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Season 8 is a failure.

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  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited November 2013
    Thank you. I am glad someone else is saying this too. Just because you can come up with weird connections between totally random and unrelated events doesn't make it cohesive or thought out. It is like people who see patterns in the noise or those who see conspiracy theories everywhere.

    Frankly, it doesn't make sense for all the empire to attack the Federation. If you study history you will see that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" held quite a bit. The Federation is not the center of the universe and borders everyone else. Those who border the Federation and are hostile to it ... also border other states who may be hostile to them. Those other powers are natural allies of the Feds. So we should have alliances slugging it out across space.

    Anyways, to make this happen we would need some coherent plan to emerge and I don't think it exists. Iconians are just the convenient bad mysterious bad guys behind it all. Btw, in TNG the Iconians are not portrayed as evil or hostile and even Data and Picard come to the conclusion that "history was written by the victors". So another canon source is thrown out the door.
    kirksplat wrote: »
    Sorry Mark, but this kind of reads like random trivia, not something resembling a coherent story. I give you props for trying to sort it out, but it's not really saying anything. I don't see a plot, especially in relation to most of season 8 post Sphere of Influence stuff. Please update me with more information about the reputation cutscenes, since I won't be doing them.

    How does the Dyson sphere and the Voth advance the plot of sphere of influence? If you were pitiching season 8 as a continuation of the overall story, what would that pitch be?
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    macronius wrote: »
    Fits in with the times. This is definitely the ADHD generation and the content is center around that. I agree with you that Rom mission arc was the most cohesive though it too had some major issue like why exactly would the Tal Shiar help the Iconians blow up Romulus.

    Sad to say it is all about the bling now (shiny lock boxes, consoles and holdings) and not substance. Maybe they will throw us a few more bones now that Dorn has recorded some lines.

    I personally feel like it's wrong to fault the writer but right to fault the process. How can any writer work under conditions that ask him or her to keep some kind of coherency going to a game that is constantly shifting gears and characters, thinking of the next new and different (thus unrelated) front, while offering new ships and new aliens of the week?

    LoR was successful because it provided for a beginning and end with a stable context and the opportunity for characters. S8 is so far removed from any of that, it's silly.

    If the writer could develop the characters that experience those new fronts and aliens of the week, it can work. If the writer can only deal with some weird overarching plot that connects what are essentially random and unrelated events... well, it's an exercise in futility.

    The problem is that the story is not central. Rather, some random new system or cool thing is central and the writer has to deal with the constant adhd of system designers.
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  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    macronius wrote: »
    Btw, in TNG the Iconians are not portrayed as evil or hostile and even Data and Picard come to the conclusion that "history was written by the victors". So another canon source is thrown out the door.

    Yeah, I agree. STO is going to base its overarching plot on some mysterious Iconian connection, yet throw out canon when it comes to Iconians. It's like creating a mystery that revolves around something that contradicts the show, in a game about the show.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited November 2013
    kirksplat wrote: »
    I personally feel like it's wrong to fault the writer but right to fault the process. How can any writer work under conditions that ask him or her to keep some kind of coherency going to a game that is constantly shifting gears and characters, thinking of the next new and different (thus unrelated) front, while offering new ships and new aliens of the week?

    LoR was successful because it provided for a beginning and end with a stable context and the opportunity for characters. S8 is so far removed from any of that, it's silly.

    If the writer could develop the characters that experience those new fronts and aliens of the week, it can work. If the writer can only deal with some weird overarching plot that connects what are essentially random and unrelated events... well, it's an exercise in futility.

    The problem is that the story is not central. Rather, some random new system or cool thing is central and the writer has to deal with the constant adhd of system designers.

    Agree 100%. I wish more players were as thoughtful with their analysis. I am glad I am not the only Trekkie around. :)
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kirksplat wrote: »
    Yeah, I agree. STO is going to base its overarching plot on some mysterious Iconian connection, yet throw out canon when it comes to Iconians. It's like creating a mystery that revolves are something that contradicts the show, in a game about the show.
    Well, Picard and Data were engaging in idle speculation as to the nature of the Iconians. They had no PROOF either way.... Therefore we cannot say that it's canon that the Iconians were peaceful.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited November 2013
    Well, Picard and Data were engaging in idle speculation as to the nature of the Iconians. They had no PROOF either way....

