Well i followed the discussion a bit, but there is one thing i do not realy understand.
Being a big cruiser fan in pve i used the dreaded faw+a2b builds alot, and while they are very very powerfull in stfs and minefield, i fail to see them being overly effectiv in pvp, not even in pvp light like kerrat.
I mean i can see them being a problem if you have 5 those cruisers against you , but 5 escorts or 5 drain sci boats would be equally had to kill.
However in an 1 vs 1 scenario, at least me cant seem to kill anything.
I do use fleet advanced 2acc 2 dmg phaser beams, the wide angle quantum, all those crit consoles, the accurate trait and all other starship traits including helmsman, skillpoints are in targeting, manouvers, energy weaspons, thrusters , engines, warpcor potential and loadws of points are as well in shield performance and so on.
I use the nukara console, asimilated module, tahyokinetic converter, zero point energy, plasmonic leach, 3 purple technitians, 1 exocomp, dem marion doff, eptw, demIII
but while i can survive for some time, when i try to hit something like a bop or risian corvette i sometimes do 18 or 40 dmg.
While I dont expect to win all the time or what , id would be nice to score a kill at least now and then. but i seam not to be able to punch hard enough to be much of a threat. even when i can keep the target in a good bradside position, fully buffed, i hardly scratch their paint.
I tried the fleet excelsior with tt1, faw2 and apo/ then tt1 ts2, faw3
then i tried the FACR with tt1 apb1 faw3 and ts1
I even tried out the sci oddy with tt1 apb1 faw3 tss:e, ts2
Nothing seems to go through.
What am i doing wrong? In pve gameplay my phasers hit for about 1200 unbuffed nearly constantly and go up to 3000 for singe hits while using faw, not counting crits wich sometimes spke into the 10k region.
Is resistance that high? I used to play more pvp about a year ago and i never had that much trouble killing a ship before.
Well i followed the discussion a bit, but there is one thing i do not realy understand.
Being a big cruiser fan in pve i used the dreaded faw+a2b builds alot, and while they are very very powerfull in stfs and minefield, i fail to see them being overly effectiv in pvp, not even in pvp light like kerrat.
I mean i can see them being a problem if you have 5 those cruisers against you , but 5 escorts or 5 drain sci boats would be equally had to kill.
However in an 1 vs 1 scenario, at least me cant seem to kill anything.
I do use fleet advanced 2acc 2 dmg phaser beams, the wide angle quantum, all those crit consoles, the accurate trait and all other starship traits including helmsman, skillpoints are in targeting, manouvers, energy weaspons, thrusters , engines, warpcor potential and loadws of points are as well in shield performance and so on.
I use the nukara console, asimilated module, tahyokinetic converter, zero point energy, plasmonic leach, 3 purple technitians, 1 exocomp, dem marion doff, eptw, demIII
but while i can survive for some time, when i try to hit something like a bop or risian corvette i sometimes do 18 or 40 dmg.
While I dont expect to win all the time or what , id would be nice to score a kill at least now and then. but i seam not to be able to punch hard enough to be much of a threat. even when i can keep the target in a good bradside position, fully buffed, i hardly scratch their paint.
I tried the fleet excelsior with tt1, faw2 and apo/ then tt1 ts2, faw3
then i tried the FACR with tt1 apb1 faw3 and ts1
I even tried out the sci oddy with tt1 apb1 faw3 tss:e, ts2
Nothing seems to go through.
What am i doing wrong? In pve gameplay my phasers hit for about 1200 unbuffed nearly constantly and go up to 3000 for singe hits while using faw, not counting crits wich sometimes spke into the 10k region.
Is resistance that high? I used to play more pvp about a year ago and i never had that much trouble killing a ship before.
Yes resistance can be that high. Also, range and defense matter too. Getting a quality hit rate w/o debuffing an escort can be tricky.
What others are doing is leveraging multiple hull resist debuffs w/procs such as Dem et al, shield bypassing via doffs&gear, and overcapping weapons' power.
