Dilithium & Fleet Marks are the two most important aspects of all Fleet Starbase projects, it is also the two that are the most difficult to obtain in large quantities and at a steady rate, especially Fleet Marks.
Currently as of 12/26/2012 - the Dilithium market is at 99 Dilithium per Zen point, it is very bad news for Dilithium buyers, but GREAT news for those who are buying Zen.
There is one major problem with Zen:
There isn't much to buy with it - As for me there is a KDFNausicaan ship that is worth 1KZen & the Vesta Pack at 5K.
and Keys for EC.
It is Dilithium that I'm in need of in large quantities, so far the exchange is poo poo.
I don't blame cryptic. They may have set the environment, but it's completely the player's fault that prices are as insane as they are. Players set the prices, set the value, and hoarde the supply. We're to blame.
So if we're wanting to get dil back to reasonable prices we're gonna have to convince players to do it themselves as a collective effort...
.
.
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I've never known a player community to do ANYTHING that would help the whole while TRIBBLE themselves over as individuals!
So essentially we're stuck with this problem! We players are such greedy, selfish TRIBBLE that there is no way in hell this problem will be solved. None! We made our own hell! We have to live with it!
So other players are "greedy & selfish" because they don't make the price of dil how you like it.
....if you're a long-time player who's already bought what they want. If you're a relatively new player (or a true "f2p" player), there's likely all sorts of things, from inventory increases & account banks, to ships, to doff slot increases, to costume parts, etc.
Yeah, and the ever popular lottery tickets, er, I mean keys. :rolleyes:
(Personally, I've bought some character slots & a costume piece in the last day. Still plenty of things I might buy, but I'm waiting on what to do with my other 3k-and-increasing zen. 2000 of which I bought, after spending the other ~2k I bought. If I were in a fleet - haven't found the right one yet - I'd be contributing dil, because I've only been selling the dil on my alts; my main character has ~90k dil saved for a rainy day.)
Would you be willing to downgrade to 'Q Paradise' if it meant that more people could get a chance at getting there as well?
There is no hell. You are simply inconvenienced and want the entire player base to change so you can get your next base vanity item. I understand why you wouldn't like it, but your fleetmates need to step up. It's not our problem, it's your fleet's. Whip them into shape, wait for them to buy what they want from the Zen Store, or join a better fleet.
If you are looking for other players to scold into making your life easier, find the people not putting their dilithium on the exchange. The game is still lousy with the stuff. It ain't folks like me throwing what they earn at it who are the problem.
I don't have a problem with the current market and where it is going. I'm hoping for a day when 80 dil for 1 zen is at the bottom of the list in exchange.
So other players are "greedy & selfish" because they don't make the price of dil how you like it.
That's..... interesting. :P
Nope. Just as guilty since I have participated in the market. I have bought dilithium at those ridiculous prices to fill in fleet projects. I too am part of the problem.
At one point I thought that if I was part of the problem then I should perhaps stop making the problem worse.
The only thing I can do is to stop buying dilithium, use only the dilithium I can produce on my own (even if it means going without certain items for awhile) and encourage my fleetmates and friends to do the same.
There is no hell. You are simply inconvenienced and want the entire player base to change so you can get your next base vanity item. I understand why you wouldn't like it, but your fleetmates need to step up. It's not our problem, it's your fleet's. Whip them into shape, wait for them to buy what they want from the Zen Store, or join a better fleet.
If you are looking for other players to scold into making your life easier, find the people not putting their dilithium on the exchange. The game is still lousy with the stuff. It ain't folks like me throwing what they earn at it who are the problem.
Not just for me. There are plenty of other players in the same boat I'm in. A personal interest in an issue, if anything, should make one more motivated to speak out, not less.
On my end I have come up with solutions to encourage more participation. For example, I offer my fleetmates prizes for reaching certain points in the leaderboard. Good prizes too. 1 mil is a console and mirror ship prize pack (I'll change since those have become dirt cheap, but at the time it was pretty good). 5 mil is a lockbox ship.
But mostly I hear from fleetmates on how they're trying to save up for a Vesta pack, or to get more lockbox keys, or just essentially grinding away to get c-store items. Can't blame them.