    But their approach is the Fed way of doing things. They investigate and reason through the evidence and approach things with an open mind. Here it is more "fire first ... negotiate later" kind of deal. I guess the same thing applies to the new JJ movies also. It is a different era both in movies and real world and those of us who appreciated the more cerebral aspect of Trek miss it.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    macronius wrote: »
    But their approach is the Fed way of doing things. They investigate and reason through the evidence and approach things with an open mind. Here it is more "fire first ... negotiate later" kind of deal. I guess the same thing applies to the new JJ movies also. It is a different era both in movies and real world and those of us who appreciated the more cerebral aspect of Trek miss it.
    They didn't reason through much of anything except how to disable the Iconian technology they found. As for the motives of the Iconians, they were just guessing.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited November 2013
    Agree completely. Btw, awesome idea here. Kind of reminds of the spheres in Enterprise and could see a hostile alien inhabiting the spheres and not being too happy at the uninvited visitors. But they had to do dinos.

    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    This is why people are calling you a apologist and cheerleader.

    In TNG we had no shortage of evil beings, we even had Lore ... yet Cryptic picked the Iconians and instead of doing something interesting with them (as Picard and Data being correct and Iconian technology being used by a 3rd party) they just made it strait, they are Evil.

    Lets take Season 8, we had a Dyson Sphere so instead of exploring and making it like New Romulus area they had to thrown in the Voth, the Voth are not needed and are a sore thumb because the Dyson Sphere could very well have defensive systems, in fact it DOES have them so they could just create a entire new enemy (Dyson Sphere automated defense system) without having to go around picking on some race to make them the target, in fact the Voth here are pretty much only in name and nothing interesting was done with them, as usual.

    Cryptic seems to be just throwing stuff in and fear create anything new, this is being creative bankrupt because they appear to be unable to create anything without a crutch, if they fear players responses because "its not in Trek" I rather have something new that something I know being altered to the point of ridicule because hey are too afraid to CREATE something.

    And granted, its not as if the forums dont given then reasons but when forums complains are ignored and ignored and ignored I cannot see that as being a factor.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    WEll as far as im concerned, in a way, the Voth are the Covenant, the Seekers are Sentinels, and the Sphere is a Halo ring.

    As i am a huge fan of Halo i dont really mind :D
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    This is why people are calling you a apologist and cheerleader.

    In TNG we had no shortage of evil beings, we even had Lore ... yet Cryptic picked the Iconians and instead of doing something interesting with them (as Picard and Data being correct and Iconian technology being used by a 3rd party) they just made it strait, they are Evil.

    Lets take Season 8, we had a Dyson Sphere so instead of exploring and making it like New Romulus area they had to thrown in the Voth, the Voth are not needed and are a sore thumb because the Dyson Sphere could very well have defensive systems, in fact it DOES have them so they could just create a entire new enemy (Dyson Sphere automated defense system) without having to go around picking on some race to make them the target, in fact the Voth here are pretty much only in name and nothing interesting was done with them, as usual.

    Cryptic seems to be just throwing stuff in and fear create anything new, this is being creative bankrupt because they appear to be unable to create anything without a crutch, if they fear players responses because "its not in Trek" I rather have something new that something I know being altered to the point of ridicule because hey are too afraid to CREATE something.

    And granted, its not as if the forums dont given then reasons but when forums complains are ignored and ignored and ignored I cannot see that as being a factor.
    Can't take the truth? Here's the thing.... That's your personal view of what the game should be. Nothing more. As for forum complaints, I and many others have pointed out that people literally complain about everything. EVERYTHING!

    Players have indeed complained every time the Devs make up their own stuff. And here you are complaining when they DON'T. There is no way to please everyone, especially people who seem to be unpleaseable.

    The big differences between the Iconians and most of the other bad guys in TNG is that most of the TNG villains of the week weren't something that could pose a threat to the entire galaxy. The Iconians were a rare exception to this. And the Voth? the Voth were one of the most formidable enemies Voyager encountered. what would you rather fight? the Kazon? The Vidiians perhaps? Or maybe the Malon?
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited November 2013
    I am okay with fighting the Voth ... but not T'Rex with lasers on their frikkin' head (TM). It is totally inconsistent with the IP and scifi settings.

