I don't like you either, and I don't PvP. Attitudes like that suck.
PVPers have ruined it again for PVErs with their bratty whining. And what percentage of the STO's population actually plays PVP? Then people like you wonder why people like him can't stand pvpers...
PVPers have ruined it again for PVErs with their bratty whining. And what percentage of the STO's population actually plays PVP? Then people like you wonder why people like him can't stand pvpers...
how did we ruin it?
this console will work just the same against npc's.
The disable effect change effects both pve and pvp, right?
Very, very few NPCs utilize defensive abilities, or other self-targeting powers. As such, setting their Weapons Offline and preventing them from targeting anyone is essentially the same as Disabling them. Most of the time.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
The disable effect change effects both pve and pvp, right?
Slowing them to a near stop and disabling their weapons is almost as good against an NPC (with their limited resistances and no active countering or defense) as a total disable. And against 90% of them, it's exactly as good except they could queue up abilities to use if they survive (instead of just using them after they escape).
PVPers have ruined it again for PVErs with their bratty whining. And what percentage of the STO's population actually plays PVP? Then people like you wonder why people like him can't stand pvpers...
They haven't "ruined it for PvE with their bratty whining" - There were plenty of people on both sides (PvE and PvP) that knew this console couldn't stay in its current state, it was too powerful.
It's way better than any lobi console, it's dirt cheap and extremely common.
Keeping it as it was would be BAD FOR THE GAME. I don't understand how people don't see that. It's not like they are nerfing your favourite toy, they are nerfing a brand new items which evidently had no QA done on it.
from what I can tell, without testing on tribble, is that while it is a nerf to the console for use in PvP, the boost to collapse damage combined with the weapons disable, and slowing effect may actually be a net gain for PvE. In that case, this looks like a solid balance pass that is as close to the best of both worlds as may be possible.
This console was way too powerful. it was a 'must have' for pvp and nothing should be a 'must have'.
i do understand the annoyance of having a nerf to a cool item for the benefit of a small group of people, but pvp is part of the game and it needs to be cared for.
the console still does enough to be useful in pve. its not like any battles are going to hinge on it. but they were in pvp to the poor guy who got hit by one.
My problem with the SIC console was it was a total slap in the face to science abilities since it was like a super GW+old VM effect (both of which are now near useless for science even in pve)
How did they ever think it was a good idea to put this in game oh that right people spent money on keys to get it...
They haven't "ruined it for PvE with their bratty whining" - There were plenty of people on both sides (PvE and PvP) that knew this console couldn't stay in its current state, it was too powerful.
It's way better than any lobi console, it's dirt cheap and extremely common.
Keeping it as it was would be BAD FOR THE GAME. I don't understand how people don't see that. It's not like they are nerfing your favourite toy, they are nerfing a brand new items which evidently had no QA done on it.
You made it pretty clear that you don't like PvP, or PvPers, so it was a logical assumption that you don't spend much time in the PvP Subforum....
It was my favorite toy, Q_Q. It worked great with gravity well in particular because NPCs couldn't escape it like they sometimes do.
To clarify, I do pvp myself every once in a while myself but I play mostly PVE. And now that I think about it, it's an ok balance but it still stinks for sci players. Shame for us too because Cryptic could have balanced it fine by making it only useable on sci ships. I think they nerfed mostly because of tacs abusing it. Such a shame.
Wow we have a cool console from a lockbox that is fun to use and a people whine and complain about it and it gets nerfed this is like call of duty . nerf it so the loudest complainers get what they want. While the rest of the players are left to suffer.
We will be bringing down the Tribble server for maintenance to apply a new update: ST.31.20130803a.10
General
Updates have been made to the Subspace Integration Circuit console.
The damage dealt by the rupture's collapse has been increased by about 25%.
The flight speed reduction value has been decreased from -83.33% to -80.00%.
The flight speed reduction now takes all of a target's resistances into account when calculating the magnitude.
The "Disable" component has been replaced with a "Weapons Offline" mode, while within the subspace hazard.
The occasional crash to desktop while using Gateway has been fixed.
Known Issue
The text of the Subspace Integration Circuit console still mentions it uses Disable.