In otherwords it's likely gear/doffs is effecting your damage output you. Also if you aren't already you may want to watch your target's buff cycle and take notice of when TT is going down to time APB.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Show me where I said its new.Every kirk wannabe wanted the support ships (cruisers) to be escorts (this is because theres no pve content for science and cruisers).Result ...everyone has the newly pimped epte that makes mines ,torps and most likely all healers useless (even maps are to small now ...who played before LoR knows how long it took to get on top of the map ...now in 2 minutes you have to tell everyone "get down" ) .Add apa strike like damage to faw and you have what you see today.
having something that's not good or broken is not a big deal but reading people defending all kinds of broken shets is really annoying.I simply cant keep up with the grind and the new sh!ts I have to buy to have even a mediocre match.
So will you be the first to stand up and say the way tactical captain abilities work is not good? I mean they buff the buffed damage, not base (from what VD showed in a post) which only adds to this vicious cycle of damage being too high so healing is buffed etc. It also makes them buff things a bit higher than perhaps intended thus leading to a complication of third paragraph.
As for the Captain Kirk aspect, sure a lot wanted the increased damage, personally I wanted them to either be relevant or to do damage through the offensive abilities they do have like EWP, DEM and aceton beam. Problem is make them good enough to be worth something in PvE and they're just gonna be called OP and indeed they would have to be considering how messed up the PvE enemies are.
The problem I see though is more that PvE centres around blow all this stuff up in a certain amount of time and so you either gimp all but the damage class ship or you have to make the others do damage but in different ways, like how a drainer will (try to) drain shields for a THY or TS. Unfortunately you run into the problem of what works well for the single ship is completely bouncing off the walls OP for 5 ships spamming it like it's going out of fashion.
The problem I see though is more that PvE centres around blow all this stuff up in a certain amount of time and so you either gimp all but the damage class ship or you have to make the others do damage but in different ways, like how a drainer will (try to) drain shields for a THY or TS. Unfortunately you run into the problem of what works well for the single ship is completely bouncing off the walls OP for 5 ships spamming it like it's going out of fashion.
There's just so many puzzle pieces - and - well, I think the devs are trying to give a boost here and there where it may be needed, without necessarily considering what the results would be from somebody else putting some of those puzzle pieces together on another build.
I keep looking at the images of stuff coming with S8...and...if not for the "saturation" aspect where you're going to have to make choices here and there, S8's kicking things up in a major way from an outside/unable to test/spreadsheet warrior point of view.
I mean, c'mon, those Protonic Polarons? 25% chance on a Crit to do additional Proton damage that ignores shields? Mixed in with the enhanced bleed we've alread got? Heck, those Auto Target Module doohickey Tac consoles? +Acc, +Proton Damage, and +Cannon or Beam Damage? Yeah, you take a hit to the amount of damage being done - but in a bleed world with some of those Protonic Polarons?
understand that PVP is a SANDBOX FEATURE of STO, it has no thought or consideration given to balance. Thousands and thousands of people on right now, every public instance populated: People qued for PVP? 8.
after the beam overload changes....how did everyone think that players who want to kill bad guys would respond?
right, find another way to kill bad guys.
turns out, faw and dem on a few players in a team is more powerful than a double tap. and even more frustrating to players receiving it.
its like the difference between getting popped in 3 seconds and you can do nothing about it, or know where it came from... vs getting melted in 7 seconds and you know exactly where it came from.
i gotta tell you...im melting stfs right now. actually the only reason im finishing my rep grinds. its that easy. and i hate stfs man. im pugging on elite and finishing most in under 10 minutes. everyone is faw dem'ing it. with a2b cruisers.
what did they think would happen? cryptic basically, by taking away the ability to spike kill for most, drove all tacs into suppression builds. and then handed us a shiny new cruiser that is perfect for the role.
simply astonishing really that people didnt know this was gonna happen. i saw it coming weeks ago.
have fun kill bad guys
-thrusters on full-
-acceptance-
I swear this man glows sometimes ... its biblical.
Escorts are dead.
Hardly seen any in PvP lately, its A2B DEM FAW spam boats. No skill, just mash spacebar.
Makes PvP really really irritatingly boring.
Shields gone (Whilst systematically ignoring all buffs in play), hull gone. Total time about 4 seconds. No matter what buff, no matter what counter.
All done by someone whos probably got their eyes closed it requires that little thought or skill.
Im actually glad they removed double tap, not that I ever used it. I dont like winning with broken mechanics but, this new run on stuff is just plain s**t.
