It is true that there are still a lot of ways to get dilithium, and a good doff crew can help you get there. However, the clickies were the easiest way to get dilithium, and they are gone now. I did not hit my refining cap a lot before season 7 during the week, but I usually got about 2-4k a day or so of dilithium. Now during the week, I get 1-2k a day or so. I dont think I am alone in this, and I think it is a big part of the current zen-dilithium exchange rates. As you point out, another big reason is the increase need for dilithium for various things.
Dilithium requisition is harder now than before due to the simple fact that Cryptic intended to spread its acquisition throughout the game. I am not a advent doff'er, simply because it is not my type of gamestyle - however; I was a huge EliteSTF'er Runner that had netted me a considerable amount of Dilithium while obtaining Prototypes.
I did on occasion did the clickies as well, which also net me a good sum of Dilithium at the shortest amount of time possible.
The reduction in Dilithium reward in several key areas of the game that players were accustom to has put a huge dent in obtaining the max amount of Dilithium at the most efficient way.
Currently my old runs are viable, but at a reduce gain:
1) Delta Volanius combined with both diplomacy & Explore strange new worlds
2) Eta Iradani Dailies: Satellite, Freighter rescue, and Ferengi Daily
3) Maybe an Officer report foundry - trick is finding the right mission
4) Streamline it for Defari space and complete all the dailies there
5) If you can Doff, or have the right Doff personnel, maybe set up a few
6) Run STFs (Space ones are the fastest)
So I wonder, on average how long does it take to reach your 8K refinement limit across several toons?
A few hours?
In regards to the Market:
It is exactly what Cryptic intended - Cheapen the Dilithium value per Zen, Spread the acquisition of Dilithium throughout the game so it takes slightly longer.
Create a huge demand for Dilithium via Starbase Projects and now the Rep system.
The original STF setup was a hindrance to the Dilithium market, and Cryptic used the opportunity to jump on the coattail of the playerbase that were tired of syphoning through 100+ STFs only to obtain one prototype.
If the obtaining of Mk XII gear was such a huge problem, then all they had to do was tweak the drop rate to a degree that folks could obtain their Mk XII end game gear.
It was a win win situation for them since they can now charge you for your Mk XII equipment and look favorable in the eyes of its playbase. In my opinion the real intention was to sabotage Dilithium earnings through the STF's medium. At the same time target different areas of the game that earned you a reasonable amount of Dilithium. (We can exclude console clicking since it was not a legit way)
So the current market obviously reflects on the Rep system, with the starbase and now the new embassy projects riding its coattail. So indeed it is working as intended.
Many older players have many of the CStore items, the system caters to the new F2P playerbase to expand their silver accounts. I am not saying that it is wrong, afterall there is nothing wrong with making money. However; Keep in mind that the aim was to deplete any exisiting dilithium sources out there, especially targeting players with huge amounts of it.
Those players can reap the rewards big time if they chose not to horde it, and instead invest in Zen - Yet the average player that need Dilithium to advance anywhere in the game is it hurt the hardest, especially the casuals.
Lets see how the market changes in a few months, hopefully it will balance out. Last night the Dilithium per Zen rate was at 98D to 1Z.
Dilithium requisition is harder now than before due to the simple fact that Cryptic intended to spread its acquisition throughout the game. I am not a advent doff'er, simply because it is not my type of gamestyle - however; I was a huge EliteSTF'er Runner that had netted me a considerable amount of Dilithium while obtaining Prototypes.
I did on occasion did the clickies as well, which also net me a good sum of Dilithium at the shortest amount of time possible.
The reduction in Dilithium reward in several key areas of the game that players were accustom to has put a huge dent in obtaining the max amount of Dilithium at the most efficient way.
Currently my old runs are viable, but at a reduce gain:
1) Delta Volanius combined with both diplomacy & Explore strange new worlds
2) Eta Iradani Dailies: Satellite, Freighter rescue, and Ferengi Daily
3) Maybe an Officer report foundry - trick is finding the right mission
4) Streamline it for Defari space and complete all the dailies there
5) If you can Doff, or have the right Doff personnel, maybe set up a few
6) Run STFs (Space ones are the fastest)
So I wonder, on average how long does it take to reach your 8K refinement limit across several toons?
A few hours?
In regards to the Market:
It is exactly what Cryptic intended - Cheapen the Dilithium value per Zen, Spread the acquisition of Dilithium throughout the game so it takes slightly longer.
Create a huge demand for Dilithium via Starbase Projects and now the Rep system.
The original STF setup was a hindrance to the Dilithium market, and Cryptic used the opportunity to jump on the coattail of the playerbase that were tired of syphoning through 100+ STFs only to obtain one prototype.
If the obtaining of Mk XII gear was such a huge problem, then all they had to do was tweak the drop rate to a degree that folks could obtain their Mk XII end game gear.
It was a win win situation for them since they can now charge you for your Mk XII equipment and look favorable in the eyes of its playbase. In my opinion the real intention was to sabotage Dilithium earnings through the STF's medium. At the same time target different areas of the game that earned you a reasonable amount of Dilithium. (We can exclude console clicking since it was not a legit way)
So the current market obviously reflects on the Rep system, with the starbase and now the new embassy projects riding its coattail. So indeed it is working as intended.