Its been nerfed seriously...next time the battle should be about getting more maps for PvPs (no change since inception) NOT about this console...pick your battles more strategically...this is FAR from the I WIN button you always scared about and now PvP will be get a bad connotation...players would abandon even more than before...sad day
I for one love the changes. It will work better in pve than it did before because spheres with epte3 will now get the full speed debuff and most enemy ships don't use skills anyways so having weapons offline will be a big boost
Its been nerfed seriously...next time the battle should be about getting more maps for PvPs (no change since inception) NOT about this console...pick your battles more strategically...this is FAR from the I WIN button you always scared about and now PvP will be get a bad connotation...players would abandon even more than before...sad day
That is akin to saying, the next case the homicide unit should investigate is the one where the woman accidentally backed over the child who was riding his bike on the sidewalk. We'll deal with the serial killer's murder victim later.
New maps for PvP would be great, but they would be a minor and largely cosmetic addition, like plastic surgery. The new console was by contrast a gaping, bleeding wound that seriously disrupted PvP balance.
Can we please put a stop to this worthless "PvP vs. PvE" hot air that's being spewed back and forth on these forums lately? It is completely worthless to ongoing discussion, and the raised tempers are causing flaming and trolling to take over conversations that could otherwise be considered worthwhile feedback. This will (and already has) result in warnings and/or forum bans. Continuing with these attitudes does not serve you - the Community - any more than it serves us Devs.
Here's a simple truth: Both PvP and PvE systems exist in Star Trek Online, and therefore both systems will be supported by the Developers to the best of our abilities.
As for the console specifically - it was changed because it was not meeting its intended functionality, and exceeding its intended performance when used in this unintended manner.
The Subspace Rupture ability was designed around the notion of removing a target from an ongoing fight, to be dealt with at a later point in time. This is why we used a Perception debuff instead of a simple Hold or Placate - so that the afflicted target can't even heal their teammates while stuck in the hazard. They are completely removed from the conflict, unless they escape.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
I challenge you to try out the changes on Tribble, and leave feedback regarding the updated functionality. If this console feels as though its usefulness against NPC enemies is significantly altered or reduced, I'd like to hear about the in-game scenarios you encountered which led you to those conclusions.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Can we please put a stop to this worthless "PvP vs. PvE" hot air that's being spewed back and forth on these forums lately? It is completely worthless to ongoing discussion, and the raised tempers are causing flaming and trolling to take over conversations that could otherwise be considered worthwhile feedback. This will (and already has) result in warnings and/or forum bans. Continuing with these attitudes does not serve you - the Community - any more than it serves us Devs.
Here's a simple truth: Both PvP and PvE systems exist in Star Trek Online, and therefore both systems will be supported by the Developers to the best of our abilities.
As for the console specifically - it was changed because it was not meeting its intended functionality, and exceeding its intended performance when used in this unintended manner.
The Subspace Rupture ability was designed around the notion of removing a target from an ongoing fight, to be dealt with at a later point in time. This is why we used a Perception debuff instead of a simple Hold or Placate - so that the afflicted target can't even heal their teammates while stuck in the hazard. They are completely removed from the conflict, unless they escape.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
I challenge you to try out the changes on Tribble, and leave feedback regarding the updated functionality. If this console feels as though its usefulness against NPC enemies is significantly altered or reduced, I'd like to hear about the in-game scenarios you encountered which led you to those conclusions.
It is good to hear (and see, since action speaks more loudly than words) that the development team is taking PvP feedback seriously. Sometimes it seems like PvP is ignored completely by the developers.
The Subspace Rupture ability was designed around the notion of removing a target from an ongoing fight, to be dealt with at a later point in time. This is why we used a Perception debuff instead of a simple Hold or Placate - so that the afflicted target can't even heal their teammates while stuck in the hazard. They are completely removed from the conflict, unless they escape.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
I challenge you to try out the changes on Tribble, and leave feedback regarding the updated functionality. If this console feels as though its usefulness against NPC enemies is significantly altered or reduced, I'd like to hear about the in-game scenarios you encountered which led you to those conclusions.
Okay, just an incredibly crazy thought: If your intention was that it should remove enemies from the fight add a massive stealth buff. So the afflicted ships can't see beyond the rupture but can't be targeted from outside either.
