Bah, so much whining here... Avenger never should have a cloak.
There are some changes that need to be made.
Cloak needs to be integrated on Gal-X (it WAS, originally! Back when 9 consoles was thought to be too much for 1 ship lol -- remember this ship is SUPER old). The Deffy I can see arguments for it being both integrated and not. How do you transfer that to the fleet deffy? So I'd like to see NO cloak device for the Gal-X (integrated) but make a Z-store DEVICE (not CONSOLE) for the Deffy and Fleet Deffy only. Buy it, and you can move it to the fleet. Don't buy it (i.e. use fleet modules) and you don't get it for your fleet deffy.
Or as I mentioned in a different post, make the device turn an integrated cloak into a battlecloak. Just... NO consoles.
Avenger didn't need cloak console from the other ships. It's only got 9 consoles. It's not enough for a pretty pricey and top-end ship. We're not talking Tier4 here. We're talking pay2win. Shouldn't 1) lose a console and 2) lose ANOTHER for cloak.
Bah, so much whining here... Avenger never should have a cloak.
There are some changes that need to be made.
Cloak needs to be integrated on Gal-X (it WAS, originally! Back when 9 consoles was thought to be too much for 1 ship lol -- remember this ship is SUPER old). The Deffy I can see arguments for it being both integrated and not. How do you transfer that to the fleet deffy? So I'd like to see NO cloak device for the Gal-X (integrated) but make a Z-store DEVICE (not CONSOLE) for the Deffy and Fleet Deffy only. Buy it, and you can move it to the fleet. Don't buy it (i.e. use fleet modules) and you don't get it for your fleet deffy.
Or as I mentioned in a different post, make the device turn an integrated cloak into a battlecloak. Just... NO consoles.
Avenger didn't need cloak console from the other ships. It's only got 9 consoles. It's not enough for a pretty pricey and top-end ship. We're not talking Tier4 here. We're talking pay2win. Shouldn't 1) lose a console and 2) lose ANOTHER for cloak.
As for the Gal-X, that's a another beast entirely in terms of problems and shortcomings that should be addressed by the Devs.
As for the Avenger matter, regardless if it should, it does come with cloak ability, inferior and twice the cost in the end. Thanks Cryptic for saying blue purchases which kept the game alive aren't worth as much anymore. How Blizzard of you all. :P
Here's an even more simple fix, if the Avenger is 'fine as is' and the Devs see no issue, then as it is an inferior ship, they should knock the price down and retroactively refund all who bought it the price difference as it isn't worth the same as the Mogh. :rolleyes:
Bah, so much whining here... Avenger never should have a cloak.
There are some changes that need to be made.
Cloak needs to be integrated on Gal-X (it WAS, originally! Back when 9 consoles was thought to be too much for 1 ship lol -- remember this ship is SUPER old). The Deffy I can see arguments for it being both integrated and not. How do you transfer that to the fleet deffy? So I'd like to see NO cloak device for the Gal-X (integrated) but make a Z-store DEVICE (not CONSOLE) for the Deffy and Fleet Deffy only. Buy it, and you can move it to the fleet. Don't buy it (i.e. use fleet modules) and you don't get it for your fleet deffy.
Or as I mentioned in a different post, make the device turn an integrated cloak into a battlecloak. Just... NO consoles.
Avenger didn't need cloak console from the other ships. It's only got 9 consoles. It's not enough for a pretty pricey and top-end ship. We're not talking Tier4 here. We're talking pay2win. Shouldn't 1) lose a console and 2) lose ANOTHER for cloak.
the galaxy x never have 9 console slot right from the start, it was 8.
he was given 9 in season 5: call to arms when his cloack was transform into a console.
i bielieve it was the only tier 5 ship to have only 8 console slot.
it was also the only tactical ship to have only 2 tact console.
it was also the only cruiser to have 6base turn rate ( with the gal refit of course ).
a ship born to break record as it seem;)
also to clarify, tier 5 ship got 9 console slot, and fleet version got 10.
the avenger got "only" 9 console slot in cstore version, but 10 in fleet version.
over than that i completely agree that the galaxy x got his console be made integrated again. or make it a part of a set bonus that compensate for the lost of a console slot.
* -5 Current Shield Power per sec
* +3 Flight Speed
* +50% Defense
* After Decloaking, +25% Damage Bonus for a brief duration
* After 3 sec, +11.8 Flight Turn Rate
* After 3 sec, +5,105 Stealth (at Auxiliary Power 50)
Thats not even factoring Scimitar unique cloak capabilities and Reman racial trait bonus.
