Originally Posted by iskandus
It's possible I could have missed the Quantum Manipulation symbol, never say never, it still doesn't explain the full heal 10 sec later. At the time it disappear, that ship had virtually no shield left on all facings and hull is about 30% left, and far from the rest of its team.
Sounds Like he was just going back in time and changing things
Wells can be difficult to track at a distance when backsteping as you lose target on them
Okay so, it does what it says in the blog. But it's not working as intended? This logic is flawed. Weapons offline is worthless in PVE.
Yup...3 minute cooldown for 1-2 seconds of weapons offline for the Borg...this console pack will probably go for less than the Bio-neural/Nadeon Detonator pack if they do that.
Yup...3 minute cooldown for 1-2 seconds of weapons offline for the Borg...this console pack will probably go for less than the Bio-neural/Nadeon Detonator pack if they do that.
Devs can claim it's broke all they want. This is because of PVP. This is the. Biggest nerf I've ever seen.
Collapse causes 4,444.9 kinetic damage to all targets within the rupture when it expires.
oh yeah this thing needs a royal nerf bat, no wonder, if they did change it for the PvP community (I doubt that), that the PvP players are up and arms about this one.
No wonder, if they did change it for the PvP community (I doubt that), that the PvP players are up and arms about this one.
This console does NEED the Royal Nerf Bat.
Ehm, yes. But does NEED to be nerfed to be more useless than a white Zero Point Quantum Chamber Mk II?:rolleyes:
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
I was there for that, and just to clarify for you and everyone else.
Farktoid's area is QA, and what he said was more to the effect that he thinks there are changes coming but not to quote him on specifics.
This is because the specifics for powers are handled by the Systems team.
*emphasis mine*
So, biased title, going nuts about nothing.
Besides, does it even make any difference to PvE whether it stuns or just disables weapons? You don't even know if they are removing the perception debuff.....or the speed debuff.....or the big boom at the end.
Furthermore, there has been word that the entire debuff (perception, flight speed debuff and stun length) is unintentionally being boosted by Graviton Gens skilling. So that needs to be fixed.
It's not even certain that it's going to be "useless".
*emphasis mine*
So, biased title, going nuts about nothing.
Besides, does it even make any difference to PvE whether it stuns or just disables weapons? You don't even know if they are removing the perception debuff.....or the speed debuff.....or the big boom at the end.
Furthermore, there has been word that the entire debuff (perception, flight speed debuff and stun length) is unintentionally being boosted by Graviton Gens skilling. So that needs to be fixed.
Get your facts right.
My facts are right - he did say that he believed a nerf was incoming - he did say that it could be changed to just knock weapons offline- so what did I get wrong?
Oh gosh the horror - science skills "could" actually be useful again - can't have that in Tacscort heaven. Better nerf science and everything science again because pvp players don't like it - just like what happened to science before.
Actually this dev said WAY too much - and the reason he did is because he was being verbally attacked and slammed by PvP elite players who are irrate over this console. That is why he said so much.
The problem is not so much the console, is the fact that there are no counters to it.
So it seems that the logical thing to do, is to make a science ability counter it.
Make it so that a sci abilitie closes the subspace rift. Preferably a captain sci power or at least a commander level ability so that it could only be closed by a sci captain or a sci ship.
After all the job of science officers is to deal with this kind do anomalies
Instead of removing something from the game we would be adding an additional interesting mechanic, making the role of science more relevant at the same time.
The pve crowd would be happy keeping its console, and the pvp community would have its deserved counter.
So if you are a PvE player do you use this? What do you think about spending lots on lock boxes to get something and then have it nerfed because PvP players complain.
Yes I use this, no I'm not angry at the PvP community. The minute I equipped this on my ship, and used it. Two things popped into my head
"Wow. This is seriously broken"
and
"How can they even release something like this? Do they have no playtesting?"