Waytogo Cryptic. Youve ruined PvP further.
beam domination has been possible since the last FAW fix. the tholian rep console and the power drain aura are new, but they didnt push whats possible over some great big edge. its just that suddenly everyone decided to do it, when some STF stompers figured it out too
i still haven't run into a FAW boat that i was simply helpless against, or hit harder then mine does, they just do well because the skill required is so much lower then it is on a good spiking escort
Nearly every match Ive had the past 2 days has been that.
A couple of good PvPers as well mentioning something was off with it.
One last night, a premade of 5 scimitars, no skill required, just spammed. None of us needed tac teams because our shields were being totally ignored, hulls melting in 5 seconds flat no matter what you had running, all of it ignoring shields. Its lame, it really is lame.
Please refer to my signature for broken mechanics.
PvE? Doesnt count really. We all get insane crits in in PvE.
Ive had a wing overload on Alpha crit for 198k before.
Alpha BOs constantly critting at 60k plus.
My record pve quantum crit was just a little over 90k.
Its pve and you hit a npc with little or no resist or defense. Not that shocking.
Best quantum hit I have landed on a player mid 30s or something like that... hardly OP. Quantums are the hardest hitting standard torp in the game, and to hit a player like that you have to have them in a very bad position. Best quantum crit is still well under an average overload crit. These days.... the average quantum hit is not much more then the average faw beam strike. :P lol
Leave everything as it is, just make Beam Arrays strict broadside weapons.
BFAW boats are still very powerful, but now it won't be a silly 360 degree ball of death with more than 1 on a team. But even so, the ball of death tactic would still be feasible, it'd just require good flying and coordination (IE, effort more on par with escorts and sciboats) on part of the team, which is an incredibly reasonable thing to ask of these particular builds.
As it is now, its very true that its quite "easy" to run BFAW builds if you have the equipment to put you even remotely close to the typical fully built setup. Its easy because all you really do is react to whatever your opponent(s) are throwing at you. You don't have to expend any extra effort to not only react to your opponent but also keep up the pressure on them. This isn't so for an escort who has to constantly keep his arcs on target without popping, or a sci that has to keep up with healing his team and debuffing the right targets with the right timing.
I agree with a lot of what you say. I do have sympathy for the cannon folks. They spent lots of EC and likely zen to get a premium cannon build and now there seems to be a handout to beam builds. It is why I find it hard to invest real money into equipment with limited application duration.
The cannon people do have to realize that the game is not about a dps, heal, tank type model. Every ship should be as important, and since DPS is the only thing worth working toward in game it is going to be the handout to the ships hurting. If they want to preserve their cannon's dps supremacy they can't just fight against beams, but give an alternative to equalize cruisers and science ships. Keeping in mind what a tactical or science captain can do in anyship.
Tactical captain abilities are the problem with enhanced cruiser dps, but without the enhanced cruiser dps the engineer is useless.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
yup, and lets not ALL forget that a major change for cruiser came out and that's the commands,
and lets see here...
sci has commands, target this, target that,
cruisers have now commands, +power, +def, etc
whos left?
COMON guys, don't you think that escorts are going to get commands too?!?
bet they are going to be sweet, MY moneys on they already have in mind what 4 commands they will give escorts and even what they will try and time the release with (ships, expansion, etc)
I am not sure escorts will get commands, the commands are to make up for the reduced dps potential which is present unless you run a very specific Tactical captain A2B, DEM build. The escorts have damage on their side across the board, and damage is teh key statistic in this game. If your contribution is outside of dps, then you have to be exponentially higher than a decent dps dealer's support capacity.
PvE Jem'Hadar motto:Participation Ribbonsare life.
I am not sure escorts will get commands, the commands are to make up for the reduced dps potential which is present unless you run a very specific Tactical captain A2B, DEM build. The escorts have damage on their side across the board, and damage is teh key statistic in this game. If your contribution is outside of dps, then you have to be exponentially higher than a decent dps dealer's support capacity.
The in this line of thinking escorts should get special commands.
To... You know... Make them more defensive maybe. Or maybe have more Sci kick or something....
Oh wait I have an idea...
How about if you want to do damage get in a tactical ship.
If you want to heal then get in a defensive ship.
If you want to debuff and crowd crontrol get in a Sci heavy ship.