Cloak can only be used once or rather, moment they decloak they have to leave Red Alert status to recloak, meaning disengage from combat.
Dont even compare a Console Cloak with a Scimitar Cloak, you should not even compare a Battlecloak with a Romulan Battlecloak.
It doesn't have to be a Scimitar, ANY cloak because OP with you have a Reman boff, doesn't have to be the captain even. Reman Captain can actually stack with a specific Reman boff to make it more punishing.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
You would think Feds would be grateful to use technology they aren't even supposed to have, instead all we get is a 31 page troll thread full of complaints.:rolleyes:
Best to not give cloak to anymore Fed ships then if this is the reaction we get.
You would think Feds would be grateful to use technology they aren't even supposed to have, instead all we get is a 31 page troll thread full of complaints.:rolleyes:
Best to not give cloak to anymore Fed ships then if this is the reaction we get.
The trolling has been primarily KDF fanboys trying to get the thread locked. :rolleyes: A good example.
If it was a free 'gift' sure. But these are purchased ships, which suddenly being confronted to as being of less value than they should be, because we pay substantially more for what KDF have access to that is so freely considered no cost in terms of balance. Two of which canonically have been shown to cloak on screen, and the third is a new ship, fresh out of the yard and designed likely with assistance from the Romulan Republic, thus cloaking there. Not the whole fleet.
Though, thinking about it, Terran Empire ships cloak in canon. As we have the console, technically in theory we should be able to mount it on any Mirror Universe version of the Starfleet ships we may have. That would certainly expand possibilities and give it new lease on life.
I'd say this game lost all connection to the tv shows when Starfleet and the kdf went to using cardassian, ferengi, jem hadar, tholian, iconian, and voth ships.
Spoils of war.
I took out those ships, they didn't explode, they're mine now.
My crew and my fleet rebuilt them.
Just a little RP can really help explain some of the oddities in this game even if you're not a full on RP'er.
Let me try to explain this to you if it's at all possible for you to comprehend it:
The ability to the Avenger to use a cloak is not a God given right to the ship, it doesn't even come with a cloaking console. It wasn't developed by Romulans, Iconians, Q, the Terran Empire or Master Yoda. It already comes with a benefit - it gives the Fed. players the chance to use a ship that comes from a branch exclusive to the KDF.
The ability to mount the console is a bouns and a nod to those who already spent money previously on buying the Defiant and the Galaxy-X.
Another example of something like this will be:
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier has the possibilty to use JHAS frigate pets. But it doesn't come with those on purchase and the ability to use them is a bouns and a nod to those customers who spent a lot of money on the JHAS.
Yet people constanly whine on both topics. This has to be the whiniest game forum I have ever seen.
While I still stand behind my "More Counters, Less Copying" idea I see no one else willing to do so.
I was going to drop out of this thread (and start drinking) but I feel like if I do I'm giving up my idea for this great game.
The KDF have an awful Science Ship line and Starfleet has awful cloaking ship line. Imperfect Imbalance there. The Klingons are not well known scientists and Starfleet does not have a great history with cloaking tech.
Should Starfleet have cloaks on par with the KDF? No but like everyone said. Cloaks are changing the face of battle (I disagree with this but what do I know). So how about this? The 3 Starfleet cloakable ships get a build in Mask Energy Signature 4/Federation Cloak. It's a cloak but does not match the power of Romulan or KDF styled cloaks. Hopefully Starfleet gets a cloak and they avoid becoming even more like the Terran Empre.
I want to say again. More Counters and Less Copying but I want to ask. What do you think?
Edited: I freaking called it. Why do Starfleet still try to say they are the heroes? With Section 31 ties, the use of underhand tactics, and all the Terran stuff.
The trolling has been primarily KDF fanboys trying to get the thread locked. :rolleyes: A good example.
If it was a free 'gift' sure. But these are purchased ships, which suddenly being confronted to as being of less value than they should be, because we pay substantially more for what KDF have access to that is so freely considered no cost in terms of balance. Two of which canonically have been shown to cloak on screen, and the third is a new ship, fresh out of the yard and designed likely with assistance from the Romulan Republic, thus cloaking there. Not the whole fleet.
Though, thinking about it, Terran Empire ships cloak in canon. As we have the console, technically in theory we should be able to mount it on any Mirror Universe version of the Starfleet ships we may have. That would certainly expand possibilities and give it new lease on life.