It was obvious for anyone who has been around in this game for a while that this console was stupidly overpowered and a gamebreaker for PvP.
Cryptic should have given it some proper thought before releasing it, they should have known this was going to happen - because I sure did the moment I saw it.
Actually this dev said WAY too much - and the reason he did is because he was being verbally attacked and slammed by PvP elite players who are irrate over this console. That is why he said so much.
Source or it never happened. That's absolute NONSENSE - and I for one call bull manure.
You sir, are an outright liar and should be ashamed of yourself.
Hey i just been looking around the forums about this new console about how PVE player are saying they shouldnt nerf it just because pvp people are moaning its to over powered and vice versa, Why not just for the universal console you have split stats for these console say this affects this while fighting NPCs and this affect this for live players and this is so possible all you would need to do is have 2 databases for this console saying the stats which affect which players (NPC or Player). so what do you think?
My facts are right - he did say that he believed a nerf was incoming - he did say that it could be changed to just knock weapons offline- so what did I get wrong?
Oh gosh the horror - science skills "could" actually be useful again - can't have that in Tacscort heaven. Better nerf science and everything science again because pvp players don't like it - just like what happened to science before.
Actually this dev said WAY too much - and the reason he did is because he was being verbally attacked and slammed by PvP elite players who are irrate over this console. That is why he said so much.
Main people I notice abusing this are various tac escort/warbird type ships as part of decloaking alphas. I don't like it because there is no counter and gives people guaranteed kill, that's not fun or a game I would spend money on anymore.
Yes I use this, no I'm not angry at the PvP community. The minute I equipped this on my ship, and used it. Two things popped into my head
"Wow. This is seriously broken"
and
"How can they even release something like this? Do they have no playtesting?"
It was obvious for anyone who has been around in this game for a while that this console was stupidly overpowered and a gamebreaker for PvP.
Cryptic should have given it some proper thought before releasing it, they should have known this was going to happen - because I sure did the moment I saw it.
Thought, QA and playtesting. All of those that cryptic gave up on when PWE took over.
Since then, the live server has been the playtesting and we the playerbase are the QA
*chuckle* If anything this console proves just how potent a disable can be in this game, and to have a 10 second guaranteed disable if your target isn't moving fast enough to escape it when it finally hits, and even that is no guarantee.
Which is why it needs to be kept to SCI only powers, or unique situations like tric torps/mines, or unique torpedoes which all only keep you disabled for a short time unless you spec into it. (Even then the torp itself can be shot down sometime, and other disables outside of this console can be resisted at least. This thing can't be countered or resisted)
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
My facts are right - he did say that he believed a nerf was incoming - he did say that it could be changed to just knock weapons offline- so what did I get wrong?
Oh gosh the horror - science skills "could" actually be useful again - can't have that in Tacscort heaven. Better nerf science and everything science again because pvp players don't like it - just like what happened to science before.
Actually this dev said WAY too much - and the reason he did is because he was being verbally attacked and slammed by PvP elite players who are irrate over this console. That is why he said so much.
Thats funny, I thought we were already in Tacscort heaven, seeing as the console in its present state makes it 100% impossible for ANY ship to survive a properly executed alpha-strike with it. :rolleyes:
Don't kid yourself, this broken console is little more than a distraction maneuver for science ships and captains.
My facts are right - he did say that he believed a nerf was incoming - he did say that it could be changed to just knock weapons offline- so what did I get wrong?
How do you know every single aspect of it will be reduced to that one debuff? For all you know, they could just swap the stun. How do you know it's nothing but "knock weapons offline"? How do you know how long the weapons offline will last? It's all "could be" and "might be". It could even still be in planning, for goodness' sake. How many times has Cryptic not kept promises? How many times have things in the pipeline not materialized?
Plus, he said "not to quote" him on this. That means he isn't certain, and could very well have gotten facts off. Oh, and guess what: you did exactly what he said not to do. You quoted him.
