I remember all day raids in other MMOs... the kind that after 5 hours you fail cause one guy on your team does something stupid. As frustrating as that level of difficulty can be somewhere in between would sure be nice.
Yes, somewhere in the middle - lol - don't want the 2-3 hours in, somebody gets d/c'd or experiences some latency at a critical moment and it was all wasted, meh.
A small handful of there missions are in fact still somewhat fun, really though not hard content. Any of it.
The most fun I've had in PvE was a bugged Fleet Defense on one of my KDF guys. Each spawn was 2-3x the normal number it was supposed to be. While folks were grumbling, I was having a blast - sure, I was getting blasted - but I was having a blast too. It was uber phaser proc spam dropping shields with chained torp spreads flying all over the place.
Heck, I even had fun with the initial Elachi - posting that I hoped that Cryptic would bring that kind of AI/teamwork/ability use from the Elachi in space to other NPCs...and kick it up a notch for the Elite stuff. Yeah, I never imagined the outcry that would come from folks about it being "too hard" and thus leading to Cryptic running multiple nerf trains on the Elachi...meh.
Meh, I've asked that Cryptic restructure their difficulty levels to accommodate all types of players...too many of those Saturday Afternoon (soon to be Saturday Morning as STO competes for cartoon time) hate the idea. They want to feel uber doing Elite when it's barely a Normal level.
Instead of folks sweating speed runs or minimalist runs, they might actually sweat the actual content...
I think that type of system would be no different then what we have though.
Cryptic would just follow there formula. 1 enemy 2 enemy 3 enemy Double hit points ect ect.
Nightmare would just be 6x as many lowbie NPCs with double hit points ... and 2 cubes instead of 1. lol
What I loved about the old MMOs ... was some of the Content itself just didn't have an easy mode.
There where raids you would only go on with friends that you liked... hopefuly didn't suck... and if they did well you had better like them enough to not care. lol
Having scalable content is the main issue as I see it... how do you dumb down a hard mode game mechanic. Think of the old STFs before they got the easy mode over haul. I didn't run them that often because well Cryptic are not great raid designers. Still I remember doing those stupid ground STFs with fleet mates when we where board. It was a blast (doing co op pve for an hour or two with friends that is) even if the level design wasn't that hard... and the closest they got to old school MMO raid team work was jumping around waiting to hide from a borg queen.
Being able to knock ALL the stfs out in under 10 min is nice... but ya would be nice to have some kind of epic feeling hour long match that felt like you just took part in a real trek battle... and not one cut for TV.
I think that type of system would be no different then what we have though.
Heh, Elite and Nightmare (in my vision) wouldn't follow the meatier mob with the beefier club scaling that the others would...
...they'd be using abilities, working together, have access to reputation passives, various procs, etc, etc, etc.
The AI couldn't offer the "random" stuff that one might come across in PvP, but as long as it wasn't scripted so folks knew that at 3 minutes mob x was going to do whatever (can't stand scripted content)...and attempted to use abilities as thresholds were met - had any semblance of situational awareness...
Think about it - we've got the Nimbus Pirates, right? That "friendly" AI was along the lines of what the Elachi were doing - working together. So we know that Cryptic's got it - they just can't put it in the game because too many folks would complain.
They could kick it up a notch, they tried, we lost hundreds of thousands of posters as they drowned in all the tears...
Being able to knock ALL the stfs out in under 10 min is nice... but ya would be nice to have some kind of epic feeling hour long match that felt like you just took part in a real trek battle... and not one cut for TV.
Which is another sort of thing they can do...we can do the CCN or CCE to get the shard for the event. Folks that just want to zip through things could do the zippier things - folks that want more, could do more...and in doing more, get better rewards.
Course, that's where all the entitlement players come in demanding they get the same rewards because they were able to log in to the game...and that's enough effort that they should get everything!
edit: Heh, the funny thing about this particular post...is it may come off as having a bit of ego when I went off on ego just recently. The first thing I'll generally tell anybody is that I suck at both PvE and PvP. On my best days, I'm lucky to approach average...on my best days. So it's not an ego thing - it's an opinion thing. I'm very opinionated. I want the game to grow. Providing things for those folks that on their worst day, they're better than me on my best day would help that - providing things for those folks that on their best day are worse than me, would help that. I want the game to grow, I'm selfish that way.
i recall doing a few stfs with some opvpers in monster escorts, it was insane how fast we blew through them. think we all had 4 cannon builds. the cure run stuck out most, we poped all the cubes before the second wave of spawns could launch from any of them. i still think 4 DHC builds with fluid targeting and almost no down time between pew will still get through stfs quickest. beams are just easy+quick.
edit
just did a bit of quick math, and i was semi surprised. i looked up the dps on sto wiki for a white mkX of a turret, DHC and beam arrays, and came up with these results
8 beam arrays= 1280DPS
4DHC+3 turrets=1288DPS
isnt that WAY to close together? so running DCs is basically as effective as just running beam arrays basic DPS wise. DHCs only advantage is their front loaded damage, not their DPS. but its easier to buff their single target damage the highest.
the first thing that poped into my head is good god single cannons are horribly underpowered compared to these 2 setups. they arent balanced keeping in mind that they have to be parred with turrets. 1 single and 1 turrets has less DPS then 2 beam arrays
4 single cannons+4 turrets=1248
if only i could get a full set of heavy single cannons, that would help effectiveness at least. but it would reduce the effectiveness of what works best with singles, DEM and glider. singles need a raw DPS buff, or buff turrets lol
if they are beam boats, theres a good chance ive already done what you guys are figuring out now :P im almost never in my hottest creations, because they cant hold up without back up, the beam boats in my thread are pug sensible instead. ive never had a chance to run them in a beam made.
Ive found things like vet ships and other destroyers making better beam boats then cruisers lately, but theres going to be quite a shake up when all cruisers get the command auras though. ive seen down right impossible damage out of avenger beam boats
You assume too much I think.
Good chance you already built it? Not likely.
The guys from DPS 11K crew were the first guys in a long long time that make me go "What the F*** hit me?" Some of these guys can maintain 40k upwards DPS. You saying you can do that? Even translating 1/4 of that into the PvP arena is massive yet these guys did it.
To date, i only know 1 person able to pull 14K DPS in a premade match. Again this was thanks to the "PVE Heroe" tips.
Somehow, i doubt you've "already done" what these guys have done.
A ship that can kill 3 people out of the 5 opponents in seconds even before the rest of the team mates have arrived to support the kills? I don't think you've seen a FAW boat do that where each beam hit is almost like a BO1 in itself.
Again, i can / get 1 of these "PVE Heroe" guys to give you a 1 v 1 demo to see if you really have done it.
"if they are beam boats, theres a good chance ive already done what you guys are figuring out now :P"
Do you realise you come off as very dismissive of those guys??
Yeah dont diss some of those PvE guys. Ive seen what those ships can do in Infected/Cure/etc. They are no joke. AOE BFAW DEM spam is not a funny thing, especially when you consider how paper thin a players hull is compared to a borg cube.
