Deep cleansing breath everyone hold it, hold it ok
Since 85-90% of the game is PvE:
What are some realistic suggestions to take the OPness out of the console for PvP yet still allowing it to be a nice purchase for PvE players?
* reduce the stun/Boff power lockout time and allow Sci/Eng Team to clear the hold/stun same as with the Tholian proc and boost the rupture collapse damage perhaps?
I'm still wondering if the deuterium burn consumable would work.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Deep cleansing breath everyone hold it, hold it ok
Since 85-90% of the game is PvE:
What are some realistic suggestions to take the OPness out of the console for PvP yet still allowing it to be a nice purchase for PvE players?
* reduce the stun/Boff power lockout time and allow Sci/Eng Team to clear the hold/stun same as with the Tholian proc and boost the rupture collapse damage perhaps?
Deep cleansing breath everyone hold it, hold it ok
Since 85-90% of the game is PvE:
What are some realistic suggestions to take the OPness out of the console for PvP yet still allowing it to be a nice purchase for PvE players?
* reduce the stun/Boff power lockout time and allow Sci/Eng Team to clear the hold/stun same as with the Tholian proc and boost the rupture collapse damage perhaps?
Well, I'm not entirely certain if the lockout reduction is necessary (bear in mind that I have yet to use it for any purpose other than preventing cubes from killing me in STFs for a few extra seconds), however allowing people to cleanse it with abilities like the ones you suggested wouldn't be a bad idea. Yeah, not bad at all.
As for the collapse damage, I think of it as a free quantum torpedo every 3 minutes, with an AOE. Given the current state of the console, I think that's fine.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
no i think around Fountry and other Missions with high drop rates
PVP should be a other game so that it dont messes up any PVE Stuff because you PVP **** dont like it
Actually, Vreenak is right to a degree - the PvPers are the ones willing to pay trillions of credits to buy the best gear available, however PvE is the main source of such gear.
In other words, you're both right.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I suggest that the disable effect should only apply for the final 3 or so seconds of the rift. This gives good incentive to hit some engine power and hightail out of there, and also not to fly into an already present rift. The flight speed and perception effects can remain the same.
Does it lock out consoles? Subspace jumper might be a counter if not.
Everything is locked out.
And even if it weren't, you need to have a target in order to use Subspace Jump. The Black Baseball O' Doom lowers your perception such that you can't see anything but yourself and people right on top of you.
Actually, Vreenak is right to a degree - the PvPers are the ones willing to pay trillions of credits to buy the best gear available, however PvE is the main source of such gear.
In other words, you're both right.
Exactly my point, supply and demand.
PvE'ers create supply and the PvP'ers the demand.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Pretty much the only counter is to keep your speed high. Of course, for ships like cruisers and carriers, that's the equivalent of telling a cancer patient that they are going to die. :P
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
I saw someone using it on Donatra with no effect at all, she cloaked and ran away.
also spheres seems not affected at all. However in pve this console is useless: most of NPCs are very easy to kill and better affected by several other abilities/consoles.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
also spheres seems not affected at all. However in pve this console is useless: most of NPCs are very easy to kill and better affected by several other abilities/consoles.
I haven't tested it extensively yet, but my guess would be that it didn't affect the spheres after they had activated Emergency Power to Engines.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
*chuckle* I asked back on page one for 'themarie' to answer how to counter it. I didn't get said answer, not surprised though. :rolleyes:
Wanna counter it? Simple, stop to PvP lol (sry about that but couldnt ressist )
On a serious note, borticus gave hints about counter it:
Players in PvP that see an enemy using this ability can easily counter it:
- Keep an eye out for the distinctive projectile, and use any Maneuvering Buff while it is inbound (Evasive Maneuvers, AP:Omega, EPtEngines, Subspace Wake, etc). And keep your Throttle high.
- Fly with higher than 25 Engine Power, and invest in Inertial Dampers skill. We made sure, when tuning this power, that even a moderately-geared player can escape the hazard without a monumental effort, before it implodes.
No idea why so many people who don't PvP defend this console. It has literally zero impact on PvE. As someone else already pointed out all NPCs against which it could have been useful (like Donatra) are immune to its effects anyway.
I ask you the same then, when the tour was nerfed, why so many ppl defended the nerf and rubbed in with "Thank God they nerfed it", even if they werent afected by it, hmm? I am not saying you did that, is more of a rethorical question.
On PvE still have to test it againt the Borg Queen tho.
Damm this sux, not again, its really annoying to see that only 3-4 days left since a new console was introduced and again the PvP comunity crys nerf again, instaid of actually thinking: "Hmm a challlenge, now lets seek out new tactics and strategies". But no, everything that mixies things up a little and its outside apha pew pew is OP, so lets nerf it.
