Ive seen a few Mentions about the Dyson Sphere. Are you considering putting that into sto?. That Episode should have been a Mini Series in Next gen, instead of one GREAT, but Short Episode. There is so much more i wanted to learn about Dyson Sphere:)
As for Voy Races, The Krenim are a Fo that really made Voyager Awesome and i would love to face them off in a Temporal Battle.
I think part of the reason why I voted Krenim is not for them to be a foe...but to be an ally of the Federation.
In light of that, I also remodel my idea involving the Vaduwaar...make them allies to the Romulan Republic as both no longer have worlds to call home and both could try to work together.
I don't think the Vidiians should be an enemy group. At least not for federation characters. In voyager season 5 episode 20 the Think Tank claimed to have cured the Vidiian phaige and that "you would hardly recognize them". Also the Vidiians themselves stated that before the phaige their society was much like the federation. As for Kes, she must be long dead of old age. Most of her race only live to be 9 years old, with the exception of those under the care of the caretakers mate who live to be 20 years old. The last time we saw Kes was an old woman although very powerful, but that was well over 20 years in STOs past.
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I thought of this idea for the Delta quadrant when STO first came out.
But my idea is slightly different. I would like to see you as a captain from the
Alpha quadrant literally work your way across the stars mapping new worlds
and species. Along the way run into trouble but "Can anyone remember
when we used to be explorers?" As Captain Picard said once.
Mapping the stars and running into trouble along the way or making allies all the while
uncovering the fog of space so to speak is one thing this game is lacking. Everything
is already revealed. I know that eventually it would all be revealed as we played but
it could last a long time depending on the developers.
Nah, the Krenim were a really cool race concept and the Temporal weapon ship was awe inspiringly powerful.
That being said, I voted Vidiian simply because I'd love to see where their story picks up from here.
do we need another massive ship though ? , the size of some ships are just to big tbh (being blocked by a massive rom ship is getting beyond a joke now lol)
Once the antagonist's motivational trigger disappeared, the main reason for building the ship had also vanished. Even if someone were to discover Annorax's plans, the confrontation between Voyager and the time-ship would not historically exist. According to the new timeline, created by destroying the time-ship, Janeway agreed to take her ship around Krenim space.
Second, when the time-ship was originally created, Annorax was only interested in altering domestic systems. Earth was not even in the equation, for it existed outside of what would be affected by a temporal incursion.
Finally, Annorax's motivation was all about love. Although Annorax was going about things the wrong way, his intentions were based upon his love for his people. Annorax wanted everything to be perfect, so that he can bring back his wife and species.
I do not see how an anti-Earth philosophy fits into the spectrum. If the Federation made it into the Delta Quadrant, within the 25th century, I think the Krenim would become one of our strongest allies. The Krenim were such a peaceful species.
I would create a storyline similar to:
Federation, Krenim (Temporal Tech), and Voth (Came home to help strengthen Earth's defenses.)
-versus-
KDF (Misled by Iconians), Iconian (Temporal Tech), & Romulan (Misled by Iconians)
do we need another massive ship though ? , the size of some ships are just to big tbh (being blocked by a massive rom ship is getting beyond a joke now lol)
Who cares? It's about whether it'd be fun. "need" doesn't really factor into the equation.
Precisely. The whole reason for the creation of that ship, the catalyst if you will, was the fact that his wife was killed. And he obsessed over trying to undo what happened to her. The locke of hair, in that stasis pyramid on his desk, indicates all of that. That's the crux. The last piece of his wife. Once that stasis pyramid was broken, during the attack, she ceased to exist completely.
And yes, its quite possible that she might be killed again, now that everything has been corrected; call it wishful thinking, but i don't think that will happen. The fact that he left his work on his desk to spend time with her (something which he didn't do before in the now obliterated 'bubble' timeline) indicates a scenario where she will very likely live a long and happy life with him.
The super-ironic twist to Year of Hell was that Annorax accidentally killed his wife using the weapon ship. When the ship erased itself from existence, it undid his wife's death.... or lack of being born rather. She "died" when Annorax accidentally erased the source of a vaccine from history and most of the Krenim race got wiped out by a plague, including his wife's ancestors.
Anyways, my ranking of the six races from the poll is:
1: Vidiian
2: Krenim
3: Malon
4: Kazon
5: Devore
6: Heirarchy
Have to agree with those suggesting the Vaadwaur, they were very under-utilised in Dragon's Teeth and you have a perfect 'in-story' to get to the Delta Quadrant with their sub space corridors, which technically means you could bring back any type of species from the Delta Quadrant, as whilst travelling through the corridor in the Delta Quadrant, you could be expelled into different parts of it. I think that whilst I'd love to pound some (and see some!) Kazon Predator class vessels, not sure they would make the best villian in terms of cleverness/strength, although you do have the chance to reintroduce Seska's son (without the royalty issues right?). I'd hazard a guess that given the Vidiians were desperate, in better times they maybe aligned with the Federation. The Devore with the right plotlines would probably make the most interesting villian, although if we had our own mini in game Year of Hell via the Krenim I wouldn't complain. Whilst you either love or hate Voyager, at least IMO it has some decent villian species of the week :-)
Honestly, not feeling excited about our options for races, really kind of underwhelming...more specifically, yet another race with the temporal plot device.
But I guess we make due with what is given to us because of what was provided in the show.
