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Season 8 is a failure.

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  • wolfpacknzwolfpacknz Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    hasukurobi wrote: »
    Also the sphere looks wrong as many have pointed out as a real Dyson's sphere would be SO HUGE that you could NEVER see the curvature from the inside nor the other side of the sphere.

    Actually if you have a look at the curvature since you mentioned it, it actually curves the wrong way. The curvature is that of an external living planet like earth, inside a sphere the curvature would go the opposite way. So not only did they get seeing the curvature wrong, they got the direction of the curvature wrong as well
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  • kortaagkortaag Member Posts: 525
    edited November 2013
    wolfpacknz wrote: »
    Actually if you have a look at the curvature since you mentioned it, it actually curves the wrong way. The curvature is that of an external living planet like earth, inside a sphere the curvature would go the opposite way. So not only did they get seeing the curvature wrong, they got the direction of the curvature wrong as well

    Ah yes.. If you fly up to the tip top of the gargantuan map and have a look around. There are 3 primary reasons why the ambient portrayal appears incorrect.

    1) The floor structures show continuity in form and only disappear into the surrounding band they've created to give the illusion of a diluted horizon. This continuity would be better broken if the distance it traveled were swallowed in a larger band that actually bent the structures upward into a minimizing margin. That would help create the proper illusion of a concave inner circumference.

    2) If you're still way up there, look almost all the way up. The land mass/water way mapping they're using clearly bends toward the player before it disappears into the star's vicinity. The eye can tell that it's bending inward too early to give off the proper effect. This can be fixed with cascading bands that give subtle yet defined areas of land/water into bleeding indistinguishable colors less than halfway skyward.

    3) Where's the weather? Ultimately there's a lot of water out there and no clouds. One of the easiest ways to pull off a smoke and mirror trick is to have smoke.


    So yeah you're spot-on when it comes to this complaint. They simply just didn't do a good job. It's all rushed all over the place.
    May good management be with you.
  • red01999red01999 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    The real problem with the more modern trek interpretation of the prime directive is that it requires people stop being people. You can only truly follow it to the letter if you were an heartless machine... and even data spat on the prime directive now and again!

    As I recall, it was much easier for Picard to follow the Prime Directive when he was not the one doing the actual act.

    The episode where Data makes contact with a little kid on a dying world comes to mind. He orders Data to cut her off and let her die. Only when he hears the pleas does he tell Data not to do it. And again with the Mintakans (sp?), when he left it to someone else to essentially let a native die because the Federation researchers screwed up. Considering that could be argued as accessory to manslaughter at the very least that was a particularly bad incident.

    Kind of disgusting, really. That said, I like Picard's character, but the way the Prime Directive tends to be handled can be very heavy-handed and unsavory. I pretty much blame the script writers and producers for that one, since it seems fairly out-of-character for most of the otherwise-heroic Starfleet officers.
  • kortaagkortaag Member Posts: 525
    edited November 2013
    Well one way to send the message that we disapprove is not to spend $ on season 8 at all. Not a penny has come out of my wallet and will stay that way all year until season 9 when they're due for evaluation lol
    May good management be with you.
  • azurianstarazurianstar Member Posts: 6,985 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kortaag wrote: »
    Well one way to send the message that we disapprove is not to spend $ on season 8 at all. Not a penny has come out of my wallet and will stay that way all year until season 9 when they're due for evaluation lol

    Yep, "vote with your wallet". That's why I'm not buying into this latest Zen Promo. Because I refuse to give money to PW when it's about to force ARC down our throats and how there is more grind with no help for small fleets.

    This is what we feared when PW took over 2 years ago, and I for one am not supporting the Eastern Style of gameplay anymore.
  • abfabfleetabfabfleet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    Yep, "vote with your wallet". That's why I'm not buying into this latest Zen Promo. Because I refuse to give money to PW when it's about to force ARC down our throats and how there is more grind with no help for small fleets.

    This is what we feared when PW took over 2 years ago, and I for one am not supporting the Eastern Style of gameplay anymore.