Many older players have many of the CStore items, the system caters to the new F2P playerbase to expand their silver accounts. I am not saying that it is wrong, afterall there is nothing wrong with making money. However; Keep in mind that the aim was to deplete any exisiting dilithium sources out there, especially targeting players with huge amounts of it.
Those players can reap the rewards big time if they chose not to horde it, and instead invest in Zen - Yet the average player that need Dilithium to advance anywhere in the game is it hurt the hardest, especially the casuals.
Lets see how the market changes in a few months, hopefully it will balance out. Last night the Dilithium per Zen rate was at 98D to 1Z.
There are several 50 dil doff missions at your starbase. They will help move the bar much quicker as well.
Really the biggest reason for the Dil exchange rate crash is not that it's harder to get, it's still just as easy to get (excluding previous exploits which can't really be included since they were exploits) if not in fact a little easier now. The biggest issue is that there are now even more dilithium sinks and the amount we gain/refine in a day hasn't inflated accordingly.
The rates we receive/refine should have increased accordingly to match the higher demand of sinks requiring dilithium.
To the people who are ******** that Cryptic are 'controlling' the market... Try actually thinking before you speak. Why would they ever control the market to make Dil worth more than it was before? This means that more free to play players, who never put a penny into the game are able to buy more items from the C-Store. This wouldn't fit the company moto of "give us your money" very well. If they were controlling it, people who spend real money on Zen would be the ones getting the better end of the deal on conversions, to encourage us to actually buy Dilithium.
Prior to season 7, I was buying 200,000 Dilithium a week. This went to fleet projects, ship weapons, personal armour etc. Since the launch of season 7 and the crash in conversion rates, I've not spent a penny of real money on Dilithium, nor do I intend to until it picks up again, which is the same as a lot of people.
What we need is a reduction in the costs of Dilithium sinks, or an increase to the amount we can collect AND refine in a day to help bolster our reserves. As it stands, I've gotten three of my toons to level 5 on the Rep systems, both Omega and Romulan, but I wont be getting any of the items from them any time soon because my Dil goes to fleet projects and they are simply too expensive.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Really the biggest reason for the Dil exchange rate crash is not that it's harder to get, it's still just as easy to get (excluding previous exploits which can't really be included since they were exploits) if not in fact a little easier now. The biggest issue is that there are now even more dilithium sinks and the amount we gain/refine in a day hasn't inflated accordingly.
The rates we receive/refine should have increased accordingly to match the higher demand of sinks requiring dilithium.
To the people who are ******** that Cryptic are 'controlling' the market... Try actually thinking before you speak. Why would they ever control the market to make Dil worth more than it was before? This means that more free to play players, who never put a penny into the game are able to buy more items from the C-Store. This wouldn't fit the company moto of "give us your money" very well. If they were controlling it, people who spend real money on Zen would be the ones getting the better end of the deal on conversions, to encourage us to actually buy Dilithium.
Prior to season 7, I was buying 200,000 Dilithium a week. This went to fleet projects, ship weapons, personal armour etc. Since the launch of season 7 and the crash in conversion rates, I've not spent a penny of real money on Dilithium, nor do I intend to until it picks up again, which is the same as a lot of people.
What we need is a reduction in the costs of Dilithium sinks, or an increase to the amount we can collect AND refine in a day to help bolster our reserves. As it stands, I've gotten three of my toons to level 5 on the Rep systems, both Omega and Romulan, but I wont be getting any of the items from them any time soon because my Dil goes to fleet projects and they are simply too expensive.
What we need is Stoleviathan99 to come on here and explain why this low Zen value is good for cryptic - he did one time a while back I wonder what he thinks now?
dstahl recently commented that the Dilithium change is working as intended, and that it was designed to be a system where players set values.
In a sense, this is true, and it 'functioning' properly. But in a broader economic sense, players do not set the values as much as their demand for the available supply does. To say that players' demand, alone, set the prices for dilithium and Zen is not quite accurate. The other factor is supply.
This is the problem with the dilithium market at the moment. There is a fundamental imbalance between the in-game content that is available through dilithium purchases, and the in-game content that is available through Zen purchases. The market is being distorted by virtue of the fact that Cryptic is releasing a ton of new content that is purchasable by dilithium, but they are releasing very little C-Store content.
The market would balance itself if Cryptic would release more c-store content, and not so much dilithium dependent content. The quantity and quality of the content that Cryptic is releasing is very good, I've got no major complaints there. I just wish they would balance the way they release the content. Until that happens, we will see dilithium's value going through the roof, and we will see Zen's value crashing.
dstahl recently commented that the Dilithium change is working as intended, and that it was designed to be a system where players set values.
In a sense, this is true, and it 'functioning' properly. But in a broader economic sense, players do not set the values as much as their demand for the available supply does. To say that players' demand, alone, set the prices for dilithium and Zen is not quite accurate. The other factor is supply.