For real, the console has 3 mins cd for only 10 secs use. Its not like it could be spammed. Actually I would even ask the devs to buff it to 15 secs durations and to add a line "Half duration to players" to please PvPers.
Someone mentioned PvPers want diversity, well here it is your diversity. Devs probablly noticed that ppl are using in PvP mostly AP: Beta and AP: Delta in detriment of AP: Omega, using Polarized Hull for tractor imunity. So now you can use more Attack Pattern Omega. Slot a few conn doffs to reduce its cooldown or with aux2bat build (to reduce it to 30 secs cd) and you can have only around 15 secs window without the buff actually, thus having little trouble with this console been used upon you.
Rejoice peaple, this console is a good thing:D
Thats funny, I'm invested 6 points into Inertial Dampers and my Engine power levels are at 50-60 consistently, not to mention the ID bonus I get from my STF equipment.
And yet when I get hit maneuvering at full throttle it still shuts me down cold and makes me come to a complete stop.
And keeping an eye out is the biggest joke of all, seeing as how cloak capable ships can easily ambush you at point blank range.
Speaking of which, would probally make it more balanced if the subspace rift affected you and friendly players as well.
Thats funny, I'm invested 6 points into Inertial Dampers and my Engine power levels are at 50-60 consistently, not to mention the ID bonus I get from my STF equipment.
And yet when I get hit maneuvering at full throttle it still shuts me down cold and makes me come to a complete stop.
And keeping an eye out is the biggest joke of all, seeing as how cloak capable ships can easily ambush you at point blank range...
Completely agreed. In my recluse I could not escape even by switching to full engines energy level.
In addition in a PvP match it is almost always impossible to watch out for the little energy ball: usually you have to deal with a lot of spam with pets, support ships, torpedoes, mines and so on.
The problem is the inability to counter it: a good team will always wait until your omega/evasive maneuver is over, hold you by tractor beams and/or gravity well and if you are hit you can't activate anything useful (besides almost useless science- and engineering team you can't even activate evasive maneuvers or subspace jump). If you are not killed in the first dark cloud, someone else throws another circuit on you and you will die for sure - I had to experience it several times in my recluse healing boat besides another healer was trying to save me.
Sorry, but for me this new console is a complete no fun item.
Thought: Whilst borticus's advice can be considered sound, it seems considered only from the point of a 10 meter range. This thing can be fired a full 360 degrees. Fly by on an attack run or initial sweep moving into your standard broadside, dump it whilst close/on top of your target.
No chance to react.
And some of it seems awkward anyway. Thanks to Bonus Power most people are flying with at least 35. More thanks to 'standard' power tactics via Duty Officers (Warp Core Engineers, Damage Control Engineers, Technicians via Aux2Bat, etc). To say nothing of Engineers and their EPS Efficiency trait. If he means 'Immediately shunt power to Engines/Use a Battery', he should say so.
It's an interesting console, to be honest. Whilst it doesn't work on Donatra(Who's surprised?), it seems to work on Cubes(OK) and more importantly Tactical Cubes(Which are boss-class no matter how you shake it). Annoyingly, I couldn't test on a Unimatrix in the Borg Red Alert because I'd used it on the Tactical.
If it works on Gates fun times are ahead. And at the very least annoying Spheres and Nanite Spheres won't be doing much.
Damm this sux, not again, its really annoying to see that only 3-4 days left since a new console was introduced and again the PvP comunity crys nerf again, instaid of actually thinking: "Hmm a challlenge, now lets seek out new tactics and strategies". But no, everything that mixies things up a little and its outside apha pew pew is OP, so lets nerf it.
For real, the console has 3 mins cd for only 10 secs use. Its not like it could be spammed. Actually I would even ask the devs to buff it to 15 secs durations and to add a line "Half duration to players" to please PvPers.
Half duration to players works for me. And I say this to you: tactics and strategies are based around Boff powers. And this thing disables boff powers. Your point?
Devs probablly noticed that ppl are using in PvP mostly AP: Beta and AP: Delta in detriment of AP: Omega, using Polarized Hull for tractor imunity. So now you can use more Attack Pattern Omega. Slot a few conn doffs to reduce its cooldown or with aux2bat build (to reduce it to 30 secs cd) and you can have only around 15 secs window without the buff actually, thus having little trouble with this console been used upon you.
Rejoice peaple, this console is a good thing:D
Escorts using APB and APD instead of APO? Seriously? Nobody good uses APB in PvP. APD only fills in the gap between APOs. Getting your facts totally wrong there. Not to mention you just excluded every ship in the game that lacks an LtComm boff slot. Conn doffs? ATB? So people have to sacrifice 25 million EC and 2 doff slots (conn doffs), or 2 Lt Eng slots (which many ships don't have) with 3 Doff slots along with 10 million EC (ATB) just to counter a single console with a 2mil EC cost??!!