I actually wasnt surprised when I heard they came in and spanked some of the PvP guys a couple weeks back.
Something interesting I figured out on my own is that a borg probe in Khitomer has more hull than any player ship. Now imagine a BFAW buzzsaw tearing through those. (happy easy peasy stuff right?)
Now imagine the same buzzsaw on you, especially when the debuff spam hits your precious resistances. (yes I know there are counters, but from what it sounded like the raw damage output took people completely off guard)
Best not have your tactical team on CD from a keybind when that APB hits you...
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Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
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Um...you do realize that being able to do them as fast as you can, does mean that it is a joke. Can everybody do it that fast? Course not. Heck, a large portion of the casual community out there can't even complete the optionals when geared to the teeth.
For PvE not to be a joke, it wouldn't be about how fast a part of the playerbase is able to run them - it would be about a part of the playerbase actually able to do them at all.
You've got speed runs, you've got minimalist runs...all those do is show how massively overgeared players are compared to the content. The content and the gear level is so that the most casual of player can go in and have a blast...have that sense of accomplishment. Cryptic's said that.
All in all, it allows the playerbase to grow - means more revenue - so it can't be an entirely horrible thing.
Some folks don't care about how fast they can do something and some folks don't want to bother trying to minimalize their builds to create a challenge...they want to be geared to the teeth and have a chance at failure.
Thinking that you made that much of a difference is sheer ego. Folks were running beams before Naz did his thread. Not everybody shares info. Info gets shared. People imitate.
People mentioned what was possible with beams long before naz's thread. Nobody wanted to listen. Not everybody's going to be listened to in the same manner, because they're not naz or some other such member of the PvP hierarchy.
But it wasn't new information...it was just new from a certain source - one more respected than others.
And calling PvE a joke is not the same as calling PvE folks a joke...only somebody with a precariously inflated ego might take it that way.
Which folks had talked about before the naz thread and all the various threads recently...
Which is absolutely nothing new. What's new is all the powercreep that's taken place in the game and made tactics that were so-so or okay...that much better. So it's nothing new, and trying to take credit for it is just sad...
Having to adapt to the latest FotM thing that Cryptic has dropped out...is not good for the game. Honestly, it's not...having to face a wide breadth of possible things - having a large variety of things one could do that are equally effective in potential (sometimes you'll have it right, sometimes you won't - because of what you may or may not face)...that would be good for the game and would actually lead to folks improving their skills. Going from one FotM thing to the next...well...meh.
Yep, because some folks with precarious egos find fun in causing such things...
...others have no real ego and want the game to grow...want the community to grow.
Oh well, different strokes for different folks.
edit: BTW, feel free to ignore all of that (not that you need my permission to ignore it)...the first thing I'll tell somebody is that I suck at both PvE and PvP, that on my best day I'm lucky to get near average. Some think I'm kidding...I'm not.
Ahhh see, you have me all wrong. I am one of the most humble people you will meet on the game. I am the first to help anyone who comes to me. I share all my builds with anyone who asks (I don't secretly hold my cards to my chest when i figure something out). For example, I spec'd my recluse for massive plamonic leech drain. My weapons hitting you for -3.4 per--most people hit -2.4 per. I shared my skill planner build with a bunch of pvp'rs and they never even thought about that avenue (extending above drain). Do I have a natural instinct to defend what we do and have accomplished in PvE world? Of course, who wouldn't? I am quite proud of what we have been able to attain in that world. We can clear an estf quickly:
ISE: 13:27 left on optional timer
KASE: 13:19 on timer
CSE: 13:37 left on timer
HSE: 3:02 of total play time start to finish with all optionals (excluding 1 min start ticker)
NWS: 7:20 of total play time (excluding 1 min start ticker)
Of course we have videos posted of all of these runs. This can only be accomplished with highly coordinated runs with very high SUSTAINED dps. On the HSE run, one of our scimi's is maintaining 50k dps through the cube section.
As for our world, we have numerous channels devoted to dps: 5k, 11k, 20, and 30k channels. They have been up for 10+ months. If you were to sit back and watch the chats, you would see that there are no egos. Everyone is extremely helpful. Do we mess with each other--or course-- but always in jest. What there is a complete absence of is: whining. It simply doesn't exist. Knowledge is freely passed amongst us. One of the first things that shocked us when we joined the opvp channel is the incredible amount of "boo hooing" that exists on it. To the point of us making comments to the pvp players we know asking if this is normal behavior on the channel. I don't get it? I really don't. If i get godsmaked by someone, I am driven to figure out why and then how to counter it.
So when you make unfounded assumptions about someone, then attack them, then try to downplay your way out by posting a "I'm a near average player on my best day" is really silly and childish; yet alone transparent and trite.
Hey guys
for start sorry for beeing afk for a while, so the thing is 3 beam FAW boats in my oppinion is not a problem, easy counter with good heals, 5 beam faw boat a problem probably, another thing as anyone else noticed that Grav well 3 is hyper bosted? did they change what counts for damage? because im my sci ive been doing crazy damage... but i like it :P its good to see scis in the battle for high damage and not put them only for healing...
so basicly when i got back i heard a lot about faw and i have a faw boat since the beggining of Season 7 and i already had noticed that it was strong.... nothing that a little bit of cross healing will not fix, of course fleet that dont have synergy in cross healing will struggle a little bit more... but its ok for me...
im more worryed about emo tactics :P just kidding :P
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed) Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Ahhh see, you have me all wrong. I am one of the most humble people you will meet on the game. I am the first to help anyone who comes to me. I share all my builds with anyone who asks (I don't secretly hold my cards to my chest when i figure something out). For example, I spec'd my recluse for massive plamonic leech drain. My weapons hitting you for -3.4 per--most people hit -2.4 per. I shared my skill planner build with a bunch of pvp'rs and they never even thought about that avenue (extending above drain). Do I have a natural instinct to defend what we do and have accomplished in PvE world? Of course, who wouldn't? I am quite proud of what we have been able to attain in that world. We can clear an estf quickly:
ISE: 13:27 left on optional timer
KASE: 13:19 on timer
CSE: 13:37 left on timer
HSE: 3:02 of total play time start to finish with all optionals (excluding 1 min start ticker)
NWS: 7:20 of total play time (excluding 1 min start ticker)
Of course we have videos posted of all of these runs. This can only be accomplished with highly coordinated runs with very high SUSTAINED dps. On the HSE run, one of our scimi's is maintaining 50k dps through the cube section.
As for our world, we have numerous channels devoted to dps: 5k, 11k, 20, and 30k channels. They have been up for 10+ months. If you were to sit back and watch the chats, you would see that there are no egos. Everyone is extremely helpful. Do we mess with each other--or course-- but always in jest. What there is a complete absence of is: whining. It simply doesn't exist. Knowledge is freely passed amongst us. One of the first things that shocked us when we joined the opvp channel is the incredible amount of "boo hooing" that exists on it. To the point of us making comments to the pvp players we know asking if this is normal behavior on the channel. I don't get it? I really don't. If i get godsmaked by someone, I am driven to figure out why and then how to counter it.
