If you are looking for a fleet for purely social purposes and enjoy a small fleet setting, then continue to be in a small fleet. You will be waiting forever for shinies but that is the trade off.
If you are looking for a fleet to be a source of shinies, then get into at least a medium sized fleet and contribute to the projects.
It's very sad that you apparently think this is a desirable and proper way for things to be. In my world, forcing players to choose between friends and gameplay rewards is how you frustrate and alienate them.
If you are looking for a fleet for purely social purposes and enjoy a small fleet setting, then continue to be in a small fleet. You will be waiting forever for shinies but that is the trade off.
If you are looking for a fleet to be a source of shinies, then get into at least a medium sized fleet and contribute to the projects.
I have been on both sides of the issue personally. I often get asked to join power fleets, but I really like the fleet I am in, so I stay. We are going to have to wait longer for some of the shinies, but I enjoy the community we have and that is more valuable than the shinies to me. If my perspective on that changes, I will join a bigger fleet and sacrifice the other aspects.
Consider this:
You CHOOSE to make a five man fleet. Or ... you CHOOSE to join a 200 man fleet. Either way it is YOUR CHOICE.
You could choose to hit somewhere in the middle. Instead of having a five man fleet or joining a 200 man fleet, consider being part of a medium sized fleet. Your five man fleet could be contributing those resources to projects that actually get completed. You could have your shinies AND still enjoy most of the small community flavor.
Expecting to have similar results from an itty bitty fleet and be on the same playing field with larger fleets, is like going into Gorn Minefield in a T2 ship with white MK III gear and then complaining that the "system of things" doesn't let you get first place.
You want your small tight knit group and not have to socialize with a larger group? I think that is awesome, but sorry, you don't get the same shinies as a huge fleet that has to deal with all the issues it presents.
That said, having to do anything (I.E. Officer of the Watch or in the case of Romulan Marks: Staging Area Daily) for a reward of five or ten marks seems pointless to me, regardless of how little time is involved. Just do other missions that reward better and don;t waste time on these missions.
And that is my two cents worth.
This depends, of course, on whether or not any of those larger fleets will take you and your alts, you who might be a newbie, or a random stranger that they can't tell from a bank looter, or someone they just can't fit in because of the 500 person limit.
Im in a Smaller Fleet. we have about 15-20 active people that r on all the time. It has been ever since Season 7 and the new Rep system and the changes tot he dilithium that is killing us. Our starbase has not progressed at all since it launched. not 1 project. and its all fleet marks and dilithium
*Me*Why don't you just step away from the weapons console. You and I both know that you couldn't hit that cube, even if it was right in front of us. *Junior Tactical Officer* But sir the cube IS right in front of us. *Me* EXACTLY! Its right in front of us and you still missed it! Just step away from the console.
Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
I don't get the excitement at all. This is not EVE where your Starbase actually covers a space in a vast universe which can be dealt with freely by any other player. The STO Starbase is a minigame in an instance where people put all their ressources because they are bored. For everyone outside of your fleet, your starbase doesn't even exist. It really doesn't matter how far you advance and at what point you are doing it, relax and either be merry with it or play one of the games out there doing it better
This is one of the key issues at fault there though, is it not?
Not meaning the fact that the Starbases are perfectly secure, but more it does mean something.
As the Fleet Starbase is capable of providing all of the same perks you get from the Major Starbases without the latency... not to mention the "Fleet Gear", most of which is simply better versions of what require normal drops.
What frankly pisses me off about STO is the sheer amount of mindless grind you have to do to earn anything. It isn't as if on my weekends off I can simply grind out all the Dilithium, Duty Officers, etc... that are required for projects, not to mention I have to rely heavily upon the Exchange (which desperately needs to be improved) for the majority of my Energy Credit income - so even that is hit'n'miss.
No instead everything is designed for people to be on absolutely every day, like a damn job... you get on grind, set that days tasks going with the hope that by the end of the week your fleet might've scrapped enough together (this is particularly true of Duty Officer requirements as you can't simply BUY White (Common) officers like you can Green (Uncommon) NNOOOOO you have to sent away for a 2 Day recruitment thing or buy via Doff Packs) to complete 3 projects.
