I am not sure escorts will get commands, the commands are to make up for the reduced dps potential which is present unless you run a very specific Tactical captain A2B, DEM build. The escorts have damage on their side across the board, and damage is teh key statistic in this game. If your contribution is outside of dps, then you have to be exponentially higher than a decent dps dealer's support capacity.
The in this line of thinking escorts should get special commands.
To... You know... Make them more defensive maybe. Or maybe have more Sci kick or something....
Oh wait I have an idea...
How about if you want to do damage get in a tactical ship.
If you want to heal then get in a defensive ship.
If you want to debuff and crowd crontrol get in a Sci heavy ship.
Dammit I swear trying to make every ship good at everything makes everyone not really good at anything. A ******n star fleet of jack of all trades.
The in this line of thinking escorts should get special commands.
To... You know... Make them more defensive maybe. Or maybe have more Sci kick or something....
Oh wait I have an idea...
How about if you want to do damage get in a tactical ship.
If you want to heal then get in a defensive ship.
If you want to debuff and crowd crontrol get in a Sci heavy ship.
Dammit I swear trying to make every ship good at everything makes everyone not really good at anything. A ******n star fleet of jack of all trades.
So er can escorts have that bonus 10% defence they have over every other ship type removed if they get commands to make them more defensive?
Escorts already get the bonus of not just dual but they then got dual heavy cannons right across the board. Then they also got the higher defense value too. Sure they have less hull than a cruiser but more than a sci ship and sometimes the worst shield mod but when 10% of all damage is completely mitigated as in it doesn't hit at all you realise just how much they already have going for them.
Then let's think of how any objective is completed, here's a task. Name the game modes where destroying your enemy is not the way to complete it. Then name the ones that do require you to destroy your enemy to win.
FAW is not a huge problem unless there are very few targets for a team full of FAW boats to hit, then you get smoked.
I notice several pre-mades using a ton of spam + photonic summons + pirates + dem, faw, apb, aux2bat boats. It's not very fun but hey that's just my opinion. It is very effective, though.
I wish that in this game, the things that become very effective would not always be the cheesiest and most annoying.
Well you can get the damage of a escort in cruiser ships that can tank and heal so why play escorts anymore?! I rarely do any more.
I always had tacs in cruisers here and there and was really successful at fighting escorts but pilots like yoda were very hard to fight always came down to the wire. Now i can sleep and kill escorts at the same time the easy button just got bigger!
mostly because it is only true for a handfull of ships. Most cruisers are still rubbish compared do basicly all escorts. Name one escort thats simply not capable of doing 1vs1 kills. MAybe, maybe the aqzuarius, but even that thing is extremly capable, its just most escorts are better.
On the cruiser side there are 3 ships: avenger, regent, excelsior, preferably in ther fleet versions.
And all of them have to be setup to pull of the 2atb,dem3,apb,faw combo and still be able to survive.
All those are relativly expensive to get, the technitian doffs and dem boff marion cost a fortune as do space fabrication doffs, not to mention all the mk12 purple stuff you need and some of the best consoles are lobi so extra costs over and over.
Not everyone does invest so much in a ship.
I think most players who want to do pvp in a cruiser basicly have not much other choice.
Resistances went through the roof so pressure damage was pointless, no 4 month ago most people agreed that beams are a wast of time, drained to much energy and didnt have the rate of fire to get enough crtitical hits to be worthwhile.
So what, the game changed, and while i agree that things go over the top with some ships, especialy the scimitars,most cruisers still are a wast of time if you want to have the slightest chance to make a kill.
And it doesnt always work very well if timing is incorrect and parts or rep traits are not top tier yet.
Faw is so easy to counter with aceton assimilator, feedback pulse, scramble sensors, subnuke. And all those cruisers get quite squishy if they are debuffed and held as most of them ditch apo or ph in favor of basic heals or enough debuffing potential via apb/apd.
I agree it is frustrating to fight 5 faw beamboats, but as is 5 escorts especialy if they can cloak for doing decloaking damage.
They took away double tapping, now people do the next best thing. It will change.
I remember when sci was totally op in some cases, the nerfed it into oblivion and it still hasent come back to even a comparabler standart apart from captains abilities.
Most sci ships are still either junk in todays dps centered environment or depend on so many things it needs a dedicated built to one role, wich is strategicly an invitation for desaster.
Good PVP is being able to take standard issue items into the match and still be able to do well based on skill alone. Anything beyond standard issue is to make it more fun.
