/Group Queue Cap & Hold
The elitist premades are raging hard against this idea because they realize they won't be able to steamroll unorganized people with their Team Speak + 3 chained SubNuc "wizardry" every night.
More great ideas. This would work wonders with the slightest effort by the DEVs.
I would suggest that they introduce a vanilla PvP mode to ease people into PvP if they actually cared about growing PvP.
1. All gear auto - reduced to MK XI or XII white (no modifiers)
2. All active consoles turned off
3. No lock box or fleet ships allowed
4. All repos turned off
5. All doffs turned off
6. No premades allowed to queue
7. Chat if off (LOL okay this is just to avoid the usual "L2P nooblet" or "OMFG you suck" ... and other "colorful metaphors".
So, something analogous to CO's "Limited" and "Unlimited" PvP queues, where Freeform characters (who can generally tapdance all over most Archetype builds) are only allowed to queue for Unlimited, and anyone who thinks their AT can handle FFs can sign up for Unlimited if they want (and if they want to be taunted about it later, of course... ).
I don't think team PvP can succeed without some form of communication, unfortunately, because otherwise #7 sounds wonderful. Perhaps an understanding that in the "vanilla" queue, you're not allowed to trash-talk, with the option to report players that do? Then in the "big-boy-pants" queue (for lack of a better term), well, that's PvP as we know it today.
Haha. Yes this is so true. And I am one of the 'elite' PVP players (Top 5 on Hilbert's board.) I know PVP is dying because of this certain type of elitist PVPer. They form premade teams. There are a handful of them. And they think the PVP queues are there for their enjoyment only. There is a huge battle raging in the PVP community about getting Cryptic to split the PVP queues to make it more accessable to casual STO players:
* Merge KDF and FED so that they can play on the same PVP teams.
* Split the queues into:
- - - PUG (Random people who queue solo) Queue
- - - Premade/Group Queue only
So FvK, KvK, FvF Cap and Hold and Arena queues would all vanish and turn into just this:
* PUG/Solo Queue Arena
* Premade/Group Queue Arena
* PUG/Solo Queue Cap & Hold
* Premade/Group Queue Cap & Hold
The elitist premades are raging hard against this idea because they realize they won't be able to steamroll unorganized people with their Team Speak + 3 chained SubNuc "wizardry" every night.
The idea that if casual people want to PVP, that they could join a PUG queue and not have to get ***** by a premade scares the TRIBBLE out of them. Personally I think it would be great for PVP if casuals could just queue up for a PUG queue knowing they will be just as randomized as the people they are fighting.
How would it fix the PuGmades? random can only go so far if the pool is small.
You mistake my meaning, sir. The "thicker skin" comment was being directed at those of us who don't PvP, not in the sense of ignoring commentary on forums, but rather in the sense that we ought to just go let them steamroll us in PvP whether it's what we enjoy or not.
I understood the meaning and target of your post. And there are players on both sides of the issue who could benefit from a thicker skin. It would also benefit the STO community as a whole, if we would put a little more effort into distinguishing the behavior of individuals from the groups we see them representing. This being being a solution to many of our problems as a species outside of this game. A solution, which is unfortunately not part of our inherent nature.
I don't think, really, that I'm the one who's being unreasonable in the discussion...
I can't say. I haven't read the entire discussion. I was just addressing that small portion on which I commented.
Haha. Yes this is so true. And I am one of the 'elite' PVP players (Top 5 on Hilbert's board.) I know PVP is dying because of this certain type of elitist PVPer. They form premade teams. There are a handful of them. And they think the PVP queues are there for their enjoyment only. There is a huge battle raging in the PVP community about getting Cryptic to split the PVP queues to make it more accessable to casual STO players:
* Merge KDF and FED so that they can play on the same PVP teams.
* Split the queues into:
- - - PUG (Random people who queue solo) Queue
- - - Premade/Group Queue only
So FvK, KvK, FvF Cap and Hold and Arena queues would all vanish and turn into just this:
* PUG/Solo Queue Arena
* Premade/Group Queue Arena
* PUG/Solo Queue Cap & Hold
* Premade/Group Queue Cap & Hold
The elitist premades are raging hard against this idea because they realize they won't be able to steamroll unorganized people with their Team Speak + 3 chained SubNuc "wizardry" every night.
The idea that if casual people want to PVP, that they could join a PUG queue and not have to get ***** by a premade scares the TRIBBLE out of them. Personally I think it would be great for PVP if casuals could just queue up for a PUG queue knowing they will be just as randomized as the people they are fighting.