You also pay for the Caitian Atrox which has similar stats to the free Voquv save for slightly less hull, slightly more shields, less crew and worse boff layout and worse pets, but will cryptic change that either? no, because Fed isn't a real carrier faction, so you are paying for the privilege of something that your faction normally wouldn't have access to, and it is a slightly inferior version as a result. Same goes with cloak. This is to ensure there are reasons to try all factions. You not wanting to try the KDF and wanting integrated cloak on your Fed is reason why we KDF can't accept this, this would be a disaster for our population. Cryptic can't accept it either as they have invested a lot in making a multi faction game and the other factions dying out would cost them money.
Also Terran Empire ships don't cloak in canon because the only episodes they appeared in on TOS and Enterprise they never cloaked. By the time the Mirror Universe appeared in DS9 the Empire had already collapsed. The MU never appeared on screen again, and thats the only thing thats real canon.
Also Terran Empire ships don't cloak in canon because the only episodes they appeared in on TOS and Enterprise they never cloaked. By the time the Mirror Universe appeared in DS9 the Empire had already collapsed. The MU never appeared on screen again, and thats the only thing thats real canon.
granted, it was a suliban cloaking device they were using, but chances are good that the terran empire was in the process of reverse-engineering the design to build their own model
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Roddenberry died in 1991, the Defiant started cloaking in 1995, and it doesn't matter if the Romulans put their most advanced cloaking device or least on the Defiant, Battle Cloaks are an arbitrary mechanic of Cryptic's design and have no bearing on the fiction itself.
Anything else?
And I stress the "arbitrary mechanic" part of that statement.
Two words: "Enterprise Incident." You all need to watch more Star Trek.
I've decided to spare you the drama of looking up the episode. The TOS Enterprise stole a Romulan cloaking device, installed it, used it, and took it back to Starfleet. All this talk of Gene didn't want the Federation to use cloak is moot. The episode was by D.C. Fontana and not some secondary writer. The only reason the Federation didn't use the technology is probably due to the Treaty of Algeron, and there are indications that the Federation uses the technology in the future.
Project Frontier is right that battle cloak is an arbitrary mechanic. It is only really relevant to pvp. In Pve there is rarely a need to cloak other than for alpha strikes. I would like to see it on the raptors, due to their lower survivability. But cruisers don't really need battlecloak. Do they?
Let me try to explain this to you if it's at all possible for you to comprehend it:
The ability to the Avenger to use a cloak is not a God given right to the ship, it doesn't even come with a cloaking console. It wasn't developed by Romulans, Iconians, Q, the Terran Empire or Master Yoda. It already comes with a benefit - it gives the Fed. players the chance to use a ship that comes from a branch exclusive to the KDF.
The ability to mount the console is a bouns and a nod to those who already spent money previously on buying the Defiant and the Galaxy-X.
Another example of something like this will be:
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier has the possibilty to use JHAS frigate pets. But it doesn't come with those on purchase and the ability to use them is a bouns and a nod to those customers who spent a lot of money on the JHAS.
Yet people constanly whine on both topics. This has to be the whiniest game forum I have ever seen.
Let me put it to you this way, then.
Ship A is identical to Ship B in every meaningful way. Ship B, however, has an additional CHAIR on the bridge. This chair is situationally useful, but mostly is not that useful, but this chair is pretty comfortable. Ship A can use this chair, too, but it must give up 10% of it's functionality to gain the chair. Ship A is advertised as being able to use the chair, as is ship B, but ship B has 100% functionality plus the chair, while ship A must decide between 100% functionality without the chair, or 90% with the chair.
At the end of the day, it's just a stinking chair. But you know what? If Ship B wasn't identical to Ship A in every way except for that frigging chair, then nobody would be upset. This whole problem is Cryptic's fault for releasing a copy of a ship.
The entire reason why I am butthurt is that my $25 buys me less of a ship than another man's $25. I can run an identical build the klingon version, but he can do something I can't.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Ship A is identical to Ship B in every meaningful way. Ship B, however, has an additional CHAIR on the bridge. This chair is situationally useful, but mostly is not that useful, but this chair is pretty comfortable. Ship A can use this chair, too, but it must give up 10% of it's functionality to gain the chair. Ship A is advertised as being able to use the chair, as is ship B, but ship B has 100% functionality plus the chair, while ship A must decide between 100% functionality without the chair, or 90% with the chair.
At the end of the day, it's just a stinking chair. But you know what? If Ship B wasn't identical to Ship A in every way except for that frigging chair, then nobody would be upset. This whole problem is Cryptic's fault for releasing a copy of a ship.
The entire reason why I am butthurt is that my $25 buys me less of a ship than another man's $25. I can run an identical build the klingon version, but he can do something I can't.
I applaud you sir, simple and right to the point, yet elegant in it's own right.
The entire reason why I am butthurt is that my $25 buys me less of a ship than another man's $25. I can run an identical build the klingon version, but he can do something I can't.
lol Some of you guys really don't see the big picture, do you? Or it just doesn't support your arguments so you don't want to see it?
Let me put it this way then:
I have a Joined Trill KDF Science officer. The only proffesion specific ship I have at end game in the ship roster is the Varanus, a ship identical to the Fed. DSSV in every meaningful way. Except that it has -5 power to aux compared to the DSSV. Oh yeah, and the DSSV is free for Feds. while the Varanus costs 20$.
So my 20$ buys me less of a ship than another man's free ship. Yet, I'm not butthurt and whining all around the forum cursing devs., fed players, Gene Roddenberry or the Great Cthulhu. Starting to get the picture now?
Ship A is identical to Ship B in every meaningful way. Ship B, however, has an additional CHAIR on the bridge. This chair is situationally useful, but mostly is not that useful, but this chair is pretty comfortable. Ship A can use this chair, too, but it must give up 10% of it's functionality to gain the chair. Ship A is advertised as being able to use the chair, as is ship B, but ship B has 100% functionality plus the chair, while ship A must decide between 100% functionality without the chair, or 90% with the chair.
At the end of the day, it's just a stinking chair. But you know what? If Ship B wasn't identical to Ship A in every way except for that frigging chair, then nobody would be upset. This whole problem is Cryptic's fault for releasing a copy of a ship.
The entire reason why I am butthurt is that my $25 buys me less of a ship than another man's $25. I can run an identical build the klingon version, but he can do something I can't.
Such an elementary way to break it down, yet it's so good I had to actually give this post a moment of applause. This is the basic, most utterly basic way to explain it. There really isn't anything to justify it.
Sadly, the Klinkun Fanboys still won't see it for what it is I'm sure.
Such an elementary way to break it down, yet it's so good I had to actually give this post a moment of applause. This is the basic, most utterly basic way to explain it. There really isn't anything to justify it.
Sadly, the Klinkun Fanboys still won't see it for what it is I'm sure.
Yup applaud ignorance and ignore the post in which I dissasembled his entire point that is flawed. :rolleyes:
You basically turned this into your personal whining thread, unfortunately something that is so typical to the STO forum.
If those 3 ships was the only ones that Starfleet could buy then yes. There would be a reason to make them a pure copies of Klingons ships. But as shpoks said both sides have some ships that compared to the other are poor watered down versions of the other faction ship classes.
So the day when the Varanus becomes on par with the Intrepid Retrofit, the Nebula Retrofit, or heavens forbid the Vesta line then you maybe could have a leg to stand on with asking to become more like the Klingon faction.
Could you please give counter-points to what others and myself have said and not point the Klingons (They do not like that :P)
PS: Outside of the crack about Starfleet becoming more like the Terran Empire I have not said one think wrong toward both of the factions. I'm asking everyone to do the same.
This console can be installed on ANY Warbird. Now is it a 'great' console? No. Is it a very useful console? Yes, very much so as you can use it while under fire. Now Romulans are suppose to be the guru of cloaking tech, so I'm not going to complain about them having perfected a piece of Starfleet technology as its FAR from the only case of this happening in the game.
This lone console is actually all I will use for my argument. To get it you must purchase the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier for 2000 Zen.
Now unlike the horrendously unfair Romulan Phase cloak, which can be bolted on to any Warbird, the KDF Phase Cloak can only be installed onto TWO ships, just two. The Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and the Kar'Fi Fleet Battle Carrier.
Now, for the exact same money, we are using a 'bolted on' after market part that 'we' didnt create. If its aftermarket and bolted on, then technically we should also be able to put it on the Exploration Cruiser, all three variants as they did so in TNG. Enterprise D wasn't altered or refit for the Phase Cloak, the Phase Cloak itself was refit in the span of a few hours.
Romulans pay $5 to $10 less for the top of the line cloaking CONSOLE. KDF pay the same or $5 less for a superior CONSOLE. Same price, less value.
Now I have seen the argument that giving these three ships inherit cloaking would mean no reason for people to play factions other than Federation. Next time you go to Earth Space Dock take a nice long hard look at the ships around you.
50% will be Odyssey or Sovereign. 40% will be Romulan *insert name of Warbird* and the remaining 10% will be a mix of everything else.