Dammit I swear trying to make every ship good at everything makes everyone not really good at anything. A ******n star fleet of jack of all trades.
The in this line of thinking escorts should get special commands.
To... You know... Make them more defensive maybe. Or maybe have more Sci kick or something....
Oh wait I have an idea...
How about if you want to do damage get in a tactical ship.
If you want to heal then get in a defensive ship.
If you want to debuff and crowd crontrol get in a Sci heavy ship.
Dammit I swear trying to make every ship good at everything makes everyone not really good at anything. A ******n star fleet of jack of all trades.
So er can escorts have that bonus 10% defence they have over every other ship type removed if they get commands to make them more defensive?
Escorts already get the bonus of not just dual but they then got dual heavy cannons right across the board. Then they also got the higher defense value too. Sure they have less hull than a cruiser but more than a sci ship and sometimes the worst shield mod but when 10% of all damage is completely mitigated as in it doesn't hit at all you realise just how much they already have going for them.
Then let's think of how any objective is completed, here's a task. Name the game modes where destroying your enemy is not the way to complete it. Then name the ones that do require you to destroy your enemy to win.
FAW is not a huge problem unless there are very few targets for a team full of FAW boats to hit, then you get smoked.
I notice several pre-mades using a ton of spam + photonic summons + pirates + dem, faw, apb, aux2bat boats. It's not very fun but hey that's just my opinion. It is very effective, though.
I wish that in this game, the things that become very effective would not always be the cheesiest and most annoying.
Well you can get the damage of a escort in cruiser ships that can tank and heal so why play escorts anymore?! I rarely do any more.
I always had tacs in cruisers here and there and was really successful at fighting escorts but pilots like yoda were very hard to fight always came down to the wire. Now i can sleep and kill escorts at the same time the easy button just got bigger!
mostly because it is only true for a handfull of ships. Most cruisers are still rubbish compared do basicly all escorts. Name one escort thats simply not capable of doing 1vs1 kills. MAybe, maybe the aqzuarius, but even that thing is extremly capable, its just most escorts are better.
On the cruiser side there are 3 ships: avenger, regent, excelsior, preferably in ther fleet versions.
And all of them have to be setup to pull of the 2atb,dem3,apb,faw combo and still be able to survive.
All those are relativly expensive to get, the technitian doffs and dem boff marion cost a fortune as do space fabrication doffs, not to mention all the mk12 purple stuff you need and some of the best consoles are lobi so extra costs over and over.
Not everyone does invest so much in a ship.
I think most players who want to do pvp in a cruiser basicly have not much other choice.
Resistances went through the roof so pressure damage was pointless, no 4 month ago most people agreed that beams are a wast of time, drained to much energy and didnt have the rate of fire to get enough crtitical hits to be worthwhile.
So what, the game changed, and while i agree that things go over the top with some ships, especialy the scimitars,most cruisers still are a wast of time if you want to have the slightest chance to make a kill.
And it doesnt always work very well if timing is incorrect and parts or rep traits are not top tier yet.
Faw is so easy to counter with aceton assimilator, feedback pulse, scramble sensors, subnuke. And all those cruisers get quite squishy if they are debuffed and held as most of them ditch apo or ph in favor of basic heals or enough debuffing potential via apb/apd.
I agree it is frustrating to fight 5 faw beamboats, but as is 5 escorts especialy if they can cloak for doing decloaking damage.
They took away double tapping, now people do the next best thing. It will change.
I remember when sci was totally op in some cases, the nerfed it into oblivion and it still hasent come back to even a comparabler standart apart from captains abilities.
Most sci ships are still either junk in todays dps centered environment or depend on so many things it needs a dedicated built to one role, wich is strategicly an invitation for desaster.
Good PVP is being able to take standard issue items into the match and still be able to do well based on skill alone. Anything beyond standard issue is to make it more fun.
When those items that go beyond standard issue start to define who wins and who loses, that is when PVP breaks down.
Good PVP is being able to take standard issue items into the match and still be able to do well based on skill alone. Anything beyond standard issue is to make it more fun.