How would it fix the PuGmades? random can only go so far if the pool is small.
A PuGMade is a team that is picked up at random out of a channel if we're on the same page. Anyone who queues as a group is put into the group/premade queue, including this case. Private 3v3/4v4/5v5+ matches can also easily be arranged as they are now using OrganizedPVP channel or Tyler Durden channel.
The majority of people will queue alone, for the PUG/Solo Queue. These people will end up in 4v4s or 5v5s with a completely random team vs another completely random team. This will be the best option for 99% of STO who are casual players. This queue's size will grow by leaps and bounds as it is discovered.
The pvp community here has many a time done tournaments, and even organised the pvp boot camp to help new players. I know some players who want to organise tournies don't due to the difficulty of choosing rules, anything you ban will lead to complaints by some players but without Cryptic's support on the matter there isn't anything official they can do. But they do try.
On that note I really should make arrangements to get involved in the next one
I was always against the "merge the queues" for KDF and Fed (RP reason) ... but it does need to happen. Pops are so unbalanced and KDF queues are almost always empty.
Call it battle simulation or exercise or whatever and just make it happen.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The level system shouldn't be much more than an extension of tools the devs already have, we have ques, and in the dabo game you can look back at your last 5 results, expand that for pvp, the game can keep track of your last 100 pvp matches, calculate thwart win percentage (say groups of 1-10%, 11-20%, so on) and have an option to pvp with someone in the same percentage bracket. Ofcourse it's not a perfect system andon ooccasion someone maybe paired with another that's way more experienced than they are but it would even things out quite a bit.
I was always against the "merge the queues" for KDF and Fed (RP reason) ... but it does need to happen. Pops are so unbalanced and KDF queues are almost always empty.
Call it battle simulation or exercise or whatever and just make it happen.
I felt the same way, in being opposed to merging the queues.
However, the queues are something that happens outside of the story anyway. There's no consequence. There may as well be no faction distinctions.
With that said, I'd still like a few more Open PvEvP systems, with some degree of a persistent consequence.
Lots of online games, if not all of them, have their share of trolls.
Multiplayer games seem to enable the occasional keyboard warrior, who uses the anonymity and distance afforded by the form to be far more unpleasant and confrontational than they'd get away with in real life.
This happens across pretty much all games.
A game gets a reputation for being a good multiplayer experience when such people are not allowed to become the dominant force.
However, this is rarely because the developers enable this.
Usually what happens is that communities within the game begin to set up walled gardens to play in, where they can monitor behaviour and kick if necessary.
This is doable, right now, in STO.
A group needs to design a competition.
Let's say, 2 v 2 initially
Make it invitation only and have two classes for the event, veterans and beginners.
How to do the invites?
Well, i imagine any PvP who's been around knows a few names. Invite the best of the best.
As for the beginners, sort through these forum threads and invite the loud PvE players.
I'd accept.
With little effort, sixteen names for each group could be arrived at. Thats eight pairs for each competition.
So, you have your rules, your players, now you need the publicity.
Netcast each match. Make them events.
Have a couple of PvP guys who aren't playing do commentary.
Interview players afterwards.
Put match analysis and comment of these august fora.
In short, showcase what PvP can be.
by having the two classes you get to show 'normal' players having good, competitive fun as well as the veterans for exhibition purposes.
Catch Branflakes attention, perhaps get him to use the facebook and twitter accounts to get more publicity.
Basically, let's model what PvP could and should be for everyone.....and not hide the light under a bushel.
While I'm not more than passingly acquainted with PvP, I do know extremely well how to set up online competitions. I did it as a speciality in an online gaming organisation for four years across a number of games.
So, if there's a group of PvP people out there with the clout, organisation and commitment to a new future for PvP, drop me a line.
Perhaps, instead of chatting so pleasantly, we could actually do something.
This was actually done not so long ago, a Tylder Durden type tournament, where players from alot of fleets were balanced and randomly put into different teams. About 50+ people participated, it was awesome, even had people who hadn't played PVP before.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Primarily, because I'm not a big fan of competitive gameplay.
Secondly, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'll get left behind by people who run parsers and farm resources for the express purpose of squeezing .02% more damage from their build. I don't enjoy piecing together a soulless "optimal build", preferring instead to run what I enjoy running without being made to feel inadequate, intentionally or otherwise, by someone in a JHAS outfitted entirely in fleet gear running some ridiculous BOffs for traits alone.