So I can encourage my fleetmates, but I can only do so much.
And I can't do any widespread change in dilithium values on my own. I just don't have the resources at this time. There are people with 100k+ zen that can do it, but why would they?
The only thing I can do is speak out and hope there's a chance in hell that someone will listen. Maybe in this debate I might actually find a solution that won't just benefit myself, but the majority.
After all, I believe that there is a point where both buyers and sellers can live with. Trying to establish that point is, as we can tell from our back and forth, really difficult.
Different people want different things, they are never going to keep everyone happy. You have the folk who buy zen currently as happy as larry, those who buy dil currently unhappy, and those like myself who rarely exchange either way who are so so about the whole argument.
As for how cryptic sees it, those who have lifetime subscriptions and have maxed out the c-store should understand that, rightly or wrongly, cryptic already have their cash and aren't likely to make much more off them.
I guess you could say that 100 dil per zen might be fair since the C-store sets the price of Zen to $1 american for every 100 zen.
But then again, dilithium costs for items with a c-store equivalent (such as starships) are harder to quantify.
But it is safe to assume that a top of the line c-store ship should cost no more than $20-$25 dollars. I think I can go from there and get a proper number for dilithium's actual value.
We either lock it or turn it round or see the market die
Nope.
The Market will live on. Give it time, when the next lockbox comes out and we see some new stuff on the Cstore, prices will rise again. Just look at champions, at one point they were lower than we've got right now, but rose again eventually.
If the brave and selfless instant-gratification folks who dump $50 into dil in order to get their Starbase project Right Now aren't catered to with a favorable exchange rate, the game will collapse.
Or something like that.
(Not that CoH really had anything like dil, and massive dil sinks, or an exchange, from what I recall. Could be wrong, though.)
If the brave and selfless instant-gratification folks who dump $50 into dil in order to get their Starbase project Right Now aren't catered to with a favorable exchange rate, the game will collapse.
Or something like that.
(Not that CoH really had anything like dil, and massive dil sinks, or an exchange, from what I recall. Could be wrong, though.)
Nope
if the market is not Fixed one way or the other
its going to cause people to give up
Forget Cryptic. Think PWE. They're damned good at getting people to throw money at them (considering all the "f2p" games they have all using the same zen/exchange concept).
If the system isn't making them money, you can be sure they'll "fix" it. Of course, none of their other games have any issues with the free-market exchanges not working, so I doubt they'd do anything like that.
Just because you don't like the price ratio, doesn't mean the system isn't working.
(And remember - it's all a for-profit system. There's no rational reason for them to flood the market with their own "fake" zen to drive the exchange ratio down, if doing that actually is reducing the amount of zen people are buying. For one, why would they want any zen in the market that wasn't produced by $$$ in their pocket. For two, if they actually were doing this, and their sales started going down? They'd stop doing it, because it's not earning them money.)
edit: You know, PWE? The company that people all over the net call money-grubbing scum who ruin games by making them pay-to-win? Why would they do anything that reduces their profit?
if the market is not Fixed one way or the other
its going to cause people to give up
(in both directions)
The prices will fix at a rate that enough people find reasonable, naturally. That's how it always worked before, and will work again. Right now we're still trying to find it - and it's lower than where we're at right now, obviously. (Not by much, as the rate drop has slowed quite a lot.)
If enough people are that desperate for dil that they're willing to pay more to get it, then the price will go up; and it will go up until enough people don't think it's worth it anymore, at which point the prices will drop again. This will encourage those people to get back into the market, and prices will stabilize at a point where the most people are happy. Not everyone will be happy, but enough will be.
Speculating is one form of supply and demand, and a risky one at that. Do it right, and get filthy rich. Do it badly, and you lose everything. Not a lot of middle ground. The big problem comes when you have enough speculators compared to actual consumers; that's when you get a bubble, and when the bubble goes everyone loses.
I don't see a problem with speculators in this game. There actually are things to spend dil on, so a lot of folks are buying to use it - just as Cryptic/PWE intended (I wonder just how much PWE is involved in the development of the game). Speculating when prices are dropping is a pretty bad idea anyways - you don't know how low it will go, and you don't know when the prices are going to get you a decent profit.