When those items that go beyond standard issue start to define who wins and who loses, that is when PVP breaks down.
Good PVP is being able to take standard issue items into the match and still be able to do well based on skill alone. Anything beyond standard issue is to make it more fun.
When those items that go beyond standard issue start to define who wins and who loses, that is when PVP breaks down.
dont feel like making a new thread, but i haven't seen this commented on here yet. in the tribble patch notes they actually fix the KHG shield, so it cant proc more often then every 10 seconds. no multi proc stacking, invisible TRIBBLE holes for 7+ seconds anymore.
also fleet tac consoles in energy type flavors too, but still with crappy +25 damage.
dont feel like making a new thread, but i haven't seen this commented on here yet. in the tribble patch notes they actually fix the KHG shield, so it cant proc more often then every 10 seconds. no multi proc stacking, invisible TRIBBLE holes for 7+ seconds anymore.
also fleet tac consoles in energy type flavors too, but still with crappy +25 damage.
But they don't mention if the energy specific consoles will have crtd/crth bonus, I suspect they will otherwise you can buy the MKXII blue consoles at a snip
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
NOW all we see in queu and kerat is BFAW build, if u pug with friends with escort and normal setup , GOOD luck, escort are not anymore usefull !
by the way i dont spent anymroe money in STO , im waiting for Star Cityzen to be released , in SC the dev care about evrything !!!!!!
[System] Link has been on active duty for 415 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I don't know if, the OP is an abuser, but apparently they can't compete without buying their ship/equipment.
well i made a BFAW and some fleet mate did it too, we have did a premade full of BFAW, ITS JUST NOT FUN its too easy ,no need skill for turn in cricle and spam the space bar and ppl say ***t about you when they see they cant do nothing agaist that ! THIS is KILLING the GAME !!!
[System] Link has been on active duty for 415 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
Geko said its fine so it must be because he gets his info from zone chat :rolleyes:
He even said that there should be flexibility in builds because that's the current trend in mmos (WoW was the trend when sto was released ...we see how awesome is now).So if you think escorts are the dps class you are wrong ,cruisers are ....escorts will be healers and current players will be players on some other games ...happened before and it will happen again just look at your friends list.
Now, I wish au2bat doffs would be nerfed, but FAW is working just as it should. And there are fine countermasures available: Feedback Pulse, scramble sensors (so they FAW their own teammates and pets), decloaking alpha strikes, and so on.
Seriously, stop whining, OP.
well u dont knwo what that clear debuff DOFF do and HELLO they all using RSP 3 ! u must never play for say that !!!!!!
[System] Link has been on active duty for 415 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, 16 seconds.
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
well u dont knwo what that clear debuff DOFF do and HELLO they all using RSP 3 ! u must never play for say that !!!!!!
If you are referring to my team, nobody had RSP 3. And like was said, MANY things can counter an A2B FaW team. Heck even the latest gravity well + scramble sensors craze does a very good job at it. But I guess its true, those who can counter, those who can't whine.
But I guess its true, those who can counter, those who can't whine.
It takes skill and timing to use counters. You also cannot have every counter available to you when you need it, sure - after you encounter something, if you can break combat...you can make the adjustments if you're carrying what's needed...but you can't do that in the midst of combat.
The AtB FAW DEM EPtW etc stuff on the other hand...just requires a sturdy spacebar.
The AtB FAW DEM EPtW etc stuff on the other hand...just requires a sturdy spacebar.
Yes, but so can many other builds. If you can build a team with good crowd control, you won't have to run in middle of combat to switch build. And I'd be the first to say that an A2B build has several weaknesses, especially the way I run it. People just get so caught up in laying blame, that they can't figure out that they can just change their own build to counter. Here's an idea. Everyone knows that A2B is one of the current FOTM. So if you are building a premade, you can easily build some sort of counter since you will run into at least one A2B ship.
Does anyone else find it amusing when a consistent abuser cries OP on a FOTM ability?
Quite a few of us. And you know what? FAW, power drain mechanics, or some of the other facets of power creep may actually need to be looked at again, but the way the OP is going about things just turns people off -- players and devs alike. I understand English may not be his first language but there are plenty of other people in that situation who don't come across as raving maniacs, hell, I think most of them come across as highly intelligent. If he wants to be taken seriously, the OP needs to learn to communicate like an adult.
In terms of FAW I'll just reiterate a couple of counter points:
1. Some groups have already had success in countering FAW heavy teams, usually relying on bringing huge healing and the occasional engineer. Scramble and GW are other potential counters.