I have no doubt that many PvPers are perfectly fine people, and long ago when I did venture in occasionally, I distinctly remember one or two offering to help with my build. It's not a matter of the community being bad at all. Competitive play simply runs counter to the fun I want to have with this game.
I distinctly remember one or two offering to help with my build.
I find that behavior smug and condescending, personally. If I want someone's advice, I'll ask for it. If I don't ask, everyone can just keep their "helpful" suggestions to themselves. :mad:
I was always against the "merge the queues" for KDF and Fed (RP reason) ... but it does need to happen. Pops are so unbalanced and KDF queues are almost always empty.
Call it battle simulation or exercise or whatever and just make it happen.
Comments
This game started out with a much larger PvP presence but like all the other content in this game that gets neglected it's hardly played anymore. You couldn't even think of being Klingon and not do PvP. PvP was the leveling mechanism for KDF when the game launched. I played a lot of PvP in the beginning and all the queues were busy even at lower levels but it also took you a couple months to get a toon to level 45 as the missions didn't reward as much skill points and required you to do DSEs, patrols, and maybe even some PvP to continue to mission chain at the right level.
As many have pointed out though the lack of new maps or ways to stop spawn camping or have better mix of teams required like sci, eng, and tac are some of the big issues. I used to run science and engineers mostly but I probably wouldn't do PvP as a PuG unless in a escort now. With some love I think PvP will add a nice facet to the game for those looking to challenge themselves with the stuff they acquire from PvE since PvE is hardly difficult.
A big fix for a lot of folks complaints about PvP is the same as it is for PvE queues... Griefers and AFKers. I have said many time on the AFK issues that if the game allowed the ignore function work like it should... anyone you would use the Ignore option on would not be placed on the same map as you for any event type mission. These same types of folks would all just end up on a map with each other overtime and they can give each other grief.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
Lots of online games, if not all of them, have their share of trolls.
Multiplayer games seem to enable the occasional keyboard warrior, who uses the anonymity and distance afforded by the form to be far more unpleasant and confrontational than they'd get away with in real life.
This happens across pretty much all games.
A game gets a reputation for being a good multiplayer experience when such people are not allowed to become the dominant force.
However, this is rarely because the developers enable this.
Usually what happens is that communities within the game begin to set up walled gardens to play in, where they can monitor behaviour and kick if necessary.
This is doable, right now, in STO.
A group needs to design a competition.
Let's say, 2 v 2 initially
Make it invitation only and have two classes for the event, veterans and beginners.
How to do the invites?
Well, i imagine any PvP who's been around knows a few names. Invite the best of the best.
As for the beginners, sort through these forum threads and invite the loud PvE players.
I'd accept.
With little effort, sixteen names for each group could be arrived at. Thats eight pairs for each competition.
So, you have your rules, your players, now you need the publicity.
Netcast each match. Make them events.
Have a couple of PvP guys who aren't playing do commentary.
Interview players afterwards.
Put match analysis and comment of these august fora.
In short, showcase what PvP can be.
by having the two classes you get to show 'normal' players having good, competitive fun as well as the veterans for exhibition purposes.
Catch Branflakes attention, perhaps get him to use the facebook and twitter accounts to get more publicity.
Basically, let's model what PvP could and should be for everyone.....and not hide the light under a bushel.
While I'm not more than passingly acquainted with PvP, I do know extremely well how to set up online competitions. I did it as a speciality in an online gaming organisation for four years across a number of games.
So, if there's a group of PvP people out there with the clout, organisation and commitment to a new future for PvP, drop me a line.
Perhaps, instead of chatting so pleasantly, we could actually do something.
It is an idea that has merit, but... wasn't that the original intent behind the STF's, an introduction to teamwork?
It seems to me that the STO game has a fractured personality. It wants to have interdependent classes, but features stories designed to be played solo.
I haven't run through the new tutorial yet, but it would seem that, if Cryptic wanted to encourage team play, the tutorial would be the place to introduce the concept, its value, and its execution.
Why I don't PvP in STO is simple, but has nothing to do with STO's PvP community directly. No lies, I have not, and WILL NOT PvP in this game, but there are several reasons, even if they are simple.
1. I've PvP'd extensively in Champions Online, that other Cryptic game. Balance here and balance there seems to function on a similar axis, except over here it's all the new stuff that's OP whereas over there it's all the old stuff that is now only in Drifter Salvage (re: Lobi Crystal) random boxes.