Everyone says "well just go on your other characters and grind on them too", but when you MUST use Alts daily (which is EXTRA grinding) just to afford projects ... there is a point where you have to seriously ask yourself.
IS THIS WORTH IT?!
The strong resounding answer that I personally hear back is, NO.
There is no damn point in any of this Starbase or Embassy TRIBBLE.
I could invite non-fleet to them ... oh wow, I can do that with my damn cookie cutter bridge as well. Don't see the bloody point there either.
Could they be used in PvP? Well what's the point there, the game is so in-balanced in how it is designed that PvP is a waste of bloody time unless you've already got the top most gear available ... it isn't like EVE when people won't use a module cause they can lose it so everyone always uses the best damn equippment possible - which if you can't often not possible without mindless grinding them it ends up a slaughter.
So then perhaps PvE? Well no cause that is also frankly the most inbalanced thing that doesn't properly scale with levels because abilities frankly are OP in many cases; especially in the hands of the NPCs who tend to have 3-4 abilities that it can use at one time = Instant Pop for your Starship, regardless of how awesome the kit on-board makes it.
This often can happen so quickly you don't even SEE the graphics appear for what the hell just apparently hit you. So from your perspective you're alright, tanking the small arms fire then suddenly goodbye 60,000 eHP
Seriously, there is no cause & effect either. I mean I have nothing to fear just flying about, no need to worry about my ship being destroyed... the worse case scenario from failing a mission is a 20hr cooldown, even then it's only specific daily missions.
Honestly, we grind so we can grind some more just so we can grind some more.
Then let's say we do finally grind ourselves the damn damn few missions until we reach Tier 5 Starbases - well what then? You have the requisition stuff (that everything useful costs dilithium, Zen and time) so you've got to grind or actually pay just so you can well get back to grinding again cause you can "finally play the game" ... just to realise as was the case when the game was release THERE IS NOTHING MORE!
You know what I like about EVE, sure someone can blow up my Starbase; but there - doesn't matter if you have 200 members, or 5 members. Creating a Starbase isn't a monumental undertaking... there is no grinding involved to achieve it (unless you want to grind) and what you have at the end provides you with the means for additional income without having to deal with NPC Taxes or other Corporation/Alliances to make it happen.
It is one of the biggest expressions (aside from other things) in the game about your Corporation being Self-Reliant.
With STO, do you know the difference between a Tier 3 - Level 10 Fleet and a Tier 0 one?
E-peen waggling and the fact one clearly has nothing better to do. It means nothing except to those who have done it.
Frankly the way I see it all of these Level 50 "expansions to gameplay after max rank" stuff like Omega, Romulan, Starbase, Embassy and Crafting. All it is are ways for Cryptic/PWE to make more money because they're hoping that if the grind it too much people will pay so it goes quicker. No doubt it is working otherwise it would've been changed.
If you ask me though, this Free-to-Play Nickle'n'Dime TRIBBLE just pisses me off. They want more people to play the game, make it good, make it fun and most importantly MAKE IT WORTH A SUBSCRIPTION.
As a leader of a small fleet, 6 active unique players, most projects will take a week or so. Yes, I miss the 50 mark daily quickies, but so do the large fleets. I understand the value of our starbase. Yes it feels like a grind at times and as a small fleet we have to focus on one tier and one specialty at a time. Larger fleets don't have that problem. But in the end, I don't think there is an easy answer. The issue is really more about how make the fleet system not seem like a grind without devaluing the effort.
For one I think the the dailies at the fleet and embassy need to be increased not to 25/50 but more like 10 marks
What I think needs to be added is a few more DoFF missions that reward only fleet marks. Ones were you send out members of your crew into outlining area to promote and foster relationships for your fleet. I know there are ones already, use them as the bench mark, give how much is needed to start them and what you get. I'm not talking about two hour mission for one DoFF, more like a 36/72 hour mission for 10/20 DoFFs.