Have to agree with those suggesting the Vaadwaur, they were very under-utilised in Dragon's Teeth and you have a perfect 'in-story' to get to the Delta Quadrant with their sub space corridors, which technically means you could bring back any type of species from the Delta Quadrant, as whilst travelling through the corridor in the Delta Quadrant, you could be expelled into different parts of it. I think that whilst I'd love to pound some (and see some!) Kazon Predator class vessels, not sure they would make the best villian in terms of cleverness/strength, although you do have the chance to reintroduce Seska's son (without the royalty issues right?). I'd hazard a guess that given the Vidiians were desperate, in better times they maybe aligned with the Federation. The Devore with the right plotlines would probably make the most interesting villian, although if we had our own mini in game Year of Hell via the Krenim I wouldn't complain. Whilst you either love or hate Voyager, at least IMO it has some decent villian species of the week :-)
Yeah, how did the Vaadwaur and the Under-corridors not end up as an option?
I want The Vidiian, Cryptic could have done a new Halloween episode where a crazy Vidiian kills one of my crew, and wear theirs face, then tells me I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti.
Of the choices presented, the Krenim is the most interesting.
As to the fact that Dan is talking about players being able to fly a Borg Cube ...
That might be the stupidest idea I have ever heard for this game.
NO.
Just No.
For many reasons.
Far too many other cool ways to take this game. Too many other races to explore and play with. Please Please Please don't make flyable Borg Ships, with the exception of maybe using one in a mission where it fits the story. Flyable Borg ships would lead to warping in to an Earth Spacedock surrounded by Borg Ships. or a Borg Squad above the First City. The image is just ridiculous.
This one time they made Fonzie jump his motorcycle over some sharks ...
As to the fact that Dan is talking about players being able to fly a Borg Cube ...
That might be the stupidest idea I have ever heard for this game.
NO.
Just No.
For many reasons.
Far too many other cool ways to take this game. Too many other races to explore and play with. Please Please Please don't make flyable Borg Ships, with the exception of maybe using one in a mission where it fits the story. Flyable Borg ships would lead to warping in to an Earth Spacedock surrounded by Borg Ships. or a Borg Squad above the First City. The image is just ridiculous.
This one time they made Fonzie jump his motorcycle over some sharks ...
Peace, Love and Late Summer Heatwaves
- John
My sentiments exactly. I really and sincerelly hope that they come to their senses and throw this ridiculous idea in the trash can. This has the potential to make a complete joke out of STO and not in a funny way.
There are so much options for directions, species, stories, conflicts, etc. in STO. There is so much potential in the Trek universe to make a fun and engaging game rather than doing this.
Please devs, don't trash STO in such a cheap way!
I also opt out for giving players access to flying Borg ships. I mean: a Cube is run by - I don't know - 4000(?) Borg linked via a collective. How could a player and his crew ever get to fly these monsters of a ship?
To the Delta Quadrant plot:
The player could somehow get transported to the delta quadrant, and - once there - just get to use the knowledge of 2409. There must be any information about the transwarp gates in the ships computer. So the whole plot of episodes could be about finding allies, a location and the resources to build a gate leading to the one at home.
There's even room for completely different ways of completing this throughout the existing factions: feds use diplomacy and exploration, klingons pure force and firepower, romulans more subterfuge and intrigue.
I really don't see problems of a story driven plot. For me it always felt like being the one captain to be involved in those heroic missions, just like the Enterprise and its crew. Me and my crew are the heroes, not 10.000 captains swarming around.
After establishing a fixed connection, whatever it looks like, the whole
thousands upon thousands of starships suddenly showing up on the other side of the galaxy
thing shouldn't be a problem anymore and then there could be a more "adventure-zone"-like approach to it.
“Change is the essential process of all existence.” – Spock
Sorry, I got excited at seeing more votes for it. Come on guys, what's cooler than toxic waste ships that have cool counter-measures?! NOTHING! nothing!!! :P
Well if the Malon don't win the vote, I'm going to use my freighter as a Malon ship, and add every special console onto it!! hah!! take that!
P.S. Hey if you want to use playable Borg ships you can play Star Trek Legacy. We still have a huge mod community for it!
We should have a battle simulator like Star Trek Bridge commander has, where you can test any ship, not sure why we won't have that, we have holodecks right?
I'm loving the Vaadwaur as a means to utilize all the delta quadrant species... the subspace corridors are the perfect means to this end. It also means you can utilize a map that actually fits the story.
- Which brings me to a sensitive point about canon. There are conflicting sources about whether the delta quadrant borders the alpha or beta quadrants. I have seen "official" sources that swap the location of gamma and delta on the other side of galactic centre. Dan mentioned something about Beta quadrant factions in the way.... so, please, please review the ST:Voyager episode where the doctor travels to the alpha quadrant for the first time and saves the USS Prometheus. Notice that between the map displayed in the show and the dialogue, that it is clear that the alpha quadrant and the delta quadrant border each other. It is alpha and gamma which are kitty-corner to each other (with the dominion nearer the beta quadrant than the delta). This is the only configuration that makes voyager's journey make any sense. Otherwise it would have been shorter to travel towards the bajoran wormhole to get back home!
In terms of the post about Star Trek voyager, I'd personally love a mission that chucked you across the quadrant with dynamic and different species to encounter on the way home. Although this would be a difficult challenge it would be a lot of fun.
The quantum slip stream drive or transwarp were the top speed methods voyager used to get home, so that problem is kinda eliminated... dependent on how long it actually would take. In voyager it seemed that (i think) 2 days at transwarp burned 20,000 light years and with it only being 75,000 light years away it would seem doable. Yay more Voyager!
I also opt out for giving players access to flying Borg ships. I mean: a Cube is run by - I don't know - 4000(?) Borg linked via a collective. How could a player and his crew ever get to fly these monsters of a ship?
To the Delta Quadrant plot:
The player could somehow get transported to the delta quadrant, and - once there - just get to use the knowledge of 2409. There must be any information about the transwarp gates in the ships computer. So the whole plot of episodes could be about finding allies, a location and the resources to build a gate leading to the one at home.