When those items that go beyond standard issue start to define who wins and who loses, that is when PVP breaks down.
dont feel like making a new thread, but i haven't seen this commented on here yet. in the tribble patch notes they actually fix the KHG shield, so it cant proc more often then every 10 seconds. no multi proc stacking, invisible TRIBBLE holes for 7+ seconds anymore.
also fleet tac consoles in energy type flavors too, but still with crappy +25 damage.
dont feel like making a new thread, but i haven't seen this commented on here yet. in the tribble patch notes they actually fix the KHG shield, so it cant proc more often then every 10 seconds. no multi proc stacking, invisible TRIBBLE holes for 7+ seconds anymore.
also fleet tac consoles in energy type flavors too, but still with crappy +25 damage.
But they don't mention if the energy specific consoles will have crtd/crth bonus, I suspect they will otherwise you can buy the MKXII blue consoles at a snip
Now found frequenting MWO short term and then Star Citizen long term. Raged Quit PVP long ago
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
Comments
Being a big cruiser fan in pve i used the dreaded faw+a2b builds alot, and while they are very very powerfull in stfs and minefield, i fail to see them being overly effectiv in pvp, not even in pvp light like kerrat.
I mean i can see them being a problem if you have 5 those cruisers against you , but 5 escorts or 5 drain sci boats would be equally had to kill.
However in an 1 vs 1 scenario, at least me cant seem to kill anything.
I do use fleet advanced 2acc 2 dmg phaser beams, the wide angle quantum, all those crit consoles, the accurate trait and all other starship traits including helmsman, skillpoints are in targeting, manouvers, energy weaspons, thrusters , engines, warpcor potential and loadws of points are as well in shield performance and so on.
I use the nukara console, asimilated module, tahyokinetic converter, zero point energy, plasmonic leach, 3 purple technitians, 1 exocomp, dem marion doff, eptw, demIII
but while i can survive for some time, when i try to hit something like a bop or risian corvette i sometimes do 18 or 40 dmg.
While I dont expect to win all the time or what , id would be nice to score a kill at least now and then. but i seam not to be able to punch hard enough to be much of a threat. even when i can keep the target in a good bradside position, fully buffed, i hardly scratch their paint.
I tried the fleet excelsior with tt1, faw2 and apo/ then tt1 ts2, faw3
then i tried the FACR with tt1 apb1 faw3 and ts1
I even tried out the sci oddy with tt1 apb1 faw3 tss:e, ts2
Nothing seems to go through.
What am i doing wrong? In pve gameplay my phasers hit for about 1200 unbuffed nearly constantly and go up to 3000 for singe hits while using faw, not counting crits wich sometimes spke into the 10k region.
Is resistance that high? I used to play more pvp about a year ago and i never had that much trouble killing a ship before.
Yes resistance can be that high. Also, range and defense matter too. Getting a quality hit rate w/o debuffing an escort can be tricky.
What others are doing is leveraging multiple hull resist debuffs w/procs such as Dem et al, shield bypassing via doffs&gear, and overcapping weapons' power.
In otherwords it's likely gear/doffs is effecting your damage output you. Also if you aren't already you may want to watch your target's buff cycle and take notice of when TT is going down to time APB.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
So will you be the first to stand up and say the way tactical captain abilities work is not good? I mean they buff the buffed damage, not base (from what VD showed in a post) which only adds to this vicious cycle of damage being too high so healing is buffed etc. It also makes them buff things a bit higher than perhaps intended thus leading to a complication of third paragraph.
As for the Captain Kirk aspect, sure a lot wanted the increased damage, personally I wanted them to either be relevant or to do damage through the offensive abilities they do have like EWP, DEM and aceton beam. Problem is make them good enough to be worth something in PvE and they're just gonna be called OP and indeed they would have to be considering how messed up the PvE enemies are.
The problem I see though is more that PvE centres around blow all this stuff up in a certain amount of time and so you either gimp all but the damage class ship or you have to make the others do damage but in different ways, like how a drainer will (try to) drain shields for a THY or TS. Unfortunately you run into the problem of what works well for the single ship is completely bouncing off the walls OP for 5 ships spamming it like it's going out of fashion.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
There's just so many puzzle pieces - and - well, I think the devs are trying to give a boost here and there where it may be needed, without necessarily considering what the results would be from somebody else putting some of those puzzle pieces together on another build.
I keep looking at the images of stuff coming with S8...and...if not for the "saturation" aspect where you're going to have to make choices here and there, S8's kicking things up in a major way from an outside/unable to test/spreadsheet warrior point of view.
I mean, c'mon, those Protonic Polarons? 25% chance on a Crit to do additional Proton damage that ignores shields? Mixed in with the enhanced bleed we've alread got? Heck, those Auto Target Module doohickey Tac consoles? +Acc, +Proton Damage, and +Cannon or Beam Damage? Yeah, you take a hit to the amount of damage being done - but in a bleed world with some of those Protonic Polarons?
Meh, Doom...I dare say?
... i'm not a fan of it u know
For Pve.
understand that PVP is a SANDBOX FEATURE of STO, it has no thought or consideration given to balance. Thousands and thousands of people on right now, every public instance populated: People qued for PVP? 8.
Coles Notes: Cryptic Doesent Care About PVP.
QFT
problem is Geko hasn't looked at the code in a long time, and based on his first hand observations everything is fine.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
daFAWg you FAW?!
I swear this man glows sometimes ... its biblical.
Escorts are dead.
Hardly seen any in PvP lately, its A2B DEM FAW spam boats. No skill, just mash spacebar.
Makes PvP really really irritatingly boring.
Shields gone (Whilst systematically ignoring all buffs in play), hull gone. Total time about 4 seconds. No matter what buff, no matter what counter.
All done by someone whos probably got their eyes closed it requires that little thought or skill.
Im actually glad they removed double tap, not that I ever used it. I dont like winning with broken mechanics but, this new run on stuff is just plain s**t.
Waytogo Cryptic. Youve ruined PvP further.
i still haven't run into a FAW boat that i was simply helpless against, or hit harder then mine does, they just do well because the skill required is so much lower then it is on a good spiking escort
A couple of good PvPers as well mentioning something was off with it.
One last night, a premade of 5 scimitars, no skill required, just spammed. None of us needed tac teams because our shields were being totally ignored, hulls melting in 5 seconds flat no matter what you had running, all of it ignoring shields. Its lame, it really is lame.
PvE? Doesnt count really. We all get insane crits in in PvE.
Ive had a wing overload on Alpha crit for 198k before.
Alpha BOs constantly critting at 60k plus.
Its pve and you hit a npc with little or no resist or defense. Not that shocking.
Best quantum hit I have landed on a player mid 30s or something like that... hardly OP. Quantums are the hardest hitting standard torp in the game, and to hit a player like that you have to have them in a very bad position. Best quantum crit is still well under an average overload crit. These days.... the average quantum hit is not much more then the average faw beam strike. :P lol
:cool:
Leave everything as it is, just make Beam Arrays strict broadside weapons.
BFAW boats are still very powerful, but now it won't be a silly 360 degree ball of death with more than 1 on a team. But even so, the ball of death tactic would still be feasible, it'd just require good flying and coordination (IE, effort more on par with escorts and sciboats) on part of the team, which is an incredibly reasonable thing to ask of these particular builds.
As it is now, its very true that its quite "easy" to run BFAW builds if you have the equipment to put you even remotely close to the typical fully built setup. Its easy because all you really do is react to whatever your opponent(s) are throwing at you. You don't have to expend any extra effort to not only react to your opponent but also keep up the pressure on them. This isn't so for an escort who has to constantly keep his arcs on target without popping, or a sci that has to keep up with healing his team and debuffing the right targets with the right timing.
I agree with a lot of what you say. I do have sympathy for the cannon folks. They spent lots of EC and likely zen to get a premium cannon build and now there seems to be a handout to beam builds. It is why I find it hard to invest real money into equipment with limited application duration.
The cannon people do have to realize that the game is not about a dps, heal, tank type model. Every ship should be as important, and since DPS is the only thing worth working toward in game it is going to be the handout to the ships hurting. If they want to preserve their cannon's dps supremacy they can't just fight against beams, but give an alternative to equalize cruisers and science ships. Keeping in mind what a tactical or science captain can do in anyship.
Tactical captain abilities are the problem with enhanced cruiser dps, but without the enhanced cruiser dps the engineer is useless.
I am not sure escorts will get commands, the commands are to make up for the reduced dps potential which is present unless you run a very specific Tactical captain A2B, DEM build. The escorts have damage on their side across the board, and damage is teh key statistic in this game. If your contribution is outside of dps, then you have to be exponentially higher than a decent dps dealer's support capacity.