One idea is an old one from a old cryptic game, city of heroes. There prestige system could be use a base. Trade 25% expertise earned form doing missions not dailies, DoFF or STFs into 1% turned in to fleet marks. This will keep the value of your station and embassy without offsetting the need to help smaller fleets. Also cryptic would add a daily cap on marks earned.
Lastly for cryptic to just sell fleet marks in the C store, one can already buy dilithium why not fleet marks, reputation marks and energy credits
OK, answer me this, smart guy. What about people in small-to-medium sized fleets who watched their members bail one-by-one for the instant gratification of joining a big fleet and gaining immediate access to everything? What about those smaller fleets that were humming along at a relatively decent pace, then found significant sources of income removed or reduced. Are we expected to see the future in making these CHOICES?
OR, do you expect us to waste all that effort and disband our little unloved fleets so we can go sit with the popular kids?
:rolleyes:
Speaking only for myself, all I would ask for is a reduction in fleet base grind across the board. Calling it "endgame content" doesn't negate the fact that none of the stuff you unlock is nearly special enough to justify an investment of years.
Not at all, I myself have turned down offers to join larger fleets with more advanced starbases on a regular basis because I like the fleet I am in. I also recognize that progression will be slower and accept that as a fair trade off for avoiding large fleet drama. As to point two, I agree 100% with reduction across the board of starbase grind cost. In Particular the dilthium cost seem way too high. (of course with those needy Romulans and Omega Forces management gobbling up all my commodities, EC is almost becoming a larger problem)
Actually, we do get the same shinies. Just so much slower that it isn't worth it, and small fleets constitute enough of the player base that this demands more than dismissiv advice to join a big fleet.
I am not ADVISING anyone to join a big fleet. I was the leader of a HUGE Territory War Guild in PWI for over two years and wouldn't do it again if you paid me well. I also do not expect for the mid-sized fleet I am part of to compete with large fleets in starbase progression. I have a CHOICE in the matter and I CHOOSE the smaller fleet because I enjoy the atmosphere more.
It's very sad that you apparently think this is a desirable and proper way for things to be. In my world, forcing players to choose between friends and gameplay rewards is how you frustrate and alienate them.
Again, small fleet = slower progression but less drama. Large fleet = faster progression but more drama. When I was a TW Guild Leader in PWI I would see tiny guild complain they couldn't compete in TW against larger guild and call for things like making the battle 20 -v- 20 instead of 80 -v- 80 to give them a chance. They had no idea how much work actually goes in to leading a large guild/fleet. I myself ended up leaving PWI completely and am now enjoying my STO experience as a member of a medium sized fleet that has no drama whatsoever. Starbase rewards are not GAMEPLAY rewards, unless you consider the dumping of commodities into a mini-game interface to be gameplay, which I do not. Again I agree 100% with hanover that the overall cost of projects is too high. I do however, think that the leaders of the large fleets that work their butts off to keep the fleet togetehr and running deserve to see the members of that fleet rewarded with ITEMS that represent a fair reward for the effort involved.
I have even turned down offers to TEMPORARILY join a large fleet just to purchase items I can't get in my current starbase, because I love my smaller fleet so much, I wouldn't want to have a different fleet name over my head even for the time needed to purchase the items I want. My perspective IS from someone in a smaller fleet. I like my smaller fleet. I do not think we deserve to get top tier rewards as easily as much larger harder to manage fleets.
This depends, of course, on whether or not any of those larger fleets will take you and your alts, you who might be a newbie, or a random stranger that they can't tell from a bank looter, or someone they just can't fit in because of the 500 person limit.
On my KDF toon I just joined a new fleet that is led by one of my favorite in-game friends. He knows me well in game, and we regularly fly together in PvP. Even though he knows I am a good person and will be a valued member of the fleet, I am still required to serve the same waiting period before being allowed purchasing/bank permissions as everyone else. The mechanic (just described) to prevent bank raiders is already in game as you can see. The fleet member is also protected from shenanigans because your fleet credit is bound to you and transfers with you when you change fleets.