There's even room for completely different ways of completing this throughout the existing factions: feds use diplomacy and exploration, klingons pure force and firepower, romulans more subterfuge and intrigue.
I really don't see problems of a story driven plot. For me it always felt like being the one captain to be involved in those heroic missions, just like the Enterprise and its crew. Me and my crew are the heroes, not 10.000 captains swarming around.
After establishing a fixed connection, whatever it looks like, the whole
thing shouldn't be a problem anymore and then there could be a more "adventure-zone"-like approach to it.
Or a faction from the Delta quadrant has found their own transwarp gate that leads to the Beta quadrant. They use this as a chance to explore the other quadrants when they have a run in with Feds and Klinks mid battle and whipe the floor with both factions. Your faction alerts you of the attack and that the energy signature of the vessel matches those seen by Voyager from when it was in the Delta quadrant. The missions from there would be about traveling to the Delta quadrant, learning about the aggressors, gaining favors with specific factions, and establihing a presence in the Delta quadrant.
Players go through transwarp conduits AND whup on Borg cubes all the time. "Taking the fight to the Collective" would be an obvious and simple excuse to get the players in the Delta Quadrant.
They can even stick an Iconian gate in there if they want that storyline to be continued.
Shame the Vaadwaur weren't an option, they were one of the best VOY species imo, could have been some good story content involving them.
I agree it's far enough along they'd have had time to rebuild. They also have Iconian parallels.
Imo, there's been way too much fubaring the IP w/time travel and has been a big writer's crutch since Enterprise. So, leave all time travel out.
KDF splinter society is an easy draw for the KDF faction.
The episode w/the Romulan brought into the future from the past is another potential link for a non-Fed faction.
The space elves would be ok if toons had built in shelf life before they died.
But, really the big thing is they could introduce new species and systems since Voyager really was the tip of the iceburg. I'd much rather they did that after wrapping up storylines.
Instead I think we'll just end up w/more grind maps ...
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Leave the freaking Krenim alone. I hate time travel on general principles because it always makes my head hurt. There are no exceptions apart from Doctor Who, and then only because the show is goofy enough already that I can accept it basically runs on nonsensoleum.
I vote the Vidiians because I liked the moral ambiguity and exploration of what a formerly great society would do in the face of extinction. They do what they have to to survive against a plague that is slowly killing their species. Some of them hate harvesting organs from the living and only go after the dead. Others use slave labor and kidnap the living and process them into spare body parts when they can't work anymore. And they shot up Neelix on their first appearance, which makes them ok in my book.
That's another thing. I don't mind including the Talaxians but TRIBBLE Neelix. At best he's annoying, at worst that petaQ is responsible for getting multiple crew killed or nearly so, even nearly destroying the ship with his cooking once. Don't even mention him, Cryptic, or at the very least kill him off in some amusing way five minutes in.
As for the Kazon, they're useless idiots who can't seem to realize that it's easier to mine water from comets and other space objects than be space gangsters and steal it from planets. Even the Borg think they're morons: I recall Seven of Nine remarking that assimilating them would weaken the Collective.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
For starters with the science thing colonelmarik spoke of, Voyager was the show that gave us the utter bollocking stupidity of putting a crack in an event horizon. For the uninitiated, the event horizon is the distance from the black hole at which not even light can escape. It is not a physical object but a mathematically defined perimeter, therefore it is utterly impossible to put a hole in it no matter what technobabble you use. As SF Debris puts it in his review of that episode, escaping an event horizon by putting a hole in it is equivalent to saying that you can put a hole in the range you can travel on a tank of gas and therefore go further.
I really freaking prefer Deep Space Nine to Voyager. Character and story development instead of technobabble, overuse of time travel, and TRIBBLE-TRIBBLE of the Prime Directive.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
When you say phenomenological, are you talking Meisner? That's my training although there's a temptation with sci fi to ham it up and directors of a certain age or hammy preference seem prone to considering a Meisner take too subdued or a failure and will often push a trained actor until they wind up doing a parody of Stanislavski.
And I think a lot of strong Stanislavski actors don't hit that fever pitched point of parody you're talking about, that accidentally Brechtian point where the actor seems hyper aware that they're playing a role.
And it also slides that way when scripts get loaded with technobabble.
I've never quite placed what Levar Burton does with technobabble. I never for a second buy his delivery. He sounds like he's narrating it. But his delivery is so pleasant that it's cal ing to listen too. He has a charm that overrides his sometimes dd acting style.
But it doesn't work in Voyager as well or Enterprise. Maybe because you can sense the actors fumbling for sense memory or character motivation when the type of technobabble in the scripts seems almost engineered to combat that approach.
In contrast with DS9, where I could imagine Sisko having a line that, instead of skewing towards technical language, skew poetic in the extreme. "The warp engines are so HOT, you could fry an egg on them. Stop. Hear that SIZZLE." That kind of thing. And the actors there could still go Stanislavski but the scripts catered to it better.
For starters with the science thing colonelmarik spoke of, Voyager was the show that gave us the utter bollocking stupidity of putting a crack in an event horizon. For the uninitiated, the event horizon is the distance from the black hole at which not even light can escape. It is not a physical object but a mathematically defined perimeter, therefore it is utterly impossible to put a hole in it no matter what technobabble you use. As SF Debris puts it in his review of that episode, escaping an event horizon by putting a hole in it is equivalent to saying that you can put a hole in the range you can travel on a tank of gas and therefore go further.
And even worse, IMO, is the fact that the "crack" was unnecessary. An event horizon exists because beyond that point, the escape velocity of the singularity is greater than the speed of light. You know what's really good at exceeding the speed of light? A frakking Intrepid-class starship! All they needed to do was hit the warp drive, and they'd be out of there...