This is the problem with the dilithium market at the moment. There is a fundamental imbalance between the in-game content that is available through dilithium purchases, and the in-game content that is available through Zen purchases. The market is being distorted by virtue of the fact that Cryptic is releasing a ton of new content that is purchasable by dilithium, but they are releasing very little C-Store content.
The market would balance itself if Cryptic would release more c-store content, and not so much dilithium dependent content. The quantity and quality of the content that Cryptic is releasing is very good, I've got no major complaints there. I just wish they would balance the way they release the content. Until that happens, we will see dilithium's value going through the roof, and we will see Zen's value crashing.
I keep coming back to the underlying issue - Zen is supposed to come from real dollar purchases and a small amount from mothly stipend.
So why is there more Zen supposedly being bought with real dollars and sold on the exchange then before? At 1/97??
There is a massive supply of Zen plowing into the market - so either A)Cryptic is doing it, or B)People are buying Zen with hard earned cash at an alarming rate to convert at 60% of what they got just over a month ago.
I just can't see why people are spending SO much money on Zen to convert at these prices?
I just can't see why people are spendind SO much money on Zen to concert at these prices?
Because (supply/demand) the Demand is still high enough that it's worth it, for the moneybags & no patience crowd?
(Or they just have so much money that they just don't care - read an article on Wired last month about how those various pvp Facebook games make money.... there's people, like bored lawyers, dropping $1000's a month into those stupid games. So, yeah - there's certainly got to be people out there who aren't bugged by a 1:100 exchange ratio here. Personally, I find even buying $10-20 a week of dil to be beyond insanity, but that just goes to show there's a wide range of views out there.)
Sure, it's not worth it for the people posting here ("OMG, exchange is broken! It's not giving me the prices I'd like!"), but that doesn't mean it's not worth it for everyone. Supply & demand again - if enough people stopped buying Zen to trade into Dil, the supply of Zen would decrease..... and the ratio to Dil would go up.
I keep coming back to the underlying issue - Zen is supposed to come from real dollar purchases and a small amount from mothly stipend.
So why is there more Zen supposedly being bought with real dollars and sold on the exchange then before? At 1/97??
There is a massive supply of Zen plowing into the market - so either A)Cryptic is doing it, or B)People are buying Zen with hard earned cash at an alarming rate to convert at 60% of what they got just over a month ago.
I just can't see why people are spendind SO much money on Zen to concert at these prices?
Because there are lots of people trying to keep up with the heavy dilithium costs.
There is basically only one way to obtain more than 8000 dilithium per day. So if you need lots of dilithium right now, then you're going to need to buy Zen and convert it. The dilithium is in an artificially high demand, the zen is the only transfer mechanism to get that dilithium. There is no other choice.
The dilithium cap prevents players from inflating the value of dilithium via over-farming. This, along with increasing dilithium costs, caps the supply of dilithium, and keeps the demand high.
People want dilithium. The amount of dilithium in the market is restricted. The restricted supply is purchasable by zen. This creates demand for Zen. The amount of Zen in the market is unrestricted. This creates an oversupply of Zen. This all means increasing dilithium costs, and decreasing Zen costs.
Cryptic is just trying to find out how much players are willing to pay for their dilithium. They've come up with a very efficient way of doing so, all while giving the players the illusion of 'freedom to set their own prices'. I don't fault Cryptic at all for doing so. I just wish they would provide other outlets for Zen, in order to balance out the demand for the restricted currency (dilithium) and unrestricted currency (zen); e.g. more C-Store content.
Could it be that the Starbase featured projects rerun may have a temporary factor? At 200K of Dilithium per project, some starbases may have overlooked or not had the chance to get them earlier. So some players may be buying Zen with cash to get the missed projects in quick?
I know it doesn't sound like much, but at 200K per project that would be ... $20 per project if the rate was 100D:1Z. So, at a lower ratio would require more Z.
Because (supply/demand) the Demand is still high enough that it's worth it, for the moneybags & no patience crowd?
(Or they just have so much money that they just don't care - read an article on Wired last month about how those various pvp Facebook games make money.... there's people, like bored lawyers, dropping $1000's a month into those stupid games. So, yeah - there's certainly got to be people out there who aren't bugged by a 1:100 exchange ratio here. Personally, I find even buying $10-20 a week of dil to be beyond insanity, but that just goes to show there's a wide range of views out there.)
Sure, it's not worth it for the people posting here ("OMG, exchange is broken! It's not giving me the prices I'd like!"), but that doesn't mean it's not worth it for everyone. Supply & demand again - if enough people stopped buying Zen to trade into Dil, the supply of Zen would decrease..... and the ratio to Dil would go up.
It doesn't have to be rich person. I know a guy who skipped starbucks for one day, put $6 into zen and dumped it into a fleet project and kept the extra $2 for himself. And he doesn't go to starbucks often. He was just standing in line, thought about the money and decided that he'd rather do something to help all his fleet buddies than drink coffee for 10 minutes.
I can't believe it's going to stay this low for too much longer. What with the Starbase Reruns and people hitting T5 en masse around this time, dil is getting sucked out of the system like crazy, plus the recent sales have made Zen more plentiful.