I rarely get this frustrated with players, but you know so very little about cost-benefit ratio. You certainly have not had a skilled player using this console on you.
Get this straight - this console does far too much for the opportunity cost. It requires impossibly quick reactions to counter when fired at short range. Even then, the counters you outline are so much more costly in build slots and EC it's ridiculous. And even 2 seconds (remember PSW alpha strikes?) is enough to vape you.
How would you defend against something that shuts down all of your Captain AND BO abilities? Run from it, as the Devs suggested? What about when you've got something that stops your movement (Tractor Beam, Viral, etc)? How would you defend against something that leaves you literally defenseless?
i agree that it shouldnt take off your captain skills. those shouldnt be taken off when hit by this. however i protest that this console is OP.
i wouldnt say i'm a hardcore PVPer. i do it frequently, and enjoy it, but i'm not in there all the time. my PVP/PVE ratio is nearly even.
that said, once the console goes back to doing what it SAYS it'll do, which is only Boff abilities, i'll be quite happy with it. currently PVP is more of a duel between tactical officers and the occasional science that knows what it's doing. i fly as an engineer in an escort. i get close to the DPS of full tactical defiants, but still dont come within 1000 DPS of them.
the way i see this console is a reason to go engineer in PVP. everyone else might die the moment their hit with this, but i have 2 miracle workers most of the time (grace under fire buff) and therefore this console wouldnt kill my tanky little escort.
and yes PVP nutties, i HAVE bit hit by it. several times. and with a scimitar and Mogia on me, my risian corvette survived the WHOLE 10 seconds this console lasts and didnt die. infact i killed both the scimitar and the mogia. yes, it was close. is it an insta death? well not if you spent 5 minutes thinking of defense.
Comments
I'm still wondering if the deuterium burn consumable would work.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Not if you've got EWP/Theta/VM/Tractor Beam/GW on you.
That would be perfect.
And yet the games player-driven economy is centered around PvP
PVP should be a other game so that it dont messes up any PVE Stuff because you PVP **** dont like it
Subscribed For: 4 years 5 months 20 days at 26.10.2014
Well, I'm not entirely certain if the lockout reduction is necessary (bear in mind that I have yet to use it for any purpose other than preventing cubes from killing me in STFs for a few extra seconds), however allowing people to cleanse it with abilities like the ones you suggested wouldn't be a bad idea. Yeah, not bad at all.
As for the collapse damage, I think of it as a free quantum torpedo every 3 minutes, with an AOE. Given the current state of the console, I think that's fine.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Actually, Vreenak is right to a degree - the PvPers are the ones willing to pay trillions of credits to buy the best gear available, however PvE is the main source of such gear.
In other words, you're both right.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Everything is locked out.
And even if it weren't, you need to have a target in order to use Subspace Jump. The Black Baseball O' Doom lowers your perception such that you can't see anything but yourself and people right on top of you.
Exactly my point, supply and demand.
PvE'ers create supply and the PvP'ers the demand.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
also spheres seems not affected at all. However in pve this console is useless: most of NPCs are very easy to kill and better affected by several other abilities/consoles.
Playing STO spamming FAW is like playing chess using always the computer's suggested moves
Indeed, and one cannot properly exist without the other.
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
I haven't tested it extensively yet, but my guess would be that it didn't affect the spheres after they had activated Emergency Power to Engines.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
It is only logical that they cannot.
However, the lifetime of the rupture is small enough to make it insignificant. Well, for me, anyway. I need to find a good build or two...
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Wanna counter it? Simple, stop to PvP lol (sry about that but couldnt ressist
On a serious note, borticus gave hints about counter it:
I ask you the same then, when the tour was nerfed, why so many ppl defended the nerf and rubbed in with "Thank God they nerfed it", even if they werent afected by it, hmm? I am not saying you did that, is more of a rethorical question.
On PvE still have to test it againt the Borg Queen tho.
Damm this sux, not again, its really annoying to see that only 3-4 days left since a new console was introduced and again the PvP comunity crys nerf again, instaid of actually thinking: "Hmm a challlenge, now lets seek out new tactics and strategies". But no, everything that mixies things up a little and its outside apha pew pew is OP, so lets nerf it.
For real, the console has 3 mins cd for only 10 secs use. Its not like it could be spammed. Actually I would even ask the devs to buff it to 15 secs durations and to add a line "Half duration to players" to please PvPers.
