I was already sending NPCs on wave 9 and 10 of NWS into some hellish dimension and now I get to do more damage with this all at the cost of a disable that didn't do anything to NPCs anyway?
This, is awesome.
I thought more of you Ultimatum, do we really need to make NWS any easier? I know you're supremely confident in it, do you really need this?
NWS needs a serious buff, because it's getting far too easy. It hasn't been a "no win scenario" for a long time, it's turned into a "sometimes win scenario" - and more recently it's getting to a "Moderately easy scenario" which really sucks IMHO
You know what? That was out of line. Depending on the mood of the moderators, such a tone might get a normal member a warning.
You know what? The man was making a very valid point, and being perfectly reasonable about it. Discussions on this forum do tend to get very polarising and are often quickly raised to a metalevel beyond the topic at hand, reduced to unproductive repetitions of moves between fixed positions. If discussions could remain on topic and civil more often, I'd wager they would turn out more productive for all parties involved - including the devs and, consequently, the game at large. I read that as an appeal to common decency and reason, and as such a very valid comment, reflecting on many threads seen on these boards.
As for the changes, I'm curious to see how they'll pan out, but I think there might well be something good there for everybody.
Can we please put a stop to this worthless "PvP vs. PvE" hot air that's being spewed back and forth on these forums lately? It is completely worthless to ongoing discussion, and the raised tempers are causing flaming and trolling to take over conversations that could otherwise be considered worthwhile feedback. This will (and already has) result in warnings and/or forum bans. Continuing with these attitudes does not serve you - the Community - any more than it serves us Devs.
Here's a simple truth: Both PvP and PvE systems exist in Star Trek Online, and therefore both systems will be supported by the Developers to the best of our abilities.
As for the console specifically - it was changed because it was not meeting its intended functionality, and exceeding its intended performance when used in this unintended manner.
The Subspace Rupture ability was designed around the notion of removing a target from an ongoing fight, to be dealt with at a later point in time. This is why we used a Perception debuff instead of a simple Hold or Placate - so that the afflicted target can't even heal their teammates while stuck in the hazard. They are completely removed from the conflict, unless they escape.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
I challenge you to try out the changes on Tribble, and leave feedback regarding the updated functionality. If this console feels as though its usefulness against NPC enemies is significantly altered or reduced, I'd like to hear about the in-game scenarios you encountered which led you to those conclusions.
I'm gonna be honest, I bitched just yesterday about what I thought was a long-standing refusal to discuss WAI. This is a really great post because it contains "here's what we were trying to do" and "here's how it actually played out." Much appreciated.
I'll add that I've found at least 2 NPC's (Donatra and Siege ships in SB defense) that continued to target and fire from inside the AoE, so this would seem on the surface to be an actual buff. Of course, those levels of NPCs might be appropriate for a resistance or immunity to something like this, so...
Can we please put a stop to this worthless "PvP vs. PvE" hot air that's being spewed back and forth on these forums lately? It is completely worthless to ongoing discussion, and the raised tempers are causing flaming and trolling to take over conversations that could otherwise be considered worthwhile feedback. This will (and already has) result in warnings and/or forum bans. Continuing with these attitudes does not serve you - the Community - any more than it serves us Devs.
Here's a simple truth: Both PvP and PvE systems exist in Star Trek Online, and therefore both systems will be supported by the Developers to the best of our abilities.
As for the console specifically - it was changed because it was not meeting its intended functionality, and exceeding its intended performance when used in this unintended manner.
The Subspace Rupture ability was designed around the notion of removing a target from an ongoing fight, to be dealt with at a later point in time. This is why we used a Perception debuff instead of a simple Hold or Placate - so that the afflicted target can't even heal their teammates while stuck in the hazard. They are completely removed from the conflict, unless they escape.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
I challenge you to try out the changes on Tribble, and leave feedback regarding the updated functionality. If this console feels as though its usefulness against NPC enemies is significantly altered or reduced, I'd like to hear about the in-game scenarios you encountered which led you to those conclusions.
How about this for feedback on usefulness against NPC enemies been significantly altered or reduced. Let me give you one example it comes now in my mind: the spheares in ISE. With the pre-nerf console they could be stoped from using their EPtE. Now with this nerf they cant. How usefull their weapons offline will be when they run out from you and bug themself into the gate, making themselfs untargetable/unshotable/unkillable till they finally decide to get out, hmm?