This thread is now so long forgive me if I repeat ideas already mentioned. They are included for completeness. That being said... incoming wall o' text.
1. Getting to the DQ:
a. My favorite idea is that we essentially reverse the events of "Endgame" (VOY) by taking over parts of the Borg transwarp network. There were six hubs before the episode, and more may have been constructed after. This propels the conflict against the Borg forward within the story while opening the Delta Quadrant up. In my opinion this is best executed as a pre-launch episode where players take over a new Borg conduit, or a new transwarp gate is constructed to stabilize an opening from one of the Alpha Quadrant exits from the network. Either way players can defend new construction or take over old and then perhaps take over relay stations to access the DQ. This will put the Borg on the defensive and escalate the conflict, and both Feds and Klingons will need to gather DQ resources to keep the pressure on. Both factions may arrive together via Task Force Omega cooperation or separately, but the result likely would be the same.
b. In the episode "The Nth Degree" (THG) Barclay encounters an alien probe and temporarily gains the technical knowledge of the Cytherian civilization. While he loses this knowledge by the end of the episode, sensor readings of the event remain and the Cytherians share (somewhat unspecified) knowledge with the Enterprise which Picard muses "will take our scholars decades to examine." While introducing the full capacity to travel halfway across the galaxy immediately is not necessary, knowledge gained from this event may allow a number of advances in travel technology especially since it is not warp-based. (credit to my fleet buddy Josh for reminding me of the Cytherians)
c. In possible conjunction with the above idea or separately the subspace corridors used by the Vaadwaur in the episode "Dragon's Teeth" (VOY) are a consideration. While they may not extend into known space, it is possible. The Vaadwaur may not have explored the entirety of this network, and as a natural phenomena it may have altered over time.
d. The wormhole in "Eye of the Needle" (VOY) was stable and could potentially be tinkered wit. It's exit was in Romulan space which would be accessible to both factions now. Said wormhole was also temporally out of touch at both ends, but that could also be a plot point worthy of an episode.
e. The wormhole in "The Price" (TNG) and "False Profits" (VOY) was destabilized during the latter episode, but may have been re-stabilized (intentionally or naturally) by the current time. Discovery of the natural phenomenon or attempts to tame the wormhole may make a decent story.
f. Similar to my suggestion with the Borg, an Iconian gateway could be utilized. They are already in game and again you can conjoin the stories to some extent, allowing for that increased level of depth.
2. New Factions:
I think the concept of a new faction in the Delta Quadrant is ultimately self-defeating. The Romulans are not a fully separate faction so what species in the DQ merits such a presence? Why make a totally separate and segregated experience? I think it may be far more practical from a design perspective to make the DQ in play for the Federation and Klingons for the following reasons:
a. The Borg conflict needs some movement story-wise. Even if my first idea is not used to access the Delta Quadrant, the fight needs to go to them at some point. This would escalate the conflict in the story and provide payoff to players for previous efforts.
b. The DQ is a fractured place ripe for conquest by the Klingons and thus forcing the Federation to follow suit (via diplomacy of course). Again they will need more resources to bring the fight to the Borg.
c. Since none of the DQ powers really have a deep and multi-racial cast, one would have to be created, and that requires a lot of effort to create a faction that will never have the depth of story that the Federation or Klingons have.
d. Incorporation of DQ races could still include new leveling content, and also provide a simple concept to fuel the story "How do these people end up with whichever side?" Said content may also be available in part to Federation and Klingon players to provide more varied leveling content or simply more episodes to complete.
The above ideas all revolve around convergence. Writing a story about a race that appears in one or two episodes (few appear in more than that) is going to be a lot easier when they interact with the more well-known aspects of the Star Trek franchise. Tying it all together to create a larger plot web will deepen the experience.
3. Various ideas for the inclusion of DQ races in no particular order:
a. Borg: The most powerful force within the DQ for certain. Their threat should loom overhead, but not always be directly mentioned. They can be used to motivate various actions by other races within the story. Shoehorning them in is a mistake to avoid though as they should not be the one and only motivation for all things. Like any "villain" they need to be used delicately.
b. Undine: They may still retain a presence in the DQ and may also be an excellent source of action. They may find themselves conflicted in wanting to use other races against the Borg, but not have those races come out too strong to defeat. Walking that tightrope may lead to interesting plot developments.
c. Vaadwaur: While not used in more than one episode this race has story potential. Their surviving members were last seen fleeing into their underspace and in search of rebuilding their empire. As the scientist Gedrin states, both versions of their history as conquerors and explorers is true, and they may also provide more nuanced options for players whether they become playable or as NPCs.
d. Krenim: As the polls indicate people want them in-game. While a lot of this may be due to the want of a temporal ship that no longer exists in the story, it does not mean they cannot be more than that. Their Chroniton torpedo tech is already in the game and regardless of the temporal ship's erasure from history, it does not mean they are done meddling with temporal technology. Their use of such tech may bnring them into conflict with not only the players but the Tholians and could lead to mirror universe DQ content, which could prove interesting.
e. Talaxians: The Talaxian colony where Neelix ended up may provide a contact point for the federation if they travel to the DQ. They would make excellent candidates for Federation members of course and I suspect that is appealing to a number of players.
f. Vidiians: While the Phage was cured with a rather oblique comment in a later episode "Think Tank" (VOY), This may be an available plot point. The Phage was a very devastating disease that had a huge psychological effect for over two millennia and any cure to the disease likely involved genetic changes to the species which may have had unforseen side effects. The Think Tank liked solving problems but was notoriously amoral and may have failed to mention side effects which may also have provided another interesting problem to solve.