You're the one posting a sensationalist topic based on an uncertain piece of hearsay just so
you can stir up resentment against PvPers.
Oh gosh the horror - science skills "could" actually be useful again - can't have that in Tacscort heaven. Better nerf science and everything science again because pvp players don't like it - just like what happened to science before.
How is this in any way relevant? This console has nothing to do with science skills. Every ship can mount it. That means that Tacscorts can leverage this better-than-any-Sci boff skill console. And I main science anyways, although I experiment with tac on occasion. Any true sci buff would make me quite happy.
This console is also an excellent synergiser with a Tacscort alpha strike. Disable = no defenses = guaranteed pop.
Not to mention tacscorts are by far the most able to escape this console because of their speed, while cruisers, carriers and many sci vessels are left to languish in the rift.
This console was buffing Tacscorts and nerfing the science role. How then will removing this console help escorts? In fact, it's a nerf to tacscorts. Your logic is completely faulty.
Actually this dev said WAY too much - and the reason he did is because he was being verbally attacked and slammed by PvP elite players who are irrate over this console. That is why he said so much.
If this statement is actually true, he said things he shouldn't have. And why would that be? The answer is because he either isn't certain or things are not set in stone yet. Simple.
I'm glad to see something is going to be done about it. The thing is broken, no two ways about it. Console powers and weapon procs are getting to crazy levels now and it's going to get worse while Crypic stick to their more=better method.
Those cannons are another example, with a 100% bleedthrough proc bonus. The shields on PvE ships are pathetic so why would we need something like this? Only use I can see is to counter the ridiculous resistance those elite fleet shields are capable of. It wouldn't surprise me if we see new shields a few months from now that has a strong heal trigger when bleedthough occurs, hell maybe even a light HE effect to cleanse the hull while they're at it.
And round and round it goes, bigger, better, more powerful. And everyone not willing to jump through the hoops get left behind. I know the mere mention of balance causes giggles here since it'll be more likely we'll see flying space pigs over ESD, but there has to be something.
Source or it never happened. That's absolute NONSENSE - and I for one call bull manure.
You sir, are an outright liar and should be ashamed of yourself.
So the players that were firing salvos at this dev to nerf the console were - PvE players? Hmm - I have been active in the PvP area for a bit so i know who some of them are.
Also the fact that there have been 5 ot 6 threads created by PvP players calling for a Nerf to this console - means - it's not the PvP community that is after Cryptic for the nerf?? OK.
Yeah that is believable - right. Almost all the elite players have posted pretty irrate posts - including quiting the game - like Marc above this post - a very skilled and elite KDF pvp player - would it be sad to see them go? Of course. I don't want that to happen.
There are 2 fundemental problems here:
1) how to you make a console powerful for PvE and not OP in PvP?
2) how to you get something powerful into the hands of low skill - lower level ships/gear to newer PvP players that gets them some kills and makes them participate rather than sitting afk or leaving after just being cannon fodder for the elite players?
These are serious issue that should be addressed before you just nerf a new console - and what about future consoles - and the lock-box system - is it worth it?
So the players that were firing salvos at this dev to nerf the console were - PvE players? Hmm - I have been active in the PvP area for a bit so i know who some of them are.
Also the fact that there have been 5 ot 6 threads created by PvP players calling for a Nerf to this console - means - it's not the PvP community that is after Cryptic for the nerf?? OK.
The PvE players KNEW it needed a nerf and that it was OP but don't really care because it's never used against them (like ME), although I still started a thread about it for discussion purposes and completely agree it needs a nerf.
Was I was angry about is you claiming the PvP players were verbally attacking developers. There's a big difference between whining and being annoyed, and a verbal attack. You're painting PvPers out like they're evil, harsh, mean people. They aren't
1) how to you make a console powerful for PvE and not OP in PvP?