Speculating is one form of supply and demand, and a risky one at that. Do it right, and get filthy rich. Do it badly, and you lose everything. Not a lot of middle ground. The big problem comes when you have enough speculators compared to actual consumers; that's when you get a bubble, and when the bubble goes everyone loses.
I don't see a problem with speculators in this game. There actually are things to spend dil on, so a lot of folks are buying to use it - just as Cryptic/PWE intended (I wonder just how much PWE is involved in the development of the game). Speculating when prices are dropping is a pretty bad idea anyways - you don't know how low it will go, and you don't know when the prices are going to get you a decent profit.
Tell me about it!
I tried awhile ago, just after the update to allow Romulan/Omega marks to be cashed in for dilithium took hold. I thought... 'That should get some supply in. People will have dilithium to sell off again. Besides, nobody in their right mind would drop the price lower than the 110 mark....'
God was I wrong. And I got burned for it. I was not happy. So after that I decided not to try speculating ever again.
Commander Ships cost 1000 zen (C-Store) or 40,000 dil (normal) (Conversion 1:40)
Captain Ships cost 1500 zen or 80,000 dil (Conversion 1:53)
Rear Admiral Ships cost 2000 zen or 120,000 (Conversion 1:60)
Vice Admiral Ships cost 2500 zen
So seems like we have a problem if the price is at 60. Because then a C-Store ship for 2000 zen would be the same price like a normal ship for 120,000 dil, even though it has a console and should be worth more.
Right now a C-Store Read Admiral Ship is 200,000 dil and a C-Store Vice Admiral Ship is 250,000 dil.
Commander Ships cost 1000 zen (C-Store) or 40,000 dil (normal) (Conversion 1:40)
Captain Ships cost 1500 zen or 80,000 dil (Conversion 1:53)
Rear Admiral Ships cost 2000 zen or 120,000 (Conversion 1:60)
Vice Admiral Ships cost 2500 zen
So seems like we have a problem if the price is at 60. Because then a C-Store ship for 2000 zen would be the same price like a normal ship for 120,000 dil, even though it has a console and should be worth more.
Right now a C-Store Read Admiral Ship is 200,000 dil and a C-Store Vice Admiral Ship is 250,000 dil.
Though I'd rather not give any detractor of mine a victory... I have to concede defeat. Ok, so I guess my point about dilithium being priced too high by using starships as an example doesn't hold up. They win. I lose. I don't like it but I have no choice but to accept it. I'll pay for dilithium at a price I do not like andt daydream about better days when it was 300 to 1.
However, it might lead to the argument that perhaps it's fleet projects that have been overpriced.
A top of the line starship makes a pretty good standard for setting values on anything in the game. It's central position to the game and it's use helps. So... for an item that I expect to get a moderate to a heavy amount of use on any given character I should expect to pay 2500 zen or its dilthium equivalent.
So by the way that dilithium is priced, does it make sense that a starbase vanity piece, or even starbase infrastructure at certain levels, ends up costing more than a top of the line starship?
So I guess I'm saying that dilithium prices on the priciest in game items and upgrades needs an adjustment. If it ends up costing over $25 dollars to say... getting a new conference table for the starbase... something's not right.
This turned in to a wall of text, so here are the main points:
1. Dilithium - zen exchange rate is caused by supply and demand, not speculation
2. The current exchange rate, coupled with the difficulty in getting dilithium is likely bad for most players
3. It is not clear if this is good or bad for Cryptic, but I would guess it is bad
4. Making more stuff available by Zen seems like a good thing for them to do
Explanation:
In my opinion, speculating is not the cause of the current market rates or even really close to the cause of it. The simplest explanation, and therefore in my opinion the one that is most likely to be correct is that the current market rate simply reflects the changes to supply and demand Season 7 brought about.
Season 7 drastically increased the demand of dilithium by increasing the amount of dilithium you need for a great number of things. I am not going to list them out, but the reputation system requires a great deal of dilithium, and was a new feature implemented in the game. Hence, a major increase in demand for dilithium, which as expected would lower the amount of dilithium you could buy with Zen.