g. Kazon: While they did not work out too well in the show I find them a quite suitable candidate for Klingon conquest. They would have to be "convinced" by conquest I imagine, but would also fit right in once subdued. They also subjugate or raid other species, and may be a central part of Klingon conquest in the DQ if that plot point is used.
h. Voth: The Voth are slaves to doctrine where Voyager leaves off, but they may have undergone cultural changes by this point. Indeed they are possibly ripe for a civil war between fundamentalists and more progressive elements. Progressives may have cause to join the Federation while Fundamentalists remain hostile to all and particularly Humans.
i. Hirogen: Frankly the Hirogen offer little unless they undergo some cultural changes. They do have some similarities to the Klingons in that they may find working with the Empire offers the chance to test their skills and Klingons have great respect for hunting skills. On the other hand they may find Klingons the best prey. Hirogen society is fractured and decentralized so both may be true at the same time.
j. Devore: The Devore have little material to draw on. Their tech level is closer to the Federation but their hatred of telepaths makes them poor candidates to join either faction. They may be capable of prosecuting a crusade against telepaths especially if the Undine are revealed to be working among them. This could make them allies at times and enemies at others.
k. Ocampa: Since they have few if any holdings within the source material they are likely best used as a minor story species. Some may choose to live among the Federation but they may also be conquered by the Klingons, though they would not likely flourish under them. They may find themselves in the crosshairs of the Devore, or entwined in the psychic meddling of the Undine. Those on their home world may serve as a contested point if the Kazon join the Klingons and the Ocampa become Federation allies. Those cared for by Suspiria may have rejoined or at least reconnected with their home world.
l. The Dominion: As a major power within a neighboring quadrant, they too may wish to expand into the DQ. They may be conquering, they may be exploring, or both. The Gamma Quadrant would sensibly have more than just the one wormhole and it is possible they have access to one that goes to the DQ. Caution may be needed though as the Dominion represents in my opinion the most viable power to become another faction. It is also sensible that Borg threaten them as well. Jem'Hadar might make poor drones though unless the Borg can compensate for Ketracel addiction.
m. Last but not least... Liberated DQ Borg/Remnants of Unimatrix Zero: The only vastly multi-racial and potentially in-depth source for a new faction other than the Dominion. Again it could bring old content together with new, and also allow contact with the current factions via the transwarp network. If not included as a faction they certainly would be a result of the Feds and Klingons arriving in the DQ. There are many possibilities here and frankly many of them need not be mentioned, because this is the one potential faction that has significant source material.
EDIT:
n. Hierarchy and Malon: I forgot about them within a post where they appear on a poll, which I think reflects their ranking in most people's memories. The Malon are only known through their waste disposal specialists which while an important part of their existence, doesn't exactly tell us much about the rest of who they are. The Hierarchy is basically a comically overly complicated bureaucracy, It may be amusing to conquer them as Klingons and put them to work scrubbing conduits.
A quick survey of the previous 55 pages showed me that many forgot or just did not mentioned the other type of Borg seen in VOY: those who had been liberated from hive and who had been saved by imposing their will on cmdr. Chakotay (episode Unity). Though not enough for a major ally, they could be allys to any fraction in at least 1 or 2 episodes (preferably against the Borg). It could also be a chance to let Chakotay meet with Riley Frazier again...
The Vaadwaur could also be allys - to the Klingons. They could serve the same role the Cardassians filled when they joined the Dominion: secretly building up their own power and keep waiting for a weaknes in the hegemonial power to take them over!
In fact the Devore and the Krenim shared some characteristics: an empire to defend, an arrogant attitude, and a strong will to rule - espacially over minor races. Annorax with his time ship is the exception, but please remember, they have been obliterated from the timeline, so there should be no reason to reintroduce them.
An alternativeto the Krenim, for all of us who love to travel in time, could be the high technology race from the planet with the fast paced time from the episode Blink of an Eye. Let them develop the ability to travel in our time continuum via a time machine. Not only could they be some kind of ally - at least to the Federation - they could provide some highly trained scientist, too. On the other hand their planet could be the base in DQ where invited players could do their own scientific research.
One more empire in the DQ has been overlooked but may be good for a surprise: the insektoids from the episode The Swarm. Their agenda is known and with their technology they could be able to create some problems in space as well as in ground missions.
Comments
As for Voy Races, The Krenim are a Fo that really made Voyager Awesome and i would love to face them off in a Temporal Battle.
In light of that, I also remodel my idea involving the Vaduwaar...make them allies to the Romulan Republic as both no longer have worlds to call home and both could try to work together.
Devore Imperium and their anti-telepath solution/genocide.
Devore Imperium would be interesting enemy for the UFP since the UFP has telepath member worlds.
Like to see Devore Imperium vs telepath capable race Reman (which could draw in Romulans into the war).
But my idea is slightly different. I would like to see you as a captain from the
Alpha quadrant literally work your way across the stars mapping new worlds
and species. Along the way run into trouble but "Can anyone remember
when we used to be explorers?" As Captain Picard said once.
Mapping the stars and running into trouble along the way or making allies all the while
uncovering the fog of space so to speak is one thing this game is lacking. Everything
is already revealed. I know that eventually it would all be revealed as we played but
it could last a long time depending on the developers.
do we need another massive ship though ? , the size of some ships are just to big tbh (being blocked by a massive rom ship is getting beyond a joke now lol)
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Second, when the time-ship was originally created, Annorax was only interested in altering domestic systems. Earth was not even in the equation, for it existed outside of what would be affected by a temporal incursion.
Finally, Annorax's motivation was all about love. Although Annorax was going about things the wrong way, his intentions were based upon his love for his people. Annorax wanted everything to be perfect, so that he can bring back his wife and species.