2) how to you get something powerful into the hands of low skill - lower level ships/gear to newer PvP players that gets them some kills and makes them participate rather than sitting afk or leaving after just being cannon fodder for the elite players?
These are serious issue that should be addressed before you just nerf a new console - and what about future consoles - and the lock-box system - is it worth it?
I don't know about 1, but I do know that 2 is not addressed by handing out a console that is even more OP in the hands of veterans than new players.
any enemy starships caught within the rupture by limiting their perception and flight speed while simultaneously disabling their weapons and bridge officer abilities. The subspace rupture will collapse after several seconds causing damage to any ships that remain within the disrupted region of space.
the fact that it kills PLAYER skills, and not just BOFF skills, is its only OP property. as an engineer, i can survive this console easy with up to 3 escorts on me. there's only 3 things i'd do if this HAD to be nerfed.
1: (fix, not nerf) player skills uneffected when it takes off BOFF powers.
2: duration cut from 10 seconds to 5 seconds.
3: you get an immunity buff directly afterwards so a tag team of 3-5 cant just fire these in series and hold you there for 25 seconds till you die.
the reason i say this is because tactical escorts have a monopoly on the game. go into PVP, and the first kill of the game will be an escort. the first death will either be a fail escort, an average science, or an unprepared/fail cruiser.
engineers dont have any role in PVP. and as an engineer/escort, its taken me quite a while to compete damage-wise with full tactical escorts, even while in the exact same ship. this console has been the first time i've felt like i had an edge over my tactical allies. a tactical escort doesnt stand a chance against this thing. i have 2 miracle workers with my 'grace under fire' trait, and because of that, can survive.
even as an escort flyer, i'm tired of escorts have a monopoly on PVP. its not very star trek, since most of the ships would probably count as cruisers/science. not many of the main ships are escorts.
however in PVE, yes this console is already kinda bleh. i use it, but doesnt seem to help much. unlike PVP where it changes the fight
Comments
It's possible I could have missed the Quantum Manipulation symbol, never say never, it still doesn't explain the full heal 10 sec later. At the time it disappear, that ship had virtually no shield left on all facings and hull is about 30% left, and far from the rest of its team.
Sounds Like he was just going back in time and changing things
Wells can be difficult to track at a distance when backsteping as you lose target on them
This^^^^
I might actually PVP again if all lockbox/universal consoles were banned from it....
Yup...3 minute cooldown for 1-2 seconds of weapons offline for the Borg...this console pack will probably go for less than the Bio-neural/Nadeon Detonator pack if they do that.
Devs can claim it's broke all they want. This is because of PVP. This is the. Biggest nerf I've ever seen.
Rare Console
Character Bind on Eqip
Cannot Equip more than one 1 of this item
Launch Subspace Rupture
Decrease perception and flight speed, +Disable
Creates a level 50 rupture for 10 sec
To all enemies within 3km of the rupture:
* -99.9% Perception
* -83.3% Flight Speed
* Disable
Collapse causes 4,444.9 kinetic damage to all targets within the rupture when it expires.
oh yeah this thing needs a royal nerf bat, no wonder, if they did change it for the PvP community (I doubt that), that the PvP players are up and arms about this one.
This console does NEED the Royal Nerf Bat.
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Ehm, yes. But does NEED to be nerfed to be more useless than a white Zero Point Quantum Chamber Mk II?:rolleyes:
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
*emphasis mine*
So, biased title, going nuts about nothing.
Besides, does it even make any difference to PvE whether it stuns or just disables weapons? You don't even know if they are removing the perception debuff.....or the speed debuff.....or the big boom at the end.
Furthermore, there has been word that the entire debuff (perception, flight speed debuff and stun length) is unintentionally being boosted by Graviton Gens skilling. So that needs to be fixed.
Get your facts right.
My facts are right - he did say that he believed a nerf was incoming - he did say that it could be changed to just knock weapons offline- so what did I get wrong?