For all the talk of KDF not having anything equal to the Intrepid or Nebula, I find it rather interesting that no Federation player uses these ships hardly. I honestly cant remember the last time I saw someone else using a Nebula or Intrepid. Must be a PvP thing I guess.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
This console can be installed on ANY Warbird. Now is it a 'great' console? No. Is it a very useful console? Yes, very much so as you can use it while under fire. Now Romulans are suppose to be the guru of cloaking tech, so I'm not going to complain about them having perfected a piece of Starfleet technology as its FAR from the only case of this happening in the game.
This lone console is actually all I will use for my argument. To get it you must purchase the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier for 2000 Zen.
Now unlike the horrendously unfair Romulan Phase cloak, which can be bolted on to any Warbird, the KDF Phase Cloak can only be installed onto TWO ships, just two. The Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and the Kar'Fi Fleet Battle Carrier.
Now, for the exact same money, we are using a 'bolted on' after market part that 'we' didnt create. If its aftermarket and bolted on, then technically we should also be able to put it on the Exploration Cruiser, all three variants as they did so in TNG. Enterprise D wasn't altered or refit for the Phase Cloak, the Phase Cloak itself was refit in the span of a few hours.
Romulans pay $5 to $10 less for the top of the line cloaking CONSOLE. KDF pay the same or $5 less for a superior CONSOLE. Same price, less value.
Now I have seen the argument that giving these three ships inherit cloaking would mean no reason for people to play factions other than Federation. Next time you go to Earth Space Dock take a nice long hard look at the ships around you.
50% will be Odyssey or Sovereign. 40% will be Romulan *insert name of Warbird* and the remaining 10% will be a mix of everything else.
For all the talk of KDF not having anything equal to the Intrepid or Nebula, I find it rather interesting that no Federation player uses these ships hardly. I honestly cant remember the last time I saw someone else using a Nebula or Intrepid. Must be a PvP thing I guess.
What about the Vesta? The only non-lockbox ship that is on par with only with timeships as the biggest sci ships around.
What about the Vesta? The only non-lockbox ship that is on par with only with timeships as the biggest sci ships around.
I think on average there will be two, maybe three in an instance.
From what I am seeing though Fed players only use Sci ships in PvP to deal with cloakers...but other than that they don't use them. Interesting, KDF players what ships they fight regularly but are used no other place in all of STO outside rare cases, while Fed players would like three ships to have what every KDF ship has.
"Why all the sales"?
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
What about the Vesta? The only non-lockbox ship that is on par with only with timeships as the biggest sci ships around.
Lol you must be joking. Vesta is junk compared with what its available for kdf, sci related. So its a 3 ships pack, sure, but all 3 ships got near to useless consoles. A drain build on varanus/fleet varanus with an aceton or even better on a kar'fi with aceton and syphon drones outmatch the vesta pack, even at a lower cost.
But its all clear now why kdf starts to post here, they fear a usefull cloak for fed side will balance things in PvP. And especially for defiant. I think I even saw a few admiting that they dont mind if the gal-x gets a build-in cloak. Probably cuz it will still be a crappy underpowered ship. Funny, so on that ship it wont break the "innate cloak for kdf only" :rolleyes:
And I still dont get what federation has unique oposed to the kdf?? All I see around is: build-in cloak is for kdf only, carriers belonged to them aswell, battlecuisers too, the highest options for IP energy type hybrid procs (distruptor) too, best consoles from under T5 ships too, etc.
So tell me what has federation? And dont say that lame escuse "3 times more ships", cuz quantity never beats quality. A pile over another pile of useless ships, with slight higher hull but gimped dmg its not an excuse to make kdf ships better. Killing faster > dying slower. A 3-4k more hull doesnt make up for better skills (most build-in like cloaks or siege mode/javelin), mounted dhcs, higher turn and even availability, wich is a huge advantage (like the fleet tor'kat was available after 2-3 months after S6 release while some fleets still dont have acces to an equivalet ship like the fleet assault cruiser wich its locked under T5, not T2 like fleet tor'kat in respective fleet holding).
Sci ships are more then drain builds (which based on what the pvp part of the forums was nerfed).
Lets look at what the Vesta can do. Get out of well speced grav wells thank to a console (saving EM, AP:O, and other powers that counter grav well for other things). Avoid siphon drone and other close range attacks by making a force bubble around it self. Dump weapon and still have an ok base attack with it aux cannons. Hell itself and others while buffing the damage of its own grav well against with a console. And here is the best one. Counter the KDF's "best" attack, the evil Alpha-Strike by becoming a perfect shield.
All this without touching other ships for consoles or anything. That is kind of awesome.
Comments
There are some changes that need to be made.