Season 7 also drastically decreased the supply of dilithium, primarily by eliminating the "clickie" Investigate Officer Report dilithium rewards. I used this almost every day, and I am sure most other people did as well once the found it. Also, other players had anywhere from 2 to dozens of alts that they would log in to do this mission, because you got 1440 dilithium for about 10 to 20 seconds of activity. For all thousands of dilithium you see available on the exchange, keep in mind that prior to this change, a single player could get about 20k dilithium a day in about 10 or so minutes just by doing the clickie missions.
Another thing that may be involved here is a decent increase in the amount of "free" zen that is being put in the system. Prior to Season 7 and the current market rates, a substantial discount was offered on lifetime subscriptions, which give 500 zen a month. I would guess that a lot of the zen that is used to buy dilithium is from this source, and that this source has increased. I dont have any information on how many life time subscriptions Cryptic sold during this time, but this increase in the supply would also lower the amount of dilithium you could buy with Zen.
Whether a price is good or bad depends on which side of the trade you are on. Right now, the dilithium to zen price is great for completely free to play players, because they can get more zen for less dilithium. At the same time, though, getting this dilithium is much more difficult for completely free to play players because of the elimination of clickies and other changes. Also, a completely free to play player has much more things to do with whatever dilithium they get as opposed to putting it on the exchange.
The part of the player base that regularly spends money on zen to get dilithium is hurt the most by the current rates. Though I think a lot of what Sollvax says is wrong, and I think it is a terrible idea to make the exchange a fixed rate, I believe he is in this category so his complaints about the changes make sense.
It is not clear how Cryptic makes out in the whole thing, though I am sure they are watching it all closely. On the one hand, if people continue to regularly buy zen to get dilithium, and even buy more zen to get the dilthium they need, they make out well. On the other hand, if people stop buying zen to get dilithium because they do not feel it is worth it, they make out poorly. Lastly, if otherwise completely free to play players buy zen because it is more difficult to get dilthium with the new changes, and hence get free zen, Cryptic would also make out well. I imagine these are the reasons they decided to make these changes, on top of the clickie missions feeling like an exploit. They probably went too far at first, which is why they added the ability to get dilithium from marks. I personally feel like they need to do more to make dilithium easier to get at this point, both for the game as well as for their profits, but they have access to a lot more information than I do.
I think they should attempt to add in more ways for players to get easier dilithium, but do whatever they can to minimize the problems that came up with the clickies, ie, the clickies were just a silly chore you did to get dilithium as opposed to an actual mission, the clickies were highly exploitable by alts, etc. etc.
Keeping everything how they have it now, but tweeking the dilithium you get up seems like a good way to go.
Adding in more stuff you can get with Zen would also help make Zen more valuable. I extremely think though that this is only a good idea if they keep the game such that you do not actually have to pay anything, so long as you are willing to put in the time. This is one of the best things about this game, and I think it is a counterintuitive truth that people are more willing to pay money for in game items if they could do a bunch of work for it instead. Ie, I am much more willing to spend 5 dollars to get Item X if that item is available to me completely for free after 20 hours of game play that I may not want to do. This is even more the case, if for example, I am able to play for 10 hours which is what I want to play for, and then am able to spend $2.50 to get the item so I dont have play for 10 more hours which I dont want to do. If I was forced to pay 5 dollars or play for 20 hours, I believe I and most others would be less inclined to do so.
I guess I'll get flamed for this, but I'd like to ask anyway.
What if we made it so you can't get dilithium anywhere except by purchasing crates of it with Zen? Do you think anyone would profit from it besides Cryptic and PWE?
It's just a question, mind you. But after I ask this I bet everyone will have all their energy, torpedo and melee weapons pointed at me. O_O
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
I guess I'll get flamed for this, but I'd like to ask anyway.
What if we made it so you can't get dilithium anywhere except by purchasing crates of it with Zen? Do you think anyone would profit from it besides Cryptic and PWE?
It's just a question, mind you. But after I ask this I bet everyone will have all their energy, torpedo and melee weapons pointed at me. O_O
Depends. If the boxes could be sold on the dilithium and ec exchanges, then I would say it would be fair.