FKA K-Tar, grumpy Klingon/El-Aurian hybrid. Now assimilated by PWE.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
Wow...now I can see how devs really take sides. If we are to remain neutral and just depend on pure OBJECTIVE feedback...how is it that some members that have "good" connections to DEVS (I wont say the E word- for respect and sanctioning) suddenly cry foul for something so insignificant as a console while lots of countless of people who ask about a fix (for instance Tour of the galaxy which had over 100 pages of feedback click here-we even come up with a GREAT solution) yet those voices were shrugged off in favor for the few as in this case with the console. This is a double standard and you should not play sides when it comes to RECEPTIVE feedback.
If you are fixing exploits to make players suffer do it across the board rather than choose sides. Feedback is feedback no matter where it comes. Just being objective.
It is good to hear (and see, since action speaks more loudly than words) that the development team is taking PvP feedback seriously. Sometimes it seems like PvP is ignored completely by the developers.
You'll never get an intended effect at the start. There are always multiple scenarios. I see now there wasan oversight by the devs. If it was intended for taking one out of the fight. Why did you not make the person untargetable?
Can we please put a stop to this worthless "PvP vs. PvE" hot air that's being spewed back and forth on these forums lately? It is completely worthless to ongoing discussion, and the raised tempers are causing flaming and trolling to take over conversations that could otherwise be considered worthwhile feedback. This will (and already has) result in warnings and/or forum bans. Continuing with these attitudes does not serve you - the Community - any more than it serves us Devs.
You know what? That was out of line. Depending on the mood of the moderators, such a tone might get a normal member a warning.
Can we please put a stop to this worthless "PvP vs. PvE" hot air that's being spewed back and forth on these forums lately? It is completely worthless to ongoing discussion, and the raised tempers are causing flaming and trolling to take over conversations that could otherwise be considered worthwhile feedback. This will (and already has) result in warnings and/or forum bans. Continuing with these attitudes does not serve you - the Community - any more than it serves us Devs.
Here's a simple truth: Both PvP and PvE systems exist in Star Trek Online, and therefore both systems will be supported by the Developers to the best of our abilities.
As for the console specifically - it was changed because it was not meeting its intended functionality, and exceeding its intended performance when used in this unintended manner.
The Subspace Rupture ability was designed around the notion of removing a target from an ongoing fight, to be dealt with at a later point in time. This is why we used a Perception debuff instead of a simple Hold or Placate - so that the afflicted target can't even heal their teammates while stuck in the hazard. They are completely removed from the conflict, unless they escape.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
I challenge you to try out the changes on Tribble, and leave feedback regarding the updated functionality. If this console feels as though its usefulness against NPC enemies is significantly altered or reduced, I'd like to hear about the in-game scenarios you encountered which led you to those conclusions.
i like the sound of that original purpose, the only thing the console was missing is not being able to target the person you used the console on, so it cant be used as a hold still while I destroy you device.
there wont be a significant reduction in npc usefulness, infact that boosted damage will make it better then ever in pve. if thats not plainly obvious to you, stop posting about it and making your self look dumb. you can use station powers wile the console is used on you. wow, big deal, considering NPCs have an average of 2 station powers, each having a cooldown smiler to the console you just used.
I take it Cryptic's "New Approach On Consoles" includes them being bound from the Lockbox and thus not sell-able in an attempt to generate moar Lockbox Key purchases?
Updates have been made to the Subspace Integration Circuit console.
The damage dealt by the rupture's collapse has been increased by about 25%.
It got BUFFED!!
25% more damage, in an AoE!
This should be more awesome for PvE now!!
I was already sending NPCs on wave 9 and 10 of NWS into some hellish dimension and now I get to do more damage with this all at the cost of a disable that didn't do anything to NPCs anyway?
Can we please put a stop to this worthless "PvP vs. PvE" hot air that's being spewed back and forth on these forums lately? It is completely worthless to ongoing discussion, and the raised tempers are causing flaming and trolling to take over conversations that could otherwise be considered worthwhile feedback. This will (and already has) result in warnings and/or forum bans. Continuing with these attitudes does not serve you - the Community - any more than it serves us Devs.
Here's a simple truth: Both PvP and PvE systems exist in Star Trek Online, and therefore both systems will be supported by the Developers to the best of our abilities.