And i've seen ppl (well most PvPers) been shocked that most ppl hate the fact the EPtE was given to the spheares. Now lets me ask you something. Would you like a player enemy that runs away from you and bugs into something thus you cant hit/kill it?? And btw I am not anti-buffing the NPCs, by all means, give the damm spheares, EPtS, FAW, BO etc. Or even give the neg'vars and bops from cure cloak aswell. But not some ability that actually makes them annoing amd time wasting.
NWS needs a serious buff, because it's getting far too easy. It hasn't been a "no win scenario" for a long time, it's turned into a "sometimes win scenario" - and more recently it's getting to a "Moderately easy scenario" which really sucks IMHO
IMO actually it needs a nerf on its rewards rather. I am suggesting to devs a cut down to half or 1/3 of the marks rewarded becouse its creates an inflation of fleet marks. Its generating allready far too much fleet marks.
I take it Cryptic's "New Approach On Consoles" includes them being bound from the Lockbox and thus not sell-able in an attempt to generate moar Lockbox Key purchases?
Look under engineering consoles. Yes, I know it's universal, just trust me, it shows up under engineering.
You know what? The man was making a very valid point, and being perfectly reasonable about it.
Yeah, well I've been warned here for a demeanor no more hostile than that. If this is someone's little double-standard, echo chamber fiefdom, they need to abandon the pretense of being open to discussion.
Aww its been nerfed to uselessness. Its sad that a handfull of ppl get to decide for the majority of players
How about this for feedback on usefulness against NPC enemies been significantly altered or reduced. Let me give you one example it comes now in my mind: the spheares in ISE. With the pre-nerf console they could be stoped from using their EPtE. Now with this nerf they cant. How usefull their weapons offline will be when they run out from you and bug themself into the gate, making themselfs untargetable/unshotable/unkillable till they finally decide to get out, hmm?
And i've seen ppl (well most PvPers) been shocked that most ppl hate the fact the EPtE was given to the spheares. Now lets me ask you something. Would you like a player enemy that runs away from you and bugs into something thus you cant hit/kill it?? And btw I am not anti-buffing the NPCs, by all means, give the damm spheares, EPtS, FAW, BO etc. Or even give the neg'vars and bops from cure cloak aswell. But not some ability that actually makes them annoing amd time wasting.
IMO actually it needs a nerf on its rewards rather. I am suggesting to devs a cut down to half or 1/3 of the marks rewarded becouse its creates an inflation of fleet marks. Its generating allready far too much fleet marks.
uhhh have you tried other actual counters to epte? like... tractor beams, shockwaves, snb's target engines etc etc?
and who are these "pvprs" that complained that an npc got a power? every pvp'r ive ever talked to advocate that ALL npc's need even more access to powers so theyre tougher on the pve'rs
did you even read all the complaints on why it was broken? in pvp a player hit by it could do NOTHING until killed/the effects wore off.
most pvp'rs just wanted the console to do what it said "disable Bridge officer powers" not "all powers anywhere/everywhere".
this is a nice compromise on cryptics end. it does more damage and still disables a target from shooting you.
Aww its been nerfed to uselessness. Its sad that a handfull of ppl get to decide for the majority of players
How about this for feedback on usefulness against NPC enemies been significantly altered or reduced. Let me give you one example it comes now in my mind: the spheares in ISE. With the pre-nerf console they could be stoped from using their EPtE. Now with this nerf they cant. How usefull their weapons offline will be when they run out from you and bug themself into the gate, making themselfs untargetable/unshotable/unkillable till they finally decide to get out, hmm?
... snip ...
1. Assuming it works vs gate (no idea I don't have the console) that means the spheres wouldn't be protected by the gate's cover fire/torps since its weapons would be offline.
2. VM (w/doffs for extra usefulness) should knock their engines offline.
3. EWP good AoE that works well w/a GW (both enhanced by doffs).
4. SNB doffs to strip the EPtE power away.
5. TB spam pets, your own TBs, TB mines.
6. Pets that drain power (in particular to engines eg Orion pets).
7. TBR (push them away from the gate).
8. SNB captain ability (what else are you saving it for?)
9. TSSE3 w/plas leech and Energy Syphon.
10. VM pets ...
11. Your own speed build to keep up w/them.
Seems there are plenty of ways to handle epte NPCs and one of the ways *untested* maybe the console that was "nerfed".