To block dilithium from only being available via the cstore would be the worst move since lobi was put in the game...
Though I'd rather not give any detractor of mine a victory... I have to concede defeat. Ok, so I guess my point about dilithium being priced too high by using starships as an example doesn't hold up. They win. I lose. I don't like it but I have no choice but to accept it. I'll pay for dilithium at a price I do not like andt daydream about better days when it was 300 to 1.
However, it might lead to the argument that perhaps it's fleet projects that have been overpriced.
A top of the line starship makes a pretty good standard for setting values on anything in the game. It's central position to the game and it's use helps. So... for an item that I expect to get a moderate to a heavy amount of use on any given character I should expect to pay 2500 zen or its dilthium equivalent.
So by the way that dilithium is priced, does it make sense that a starbase vanity piece, or even starbase infrastructure at certain levels, ends up costing more than a top of the line starship?
So I guess I'm saying that dilithium prices on the priciest in game items and upgrades needs an adjustment. If it ends up costing over $25 dollars to say... getting a new conference table for the starbase... something's not right.
By the way your talking you pay money for every bit of dilithium you get. You know you can earn dilithium by actually playing the game right? If people actually spent more time playing the game and less time complaining on the forums there wouldn't be a problem! Enough said
One of the 0.7%ers Markus Urelious 16000+ Accolades [Fed Tac FA] + Several More
I guess I'll get flamed for this, but I'd like to ask anyway.
What if we made it so you can't get dilithium anywhere except by purchasing crates of it with Zen? Do you think anyone would profit from it besides Cryptic and PWE?
It's just a question, mind you. But after I ask this I bet everyone will have all their energy, torpedo and melee weapons pointed at me. O_O
As long as its fixed amounts and they can NEVER be sold on the exchange its a good idea
And you are welcome to hide behind me when the shooting starts
I guess I'll get flamed for this, but I'd like to ask anyway.
What if we made it so you can't get dilithium anywhere except by purchasing crates of it with Zen? Do you think anyone would profit from it besides Cryptic and PWE?
It's just a question, mind you. But after I ask this I bet everyone will have all their energy, torpedo and melee weapons pointed at me. O_O
So instead of players themselves determining the correct price of Zen, Dilithium and by proxy, time... you'd have Cryptic do it instead?
The exchange is working. It's doing its job perfectly.
See, the problem is that people are believing this is true when it isn't.
The game is awash in ways to get dilithium. I logged in three times yesterday solely to do the doff missions and my KDF hit her refining cap. This never happened before S7.
I'm now farming in the laziest possible way the game allows and if I can hit the refining cap, more active players can do so as well.
If you meant, "Everyone is throwing their dil at the vanity items like fleet bases and not throwing it at the exchange" then I'd agree with you. If you meant, "Players continue to be in a snit over the loss of the exploits and are hoarding their dil." I'd also agree with you.
Comments
Currently as of 12/26/2012 - the Dilithium market is at 99 Dilithium per Zen point, it is very bad news for Dilithium buyers, but GREAT news for those who are buying Zen.
There is one major problem with Zen:
There isn't much to buy with it - As for me there is a KDF Nausicaan ship that is worth 1K Zen & the Vesta Pack at 5K.
and Keys for EC.
It is Dilithium that I'm in need of in large quantities, so far the exchange is poo poo.
So other players are "greedy & selfish" because they don't make the price of dil how you like it.
That's..... interesting. :P
....if you're a long-time player who's already bought what they want. If you're a relatively new player (or a true "f2p" player), there's likely all sorts of things, from inventory increases & account banks, to ships, to doff slot increases, to costume parts, etc.
Yeah, and the ever popular lottery tickets, er, I mean keys. :rolleyes:
(Personally, I've bought some character slots & a costume piece in the last day. Still plenty of things I might buy, but I'm waiting on what to do with my other 3k-and-increasing zen. 2000 of which I bought, after spending the other ~2k I bought. If I were in a fleet - haven't found the right one yet - I'd be contributing dil, because I've only been selling the dil on my alts; my main character has ~90k dil saved for a rainy day.)