As to the rest of your point, which is very valid. I am not suggesting that mini fleets struggling with starbase progression all disband and run off to mega fleets. What I am saying is that there are plenty of medium sized fleets that would be more than happy to add five or ten members from a mini fleet, and that the atmosphere in those fleets will be the same. Unless of course you DO NOT want new friends and players to team with. In that case, stay in a mini fleet and enjoy it. Just don't expect the game to allow you to have a T5 Starbase as the same rate as the mega fleet.
To compare it to another aspect of the game. Elite STFs give much greater rewards than normal. They are also harder to do, and more likely to have something go wrong. Does anyone think that doing Infected Space on the normal setting should give the same reward as Elite Setting? ((I say this as someone who, having already done the grind to unlock elite commander on both my toons, now finds myself sadly "unretired" from STF in order to unlock the passive skills and that (drools a little) Adapted MACO Rifle. Since I already have all the accolades for STF, should I get to just talk to Admiral D'Vak and deliver his laundry once a day and get my T5 Rep just as fast as the person who is starting from scratch and running STFs like crazy? While that would be nice for me, it would not be fair to everyone else.
On a final note. If I were to design a game, the whole system of rewards and progression would not even remotely resemble the MMO mold we are used to. All "endgame" rewards would be from completing scenarios successfully ONE TIME and all scenarios would be extremely difficult to complete successfully. I am however, not the designer of STO, and so I will play within the systems that exist, offer my suggestions for improvement when given a chance to do so, and enjoy the game for what it is. My fleet will see out T5 Shipyard in about twice the time it will take a megafleet, and I will smile and buy my Fleet Armitage, knowing I helped make it possible.
I would like an easy 50 marks each day too. Ever since they made it harder to complete the investigate officer reports daily, I now have to rely completely on the double fleet mark event and do fleet actions to get my marks.
A daily that takes ~30 mins to complete and offers 50 fleet marks wouldn't rock the boat too much. I just don't have the time or patience to do 3 "full-sized" foundry missions for fleet marks.
Have you seen some of the things on foundry that end up getting 4 or 5 stars? Digital novels that take 3 hours or more to read. If I was forced to do that I would kill myself by repeatedly bashing my face into my keyboard.
Except they are because you never get Fleet Marks for free, even the Officer of the Watch missions are gameplay.
Otherwise the Reputation system is not GAMEPLAY rewards either, despite the fact you need Marks to advance and Marks are gameplay rewards.
Your point well taken, but starbase rewards are specifically reward for GROUPS of people working together. Larger groups are able to generate more resources, but require more work to maintain. Therefore better rewards. The starbase rewards are rewards for being ina fleet specifically. Therefore, larger fleet = larger (faster) rewards potential. It's a choice you have to make. Once again, I personally choose to NOT be in a larger fleet and get my rewards a little slower, but enjoy the ride a lot more. The game does not require you to make the same choice. The only thing preventing you from being in a larger fleet and getting rewarded faster is yourself and the choices you make.
A daily that takes ~30 mins to complete and offers 50 fleet marks wouldn't rock the boat too much. I just don't have the time or patience to do 3 "full-sized" foundry missions for fleet marks.
Colony invasion takes 15 minutes tops if you bork it the whole way and gives @20 marks. Same with Fleet Alert. Do them during rep event and you have your 50 marks in thirty minutes. Cooldown is 30 minutes so you could literally cycle those two Fleet Mark missions endlessly. I have done exactly that in order to help complete a project. What we need is MORE Fleet Mark missions, MORE STF mission and MORE Romulan Rep Missions so we can have more variety. We don't need quickies.
Myself, since I find repetitive grind to be the worst part of MMO gameplay, I would prefer that they make a few missions that are longer, more complicated, and with multiple possible paths and outcomes that offer bigger rewards. I would rather take part in an EPIC two hour long Fleet Mission that gave a 200 mark reward, than do 8 fifteen minute missions in a repeating cycle for the same marks.
