That point is relying heavily on Lore speculation. This is a matter of game mechanics balance. Lore and game mechanics are like church and state, they should always be kept separate. Look at The Big MMO, in which they permitted players to choose non-lore supported class specs for the sake of game mechanics balance. When you let one influence the other, you just end up with a hot mess.
Also, BoPs are Warp-Core powered with B-cloak.
Yes but they have a quote on quote canon one of a kind cloak tested on one ship that also got destroyed mind you. So I wouldn't really define it as the standard battle cloak! :P
Klingon battle cruisers, raptors, and BoP all have some variety of innate cloak, more maneuverability, and dual cannons. The Vo'Quv is still the only free(no lock boxes, Zen, or lobi crystals) carrier that can launch frigates(that cloak no less). The federation may have the edge in number of ships, but, all of the C-store fed ships have some gimmicky console or borderline useless ability(dreadnought cruiser). Whereas on the klingon side we have the Scourge Siege Destroyer, the only non-subscriber/lockbox ship that can transform. I do agree that the KDF needs more free ships, but, when you complain about how many more ships the Fed's have than you I want you to remember that your ships are better, mainly because the klingons are supposed to be warmongers(PW doesn't have to pussyfoot around the peacekeeper image like it does starfleet, and create BS consoles [Tachyon Detection Field].)
Heavy Weapons, knocking down walls and horribly maiming people since man first asked "What if I made this really big?".[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Thinking it over, this is how simply I would address the overly obsolescent ships.
Avenger: Innate cloak, good as is otherwise.
Gal-X: Innate cloak, replace old console with Saucer Sep console possibly.
Defiant: Innate cloak, good as is otherwise.
Qin: Bumping turn-rate up to match the Defiant.
KDF BCs: They're fine as is, as they have already been rebalanced per the Devs.
Failing that, as had been suggested prior, change the Fed Cloaking device, into a device slot item.
Thinking it over, this is how simply I would address the overly obsolescent ships.
Avenger: Innate cloak, good as is otherwise.
Gal-X: Innate cloak, replace old console with Saucer Sep console possibly.
Defiant: Innate cloak, good as is otherwise.
Qin: Bumping turn-rate up to match the Defiant and fixing the pivot point issue it's been suffering from for years now.
KDF BCs: They're fine as is, as they have already been rebalanced per the Devs.
Failing that, as had been suggested prior, change the Fed Cloaking device, into a device slot item.
added a bit there; everything else i generally agree with, especially the bit about making the cloaking device an actual device
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Another area I want to cover. Changing how the cloaking console works opens an can of worms. Why does that console become built in and not many of the other consoles. Same if it becomes a device.
Another area I want to cover. Changing how the cloaking console works opens an can of worms. Why does that console become built in and not many of the other consoles. Same if it becomes a device.
i actually wouldn't mind if they made all universal consoles that grant an activatable power devices, because when you think about it, what normal console actually gives any active powers? none - they all grant passive boosts to one stat or another
same with devices; which ones grant any kind of passive bonus? none that i can think of; subspace field modulator, red matter capacitor, batteries, turrets, distress calls - all those have to be activated to get their effects
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Another area I want to cover. Changing how the cloaking console works opens an can of worms. Why does that console become built in and not many of the other consoles. Same if it becomes a device.
Easy, cloak is by default an innate ability. The cloak console is the exception, not the norm. No conflict there. The Device change would honestly be more odd-ball.
There are lots of silly things and the Fed ships getting a built in standard cloak is one of them. By Canon standards all cloaks should be battlecloaks - defiant was seen cloaking under fire in half a dozen episodes. This is also purely a PvP issue as you don't need a cloak for pve - it's pure fluff. I hardly ever use cloak on my rommie ships as it just wasting some extra clicking. They should never have given the Avenger the ability to use the cloaking console - that was a silly mistake.