Someone mentioned PvPers want diversity, well here it is your diversity. Devs probablly noticed that ppl are using in PvP mostly AP: Beta and AP: Delta in detriment of AP: Omega, using Polarized Hull for tractor imunity. So now you can use more Attack Pattern Omega. Slot a few conn doffs to reduce its cooldown or with aux2bat build (to reduce it to 30 secs cd) and you can have only around 15 secs window without the buff actually, thus having little trouble with this console been used upon you.
Rejoice peaple, this console is a good thing:D
And yet when I get hit maneuvering at full throttle it still shuts me down cold and makes me come to a complete stop.
And keeping an eye out is the biggest joke of all, seeing as how cloak capable ships can easily ambush you at point blank range.
Speaking of which, would probally make it more balanced if the subspace rift affected you and friendly players as well.
However, there IS no defense against this. Stop acting as if it's something as simple as swapping a Boff around, it's not that.
Completely agreed. In my recluse I could not escape even by switching to full engines energy level.
In addition in a PvP match it is almost always impossible to watch out for the little energy ball: usually you have to deal with a lot of spam with pets, support ships, torpedoes, mines and so on.
The problem is the inability to counter it: a good team will always wait until your omega/evasive maneuver is over, hold you by tractor beams and/or gravity well and if you are hit you can't activate anything useful (besides almost useless science- and engineering team you can't even activate evasive maneuvers or subspace jump). If you are not killed in the first dark cloud, someone else throws another circuit on you and you will die for sure - I had to experience it several times in my recluse healing boat besides another healer was trying to save me.
Sorry, but for me this new console is a complete no fun item.
No chance to react.
And some of it seems awkward anyway. Thanks to Bonus Power most people are flying with at least 35. More thanks to 'standard' power tactics via Duty Officers (Warp Core Engineers, Damage Control Engineers, Technicians via Aux2Bat, etc). To say nothing of Engineers and their EPS Efficiency trait. If he means 'Immediately shunt power to Engines/Use a Battery', he should say so.
It's an interesting console, to be honest. Whilst it doesn't work on Donatra(Who's surprised?), it seems to work on Cubes(OK) and more importantly Tactical Cubes(Which are boss-class no matter how you shake it). Annoyingly, I couldn't test on a Unimatrix in the Borg Red Alert because I'd used it on the Tactical.
If it works on Gates fun times are ahead. And at the very least annoying Spheres and Nanite Spheres won't be doing much.
Half duration to players works for me. And I say this to you: tactics and strategies are based around Boff powers. And this thing disables boff powers. Your point?
Escorts using APB and APD instead of APO? Seriously? Nobody good uses APB in PvP. APD only fills in the gap between APOs. Getting your facts totally wrong there. Not to mention you just excluded every ship in the game that lacks an LtComm boff slot. Conn doffs? ATB? So people have to sacrifice 25 million EC and 2 doff slots (conn doffs), or 2 Lt Eng slots (which many ships don't have) with 3 Doff slots along with 10 million EC (ATB) just to counter a single console with a 2mil EC cost??!!
I rarely get this frustrated with players, but you know so very little about cost-benefit ratio. You certainly have not had a skilled player using this console on you.
Get this straight - this console does far too much for the opportunity cost. It requires impossibly quick reactions to counter when fired at short range. Even then, the counters you outline are so much more costly in build slots and EC it's ridiculous. And even 2 seconds (remember PSW alpha strikes?) is enough to vape you.
That said, I can see the problems with this console. No counters is not fun.
However, how do you go about fixing this console, without nerfing it into oblivion???
Cryptic has a history of over nerfing things...
This console has served me well in PvE so far, and I would not like it if it's nerfed into oblivion.
I have no real answers, save for the one suggestion of halving the time vs players...
i agree that it shouldnt take off your captain skills. those shouldnt be taken off when hit by this. however i protest that this console is OP.
i wouldnt say i'm a hardcore PVPer. i do it frequently, and enjoy it, but i'm not in there all the time. my PVP/PVE ratio is nearly even.
that said, once the console goes back to doing what it SAYS it'll do, which is only Boff abilities, i'll be quite happy with it. currently PVP is more of a duel between tactical officers and the occasional science that knows what it's doing. i fly as an engineer in an escort. i get close to the DPS of full tactical defiants, but still dont come within 1000 DPS of them.
the way i see this console is a reason to go engineer in PVP. everyone else might die the moment their hit with this, but i have 2 miracle workers most of the time (grace under fire buff) and therefore this console wouldnt kill my tanky little escort.
and yes PVP nutties, i HAVE bit hit by it. several times. and with a scimitar and Mogia on me, my risian corvette survived the WHOLE 10 seconds this console lasts and didnt die. infact i killed both the scimitar and the mogia. yes, it was close. is it an insta death? well not if you spent 5 minutes thinking of defense.
SIC + Cloak Alpha Strike = Un-counterable Kill
That is why you need a better way of detecting ships. :P
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.