    Think about the tech in Trek and about domesticating T'Rexes and equipping them with lasers. If that doesn't register a 10 on the Richter Scale of Stupid ... then I don't know what else to say to you about this.

    Can't take the truth? Here's the thing.... That's your personal view of what the game should be. Nothing more. As for forum complaints, I and many others have pointed out that people literally complain about everything. EVERYTHING!

    Players have indeed complained every time the Devs make up their own stuff. And here you are complaining when they DON'T. There is no way to please everyone, especially people who seem to be unpleaseable.

    The big differences between the Iconians and most of the other bad guys in TNG is that most of the TNG villains of the week weren't something that could pose a threat to the entire galaxy. The Iconians were a rare exception to this. And the Voth? the Voth were one of the most formidable enemies Voyager encountered. what would you rather fight? the Kazon? The Vidiians perhaps? Or maybe the Malon?
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • knucklesstarknucklesstar Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Well, Picard and Data were engaging in idle speculation as to the nature of the Iconians. They had no PROOF either way.... Therefore we cannot say that it's canon that the Iconians were peaceful.

    No but we can say with certainty that BOTH time Iconian gates were built, they were not in military facilities. One was a lone building in the middle of a forest so that can hardly be considered secure. Besides, I would rather believe Picard and Data, characters written by the creators of Star Trek then some backwater gaming company.
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    macronius wrote: »
    I am okay with fighting the Voth ... but not T'Rex with lasers on their frikkin' head (TM). It is totally inconsistent with the IP and scifi settings.

    Think about the tech in Trek and about domesticating T'Rexes and equipping them with lasers. If that doesn't register a 10 on the Richter Scale of Stupid ... then I don't know what else to say to you about this.

    Bio-Engineered V-Rex's wih LAZORS on their Frikkin' heads.

    That being said, think of them like Living tanks with a Big head and Tiny arms. Now as always when trying to figure out what the dev folk are thinking i use a heavy amount of assumption.

    So they are Bio-Engineered, when engineering anything you have to take control into mind. So that means i assume they enginnered these suckers for that purpose. Also you have to note that the Voth are masters of hiding. Also assuming it has Cybernetic Implants in it, it is programmed not to target Voth. It is a big, tough, angry and mobile Angry artillery piece.

    Essentially this isnt an ill-tempered seabass. This is a Shark with Frikkin laser beams on its head.

    If you got one youd laugh maniaclly as you sent it out on a PvP field......
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    in fact the Voth here are pretty much only in name and nothing interesting was done with them, as usual.

    As these two cutscenes show , that's not true .

    The only problem is that these things will be forgotten by the next season .
    And the Iconians will never invade ! ;)
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    No but we can say with certainty that BOTH time Iconian gates were built, they were not in military facilities. One was a lone building in the middle of a forest so that can hardly be considered secure. Besides, I would rather believe Picard and Data, characters written by the creators of Star Trek then some backwater gaming company.
    ORLY? The first one was a bombed out ruin that was launching probes that either crippled or destroyed starships. Sounds pretty military to me....

    The second.... was a ruin overgrown due to millennia of neglect, we have no way to know what it looked like when the Iconians were using it.

    Even Picard and Data added a caveat that they weren't sure if the Iconians were peaceful or not.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    No but we can say with certainty that BOTH time Iconian gates were built, they were not in military facilities. One was a lone building in the middle of a forest so that can hardly be considered secure. Besides, I would rather believe Picard and Data, characters written by the creators of Star Trek then some backwater gaming company.
    ORLY? The first one was a bombed out ruin that was launching probes that either crippled or destroyed starships. Sounds pretty military to me....

    The second.... was a ruin overgrown due to millennia of neglect, we have no way to know what it looked like when the Iconians were using it.

    Even Picard and Data added a caveat that they weren't sure if the Iconians were peaceful or not.