There is no hell. You are simply inconvenienced and want the entire player base to change so you can get your next base vanity item. I understand why you wouldn't like it, but your fleetmates need to step up. It's not our problem, it's your fleet's. Whip them into shape, wait for them to buy what they want from the Zen Store, or join a better fleet.
If you are looking for other players to scold into making your life easier, find the people not putting their dilithium on the exchange. The game is still lousy with the stuff. It ain't folks like me throwing what they earn at it who are the problem.
Nope. Just as guilty since I have participated in the market. I have bought dilithium at those ridiculous prices to fill in fleet projects. I too am part of the problem.
At one point I thought that if I was part of the problem then I should perhaps stop making the problem worse.
The only thing I can do is to stop buying dilithium, use only the dilithium I can produce on my own (even if it means going without certain items for awhile) and encourage my fleetmates and friends to do the same.
Not just for me. There are plenty of other players in the same boat I'm in. A personal interest in an issue, if anything, should make one more motivated to speak out, not less.
On my end I have come up with solutions to encourage more participation. For example, I offer my fleetmates prizes for reaching certain points in the leaderboard. Good prizes too. 1 mil is a console and mirror ship prize pack (I'll change since those have become dirt cheap, but at the time it was pretty good). 5 mil is a lockbox ship.
But mostly I hear from fleetmates on how they're trying to save up for a Vesta pack, or to get more lockbox keys, or just essentially grinding away to get c-store items. Can't blame them.
So I can encourage my fleetmates, but I can only do so much.
And I can't do any widespread change in dilithium values on my own. I just don't have the resources at this time. There are people with 100k+ zen that can do it, but why would they?
The only thing I can do is speak out and hope there's a chance in hell that someone will listen. Maybe in this debate I might actually find a solution that won't just benefit myself, but the majority.
After all, I believe that there is a point where both buyers and sellers can live with. Trying to establish that point is, as we can tell from our back and forth, really difficult.
As for how cryptic sees it, those who have lifetime subscriptions and have maxed out the c-store should understand that, rightly or wrongly, cryptic already have their cash and aren't likely to make much more off them.
I guess you could say that 100 dil per zen might be fair since the C-store sets the price of Zen to $1 american for every 100 zen.
But then again, dilithium costs for items with a c-store equivalent (such as starships) are harder to quantify.
But it is safe to assume that a top of the line c-store ship should cost no more than $20-$25 dollars. I think I can go from there and get a proper number for dilithium's actual value.
I'll look into it more tonight.
Nope.
The Market will live on. Give it time, when the next lockbox comes out and we see some new stuff on the Cstore, prices will rise again. Just look at champions, at one point they were lower than we've got right now, but rose again eventually.
What does that have to do with anything?
If you want a game to live you have to support it
If the brave and selfless instant-gratification folks who dump $50 into dil in order to get their Starbase project Right Now aren't catered to with a favorable exchange rate, the game will collapse.
Or something like that.
(Not that CoH really had anything like dil, and massive dil sinks, or an exchange, from what I recall. Could be wrong, though.)
Nope
if the market is not Fixed one way or the other
its going to cause people to give up
(in both directions)
Forget Cryptic. Think PWE. They're damned good at getting people to throw money at them (considering all the "f2p" games they have all using the same zen/exchange concept).
If the system isn't making them money, you can be sure they'll "fix" it. Of course, none of their other games have any issues with the free-market exchanges not working, so I doubt they'd do anything like that.
Just because you don't like the price ratio, doesn't mean the system isn't working.
(And remember - it's all a for-profit system. There's no rational reason for them to flood the market with their own "fake" zen to drive the exchange ratio down, if doing that actually is reducing the amount of zen people are buying. For one, why would they want any zen in the market that wasn't produced by $$$ in their pocket. For two, if they actually were doing this, and their sales started going down? They'd stop doing it, because it's not earning them money.)
edit: You know, PWE? The company that people all over the net call money-grubbing scum who ruin games by making them pay-to-win? Why would they do anything that reduces their profit?
The prices will fix at a rate that enough people find reasonable, naturally. That's how it always worked before, and will work again. Right now we're still trying to find it - and it's lower than where we're at right now, obviously. (Not by much, as the rate drop has slowed quite a lot.)