2. The scaling damage resistance passive coming with the sphere reputation system is a significant counter to sustained damage, and should probably be tested before considering further balance changes.
NOW all we see in queu and kerat is BFAW build, if u pug with friends with escort and normal setup , GOOD luck, escort are not anymore usefull !
by the way i dont spent anymroe money in STO , im waiting for Star Cityzen to be released , in SC the dev care about evrything !!!!!!
You do realise Star citizen is so blatantly pay to win. Their 5000 USD packages gives you all their shiny new and more ships with lifetime insurance which you can't get with the lesser packages.
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Faw boats are not that hard to counter at all. Be it aceton assimilator, aceton beam, feedback pulse, scramble sensors even viral matrix can go a long way.
That easiness of use faw boats have can be decptive though. Positioning is key, and combined with holds those are very deadly especialy against single targets.
Most stand little chance to encirclement, so timing and a succesfull attemt to separate them is key.
Beating a faw boat especialy if the player isnt just smashing keys is very very hard and the old tactic of overwhelminf firepower stands a slim chance to bring such a target down.
Disabling, holds and positioning are way more important than just brute force.
Comments
The in this line of thinking escorts should get special commands.
To... You know... Make them more defensive maybe. Or maybe have more Sci kick or something....
Oh wait I have an idea...
How about if you want to do damage get in a tactical ship.
If you want to heal then get in a defensive ship.
If you want to debuff and crowd crontrol get in a Sci heavy ship.
Dammit I swear trying to make every ship good at everything makes everyone not really good at anything. A ******n star fleet of jack of all trades.
So er can escorts have that bonus 10% defence they have over every other ship type removed if they get commands to make them more defensive?
Escorts already get the bonus of not just dual but they then got dual heavy cannons right across the board. Then they also got the higher defense value too. Sure they have less hull than a cruiser but more than a sci ship and sometimes the worst shield mod but when 10% of all damage is completely mitigated as in it doesn't hit at all you realise just how much they already have going for them.
Then let's think of how any objective is completed, here's a task. Name the game modes where destroying your enemy is not the way to complete it. Then name the ones that do require you to destroy your enemy to win.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I notice several pre-mades using a ton of spam + photonic summons + pirates + dem, faw, apb, aux2bat boats. It's not very fun but hey that's just my opinion. It is very effective, though.
I wish that in this game, the things that become very effective would not always be the cheesiest and most annoying.
I always had tacs in cruisers here and there and was really successful at fighting escorts but pilots like yoda were very hard to fight always came down to the wire. Now i can sleep and kill escorts at the same time the easy button just got bigger!
On the cruiser side there are 3 ships: avenger, regent, excelsior, preferably in ther fleet versions.
And all of them have to be setup to pull of the 2atb,dem3,apb,faw combo and still be able to survive.
All those are relativly expensive to get, the technitian doffs and dem boff marion cost a fortune as do space fabrication doffs, not to mention all the mk12 purple stuff you need and some of the best consoles are lobi so extra costs over and over.
Not everyone does invest so much in a ship.
I think most players who want to do pvp in a cruiser basicly have not much other choice.
Resistances went through the roof so pressure damage was pointless, no 4 month ago most people agreed that beams are a wast of time, drained to much energy and didnt have the rate of fire to get enough crtitical hits to be worthwhile.
So what, the game changed, and while i agree that things go over the top with some ships, especialy the scimitars,most cruisers still are a wast of time if you want to have the slightest chance to make a kill.
And it doesnt always work very well if timing is incorrect and parts or rep traits are not top tier yet.
Faw is so easy to counter with aceton assimilator, feedback pulse, scramble sensors, subnuke. And all those cruisers get quite squishy if they are debuffed and held as most of them ditch apo or ph in favor of basic heals or enough debuffing potential via apb/apd.
I agree it is frustrating to fight 5 faw beamboats, but as is 5 escorts especialy if they can cloak for doing decloaking damage.
They took away double tapping, now people do the next best thing. It will change.
I remember when sci was totally op in some cases, the nerfed it into oblivion and it still hasent come back to even a comparabler standart apart from captains abilities.
Most sci ships are still either junk in todays dps centered environment or depend on so many things it needs a dedicated built to one role, wich is strategicly an invitation for desaster.
It's PVP, someone's got to die.
So if i kill someone with my warp core breach, do you want to nerf warp cores too? good luck travelling at sub light speeds in space
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
When those items that go beyond standard issue start to define who wins and who loses, that is when PVP breaks down.