So when you make unfounded assumptions about someone, then attack them, then try to downplay your way out by posting a "I'm a near average player on my best day" is really silly and childish; yet alone transparent and trite.
Umm dps against npc's in pve LOL! I guess the age of elitist pve er's is here!
Ahhh see, you have me all wrong. I am one of the most humble people you will meet on the game. I am the first to help anyone who comes to me. I share all my builds with anyone who asks (I don't secretly hold my cards to my chest when i figure something out). For example, I spec'd my recluse for massive plamonic leech drain. My weapons hitting you for -3.4 per--most people hit -2.4 per. I shared my skill planner build with a bunch of pvp'rs and they never even thought about that avenue (extending above drain).
Hrmmm, sharing information on mechanics - how things work - how far one can push various thing - how there are so many pieces to the puzzle that can mixed together for potentially unexpected results...
...I wonder what it would be like to do that. Perhaps without making recommendations though - perhaps just sharing the information so the person can make their own informed decision or perhaps pointing them in the direction of somebody where they could take that new information and seek advice...
Do I have a natural instinct to defend what we do and have accomplished in PvE world? Of course, who wouldn't? I am quite proud of what we have been able to attain in that world. We can clear an estf quickly:
ISE: 13:27 left on optional timer
KASE: 13:19 on timer
CSE: 13:37 left on timer
HSE: 3:02 of total play time start to finish with all optionals (excluding 1 min start ticker)
NWS: 7:20 of total play time (excluding 1 min start ticker)
Of course we have videos posted of all of these runs. This can only be accomplished with highly coordinated runs with very high SUSTAINED dps. On the HSE run, one of our scimi's is maintaining 50k dps through the cube section.
I pop somebody in Ker'rat that's down with the Borg...there's a good chance that I apologize for it.
As for our world, we have numerous channels devoted to dps: 5k, 11k, 20, and 30k channels. They have been up for 10+ months. If you were to sit back and watch the chats, you would see that there are no egos. Everyone is extremely helpful. Do we mess with each other--or course-- but always in jest. What there is a complete absence of is: whining. It simply doesn't exist. Knowledge is freely passed amongst us. One of the first things that shocked us when we joined the opvp channel is the incredible amount of "boo hooing" that exists on it. To the point of us making comments to the pvp players we know asking if this is normal behavior on the channel. I don't get it? I really don't. If i get godsmaked by someone, I am driven to figure out why and then how to counter it.
NPCs can't complain. For those 5k, 11k, 20k, and 30k channels as the NPCs are shredded - they're not going to say anything. Why would you say anything? In PvP, there's somebody on the other end...they're going to complain. That distinction should kind of be obvious....
So when you make unfounded assumptions about someone, then attack them, then try to downplay your way out by posting a "I'm a near average player on my best day" is really silly and childish; yet alone transparent and trite.
Nothing in your reply here changed any of those assumptions, honestly...it kind of reinforced it. I mean, honestly, look at that last bit there, eh? Silly and childish? That's dismissive. That provides a tone that's superior and dismissive of others.
So sad you make up random game commands that make no sense. Lay off the pipe dude. Go back to pve noob!
Having seen both of you in action... I know the only thing you would do is run very fast in which ever direction your nose was pointed at the time.
I admit I learned plenty from the PvE guys when I in fact listened to them and observed some of there builds.
I am humble enough to know when I can learn something here and there.
The DPS channel guys that have been pvping have been doing the same and have been balancing out there builds... taking what they have learned from the PvPers they have talked to as well.
Being a bit humble now and then would perhaps be a good idea there tron.
Having seen both of you in action... I know the only thing you would do is run very fast in which ever direction your nose was pointed at the time.
I admit I learned plenty from the PvE guys when I in fact listened to them and observed some of there builds.
I am humble enough to know when I can learn something here and there.
The DPS channel guys that have been pvping have been doing the same and have been balancing out there builds... taking what they have learned from the PvPers they have talked to as well.
Being a bit humble now and then would perhaps be a good idea there tron.
If I wanted to make an all out dps beam cruiser like theirs I could very easily do so. I am more than up to date on this games mechanics and gear now. It's not the hard. It just doesn't fit my playstyle.
And if you mean running from a sci littered gank to avoid death and give your team a chance to win via less deaths I will assume you mean that's good strategy. Maybe if these so called beam burners put some points into an all around build they could actually catch me fleeing for survival :P I am kinda glad I left Razor in this case since I assumed your fleet ideals were going to mesh with my playstyle but I guess not. Oh well that was months ago. And if you are who I think you are then you had a toon in Razor.
I am not saying these guys aren't good at the game clearly they are. But again they are citing dps numbers against npc's with no damage resists no defense no tact team LOL! It sounds to me like these guys run into the pvp q's with good coordination focusing on one target and melting it. Kinda sounds like tsi except they don't know how to or don't carry heals like tsi! So again I doubt these guys do anything or too much different then dental or other heavy beam dream teams do or have done in the past!
If I wanted to make an all out dps beam cruiser like theirs I could very easily do so. I am more than up to date on this games mechanics and gear now. It's not the hard. It just doesn't fit my playstyle.
And if you mean running from a sci littered gank to avoid death and give your team a chance to win via less deaths I will assume you mean that's good strategy. Maybe if these so called beam burners put some points into an all around build they could actually catch me fleeing for survival :P I am kinda glad I left Razor in this case since I assumed your fleet ideals were going to mesh with my playstyle but I guess not. Oh well that was months ago. And if you are who I think you are then you had a toon in Razor.
I am not saying these guys aren't good at the game clearly they are. But again they are citing dps numbers against npc's with no damage resists no defense no tact team LOL! It sounds to me like these guys run into the pvp q's with good coordination focusing on one target and melting it. Kinda sounds like tsi except they don't know how to or don't carry heals like tsi! So again I doubt these guys do anything or too much different then dental or other heavy beam dream teams do or have done in the past!
Yep I'm known as one of the old razor guys... new razor didn't last to long no some people where not willing to adapt to the current game. (wasn't talking about you there)
Just so you understand though... not all the PvE channel guys are doing crazy numbers with FAW. That is the flavor at the moment sure, and yes most of the crazy 30k+ numbers come off of beams. I do however know PvE guys now that push 30k with cannon builds. Yes the first time I ran some PvE with guys doing 28k DPS with nothing but cannons I was interested in what they where doing. The PvPer in me at first looked for the cheat they had found.
It doesn't hurt to at least look into... and as Porch was saying they are pretty willing to share anything they learn. One advantage they have shooting at those static NPCs so often is being able to very easily and quickly compare X to Y in terms of build. I find using PvE you can tweak Pure DPS ideas much easier then just using PvP as a benchmark.
One interesting thing might be to see what a group of those PvE guys do if they put together a team that used no beams at all. Something tells me they would still find a few ways to put out an insane amount of DPS.