Oh gosh the horror - science skills "could" actually be useful again - can't have that in Tacscort heaven. Better nerf science and everything science again because pvp players don't like it - just like what happened to science before.
Actually this dev said WAY too much - and the reason he did is because he was being verbally attacked and slammed by PvP elite players who are irrate over this console. That is why he said so much.
So it seems that the logical thing to do, is to make a science ability counter it.
Make it so that a sci abilitie closes the subspace rift. Preferably a captain sci power or at least a commander level ability so that it could only be closed by a sci captain or a sci ship.
After all the job of science officers is to deal with this kind do anomalies
Instead of removing something from the game we would be adding an additional interesting mechanic, making the role of science more relevant at the same time.
The pve crowd would be happy keeping its console, and the pvp community would have its deserved counter.
This.
Suck it up. Especially you, OP, of all people.
Yes I use this, no I'm not angry at the PvP community. The minute I equipped this on my ship, and used it. Two things popped into my head
"Wow. This is seriously broken"
and
"How can they even release something like this? Do they have no playtesting?"
It was obvious for anyone who has been around in this game for a while that this console was stupidly overpowered and a gamebreaker for PvP.
Cryptic should have given it some proper thought before releasing it, they should have known this was going to happen - because I sure did the moment I saw it.
Kirk's Protege.
Source or it never happened. That's absolute NONSENSE - and I for one call bull manure.
You sir, are an outright liar and should be ashamed of yourself.
Kirk's Protege.
Main people I notice abusing this are various tac escort/warbird type ships as part of decloaking alphas. I don't like it because there is no counter and gives people guaranteed kill, that's not fun or a game I would spend money on anymore.
Thought, QA and playtesting. All of those that cryptic gave up on when PWE took over.
Since then, the live server has been the playtesting and we the playerbase are the QA
Which is why it needs to be kept to SCI only powers, or unique situations like tric torps/mines, or unique torpedoes which all only keep you disabled for a short time unless you spec into it. (Even then the torp itself can be shot down sometime, and other disables outside of this console can be resisted at least. This thing can't be countered or resisted)
Except for the fact that they stopped EPTE spheres dead in their tracks, and enabled you to kill them all before they spread out (ala the old days)
Except for the fact it makes Wave 10 of NWS stupidly easy when you time it properly.
Aside from the fact using it can help obliterate Negh and Raptor spawns in CSE way faster than anything else.
Apart from those things, yeah, it was useless in PvE.
I still support this nerf (if it comes)
Kirk's Protege.
Thats funny, I thought we were already in Tacscort heaven, seeing as the console in its present state makes it 100% impossible for ANY ship to survive a properly executed alpha-strike with it. :rolleyes:
Don't kid yourself, this broken console is little more than a distraction maneuver for science ships and captains.
How do you know every single aspect of it will be reduced to that one debuff? For all you know, they could just swap the stun. How do you know it's nothing but "knock weapons offline"? How do you know how long the weapons offline will last? It's all "could be" and "might be". It could even still be in planning, for goodness' sake. How many times has Cryptic not kept promises? How many times have things in the pipeline not materialized?
Plus, he said "not to quote" him on this. That means he isn't certain, and could very well have gotten facts off. Oh, and guess what: you did exactly what he said not to do. You quoted him.
You're the one posting a sensationalist topic based on an uncertain piece of hearsay just so
you can stir up resentment against PvPers.
How is this in any way relevant? This console has nothing to do with science skills. Every ship can mount it. That means that Tacscorts can leverage this better-than-any-Sci boff skill console. And I main science anyways, although I experiment with tac on occasion. Any true sci buff would make me quite happy.
This console is also an excellent synergiser with a Tacscort alpha strike. Disable = no defenses = guaranteed pop.
Not to mention tacscorts are by far the most able to escape this console because of their speed, while cruisers, carriers and many sci vessels are left to languish in the rift.