At least thats how it should be anyway.
How the fawk does this relate to the topic?
how about this for off topic?
dont feel like making a new thread, but i haven't seen this commented on here yet. in the tribble patch notes they actually fix the KHG shield, so it cant proc more often then every 10 seconds. no multi proc stacking, invisible TRIBBLE holes for 7+ seconds anymore.
also fleet tac consoles in energy type flavors too, but still with crappy +25 damage.
But they don't mention if the energy specific consoles will have crtd/crth bonus, I suspect they will otherwise you can buy the MKXII blue consoles at a snip
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
by the way i dont spent anymroe money in STO , im waiting for Star Cityzen to be released , in SC the dev care about evrything !!!!!!
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
French Canadian
... ? ...
Yeah.. even I don't believe that.
:cool:
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I don't know if, the OP is an abuser, but apparently they can't compete without buying their ship/equipment.
On a personal note: Edalgo and i gonna have some werds if he dont stop picking on my bop >=/
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
Evryone wannabe KIRK lol
well i made a BFAW and some fleet mate did it too, we have did a premade full of BFAW, ITS JUST NOT FUN its too easy ,no need skill for turn in cricle and spam the space bar and ppl say ***t about you when they see they cant do nothing agaist that ! THIS is KILLING the GAME !!!
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
French Canadian
He even said that there should be flexibility in builds because that's the current trend in mmos (WoW was the trend when sto was released ...we see how awesome is now).So if you think escorts are the dps class you are wrong ,cruisers are ....escorts will be healers and current players will be players on some other games ...happened before and it will happen again just look at your friends list.
But, but...don't you remember the Extend circlej...er...never mind.
well u dont knwo what that clear debuff DOFF do and HELLO they all using RSP 3 ! u must never play for say that !!!!!!
[System] Zelda has been on active duty for 126 days, 11 hours, 51 minutes, 48 seconds.
French Canadian
got raged at for not healing the bop that kept dying
/sigh
Fleet Admiral Rylana - Fed Tac - U.S.S Wild Card - Tactical Miracle Worker Cruiser
Lifetime Subscriber since 2012 == 17,200 Accolades = RIP PvP and Vice Squad
Chief of Starfleet Intelligence Service == Praise Cheesus
If you are referring to my team, nobody had RSP 3. And like was said, MANY things can counter an A2B FaW team. Heck even the latest gravity well + scramble sensors craze does a very good job at it. But I guess its true, those who can counter, those who can't whine.
It takes skill and timing to use counters. You also cannot have every counter available to you when you need it, sure - after you encounter something, if you can break combat...you can make the adjustments if you're carrying what's needed...but you can't do that in the midst of combat.
The AtB FAW DEM EPtW etc stuff on the other hand...just requires a sturdy spacebar.
Yes, but so can many other builds. If you can build a team with good crowd control, you won't have to run in middle of combat to switch build. And I'd be the first to say that an A2B build has several weaknesses, especially the way I run it. People just get so caught up in laying blame, that they can't figure out that they can just change their own build to counter. Here's an idea. Everyone knows that A2B is one of the current FOTM. So if you are building a premade, you can easily build some sort of counter since you will run into at least one A2B ship.
Quite a few of us. And you know what? FAW, power drain mechanics, or some of the other facets of power creep may actually need to be looked at again, but the way the OP is going about things just turns people off -- players and devs alike. I understand English may not be his first language but there are plenty of other people in that situation who don't come across as raving maniacs, hell, I think most of them come across as highly intelligent. If he wants to be taken seriously, the OP needs to learn to communicate like an adult.
In terms of FAW I'll just reiterate a couple of counter points:
1. Some groups have already had success in countering FAW heavy teams, usually relying on bringing huge healing and the occasional engineer. Scramble and GW are other potential counters.
2. The scaling damage resistance passive coming with the sphere reputation system is a significant counter to sustained damage, and should probably be tested before considering further balance changes.
You do realise Star citizen is so blatantly pay to win. Their 5000 USD packages gives you all their shiny new and more ships with lifetime insurance which you can't get with the lesser packages.
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
That easiness of use faw boats have can be decptive though. Positioning is key, and combined with holds those are very deadly especialy against single targets.
Most stand little chance to encirclement, so timing and a succesfull attemt to separate them is key.
Beating a faw boat especialy if the player isnt just smashing keys is very very hard and the old tactic of overwhelminf firepower stands a slim chance to bring such a target down.
Disabling, holds and positioning are way more important than just brute force.