All you need in pvp to avoid getting vaped by most people is a tac team or rsp anyways so it's not much use there. You either have battlecloak or nothing. How many kdf use the cloak in pvp matches? Maybe for the first shot then not again. It's just a waste.
Personally I don't care one way or the other If they made it a device as I indicated the standard cloak is mostly just a gimmick, however, this request has been going on now for years and has lead to no changes. It's beating the dead horse again - sadly cryptic dragged it out of the barn for another beating with the Avenger. Not once have I equipped the cloak on my avenger - and not more than a few times on my defiant.
There are lots of silly things and the Fed ships getting a built in standard cloak is one of them. By Canon standards all cloaks should be battlecloaks - defiant was seen cloaking under fire in half a dozen episodes. This is also purely a PvP issue as you don't need a cloak for pve - it's pure fluff. I hardly ever use cloak on my rommie ships as it just wasting some extra clicking. They should never have given the Avenger the ability to use the cloaking console - that was a silly mistake.
All you need in pvp to avoid getting vaped by most people is a tac team or rsp anyways so it's not much use there. You either have battlecloak or nothing. How many kdf use the cloak in pvp matches? Maybe for the first shot then not again. It's just a waste.
Personally I don't care one way or the other If they made it a device as I indicated the standard cloak is mostly just a gimmick, however, this request has been going on now for years and has lead to no changes. It's beating the dead horse again - sadly cryptic dragged it out of the barn for another beating with the Avenger. Not once have I equipped the cloak on my avenger - and not more than a few times on my defiant.
Damn it man, we will beat that horse till they bring us a new one. (sarcasm)
Damn it man, we will beat that horse till they bring us a new one. (sarcasm)
They (Cryptic) keep giving these 'dead horses' new life with each can of worms. KDF has it's herd of pummeled equine cadavers as well. With this one, it has basically been said that standard cloaking is tactically minute enough that it doesn't cost anything, if you are a Klink. Then in the same statement, it is indicated that for Starfleet, the same 'worthless' cloaking carries a price of a console slot and if it didn't, it would be a 'slippery slope'. In a game were powercreep has made console slots incredibly valuable, and the counterpart vessel has zero trade-offs and is outright superior, this is an concerning double-standard. Additionally there is the requirement of a monetary investment to buy a ship that can cloak for Starfleet characters; or in the Avenger's case, the cost of two ships for cloaking as that is what it takes.
It's an even more alarming critical double-standard when it leaves the realm of game mechanics, and becomes a monetary case of 'You Blue team guys have to pay twice as much for the same level of functionality as Red team for the exact same ship'
There are lots of silly things and the Fed ships getting a built in standard cloak is one of them. By Canon standards all cloaks should be battlecloaks - defiant was seen cloaking under fire in half a dozen episodes. This is also purely a PvP issue as you don't need a cloak for pve - it's pure fluff. I hardly ever use cloak on my rommie ships as it just wasting some extra clicking. They should never have given the Avenger the ability to use the cloaking console - that was a silly mistake.
All you need in pvp to avoid getting vaped by most people is a tac team or rsp anyways so it's not much use there. You either have battlecloak or nothing. How many kdf use the cloak in pvp matches? Maybe for the first shot then not again. It's just a waste.
Personally I don't care one way or the other If they made it a device as I indicated the standard cloak is mostly just a gimmick, however, this request has been going on now for years and has lead to no changes. It's beating the dead horse again - sadly cryptic dragged it out of the barn for another beating with the Avenger. Not once have I equipped the cloak on my avenger - and not more than a few times on my defiant.
Uh, have you ever fought a cannon/turret armed Scimitar with a Reman Tac captain? That 15% goes up to around 45%, which is actually pretty big when you do the math.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Bah, so much whining here... Avenger never should have a cloak.
There are some changes that need to be made.