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] @Aquitaine985 Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre. 2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
Because some people understand game mechanics, and others don't. 100+ pages of people saying "I don't like this change it hurts my wallet" isn't useful. Tour had to be curbed, as to vendor prices (expect this!) because it was generating far too much EC.
The Tour nerf (IMHO) was a start to trying to curb inflation which has been rife in this game for a long time.
It wasn't "100 pages of feedback" it was 90 pages of complaining, and 10 pages of feedback. I'm being generous.
That wasn't the point...do you think of the PvP irate was "very well polished" and kept professional? If you believe the earth is flat so be it.... By looking closely you would see in the PvP threads there were people who threatened to "quit" due to the Elachi console...so don't think you are above in cloud 9 while the rest of us "don't understand game mechanics". If that wasn't so PvPrers would undertand and you wouldn't be so arrogant and hide behind a DEV to fix it the game mechanics for you.
Point being is that this is not fair when DEVS listen to some whiners with better representation in the game community rather than others (100+ pages regarding the Tour so called fix) of mere grinders who pay the bills...whining is whining...however it is how its perceived and received by DEVS that is the problem. Enough of this and to each its own but I don't agree with your viewpoint entirely but respectfully.
There's a big friggin difference between the Tour of the Universe 'discussion' and the discussion about this console. Specifically, the console was BROKEN. It was NOT doing what it was intended to do. PERIOD. Tour of the Universe was ALSO broken, and they modified it so it wasn't such an unbalanced EC generator. The devs actually care about broken mechanics/unintended effects, get used to it.
There's a difference between what the PvP community does and what the PvE community does when presented with a problem. The PvP community takes pains to CLEARLY spell out exactly what the problem is, WHY it's a problem, and suggest alternate approaches. The PvE community just whines that a toy was taken away, and loves to abuse every PvE-applicable broken mechanic (see: tricobalt mine critical-hit glitch). Yet they have the nerve to state that the PvP community 'whines and ruins PvE fun'.
I wonder how PvEers would have felt if this console were being actively used against them by pathetically-easy-to-destroy NPC enemies on a regular basis? Having their entire ship rendered helpless for 10 seconds or more? I wonder if they'd keep pointing their fingers at the PvP community and making idiotic statements about 'PvP whining'?
Lastly, if any of you folks REALLY think PvPers somehow get 'special attention' from the developers, then you are fools. Blind, ignorant fools. The PvP community has gotten NO direct development for YEARS, despite continuous requests that it be developed and numerous broken promises. The change to Ker'rat was the first direct improvement to PvP that the devs had made in a long, long time. If the PvP had this vaunted 'access' to the devs that you whine about, the PvP in this game would be in FAR better shape.
PVPers whine about this console? Maybe, but I'm NOT a PVPer really, I just play with fleetmates and the occasional pug group.
Last night, In one of those occasional fun matches with pugs, I was spammed repeatedly one after another after another by this console.
Each time, ALL powers go offline, ALL OF THEM till you pop. It's as simple as that.
Counters? I believe the ONLY counter is to run like hell when you see the probe heading your way. LOL yeah, good luck with that in a spam infested match. Who can keep track of everything coming at you at once?
The next few matches me and my team each equipped the console and surprise, surprise, the tides turned pretty quickly indeed. No skill required. No new tactics on our part other than spamming the console.
I'm sorry, but I'm in full support of any balance passes the PVP community asks for with this console.
Im curious though, what other Ellachi items are causing problems?
I thought more of you Ultimatum, do we really need to make NWS any easier? I know you're supremely confident in it, do you really need this?
NWS needs a serious buff, because it's getting far too easy. It hasn't been a "no win scenario" for a long time, it's turned into a "sometimes win scenario" - and more recently it's getting to a "Moderately easy scenario" which really sucks IMHO
I don't disagree, there just want a tongue in cheek emote available.
Hatred may be too strong a word, but it's possibly a bit of irritation over the fact that such a miniscule, insignificant portion of the game (PvP) receives anything approaching equal consideration.
There's what, two space PvP maps, three if you count Ker'rat? How much of the game should be tailored to this tiny little sliver of the pie?