As for the console specifically - it was changed because it was not meeting its intended functionality, and exceeding its intended performance when used in this unintended manner.
The Subspace Rupture ability was designed around the notion of removing a target from an ongoing fight, to be dealt with at a later point in time. This is why we used a Perception debuff instead of a simple Hold or Placate - so that the afflicted target can't even heal their teammates while stuck in the hazard. They are completely removed from the conflict, unless they escape.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
I challenge you to try out the changes on Tribble, and leave feedback regarding the updated functionality. If this console feels as though its usefulness against NPC enemies is significantly altered or reduced, I'd like to hear about the in-game scenarios you encountered which led you to those conclusions.
Bort I'm really sorry for all of the flak some people are tossing your way on this.
These changes seem like a really good compromise, that brings the item more in-line with the original design intent.
You know what? That was out of line. Depending on the mood of the moderators, such a tone might get a normal member a warning.
The devs are the mods of the mods and what he said was perfectly civil. That being said, I wish pvp had a hardcore mode that disallowed the use of lock box/c store consoles. That way both the PVE and PVP crowd could get what it wanted.
Updates have been made to the Subspace Integration Circuit console.
The damage dealt by the rupture's collapse has been increased by about 25%.
It got BUFFED!!
25% more damage, in an AoE!
This should be more awesome for PvE now!!
I was already sending NPCs on wave 9 and 10 of NWS into some hellish dimension and now I get to do more damage with this all at the cost of a disable that didn't do anything to NPCs anyway?
This, is awesome.
with how dumbed down the game is to cater to those that use their ship to 10% of its potentate, about 60% of players, i guess there should be no surprise at the insane reactions they have to changes that actually benefit them.
Wow...now I can see how devs really take sides. If we are to remain neutral and just depend on pure OBJECTIVE feedback...how is it that some members that have "good" connections to DEVS (I wont say the E word- for respect and sanctioning) suddenly cry foul for something so insignificant as a console while lots of countless of people who ask about a fix (for instance Tour of the galaxy which had over 100 pages of feedback click here-we even come up with a GREAT solution) yet those voices were shrugged off in favor for the few as in this case with the console
Because some people understand game mechanics, and others don't. 100+ pages of people saying "I don't like this change it hurts my wallet" isn't useful. Tour had to be curbed, as to vendor prices (expect this!) because it was generating far too much EC.
The Tour nerf (IMHO) was a start to trying to curb inflation which has been rife in this game for a long time.
It wasn't "100 pages of feedback" it was 90 pages of complaining, and 10 pages of feedback. I'm being generous.
Comments
PVPers have ruined it again for PVErs with their bratty whining. And what percentage of the STO's population actually plays PVP? Then people like you wonder why people like him can't stand pvpers...
How do you know where I have or haven't been? Do you work for the NSA?
how did we ruin it?
this console will work just the same against npc's.
Do you even Science Bro?
The disable effect change effects both pve and pvp, right?
Very, very few NPCs utilize defensive abilities, or other self-targeting powers. As such, setting their Weapons Offline and preventing them from targeting anyone is essentially the same as Disabling them. Most of the time.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Slowing them to a near stop and disabling their weapons is almost as good against an NPC (with their limited resistances and no active countering or defense) as a total disable. And against 90% of them, it's exactly as good except they could queue up abilities to use if they survive (instead of just using them after they escape).
They haven't "ruined it for PvE with their bratty whining" - There were plenty of people on both sides (PvE and PvP) that knew this console couldn't stay in its current state, it was too powerful.
It's way better than any lobi console, it's dirt cheap and extremely common.
Keeping it as it was would be BAD FOR THE GAME. I don't understand how people don't see that. It's not like they are nerfing your favourite toy, they are nerfing a brand new items which evidently had no QA done on it.
You made it pretty clear that you don't like PvP, or PvPers, so it was a logical assumption that you don't spend much time in the PvP Subforum....
Kirk's Protege.
Derrick - Fed Eng
i do understand the annoyance of having a nerf to a cool item for the benefit of a small group of people, but pvp is part of the game and it needs to be cared for.
the console still does enough to be useful in pve. its not like any battles are going to hinge on it. but they were in pvp to the poor guy who got hit by one.