    Agreed, done with my wallet opening, until they fix everything else that has been broken, instead of putting shiny new things in, I'll continue to take the free stuff.
  • doffingcomradedoffingcomrade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    wolfpacknz wrote: »
    Actually if you have a look at the curvature since you mentioned it, it actually curves the wrong way. The curvature is that of an external living planet like earth, inside a sphere the curvature would go the opposite way. So not only did they get seeing the curvature wrong, they got the direction of the curvature wrong as well
    For all we know, the ground only appears to curve down because we're actually fighting over a mountain the size of a planet...a terrain feature which wouldn't even qualify as a blip on the larger surface.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    jjprize wrote: »
    Wing commander(series), Freelancer. Keep in mind, I'm talking about things I like, which is opinion based. Whether you like them or not is irrelevant to whether I do. And the fact that I do is the track record I am talking about.
    I've actually never played them. I do like fiction based on Wing Commander though.
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  • kortaagkortaag Member Posts: 525
    edited November 2013
    One of the main reasons why I'm not spending any cash anymore on this game is that they claimed they were all about feedback. So I started a thread protesting some minor parts of season 8. Their response was to shut the thread down due to the popular response and link it to a thread that was completely opposite the point in mind. It was shady and low brow and only communicated that our feedback doesn't matter as much as the pig headed endeavors of 1 lead dev.

    So their coffers will have to go on without my support for sure. I think the old fashioned capitalist approach may get their attention though.
    May good management be with you.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kortaag wrote: »
    One of the main reasons why I'm not spending any cash anymore on this game is that they claimed they were all about feedback. So I started a thread protesting some minor parts of season 8. Their response was to shut the thread down due to the popular response and link it to a thread that was completely opposite the point in mind. It was shady and low brow and only communicated that our feedback doesn't matter as much as the pig headed endeavors of 1 lead dev.

    So their coffers will have to go on without my support for sure. I think the old fashioned capitalist approach may get their attention though.
    *laughs maniacally*

    Er... um... It's very common for them to merge threads that are discussing the same topic. It doesn't make any difference what POV the thread starter had, since the people reading the thread are the same.
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  • kortaagkortaag Member Posts: 525
    edited November 2013
    *laughs maniacally*

    Er... um... It's very common for them to merge threads that are discussing the same topic. It doesn't make any difference what POV the thread starter had, since the people reading the thread are the same.

    Aren't you the guy always apologizing for cryptic?
    May good management be with you.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kortaag wrote: »
    Aren't you the guy always apologizing for cryptic?
    No. I simply state the truth.

    It's standard forum policy to cleanup the forum by merging redundant threads. It doesn't matter why you made "your own" thread. The mods don't care. If it's discussing the same topic as an extant thread, *smoosh* in it goes.
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  • ominoushomicideominoushomicide Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    how about the fact its almost been a week and these losers haven't fix this god damn game. which means i'm missing out on my free lobi and i would bet they dont give me anything for all this bs they have caused me . other sites will give things out when they mess up. shoot i even played a few that they give out items just for bringing the server down. but not this site. they just tell u tuff s@%$ and move on. its been fun playing this but i think its about time i hang it up. this is freaking ridiculous. my other comp that cant play the freaking game can play it and get on but can't get far. but not my comp that can play skyrim on max.
  • skyranger1414skyranger1414 Member Posts: 1,785 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    red01999 wrote: »
    As I recall, it was much easier for Picard to follow the Prime Directive when he was not the one doing the actual act.

    The episode where Data makes contact with a little kid on a dying world comes to mind. He orders Data to cut her off and let her die. Only when he hears the pleas does he tell Data not to do it. And again with the Mintakans (sp?), when he left it to someone else to essentially let a native die because the Federation researchers screwed up. Considering that could be argued as accessory to manslaughter at the very least that was a particularly bad incident.

    Kind of disgusting, really. That said, I like Picard's character, but the way the Prime Directive tends to be handled can be very heavy-handed and unsavory. I pretty much blame the script writers and producers for that one, since it seems fairly out-of-character for most of the otherwise-heroic Starfleet officers.

    Yeah, the Prime Directive is clearly meant to protect cultures from exploitation and being unduly influenced. Unfortunately writers often try to twist it into something draconian and absolute. Better to commit genocide because the alternative might result in something worse? How screwed IS a society that comes up with that? And how screwed up is a species that actually follows through with it?

    Honestly, the modern interpretation of the Prime Directive is just a needless drama generator, meant to create artificial conflict when none would occur. Its why those episodes ALWAYS come off so heavy handed and leave a viewer thinking.... wait, I thought I was suppoossed to be rooting for the good guys, no?

    Now, if one takes the position that its cannon since it was written into the shows (regardless of how bad it was); it, more than anything the Section 31 detractors could ever come up with, smears the supposedly utopian federation into something truly ugly.
  • abfabfleetabfabfleet Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    how about the fact its almost been a week and these losers haven't fix this god damn game. which means i'm missing out on my free lobi and i would bet they dont give me anything for all this bs they have caused me . other sites will give things out when they mess up. shoot i even played a few that they give out items just for bringing the server down. but not this site. they just tell u tuff s@%$ and move on. its been fun playing this but i think its about time i hang it up. this is freaking ridiculous. my other comp that cant play the freaking game can play it and get on but can't get far. but not my comp that can play skyrim on max.

    Oye. My Condolences. :(
  • kortaagkortaag Member Posts: 525
    edited November 2013
    No. I simply state the truth.

    It's standard forum policy to cleanup the forum by merging redundant threads. It doesn't matter why you made "your own" thread. The mods don't care. If it's discussing the same topic as an extant thread, *smoosh* in it goes.

    Well you sound like an apologist to me. In fact I never see you being critical at all. Do you even have a critical bone in your body? You're just full of assumptions rather than the "truth" you speak of. For your info, that thread was unlike any other topic. It was a request of like minded players protesting the thin-whim imagination of one overzealous developer who wanted to pervert the only example we had of the voth. It was tied into a pro-dino thread and all the responses were deleted. It wasn't even merged.

    So you're wrong, "truth" teller. It was a measure one of the mods took to squash dissent on the matter and nothing else. Can you handle being wrong?
    May good management be with you.
  • kortaagkortaag Member Posts: 525
    edited November 2013
    Yeah, the Prime Directive is clearly meant to protect cultures from exploitation and being unduly influenced. Unfortunately writers often try to twist it into something draconian and absolute. Better to commit genocide because the alternative might result in something worse? How screwed IS a society that comes up with that? And how screwed up is a species that actually follows through with it?

    Honestly, the modern interpretation of the Prime Directive is just a needless drama generator, meant to create artificial conflict when none would occur. Its why those episodes ALWAYS come off so heavy handed and leave a viewer thinking.... wait, I thought I was suppoossed to be rooting for the good guys, no?

    Now, if one takes the position that its cannon since it was written into the shows (regardless of how bad it was); it, more than anything the Section 31 detractors could ever come up with, smears the supposedly utopian federation into something truly ugly.

    You've got a point here. Geko's slay-em-all approach is just dousing the star trek feel into this artificial pew pew kind of story line. It's as though diplomacy was completely ignored here. Especially for a species that let voyager go completely. You'd think they'd be more akin to trying diplomacy with them. But that's acknowledging that the voth would have even been involved with this conflict to begin with. Why would a superior technologically advanced society of scientists want with outdated genetics from an earth they never knew about and turn them into war beasts? I mean really? And why would they spend so much time foot soldiering the sphere when they clearly could outwit and overtake anything they wanted with tech alone.


    Geko should be stepped down for this.
    May good management be with you.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kortaag wrote: »
    Well you sound like an apologist to me. In fact I never see you being critical at all. Do you even have a critical bone in your body? You're just full of assumptions rather than the "truth" you speak of. For your info, that thread was unlike any other topic. It was a request of like minded players protesting the thin-whim imagination of one overzealous developer who wanted to pervert the only example we had of the voth. It was tied into a pro-dino thread and all the responses were deleted. It wasn't even merged.

    So you're wrong, "truth" teller. It was a measure one of the mods took to squash dissent on the matter and nothing else. Can you handle being wrong?
    *laughs hysterically*

    Um, yeah... your thread was unique... like a snowflake.... all of them.... But Unique does not make it special. And petitions are against forum rules....
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  • nagrom7nagrom7 Member Posts: 995 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    kortaag wrote: »
    Well you sound like an apologist to me. In fact I never see you being critical at all. Do you even have a critical bone in your body? You're just full of assumptions rather than the "truth" you speak of. For your info, that thread was unlike any other topic. It was a request of like minded players protesting the thin-whim imagination of one overzealous developer who wanted to pervert the only example we had of the voth. It was tied into a pro-dino thread and all the responses were deleted. It wasn't even merged.

    So you're wrong, "truth" teller. It was a measure one of the mods took to squash dissent on the matter and nothing else. Can you handle being wrong?

    There's that word that is thrown around the forums far too often, 'Apologist'. You people make it sound like Cryptic is an evil empire and that siding with them, or appearing to, with anything makes you just as evil. They aren't. They are a company just like the rest of them. They have their good and bad perks, but I know that there are more deserving companies of the 'evil empire' title than cryptic.
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    nagrom7 wrote: »
    There's that word that is thrown around the forums far too often, 'Apologist'. You people make it sound like Cryptic is an evil empire and that siding with them, or appearing to, with anything makes you just as evil. They aren't. They are a company just like the rest of them. They have their good and bad perks, but I know that there are more deserving companies of the 'evil empire' title than cryptic.

    It's almost as if there's some kind of political or sports team mentality where it's either "all or nothing". You're either 100% for Cryptic (and an apologist) or you're 100% against Cryptic (and a hater).

    Once you hate something or someone, everything they do becomes offensive. "Look at that idiot eating crackers like she owns the place."

    It's solid black-and-white, with no gray areas in between. There's no such thing as being "objective" because saying anything that contradicts the angry mob makes you part of the opposing side of an issue. You can't support some things Cryptic does and criticise some things they do. You either have to hate everything they do or you're a Cryptic fanboy or a Cryptic apologist.

    Even when approached with explicit evidence to support your arguments and debunk others, you're waved off as a Cryptic shill.

    Why? Because putting any serious thought into being objective takes work and effort. It's a small mind that has an "all or nothing" mentality. To actually divide the things you like and the things you don't like and come to the conclusion that they do some things good and some things bad ends up ruining a righteous crusade narrative to destroy everything they stand for.

    Because you realize that maybe they aren't evil. Maybe they're just a for-profit company made up of human beings who work 40 hours a week like the rest of us, play games like the rest of us, have families like the rest of us. And yes, even make mistakes like the rest of us.

    It takes too much work to be objective. It's intellectually easier to just say "Cryptic bad." because it takes very little effort to paint the entire company in a broad stroke and everything they do is a crime against humanity and/or Star Trek.
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  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited November 2013
    Let me redirect this back to Season 8. LoR, despite its many serious flaws, was welcomed by the general audience for its story content. However, Season 7 was criticized pretty heavily for being little more than another grind wheel for the STO fans ... myself included. Season 8 is very much like that and unlike Season 7 doesn't even bother to try to maintain continuity.

    Most people are between the extremes of "hate" and "love" on Season 8. In general they tilt toward the dislike part of the spectrum based on feedback here.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • knucklesstarknucklesstar Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    macronius wrote: »
    Let me redirect this back to Season 8. LoR, despite its many serious flaws, was welcomed by the general audience for its story content. However, Season 7 was criticized pretty heavily for being little more than another grind wheel for the STO fans ... myself included. Season 8 is very much like that and unlike Season 7 doesn't even bother to try to maintain continuity.

    Most people are between the extremes of "hate" and "love" on Season 8. In general they tilt toward the dislike part of the spectrum based on feedback here.

    You will never get the drones to listen, they'll tell themselves they are happy in the endless grind forever.
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  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    unikon wrote: »
    The one issue everyone should be looking at for fault is the fact the conflict isn't really surrounded by the Sphere itself, Iconians or Voth, but the stretch to Omega Particles. Now THAT is completely out of left field. Starfleet would have never launched such a wide scale conflict over the detection of Omega Particles on a VERY distant location. They would have destroyed known gates to prevent access or sent a small team to covertly deal with the issue.
    Apparently they tried the covert approach and failed. It's in the briefing that Kaol gives you during the Circles mission....

    When the covert approach failed, they had to resort to what we're currently doing.....

    And the idea of destroying the gate.... That's what the Andorian guy wanted to do, but the Romulans claim it as their territory, and want to keep it intact, and the KDF is willing to support the Romulans(why is a good question, but possibly just to antagonize the Feds).
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  • kirksplatkirksplat Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I think you guys may be trying too hard to see something coherent and plausible. From what I've read so far, I don't see much of a coherent story based on little hints about a hidden story. Please keep sharing, because it's slowly peaking my interest. But I would like a coherent explanation for how the following stuff is connected with a coherent plot. Can you please summarize:

    Dinos with lasers, the clicker body snatchers, Iconians, Dyson sphere, and let's not forget those pesky Undine.

    I'm not trying to diss the nice STO writer, but I feel like her job must be incredibly difficult when she probably gets instructions like: "We're going to make a Dyson sphere and dinos with lasers... Oh and somehow work in something neat about this new shiny that we're selling. Oh, and here is a new set of buckets and buckets surrounding a new fleet holding. Connect the story to the buckets as well."

    Season 8 is the result of that: A great story-rich FE and a bunch of "adventure zone" stuff and new buckets that leaves everyone grasping at clues to make some weird connections.
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  • macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited November 2013
    Perfect! Nothing more than this needs to be said.
    kirksplat wrote: »
    I think you guys may be trying too hard to see something coherent and plausible. From what I've read so far, I don't see much of a coherent story based on little hints about a hidden story. Please keep sharing, because it's slowly peaking my interest. But I would like a coherent explanation for how the following stuff is connected with a coherent plot. Can you please summarize:

    Dinos with lasers, the clicker body snatchers, Iconians, Dyson sphere, and let's not forget those pesky Undine.

    I'm not trying to diss the nice STO writer, but I feel like her job must be incredibly difficult when she probably gets instructions like: "We're going to make a Dyson sphere and dinos with lasers... Oh and somehow work in something neat about this new shiny that we're selling. Oh, and here is a new set of buckets and buckets surrounding a new fleet holding. Connect the story to the buckets as well."

    Season 8 is the result of that: A great story-rich FE and a bunch of "adventure zone" stuff and new buckets that leaves everyone grasping at clues to make some weird connections.
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
  • sernonserculionsernonserculion Member Posts: 749 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    It is a shame the action in (Dyson) space feels less compelling and ultimately rewarding, compared to the ground activities. Unless I have missed something essential. Just grabbing that daily token in the FedEx zone, and landing the ship for the rest of the time there. The gound (or whatever it is technically labeled), now that is the place where it all seems to roll in, like you're raiding the Dinosaur treasury. :P

    ---
  • capnshadow27capnshadow27 Member Posts: 1,731 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I see it this way, the "battlezone story" is what people complained about, they where tired of having the story handed to them it wasnt "immersive" enough, now that you have to learn the story on your own your mad about that.

    There is literally no pleasing you people. Season 8 and the Battlezones are great and exactly what people asked for.

    The rep is easier, marks and dil flow in like nobodies business. It is after all a game, and so it plays by rules the DEVs make, and all your complaining about how they do their jobs, makes them less enthusiastic to do it.

    So suck it up and be glad.
    Inertia just means you can do Powerslides in you carrier!
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  • iconiansiconians Member Posts: 6,987 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I see it this way, the "battlezone story" is what people complained about, they where tired of having the story handed to them it wasnt "immersive" enough, now that you have to learn the story on your own your mad about that.

    There is literally no pleasing you people. Season 8 and the Battlezones are great and exactly what people asked for.

    The rep is easier, marks and dil flow in like nobodies business. It is after all a game, and so it plays by rules the DEVs make, and all your complaining about how they do their jobs, makes them less enthusiastic to do it.

    So suck it up and be glad.

    You're a Cryptic apologist for introducing facts and reality into this.
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