If enough people are that desperate for dil that they're willing to pay more to get it, then the price will go up; and it will go up until enough people don't think it's worth it anymore, at which point the prices will drop again. This will encourage those people to get back into the market, and prices will stabilize at a point where the most people are happy. Not everyone will be happy, but enough will be.
It's called supply and demand. Simple concept.
there are people deliberately speculating
I don't see a problem with speculators in this game. There actually are things to spend dil on, so a lot of folks are buying to use it - just as Cryptic/PWE intended (I wonder just how much PWE is involved in the development of the game). Speculating when prices are dropping is a pretty bad idea anyways - you don't know how low it will go, and you don't know when the prices are going to get you a decent profit.
do it wrong and other people lose out AND you lose out
Tell me about it!
I tried awhile ago, just after the update to allow Romulan/Omega marks to be cashed in for dilithium took hold. I thought... 'That should get some supply in. People will have dilithium to sell off again. Besides, nobody in their right mind would drop the price lower than the 110 mark....'
God was I wrong. And I got burned for it. I was not happy. So after that I decided not to try speculating ever again.
Captain Ships cost 1500 zen or 80,000 dil (Conversion 1:53)
Rear Admiral Ships cost 2000 zen or 120,000 (Conversion 1:60)
Vice Admiral Ships cost 2500 zen
So seems like we have a problem if the price is at 60. Because then a C-Store ship for 2000 zen would be the same price like a normal ship for 120,000 dil, even though it has a console and should be worth more.
Right now a C-Store Read Admiral Ship is 200,000 dil and a C-Store Vice Admiral Ship is 250,000 dil.
Though I'd rather not give any detractor of mine a victory... I have to concede defeat. Ok, so I guess my point about dilithium being priced too high by using starships as an example doesn't hold up. They win. I lose. I don't like it but I have no choice but to accept it. I'll pay for dilithium at a price I do not like andt daydream about better days when it was 300 to 1.
However, it might lead to the argument that perhaps it's fleet projects that have been overpriced.
A top of the line starship makes a pretty good standard for setting values on anything in the game. It's central position to the game and it's use helps. So... for an item that I expect to get a moderate to a heavy amount of use on any given character I should expect to pay 2500 zen or its dilthium equivalent.
So by the way that dilithium is priced, does it make sense that a starbase vanity piece, or even starbase infrastructure at certain levels, ends up costing more than a top of the line starship?
So I guess I'm saying that dilithium prices on the priciest in game items and upgrades needs an adjustment. If it ends up costing over $25 dollars to say... getting a new conference table for the starbase... something's not right.
1. Dilithium - zen exchange rate is caused by supply and demand, not speculation
2. The current exchange rate, coupled with the difficulty in getting dilithium is likely bad for most players
3. It is not clear if this is good or bad for Cryptic, but I would guess it is bad
4. Making more stuff available by Zen seems like a good thing for them to do
Explanation:
In my opinion, speculating is not the cause of the current market rates or even really close to the cause of it. The simplest explanation, and therefore in my opinion the one that is most likely to be correct is that the current market rate simply reflects the changes to supply and demand Season 7 brought about.
Season 7 drastically increased the demand of dilithium by increasing the amount of dilithium you need for a great number of things. I am not going to list them out, but the reputation system requires a great deal of dilithium, and was a new feature implemented in the game. Hence, a major increase in demand for dilithium, which as expected would lower the amount of dilithium you could buy with Zen.
Season 7 also drastically decreased the supply of dilithium, primarily by eliminating the "clickie" Investigate Officer Report dilithium rewards. I used this almost every day, and I am sure most other people did as well once the found it. Also, other players had anywhere from 2 to dozens of alts that they would log in to do this mission, because you got 1440 dilithium for about 10 to 20 seconds of activity. For all thousands of dilithium you see available on the exchange, keep in mind that prior to this change, a single player could get about 20k dilithium a day in about 10 or so minutes just by doing the clickie missions.