It's got to go up sometime after January. I don't know if it'll ever get back to 150, but my gut tells me March will see it around 120.
On that note, for as long as it's under 100, every piece of Dil I get coming in is going to Zen to sell once it climbs higher. Either that, or lockbox keys for cheap.
I can't believe it's going to stay this low for too much longer. What with the Starbase Reruns and people hitting T5 en masse around this time, dil is getting sucked out of the system like crazy, plus the recent sales have made Zen more plentiful.
It's got to go up sometime after January. I don't know if it'll ever get back to 150, but my gut tells me March will see it around 120.
On that note, for as long as it's under 100, every piece of Dil I get coming in is going to Zen to sell once it climbs higher. Either that, or lockbox keys for cheap.
I can't believe it's going to stay this low for too much longer. What with the Starbase Reruns and people hitting T5 en masse around this time, dil is getting sucked out of the system like crazy, plus the recent sales have made Zen more plentiful.
It's got to go up sometime after January. I don't know if it'll ever get back to 150, but my gut tells me March will see it around 120.
On that note, for as long as it's under 100, every piece of Dil I get coming in is going to Zen to sell once it climbs higher. Either that, or lockbox keys for cheap.
SOOOOOOOOO many people are converting their dilthium to Zen that it will put a massive cap on any real gains - unless Cryptic comes out with some amazing c-store ships/costumes/unlocks in the near future.
What we need is Stoleviathan99 to come on here and explain why this low Zen value is good for cryptic - he did one time a while back I wonder what he thinks now?
It's basic marginal cost analysis on the money side.
It's not necessarily good. It's not necessarily bad.
Economically, it's good if it doesn't impact volume of transactions too dramatically.
Say 100 people want 50k dilithium each at 300 dil per ZEN. That's 16667 ZEN bought.
Say 25 people want 50k dilithium each at 75 dil per ZEN. That's 16667 ZEN bought and economically a wash, although I'll explain why breaking even might be worth it in a second. But if 26 people want 50k dilithium each at 75 dil per ZEN, that's 17333 ZEN bought. They don't need as much demand at a higher price.
Now... Let's assume there's a 75% reduction in demand at the higher price here. Why would they want it?
Two reasons:
1) It eats stipends faster if dilithium costs more. Stipends almost have to be handled as a liability under generally accepted accounting procedures, a liability for which they make no money after a certrain point... and they HAVE TO recognize the income they received from an LTS sale as having been earned eventually. They are in the red if they can't cover stipends and so they NEED to eliminate the expense generated from stipends as cheaply as possible. Some items they sell have bigger production expenses than others. They make better money and can justify the game easier when they make money for things that cdost less money to make. It isn't just wads of cash floating around. There are legal guidelines for how they recognize and report sales.
2) This is the bigger reason that would persuade many game designers. The more expensive dil is per ZEN, the less the game is pay to win, because the less work it requires the free player to catch up via the dilithium exchange. And as long as they don't lose money OVERALL (they can lose dilithium/ZEN buyers; we're talking total revenue) from lack of demand for exchanges, it makes the game fairer for the player who spends nothing. The ideal is to get the absolute most out of the players with the most to spend and redistribute their game wealth to players who spend less money but who actively play. That's what this does. The ideal from a fairness POV is fewer players buying ZEN or dilithium, a handful of people paying a lot for it (because they can) and effectively bankrolling less affluent players, both through fleets and by selling them ZEN.
This is totally a "tax the rich players to combat P2W" thing from a design perspective.
If I'm poor, I can earn a C-Store ship three times as fast or less when dilithium is worth more relative to ZEN and it is the rich player who picks up the tab for me by paying an inflated price for dilithium.
And I don't think the exchange constitutes a huge part of Cryptic's income but I do think the goal is to get rich players to completely subsidize the C-Store habits of poor players who earn dilithium more, in theory... and that, for Cryptic, that's the basis of a growth strategy for the game.
If they could get one person to pay $10,000,000 for everyone else's spare dilithium, they'd do just that. It's about extracting the most money from the players who have the most.
Basically, I think Cryptic would rather have a few happy whales subsidizing everyone else's game experience than have lots of small whales spending more than they can afford.
Better to have a few patrons who spend a lot get very little and a million moochers than one in ten players being patrons and getting dramatically more than the moochers. And I suspect the numbers show this is a better growth strategy for a F2P game.
And as long as that financially works and to the extent that works, I think Cryptic would rather have that than a middle class of players who feel compelled to spend more.
It's basic marginal cost analysis on the money side.
It's not necessarily good. It's not necessarily bad.
Economically, it's good if it doesn't impact volume of transactions too dramatically.
Say 100 people want 50k dilithium each at 300 dil per ZEN. That's 16667 ZEN bought.
Say 25 people want 50k dilithium each at 75 dil per ZEN. That's 16667 ZEN bought and economically a wash, although I'll explain why breaking even might be worth it in a second. But if 26 people want 50k dilithium each at 75 dil per ZEN, that's 17333 ZEN bought. They don't need as much demand at a higher price.
Now... Let's assume there's a 75% reduction in demand at the higher price here. Why would they want it?