Can we please put a stop to this worthless "PvP vs. PvE" hot air that's being spewed back and forth on these forums lately? It is completely worthless to ongoing discussion, and the raised tempers are causing flaming and trolling to take over conversations that could otherwise be considered worthwhile feedback. This will (and already has) result in warnings and/or forum bans. Continuing with these attitudes does not serve you - the Community - any more than it serves us Devs.
Here's a simple truth: Both PvP and PvE systems exist in Star Trek Online, and therefore both systems will be supported by the Developers to the best of our abilities.
As for the console specifically - it was changed because it was not meeting its intended functionality, and exceeding its intended performance when used in this unintended manner.
The Subspace Rupture ability was designed around the notion of removing a target from an ongoing fight, to be dealt with at a later point in time. This is why we used a Perception debuff instead of a simple Hold or Placate - so that the afflicted target can't even heal their teammates while stuck in the hazard. They are completely removed from the conflict, unless they escape.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
I challenge you to try out the changes on Tribble, and leave feedback regarding the updated functionality. If this console feels as though its usefulness against NPC enemies is significantly altered or reduced, I'd like to hear about the in-game scenarios you encountered which led you to those conclusions.
I would have been happy if they provided a counter to this console. I really just wanted a counter. But I for one am secretly glad this abominable thing is gone.
Lol 25% more insignificant damage is still insignificant. I wouldn't care much for the weapons debuff, I can already tank everything PvE in my glass escort :P. Many other abilities and weapons procs that are cheaply available to players seem a lot more useful. I'm sorry but it does seem PvE players haven't gained anything. Unless you carry the omega set, this fix is really not that impressive lol, but it is still a buff nonetheless.
I don't think they hate pvpers. I think they just don't care or get involved too much in that aspect of the game. I'm also thinking it would feel odd to PVErs that a minority community's concerns are catered to in spite of the wants of the majority. I also believe the change should be explained in details to everyone, especially to highlight how it helps PvErs, because this could quickly escalate into a volatile situation. People paid money for this.
Several people have flat out blamed pvprs for this change to the point they think we get special treatment from the devs when in fact we usually get ignored/lied to by the devs.
Hatred may be too strong a word, but it's possibly a bit of irritation over the fact that such a miniscule, insignificant portion of the game (PvP) receives anything approaching equal consideration.
There's what, two space PvP maps, three if you count Ker'rat? How much of the game should be tailored to this tiny little sliver of the pie?
Considering we're the only feedback cryptic gets when a power is used against you, I'd say we don't get listened too enough. When's the last time you ever saw a npc use a hazzard emitter? Or evasive out of the way? Or snb you when you have all your buffs up? Etc etc
Catering only to the pve crowd leads to massive imbalances in powers because there is no way to get feedback from an npc.
And dispite our requests to just make it so pvp can't have any of these p2w consoles they've said no very firmly and that they don't want to split the game in 2.
Aww its been nerfed to uselessness. Its sad that a handfull of ppl get to decide for the majority of players
How about this for feedback on usefulness against NPC enemies been significantly altered or reduced. Let me give you one example it comes now in my mind: the spheares in ISE. With the pre-nerf console they could be stoped from using their EPtE. Now with this nerf they cant. How usefull their weapons offline will be when they run out from you and bug themself into the gate, making themselfs untargetable/unshotable/unkillable till they finally decide to get out, hmm?
And i've seen ppl (well most PvPers) been shocked that most ppl hate the fact the EPtE was given to the spheares. Now lets me ask you something. Would you like a player enemy that runs away from you and bugs into something thus you cant hit/kill it?? And btw I am not anti-buffing the NPCs, by all means, give the damm spheares, EPtS, FAW, BO etc. Or even give the neg'vars and bops from cure cloak aswell. But not some ability that actually makes them annoing amd time wasting.
IMO actually it needs a nerf on its rewards rather. I am suggesting to devs a cut down to half or 1/3 of the marks rewarded becouse its creates an inflation of fleet marks. Its generating allready far too much fleet marks.
I do not believe that most "PvPers [were] shocked" about the complaints regarding the spheres. I think most of them find the change commendable because it makes the spheres behave more like a real person and it makes the Borg behave more like in canon where they will chased fleeing Starfleet Vessels or when they themselves fled from the Udine. It also takes what is by far the easiest optional to get in the ESTFs and makes it more up to par with the others.
I would argue that anything which is unfairly unbalanced in PvP is by definition unfairly unbalanced in PvE. The Borg do not come onto the forum to complain, but when you have a pay-to-win console that is so grossly overpowered against enemies (whether they be players or computer controlled), you are eventually force a situation where the Borg (or other NPCs) have to be buffed to help negate the power creep these consoles represent which will make it even more difficult for the casual player who cannot afford them to be an asset in PvE missions.
Instead, this ability was being used basically as a "Hold still while I destroy you, and you have no recourse" manuever. To make matters worse, using the console in this unintended manner was extremely effective - far more so than originally anticipated, or designed for. Since this usage didn't match the ability's original design, and exceeded our design intentions, it had to be modified to more closely resemble the console's original intent and bring its usage back in line.
My question would honestly be - with all the MMO development experience Cryptic has dating all the way back to "City of Heroes" - why wasn't this discovered and squashed in your internal playtesting and QA?
I ask because this isn't the first time something as unbalancing as this has made it on to the Live servers. Cryptic often claims it wants to improve PvP across all it MMOs, yet stuff like this still makes it through internal testing, requiring drastic action that in the end, just makes any PvP development look amateurish at best.
If this kind of thing happened once in a while, yeah, okay, no one can catch everything; but this cycle seems to be repeated with EVERY lockbox console that gets on the Live server.
If you really want to improve PvP, you have to have testing procedures in place that will catch this kind of imbalance before pushing it onto the Live servers. At worst it should have been caught on Tribble, but Cryptic still seems to push stuff from Tribble over to Live EXCEEDINGLY fast - and doesn't look at the player feedback until the data mining shows things are WAY out of hand.
Using this paradigm of pushing stuff Live, IMO, it's no wonder STO can't really draw in new, or retain existing PvPers for long.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
PVP folks are already crying butthertz over this and the rest of the Elachi gear.
Rather than come up with new builds, new tactics and actually THINK for once they demand that everyone else (the vast majority) cater to them.
Enjoy it while it lasts -- it'll be dumbed down to a fancy grav-well within two patches.
How is it, that a small portion of the playerbase can get **** changed in weeks yet the majority of the players ask for a "Change character" button and it takes YEARS?
That makes no damn sense.
Here's an idea, don't want to be crushed in the subspace fissure? Move. It doesn't follow you.
Here's an idea, don't want to be crushed in the subspace fissure? Move. It doesn't follow you.
But... it does.
That torp WILL track you, follow you, hunt you down, and it WILL hit you. And, despite people's best efforts, it'll lock you down unless you've preemptively got buffs going (which is incredibly hard to time due to the chaotic nature of PvP).
Regardless, it ended up being a semi-buff to it's PvE applications.
Now you can stop the Gate from firing to lay down EWP to stop the dreaded fleeing Spheres.
Now you can lulzify a Tac Cube.
Now you can stop the ships that slip through from harassing the Kang.
Now you can safely destroy the Nanite Transformers that are healing the Cubes in Cure without being fired upon.
Now you can get close to Gates for higher damage Cannon strikes.
Now you can nullify the Assimilated Carrier's pets.
And now it does more damage.
It's still useful in PvP because you can use it to stop (or at least partially delay) an Escort's Alpha, giving you time to either get out of it's arc or preemptively buff up/heal an ally.
But no, it's "useless" because it doesn't leave the NPCs defenseless and doesn't cause them to roll over dead. Right?
PVP folks are already crying butthertz over this and the rest of the Elachi gear.
Rather than come up with new builds, new tactics and actually THINK for once they demand that everyone else (the vast majority) cater to them.
Enjoy it while it lasts -- it'll be dumbed down to a fancy grav-well within two patches.
The PvE community would be crying butthertz if Borg cubes started firing this.
__________________________________
STO Forum member since before February 2010. STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
Hatred may be too strong a word, but it's possibly a bit of irritation over the fact that such a miniscule, insignificant portion of the game (PvP) receives anything approaching equal consideration.
There's what, two space PvP maps, three if you count Ker'rat? How much of the game should be tailored to this tiny little sliver of the pie?
Tiny little sliver?
The amount of people who PvP are far greater than you realise.
But most of us do not predominantly PvP.
But this so called insignificant portion of the game is the primary driving force behind the games player driven economy.
Who do you think it is that pays absurd amounts for [Acc]x3 weapons and Very Rare Mk XII consoles, provided by PvE'ers?
Why do you think the JHAS is in such incredibly high demand and fetches an extremely high price?
How is it, that a small portion of the playerbase can get **** changed in weeks yet the majority of the players ask for a "Change character" button and it takes YEARS?
That makes no damn sense.
Here's an idea, don't want to be crushed in the subspace fissure? Move. It doesn't follow you.
One takes less than a day to change a fairly small amount of code.
The other involves the underlining code and must be well thought out since it serves as the point of entry in order to play the game at all.
The changes take different skill/knowledge sets, so peter wasn't robbed to pay paul in this case.
Things most PvPers didn't want that happened or wanted that didn't happen (short list version):
1. Any significant Dev time on development.
2. No pay for power.
3. Foundry PvP map creation options.
4. PvP Season
5. Territorial Control
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
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C&H Fed banter
Comments
I thought more of you Ultimatum, do we really need to make NWS any easier? I know you're supremely confident in it, do you really need this?
NWS needs a serious buff, because it's getting far too easy. It hasn't been a "no win scenario" for a long time, it's turned into a "sometimes win scenario" - and more recently it's getting to a "Moderately easy scenario" which really sucks IMHO
Kirk's Protege.
You know what? The man was making a very valid point, and being perfectly reasonable about it. Discussions on this forum do tend to get very polarising and are often quickly raised to a metalevel beyond the topic at hand, reduced to unproductive repetitions of moves between fixed positions. If discussions could remain on topic and civil more often, I'd wager they would turn out more productive for all parties involved - including the devs and, consequently, the game at large. I read that as an appeal to common decency and reason, and as such a very valid comment, reflecting on many threads seen on these boards.
As for the changes, I'm curious to see how they'll pan out, but I think there might well be something good there for everybody.
*cheers*
http://qkme.me/3vjw8l
I'm gonna be honest, I bitched just yesterday about what I thought was a long-standing refusal to discuss WAI. This is a really great post because it contains "here's what we were trying to do" and "here's how it actually played out." Much appreciated.
I'll add that I've found at least 2 NPC's (Donatra and Siege ships in SB defense) that continued to target and fire from inside the AoE, so this would seem on the surface to be an actual buff. Of course, those levels of NPCs might be appropriate for a resistance or immunity to something like this, so...
How about this for feedback on usefulness against NPC enemies been significantly altered or reduced. Let me give you one example it comes now in my mind: the spheares in ISE. With the pre-nerf console they could be stoped from using their EPtE. Now with this nerf they cant. How usefull their weapons offline will be when they run out from you and bug themself into the gate, making themselfs untargetable/unshotable/unkillable till they finally decide to get out, hmm?
And i've seen ppl (well most PvPers) been shocked that most ppl hate the fact the EPtE was given to the spheares. Now lets me ask you something. Would you like a player enemy that runs away from you and bugs into something thus you cant hit/kill it?? And btw I am not anti-buffing the NPCs, by all means, give the damm spheares, EPtS, FAW, BO etc. Or even give the neg'vars and bops from cure cloak aswell. But not some ability that actually makes them annoing amd time wasting.
IMO actually it needs a nerf on its rewards rather. I am suggesting to devs a cut down to half or 1/3 of the marks rewarded becouse its creates an inflation of fleet marks. Its generating allready far too much fleet marks.
Look under engineering consoles. Yes, I know it's universal, just trust me, it shows up under engineering.
Yeah, well I've been warned here for a demeanor no more hostile than that. If this is someone's little double-standard, echo chamber fiefdom, they need to abandon the pretense of being open to discussion.
Hello Grace, it's Jad. Needless to say I disagree with pretty much everything you said, but who cares eh
Kirk's Protege.
uhhh have you tried other actual counters to epte? like... tractor beams, shockwaves, snb's target engines etc etc?
and who are these "pvprs" that complained that an npc got a power? every pvp'r ive ever talked to advocate that ALL npc's need even more access to powers so theyre tougher on the pve'rs
did you even read all the complaints on why it was broken? in pvp a player hit by it could do NOTHING until killed/the effects wore off.
most pvp'rs just wanted the console to do what it said "disable Bridge officer powers" not "all powers anywhere/everywhere".
this is a nice compromise on cryptics end. it does more damage and still disables a target from shooting you.
why do pve'rs hate pvp'rs so much?
Do you even Science Bro?
Ignorance for the most part, and I say that as a strict PvE player.
Kirk's Protege.
1. Assuming it works vs gate (no idea I don't have the console) that means the spheres wouldn't be protected by the gate's cover fire/torps since its weapons would be offline.
2. VM (w/doffs for extra usefulness) should knock their engines offline.
3. EWP good AoE that works well w/a GW (both enhanced by doffs).
4. SNB doffs to strip the EPtE power away.
5. TB spam pets, your own TBs, TB mines.
6. Pets that drain power (in particular to engines eg Orion pets).
7. TBR (push them away from the gate).
8. SNB captain ability (what else are you saving it for?)
9. TSSE3 w/plas leech and Energy Syphon.
10. VM pets ...
11. Your own speed build to keep up w/them.
Seems there are plenty of ways to handle epte NPCs and one of the ways *untested* maybe the console that was "nerfed".
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
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People often fear intelligence...
@Aquitaine985
Lag Industries STO PvP Fleet - Executive
A Sad Panda of Industrial calibre.
2010: This is Cryptic PvP. Please hold the line, your call is very important to us...
That wasn't the point...do you think of the PvP irate was "very well polished" and kept professional? If you believe the earth is flat so be it.... By looking closely you would see in the PvP threads there were people who threatened to "quit" due to the Elachi console...so don't think you are above in cloud 9 while the rest of us "don't understand game mechanics". If that wasn't so PvPrers would undertand and you wouldn't be so arrogant and hide behind a DEV to fix it the game mechanics for you.
Point being is that this is not fair when DEVS listen to some whiners with better representation in the game community rather than others (100+ pages regarding the Tour so called fix) of mere grinders who pay the bills...whining is whining...however it is how its perceived and received by DEVS that is the problem. Enough of this and to each its own but I don't agree with your viewpoint entirely but respectfully.
There's a difference between what the PvP community does and what the PvE community does when presented with a problem. The PvP community takes pains to CLEARLY spell out exactly what the problem is, WHY it's a problem, and suggest alternate approaches. The PvE community just whines that a toy was taken away, and loves to abuse every PvE-applicable broken mechanic (see: tricobalt mine critical-hit glitch). Yet they have the nerve to state that the PvP community 'whines and ruins PvE fun'.
I wonder how PvEers would have felt if this console were being actively used against them by pathetically-easy-to-destroy NPC enemies on a regular basis? Having their entire ship rendered helpless for 10 seconds or more? I wonder if they'd keep pointing their fingers at the PvP community and making idiotic statements about 'PvP whining'?
Lastly, if any of you folks REALLY think PvPers somehow get 'special attention' from the developers, then you are fools. Blind, ignorant fools. The PvP community has gotten NO direct development for YEARS, despite continuous requests that it be developed and numerous broken promises. The change to Ker'rat was the first direct improvement to PvP that the devs had made in a long, long time. If the PvP had this vaunted 'access' to the devs that you whine about, the PvP in this game would be in FAR better shape.
Last night, In one of those occasional fun matches with pugs, I was spammed repeatedly one after another after another by this console.
Each time, ALL powers go offline, ALL OF THEM till you pop. It's as simple as that.
Counters? I believe the ONLY counter is to run like hell when you see the probe heading your way. LOL yeah, good luck with that in a spam infested match. Who can keep track of everything coming at you at once?
The next few matches me and my team each equipped the console and surprise, surprise, the tides turned pretty quickly indeed. No skill required. No new tactics on our part other than spamming the console.
I'm sorry, but I'm in full support of any balance passes the PVP community asks for with this console.
Im curious though, what other Ellachi items are causing problems?
I don't disagree, there just want a tongue in cheek emote available.
Hatred may be too strong a word, but it's possibly a bit of irritation over the fact that such a miniscule, insignificant portion of the game (PvP) receives anything approaching equal consideration.
There's what, two space PvP maps, three if you count Ker'rat? How much of the game should be tailored to this tiny little sliver of the pie?
Here's your detailed explanation.
Several people have flat out blamed pvprs for this change to the point they think we get special treatment from the devs when in fact we usually get ignored/lied to by the devs.
The way Pve'rs and the devs treat us makes me sad
Considering we're the only feedback cryptic gets when a power is used against you, I'd say we don't get listened too enough. When's the last time you ever saw a npc use a hazzard emitter? Or evasive out of the way? Or snb you when you have all your buffs up? Etc etc
Catering only to the pve crowd leads to massive imbalances in powers because there is no way to get feedback from an npc.