Another thing that may be involved here is a decent increase in the amount of "free" zen that is being put in the system. Prior to Season 7 and the current market rates, a substantial discount was offered on lifetime subscriptions, which give 500 zen a month. I would guess that a lot of the zen that is used to buy dilithium is from this source, and that this source has increased. I dont have any information on how many life time subscriptions Cryptic sold during this time, but this increase in the supply would also lower the amount of dilithium you could buy with Zen.
Whether a price is good or bad depends on which side of the trade you are on. Right now, the dilithium to zen price is great for completely free to play players, because they can get more zen for less dilithium. At the same time, though, getting this dilithium is much more difficult for completely free to play players because of the elimination of clickies and other changes. Also, a completely free to play player has much more things to do with whatever dilithium they get as opposed to putting it on the exchange.
The part of the player base that regularly spends money on zen to get dilithium is hurt the most by the current rates. Though I think a lot of what Sollvax says is wrong, and I think it is a terrible idea to make the exchange a fixed rate, I believe he is in this category so his complaints about the changes make sense.
It is not clear how Cryptic makes out in the whole thing, though I am sure they are watching it all closely. On the one hand, if people continue to regularly buy zen to get dilithium, and even buy more zen to get the dilthium they need, they make out well. On the other hand, if people stop buying zen to get dilithium because they do not feel it is worth it, they make out poorly. Lastly, if otherwise completely free to play players buy zen because it is more difficult to get dilthium with the new changes, and hence get free zen, Cryptic would also make out well. I imagine these are the reasons they decided to make these changes, on top of the clickie missions feeling like an exploit. They probably went too far at first, which is why they added the ability to get dilithium from marks. I personally feel like they need to do more to make dilithium easier to get at this point, both for the game as well as for their profits, but they have access to a lot more information than I do.
I think they should attempt to add in more ways for players to get easier dilithium, but do whatever they can to minimize the problems that came up with the clickies, ie, the clickies were just a silly chore you did to get dilithium as opposed to an actual mission, the clickies were highly exploitable by alts, etc. etc.
Keeping everything how they have it now, but tweeking the dilithium you get up seems like a good way to go.
Adding in more stuff you can get with Zen would also help make Zen more valuable. I extremely think though that this is only a good idea if they keep the game such that you do not actually have to pay anything, so long as you are willing to put in the time. This is one of the best things about this game, and I think it is a counterintuitive truth that people are more willing to pay money for in game items if they could do a bunch of work for it instead. Ie, I am much more willing to spend 5 dollars to get Item X if that item is available to me completely for free after 20 hours of game play that I may not want to do. This is even more the case, if for example, I am able to play for 10 hours which is what I want to play for, and then am able to spend $2.50 to get the item so I dont have play for 10 more hours which I dont want to do. If I was forced to pay 5 dollars or play for 20 hours, I believe I and most others would be less inclined to do so.
What if we made it so you can't get dilithium anywhere except by purchasing crates of it with Zen? Do you think anyone would profit from it besides Cryptic and PWE?
It's just a question, mind you. But after I ask this I bet everyone will have all their energy, torpedo and melee weapons pointed at me. O_O
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
Depends. If the boxes could be sold on the dilithium and ec exchanges, then I would say it would be fair.
To block dilithium from only being available via the cstore would be the worst move since lobi was put in the game...
By the way your talking you pay money for every bit of dilithium you get. You know you can earn dilithium by actually playing the game right?
As long as its fixed amounts and they can NEVER be sold on the exchange its a good idea
And you are welcome to hide behind me when the shooting starts
So instead of players themselves determining the correct price of Zen, Dilithium and by proxy, time... you'd have Cryptic do it instead?
The exchange is working. It's doing its job perfectly.
See, the problem is that people are believing this is true when it isn't.
The game is awash in ways to get dilithium. I logged in three times yesterday solely to do the doff missions and my KDF hit her refining cap. This never happened before S7.
I'm now farming in the laziest possible way the game allows and if I can hit the refining cap, more active players can do so as well.
If you meant, "Everyone is throwing their dil at the vanity items like fleet bases and not throwing it at the exchange" then I'd agree with you. If you meant, "Players continue to be in a snit over the loss of the exploits and are hoarding their dil." I'd also agree with you.
But harder to get? Not in the slightest.