Two reasons:
1) It eats stipends faster if dilithium costs more. Stipends almost have to be handled as a liability under generally accepted accounting procedures, a liability for which they make no money after a certrain point... and they HAVE TO recognize the income they received from an LTS sale as having been earned eventually. They are in the red if they can't cover stipends and so they NEED to eliminate the expense generated from stipends as cheaply as possible. Some items they sell have bigger production expenses than others. They make better money and can justify the game easier when they make money for things that cdost less money to make. It isn't just wads of cash floating around. There are legal guidelines for how they recognize and report sales.
2) This is the bigger reason that would persuade many game designers. The more expensive dil is per ZEN, the less the game is pay to win, because the less work it requires the free player to catch up via the dilithium exchange. And as long as they don't lose money OVERALL (they can lose dilithium/ZEN buyers; we're talking total revenue) from lack of demand for exchanges, it makes the game fairer for the player who spends nothing. The ideal is to get the absolute most out of the players with the most to spend and redistribute their game wealth to players who spend less money but who actively play. That's what this does. The ideal from a fairness POV is fewer players buying ZEN or dilithium, a handful of people paying a lot for it (because they can) and effectively bankrolling less affluent players, both through fleets and by selling them ZEN.
This is totally a "tax the rich players to combat P2W" thing from a design perspective.
If I'm poor, I can earn a C-Store ship three times as fast or less when dilithium is worth more relative to ZEN and it is the rich player who picks up the tab for me by paying an inflated price for dilithium.
And I don't think the exchange constitutes a huge part of Cryptic's income but I do think the goal is to get rich players to completely subsidize the C-Store habits of poor players who earn dilithium more, in theory... and that, for Cryptic, that's the basis of a growth strategy for the game.
If they could get one person to pay $10,000,000 for everyone else's spare dilithium, they'd do just that. It's about extracting the most money from the players who have the most.
Thanks for posting a reply - I too am beginning to believe they want this to stay low. Your Analysis is probably spot on.
The only thing that could throw a wrench in the plan is if the "rich/heavy" Zen Buyers with real world dollars decide it's too low and cut back in large amounts.
But, if the exhange rate is low (97 D:1 Z), then that benefits the Dilithium sellers, correct?
So, is it the D-buyers or Z-sellers who is yelling the most about the "crash"?
It's the D-buyers. Because they have less control. But in terms of the game's overall health, it may be GOOD for there to be fewer D-buyers paying more, so it's not really a threat to say you won't buy dilithium at a certain price. You don't have to.
And if it starts impacting the health of the game (not your preference but the health of the game overall) then all Cryptic has to do is launch more sinks on one side or the other.
Thanks for posting a reply - I too am beginning to believe they want this to stay low. Your Analysis is probably spot on.
The only thing that could throw a wrench in the plan is if the "rich/heavy" Zen Buyers with real world dollars decide it's too low and cut back in large amounts.
They might but if they do, the price adjusts up. Or if volume of transactions declines, Cryptic just introduces more things like Fleet Ship Modules to push people to be willing to sell their dilithium for a less expensive price in order to get ZEN.
The market would balance itself if Cryptic would release more c-store content, and not so much dilithium dependent content. The quantity and quality of the content that Cryptic is releasing is very good, I've got no major complaints there. I just wish they would balance the way they release the content. Until that happens, we will see dilithium's value going through the roof, and we will see Zen's value crashing.
I agree that this would certainly help matters. However, they keep harming the C-Store by adding new content as character unlocks instead of account unlocks, so people tend to avoid buying them. Also, with the Lobi store, they seem to prefer adding content there now as it forces people to spend anywhere up to several hundred dollars, for something they could have bought for twenty if it were on the C-Store.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Really the biggest reason for the Dil exchange rate crash is not that it's harder to get, it's still just as easy to get (excluding previous exploits which can't really be included since they were exploits) if not in fact a little easier now. The biggest issue is that there are now even more dilithium sinks and the amount we gain/refine in a day hasn't inflated accordingly.
The rates we receive/refine should have increased accordingly to match the higher demand of sinks requiring dilithium
I agree, they should raised the refinement cap to balance the high demand for it. If I am not mistaken, I thought there was talks about lifting the cap at a higher level.
It's the D-buyers. Because they have less control. But in terms of the game's overall health, it may be GOOD for there to be fewer D-buyers paying more, so it's not really a threat to say you won't buy dilithium at a certain price. You don't have to.
And if it starts impacting the health of the game (not your preference but the health of the game overall) then all Cryptic has to do is launch more sinks on one side or the other.
Leviathan, what you just stated makes perfect sense, since afterall Zen Buyers often tend to open their wallets. There is however; One thing to be noted:
You stated that all Cryptic needs to do is launch more sinks on one side or the other in order to sustain the overall health of the game's economy.
Thats the crux of the matter - for it may be easier to add more sinks from the Dilithium end of things than to create things for the Zen market.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but folks here mentioned that character only unlocks will be frowned upon, in which I agree. Then there is the issue of the Lobi store becoming the CStore spiritual successor.
The biggest ticket items that we all are aware are the CStore vessels and lockbox vessels. They tend to earn the most, least in my eyes - frankly they are running low on Canon ships and will probably have to stretch the envelope so to speak.
so they can fill up Zen store with new ships, costumes, bundles,... etc
people will also buy inventory slots, toons slots, bank slots, respecs, etc..
After another 2 years - 4th faction
they could also add more social stuff.. off-duty clothing for KDF, (KDF uniforms too), some social gathering, i wouldn't be opposed to online poker on Drozana - playing for latinum with another 4 REAL people,
they should sell stuff for latinum..
so they can fill up Zen store with new ships, costumes, bundles,... etc
people will also buy inventory slots, toons slots, bank slots, respecs, etc..
After another 2 years - 4th faction
they could also add more social stuff.. off-duty clothing for KDF, (KDF uniforms too), some social gathering, i wouldn't be opposed to online poker on Drozana - playing for latinum with another 4 REAL people,
they should sell stuff for latinum..
so if they weren't time limited people would not be PUSHED into donating 200k dilith in a fortnight
Also if Zen could not be stockpiled over the most expensive item in the z store then speculation would ~END
That wouldn't ever work. You can buy bundles of Zen, far greater than the highest priced C-Store item, so they couldn't put a cap on Zen. Nor should they, because stockpiling Zen isn't the problem with the market.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Comments
It is true that there are still a lot of ways to get dilithium, and a good doff crew can help you get there. However, the clickies were the easiest way to get dilithium, and they are gone now. I did not hit my refining cap a lot before season 7 during the week, but I usually got about 2-4k a day or so of dilithium. Now during the week, I get 1-2k a day or so. I dont think I am alone in this, and I think it is a big part of the current zen-dilithium exchange rates. As you point out, another big reason is the increase need for dilithium for various things.
I did on occasion did the clickies as well, which also net me a good sum of Dilithium at the shortest amount of time possible.
The reduction in Dilithium reward in several key areas of the game that players were accustom to has put a huge dent in obtaining the max amount of Dilithium at the most efficient way.
Currently my old runs are viable, but at a reduce gain:
1) Delta Volanius combined with both diplomacy & Explore strange new worlds
2) Eta Iradani Dailies: Satellite, Freighter rescue, and Ferengi Daily
3) Maybe an Officer report foundry - trick is finding the right mission
4) Streamline it for Defari space and complete all the dailies there
5) If you can Doff, or have the right Doff personnel, maybe set up a few
6) Run STFs (Space ones are the fastest)
So I wonder, on average how long does it take to reach your 8K refinement limit across several toons?
A few hours?
In regards to the Market:
It is exactly what Cryptic intended - Cheapen the Dilithium value per Zen, Spread the acquisition of Dilithium throughout the game so it takes slightly longer.
Create a huge demand for Dilithium via Starbase Projects and now the Rep system.
The original STF setup was a hindrance to the Dilithium market, and Cryptic used the opportunity to jump on the coattail of the playerbase that were tired of syphoning through 100+ STFs only to obtain one prototype.
If the obtaining of Mk XII gear was such a huge problem, then all they had to do was tweak the drop rate to a degree that folks could obtain their Mk XII end game gear.
It was a win win situation for them since they can now charge you for your Mk XII equipment and look favorable in the eyes of its playbase. In my opinion the real intention was to sabotage Dilithium earnings through the STF's medium. At the same time target different areas of the game that earned you a reasonable amount of Dilithium. (We can exclude console clicking since it was not a legit way)
So the current market obviously reflects on the Rep system, with the starbase and now the new embassy projects riding its coattail. So indeed it is working as intended.
Many older players have many of the CStore items, the system caters to the new F2P playerbase to expand their silver accounts. I am not saying that it is wrong, afterall there is nothing wrong with making money. However; Keep in mind that the aim was to deplete any exisiting dilithium sources out there, especially targeting players with huge amounts of it.
Those players can reap the rewards big time if they chose not to horde it, and instead invest in Zen - Yet the average player that need Dilithium to advance anywhere in the game is it hurt the hardest, especially the casuals.
Lets see how the market changes in a few months, hopefully it will balance out. Last night the Dilithium per Zen rate was at 98D to 1Z.
There are several 50 dil doff missions at your starbase. They will help move the bar much quicker as well.
The rates we receive/refine should have increased accordingly to match the higher demand of sinks requiring dilithium.
To the people who are ******** that Cryptic are 'controlling' the market... Try actually thinking before you speak. Why would they ever control the market to make Dil worth more than it was before? This means that more free to play players, who never put a penny into the game are able to buy more items from the C-Store. This wouldn't fit the company moto of "give us your money" very well. If they were controlling it, people who spend real money on Zen would be the ones getting the better end of the deal on conversions, to encourage us to actually buy Dilithium.
Prior to season 7, I was buying 200,000 Dilithium a week. This went to fleet projects, ship weapons, personal armour etc. Since the launch of season 7 and the crash in conversion rates, I've not spent a penny of real money on Dilithium, nor do I intend to until it picks up again, which is the same as a lot of people.
What we need is a reduction in the costs of Dilithium sinks, or an increase to the amount we can collect AND refine in a day to help bolster our reserves. As it stands, I've gotten three of my toons to level 5 on the Rep systems, both Omega and Romulan, but I wont be getting any of the items from them any time soon because my Dil goes to fleet projects and they are simply too expensive.
What we need is Stoleviathan99 to come on here and explain why this low Zen value is good for cryptic - he did one time a while back I wonder what he thinks now?
In a sense, this is true, and it 'functioning' properly. But in a broader economic sense, players do not set the values as much as their demand for the available supply does. To say that players' demand, alone, set the prices for dilithium and Zen is not quite accurate. The other factor is supply.
This is the problem with the dilithium market at the moment. There is a fundamental imbalance between the in-game content that is available through dilithium purchases, and the in-game content that is available through Zen purchases. The market is being distorted by virtue of the fact that Cryptic is releasing a ton of new content that is purchasable by dilithium, but they are releasing very little C-Store content.
The market would balance itself if Cryptic would release more c-store content, and not so much dilithium dependent content. The quantity and quality of the content that Cryptic is releasing is very good, I've got no major complaints there. I just wish they would balance the way they release the content. Until that happens, we will see dilithium's value going through the roof, and we will see Zen's value crashing.
I keep coming back to the underlying issue - Zen is supposed to come from real dollar purchases and a small amount from mothly stipend.
So why is there more Zen supposedly being bought with real dollars and sold on the exchange then before? At 1/97??
There is a massive supply of Zen plowing into the market - so either A)Cryptic is doing it, or B)People are buying Zen with hard earned cash at an alarming rate to convert at 60% of what they got just over a month ago.
I just can't see why people are spending SO much money on Zen to convert at these prices?
Because (supply/demand) the Demand is still high enough that it's worth it, for the moneybags & no patience crowd?
(Or they just have so much money that they just don't care - read an article on Wired last month about how those various pvp Facebook games make money.... there's people, like bored lawyers, dropping $1000's a month into those stupid games. So, yeah - there's certainly got to be people out there who aren't bugged by a 1:100 exchange ratio here. Personally, I find even buying $10-20 a week of dil to be beyond insanity, but that just goes to show there's a wide range of views out there.)
Sure, it's not worth it for the people posting here ("OMG, exchange is broken! It's not giving me the prices I'd like!"), but that doesn't mean it's not worth it for everyone. Supply & demand again - if enough people stopped buying Zen to trade into Dil, the supply of Zen would decrease..... and the ratio to Dil would go up.
Because there are lots of people trying to keep up with the heavy dilithium costs.
There is basically only one way to obtain more than 8000 dilithium per day. So if you need lots of dilithium right now, then you're going to need to buy Zen and convert it. The dilithium is in an artificially high demand, the zen is the only transfer mechanism to get that dilithium. There is no other choice.
The dilithium cap prevents players from inflating the value of dilithium via over-farming. This, along with increasing dilithium costs, caps the supply of dilithium, and keeps the demand high.
People want dilithium. The amount of dilithium in the market is restricted. The restricted supply is purchasable by zen. This creates demand for Zen. The amount of Zen in the market is unrestricted. This creates an oversupply of Zen. This all means increasing dilithium costs, and decreasing Zen costs.
Cryptic is just trying to find out how much players are willing to pay for their dilithium. They've come up with a very efficient way of doing so, all while giving the players the illusion of 'freedom to set their own prices'. I don't fault Cryptic at all for doing so. I just wish they would provide other outlets for Zen, in order to balance out the demand for the restricted currency (dilithium) and unrestricted currency (zen); e.g. more C-Store content.
I know it doesn't sound like much, but at 200K per project that would be ... $20 per project if the rate was 100D:1Z. So, at a lower ratio would require more Z.
It's got to go up sometime after January. I don't know if it'll ever get back to 150, but my gut tells me March will see it around 120.
On that note, for as long as it's under 100, every piece of Dil I get coming in is going to Zen to sell once it climbs higher. Either that, or lockbox keys for cheap.
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Yup. I think this is a good sign personally. ^_^
SOOOOOOOOO many people are converting their dilthium to Zen that it will put a massive cap on any real gains - unless Cryptic comes out with some amazing c-store ships/costumes/unlocks in the near future.
It's basic marginal cost analysis on the money side.
It's not necessarily good. It's not necessarily bad.
Economically, it's good if it doesn't impact volume of transactions too dramatically.
Say 100 people want 50k dilithium each at 300 dil per ZEN. That's 16667 ZEN bought.
Say 25 people want 50k dilithium each at 75 dil per ZEN. That's 16667 ZEN bought and economically a wash, although I'll explain why breaking even might be worth it in a second. But if 26 people want 50k dilithium each at 75 dil per ZEN, that's 17333 ZEN bought. They don't need as much demand at a higher price.
Now... Let's assume there's a 75% reduction in demand at the higher price here. Why would they want it?
Two reasons:
1) It eats stipends faster if dilithium costs more. Stipends almost have to be handled as a liability under generally accepted accounting procedures, a liability for which they make no money after a certrain point... and they HAVE TO recognize the income they received from an LTS sale as having been earned eventually. They are in the red if they can't cover stipends and so they NEED to eliminate the expense generated from stipends as cheaply as possible. Some items they sell have bigger production expenses than others. They make better money and can justify the game easier when they make money for things that cdost less money to make. It isn't just wads of cash floating around. There are legal guidelines for how they recognize and report sales.