    One does not simply build military facilities. Its easier to be unnoticed in a small facility in a forest than it is to have a massive well armed complex. Thick doors, booby traps and a few soldiers in a secret facility is far more secure.
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • thestargazethestargaze Member Posts: 1,020 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    macronius wrote: »
    Fits in with the times. This is definitely the ADHD generation and the content is center around that. I agree with you that Rom mission arc was the most cohesive though it too had some major issue like why exactly would the Tal Shiar help the Iconians blow up Romulus.

    Sad to say it is all about the bling now (shiny lock boxes, consoles and holdings) and not substance. Maybe they will throw us a few more bones now that Dorn has recorded some lines.
    I rarely post here, but it just seems to me that the Devs have absolutely no plot outline at all to work off of.

    They jump from one "plot" area to another in a totally disjointed way, with no continuity bridges to make any of it believable. In example I will use the original Romulan story arc...

    And let me state that the Romulan story line, from the beginning, was IMHO, the best thought out, and most absorbing one in the history of this title...

    So, I was totally invested in it, loved the missions, etc... then... Sorry, off to DS9 with you, we are done here.

    Huh?

    It was like having the floor fall out from under you. And every new season since has been the same way. This isn't Star Trek, it's Short Attention Span Theatre, with pew pew guns.

    There is enough fodder in any of the original story lines, be it Fed vs. Klingons, the Romulans, the whole DS9 can of worms, that you could pick ONE of them and develop it out for years. But no, they have to skip all over the place, yanking us around with them on their A.D.D. romp through the universe.

    It's sad really.

    I so agree with this.

    There are several stories going on and its all confusing. The old ones doesn't feel like they are completed.

    I loved the Dominion stories.. but nothing has been done here since ages ago. Which I feel is a pitty. I loved to see more of the Dominion uprise etc.

    What happened to the Undine... which was a very interesting species and enemy.

    What happened to the klingon war? Was there a mission where the Klingon and Federation decided to come together and become peaceful? If so I missed it.

    Even the Voth people.. this is why I feel they needed to tell the story in missions (series) rather than a battle zones /reputation system. Its just fall flat.

    I can tell you that I spend most of my time playing through the missions. I do Defera.. which is fun. I do some STF here and there and I visit the New Romulan map. I visit Nimbus, which I loved. I wish they had done something like Nimbus with the Voth story.

    But even so.., at the moment its all messy. They can have different stories going on but they need to place it in such way its logical and its a journey your character follow.

    Maybe they need to stop people from quickly leveling and have them level up via the storylines. And the storylines should not end at level 50. Having hidden stories in reputation system or in combat zones is not a brilliant idea. Some people don't like the space battle zone.
  • jetwtfjetwtf Member Posts: 1,207
    edited November 2013

    Essentially this isnt an ill-tempered seabass. This is a Shark with Frikkin laser beams on its head.

    A Large Mouth Bass is 10x more agressive than a shark. I would say that instead of a shark in that analogy.
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  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    jetwtf wrote: »
    A Large Mouth Bass is 10x more agressive than a shark. I would say that instead of a shark in that analogy.

    You absolutely missed the Austin Powers reference.....
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I and many others have pointed out that people literally complain about everything. EVERYTHING!

    STO might have jumped the dinosaur with Season 8.

    But the STO forums jumped the dinosaur when they were legitimately complaining that the servers weren't crashing multiple times on launch, and therefore Season 8 sucked.

    I mean the gall you have to have to complain that because Cryptic's multiple efforts to address server load over a period of months (which most of us remember was horrendous with constant downtimes and emergency maintenance, and STILL have disconnects and SNRs after the fact)... that when it isn't broken, they're actually disappointed.

    Don't get me wrong, people have connection issues with Season 8 as they've clearly shown on the forums. All is not well when it comes to connectivity, obviously.

    But the fact there isn't constant disconnects, login queues, SNRs... this is cause for complaint. People are actually complaining that STO isn't broken.

    And I have to suspend my disbelief for that more than I do with fictional computer-generated dinosaurs with lasers attached to their heads.
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  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    iconians wrote: »
    STO might have jumped the dinosaur with Season 8.

    But the STO forums jumped the dinosaur when they were legitimately complaining that the servers weren't crashing multiple times on launch, and therefore Season 8 sucked.

    I mean the gall you have to have to complain that because Cryptic's multiple efforts to address server load over a period of months (which most of us remember was horrendous with constant downtimes and emergency maintenance, and STILL have disconnects and SNRs after the fact)... that when it isn't broken, they're actually disappointed.

    Don't get me wrong, people have connection issues with Season 8 as they've clearly shown on the forums. All is not well when it comes to connectivity, obviously.

    But the fact there isn't constant disconnects, login queues, SNRs... this is cause for complaint. People are actually complaining that STO isn't broken.

    And I have to suspend my disbelief for that more than I do with fictional computer-generated dinosaurs with lasers attached to their heads.

    But you gotta admit, pimp canin' a V-Rex is miiiiiiiiggggghhhhhhtyyyyyyy satisfyin':cool:
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • nagrom7nagrom7 Member Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    But you gotta admit, pimp canin' a V-Rex is miiiiiiiiggggghhhhhhtyyyyyyy satisfyin':cool:

    Who else can say they've fly kicked a dinosaur to death?

    Looks good on a resume.
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  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    nagrom7 wrote: »
    Who else can say they've fly kicked a dinosaur to death?

    Looks good on a resume.

    See this man is a positive thinker!
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
    I am Il Shadow and i approve these Shennanigans!
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • captainjgeecaptainjgee Member Posts: 144 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Tried Season 8 on Tribble didn't like but thought have a go on Holodeck over the weekend. Still hated the Dyson sphere. Ground consisted of just do X then run to next area, do Y then run to next area and repeat, rush rush rush. Those blasted mortars forced me to run in circle which then made me dizzle. In the end I replace my away team with 2 engineers with shield and medical generators and mine barrier, now I could remain in one place with out getting killed. Still hate the T-rex. The Space zone was just so confusing, missions would pop and then I had to decide which mission I would do in case they are on a timer. The duty officer mission are hard to find. The only playable mission is The Breach, 70 marks for 15 to 20 mins is a no-brainer.

    Season 8 also introduced a lot of bugs. The ones that affect me are the Orellius Dailies and the Defense Contract Daily. Also a fairly nice Exploit has appeared, shame I don't need it now.

    I think I will give most of Season 8 a miss I will just do Orellius and Eta Eridani Dailies, the Mirror Universe Incursion and The Breach every thing else is just a waste of time. :(
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    What happened to the Undine... which was a very interesting species and enemy.
    In the final story mission involving the Undine, the Undine basically apologize and go home.....
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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  • themariethemarie Member Posts: 1,055 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Gotta admit, after playing the new season for a week now... my opinion is the same.

    This season is BORING.

    With the exception of the ground mission it's basically NR broken into sections. Run here, do this. Same repeatable missions with the same ships and characters in space. Click the same prompts for the same results every day.

    Epic scale grind-map with very impressive graphics... but after a week (a ******n WEEK) I've done everything to death.

    So.. when's season 9 coming out?
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    themarie wrote: »
    Gotta admit, after playing the new season for a week now... my opinion is the same.

    This season is BORING.

    With the exception of the ground mission it's basically NR broken into sections. Run here, do this. Same repeatable missions with the same ships and characters in space. Click the same prompts for the same results every day.

    Epic scale grind-map with very impressive graphics... but after a week (a ******n WEEK) I've done everything to death.

    So.. when's season 9 coming out?
    Season 8 isn't done yet, only part of the Dyson warzone has been released. :P
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • enterprise1701axenterprise1701ax Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    themarie wrote: »
    Gotta admit, after playing the new season for a week now... my opinion is the same.

    This season is BORING.

    You think it's boring after playing it for a week? Try not being able to play it for a week! A lot of STO players can't log-in, for 7 days now, thanks to a game launcher bug that crashes us to desktop every time, no fix in sight. But thanks for the heads-up. It actually helps to know we're not missing anything exciting. At this point, I'd settle for mailbox access while chatting with Morn, if that's all I could do.
  • tarrennistarrennis Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Season 8 is a failure considering a large segment of players can't access it.
  • nagrom7nagrom7 Member Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    tarrennis wrote: »
    Season 8 is a failure considering a large segment of players can't access it.

    So following the logic of this thread then, it's a success?:confused:

    Generally they measure the success of a season by how badly the servers crash, the worse they are, the more people are logging on.
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