2. I've played League of Legends. I'm by no means great at it, but I know how to get it done. It's been my experience that my team always ABANDONS me so the other team can get a kill on me and THEN they yell at me at how it's my fault. Maybe it wouldn't have gone great, but it could easily have been a trade off instead of a free kills situation.
3. I've PvP'd extensively in WoW, and am good at that. STO and CO do not have similar styles of balancing as WoW does, combined with the pay to win stuff, just isn't interesting to me.
4. The Klingon/Federation War seems more like a cold war with the occasional skirmish than a hot war to me. By the time the first mission series is wrapping up, it feels like the war is dying down. In game, PvP beyond that point feels kinda' forced.
5. It's been my experience that PvP is much the same from one game to the next. I don't have any reason to walk into the chipper so some wanks can stroke their epeens, so I don't.
And y'know, as a possible 6th reason here, I have a LOT to do with leveling reps, putting DOFFs to work, grinding marks, making credits, and then living REAL life. There's no time for something as pointless as PvP.
Allow me to just as respectfully observe that your previous post came across as an indictment on the PvP community as a whole, rather than distinguishing between individual post and posters.
Are you suggesting that Adam "grow a thinker skin" and not be so sensitive to blanket statements made about PvP players? That would probably be good advice for players on both sides of the issue.
Of course, that does not excuse each of us from our responsibility to avoid making blanket statements about groups of players.
I doubt it. STF's were originally intended to challenge endgame players.
No argument. It's very solo-friendly.
No, IMO. The basic tutorial is about teaching basic controls. A later tutorial could (and should) address teamplay.
Some kind of ladder system is really necessary, I think.
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This is a great idea.
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Agreed, but we simply dont have the tools to create a ladder with the currently available game engine.
The only way it could be done, with the tools we have now, is on a small scale.
I can see a model that would work, but it would require a pretty strong central organisation.
I suggested in an earlier post the idea of creating a small, model event in order to showcase what might be.
That sort of thing would be a good first step towards creating such an organisation.
Because, we basically have three choices.
1. Give up.
2. Wait for cryptic to change things.
3. Figure out how we can move on now.
I'd like to pick number three.
Haha. Yes this is so true. And I am one of the 'elite' PVP players (Top 5 on Hilbert's board.) I know PVP is dying because of this certain type of elitist PVPer. They form premade teams. There are a handful of them. And they think the PVP queues are there for their enjoyment only. There is a huge battle raging in the PVP community about getting Cryptic to split the PVP queues to make it more accessable to casual STO players:
* Merge KDF and FED so that they can play on the same PVP teams.
* Split the queues into:
- - - PUG (Random people who queue solo) Queue
- - - Premade/Group Queue only
So FvK, KvK, FvF Cap and Hold and Arena queues would all vanish and turn into just this:
* PUG/Solo Queue Arena
* Premade/Group Queue Arena
* PUG/Solo Queue Cap & Hold
* Premade/Group Queue Cap & Hold
The elitist premades are raging hard against this idea because they realize they won't be able to steamroll unorganized people with their Team Speak + 3 chained SubNuc "wizardry" every night.
The idea that if casual people want to PVP, that they could join a PUG queue and not have to get ***** by a premade scares the TRIBBLE out of them. Personally I think it would be great for PVP if casuals could just queue up for a PUG queue knowing they will be just as randomized as the people they are fighting.
We don't right now, yes. But I think Cryptic could build one if they wanted to without rewriting the whole darn game. They just need a workable scoring system that takes more than just kills and DPS into account.
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True, it's not a seasons worth of work, although it is a significent piece of work.
They moved towards something like it with the scoring system for the Crystalline event.
However, we haven't heard much about it since.
Thing is, its months away, even if they start work in earnest right now.
I'm suggesting we do something right away.....
So nice to have a mod that actually cares about the game. +1 to you sir(or madam)!
...
Now as to getting PvE people to play PvP. I think in an ideal world it is a great thing. But with the massive - massive power creep, cheese, OP builds, meta game complexity, premades rofl-stomping queues and the rest ... it is probably not a good idea.
I would suggest that they introduce a vanilla PvP mode to ease people into PvP if they actually cared about growing PvP.