Cloak needs to be integrated on Gal-X (it WAS, originally! Back when 9 consoles was thought to be too much for 1 ship lol -- remember this ship is SUPER old). The Deffy I can see arguments for it being both integrated and not. How do you transfer that to the fleet deffy? So I'd like to see NO cloak device for the Gal-X (integrated) but make a Z-store DEVICE (not CONSOLE) for the Deffy and Fleet Deffy only. Buy it, and you can move it to the fleet. Don't buy it (i.e. use fleet modules) and you don't get it for your fleet deffy.
Or as I mentioned in a different post, make the device turn an integrated cloak into a battlecloak. Just... NO consoles.
Avenger didn't need cloak console from the other ships. It's only got 9 consoles. It's not enough for a pretty pricey and top-end ship. We're not talking Tier4 here. We're talking pay2win. Shouldn't 1) lose a console and 2) lose ANOTHER for cloak.
Bah, so much whining here... Avenger never should have a cloak.
There are some changes that need to be made.
Cloak needs to be integrated on Gal-X (it WAS, originally! Back when 9 consoles was thought to be too much for 1 ship lol -- remember this ship is SUPER old). The Deffy I can see arguments for it being both integrated and not. How do you transfer that to the fleet deffy? So I'd like to see NO cloak device for the Gal-X (integrated) but make a Z-store DEVICE (not CONSOLE) for the Deffy and Fleet Deffy only. Buy it, and you can move it to the fleet. Don't buy it (i.e. use fleet modules) and you don't get it for your fleet deffy.
Or as I mentioned in a different post, make the device turn an integrated cloak into a battlecloak. Just... NO consoles.
Avenger didn't need cloak console from the other ships. It's only got 9 consoles. It's not enough for a pretty pricey and top-end ship. We're not talking Tier4 here. We're talking pay2win. Shouldn't 1) lose a console and 2) lose ANOTHER for cloak.
As for the Gal-X, that's a another beast entirely in terms of problems and shortcomings that should be addressed by the Devs.
As for the Avenger matter, regardless if it should, it does come with cloak ability, inferior and twice the cost in the end. Thanks Cryptic for saying blue purchases which kept the game alive aren't worth as much anymore. How Blizzard of you all. :P
Here's an even more simple fix, if the Avenger is 'fine as is' and the Devs see no issue, then as it is an inferior ship, they should knock the price down and retroactively refund all who bought it the price difference as it isn't worth the same as the Mogh. :rolleyes:
Bah, so much whining here... Avenger never should have a cloak.
There are some changes that need to be made.
Cloak needs to be integrated on Gal-X (it WAS, originally! Back when 9 consoles was thought to be too much for 1 ship lol -- remember this ship is SUPER old). The Deffy I can see arguments for it being both integrated and not. How do you transfer that to the fleet deffy? So I'd like to see NO cloak device for the Gal-X (integrated) but make a Z-store DEVICE (not CONSOLE) for the Deffy and Fleet Deffy only. Buy it, and you can move it to the fleet. Don't buy it (i.e. use fleet modules) and you don't get it for your fleet deffy.
Or as I mentioned in a different post, make the device turn an integrated cloak into a battlecloak. Just... NO consoles.
Avenger didn't need cloak console from the other ships. It's only got 9 consoles. It's not enough for a pretty pricey and top-end ship. We're not talking Tier4 here. We're talking pay2win. Shouldn't 1) lose a console and 2) lose ANOTHER for cloak.
the galaxy x never have 9 console slot right from the start, it was 8.
he was given 9 in season 5: call to arms when his cloack was transform into a console.
i bielieve it was the only tier 5 ship to have only 8 console slot.
it was also the only tactical ship to have only 2 tact console.
it was also the only cruiser to have 6base turn rate ( with the gal refit of course ).
a ship born to break record as it seem;)
also to clarify, tier 5 ship got 9 console slot, and fleet version got 10.
the avenger got "only" 9 console slot in cstore version, but 10 in fleet version.
over than that i completely agree that the galaxy x got his console be made integrated again. or make it a part of a set bonus that compensate for the lost of a console slot.
* -5 Current Shield Power per sec
* +3 Flight Speed
* +50% Defense
* After Decloaking, +25% Damage Bonus for a brief duration
* After 3 sec, +11.8 Flight Turn Rate
* After 3 sec, +5,105 Stealth (at Auxiliary Power 50)
Thats not even factoring Scimitar unique cloak capabilities and Reman racial trait bonus.
Cloak can only be used once or rather, moment they decloak they have to leave Red Alert status to recloak, meaning disengage from combat.
Dont even compare a Console Cloak with a Scimitar Cloak, you should not even compare a Battlecloak with a Romulan Battlecloak.
It doesn't have to be a Scimitar, ANY cloak because OP with you have a Reman boff, doesn't have to be the captain even. Reman Captain can actually stack with a specific Reman boff to make it more punishing.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
You would think Feds would be grateful to use technology they aren't even supposed to have, instead all we get is a 31 page troll thread full of complaints.:rolleyes:
Best to not give cloak to anymore Fed ships then if this is the reaction we get.
You would think Feds would be grateful to use technology they aren't even supposed to have, instead all we get is a 31 page troll thread full of complaints.:rolleyes:
Best to not give cloak to anymore Fed ships then if this is the reaction we get.
The trolling has been primarily KDF fanboys trying to get the thread locked. :rolleyes: A good example.
If it was a free 'gift' sure. But these are purchased ships, which suddenly being confronted to as being of less value than they should be, because we pay substantially more for what KDF have access to that is so freely considered no cost in terms of balance. Two of which canonically have been shown to cloak on screen, and the third is a new ship, fresh out of the yard and designed likely with assistance from the Romulan Republic, thus cloaking there. Not the whole fleet.
Though, thinking about it, Terran Empire ships cloak in canon. As we have the console, technically in theory we should be able to mount it on any Mirror Universe version of the Starfleet ships we may have. That would certainly expand possibilities and give it new lease on life.
I'd say this game lost all connection to the tv shows when Starfleet and the kdf went to using cardassian, ferengi, jem hadar, tholian, iconian, and voth ships.
Spoils of war.
I took out those ships, they didn't explode, they're mine now.
My crew and my fleet rebuilt them.
Just a little RP can really help explain some of the oddities in this game even if you're not a full on RP'er.
Let me try to explain this to you if it's at all possible for you to comprehend it:
The ability to the Avenger to use a cloak is not a God given right to the ship, it doesn't even come with a cloaking console. It wasn't developed by Romulans, Iconians, Q, the Terran Empire or Master Yoda. It already comes with a benefit - it gives the Fed. players the chance to use a ship that comes from a branch exclusive to the KDF.
The ability to mount the console is a bouns and a nod to those who already spent money previously on buying the Defiant and the Galaxy-X.
Another example of something like this will be:
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier has the possibilty to use JHAS frigate pets. But it doesn't come with those on purchase and the ability to use them is a bouns and a nod to those customers who spent a lot of money on the JHAS.
Yet people constanly whine on both topics. This has to be the whiniest game forum I have ever seen.
While I still stand behind my "More Counters, Less Copying" idea I see no one else willing to do so.
I was going to drop out of this thread (and start drinking) but I feel like if I do I'm giving up my idea for this great game.
The KDF have an awful Science Ship line and Starfleet has awful cloaking ship line. Imperfect Imbalance there. The Klingons are not well known scientists and Starfleet does not have a great history with cloaking tech.
Should Starfleet have cloaks on par with the KDF? No but like everyone said. Cloaks are changing the face of battle (I disagree with this but what do I know). So how about this? The 3 Starfleet cloakable ships get a build in Mask Energy Signature 4/Federation Cloak. It's a cloak but does not match the power of Romulan or KDF styled cloaks. Hopefully Starfleet gets a cloak and they avoid becoming even more like the Terran Empre.
I want to say again. More Counters and Less Copying but I want to ask. What do you think?
Edited: I freaking called it. Why do Starfleet still try to say they are the heroes? With Section 31 ties, the use of underhand tactics, and all the Terran stuff.
The trolling has been primarily KDF fanboys trying to get the thread locked. :rolleyes: A good example.
If it was a free 'gift' sure. But these are purchased ships, which suddenly being confronted to as being of less value than they should be, because we pay substantially more for what KDF have access to that is so freely considered no cost in terms of balance. Two of which canonically have been shown to cloak on screen, and the third is a new ship, fresh out of the yard and designed likely with assistance from the Romulan Republic, thus cloaking there. Not the whole fleet.
Though, thinking about it, Terran Empire ships cloak in canon. As we have the console, technically in theory we should be able to mount it on any Mirror Universe version of the Starfleet ships we may have. That would certainly expand possibilities and give it new lease on life.
You also pay for the Caitian Atrox which has similar stats to the free Voquv save for slightly less hull, slightly more shields, less crew and worse boff layout and worse pets, but will cryptic change that either? no, because Fed isn't a real carrier faction, so you are paying for the privilege of something that your faction normally wouldn't have access to, and it is a slightly inferior version as a result. Same goes with cloak. This is to ensure there are reasons to try all factions. You not wanting to try the KDF and wanting integrated cloak on your Fed is reason why we KDF can't accept this, this would be a disaster for our population. Cryptic can't accept it either as they have invested a lot in making a multi faction game and the other factions dying out would cost them money.
Also Terran Empire ships don't cloak in canon because the only episodes they appeared in on TOS and Enterprise they never cloaked. By the time the Mirror Universe appeared in DS9 the Empire had already collapsed. The MU never appeared on screen again, and thats the only thing thats real canon.
Also Terran Empire ships don't cloak in canon because the only episodes they appeared in on TOS and Enterprise they never cloaked. By the time the Mirror Universe appeared in DS9 the Empire had already collapsed. The MU never appeared on screen again, and thats the only thing thats real canon.
granted, it was a suliban cloaking device they were using, but chances are good that the terran empire was in the process of reverse-engineering the design to build their own model
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Roddenberry died in 1991, the Defiant started cloaking in 1995, and it doesn't matter if the Romulans put their most advanced cloaking device or least on the Defiant, Battle Cloaks are an arbitrary mechanic of Cryptic's design and have no bearing on the fiction itself.
Anything else?
And I stress the "arbitrary mechanic" part of that statement.
Two words: "Enterprise Incident." You all need to watch more Star Trek.
I've decided to spare you the drama of looking up the episode. The TOS Enterprise stole a Romulan cloaking device, installed it, used it, and took it back to Starfleet. All this talk of Gene didn't want the Federation to use cloak is moot. The episode was by D.C. Fontana and not some secondary writer. The only reason the Federation didn't use the technology is probably due to the Treaty of Algeron, and there are indications that the Federation uses the technology in the future.
Project Frontier is right that battle cloak is an arbitrary mechanic. It is only really relevant to pvp. In Pve there is rarely a need to cloak other than for alpha strikes. I would like to see it on the raptors, due to their lower survivability. But cruisers don't really need battlecloak. Do they?
Let me try to explain this to you if it's at all possible for you to comprehend it:
The ability to the Avenger to use a cloak is not a God given right to the ship, it doesn't even come with a cloaking console. It wasn't developed by Romulans, Iconians, Q, the Terran Empire or Master Yoda. It already comes with a benefit - it gives the Fed. players the chance to use a ship that comes from a branch exclusive to the KDF.
The ability to mount the console is a bouns and a nod to those who already spent money previously on buying the Defiant and the Galaxy-X.
Another example of something like this will be:
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier has the possibilty to use JHAS frigate pets. But it doesn't come with those on purchase and the ability to use them is a bouns and a nod to those customers who spent a lot of money on the JHAS.
Yet people constanly whine on both topics. This has to be the whiniest game forum I have ever seen.
Let me put it to you this way, then.
Ship A is identical to Ship B in every meaningful way. Ship B, however, has an additional CHAIR on the bridge. This chair is situationally useful, but mostly is not that useful, but this chair is pretty comfortable. Ship A can use this chair, too, but it must give up 10% of it's functionality to gain the chair. Ship A is advertised as being able to use the chair, as is ship B, but ship B has 100% functionality plus the chair, while ship A must decide between 100% functionality without the chair, or 90% with the chair.
At the end of the day, it's just a stinking chair. But you know what? If Ship B wasn't identical to Ship A in every way except for that frigging chair, then nobody would be upset. This whole problem is Cryptic's fault for releasing a copy of a ship.
The entire reason why I am butthurt is that my $25 buys me less of a ship than another man's $25. I can run an identical build the klingon version, but he can do something I can't.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Comments
Yes, the one with phase cloak, that has frigates for hanger pets.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Phase_Shift_Generator
Edit: Huh, look at that, cannons still work while phase cloaked...and this is actually BETTER than the Romulan version
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Molecular_Phase_Inverter
Curious that the Federation, who INVENTED the Phase Cloak are the only ones who don't have it lol
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Yes but they have a quote on quote canon one of a kind cloak tested on one ship that also got destroyed mind you. So I wouldn't really define it as the standard battle cloak! :P
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
If you want battlecloak on the Federation side then they gave us allied Warbirds for that.
Avenger: Innate cloak, good as is otherwise.
Gal-X: Innate cloak, replace old console with Saucer Sep console possibly.
Defiant: Innate cloak, good as is otherwise.
Qin: Bumping turn-rate up to match the Defiant.
KDF BCs: They're fine as is, as they have already been rebalanced per the Devs.
Failing that, as had been suggested prior, change the Fed Cloaking device, into a device slot item.
added a bit there; everything else i generally agree with, especially the bit about making the cloaking device an actual device
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
same with devices; which ones grant any kind of passive bonus? none that i can think of; subspace field modulator, red matter capacitor, batteries, turrets, distress calls - all those have to be activated to get their effects
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Easy, cloak is by default an innate ability. The cloak console is the exception, not the norm. No conflict there. The Device change would honestly be more odd-ball.
All you need in pvp to avoid getting vaped by most people is a tac team or rsp anyways so it's not much use there. You either have battlecloak or nothing. How many kdf use the cloak in pvp matches? Maybe for the first shot then not again. It's just a waste.
Personally I don't care one way or the other If they made it a device as I indicated the standard cloak is mostly just a gimmick, however, this request has been going on now for years and has lead to no changes. It's beating the dead horse again - sadly cryptic dragged it out of the barn for another beating with the Avenger. Not once have I equipped the cloak on my avenger - and not more than a few times on my defiant.
Damn it man, we will beat that horse till they bring us a new one. (sarcasm)
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Fixed that for you, hope you don't mind. :P
They (Cryptic) keep giving these 'dead horses' new life with each can of worms. KDF has it's herd of pummeled equine cadavers as well. With this one, it has basically been said that standard cloaking is tactically minute enough that it doesn't cost anything, if you are a Klink. Then in the same statement, it is indicated that for Starfleet, the same 'worthless' cloaking carries a price of a console slot and if it didn't, it would be a 'slippery slope'. In a game were powercreep has made console slots incredibly valuable, and the counterpart vessel has zero trade-offs and is outright superior, this is an concerning double-standard. Additionally there is the requirement of a monetary investment to buy a ship that can cloak for Starfleet characters; or in the Avenger's case, the cost of two ships for cloaking as that is what it takes.
It's an even more alarming critical double-standard when it leaves the realm of game mechanics, and becomes a monetary case of 'You Blue team guys have to pay twice as much for the same level of functionality as Red team for the exact same ship'
Uh, have you ever fought a cannon/turret armed Scimitar with a Reman Tac captain? That 15% goes up to around 45%, which is actually pretty big when you do the math.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
There are some changes that need to be made.
Cloak needs to be integrated on Gal-X (it WAS, originally! Back when 9 consoles was thought to be too much for 1 ship lol -- remember this ship is SUPER old). The Deffy I can see arguments for it being both integrated and not. How do you transfer that to the fleet deffy? So I'd like to see NO cloak device for the Gal-X (integrated) but make a Z-store DEVICE (not CONSOLE) for the Deffy and Fleet Deffy only. Buy it, and you can move it to the fleet. Don't buy it (i.e. use fleet modules) and you don't get it for your fleet deffy.
Or as I mentioned in a different post, make the device turn an integrated cloak into a battlecloak. Just... NO consoles.
Avenger didn't need cloak console from the other ships. It's only got 9 consoles. It's not enough for a pretty pricey and top-end ship. We're not talking Tier4 here. We're talking pay2win. Shouldn't 1) lose a console and 2) lose ANOTHER for cloak.
As for the Gal-X, that's a another beast entirely in terms of problems and shortcomings that should be addressed by the Devs.
As for the Avenger matter, regardless if it should, it does come with cloak ability, inferior and twice the cost in the end. Thanks Cryptic for saying blue purchases which kept the game alive aren't worth as much anymore. How Blizzard of you all. :P
Here's an even more simple fix, if the Avenger is 'fine as is' and the Devs see no issue, then as it is an inferior ship, they should knock the price down and retroactively refund all who bought it the price difference as it isn't worth the same as the Mogh. :rolleyes:
the galaxy x never have 9 console slot right from the start, it was 8.
he was given 9 in season 5: call to arms when his cloack was transform into a console.
i bielieve it was the only tier 5 ship to have only 8 console slot.
it was also the only tactical ship to have only 2 tact console.
it was also the only cruiser to have 6base turn rate ( with the gal refit of course ).
a ship born to break record as it seem;)
also to clarify, tier 5 ship got 9 console slot, and fleet version got 10.
the avenger got "only" 9 console slot in cstore version, but 10 in fleet version.
over than that i completely agree that the galaxy x got his console be made integrated again. or make it a part of a set bonus that compensate for the lost of a console slot.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
It doesn't have to be a Scimitar, ANY cloak because OP with you have a Reman boff, doesn't have to be the captain even. Reman Captain can actually stack with a specific Reman boff to make it more punishing.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Best to not give cloak to anymore Fed ships then if this is the reaction we get.
The trolling has been primarily KDF fanboys trying to get the thread locked. :rolleyes: A good example.
If it was a free 'gift' sure. But these are purchased ships, which suddenly being confronted to as being of less value than they should be, because we pay substantially more for what KDF have access to that is so freely considered no cost in terms of balance. Two of which canonically have been shown to cloak on screen, and the third is a new ship, fresh out of the yard and designed likely with assistance from the Romulan Republic, thus cloaking there. Not the whole fleet.
Though, thinking about it, Terran Empire ships cloak in canon. As we have the console, technically in theory we should be able to mount it on any Mirror Universe version of the Starfleet ships we may have. That would certainly expand possibilities and give it new lease on life.
Spoils of war.
I took out those ships, they didn't explode, they're mine now.
My crew and my fleet rebuilt them.
Just a little RP can really help explain some of the oddities in this game even if you're not a full on RP'er.
The ability to the Avenger to use a cloak is not a God given right to the ship, it doesn't even come with a cloaking console. It wasn't developed by Romulans, Iconians, Q, the Terran Empire or Master Yoda. It already comes with a benefit - it gives the Fed. players the chance to use a ship that comes from a branch exclusive to the KDF.
The ability to mount the console is a bouns and a nod to those who already spent money previously on buying the Defiant and the Galaxy-X.
Another example of something like this will be:
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier has the possibilty to use JHAS frigate pets. But it doesn't come with those on purchase and the ability to use them is a bouns and a nod to those customers who spent a lot of money on the JHAS.
Yet people constanly whine on both topics. This has to be the whiniest game forum I have ever seen.
I was going to drop out of this thread (and start drinking) but I feel like if I do I'm giving up my idea for this great game.
The KDF have an awful Science Ship line and Starfleet has awful cloaking ship line. Imperfect Imbalance there. The Klingons are not well known scientists and Starfleet does not have a great history with cloaking tech.
Should Starfleet have cloaks on par with the KDF? No but like everyone said. Cloaks are changing the face of battle (I disagree with this but what do I know). So how about this? The 3 Starfleet cloakable ships get a build in Mask Energy Signature 4/Federation Cloak. It's a cloak but does not match the power of Romulan or KDF styled cloaks. Hopefully Starfleet gets a cloak and they avoid becoming even more like the Terran Empre.
I want to say again. More Counters and Less Copying but I want to ask. What do you think?
Edited: I freaking called it. Why do Starfleet still try to say they are the heroes? With Section 31 ties, the use of underhand tactics, and all the Terran stuff.
You also pay for the Caitian Atrox which has similar stats to the free Voquv save for slightly less hull, slightly more shields, less crew and worse boff layout and worse pets, but will cryptic change that either? no, because Fed isn't a real carrier faction, so you are paying for the privilege of something that your faction normally wouldn't have access to, and it is a slightly inferior version as a result. Same goes with cloak. This is to ensure there are reasons to try all factions. You not wanting to try the KDF and wanting integrated cloak on your Fed is reason why we KDF can't accept this, this would be a disaster for our population. Cryptic can't accept it either as they have invested a lot in making a multi faction game and the other factions dying out would cost them money.
Also Terran Empire ships don't cloak in canon because the only episodes they appeared in on TOS and Enterprise they never cloaked. By the time the Mirror Universe appeared in DS9 the Empire had already collapsed. The MU never appeared on screen again, and thats the only thing thats real canon.
granted, it was a suliban cloaking device they were using, but chances are good that the terran empire was in the process of reverse-engineering the design to build their own model
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Two words: "Enterprise Incident." You all need to watch more Star Trek.
I've decided to spare you the drama of looking up the episode. The TOS Enterprise stole a Romulan cloaking device, installed it, used it, and took it back to Starfleet. All this talk of Gene didn't want the Federation to use cloak is moot. The episode was by D.C. Fontana and not some secondary writer. The only reason the Federation didn't use the technology is probably due to the Treaty of Algeron, and there are indications that the Federation uses the technology in the future.
Project Frontier is right that battle cloak is an arbitrary mechanic. It is only really relevant to pvp. In Pve there is rarely a need to cloak other than for alpha strikes. I would like to see it on the raptors, due to their lower survivability. But cruisers don't really need battlecloak. Do they?
Let me put it to you this way, then.
Ship A is identical to Ship B in every meaningful way. Ship B, however, has an additional CHAIR on the bridge. This chair is situationally useful, but mostly is not that useful, but this chair is pretty comfortable. Ship A can use this chair, too, but it must give up 10% of it's functionality to gain the chair. Ship A is advertised as being able to use the chair, as is ship B, but ship B has 100% functionality plus the chair, while ship A must decide between 100% functionality without the chair, or 90% with the chair.
At the end of the day, it's just a stinking chair. But you know what? If Ship B wasn't identical to Ship A in every way except for that frigging chair, then nobody would be upset. This whole problem is Cryptic's fault for releasing a copy of a ship.
The entire reason why I am butthurt is that my $25 buys me less of a ship than another man's $25. I can run an identical build the klingon version, but he can do something I can't.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel