An I-Win button is never a good thing, be it PvE or PvP.
Which is exactly what this console is, not to mention that for PvE it is completely redundant.
1) how to you make a console powerful for PvE and not OP in PvP?
2) how to you get something powerful into the hands of low skill - lower level ships/gear to newer PvP players that gets them some kills and makes them participate rather than sitting afk or leaving after just being cannon fodder for the elite players?
Easy answers.
1. Make it so it is focused on PvE only stuff. Like the old Borg weapons, or the various DOFFs which boost damage against certain NPCs, that sort of thing. Cheesing it up against the PvE content is all well and good, and if they want to, then they should, as long as it's focused on that.
No PvPer EVER complained that the 'Tholian DOFFs were too powerful' or 'Borg weapons are too effective'. Hell, if anything, them removing Borg weapons made it HARDER to PvP, because it took away a major source of easy weaponry for a lot of players (and this was in the days of not everyone really cared about fleet weapons, because Borg weapons were a lot easier to get).
2. Simple. Show them how to actually play the game, make them NEED to learn how to play. I think the playerbase, the entire playerbase mind you, needs a dosage of 'tough love'. Show them how everything works, let them win a bit. Then show them more, including how teamwork is the most effective thing in this game.
No amount of power creep or 'l33t' stuff will change that. If people don't really know the game, how can they know PvP?
That is why power creep is so bad for this game, particularly PvP-wise (and hell, even PvE-wise). Because while it can potentially help newer players, it still helps out the old veterans who are simply going to take the new stuff (if they feel it's worth while), and put it on their ships, while still having all the same skills and knowledge they did before, while the newer player will only have the new toys and nothing else.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Because it creates an arbitrary discrepancy of mechanics and unnecessary barrier to entry.
Take a look at the "nerf" anyway. Still pretty effectively shuts down NPCs and does even more damage, but only shoves the first six inches of the bat up a player.
It's possible I could have missed the Quantum Manipulation symbol, never say never, it still doesn't explain the full heal 10 sec later. At the time it disappear, that ship had virtually no shield left on all facings and hull is about 30% left, and far from the rest of its team. Sure, there are all kind of possibilities, but the whole match felt very weird as the Sad Pandas had like 3 Wells. Like I said, only thing to show is it to take video clip so that it can be reviewed in public. Let's just say I have some serious doubts and leave it at that.
Hmm, the full heal is theoretically doable. Backstep while under influence (no reticle), the boost to sci-skills and thus healing from Quantum manip, with full Aux Power, AtS, EPtS, HE2/3, TSS and ST, and you've got yourself healed to full. Add on a team heal here and there, and it's all gravy.
Well, all right, but you really should avoid making such severe claims until you've actually got the evidence. It's slanderous.:P
Impossible, there was no Nebula in the match. Check out virusdancer's stealth detection thread, at over 5700 stealth, it is mathematically impossible to be detected at 7KM away.
I was referring to the T3 console, but never mind. Do you have a link to the thread, by any chance? I can't seem to find it.
Well the nerf has hit tribble, seems pretty fair to me. I like it, it makes it still situationally useful not not an OP powerhouse that it currently is.
Well the nerf has hit tribble, seems pretty fair to me. I like it, it makes it still situationally useful not not an OP powerhouse that it currently is.
Well the nerf has hit tribble, seems pretty fair to me. I like it, it makes it still situationally useful not not an OP powerhouse that it currently is.
Going to have to try it, but honestly looks like it might be a marginal improvement for PVE, or at least a wash - more damage, and a large slow that doesn't ignore defenses plus weapons offline shuts down most NPCs a lot more effectively than it would a player.
Well the nerf has hit tribble, seems pretty fair to me. I like it, it makes it still situationally useful not not an OP powerhouse that it currently is.
2. Simple. Show them how to actually play the game, make them NEED to learn how to play.
The tutorial is non existent when it comes to skillpoints, boff abilities and ship fittings. I got to level 35 on my very first toon flying an abomination of a ship because I wasn't told any different, it was a player made guide that clued me into single energy types and what the consoles are actually useful for.
Some more light on this in game would do the world of good.
Well the nerf has hit tribble, seems pretty fair to me. I like it, it makes it still situationally useful not not an OP powerhouse that it currently is.
Wow, a sensible adjustment while not completely driving it into the ground? I'm impressed. I was holding off on picking one up since I knew it would be adjusted, but I might get one now.
The tutorial is non existent when it comes to skillpoints, boff abilities and ship fittings. I got to level 35 on my very first toon flying an abomination of a ship because I wasn't told any different, it was a player made guide that clued me into single energy types and what the consoles are actually useful for.
Some more light on this in game would do the world of good.
Exactly. I began playing in the days before the skill changes, and even then, if I didn't look up stuff on my own, I would've had no clue what did what.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
So the players that were firing salvos at this dev to nerf the console were - PvE players? Hmm - I have been active in the PvP area for a bit so i know who some of them are.
Also the fact that there have been 5 ot 6 threads created by PvP players calling for a Nerf to this console - means - it's not the PvP community that is after Cryptic for the nerf?? OK.
Yeah that is believable - right. Almost all the elite players have posted pretty irrate posts - including quiting the game - like Marc above this post - a very skilled and elite KDF pvp player - would it be sad to see them go? Of course. I don't want that to happen.
There are 2 fundemental problems here:
1) how to you make a console powerful for PvE and not OP in PvP?
2) how to you get something powerful into the hands of low skill - lower level ships/gear to newer PvP players that gets them some kills and makes them participate rather than sitting afk or leaving after just being cannon fodder for the elite players?
These are serious issue that should be addressed before you just nerf a new console - and what about future consoles - and the lock-box system - is it worth it?
PvPers drew attention to it, yes.
But again, read my sig. It's not because the PvP community was upset, it's because it's not working as its supposed to.
Most people in escorts are not even stopped in the 3km zone and can easily escape it already - so for a few seconds the weapons are offline?
That is useless - so many other attacks already knock weapons off line.
Admit it - this console went from OP(yes I never said it was not OP) to worthless - not worht a console slot anymore.
PvP players won - congrats - you guys got it Nerfed to uselessness - I tip my hat to you.
Lol, what are you talking about? It's now perfect for my Sci! Just combine with a hold and poof-neutered escort. Now it synergizes just the same with my Sci boff abilities, and Tacscorts can't use it for easy alphas anymore. Win for sci!
Also, unlike most weapon disables, which are repaired quickly, you now have a huge rift that can disable multiple ship weapons that is unresistable so long as you keep the person in the rift. Much better than the usual.
Plus the perception debuff will be very nice to disrupt healers - the possibilities are endless now that others don't see it as OP and I can use it more freely.
But again, read my sig. It's not because the PvP community was upset, it's because it's not working as its supposed to.
Actually your sig is not applicable.
Your sig was a comment on the disruptor fix. When something they had designed wasn't working in the way that they had designed it - it was overproccing and broken.
This isn't like that, this is currently working how it was designed - it was just designed incredibly badly and had some serious balance issues so they nerfed it.
Your sig was a comment on the disruptor fix. When something they had designed wasn't working in the way that they had designed it - it was overproccing and broken.
This isn't like that, this is currently working how it was designed - it was just designed incredibly badly and had some serious balance issues so they nerfed it.
Not really the same thing IMHO
It's not supposed to neuter Captain abilities, which would go unnoticed in PvE.
Also it's OP because it goes against previously decided by the Devs.
It's not supposed to neuter Captain abilities, which would go unnoticed in PvE.
Also it's OP because it goes against previously decided by the Devs.
I'm not disagreeing with either of those points.
If they had made it so that it didn't disable captain abilities, but still did everything else, and maybe cut the uptime against real players vs AI, then you might have a point.
As it is, they just changed the nature of the weapon (which is easier, but sloppy) to keep everyone happy. Your sig is still not applicable.
PVP folks are already crying butthertz over this and the rest of the Elachi gear.
Rather than come up with new builds, new tactics and actually THINK for once they demand that everyone else (the vast majority) cater to them.
Enjoy it while it lasts -- it'll be dumbed down to a fancy grav-well within two patches.
How true? and agree with the above. There's always a work around and easy fix. I love PvPs but this just does not make sense. They are complaining about a console when the whole PvP maps are all dead since inception. No single upgrades done from 3 years and its the same BORING designs...if they want to complain about something...they should take a look at what is more important rather than making a mountain out a mole...just an observation to keep things in perspective :rolleyes:
It's not supposed to neuter Captain abilities, which would go unnoticed in PvE.
Also it's OP because it goes against previously decided by the Devs.
I admitted that you guys won - now please admit that it has gone from OP to virtually useless.
Now what is to stop any player from using evasives/Emergency power to engines/jump/batteries/APO - etc etc etc - to get out of its effects in under 2 second?? NONE.
so while your weapons are offline you have polorize hull or APO to get out of any tractors and you get speed boost from APO and you could have 10 other speed boosts that will cover the AOE in a second or 2.
I admitted that you guys won - now please admit that it has gone from OP to virtually useless.
Now what is to stop any player from using evasives/Emergency power to engines/jump/batteries/APO - etc etc etc - to get out of its effects in under 2 second?? NONE.
so while your weapons are offline you have polorize hull or APO to get out of any tractors and you get speed boost from APO and you could have 10 other speed boosts that will cover the AOE in a second or 2.
USELESS CONSOLE
Admittedly, Cryptic has the habit of overnerfing things. No players can be faulted for that.
I don't know what's actually going to happen. The weapons thing was just a quick guess on their part.
Guess now perfect time to boycott PvPs....and stop buying those useless boxes...so much whining and complaining DOES get things accomplished....lesson learned :eek:
How true? and agree with the above. There's always a work around and easy fix. I love PvPs but this just does not make sense. They are complaining about a console when the whole PvP maps are all dead since inception. No single upgrades done from 3 years and its the same BORING designs...if they want to complain about something...they should take a look at what is more important rather than making a mountain out a mole...just an observation to keep things in perspective :rolleyes:
Spot on with your characterization of pvpers-they'd rather tirelessly whine about 1 console than fight to have pvp revamped as a whole. Pathetic but predictable.
Spot on with your characterization of pvpers-they'd rather tirelessly whine about 1 console than fight to have pvp revamped as a whole. Pathetic but predictable.
Says someone that's never set foot into the PvP Forum. Probably in the top 3 most interesting subforums to read.
Infinitely higher than General Discussion which is rock bottom.
Comments
Which is exactly what this console is, not to mention that for PvE it is completely redundant.
Easy answers.
1. Make it so it is focused on PvE only stuff. Like the old Borg weapons, or the various DOFFs which boost damage against certain NPCs, that sort of thing. Cheesing it up against the PvE content is all well and good, and if they want to, then they should, as long as it's focused on that.
No PvPer EVER complained that the 'Tholian DOFFs were too powerful' or 'Borg weapons are too effective'. Hell, if anything, them removing Borg weapons made it HARDER to PvP, because it took away a major source of easy weaponry for a lot of players (and this was in the days of not everyone really cared about fleet weapons, because Borg weapons were a lot easier to get).
2. Simple. Show them how to actually play the game, make them NEED to learn how to play. I think the playerbase, the entire playerbase mind you, needs a dosage of 'tough love'. Show them how everything works, let them win a bit. Then show them more, including how teamwork is the most effective thing in this game.
No amount of power creep or 'l33t' stuff will change that. If people don't really know the game, how can they know PvP?
That is why power creep is so bad for this game, particularly PvP-wise (and hell, even PvE-wise). Because while it can potentially help newer players, it still helps out the old veterans who are simply going to take the new stuff (if they feel it's worth while), and put it on their ships, while still having all the same skills and knowledge they did before, while the newer player will only have the new toys and nothing else.
Take a look at the "nerf" anyway. Still pretty effectively shuts down NPCs and does even more damage, but only shoves the first six inches of the bat up a player.
Hmm, the full heal is theoretically doable. Backstep while under influence (no reticle), the boost to sci-skills and thus healing from Quantum manip, with full Aux Power, AtS, EPtS, HE2/3, TSS and ST, and you've got yourself healed to full. Add on a team heal here and there, and it's all gravy.
Well, all right, but you really should avoid making such severe claims until you've actually got the evidence. It's slanderous.:P
I was referring to the T3 console, but never mind. Do you have a link to the thread, by any chance? I can't seem to find it.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12020431&postcount=1
Kirk's Protege.
Why should the console care if the enemy is A.I. or not. If it's OP against one group then it's obviously OP against the other.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
:P
EDIT:
Damn. Ninja'd.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=12020431&postcount=1
Kirk's Protege.
Going to have to try it, but honestly looks like it might be a marginal improvement for PVE, or at least a wash - more damage, and a large slow that doesn't ignore defenses plus weapons offline shuts down most NPCs a lot more effectively than it would a player.
See, newromulan1? They just swapped out the disable. All of this fuss for nothing. Speed, perception debuff and damage still there.
The tutorial is non existent when it comes to skillpoints, boff abilities and ship fittings. I got to level 35 on my very first toon flying an abomination of a ship because I wasn't told any different, it was a player made guide that clued me into single energy types and what the consoles are actually useful for.
Some more light on this in game would do the world of good.
Kirk's Protege.
You got to be JOKING right??
Most people in escorts are not even stopped in the 3km zone and can easily escape it already - so for a few seconds the weapons are offline?
That is useless - so many other attacks already knock weapons off line.
Admit it - this console went from OP(yes I never said it was not OP) to worthless - not worht a console slot anymore.
PvP players won - congrats - you guys got it Nerfed to uselessness - I tip my hat to you.
Wow, a sensible adjustment while not completely driving it into the ground? I'm impressed. I was holding off on picking one up since I knew it would be adjusted, but I might get one now.
Mine Trap Supporter
Exactly. I began playing in the days before the skill changes, and even then, if I didn't look up stuff on my own, I would've had no clue what did what.
It burns!
*maniacal laughter*
PvPers drew attention to it, yes.
But again, read my sig. It's not because the PvP community was upset, it's because it's not working as its supposed to.
Lol, what are you talking about? It's now perfect for my Sci! Just combine with a hold and poof-neutered escort. Now it synergizes just the same with my Sci boff abilities, and Tacscorts can't use it for easy alphas anymore. Win for sci!
Also, unlike most weapon disables, which are repaired quickly, you now have a huge rift that can disable multiple ship weapons that is unresistable so long as you keep the person in the rift. Much better than the usual.
Plus the perception debuff will be very nice to disrupt healers - the possibilities are endless now that others don't see it as OP and I can use it more freely.
Actually your sig is not applicable.
Your sig was a comment on the disruptor fix. When something they had designed wasn't working in the way that they had designed it - it was overproccing and broken.
This isn't like that, this is currently working how it was designed - it was just designed incredibly badly and had some serious balance issues so they nerfed it.
Not really the same thing IMHO
Kirk's Protege.
It's not supposed to neuter Captain abilities, which would go unnoticed in PvE.
Also it's OP because it goes against previously decided by the Devs.
I'm not disagreeing with either of those points.
If they had made it so that it didn't disable captain abilities, but still did everything else, and maybe cut the uptime against real players vs AI, then you might have a point.
As it is, they just changed the nature of the weapon (which is easier, but sloppy) to keep everyone happy. Your sig is still not applicable.
Kirk's Protege.
How true? and agree with the above. There's always a work around and easy fix. I love PvPs but this just does not make sense. They are complaining about a console when the whole PvP maps are all dead since inception. No single upgrades done from 3 years and its the same BORING designs...if they want to complain about something...they should take a look at what is more important rather than making a mountain out a mole...just an observation to keep things in perspective :rolleyes:
I admitted that you guys won - now please admit that it has gone from OP to virtually useless.
Now what is to stop any player from using evasives/Emergency power to engines/jump/batteries/APO - etc etc etc - to get out of its effects in under 2 second?? NONE.
so while your weapons are offline you have polorize hull or APO to get out of any tractors and you get speed boost from APO and you could have 10 other speed boosts that will cover the AOE in a second or 2.
USELESS CONSOLE
Admittedly, Cryptic has the habit of overnerfing things. No players can be faulted for that.
I don't know what's actually going to happen. The weapons thing was just a quick guess on their part.
Guess now perfect time to boycott PvPs....and stop buying those useless boxes...so much whining and complaining DOES get things accomplished....lesson learned :eek:
Spot on with your characterization of pvpers-they'd rather tirelessly whine about 1 console than fight to have pvp revamped as a whole. Pathetic but predictable.
Well, that's fine, they don't like you either.
I don't like you either, and I don't PvP. Attitudes like that suck.
Kirk's Protege.
Says someone that's never set foot into the PvP Forum. Probably in the top 3 most interesting subforums to read.
Infinitely higher than General Discussion which is rock bottom.
Kirk's Protege.