Cloak needs to be integrated on Gal-X (it WAS, originally! Back when 9 consoles was thought to be too much for 1 ship lol -- remember this ship is SUPER old). The Deffy I can see arguments for it being both integrated and not. How do you transfer that to the fleet deffy? So I'd like to see NO cloak device for the Gal-X (integrated) but make a Z-store DEVICE (not CONSOLE) for the Deffy and Fleet Deffy only. Buy it, and you can move it to the fleet. Don't buy it (i.e. use fleet modules) and you don't get it for your fleet deffy.
Or as I mentioned in a different post, make the device turn an integrated cloak into a battlecloak. Just... NO consoles.
Avenger didn't need cloak console from the other ships. It's only got 9 consoles. It's not enough for a pretty pricey and top-end ship. We're not talking Tier4 here. We're talking pay2win. Shouldn't 1) lose a console and 2) lose ANOTHER for cloak.
As for the Gal-X, that's a another beast entirely in terms of problems and shortcomings that should be addressed by the Devs.
As for the Avenger matter, regardless if it should, it does come with cloak ability, inferior and twice the cost in the end. Thanks Cryptic for saying blue purchases which kept the game alive aren't worth as much anymore. How Blizzard of you all. :P
Here's an even more simple fix, if the Avenger is 'fine as is' and the Devs see no issue, then as it is an inferior ship, they should knock the price down and retroactively refund all who bought it the price difference as it isn't worth the same as the Mogh. :rolleyes:
the galaxy x never have 9 console slot right from the start, it was 8.
he was given 9 in season 5: call to arms when his cloack was transform into a console.
i bielieve it was the only tier 5 ship to have only 8 console slot.
it was also the only tactical ship to have only 2 tact console.
it was also the only cruiser to have 6base turn rate ( with the gal refit of course ).
a ship born to break record as it seem;)
also to clarify, tier 5 ship got 9 console slot, and fleet version got 10.
the avenger got "only" 9 console slot in cstore version, but 10 in fleet version.
over than that i completely agree that the galaxy x got his console be made integrated again. or make it a part of a set bonus that compensate for the lost of a console slot.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=528931&page=271
It doesn't have to be a Scimitar, ANY cloak because OP with you have a Reman boff, doesn't have to be the captain even. Reman Captain can actually stack with a specific Reman boff to make it more punishing.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Best to not give cloak to anymore Fed ships then if this is the reaction we get.
The trolling has been primarily KDF fanboys trying to get the thread locked. :rolleyes: A good example.
If it was a free 'gift' sure. But these are purchased ships, which suddenly being confronted to as being of less value than they should be, because we pay substantially more for what KDF have access to that is so freely considered no cost in terms of balance. Two of which canonically have been shown to cloak on screen, and the third is a new ship, fresh out of the yard and designed likely with assistance from the Romulan Republic, thus cloaking there. Not the whole fleet.
Though, thinking about it, Terran Empire ships cloak in canon. As we have the console, technically in theory we should be able to mount it on any Mirror Universe version of the Starfleet ships we may have. That would certainly expand possibilities and give it new lease on life.
Spoils of war.
I took out those ships, they didn't explode, they're mine now.
My crew and my fleet rebuilt them.
Just a little RP can really help explain some of the oddities in this game even if you're not a full on RP'er.
The ability to the Avenger to use a cloak is not a God given right to the ship, it doesn't even come with a cloaking console. It wasn't developed by Romulans, Iconians, Q, the Terran Empire or Master Yoda. It already comes with a benefit - it gives the Fed. players the chance to use a ship that comes from a branch exclusive to the KDF.
The ability to mount the console is a bouns and a nod to those who already spent money previously on buying the Defiant and the Galaxy-X.
Another example of something like this will be:
The Jem'Hadar Dreadnought Carrier has the possibilty to use JHAS frigate pets. But it doesn't come with those on purchase and the ability to use them is a bouns and a nod to those customers who spent a lot of money on the JHAS.
Yet people constanly whine on both topics. This has to be the whiniest game forum I have ever seen.
I was going to drop out of this thread (and start drinking) but I feel like if I do I'm giving up my idea for this great game.
The KDF have an awful Science Ship line and Starfleet has awful cloaking ship line. Imperfect Imbalance there. The Klingons are not well known scientists and Starfleet does not have a great history with cloaking tech.