This console was buffing Tacscorts and nerfing the science role. How then will removing this console help escorts? In fact, it's a nerf to tacscorts. Your logic is completely faulty.
If this statement is actually true, he said things he shouldn't have. And why would that be? The answer is because he either isn't certain or things are not set in stone yet. Simple.
Those cannons are another example, with a 100% bleedthrough proc bonus. The shields on PvE ships are pathetic so why would we need something like this? Only use I can see is to counter the ridiculous resistance those elite fleet shields are capable of. It wouldn't surprise me if we see new shields a few months from now that has a strong heal trigger when bleedthough occurs, hell maybe even a light HE effect to cleanse the hull while they're at it.
And round and round it goes, bigger, better, more powerful. And everyone not willing to jump through the hoops get left behind. I know the mere mention of balance causes giggles here since it'll be more likely we'll see flying space pigs over ESD, but there has to be something.
So the players that were firing salvos at this dev to nerf the console were - PvE players? Hmm - I have been active in the PvP area for a bit so i know who some of them are.
Also the fact that there have been 5 ot 6 threads created by PvP players calling for a Nerf to this console - means - it's not the PvP community that is after Cryptic for the nerf?? OK.
Yeah that is believable - right. Almost all the elite players have posted pretty irrate posts - including quiting the game - like Marc above this post - a very skilled and elite KDF pvp player - would it be sad to see them go? Of course. I don't want that to happen.
There are 2 fundemental problems here:
1) how to you make a console powerful for PvE and not OP in PvP?
2) how to you get something powerful into the hands of low skill - lower level ships/gear to newer PvP players that gets them some kills and makes them participate rather than sitting afk or leaving after just being cannon fodder for the elite players?
These are serious issue that should be addressed before you just nerf a new console - and what about future consoles - and the lock-box system - is it worth it?
The PvE players KNEW it needed a nerf and that it was OP but don't really care because it's never used against them (like ME), although I still started a thread about it for discussion purposes and completely agree it needs a nerf.
Was I was angry about is you claiming the PvP players were verbally attacking developers. There's a big difference between whining and being annoyed, and a verbal attack. You're painting PvPers out like they're evil, harsh, mean people. They aren't
Well that's incredibly easy. They've done it on loads of items.
Either
1) Change the duration against real players. Make it a 3s duration instead of 10s.
2) Make the disable not work on players.
Both have been done many times on other items.
Kirk's Protege.
I don't know about 1, but I do know that 2 is not addressed by handing out a console that is even more OP in the hands of veterans than new players.
the fact that it kills PLAYER skills, and not just BOFF skills, is its only OP property. as an engineer, i can survive this console easy with up to 3 escorts on me. there's only 3 things i'd do if this HAD to be nerfed.
1: (fix, not nerf) player skills uneffected when it takes off BOFF powers.
2: duration cut from 10 seconds to 5 seconds.
3: you get an immunity buff directly afterwards so a tag team of 3-5 cant just fire these in series and hold you there for 25 seconds till you die.
the reason i say this is because tactical escorts have a monopoly on the game. go into PVP, and the first kill of the game will be an escort. the first death will either be a fail escort, an average science, or an unprepared/fail cruiser.
engineers dont have any role in PVP. and as an engineer/escort, its taken me quite a while to compete damage-wise with full tactical escorts, even while in the exact same ship. this console has been the first time i've felt like i had an edge over my tactical allies. a tactical escort doesnt stand a chance against this thing. i have 2 miracle workers with my 'grace under fire' trait, and because of that, can survive.
even as an escort flyer, i'm tired of escorts have a monopoly on PVP. its not very star trek, since most of the ships would probably count as cruisers/science. not many of the main ships are escorts.
however in PVE, yes this console is already kinda bleh. i use it, but doesnt seem to help much. unlike PVP where it changes the fight
Personally I think it's too powerful in PvE too, halve the duration across the board IMO.
P.S Inb4merge
Kirk's Protege.