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Federation Cloaking Device Refit
rgzarcher
Member Posts: 320 Arc User
As the game progresses and new things are added, sadly we see old ones fall to the wayside. The Universal Console Cloaking Device is probably the most obvious and painful example of this issue. It?s become nearly impossible to use in any efficient manner outside of onetime use ambushes.
That being said, I don?t think it?s unsalvageable. It really wouldn?t take much to update this into an effective tool.
Only three ships are able to equip it, and all three are basically pure warships. So, shouldn?t this component reflect that fact?
An easy way to boost its value would be to change it from a Universal Console to a Device, you know, reflecting the name itself. There are already a few non-consumable devices in the game, one that even functions very similarly to a Cloaking Device. This would free up valuable console space on the few ships than can use it. Ships that don?t have much spare room in the Console department if you want to play competitively.
A second reasonable option is what people have been asking for quite some time. To update the Universal Console Cloaking Device to a Battle Cloak. Again, only three ships can use this, so its not exactly game breaking, especially if it remains as a Console. It adds a layer of versatility but still comes at a cost.
The third option would be to make a Fleet grade version that IS a Battle Cloak. This would give further incentive for people to join and build up a Fleet to its final tier levels. It would also be realistic when you consider how technology advances by leaps and bounds during war, standard grade equipment is modified and improved over time.
I suppose a fourth option could be to have a Reputation Project that allows you to refit a Universal Console Cloaking Device to a Universal Console Battle Cloaking Device. It would have to be Tier 5 of course, and require a Universal Console Cloaking Device be used as a token of payment. That way Cryptic would still get their money as people have to buy a Galaxy X or Defiant Retrofit to get it.
The third and fourth options would be most promising I believe, especially with the Romulan?s having entered into things. They have always been the most technologically advanced faction (outside the Borg or similar races) and Cloaking has always been there specialty, so perhaps something through the Embassy if not Reputation?
Anyone have thoughts or ideas on this matter?
That being said, I don?t think it?s unsalvageable. It really wouldn?t take much to update this into an effective tool.
Only three ships are able to equip it, and all three are basically pure warships. So, shouldn?t this component reflect that fact?
An easy way to boost its value would be to change it from a Universal Console to a Device, you know, reflecting the name itself. There are already a few non-consumable devices in the game, one that even functions very similarly to a Cloaking Device. This would free up valuable console space on the few ships than can use it. Ships that don?t have much spare room in the Console department if you want to play competitively.
A second reasonable option is what people have been asking for quite some time. To update the Universal Console Cloaking Device to a Battle Cloak. Again, only three ships can use this, so its not exactly game breaking, especially if it remains as a Console. It adds a layer of versatility but still comes at a cost.
The third option would be to make a Fleet grade version that IS a Battle Cloak. This would give further incentive for people to join and build up a Fleet to its final tier levels. It would also be realistic when you consider how technology advances by leaps and bounds during war, standard grade equipment is modified and improved over time.
I suppose a fourth option could be to have a Reputation Project that allows you to refit a Universal Console Cloaking Device to a Universal Console Battle Cloaking Device. It would have to be Tier 5 of course, and require a Universal Console Cloaking Device be used as a token of payment. That way Cryptic would still get their money as people have to buy a Galaxy X or Defiant Retrofit to get it.
The third and fourth options would be most promising I believe, especially with the Romulan?s having entered into things. They have always been the most technologically advanced faction (outside the Borg or similar races) and Cloaking has always been there specialty, so perhaps something through the Embassy if not Reputation?
Anyone have thoughts or ideas on this matter?
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Post edited by rgzarcher on
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(It has been discussed two hundred times, it's not going to happen)
That said, I do like the idea of either a fleet version of the console, or the ability to upgrade a cloak console to a battle cloak. The only issue I see is that it'd be a bit unfair for Klingon players, since all the cloaks on klingon ships are built in, so there'd be no way to upgrade a cloak to battle cloak for, say, a Vorcha.
Gene Roddenberry said it himself, the the Federation through Starfleet are explorers, not cats creeping around stealthily like Klingons or Romulans.
And as to that Romulan cloak on the Defiant? Very likely that was a less powerful older model that the Romulans felt was obsolete.
That might be true, yet Gene Roddenberry DID create Federation General Order 24 (ANY Federation Captain may order the destruction of all life upon a planet should it prove to be a threat to the Federation) and we likewise have Article 14 Section 31 on the books.
People have complained about Federation Warship citing that they are explorers, but honestly I think that's a bit blown out of context. When Q threw the Enterprise out a ways what happened? They ran into the Borg. Look at history, explorers can and often do come across threats, and as a result they are armed for a reason.