Should Starfleet have cloaks on par with the KDF? No but like everyone said. Cloaks are changing the face of battle (I disagree with this but what do I know). So how about this? The 3 Starfleet cloakable ships get a build in Mask Energy Signature 4/Federation Cloak. It's a cloak but does not match the power of Romulan or KDF styled cloaks. Hopefully Starfleet gets a cloak and they avoid becoming even more like the Terran Empre.
I want to say again. More Counters and Less Copying but I want to ask. What do you think?
Edited: I freaking called it. Why do Starfleet still try to say they are the heroes? With Section 31 ties, the use of underhand tactics, and all the Terran stuff.
You also pay for the Caitian Atrox which has similar stats to the free Voquv save for slightly less hull, slightly more shields, less crew and worse boff layout and worse pets, but will cryptic change that either? no, because Fed isn't a real carrier faction, so you are paying for the privilege of something that your faction normally wouldn't have access to, and it is a slightly inferior version as a result. Same goes with cloak. This is to ensure there are reasons to try all factions. You not wanting to try the KDF and wanting integrated cloak on your Fed is reason why we KDF can't accept this, this would be a disaster for our population. Cryptic can't accept it either as they have invested a lot in making a multi faction game and the other factions dying out would cost them money.
Also Terran Empire ships don't cloak in canon because the only episodes they appeared in on TOS and Enterprise they never cloaked. By the time the Mirror Universe appeared in DS9 the Empire had already collapsed. The MU never appeared on screen again, and thats the only thing thats real canon.
granted, it was a suliban cloaking device they were using, but chances are good that the terran empire was in the process of reverse-engineering the design to build their own model
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Two words: "Enterprise Incident." You all need to watch more Star Trek.
I've decided to spare you the drama of looking up the episode. The TOS Enterprise stole a Romulan cloaking device, installed it, used it, and took it back to Starfleet. All this talk of Gene didn't want the Federation to use cloak is moot. The episode was by D.C. Fontana and not some secondary writer. The only reason the Federation didn't use the technology is probably due to the Treaty of Algeron, and there are indications that the Federation uses the technology in the future.
Project Frontier is right that battle cloak is an arbitrary mechanic. It is only really relevant to pvp. In Pve there is rarely a need to cloak other than for alpha strikes. I would like to see it on the raptors, due to their lower survivability. But cruisers don't really need battlecloak. Do they?
Let me put it to you this way, then.
Ship A is identical to Ship B in every meaningful way. Ship B, however, has an additional CHAIR on the bridge. This chair is situationally useful, but mostly is not that useful, but this chair is pretty comfortable. Ship A can use this chair, too, but it must give up 10% of it's functionality to gain the chair. Ship A is advertised as being able to use the chair, as is ship B, but ship B has 100% functionality plus the chair, while ship A must decide between 100% functionality without the chair, or 90% with the chair.
At the end of the day, it's just a stinking chair. But you know what? If Ship B wasn't identical to Ship A in every way except for that frigging chair, then nobody would be upset. This whole problem is Cryptic's fault for releasing a copy of a ship.
The entire reason why I am butthurt is that my $25 buys me less of a ship than another man's $25. I can run an identical build the klingon version, but he can do something I can't.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
I applaud you sir, simple and right to the point, yet elegant in it's own right.
lol
Let me put it this way then:
I have a Joined Trill KDF Science officer. The only proffesion specific ship I have at end game in the ship roster is the Varanus, a ship identical to the Fed. DSSV in every meaningful way. Except that it has -5 power to aux compared to the DSSV. Oh yeah, and the DSSV is free for Feds. while the Varanus costs 20$.
So my 20$ buys me less of a ship than another man's free ship. Yet, I'm not butthurt and whining all around the forum cursing devs., fed players, Gene Roddenberry or the Great Cthulhu. Starting to get the picture now?
Such an elementary way to break it down, yet it's so good I had to actually give this post a moment of applause. This is the basic, most utterly basic way to explain it. There really isn't anything to justify it.
Sadly, the Klinkun Fanboys still won't see it for what it is I'm sure.
Yup applaud ignorance and ignore the post in which I dissasembled his entire point that is flawed. :rolleyes:
You basically turned this into your personal whining thread, unfortunately something that is so typical to the STO forum.
So the day when the Varanus becomes on par with the Intrepid Retrofit, the Nebula Retrofit, or heavens forbid the Vesta line then you maybe could have a leg to stand on with asking to become more like the Klingon faction.
Could you please give counter-points to what others and myself have said and not point the Klingons (They do not like that :P)
PS: Outside of the crack about Starfleet becoming more like the Terran Empire I have not said one think wrong toward both of the factions. I'm asking everyone to do the same.