Yep I'm known as one of the old razor guys... new razor didn't last to long no some people where not willing to adapt to the current game. (wasn't talking about you there)
Just so you understand though... not all the PvE channel guys are doing crazy numbers with FAW. That is the flavor at the moment sure, and yes most of the crazy 30k+ numbers come off of beams. I do however know PvE guys now that push 30k with cannon builds. Yes the first time I ran some PvE with guys doing 28k DPS with nothing but cannons I was interested in what they where doing. The PvPer in me at first looked for the cheat they had found.
It doesn't hurt to at least look into... and as Porch was saying they are pretty willing to share anything they learn. One advantage they have shooting at those static NPCs so often is being able to very easily and quickly compare X to Y in terms of build. I find using PvE you can tweak Pure DPS ideas much easier then just using PvP as a benchmark.
One interesting thing might be to see what a group of those PvE guys do if they put together a team that used no beams at all. Something tells me they would still find a few ways to put out an insane amount of DPS.
I know one of them mentioned using a tact kumari with 9 tact powers and running dual scatter volley and dual rapid fire as an option therefore running 4 cannon powers which seriously made me go wtf. If they wanted to keep the 5 dhc fore which clearly they would then why not dump 1 quantum on the rear with a pair of torp spreads? Just make sure your ship can turn fast enough during those 5 seconds between cannon buffs. A lot of what they were saying on those channels seemed counterproductive so it is easier for me tom write them off when I hear 4 cannon buffs on a build.
And yes I can see where our old fearless leader was having issues with the current game. After all we were taking premades with all strike and run ships into the q's in some cases against all carriers /and or other tanks and having to wait for them to warp so we could claim victory. I liked the guys spirit but I also like to be able to actually play the game at some point.
Looking at the last few posts, do you really need telling why a lot of people try PvP then decide to avoid it like the plague?
It's not just the rep grind to "be competitive" it's the egos, complaining and the attitude that because you PvP it automatically makes you better at everything than other people. I know a lot of people here do not do this but the thing is if you don't make a stand against those that act like this then you all get tarnished with the same brush.
That is what is preventing your numbers being replenished as people leave to the rep grind.
For the record, while the PvE content is a joke, the problem is that comments like "pfft PvE is a joke" often get interpreted as "you PvE, you're a joke". This is because you're dismissing something that someone commits to. I mean how would you feel if your a good FPS player and someone calls FPS games kiddy games? A little less hostility on all sides might go a long way. Dare I ask for some respect on both sides too?
For the record, while the PvE content is a joke, the problem is that comments like "pfft PvE is a joke" often get interpreted as "you PvE, you're a joke". This is because you're dismissing something that someone commits to. I mean how would you feel if your a good FPS player and someone calls FPS games kiddy games? A little less hostility on all sides might go a long way. Dare I ask for some respect on both sides too?
It's a game. It's not the first. It won't be the last. There's having fun and there's taking pride. I don't get the taking pride aspect. It's a game.
Taking some extreme level of personal satisfaction from it - where one could become upset from somebody else putting it down...maybe it's time for that person to step away from the keyboard? Perhaps it's become unhealthy? It's a game.
Couldn't do X. Was able to do X. Cool. Satisfaction. Had fun. Taking pride in doing it better than somebody else? It's a game. Feeling awesome about doing X better than somebody else could? It's a game.
Have fun. Blow up NPCs. Blow up players. Get blown up. Are you having fun?
Honesty, it rubs me the wrong way - whether it's somebody boasting in PvP or PvE about their accomplishments - taking "pride" in it. Where's the humility in it? Without the fragile egos based upon some accomplishment in what is just a game...why would there be any hostility about what anybody says? Why would anybody care? If somebody's secure enough in what they're doing, are having fun, etc, etc, etc...who cares what somebody else says?
You can say they're entitled to their opinion, but what you're doing is something you find fun...don't have to turn around and say they couldn't do what you do...turn it into some sort of pissing contest, eh? What good does that do? How does that make the person responding look any better?
It's not a case of saying folks should not have proud moments - doing something new, reaching some new goal...but in the end, it's a game. Have fun, eh?
Don't you people get it, it's because the person is doing more dmg than your tactical team can redirect the shield power. That's why it looks like "full shields" but actually it's breaking your shields faster than it can regenerate.
Say the word, it saves the world. CUUCUUMBEER!"-With slight partigen with it." Proud member or DPS-800"-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Looking at the last few posts, do you really need telling why a lot of people try PvP then decide to avoid it like the plague?
It's not just the rep grind to "be competitive" it's the egos, complaining and the attitude that because you PvP it automatically makes you better at everything than other people. I know a lot of people here do not do this but the thing is if you don't make a stand against those that act like this then you all get tarnished with the same brush.
That is what is preventing your numbers being replenished as people leave to the rep grind.
For the record, while the PvE content is a joke, the problem is that comments like "pfft PvE is a joke" often get interpreted as "you PvE, you're a joke". This is because you're dismissing something that someone commits to. I mean how would you feel if your a good FPS player and someone calls FPS games kiddy games? A little less hostility on all sides might go a long way. Dare I ask for some respect on both sides too?
Again that's fine for you and your view point. Don't care so long as you have fun is a good mentality but then someone with that kind of mentality probably wouldn't make the comments like "pfft PvE is a joke" to begin with eh?
At least when you do make those comments you make the distinction between the content and the players. Just looking at your other post VD you do point this out.
But then VD not everyone does have your viewpoint nor does it make any of them any more or less important. Some people do take pride in what they're good at regardless of what it is, it is only natural. You also are ignoring a very large factor in all this.
Time and time again these same dismissive words get thrown around the forums dismissing people's PvE accomplishments as if it's nothing. Sure to you it's not hurtful and you might hate people being prideful but then if you had hit the top of the PvP ladder after months of testing, refining your build and putting in a lot of effort and then someone comes in and goes "pfft, PvP has tons of cheats and exploits" I dare say most people would feel quite put down by it if not very miffed.
By the way I'm not talking about Porch's "prideful" boast about the record runs, I mean snoge00f's dismissive nature towards Iskandus, Rylan and any other PvE players. I see this all the time in the forums and it's detrimental to PvP as well as PvE.
The guys from DPS 11K crew were the first guys in a long long time that make me go "What the F*** hit me?" Some of these guys can maintain 40k upwards DPS. You saying you can do that? Even translating 1/4 of that into the PvP arena is massive yet these guys did it.
To date, i only know 1 person able to pull 14K DPS in a premade match. Again this was thanks to the "PVE Heroe" tips.
Somehow, i doubt you've "already done" what these guys have done.
A ship that can kill 3 people out of the 5 opponents in seconds even before the rest of the team mates have arrived to support the kills? I don't think you've seen a FAW boat do that where each beam hit is almost like a BO1 in itself.
Again, i can / get 1 of these "PVE Heroe" guys to give you a 1 v 1 demo to see if you really have done it.