And dispite our requests to just make it so pvp can't have any of these p2w consoles they've said no very firmly and that they don't want to split the game in 2.
Do you even Science Bro?
I do not believe that most "PvPers [were] shocked" about the complaints regarding the spheres. I think most of them find the change commendable because it makes the spheres behave more like a real person and it makes the Borg behave more like in canon where they will chased fleeing Starfleet Vessels or when they themselves fled from the Udine. It also takes what is by far the easiest optional to get in the ESTFs and makes it more up to par with the others.
I would argue that anything which is unfairly unbalanced in PvP is by definition unfairly unbalanced in PvE. The Borg do not come onto the forum to complain, but when you have a pay-to-win console that is so grossly overpowered against enemies (whether they be players or computer controlled), you are eventually force a situation where the Borg (or other NPCs) have to be buffed to help negate the power creep these consoles represent which will make it even more difficult for the casual player who cannot afford them to be an asset in PvE missions.
Oh really? People were threatening to quit?
I've never seen that before on these forums. The devs must have seen that an immediately changed the design to stop those people from leaving.
Bwahahahaha.
Kirk's Protege.
My question would honestly be - with all the MMO development experience Cryptic has dating all the way back to "City of Heroes" - why wasn't this discovered and squashed in your internal playtesting and QA?
I ask because this isn't the first time something as unbalancing as this has made it on to the Live servers. Cryptic often claims it wants to improve PvP across all it MMOs, yet stuff like this still makes it through internal testing, requiring drastic action that in the end, just makes any PvP development look amateurish at best.
If this kind of thing happened once in a while, yeah, okay, no one can catch everything; but this cycle seems to be repeated with EVERY lockbox console that gets on the Live server.
If you really want to improve PvP, you have to have testing procedures in place that will catch this kind of imbalance before pushing it onto the Live servers. At worst it should have been caught on Tribble, but Cryptic still seems to push stuff from Tribble over to Live EXCEEDINGLY fast - and doesn't look at the player feedback until the data mining shows things are WAY out of hand.
Using this paradigm of pushing stuff Live, IMO, it's no wonder STO can't really draw in new, or retain existing PvPers for long.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
How is it, that a small portion of the playerbase can get **** changed in weeks yet the majority of the players ask for a "Change character" button and it takes YEARS?
That makes no damn sense.
Here's an idea, don't want to be crushed in the subspace fissure? Move. It doesn't follow you.
But... it does.
That torp WILL track you, follow you, hunt you down, and it WILL hit you. And, despite people's best efforts, it'll lock you down unless you've preemptively got buffs going (which is incredibly hard to time due to the chaotic nature of PvP).
Regardless, it ended up being a semi-buff to it's PvE applications.
It's still useful in PvP because you can use it to stop (or at least partially delay) an Escort's Alpha, giving you time to either get out of it's arc or preemptively buff up/heal an ally.
But no, it's "useless" because it doesn't leave the NPCs defenseless and doesn't cause them to roll over dead. Right?
IKR?
makes me laugh a little every time too...;)
---- FIRE EVERYTHING ! ----
The PvE community would be crying butthertz if Borg cubes started firing this.
STO Forum member since before February 2010.
STO Academy's excellent skill planner here: Link
I actually avoid success entirely. It doesn't get me what I want, and the consequences for failure are slim. -- markhawman
hahahahahaha crying ???? lord the tears would flow like rain
Tiny little sliver?
The amount of people who PvP are far greater than you realise.
But most of us do not predominantly PvP.
But this so called insignificant portion of the game is the primary driving force behind the games player driven economy.
Who do you think it is that pays absurd amounts for [Acc]x3 weapons and Very Rare Mk XII consoles, provided by PvE'ers?
Why do you think the JHAS is in such incredibly high demand and fetches an extremely high price?
Answer: PvP
One takes less than a day to change a fairly small amount of code.
The other involves the underlining code and must be well thought out since it serves as the point of entry in order to play the game at all.
The changes take different skill/knowledge sets, so peter wasn't robbed to pay paul in this case.
Things most PvPers didn't want that happened or wanted that didn't happen (short list version):
1. Any significant Dev time on development.
2. No pay for power.
3. Foundry PvP map creation options.
4. PvP Season
5. Territorial Control
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter