nd penalize people like me, who takes this opportunity to buy zen cheaper, and unlock costumes/various item ?
What's the point of a free zen/dil market, if it's not free ?
there isn't one
it should be a fixed market
your 100 dilith should always be worth the same 1 zen (or whatever)
it should be immutable
Fixed and not player dependant
Some people will always find a way to scam something. They represent a minority, and penalizing the whole community because of them is bad. Especially when they won't be penalized that much.
sadly hunting them down and ripping out their spleens is not an option
Nor can we jail them for 30 years
They already broke the DOFF system, and it was a minigame I liked to do. Now, I don't do it anymore, because of the dil cost. They nerfed the foundry mission reward, it was the foundry author and player that was penalized for a while. Some of them are still penalized.
there should be no profit in running a mission
Scammer already found another efficient way to do their business.
New zen only comes from people buying it directly with money or the monthly stipend which was paid for either as a lifetime or monthly sub.
They're supposed to be making content with that money.
Solid point. And very importantly as well think about the impact to new players.
Sure you long-time vets have more demand for dilithium because you've unlocked everything you want with zen so the current exchange rate makes it hard to get dilithium in large quantities. But new players like me don't have much need for the dilithium gear yet and there's a LOT of stuff we want to unlock with zen. For us the current exchange rate is awesome.
Simple. Get rid of F2P -OR- make a subscription really worth having by giving more access to the game in some way. Granted only players determine what a game is really worth, so the onus is on Cryptic to make it desirable enough to get people to pay up.
Focusing on the Exchange is one option, but not the only option.
Speculators exist to be sure, but there would need to be a significant number to move the rates around, which I have a hard time accepting.
I am tried of hearing people cry about the market. If those people buying Zen to sell for Dilthium don't like the price, then they should stop buying Dilthium with Zen. After a while the prices will go back up.
Personally I am loving the current rates. I am grinding as much as I can and converting as much as I can to Zen. As a fleet leader I am avoiding running projects that requires Dilthium
In closing I find it rather silly to use real money to buy Zen just to convert it to Dilthium. Dilthium is plentyful if you use some strategy and thought. I guess some people have more money then brains.
I get half the daily cap just from DOFFs, not counting turning in Contraband. After I run the daily and the Lore mission I'm at the limit.
People need to be more patient in completing the fleet projects.
You don't get it because much of what he said is not based on facts. There is no 'cheating' involved here. Although in his mind, he believes that making a profit is cheating. If you buy Zen now at 98, and then sell it later at 100 (thereby making a profit in dilithium), he considers it 'cheating' or taking advantage of the system when, obviously, there is no cheating involved.
The sell side imbalance is simply a statement that dilithium is becoming more valuable than Zen at the moment. A large number of players are completing their T5 reputations this week. They need dilithium to make their purchases of Mark XII gear, hence the higher demand. And on the flip side, there has not been anything new released in the Z-store for the past couple of weeks. People with Zen, have nothing the spend the Zen on. Thus, they are selling it for dilithium which, if they completed T5, there is a lot of stuff to buy. One of our fleet members over this week, has spent over 300K dilihtium just in T5 Omega purchases.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You don't get it because much of what he said is not based on facts. There is no 'cheating' involved here. Although in his mind, he believes that making a profit is cheating. If you buy Zen now at 98, and then sell it later at 100 (thereby making a profit in dilithium), he considers it 'cheating' or taking advantage of the system when, obviously, there is no cheating involved.
The sell side imbalance is simply a statement that dilithium is becoming more valuable than Zen at the moment. A large number of players are completing their T5 reputations this week. They need dilithium to make their purchases of Mark XII gear, hence the higher demand. And on the flip side, there has not been anything new released in the Z-store for the past couple of weeks. People with Zen, have nothing the spend the Zen on. Thus, they are selling it for dilithium which, if they completed T5, there is a lot of stuff to buy. One of our fleet members over this week, has spent over 300K dilihtium just in T5 Omega purchases.
Ok I get that - but where is all the Zen coming from? The sale is over - so are people still buying Zen hand over fist with real dollars they way the sell side would suggest?
I know when credit card bills hit in Mid-Jan - there must be some shock as always that should calm some of the selling.
Ok I get that - but where is all the Zen coming from? The sale is over - so are people still buying Zen hand over fist with real dollars they way the sell side would suggest?
I know when credit card bills hit in Mid-Jan - there must be some shock as always that should calm some of the selling.
Just because the sale is over doesn't mean there is no Zen around. I'm sitting on several thousand Zen right now, and have been for months. But I have not put it up for sale. When people buy Zen, and when people put it on the exchange are 2 different things. I will sometimes buy Zen if it goes on sale even if I don't need it right away. I'll buy just because it's a good deal. I can always put it up for sale later when I actually need the dilithium, IF I am ok with the exchange rate. It's a matter of how badly and how urgently I need it. If neither is the case, I'll just save the Zen, and grind out the dilithium.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ok I get that - but where is all the Zen coming from? The sale is over - so are people still buying Zen hand over fist with real dollars they way the sell side would suggest?
Just because there's no sale doesn't mean there's not people buying Z. A bunch of folks got Christmas money/gift cards, so there will likely be a big influx of Z over the next week or so, as kids that don't have credit cards can buy Z, or people that normally don't buy Z but have money that they can't think of other gaming things to get (like me!).
Of course, I won't be putting my Z on the exchange, either. I need doff slots, baby!
Since the Zen prices continue to slowly drop I've changed my focus to farming for keys to get Lobi. Just cuz why not? It's pretty random as you know so I'm far away from anything useful in the Lobi store. But what else am I gonna do besides chase Romulan space rabbits?
But man, do I have a lot of weird Doffs now from unlocking those boxes.
Here's what I've noticed about the four boxes: The Cardassian box is the least likely to get you something near useless. The Ferengi box seems to be free with the Doffs. The Tholian and Temporal boxes are great if you want a fleet mark booster.
Anyway, stay low, Zen. Stay low. I'm only four hundred keys away from that sweet temporal ship for my sci captain. I can feel it in my bones.
Since the Zen prices continue to slowly drop I've changed my focus to farming for keys to get Lobi. Just cuz why not? It's pretty random as you know so I'm far away from anything useful in the Lobi store. But what else am I gonna do besides chase Romulan space rabbits?
But man, do I have a lot of weird Doffs now from unlocking those boxes.
Here's what I've noticed about the four boxes: The Cardassian box is the least likely to get you something near useless. The Ferengi box seems to be free with the Doffs. The Tholian and Temporal boxes are great if you want a fleet mark booster.
Anyway, stay low, Zen. Stay low. I'm only four hundred keys away from that sweet temporal ship for my sci captain. I can feel it in my bones.
Temporal box gives an avg of 5.5 lobi per box - good luck
Looking back at the first post... I wish for 130 dil per zen these days!
But yeah... this is getting ridiculous. I can't get fleetmates to contribute to fleet projects because they're saving their dilithium to buy zen. So it's up to me to take care of things. Drop a twenty on some dil to get some stuff... no big deal. Now 20 bucks can't get me diddly squat for dil. It won't even complete a really dil intensive starbase project at these prices.
So for me it's more worthwhile to save my dil and go without certain items. I've reached my breaking point. That's it. No more.
I don't blame cryptic. They may have set the environment, but it's completely the player's fault that prices are as insane as they are. Players set the prices, set the value, and hoarde the supply. We're to blame.
So if we're wanting to get dil back to reasonable prices we're gonna have to convince players to do it themselves as a collective effort...
YEAH RIGHT!
I've never known a player community to do ANYTHING that would help the whole while TRIBBLE themselves over as individuals!
So essentially we're stuck with this problem! We players are such greedy, selfish TRIBBLE that there is no way in hell this problem will be solved. None! We made our own hell! We have to live with it!
Looking back at the first post... I wish for 130 dil per zen these days!
But yeah... this is getting ridiculous. I can't get fleetmates to contribute to fleet projects because they're saving their dilithium to buy zen. So it's up to me to take care of things. Drop a twenty on some dil to get some stuff... no big deal. Now 20 bucks can't get me diddly squat for dil. It won't even complete a really dil intensive starbase project at these prices.
So for me it's more worthwhile to save my dil and go without certain items. I've reached my breaking point. That's it. No more.
I don't blame cryptic. They may have set the environment, but it's completely the player's fault that prices are as insane as they are. Players set the prices, set the value, and hoarde the supply. We're to blame.
So if we're wanting to get dil back to reasonable prices we're gonna have to convince players to do it themselves as a collective effort...
YEAH RIGHT!
I've never known a player community to do ANYTHING that would help the whole while TRIBBLE themselves over as individuals!
So essentially we're stuck with this problem! We players are such greedy, selfish TRIBBLE that there is no way in hell this problem will be solved. None! We made our own hell! We have to live with it!
I took my tin foil hat off for a bit and the thought that entered my mind - "what if Cryptic was the one selling mass amounts of Zen on the exchange to soak up even more dilthium and drive the price up?"
Seems this could explain the shear mass of Zen selling at these prices - i mean who is selling Sen right now? - This could be another dithium sink - Cryptic sells the Zen on the market and people soak it up with their dilthium.
But yeah... this is getting ridiculous. I can't get fleetmates to contribute to fleet projects because they're saving their dilithium to buy zen.
Talk to your fleetmates and get everyone to agree to put up the first 500-1000 Dil they refine in a day for fleet proyects. Its what I do and it helps me keep a steady drip into the base. If the fleet is large that steady drip adds up rather fast and everyone can easily part with 500 refined DIl every day.
Talk to your fleetmates and get everyone to agree to put up the first 500-1000 Dil they refine in a day for fleet proyects. Its what I do and it helps me keep a steady drip into the base. If the fleet is large that steady drip adds up rather fast and everyone can easily part with 500 refined DIl every day.
Maybe for you. Me? I'm tap dancing around with the angels in Q Heaven.
Would you be willing to downgrade to 'Q Paradise' if it meant that more people could get a chance at getting there as well?
Most likely not. Not a lot of people out there willing to sacrifice what they have to benefit the whole. We're humans. We're always looking to benefit ourselves first before the group.
I took my tin foil hat off for a bit and the thought that entered my mind - "what if Cryptic was the one selling mass amounts of Zen on the exchange to soak up even more dilthium and drive the price up?"
Seems this could explain the shear mass of Zen selling at these prices - i mean who is selling Sen right now? - This could be another dithium sink - Cryptic sells the Zen on the market and people soak it up with their dilthium.
Ok i will put my hat back on - or not:eek:
It's a theory that, unless an insider was willing to expose (including evidence), we cannot prove.
I believe in a simpler answer. Players have had almost a year to manipulate the Zen markets. It is reasonable to assume that those huge amounts of zen can be accumulated in that time.
Heck, there might be a rich kid, a basement dweller, or some high paid IT specialist that dropped a thousand bucks on Zen points. Who knows! I just think that Cryptic honestly has better things to do with their time than manipulate pretend markets, and that it would risk their reputation too much if they were caught. So I subscribe to a simpler answer, in that some players just know how to game the market really well and have had enough time to do so.
Comments
there isn't one
it should be a fixed market
your 100 dilith should always be worth the same 1 zen (or whatever)
it should be immutable
Fixed and not player dependant
sadly hunting them down and ripping out their spleens is not an option
Nor can we jail them for 30 years
there should be no profit in running a mission
eventually we will find away to deal with them
I hear the moon landing was faked too.
The Russians landed on the moon some years back and were monitored from Athens
Like me, many I know seek other means to dispose of money
Free market, player set pricing. So what if there are "speculators"? Power to them!
Wow..
Where do you think zen comes from?
New zen only comes from people buying it directly with money or the monthly stipend which was paid for either as a lifetime or monthly sub.
They're supposed to be making content with that money.
So speculators get to own your house??
Free markets lead to ponzi schemes , maddoff moments and sub prime mortgages
you know all the weaknesses of a social capitalist system
If it did then Zen sales would drop, if Zen sales drop then revenue reduces.
I'd expect an upswing in the Dilithium exchange by second week of January, latest.
Solid point. And very importantly as well think about the impact to new players.
Sure you long-time vets have more demand for dilithium because you've unlocked everything you want with zen so the current exchange rate makes it hard to get dilithium in large quantities. But new players like me don't have much need for the dilithium gear yet and there's a LOT of stuff we want to unlock with zen. For us the current exchange rate is awesome.
Simple. Get rid of F2P -OR- make a subscription really worth having by giving more access to the game in some way. Granted only players determine what a game is really worth, so the onus is on Cryptic to make it desirable enough to get people to pay up.
Focusing on the Exchange is one option, but not the only option.
Speculators exist to be sure, but there would need to be a significant number to move the rates around, which I have a hard time accepting.
1)people in the US spend way more then they should or expect to around this time of year on frivolous things.
2)people cut spending after boxing day
3)When the first credit card bill of the new year comes in the mail people go into a fetal position.
equals: Zen purchases with real dollars should virtually stop in mid January
Personally I am loving the current rates. I am grinding as much as I can and converting as much as I can to Zen. As a fleet leader I am avoiding running projects that requires Dilthium
In closing I find it rather silly to use real money to buy Zen just to convert it to Dilthium. Dilthium is plentyful if you use some strategy and thought. I guess some people have more money then brains.
I get half the daily cap just from DOFFs, not counting turning in Contraband. After I run the daily and the Lore mission I'm at the limit.
People need to be more patient in completing the fleet projects.
97 and not much below - but stacking up on the Sell Zen side
Batten down the hatches - close the emergency bulkhead doors!
Only those who don't speculate. :P
Hit your burners pilot? .///.
as dishonourable and dishonest men always must
and even if they live long and happy lives after death their heirs feel nothing but contempt
and Glee
Are you saying there are some people or groups selling massive amounts of Zen to force the price of Zen lower?
they are buying and selling the Same blocks of zen to cheat the system
I don't get this
there is 450k Zen to sell between 98-102
but only 180k to buy between 97-93
thats a huge sell side imbalance
You don't get it because much of what he said is not based on facts. There is no 'cheating' involved here. Although in his mind, he believes that making a profit is cheating. If you buy Zen now at 98, and then sell it later at 100 (thereby making a profit in dilithium), he considers it 'cheating' or taking advantage of the system when, obviously, there is no cheating involved.
The sell side imbalance is simply a statement that dilithium is becoming more valuable than Zen at the moment. A large number of players are completing their T5 reputations this week. They need dilithium to make their purchases of Mark XII gear, hence the higher demand. And on the flip side, there has not been anything new released in the Z-store for the past couple of weeks. People with Zen, have nothing the spend the Zen on. Thus, they are selling it for dilithium which, if they completed T5, there is a lot of stuff to buy. One of our fleet members over this week, has spent over 300K dilihtium just in T5 Omega purchases.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Ok I get that - but where is all the Zen coming from? The sale is over - so are people still buying Zen hand over fist with real dollars they way the sell side would suggest?
I know when credit card bills hit in Mid-Jan - there must be some shock as always that should calm some of the selling.
Just because the sale is over doesn't mean there is no Zen around. I'm sitting on several thousand Zen right now, and have been for months. But I have not put it up for sale. When people buy Zen, and when people put it on the exchange are 2 different things. I will sometimes buy Zen if it goes on sale even if I don't need it right away. I'll buy just because it's a good deal. I can always put it up for sale later when I actually need the dilithium, IF I am ok with the exchange rate. It's a matter of how badly and how urgently I need it. If neither is the case, I'll just save the Zen, and grind out the dilithium.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Just because there's no sale doesn't mean there's not people buying Z. A bunch of folks got Christmas money/gift cards, so there will likely be a big influx of Z over the next week or so, as kids that don't have credit cards can buy Z, or people that normally don't buy Z but have money that they can't think of other gaming things to get (like me!).
Of course, I won't be putting my Z on the exchange, either. I need doff slots, baby!
But man, do I have a lot of weird Doffs now from unlocking those boxes.
Here's what I've noticed about the four boxes: The Cardassian box is the least likely to get you something near useless. The Ferengi box seems to be free with the Doffs. The Tholian and Temporal boxes are great if you want a fleet mark booster.
Anyway, stay low, Zen. Stay low. I'm only four hundred keys away from that sweet temporal ship for my sci captain. I can feel it in my bones.
Temporal box gives an avg of 5.5 lobi per box - good luck
But yeah... this is getting ridiculous. I can't get fleetmates to contribute to fleet projects because they're saving their dilithium to buy zen. So it's up to me to take care of things. Drop a twenty on some dil to get some stuff... no big deal. Now 20 bucks can't get me diddly squat for dil. It won't even complete a really dil intensive starbase project at these prices.
So for me it's more worthwhile to save my dil and go without certain items. I've reached my breaking point. That's it. No more.
I don't blame cryptic. They may have set the environment, but it's completely the player's fault that prices are as insane as they are. Players set the prices, set the value, and hoarde the supply. We're to blame.
So if we're wanting to get dil back to reasonable prices we're gonna have to convince players to do it themselves as a collective effort...
YEAH RIGHT!
I've never known a player community to do ANYTHING that would help the whole while TRIBBLE themselves over as individuals!
So essentially we're stuck with this problem! We players are such greedy, selfish TRIBBLE that there is no way in hell this problem will be solved. None! We made our own hell! We have to live with it!
I took my tin foil hat off for a bit and the thought that entered my mind - "what if Cryptic was the one selling mass amounts of Zen on the exchange to soak up even more dilthium and drive the price up?"
Seems this could explain the shear mass of Zen selling at these prices - i mean who is selling Sen right now? - This could be another dithium sink - Cryptic sells the Zen on the market and people soak it up with their dilthium.
Ok i will put my hat back on - or not:eek:
Maybe for you. Me? I'm tap dancing around with the angels in Q Heaven.
Talk to your fleetmates and get everyone to agree to put up the first 500-1000 Dil they refine in a day for fleet proyects. Its what I do and it helps me keep a steady drip into the base. If the fleet is large that steady drip adds up rather fast and everyone can easily part with 500 refined DIl every day.
That's a good idea! Thank you!
Would you be willing to downgrade to 'Q Paradise' if it meant that more people could get a chance at getting there as well?
Most likely not. Not a lot of people out there willing to sacrifice what they have to benefit the whole. We're humans. We're always looking to benefit ourselves first before the group.
And that to me is depressing.
It's a theory that, unless an insider was willing to expose (including evidence), we cannot prove.
I believe in a simpler answer. Players have had almost a year to manipulate the Zen markets. It is reasonable to assume that those huge amounts of zen can be accumulated in that time.
Heck, there might be a rich kid, a basement dweller, or some high paid IT specialist that dropped a thousand bucks on Zen points. Who knows! I just think that Cryptic honestly has better things to do with their time than manipulate pretend markets, and that it would risk their reputation too much if they were caught. So I subscribe to a simpler answer, in that some players just know how to game the market really well and have had enough time to do so.