I'm not saying to allow ALL Federation ships to have access to a Battle Cloak system, I'm simply suggesting that three SPECIFIC ships be granted access to an upgrade where they already loose a console slot to have a barely viable Cloaking Device.
As for the argument that the Defiant used an old outdated model. Two things. First when Kirk and Spock stole a Cloaking Device they were able to activate it while running at Red Alert. Second the Federation was able to nearly complete a functional phase cloak. I think it wouldn't be too far a leap in logic.
Besides, it would be nice to give the Galaxy X a bone to lord over the Odessy for a change you know -.-
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Well don't forget that the Federation had already developed a better cloak on its own: the Intangibility cloak. With how many people don't want feds to have a cloak (which is dumb, because they've had it for years), i don't see why they don't just take a pass at the whole system. Battle cloak has been the basic default canon cloak for centuries in trek lore.
I've always felt that the Cloak is by default, a battle cloak. I hit the button, it makes me invisible. That's how it worked in Canon, and that's how it should work in game. In terms of balance, or keeping up with the Jones', i have no issue with the KDF getting better bonuses or such, to keep them happy, but by default, all cloaks should work regardless of combat.
I for one would love for Cryptic to take the initiative and introduce the intangible cloak for the Feds to use as their "Advanced Cloak". If this game is (story wise) the future of everything we've seen on screen, why are we forced to use such outdated technology? Shouldn't all three factions be capable of making better cloaking devices? Since the romulans are allies, and the KDF can help us on common enemies, wouldn't it serve all factions to be able to use advanced cloaking technology for these threats?
Even from the games standpoint, these are mechanics that were introduced in beta, and have long been outdated with all the new consoles and Zen ships, why not just go back and rework the Cloak as a whole, to be better in the game as it is now? As i said earlier, the Feds have had cloak for years, and in canon, they even built a better cloak for themselves. I can't really see that any of 2 and a half factions would ever really just say "welp, i'm hard to see, and i think that's good enough. I'll never have to make a better cloak... everrrrrrrrrrr....."
MY FLEET:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=498091
I know the way it is encourages more romulan ship sales and if there was a successful counter then it would hurt the bottom line, but if this were more than a money grab then there would be more consistency in cloak usage and detection across the factions. As it stands a ship can come up to 1 km from me and open fire and I would never sense it. That is ridiculous, stupid, and plain lame design.
You are right, i dont think feds need the battle cloak. They do need very robust cloak detection though. That is totally inline with their banner of peace.
Your idea hinges on one important assumption: that the Romulans gave Starfleet a top of the line cloak and not an outdated model.
Remember in "The Next Phase" Worf and Riker were unwilling to give the Romulans a modern computer core and ended up giving them something some 40 years old.
So if one side is unwilling to give the other a modern computer would the Romulans give a secret top of the line cloaking device to the other side?
I find it extremely amusing that you go out of your way to differentiate between the NX-74205 and the Defiant class, yet use the fact that the NX-74205 had a romulan cloak as the justification for all Defiant class ships to have a similar cloak.
Please read my post over while carefully, carefully looking for the section where I make the argument that the Defiant class as a whole should have a battle cloak (it's not there). I very carefully personally re-read my post and I have to say that you are not reading what I wrote. My argument was very specifically about the KNOWN, INDIVIDUAL Federation ships which had cloaking devices. That is the point to differentiating between the Defiant, and the class of ships which bear its name. at no point of my argument after that distinction did I mention the class of ship, only the Defiant, and the Galaxy X Enterprise Dreadnaught.
Preconceptions and personal opinion on this topic have clouded my actual argument for you apparently. Please find a rhetoric professor and have them clarify my argument for you. however a punctuation error on my part might have lead to your misunderstanding.
an important part of my argument is this line. at the same time the Defiant should, per canon, be the ONLY Fed ship to ever have even the possibility of the Romulan battle cloak tech.
that line says that the Defiant should be the ONLY ship. NOT that the Defiant class should be the only class of ships. A critical bit of the argument which invalidates the above reply.
I am a tactial captain, in a combat based warship, that is rarely ever on missions of diplomacy. I play the ship and crew as they were part of Section 31, and as such, being able to cloak when i hit the button, would make a lot of sense, even if it weren't just something to give me a buff before striking again. I just feel like cloak should be one of the aspects that was closer to canon, they could even make it a console all around, that way you could have the various grades and types like they do in the shows(like how they did war cores). There could even be a faction intelligence rep that would unlock your faction's specific advanced battle cloak at T5. Just as a note though, the Klingons would still get the Torp cloak as a separate cloak console, but they would also get a better Advanced cloak as the T5 rep reward.