The in this line of thinking escorts should get special commands.
To... You know... Make them more defensive maybe. Or maybe have more Sci kick or something....
Oh wait I have an idea...
How about if you want to do damage get in a tactical ship.
If you want to heal then get in a defensive ship.
If you want to debuff and crowd crontrol get in a Sci heavy ship.
Dammit I swear trying to make every ship good at everything makes everyone not really good at anything. A ******n star fleet of jack of all trades.
So er can escorts have that bonus 10% defence they have over every other ship type removed if they get commands to make them more defensive?
Escorts already get the bonus of not just dual but they then got dual heavy cannons right across the board. Then they also got the higher defense value too. Sure they have less hull than a cruiser but more than a sci ship and sometimes the worst shield mod but when 10% of all damage is completely mitigated as in it doesn't hit at all you realise just how much they already have going for them.
Then let's think of how any objective is completed, here's a task. Name the game modes where destroying your enemy is not the way to complete it. Then name the ones that do require you to destroy your enemy to win.
It is through repetition that we learn our weakness.
A master with a stone is better than a novice with a sword.
Has damage got out of control?
This is the last thing I will post.
I notice several pre-mades using a ton of spam + photonic summons + pirates + dem, faw, apb, aux2bat boats. It's not very fun but hey that's just my opinion. It is very effective, though.
I wish that in this game, the things that become very effective would not always be the cheesiest and most annoying.
I always had tacs in cruisers here and there and was really successful at fighting escorts but pilots like yoda were very hard to fight always came down to the wire. Now i can sleep and kill escorts at the same time the easy button just got bigger!
On the cruiser side there are 3 ships: avenger, regent, excelsior, preferably in ther fleet versions.
And all of them have to be setup to pull of the 2atb,dem3,apb,faw combo and still be able to survive.
All those are relativly expensive to get, the technitian doffs and dem boff marion cost a fortune as do space fabrication doffs, not to mention all the mk12 purple stuff you need and some of the best consoles are lobi so extra costs over and over.
Not everyone does invest so much in a ship.
I think most players who want to do pvp in a cruiser basicly have not much other choice.
Resistances went through the roof so pressure damage was pointless, no 4 month ago most people agreed that beams are a wast of time, drained to much energy and didnt have the rate of fire to get enough crtitical hits to be worthwhile.
So what, the game changed, and while i agree that things go over the top with some ships, especialy the scimitars,most cruisers still are a wast of time if you want to have the slightest chance to make a kill.
And it doesnt always work very well if timing is incorrect and parts or rep traits are not top tier yet.
Faw is so easy to counter with aceton assimilator, feedback pulse, scramble sensors, subnuke. And all those cruisers get quite squishy if they are debuffed and held as most of them ditch apo or ph in favor of basic heals or enough debuffing potential via apb/apd.
I agree it is frustrating to fight 5 faw beamboats, but as is 5 escorts especialy if they can cloak for doing decloaking damage.
They took away double tapping, now people do the next best thing. It will change.
I remember when sci was totally op in some cases, the nerfed it into oblivion and it still hasent come back to even a comparabler standart apart from captains abilities.
Most sci ships are still either junk in todays dps centered environment or depend on so many things it needs a dedicated built to one role, wich is strategicly an invitation for desaster.
It's PVP, someone's got to die.
So if i kill someone with my warp core breach, do you want to nerf warp cores too? good luck travelling at sub light speeds in space
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)
When those items that go beyond standard issue start to define who wins and who loses, that is when PVP breaks down.
At least thats how it should be anyway.
How the fawk does this relate to the topic?
how about this for off topic?
dont feel like making a new thread, but i haven't seen this commented on here yet. in the tribble patch notes they actually fix the KHG shield, so it cant proc more often then every 10 seconds. no multi proc stacking, invisible TRIBBLE holes for 7+ seconds anymore.
also fleet tac consoles in energy type flavors too, but still with crappy +25 damage.
But they don't mention if the energy specific consoles will have crtd/crth bonus, I suspect they will otherwise you can buy the MKXII blue consoles at a snip
- Gohan (House of Beautiful /Sad Pandas)