2) This is the bigger reason that would persuade many game designers. The more expensive dil is per ZEN, the less the game is pay to win, because the less work it requires the free player to catch up via the dilithium exchange. And as long as they don't lose money OVERALL (they can lose dilithium/ZEN buyers; we're talking total revenue) from lack of demand for exchanges, it makes the game fairer for the player who spends nothing. The ideal is to get the absolute most out of the players with the most to spend and redistribute their game wealth to players who spend less money but who actively play. That's what this does. The ideal from a fairness POV is fewer players buying ZEN or dilithium, a handful of people paying a lot for it (because they can) and effectively bankrolling less affluent players, both through fleets and by selling them ZEN.
This is totally a "tax the rich players to combat P2W" thing from a design perspective.
If I'm poor, I can earn a C-Store ship three times as fast or less when dilithium is worth more relative to ZEN and it is the rich player who picks up the tab for me by paying an inflated price for dilithium.
And I don't think the exchange constitutes a huge part of Cryptic's income but I do think the goal is to get rich players to completely subsidize the C-Store habits of poor players who earn dilithium more, in theory... and that, for Cryptic, that's the basis of a growth strategy for the game.
If they could get one person to pay $10,000,000 for everyone else's spare dilithium, they'd do just that. It's about extracting the most money from the players who have the most.
Better to have a few patrons who spend a lot get very little and a million moochers than one in ten players being patrons and getting dramatically more than the moochers. And I suspect the numbers show this is a better growth strategy for a F2P game.
And as long as that financially works and to the extent that works, I think Cryptic would rather have that than a middle class of players who feel compelled to spend more.
So, is it the D-buyers or Z-sellers who is yelling the most about the "crash"?
Thanks for posting a reply - I too am beginning to believe they want this to stay low. Your Analysis is probably spot on.
The only thing that could throw a wrench in the plan is if the "rich/heavy" Zen Buyers with real world dollars decide it's too low and cut back in large amounts.
It's the D-buyers. Because they have less control. But in terms of the game's overall health, it may be GOOD for there to be fewer D-buyers paying more, so it's not really a threat to say you won't buy dilithium at a certain price. You don't have to.
And if it starts impacting the health of the game (not your preference but the health of the game overall) then all Cryptic has to do is launch more sinks on one side or the other.
They might but if they do, the price adjusts up. Or if volume of transactions declines, Cryptic just introduces more things like Fleet Ship Modules to push people to be willing to sell their dilithium for a less expensive price in order to get ZEN.
I agree that this would certainly help matters. However, they keep harming the C-Store by adding new content as character unlocks instead of account unlocks, so people tend to avoid buying them. Also, with the Lobi store, they seem to prefer adding content there now as it forces people to spend anywhere up to several hundred dollars, for something they could have bought for twenty if it were on the C-Store.
I agree, they should raised the refinement cap to balance the high demand for it. If I am not mistaken, I thought there was talks about lifting the cap at a higher level.
Leviathan, what you just stated makes perfect sense, since afterall Zen Buyers often tend to open their wallets. There is however; One thing to be noted:
You stated that all Cryptic needs to do is launch more sinks on one side or the other in order to sustain the overall health of the game's economy.
Thats the crux of the matter - for it may be easier to add more sinks from the Dilithium end of things than to create things for the Zen market.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but folks here mentioned that character only unlocks will be frowned upon, in which I agree. Then there is the issue of the Lobi store becoming the CStore spiritual successor.
The biggest ticket items that we all are aware are the CStore vessels and lockbox vessels. They tend to earn the most, least in my eyes - frankly they are running low on Canon ships and will probably have to stretch the envelope so to speak.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/so+to+speak
so they can fill up Zen store with new ships, costumes, bundles,... etc
people will also buy inventory slots, toons slots, bank slots, respecs, etc..
After another 2 years - 4th faction
they could also add more social stuff.. off-duty clothing for KDF, (KDF uniforms too), some social gathering, i wouldn't be opposed to online poker on Drozana - playing for latinum with another 4 REAL people,
they should sell stuff for latinum..
Now thats an ultimate solution
Also reducing ALL special projects in price OR removing the timers
Well, capping Zen will more than likely hinder the market, but increasing the Dilithium Refinement Cap will enhance it.
I do not know if removing the Timers on special projects will have a huge affect on the economy, or how big of an impact it will have on it.
Why the Timers? I mean tier 4 projects are almost a week long, I never understood that?
I seriously feel that reducing starbase project cost is something that needs to be done.
so if they weren't time limited people would not be PUSHED into donating 200k dilith in a fortnight
Also if Zen could not be stockpiled over the most expensive item in the z store then speculation would ~END
That wouldn't ever work. You can buy bundles of Zen, far greater than the highest priced C-Store item, so they couldn't put a cap on Zen. Nor should they, because stockpiling Zen isn't the problem with the market.