For $15 Romulan players can get this lovely little gem: http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Molecular_Phase_Inverter
This console can be installed on ANY Warbird. Now is it a 'great' console? No. Is it a very useful console? Yes, very much so as you can use it while under fire. Now Romulans are suppose to be the guru of cloaking tech, so I'm not going to complain about them having perfected a piece of Starfleet technology as its FAR from the only case of this happening in the game.
*cough* http://sto.gamepedia.com/Ability:_Dual_Vector_Separation *cough*
But lets ignore that for now. Lets focus on this little gem of the KDF http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Phase_Shift_Generator.
This lone console is actually all I will use for my argument. To get it you must purchase the Kar'Fi Battle Carrier for 2000 Zen.
Now unlike the horrendously unfair Romulan Phase cloak, which can be bolted on to any Warbird, the KDF Phase Cloak can only be installed onto TWO ships, just two. The Kar'Fi Battle Carrier and the Kar'Fi Fleet Battle Carrier.
For the exact same money, the Federation gets this: http://sto.gamepedia.com/Console_-_Universal_-_Cloaking_Device which can be installed on just one additional ship than the KDF cloaking console.
Now, for the exact same money, we are using a 'bolted on' after market part that 'we' didnt create. If its aftermarket and bolted on, then technically we should also be able to put it on the Exploration Cruiser, all three variants as they did so in TNG. Enterprise D wasn't altered or refit for the Phase Cloak, the Phase Cloak itself was refit in the span of a few hours.
Romulans pay $5 to $10 less for the top of the line cloaking CONSOLE. KDF pay the same or $5 less for a superior CONSOLE. Same price, less value.
Now I have seen the argument that giving these three ships inherit cloaking would mean no reason for people to play factions other than Federation. Next time you go to Earth Space Dock take a nice long hard look at the ships around you.
50% will be Odyssey or Sovereign. 40% will be Romulan *insert name of Warbird* and the remaining 10% will be a mix of everything else.
For all the talk of KDF not having anything equal to the Intrepid or Nebula, I find it rather interesting that no Federation player uses these ships hardly. I honestly cant remember the last time I saw someone else using a Nebula or Intrepid. Must be a PvP thing I guess.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
What about the Vesta? The only non-lockbox ship that is on par with only with timeships as the biggest sci ships around.
I think on average there will be two, maybe three in an instance.
From what I am seeing though Fed players only use Sci ships in PvP to deal with cloakers...but other than that they don't use them. Interesting, KDF players what ships they fight regularly but are used no other place in all of STO outside rare cases, while Fed players would like three ships to have what every KDF ship has.
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
Lol you must be joking. Vesta is junk compared with what its available for kdf, sci related. So its a 3 ships pack, sure, but all 3 ships got near to useless consoles. A drain build on varanus/fleet varanus with an aceton or even better on a kar'fi with aceton and syphon drones outmatch the vesta pack, even at a lower cost.
But its all clear now why kdf starts to post here, they fear a usefull cloak for fed side will balance things in PvP. And especially for defiant. I think I even saw a few admiting that they dont mind if the gal-x gets a build-in cloak. Probably cuz it will still be a crappy underpowered ship. Funny, so on that ship it wont break the "innate cloak for kdf only" :rolleyes:
And I still dont get what federation has unique oposed to the kdf?? All I see around is: build-in cloak is for kdf only, carriers belonged to them aswell, battlecuisers too, the highest options for IP energy type hybrid procs (distruptor) too, best consoles from under T5 ships too, etc.
So tell me what has federation? And dont say that lame escuse "3 times more ships", cuz quantity never beats quality. A pile over another pile of useless ships, with slight higher hull but gimped dmg its not an excuse to make kdf ships better. Killing faster > dying slower. A 3-4k more hull doesnt make up for better skills (most build-in like cloaks or siege mode/javelin), mounted dhcs, higher turn and even availability, wich is a huge advantage (like the fleet tor'kat was available after 2-3 months after S6 release while some fleets still dont have acces to an equivalet ship like the fleet assault cruiser wich its locked under T5, not T2 like fleet tor'kat in respective fleet holding).
Lets look at what the Vesta can do. Get out of well speced grav wells thank to a console (saving EM, AP:O, and other powers that counter grav well for other things). Avoid siphon drone and other close range attacks by making a force bubble around it self. Dump weapon and still have an ok base attack with it aux cannons. Hell itself and others while buffing the damage of its own grav well against with a console. And here is the best one. Counter the KDF's "best" attack, the evil Alpha-Strike by becoming a perfect shield.
All this without touching other ships for consoles or anything. That is kind of awesome.