I do not see how an anti-Earth philosophy fits into the spectrum. If the Federation made it into the Delta Quadrant, within the 25th century, I think the Krenim would become one of our strongest allies. The Krenim were such a peaceful species.
I would create a storyline similar to:
Federation, Krenim (Temporal Tech), and Voth (Came home to help strengthen Earth's defenses.)
-versus-
KDF (Misled by Iconians), Iconian (Temporal Tech), & Romulan (Misled by Iconians)
Anyways, my ranking of the six races from the poll is:
1: Vidiian
2: Krenim
3: Malon
4: Kazon
5: Devore
6: Heirarchy
My character Tsin'xing
But I guess we make due with what is given to us because of what was provided in the show.
Yeah, how did the Vaadwaur and the Under-corridors not end up as an option?
Okay maybe not the eating part
As to the fact that Dan is talking about players being able to fly a Borg Cube ...
That might be the stupidest idea I have ever heard for this game.
NO.
Just No.
For many reasons.
Far too many other cool ways to take this game. Too many other races to explore and play with. Please Please Please don't make flyable Borg Ships, with the exception of maybe using one in a mission where it fits the story. Flyable Borg ships would lead to warping in to an Earth Spacedock surrounded by Borg Ships. or a Borg Squad above the First City. The image is just ridiculous.
This one time they made Fonzie jump his motorcycle over some sharks ...
Peace, Love and Late Summer Heatwaves
- John
The Kobali.
I know you could make them as aliens. But I like the story possibilities of that species expanding into the Alpha quadrant.
My sentiments exactly. I really and sincerelly hope that they come to their senses and throw this ridiculous idea in the trash can. This has the potential to make a complete joke out of STO and not in a funny way.
There are so much options for directions, species, stories, conflicts, etc. in STO. There is so much potential in the Trek universe to make a fun and engaging game rather than doing this.
Please devs, don't trash STO in such a cheap way!
Anyways this would be the PERFECT time to add the Warship Voyager to the C-Store
To the Delta Quadrant plot:
The player could somehow get transported to the delta quadrant, and - once there - just get to use the knowledge of 2409. There must be any information about the transwarp gates in the ships computer. So the whole plot of episodes could be about finding allies, a location and the resources to build a gate leading to the one at home.
There's even room for completely different ways of completing this throughout the existing factions: feds use diplomacy and exploration, klingons pure force and firepower, romulans more subterfuge and intrigue.
I really don't see problems of a story driven plot. For me it always felt like being the one captain to be involved in those heroic missions, just like the Enterprise and its crew. Me and my crew are the heroes, not 10.000 captains swarming around.
After establishing a fixed connection, whatever it looks like, the whole thing shouldn't be a problem anymore and then there could be a more "adventure-zone"-like approach to it.
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We should have a battle simulator like Star Trek Bridge commander has, where you can test any ship, not sure why we won't have that, we have holodecks right?
- Which brings me to a sensitive point about canon. There are conflicting sources about whether the delta quadrant borders the alpha or beta quadrants. I have seen "official" sources that swap the location of gamma and delta on the other side of galactic centre. Dan mentioned something about Beta quadrant factions in the way.... so, please, please review the ST:Voyager episode where the doctor travels to the alpha quadrant for the first time and saves the USS Prometheus. Notice that between the map displayed in the show and the dialogue, that it is clear that the alpha quadrant and the delta quadrant border each other. It is alpha and gamma which are kitty-corner to each other (with the dominion nearer the beta quadrant than the delta). This is the only configuration that makes voyager's journey make any sense. Otherwise it would have been shorter to travel towards the bajoran wormhole to get back home!
:eek:
Nerfing is Fraud...
The quantum slip stream drive or transwarp were the top speed methods voyager used to get home, so that problem is kinda eliminated... dependent on how long it actually would take. In voyager it seemed that (i think) 2 days at transwarp burned 20,000 light years and with it only being 75,000 light years away it would seem doable. Yay more Voyager!
Or a faction from the Delta quadrant has found their own transwarp gate that leads to the Beta quadrant. They use this as a chance to explore the other quadrants when they have a run in with Feds and Klinks mid battle and whipe the floor with both factions. Your faction alerts you of the attack and that the energy signature of the vessel matches those seen by Voyager from when it was in the Delta quadrant. The missions from there would be about traveling to the Delta quadrant, learning about the aggressors, gaining favors with specific factions, and establihing a presence in the Delta quadrant.
They can even stick an Iconian gate in there if they want that storyline to be continued.
I agree it's far enough along they'd have had time to rebuild. They also have Iconian parallels.
Imo, there's been way too much fubaring the IP w/time travel and has been a big writer's crutch since Enterprise. So, leave all time travel out.
KDF splinter society is an easy draw for the KDF faction.
The episode w/the Romulan brought into the future from the past is another potential link for a non-Fed faction.
The space elves would be ok if toons had built in shelf life before they died.
But, really the big thing is they could introduce new species and systems since Voyager really was the tip of the iceburg. I'd much rather they did that after wrapping up storylines.
Instead I think we'll just end up w/more grind maps ...
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I vote the Vidiians because I liked the moral ambiguity and exploration of what a formerly great society would do in the face of extinction. They do what they have to to survive against a plague that is slowly killing their species. Some of them hate harvesting organs from the living and only go after the dead. Others use slave labor and kidnap the living and process them into spare body parts when they can't work anymore. And they shot up Neelix on their first appearance, which makes them ok in my book.
That's another thing. I don't mind including the Talaxians but TRIBBLE Neelix. At best he's annoying, at worst that petaQ is responsible for getting multiple crew killed or nearly so, even nearly destroying the ship with his cooking once. Don't even mention him, Cryptic, or at the very least kill him off in some amusing way five minutes in.
As for the Kazon, they're useless idiots who can't seem to realize that it's easier to mine water from comets and other space objects than be space gangsters and steal it from planets. Even the Borg think they're morons: I recall Seven of Nine remarking that assimilating them would weaken the Collective.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
For starters with the science thing colonelmarik spoke of, Voyager was the show that gave us the utter bollocking stupidity of putting a crack in an event horizon. For the uninitiated, the event horizon is the distance from the black hole at which not even light can escape. It is not a physical object but a mathematically defined perimeter, therefore it is utterly impossible to put a hole in it no matter what technobabble you use. As SF Debris puts it in his review of that episode, escaping an event horizon by putting a hole in it is equivalent to saying that you can put a hole in the range you can travel on a tank of gas and therefore go further.
I really freaking prefer Deep Space Nine to Voyager. Character and story development instead of technobabble, overuse of time travel, and TRIBBLE-TRIBBLE of the Prime Directive.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
When you say phenomenological, are you talking Meisner? That's my training although there's a temptation with sci fi to ham it up and directors of a certain age or hammy preference seem prone to considering a Meisner take too subdued or a failure and will often push a trained actor until they wind up doing a parody of Stanislavski.
And I think a lot of strong Stanislavski actors don't hit that fever pitched point of parody you're talking about, that accidentally Brechtian point where the actor seems hyper aware that they're playing a role.
And it also slides that way when scripts get loaded with technobabble.
I've never quite placed what Levar Burton does with technobabble. I never for a second buy his delivery. He sounds like he's narrating it. But his delivery is so pleasant that it's cal ing to listen too. He has a charm that overrides his sometimes dd acting style.
But it doesn't work in Voyager as well or Enterprise. Maybe because you can sense the actors fumbling for sense memory or character motivation when the type of technobabble in the scripts seems almost engineered to combat that approach.
In contrast with DS9, where I could imagine Sisko having a line that, instead of skewing towards technical language, skew poetic in the extreme. "The warp engines are so HOT, you could fry an egg on them. Stop. Hear that SIZZLE." That kind of thing. And the actors there could still go Stanislavski but the scripts catered to it better.
1. Getting to the DQ:
a. My favorite idea is that we essentially reverse the events of "Endgame" (VOY) by taking over parts of the Borg transwarp network. There were six hubs before the episode, and more may have been constructed after. This propels the conflict against the Borg forward within the story while opening the Delta Quadrant up. In my opinion this is best executed as a pre-launch episode where players take over a new Borg conduit, or a new transwarp gate is constructed to stabilize an opening from one of the Alpha Quadrant exits from the network. Either way players can defend new construction or take over old and then perhaps take over relay stations to access the DQ. This will put the Borg on the defensive and escalate the conflict, and both Feds and Klingons will need to gather DQ resources to keep the pressure on. Both factions may arrive together via Task Force Omega cooperation or separately, but the result likely would be the same.
b. In the episode "The Nth Degree" (THG) Barclay encounters an alien probe and temporarily gains the technical knowledge of the Cytherian civilization. While he loses this knowledge by the end of the episode, sensor readings of the event remain and the Cytherians share (somewhat unspecified) knowledge with the Enterprise which Picard muses "will take our scholars decades to examine." While introducing the full capacity to travel halfway across the galaxy immediately is not necessary, knowledge gained from this event may allow a number of advances in travel technology especially since it is not warp-based. (credit to my fleet buddy Josh for reminding me of the Cytherians)
c. In possible conjunction with the above idea or separately the subspace corridors used by the Vaadwaur in the episode "Dragon's Teeth" (VOY) are a consideration. While they may not extend into known space, it is possible. The Vaadwaur may not have explored the entirety of this network, and as a natural phenomena it may have altered over time.
d. The wormhole in "Eye of the Needle" (VOY) was stable and could potentially be tinkered wit. It's exit was in Romulan space which would be accessible to both factions now. Said wormhole was also temporally out of touch at both ends, but that could also be a plot point worthy of an episode.
e. The wormhole in "The Price" (TNG) and "False Profits" (VOY) was destabilized during the latter episode, but may have been re-stabilized (intentionally or naturally) by the current time. Discovery of the natural phenomenon or attempts to tame the wormhole may make a decent story.
f. Similar to my suggestion with the Borg, an Iconian gateway could be utilized. They are already in game and again you can conjoin the stories to some extent, allowing for that increased level of depth.
2. New Factions:
I think the concept of a new faction in the Delta Quadrant is ultimately self-defeating. The Romulans are not a fully separate faction so what species in the DQ merits such a presence? Why make a totally separate and segregated experience? I think it may be far more practical from a design perspective to make the DQ in play for the Federation and Klingons for the following reasons:
a. The Borg conflict needs some movement story-wise. Even if my first idea is not used to access the Delta Quadrant, the fight needs to go to them at some point. This would escalate the conflict in the story and provide payoff to players for previous efforts.
b. The DQ is a fractured place ripe for conquest by the Klingons and thus forcing the Federation to follow suit (via diplomacy of course). Again they will need more resources to bring the fight to the Borg.
c. Since none of the DQ powers really have a deep and multi-racial cast, one would have to be created, and that requires a lot of effort to create a faction that will never have the depth of story that the Federation or Klingons have.
d. Incorporation of DQ races could still include new leveling content, and also provide a simple concept to fuel the story "How do these people end up with whichever side?" Said content may also be available in part to Federation and Klingon players to provide more varied leveling content or simply more episodes to complete.
The above ideas all revolve around convergence. Writing a story about a race that appears in one or two episodes (few appear in more than that) is going to be a lot easier when they interact with the more well-known aspects of the Star Trek franchise. Tying it all together to create a larger plot web will deepen the experience.
3. Various ideas for the inclusion of DQ races in no particular order:
a. Borg: The most powerful force within the DQ for certain. Their threat should loom overhead, but not always be directly mentioned. They can be used to motivate various actions by other races within the story. Shoehorning them in is a mistake to avoid though as they should not be the one and only motivation for all things. Like any "villain" they need to be used delicately.
b. Undine: They may still retain a presence in the DQ and may also be an excellent source of action. They may find themselves conflicted in wanting to use other races against the Borg, but not have those races come out too strong to defeat. Walking that tightrope may lead to interesting plot developments.
c. Vaadwaur: While not used in more than one episode this race has story potential. Their surviving members were last seen fleeing into their underspace and in search of rebuilding their empire. As the scientist Gedrin states, both versions of their history as conquerors and explorers is true, and they may also provide more nuanced options for players whether they become playable or as NPCs.
d. Krenim: As the polls indicate people want them in-game. While a lot of this may be due to the want of a temporal ship that no longer exists in the story, it does not mean they cannot be more than that. Their Chroniton torpedo tech is already in the game and regardless of the temporal ship's erasure from history, it does not mean they are done meddling with temporal technology. Their use of such tech may bnring them into conflict with not only the players but the Tholians and could lead to mirror universe DQ content, which could prove interesting.
e. Talaxians: The Talaxian colony where Neelix ended up may provide a contact point for the federation if they travel to the DQ. They would make excellent candidates for Federation members of course and I suspect that is appealing to a number of players.
f. Vidiians: While the Phage was cured with a rather oblique comment in a later episode "Think Tank" (VOY), This may be an available plot point. The Phage was a very devastating disease that had a huge psychological effect for over two millennia and any cure to the disease likely involved genetic changes to the species which may have had unforseen side effects. The Think Tank liked solving problems but was notoriously amoral and may have failed to mention side effects which may also have provided another interesting problem to solve.
g. Kazon: While they did not work out too well in the show I find them a quite suitable candidate for Klingon conquest. They would have to be "convinced" by conquest I imagine, but would also fit right in once subdued. They also subjugate or raid other species, and may be a central part of Klingon conquest in the DQ if that plot point is used.
h. Voth: The Voth are slaves to doctrine where Voyager leaves off, but they may have undergone cultural changes by this point. Indeed they are possibly ripe for a civil war between fundamentalists and more progressive elements. Progressives may have cause to join the Federation while Fundamentalists remain hostile to all and particularly Humans.
i. Hirogen: Frankly the Hirogen offer little unless they undergo some cultural changes. They do have some similarities to the Klingons in that they may find working with the Empire offers the chance to test their skills and Klingons have great respect for hunting skills. On the other hand they may find Klingons the best prey. Hirogen society is fractured and decentralized so both may be true at the same time.
j. Devore: The Devore have little material to draw on. Their tech level is closer to the Federation but their hatred of telepaths makes them poor candidates to join either faction. They may be capable of prosecuting a crusade against telepaths especially if the Undine are revealed to be working among them. This could make them allies at times and enemies at others.
k. Ocampa: Since they have few if any holdings within the source material they are likely best used as a minor story species. Some may choose to live among the Federation but they may also be conquered by the Klingons, though they would not likely flourish under them. They may find themselves in the crosshairs of the Devore, or entwined in the psychic meddling of the Undine. Those on their home world may serve as a contested point if the Kazon join the Klingons and the Ocampa become Federation allies. Those cared for by Suspiria may have rejoined or at least reconnected with their home world.
l. The Dominion: As a major power within a neighboring quadrant, they too may wish to expand into the DQ. They may be conquering, they may be exploring, or both. The Gamma Quadrant would sensibly have more than just the one wormhole and it is possible they have access to one that goes to the DQ. Caution may be needed though as the Dominion represents in my opinion the most viable power to become another faction. It is also sensible that Borg threaten them as well. Jem'Hadar might make poor drones though unless the Borg can compensate for Ketracel addiction.
m. Last but not least... Liberated DQ Borg/Remnants of Unimatrix Zero: The only vastly multi-racial and potentially in-depth source for a new faction other than the Dominion. Again it could bring old content together with new, and also allow contact with the current factions via the transwarp network. If not included as a faction they certainly would be a result of the Feds and Klingons arriving in the DQ. There are many possibilities here and frankly many of them need not be mentioned, because this is the one potential faction that has significant source material.
EDIT:
n. Hierarchy and Malon: I forgot about them within a post where they appear on a poll, which I think reflects their ranking in most people's memories. The Malon are only known through their waste disposal specialists which while an important part of their existence, doesn't exactly tell us much about the rest of who they are. The Hierarchy is basically a comically overly complicated bureaucracy, It may be amusing to conquer them as Klingons and put them to work scrubbing conduits.
The Vaadwaur could also be allys - to the Klingons. They could serve the same role the Cardassians filled when they joined the Dominion: secretly building up their own power and keep waiting for a weaknes in the hegemonial power to take them over!
In fact the Devore and the Krenim shared some characteristics: an empire to defend, an arrogant attitude, and a strong will to rule - espacially over minor races. Annorax with his time ship is the exception, but please remember, they have been obliterated from the timeline, so there should be no reason to reintroduce them.
An alternativeto the Krenim, for all of us who love to travel in time, could be the high technology race from the planet with the fast paced time from the episode Blink of an Eye. Let them develop the ability to travel in our time continuum via a time machine. Not only could they be some kind of ally - at least to the Federation - they could provide some highly trained scientist, too. On the other hand their planet could be the base in DQ where invited players could do their own scientific research.
One more empire in the DQ has been overlooked but may be good for a surprise: the insektoids from the episode The Swarm. Their agenda is known and with their technology they could be able to create some problems in space as well as in ground missions.