There are numerous ways the Federation could be using cloak as well, not just for the hit and run tactics, but for exploring hostile areas, search/rescue/evac, intelligence gathering in the sphere. It just doesn't make sense that the Federation is at war with apparently EVERYONE, and many of those races can cloak, yet the Feds wouldn't. The Defiant was able to get cloak as a joint Venture with the Romulans for exploring Dominion space, how is that any different than the Dyson Sphere? Even the Klingons are on our side there, so it's not like they would really gripe about cloaks.
R.I.P
[Console - Universal - Federation Whining Device Reftrofit]
LMAO :P
All that Battle Cloaking stuff is overdone in STO imo ... the whole Romulan Faction with their battle cloaks is, there are way too many battle cloaking ships around...
Anyways, i agree on the Device thing ... and that for all cloaks, romulan and kdf as well, but hell no to more battle cloak
As for the Federation. . .you lot will likely never be happy with any improvements to your cloaking options. Make the console into a device, and you'll start complaining about the 'wasted' device slot or the lack of ships able to use the thing. Stop beating the dead horse. . .you are not going to get your own line of ships with cloaks. Make do with the Avenger, Defiant, and Dreadnought.
No offense then, the KDF needs to stop whining about their supposed lack of ships.
butcher suspect, "What'd you hit me with?"
Temperance Brennan, "A building"
Roddenberry died in 1991, the Defiant started cloaking in 1995, and it doesn't matter if the Romulans put their most advanced cloaking device or least on the Defiant, Battle Cloaks are an arbitrary mechanic of Cryptic's design and have no bearing on the fiction itself.
Anything else?
And I stress the "arbitrary mechanic" part of that statement.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's not 'supposed', it's a reality. There's a difference between Federation folks greedily demanding more goodies, as opposed to the KDF wanting some completion and equality. The KDF has been LOSING whatever counter-balances it had for the lack of ships. Of course, you lot don't care. You get your carriers, your new battlecruiser, your 5-fore-weapon ships, your 5 tac-console escorts, and then hold out your hands for more.
well i agree with you on this. besides all the times a fed used a cloak in the show it always ended badly. The Defiant's cloak would malfunction if you looked at it funny, and the USS Pegasus well got trapped in a rock
PS: voth/Tal Shiar ships don't use battlecloaks, there standard. I for one am happy that cryptic made them that way. If i remember correctly the reasoning behind the Tal Shiar ships not having a battlecloak was due to some incompatibility with the borg tech and the cloak itself.
MY FLEET:http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=498091
Starfleet dose not use cloaking tech but on 3 ship an then only 2 from the T.V. shows. if Fe playes can use cloaking devices then what is the point in playing rRomulans, or playing on the KDF factions. the Fed faction has a lot more going for it than Romulan but mostly more than KDF. U you want a ship that is cloakable play Romulan or KDF.
Option 1: As you pointed out, this would free up valuable console space. What other penalty would you suggest be applied to balance out access to the additional console slot, or would you suggest a buff to the other factions' ships instead?
Option 2: That sounds reasonable, assuming Raptors and KDF Battle Cruisers also receive this upgrade and the Raptor turn rate bug repaired, KBoPs receive a major buff from their current stats (they need a moderate buff already), and Warbirds have their power penalty reduced or modified to offset with Singularity Charge.
Option 3: Given the similarity to Option 2, I suggest the same thing, though since Option 3 only applies to Fleet versions the bonuses to the other factions' ships should be applied to their Fleet ships.
Option 4: Sure, as long as there was also a Reputation project at the same cost that allowed for an upgrade of innate cloaking devices in a given ship. Raptors and KDF Battle Cruisers could upgrade to a Battle Cloak, BoPs and Warbirds could upgrade to an Enhanced Battle Cloak, and the B'Rel and T'Varo could upgrade to keep their shields up when cloaked.
There have been a bunch of posts along these lines before, and they usually leave out buffing the other factions for some reason.
I suppose we could adjust the Fleet Defiant to have the base stats of a Fleet Norgh, keep the current boff/console setup, and make the Universal Console - Cloaking Device perform as a Battle Cloak when used on it... but I doubt that would make owners of the Fleet Defiant any happier. Folks that haven't tried out a KBoP don't really seem to understand how squishy they are (take the Voth procs for example)... or how inconvenient that missing weapon slot is when building around Reputation sets. Having the option to trade one console slot for a Cloaking Device is much nicer than you seem to think it is... you get to keep better base stats than any of the other factions that way.