"if they are beam boats, theres a good chance ive already done what you guys are figuring out now :P"
Do you realise you come off as very dismissive of those guys??
i wasn't necessarily trying to be dismissive, im sure their ships are as insanely powerful as ive heard. but theres nothing new under the sun, and every new addition gets 'tan' rather quick. i could come up with a whole list of things i dont normally do that would make my DPS even higher then i already get it, doesn't mean i dont know all about it. when i pug survivability comes first, im no good if my ship just ends up being a feeder, no mater how crazy my DPS is.
i dont tend to do any of these things, not more then 1 or 2 of them at once at least
-no EPtW3, perfer RSP or EPtS3
-dont run all crit consoles most the time
-the crit skills on the skill tree rarely have more then 3 speced to them
-dont use rom plasma, not all that convinced those are the highest damage weapons ether
-not running embassy sci consoles with plasma weapons
-not getting the rom and omega item set bonuses for power drain res or additional plasma damage
-same for the nuk rep tet stuff
-not running glider, with as many flow cap as the ship can carry
-mid level tac consoles, nothing better then 2 purple mkXI on any ship
-APB
im sure theres other obvious things im failing to mention as well, sitting here not in game, not looking at my inventory full of stuff. i find sky high shield res and defense, turn rate, movement speed and armor to be far more important as i pug. DPS wont get you far if your a liability. if i had healers watching my back, or the whole team i was on was as overwhelmingly powerful, that would be different.
and ive vaped 3 people in less time then it took FAW to complete before, cant speak to their abilities though, or lack there of lol. thats not much of a limus test
id be interested in hereing if theres anything big that makes all the difference that ive missed. i dont know everything, im hardly the best player, hardly the best pilot, and hardly have the fastest computer lol. but, so far ive not seen anything in these threads that made me say wow, never thought of that. but, not much in the way of useful details have been mentioned ether.
theres 1 great big thing though in all of this that i know the pve guys have missed, something that could boost their DPS tremendously. im gonna keep it to my self though, till i hear what makes these guys so special other then theres 5 of them at once.
im not trying to sound dismissive, elitest, whatever, just skeptical.
why not dump 1 quantum on the rear with a pair of torp spreads? Just make sure your ship can turn fast enough during those 5 seconds between cannon buffs.
not sure if that's serious or just trolling, but still... lol
You can find older stuff that if you look around...with each chunk o' creep, it's grown some. We're at a point right now where the chunk 'o creep is pretty damn chunky...so folks are waddling all over the place with it.
Kind of like BO...was around forever...but once Cryptic pushed it to the point you could drop your cat on the keyboard to take care of business...it was all over the place.
edit: Please don't take this is as dismissive of what some people can do with it. Just like BO, folks that knew what they were doing were always better at it...it's just a case of saying how Cryptic makes something easier and easier so anybody can do it at a certain level.
Don't you people get it, it's because the person is doing more dmg than your tactical team can redirect the shield power. That's why it looks like "full shields" but actually it's breaking your shields faster than it can regenerate.
RCK and I just tested it out privately. I reconfigured my Wells using an anti-Cruiser build, though without Scramble Sensors because that ability is pointless with just the two of us. I don't use Tactical Team on my Pure Science Wells - don't need it and my shield strength is about 26K each facing or roughly 60K of effective shielding per facing because I max out all my subsystem powers and Shield Power = 130. There is no automatic shield distribution nor is it possible to just cut through this monstrous shielding quickly. Given that, your claim is simply impossible to be true because there is no TT to help me. Yet, more often than not, I found myself having close to 100% shielding on all facings but my hull would fall to 60% due to DEM III + BFaW II + APO I + APA III. Mind you, I have 3 shield heals and 3 hull heals, namely : EPtS I, TSS II, RSP II and ET I, ET I, HE II. My resistance to Energy Damage is 105+ from the following :
A2D with purple doff for +40 Energy Damage Resistance
PH I with AUX = 130 for +65 All Damage Resistance
With A2B, my A2D is up 100% of the time because the concerned purple doff extends A2D to 23 sec. RCK doesn't use Tractor Beams, so I just cycle my PH as soon as I can and use it purely as a damage resistance buff.
To make sure I can tank his BFaW barrage, I also use Jevonite Hardpoint for +100 Structural Integrity
The result is : We went back & forth for a good 20 minutes. Everytime I gained an advantage and outmaneuver him to stick it to his behind where his BFaW is the weakest, I am forced to abandon pursuit due to his DEM III. It's cutting though all those shielding and hull damage resist like they don't exist. I was at a disadvantage throughout most of it although I managed to survive thanks to all those heals I have and the Jevonite Hardpoint. It was clear though I can't beat RCK, not with DEM III wrecking havoc through my shields like that. This is far harder to deal than those DHC Escorts because their alpha can be easily dodged in a 1 vs 1 when there is no other distraction around and the heavy shielding absorbed most of their attacks. Just before this private, we were in Kerrat attacking Nightwish of HOBO. Nightwish's DHC and CRF couldn't even scratch my shielding, and he ran both times using Impulse Burst, then cloaked. Yet, that Kerrat build is far less tanky than the one I used to specifically deal with Cruisers - still no way to tank out the DEM III. Can't speed tank it either because the beam broadsides are virtually 360 degree given how maneuverable RCK is. On the other hand, his normal bleedthrough without DEM is very manageable, I found.
In a Team Setting, yes, I would spec Scramble Sensors and if I have access to AA, I would deploy that too. However, testing using a 1 vs 1 private and despite equipping to deal with BFaW, I found myself unable to deal with DEM III.
So the culpit doesn't seem to be BFaW, but rather DEM because I couldn't feel a thing under his regular BFaW - the hull and shield resist eat them up. DEM doesn't seem to be affected by hull resist. I believe if DEM is balanced to reflect the new reality of STO, BFaW will no longer be OP - it never was to begin with.
Additionally, I understand now why the Escort heroes like CryoX and PvP Reptile are falling to RCK. The Escort Heroes underestimate how devastating the BFaW+DEM III can be and got greedy thinking they can finish off RCK first. They are wrong. These Escorts also don't have much heals besides EPtS or HE when in Kerrat, outside of Team Setting. By the time they realize they are in trouble, and think of running, it's usually too late. RCK can run - trust me, his speed is closer to that of an Escort than a Cruiser. You'd be surprised how fast those beams can cut down a wounded Escort. I am familiar with RCK's build and capabilities, certainly didn't underestimate him, that knowledge was the only thing that saved my skin at the end - not the heals I brought, which no amount of heals would be sufficient against that kind of pure pressure dps.
Comments
Yes, somewhere in the middle - lol - don't want the 2-3 hours in, somebody gets d/c'd or experiences some latency at a critical moment and it was all wasted, meh.
The most fun I've had in PvE was a bugged Fleet Defense on one of my KDF guys. Each spawn was 2-3x the normal number it was supposed to be. While folks were grumbling, I was having a blast - sure, I was getting blasted - but I was having a blast too. It was uber phaser proc spam dropping shields with chained torp spreads flying all over the place.
Heck, I even had fun with the initial Elachi - posting that I hoped that Cryptic would bring that kind of AI/teamwork/ability use from the Elachi in space to other NPCs...and kick it up a notch for the Elite stuff. Yeah, I never imagined the outcry that would come from folks about it being "too hard" and thus leading to Cryptic running multiple nerf trains on the Elachi...meh.
Meh, I've asked that Cryptic restructure their difficulty levels to accommodate all types of players...too many of those Saturday Afternoon (soon to be Saturday Morning as STO competes for cartoon time) hate the idea. They want to feel uber doing Elite when it's barely a Normal level.
Imagine though, if instead of...
Normal
Advanced
Elite
...we had:
Casual (formerly Normal)
Normal (formerly Advanced)
Advanced (formerly Elite)
Elite (something new)
Nightmare (something new)
Instead of folks sweating speed runs or minimalist runs, they might actually sweat the actual content...
I think that type of system would be no different then what we have though.
Cryptic would just follow there formula. 1 enemy 2 enemy 3 enemy Double hit points ect ect.
Nightmare would just be 6x as many lowbie NPCs with double hit points ... and 2 cubes instead of 1. lol
What I loved about the old MMOs ... was some of the Content itself just didn't have an easy mode.
There where raids you would only go on with friends that you liked... hopefuly didn't suck... and if they did well you had better like them enough to not care. lol
Having scalable content is the main issue as I see it... how do you dumb down a hard mode game mechanic. Think of the old STFs before they got the easy mode over haul. I didn't run them that often because well Cryptic are not great raid designers. Still I remember doing those stupid ground STFs with fleet mates when we where board. It was a blast (doing co op pve for an hour or two with friends that is) even if the level design wasn't that hard... and the closest they got to old school MMO raid team work was jumping around waiting to hide from a borg queen.
Being able to knock ALL the stfs out in under 10 min is nice... but ya would be nice to have some kind of epic feeling hour long match that felt like you just took part in a real trek battle... and not one cut for TV.
Heh, Elite and Nightmare (in my vision) wouldn't follow the meatier mob with the beefier club scaling that the others would...
...they'd be using abilities, working together, have access to reputation passives, various procs, etc, etc, etc.
The AI couldn't offer the "random" stuff that one might come across in PvP, but as long as it wasn't scripted so folks knew that at 3 minutes mob x was going to do whatever (can't stand scripted content)...and attempted to use abilities as thresholds were met - had any semblance of situational awareness...
Think about it - we've got the Nimbus Pirates, right? That "friendly" AI was along the lines of what the Elachi were doing - working together. So we know that Cryptic's got it - they just can't put it in the game because too many folks would complain.
They could kick it up a notch, they tried, we lost hundreds of thousands of posters as they drowned in all the tears...
Which is another sort of thing they can do...we can do the CCN or CCE to get the shard for the event. Folks that just want to zip through things could do the zippier things - folks that want more, could do more...and in doing more, get better rewards.
Course, that's where all the entitlement players come in demanding they get the same rewards because they were able to log in to the game...and that's enough effort that they should get everything!
edit: Heh, the funny thing about this particular post...is it may come off as having a bit of ego when I went off on ego just recently. The first thing I'll generally tell anybody is that I suck at both PvE and PvP. On my best days, I'm lucky to approach average...on my best days. So it's not an ego thing - it's an opinion thing. I'm very opinionated. I want the game to grow. Providing things for those folks that on their worst day, they're better than me on my best day would help that - providing things for those folks that on their best day are worse than me, would help that. I want the game to grow, I'm selfish that way.
edit
just did a bit of quick math, and i was semi surprised. i looked up the dps on sto wiki for a white mkX of a turret, DHC and beam arrays, and came up with these results
8 beam arrays= 1280DPS
4DHC+3 turrets=1288DPS
isnt that WAY to close together? so running DCs is basically as effective as just running beam arrays basic DPS wise. DHCs only advantage is their front loaded damage, not their DPS. but its easier to buff their single target damage the highest.
the first thing that poped into my head is good god single cannons are horribly underpowered compared to these 2 setups. they arent balanced keeping in mind that they have to be parred with turrets. 1 single and 1 turrets has less DPS then 2 beam arrays
4 single cannons+4 turrets=1248
if only i could get a full set of heavy single cannons, that would help effectiveness at least. but it would reduce the effectiveness of what works best with singles, DEM and glider. singles need a raw DPS buff, or buff turrets lol
You assume too much I think.
Good chance you already built it? Not likely.
The guys from DPS 11K crew were the first guys in a long long time that make me go "What the F*** hit me?" Some of these guys can maintain 40k upwards DPS. You saying you can do that? Even translating 1/4 of that into the PvP arena is massive yet these guys did it.
To date, i only know 1 person able to pull 14K DPS in a premade match. Again this was thanks to the "PVE Heroe" tips.
Somehow, i doubt you've "already done" what these guys have done.
A ship that can kill 3 people out of the 5 opponents in seconds even before the rest of the team mates have arrived to support the kills? I don't think you've seen a FAW boat do that where each beam hit is almost like a BO1 in itself.
Again, i can / get 1 of these "PVE Heroe" guys to give you a 1 v 1 demo to see if you really have done it.
"if they are beam boats, theres a good chance ive already done what you guys are figuring out now :P"
Do you realise you come off as very dismissive of those guys??
I actually wasnt surprised when I heard they came in and spanked some of the PvP guys a couple weeks back.
Something interesting I figured out on my own is that a borg probe in Khitomer has more hull than any player ship. Now imagine a BFAW buzzsaw tearing through those. (happy easy peasy stuff right?)
Now imagine the same buzzsaw on you, especially when the debuff spam hits your precious resistances. (yes I know there are counters, but from what it sounded like the raw damage output took people completely off guard)
Best not have your tactical team on CD from a keybind when that APB hits you...
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Ahhh see, you have me all wrong. I am one of the most humble people you will meet on the game. I am the first to help anyone who comes to me. I share all my builds with anyone who asks (I don't secretly hold my cards to my chest when i figure something out). For example, I spec'd my recluse for massive plamonic leech drain. My weapons hitting you for -3.4 per--most people hit -2.4 per. I shared my skill planner build with a bunch of pvp'rs and they never even thought about that avenue (extending above drain). Do I have a natural instinct to defend what we do and have accomplished in PvE world? Of course, who wouldn't? I am quite proud of what we have been able to attain in that world. We can clear an estf quickly:
ISE: 13:27 left on optional timer
KASE: 13:19 on timer
CSE: 13:37 left on timer
HSE: 3:02 of total play time start to finish with all optionals (excluding 1 min start ticker)
NWS: 7:20 of total play time (excluding 1 min start ticker)
Of course we have videos posted of all of these runs. This can only be accomplished with highly coordinated runs with very high SUSTAINED dps. On the HSE run, one of our scimi's is maintaining 50k dps through the cube section.
As for our world, we have numerous channels devoted to dps: 5k, 11k, 20, and 30k channels. They have been up for 10+ months. If you were to sit back and watch the chats, you would see that there are no egos. Everyone is extremely helpful. Do we mess with each other--or course-- but always in jest. What there is a complete absence of is: whining. It simply doesn't exist. Knowledge is freely passed amongst us. One of the first things that shocked us when we joined the opvp channel is the incredible amount of "boo hooing" that exists on it. To the point of us making comments to the pvp players we know asking if this is normal behavior on the channel. I don't get it? I really don't. If i get godsmaked by someone, I am driven to figure out why and then how to counter it.
So when you make unfounded assumptions about someone, then attack them, then try to downplay your way out by posting a "I'm a near average player on my best day" is really silly and childish; yet alone transparent and trite.
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
for start sorry for beeing afk for a while, so the thing is 3 beam FAW boats in my oppinion is not a problem, easy counter with good heals, 5 beam faw boat a problem probably, another thing as anyone else noticed that Grav well 3 is hyper bosted? did they change what counts for damage? because im my sci ive been doing crazy damage... but i like it :P its good to see scis in the battle for high damage and not put them only for healing...
so basicly when i got back i heard a lot about faw and i have a faw boat since the beggining of Season 7 and i already had noticed that it was strong.... nothing that a little bit of cross healing will not fix, of course fleet that dont have synergy in cross healing will struggle a little bit more... but its ok for me...
im more worryed about emo tactics :P just kidding :P
Federation :: Fleetless :: Klingon
Jorge Silva - Tac | Nayja - Sci | Jorge E. Silva - Eng
Jorge R. Silva - Tac (Romulan Fed)
Nayja K Silva - Sci | Vurg'jah - Tac
Umm dps against npc's in pve LOL! I guess the age of elitist pve er's is here!
Sooo sad. Completely misses the point. . . .sigh. . . ./Talogout
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Hrmmm, sharing information on mechanics - how things work - how far one can push various thing - how there are so many pieces to the puzzle that can mixed together for potentially unexpected results...
...I wonder what it would be like to do that. Perhaps without making recommendations though - perhaps just sharing the information so the person can make their own informed decision or perhaps pointing them in the direction of somebody where they could take that new information and seek advice...
I pop somebody in Ker'rat that's down with the Borg...there's a good chance that I apologize for it.
NPCs can't complain. For those 5k, 11k, 20k, and 30k channels as the NPCs are shredded - they're not going to say anything. Why would you say anything? In PvP, there's somebody on the other end...they're going to complain. That distinction should kind of be obvious....
Nothing in your reply here changed any of those assumptions, honestly...it kind of reinforced it. I mean, honestly, look at that last bit there, eh? Silly and childish? That's dismissive. That provides a tone that's superior and dismissive of others.
By the way...it wasn't downplaying.
So sad you make up random game commands that make no sense. Lay off the pipe dude. Go back to pve noob!
Having seen both of you in action... I know the only thing you would do is run very fast in which ever direction your nose was pointed at the time.
I admit I learned plenty from the PvE guys when I in fact listened to them and observed some of there builds.
I am humble enough to know when I can learn something here and there.
The DPS channel guys that have been pvping have been doing the same and have been balancing out there builds... taking what they have learned from the PvPers they have talked to as well.
Being a bit humble now and then would perhaps be a good idea there tron.
If I wanted to make an all out dps beam cruiser like theirs I could very easily do so. I am more than up to date on this games mechanics and gear now. It's not the hard. It just doesn't fit my playstyle.
And if you mean running from a sci littered gank to avoid death and give your team a chance to win via less deaths I will assume you mean that's good strategy. Maybe if these so called beam burners put some points into an all around build they could actually catch me fleeing for survival :P I am kinda glad I left Razor in this case since I assumed your fleet ideals were going to mesh with my playstyle but I guess not. Oh well that was months ago. And if you are who I think you are then you had a toon in Razor.
I am not saying these guys aren't good at the game clearly they are. But again they are citing dps numbers against npc's with no damage resists no defense no tact team LOL! It sounds to me like these guys run into the pvp q's with good coordination focusing on one target and melting it. Kinda sounds like tsi except they don't know how to or don't carry heals like tsi! So again I doubt these guys do anything or too much different then dental or other heavy beam dream teams do or have done in the past!
Yep I'm known as one of the old razor guys... new razor didn't last to long no some people where not willing to adapt to the current game. (wasn't talking about you there)
Just so you understand though... not all the PvE channel guys are doing crazy numbers with FAW. That is the flavor at the moment sure, and yes most of the crazy 30k+ numbers come off of beams. I do however know PvE guys now that push 30k with cannon builds. Yes the first time I ran some PvE with guys doing 28k DPS with nothing but cannons I was interested in what they where doing. The PvPer in me at first looked for the cheat they had found.
It doesn't hurt to at least look into... and as Porch was saying they are pretty willing to share anything they learn. One advantage they have shooting at those static NPCs so often is being able to very easily and quickly compare X to Y in terms of build. I find using PvE you can tweak Pure DPS ideas much easier then just using PvP as a benchmark.
One interesting thing might be to see what a group of those PvE guys do if they put together a team that used no beams at all. Something tells me they would still find a few ways to put out an insane amount of DPS.
I know one of them mentioned using a tact kumari with 9 tact powers and running dual scatter volley and dual rapid fire as an option therefore running 4 cannon powers which seriously made me go wtf. If they wanted to keep the 5 dhc fore which clearly they would then why not dump 1 quantum on the rear with a pair of torp spreads? Just make sure your ship can turn fast enough during those 5 seconds between cannon buffs. A lot of what they were saying on those channels seemed counterproductive so it is easier for me tom write them off when I hear 4 cannon buffs on a build.
And yes I can see where our old fearless leader was having issues with the current game. After all we were taking premades with all strike and run ships into the q's in some cases against all carriers /and or other tanks and having to wait for them to warp so we could claim victory. I liked the guys spirit but I also like to be able to actually play the game at some point.
It's not just the rep grind to "be competitive" it's the egos, complaining and the attitude that because you PvP it automatically makes you better at everything than other people. I know a lot of people here do not do this but the thing is if you don't make a stand against those that act like this then you all get tarnished with the same brush.
That is what is preventing your numbers being replenished as people leave to the rep grind.
For the record, while the PvE content is a joke, the problem is that comments like "pfft PvE is a joke" often get interpreted as "you PvE, you're a joke". This is because you're dismissing something that someone commits to. I mean how would you feel if your a good FPS player and someone calls FPS games kiddy games? A little less hostility on all sides might go a long way. Dare I ask for some respect on both sides too?
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
It's a game. It's not the first. It won't be the last. There's having fun and there's taking pride. I don't get the taking pride aspect. It's a game.
Taking some extreme level of personal satisfaction from it - where one could become upset from somebody else putting it down...maybe it's time for that person to step away from the keyboard? Perhaps it's become unhealthy? It's a game.
Couldn't do X. Was able to do X. Cool. Satisfaction. Had fun. Taking pride in doing it better than somebody else? It's a game. Feeling awesome about doing X better than somebody else could? It's a game.
Have fun. Blow up NPCs. Blow up players. Get blown up. Are you having fun?
Honesty, it rubs me the wrong way - whether it's somebody boasting in PvP or PvE about their accomplishments - taking "pride" in it. Where's the humility in it? Without the fragile egos based upon some accomplishment in what is just a game...why would there be any hostility about what anybody says? Why would anybody care? If somebody's secure enough in what they're doing, are having fun, etc, etc, etc...who cares what somebody else says?
You can say they're entitled to their opinion, but what you're doing is something you find fun...don't have to turn around and say they couldn't do what you do...turn it into some sort of pissing contest, eh? What good does that do? How does that make the person responding look any better?
It's not a case of saying folks should not have proud moments - doing something new, reaching some new goal...but in the end, it's a game. Have fun, eh?
CUUCUUMBEER! "-With slight partigen with it."
Proud member or DPS-800 "-We kill dem mines with our scitter turrets."
Couldnt put it any better....
At least when you do make those comments you make the distinction between the content and the players. Just looking at your other post VD you do point this out.
But then VD not everyone does have your viewpoint nor does it make any of them any more or less important. Some people do take pride in what they're good at regardless of what it is, it is only natural. You also are ignoring a very large factor in all this.
Time and time again these same dismissive words get thrown around the forums dismissing people's PvE accomplishments as if it's nothing. Sure to you it's not hurtful and you might hate people being prideful but then if you had hit the top of the PvP ladder after months of testing, refining your build and putting in a lot of effort and then someone comes in and goes "pfft, PvP has tons of cheats and exploits" I dare say most people would feel quite put down by it if not very miffed.
By the way I'm not talking about Porch's "prideful" boast about the record runs, I mean snoge00f's dismissive nature towards Iskandus, Rylan and any other PvE players. I see this all the time in the forums and it's detrimental to PvP as well as PvE.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
i wasn't necessarily trying to be dismissive, im sure their ships are as insanely powerful as ive heard. but theres nothing new under the sun, and every new addition gets 'tan' rather quick. i could come up with a whole list of things i dont normally do that would make my DPS even higher then i already get it, doesn't mean i dont know all about it. when i pug survivability comes first, im no good if my ship just ends up being a feeder, no mater how crazy my DPS is.
i dont tend to do any of these things, not more then 1 or 2 of them at once at least
-no EPtW3, perfer RSP or EPtS3
-dont run all crit consoles most the time
-the crit skills on the skill tree rarely have more then 3 speced to them
-dont use rom plasma, not all that convinced those are the highest damage weapons ether
-not running embassy sci consoles with plasma weapons
-not getting the rom and omega item set bonuses for power drain res or additional plasma damage
-same for the nuk rep tet stuff
-not running glider, with as many flow cap as the ship can carry
-mid level tac consoles, nothing better then 2 purple mkXI on any ship
-APB
im sure theres other obvious things im failing to mention as well, sitting here not in game, not looking at my inventory full of stuff. i find sky high shield res and defense, turn rate, movement speed and armor to be far more important as i pug. DPS wont get you far if your a liability. if i had healers watching my back, or the whole team i was on was as overwhelmingly powerful, that would be different.
and ive vaped 3 people in less time then it took FAW to complete before, cant speak to their abilities though, or lack there of lol. thats not much of a limus test
id be interested in hereing if theres anything big that makes all the difference that ive missed. i dont know everything, im hardly the best player, hardly the best pilot, and hardly have the fastest computer lol. but, so far ive not seen anything in these threads that made me say wow, never thought of that. but, not much in the way of useful details have been mentioned ether.
theres 1 great big thing though in all of this that i know the pve guys have missed, something that could boost their DPS tremendously. im gonna keep it to my self though, till i hear what makes these guys so special other then theres 5 of them at once.
im not trying to sound dismissive, elitest, whatever, just skeptical.
not sure if that's serious or just trolling, but still... lol
Elite Defense Stovokor
You can find older stuff that if you look around...with each chunk o' creep, it's grown some. We're at a point right now where the chunk 'o creep is pretty damn chunky...so folks are waddling all over the place with it.
Kind of like BO...was around forever...but once Cryptic pushed it to the point you could drop your cat on the keyboard to take care of business...it was all over the place.
edit: Please don't take this is as dismissive of what some people can do with it. Just like BO, folks that knew what they were doing were always better at it...it's just a case of saying how Cryptic makes something easier and easier so anybody can do it at a certain level.
ya, this stuff really wasn't news to us. and much farther back then this
RCK and I just tested it out privately. I reconfigured my Wells using an anti-Cruiser build, though without Scramble Sensors because that ability is pointless with just the two of us. I don't use Tactical Team on my Pure Science Wells - don't need it and my shield strength is about 26K each facing or roughly 60K of effective shielding per facing because I max out all my subsystem powers and Shield Power = 130. There is no automatic shield distribution nor is it possible to just cut through this monstrous shielding quickly. Given that, your claim is simply impossible to be true because there is no TT to help me. Yet, more often than not, I found myself having close to 100% shielding on all facings but my hull would fall to 60% due to DEM III + BFaW II + APO I + APA III. Mind you, I have 3 shield heals and 3 hull heals, namely : EPtS I, TSS II, RSP II and ET I, ET I, HE II. My resistance to Energy Damage is 105+ from the following :
A2D with purple doff for +40 Energy Damage Resistance
PH I with AUX = 130 for +65 All Damage Resistance
With A2B, my A2D is up 100% of the time because the concerned purple doff extends A2D to 23 sec. RCK doesn't use Tractor Beams, so I just cycle my PH as soon as I can and use it purely as a damage resistance buff.
To make sure I can tank his BFaW barrage, I also use Jevonite Hardpoint for +100 Structural Integrity
The result is : We went back & forth for a good 20 minutes. Everytime I gained an advantage and outmaneuver him to stick it to his behind where his BFaW is the weakest, I am forced to abandon pursuit due to his DEM III. It's cutting though all those shielding and hull damage resist like they don't exist. I was at a disadvantage throughout most of it although I managed to survive thanks to all those heals I have and the Jevonite Hardpoint. It was clear though I can't beat RCK, not with DEM III wrecking havoc through my shields like that. This is far harder to deal than those DHC Escorts because their alpha can be easily dodged in a 1 vs 1 when there is no other distraction around and the heavy shielding absorbed most of their attacks. Just before this private, we were in Kerrat attacking Nightwish of HOBO. Nightwish's DHC and CRF couldn't even scratch my shielding, and he ran both times using Impulse Burst, then cloaked. Yet, that Kerrat build is far less tanky than the one I used to specifically deal with Cruisers - still no way to tank out the DEM III. Can't speed tank it either because the beam broadsides are virtually 360 degree given how maneuverable RCK is. On the other hand, his normal bleedthrough without DEM is very manageable, I found.
In a Team Setting, yes, I would spec Scramble Sensors and if I have access to AA, I would deploy that too. However, testing using a 1 vs 1 private and despite equipping to deal with BFaW, I found myself unable to deal with DEM III.
So the culpit doesn't seem to be BFaW, but rather DEM because I couldn't feel a thing under his regular BFaW - the hull and shield resist eat them up. DEM doesn't seem to be affected by hull resist. I believe if DEM is balanced to reflect the new reality of STO, BFaW will no longer be OP - it never was to begin with.
This sounds like it's worth testing. Virus, Hilbert, Drunk, whoever - anyone seen any data that might reflect this?