1. All gear auto - reduced to MK XI or XII white (no modifiers)
2. All active consoles turned off
3. No lock box or fleet ships allowed
4. All repos turned off
5. All doffs turned off
6. No premades allowed to queue
7. Chat if off (LOL okay this is just to avoid the usual "L2P nooblet" or "OMFG you suck" ... and other "colorful metaphors".
Essentially, I am advocating for a real arena style PvP. I am sure I missed stuff.
- Judge Aaron Satie
I am by no means insisting that anyone who only enjoys PvP has to buckle down and play through all the PvE stuff - if it's not your cuppa, well, have fun in the game the way you like to. The only BadWrongFun concept to which I personally subscribe is the one where your "fun" consists of forcing everyone else to have the same fun you do.
It's just that the OP asked a question, it was answered, and the immediate response from the PvP community, before the more reasonable members began to respond, came from the elitists who want to force us all into their queues whether we will or no, and whose reply to our response was that we needed to "grow a thicker skin" (I keep putting the quote marks in because it's a direct quote from an earlier post). I don't think, really, that I'm the one who's being unreasonable in the discussion...
More great ideas. This would work wonders with the slightest effort by the DEVs.
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I don't think team PvP can succeed without some form of communication, unfortunately, because otherwise #7 sounds wonderful. Perhaps an understanding that in the "vanilla" queue, you're not allowed to trash-talk, with the option to report players that do? Then in the "big-boy-pants" queue (for lack of a better term), well, that's PvP as we know it today.
How would it fix the PuGmades? random can only go so far if the pool is small.
R.I.P
I understood the meaning and target of your post. And there are players on both sides of the issue who could benefit from a thicker skin. It would also benefit the STO community as a whole, if we would put a little more effort into distinguishing the behavior of individuals from the groups we see them representing. This being being a solution to many of our problems as a species outside of this game. A solution, which is unfortunately not part of our inherent nature.
I can't say. I haven't read the entire discussion. I was just addressing that small portion on which I commented.
A PuGMade is a team that is picked up at random out of a channel if we're on the same page. Anyone who queues as a group is put into the group/premade queue, including this case. Private 3v3/4v4/5v5+ matches can also easily be arranged as they are now using OrganizedPVP channel or Tyler Durden channel.
The majority of people will queue alone, for the PUG/Solo Queue. These people will end up in 4v4s or 5v5s with a completely random team vs another completely random team. This will be the best option for 99% of STO who are casual players. This queue's size will grow by leaps and bounds as it is discovered.
The pvp community here has many a time done tournaments, and even organised the pvp boot camp to help new players. I know some players who want to organise tournies don't due to the difficulty of choosing rules, anything you ban will lead to complaints by some players but without Cryptic's support on the matter there isn't anything official they can do.
On that note I really should make arrangements to get involved in the next one
Call it battle simulation or exercise or whatever and just make it happen.
- Judge Aaron Satie
In part that's probably because I was using skills and ships tuned for PvE play. I could change that, but that's work with no guarantee of a reward.
Tl; dr: I suck, and that's not fun
I felt the same way, in being opposed to merging the queues.
However, the queues are something that happens outside of the story anyway. There's no consequence. There may as well be no faction distinctions.
With that said, I'd still like a few more Open PvEvP systems, with some degree of a persistent consequence.
This was actually done not so long ago, a Tylder Durden type tournament, where players from alot of fleets were balanced and randomly put into different teams. About 50+ people participated, it was awesome, even had people who hadn't played PVP before.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Primarily, because I'm not a big fan of competitive gameplay.
Secondly, because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'll get left behind by people who run parsers and farm resources for the express purpose of squeezing .02% more damage from their build. I don't enjoy piecing together a soulless "optimal build", preferring instead to run what I enjoy running without being made to feel inadequate, intentionally or otherwise, by someone in a JHAS outfitted entirely in fleet gear running some ridiculous BOffs for traits alone.
I have no doubt that many PvPers are perfectly fine people, and long ago when I did venture in occasionally, I distinctly remember one or two offering to help with my build. It's not a matter of the community being bad at all. Competitive play simply runs counter to the fun I want to have with this game.
I Support Disco | Disco is Love | Disco is Life
I find that behavior smug and condescending, personally. If I want someone's advice, I'll ask for it. If I don't ask, everyone can just keep their "helpful" suggestions to themselves. :mad:
NOOOOO!! I DON'T NEED YOUR HELP!!! I DID NOT ASK YOU TO PUT OUT THE FIRE!!
Absolutely.
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