How did they ever think it was a good idea to put this in game oh that right people spent money on keys to get it...
It was my favorite toy, Q_Q. It worked great with gravity well in particular because NPCs couldn't escape it like they sometimes do.
To clarify, I do pvp myself every once in a while myself but I play mostly PVE. And now that I think about it, it's an ok balance but it still stinks for sci players. Shame for us too because Cryptic could have balanced it fine by making it only useable on sci ships. I think they nerfed mostly because of tacs abusing it. Such a shame.
Here's a simple truth: Both PvP and PvE systems exist in Star Trek Online, and therefore both systems will be supported by the Developers to the best of our abilities.
As for the console specifically - it was changed because it was not meeting its intended functionality, and exceeding its intended performance when used in this unintended manner.
The Subspace Rupture ability was designed around the notion of removing a target from an ongoing fight, to be dealt with at a later point in time. This is why we used a Perception debuff instead of a simple Hold or Placate - so that the afflicted target can't even heal their teammates while stuck in the hazard. They are completely removed from the conflict, unless they escape.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
I challenge you to try out the changes on Tribble, and leave feedback regarding the updated functionality. If this console feels as though its usefulness against NPC enemies is significantly altered or reduced, I'd like to hear about the in-game scenarios you encountered which led you to those conclusions.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
It is good to hear (and see, since action speaks more loudly than words) that the development team is taking PvP feedback seriously. Sometimes it seems like PvP is ignored completely by the developers.
Okay, just an incredibly crazy thought: If your intention was that it should remove enemies from the fight add a massive stealth buff. So the afflicted ships can't see beyond the rupture but can't be targeted from outside either.
Sometimes, if you want to bury the hatchet with a Klingon, it has to be in his skull. - Captain K'Tar of the USS Danu about J'mpok.
If you are fixing exploits to make players suffer do it across the board rather than choose sides. Feedback is feedback no matter where it comes. Just being objective.
You'll never get an intended effect at the start. There are always multiple scenarios. I see now there wasan oversight by the devs. If it was intended for taking one out of the fight. Why did you not make the person untargetable?
You know what? That was out of line. Depending on the mood of the moderators, such a tone might get a normal member a warning.
i like the sound of that original purpose, the only thing the console was missing is not being able to target the person you used the console on, so it cant be used as a hold still while I destroy you device.
there wont be a significant reduction in npc usefulness, infact that boosted damage will make it better then ever in pve. if thats not plainly obvious to you, stop posting about it and making your self look dumb. you can use station powers wile the console is used on you. wow, big deal, considering NPCs have an average of 2 station powers, each having a cooldown smiler to the console you just used.
I take it Cryptic's "New Approach On Consoles" includes them being bound from the Lockbox and thus not sell-able in an attempt to generate moar Lockbox Key purchases?
Updates have been made to the Subspace Integration Circuit console.
It got BUFFED!!
25% more damage, in an AoE!
This should be more awesome for PvE now!!
I was already sending NPCs on wave 9 and 10 of NWS into some hellish dimension and now I get to do more damage with this all at the cost of a disable that didn't do anything to NPCs anyway?
This, is awesome.
Bort I'm really sorry for all of the flak some people are tossing your way on this.
These changes seem like a really good compromise, that brings the item more in-line with the original design intent.
The devs are the mods of the mods and what he said was perfectly civil. That being said, I wish pvp had a hardcore mode that disallowed the use of lock box/c store consoles. That way both the PVE and PVP crowd could get what it wanted.
with how dumbed down the game is to cater to those that use their ship to 10% of its potentate, about 60% of players, i guess there should be no surprise at the insane reactions they have to changes that actually benefit them.
Got any liquid nitrogen? :cool:
Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.
Because some people understand game mechanics, and others don't. 100+ pages of people saying "I don't like this change it hurts my wallet" isn't useful. Tour had to be curbed, as to vendor prices (expect this!) because it was generating far too much EC.
The Tour nerf (IMHO) was a start to trying to curb inflation which has been rife in this game for a long time.
It wasn't "100 pages of feedback" it was 90 pages of complaining, and 10 pages of feedback. I'm being generous.
Kirk's Protege.