The foundry issue is another issue entirely. I agree 100% that the reward is bleh for the Investigate Daily. I would rather the reward be structured so that the author would be given a choice of an item reward to assign to the mission. (reward value could be tied to number of objectives) and then award dilthium and YOUR CHOICE of marks on a per mission basis. This would allow foundry authors like myself to tie an interesting (and theme related) item reward to our missions, encouraging people to play them.
Wouldn't it be awesome if I could offer a MK XI Purple Anti Borg Rifle for beating my Borg Mission? Add to that 15 Marks and 480 Dilithium and it's a perfect reward structure for the foundry. I bet I would get more tips as well! LOL
This is one of the key issues at fault there though, is it not?
Not meaning the fact that the Starbases are perfectly secure, but more it does mean something.
As the Fleet Starbase is capable of providing all of the same perks you get from the Major Starbases without the latency... not to mention the "Fleet Gear", most of which is simply better versions of what require normal drops.
What frankly pisses me off about STO is the sheer amount of mindless grind you have to do to earn anything. It isn't as if on my weekends off I can simply grind out all the Dilithium, Duty Officers, etc... that are required for projects, not to mention I have to rely heavily upon the Exchange (which desperately needs to be improved) for the majority of my Energy Credit income - so even that is hit'n'miss.
No instead everything is designed for people to be on absolutely every dayYou mean A Game Developer would Actually Design a System around the players That Actually Get on and Play the game? Developers Design Towards PLAYERS. Not Weekend Warriors. , like a damn job... you get on grind, set that days tasks going with the hope that by the end of the week your fleet might've scrapped enough together (this is particularly true of Duty Officer requirements as you can't simply BUY White (Common) officers like you can Green (Uncommon) NNOOOOO you have to sent away for a 2 Day recruitment thing or buy via Doff Packs) to complete 3 projects. Apparently You have a Starbase and have never Been in it. I have Fed the starbase With the Fleet Credits it gives me Buy using the Personell Manager ON THE STARBASE to give me White up to currently BLUE Doffs For the cost of FLEET CREDITS. No Wait.. Instantly Given.
Everyone says "well just go on your other characters and grind on them too", but when you MUST use Alts daily (which is EXTRA grinding) just to afford projects ... there is a point where you have to seriously ask yourself.
IS THIS WORTH IT?! Is it worth Actually PLAYING a game YES. You sir are in the WRONG Game Style. ALL MMO's Are like This. This one lets you get VA in 3-4 days of play. Then you actually Have to Do other stuff for the Projects. Others you grind For weeks to months To max your Character out Ontop of doing Guild Activities, Raids, Wars, or Territory Construction and re-enforcement. If you think this Game is a GRIND.. I laugh hysterically At you and Recommend you Buy a Console. It is Built to those who need Quick Emotional Reinforcment and achievements.
The strong resounding answer that I personally hear back is, NO.
There is no damn point in any of this Starbase or Embassy TRIBBLE.
I could invite non-fleet to them ... oh wow, I can do that with my damn cookie cutter bridge as well. Don't see the bloody point there either.
Could they be used in PvP? Well what's the point there, the game is so in-balanced in how it is designed that PvP is a waste of bloody time unless you've already got the top most gear available ... it isn't like EVE when people won't use a module cause they can lose it so everyone always uses the best damn equippment possible - which if you can't often not possible without mindless grinding them it ends up a slaughter. Umm.. I am not sure if you actually Have ever Played Eve.. But.. You use the Best Gear you can Afford to Lose or the Best gear when it comes to Protecting the System from Take over. Maybe You were a Hi-Sec Warrior I don't Know. But when Your Defending Sov You Lose alot of ISK to Support the Greater Good.. Your Alliances Territory
So then perhaps PvE? Well no cause that is also frankly the most inbalanced thing that doesn't properly scale with levels because abilities frankly are OP in many cases; especially in the hands of the NPCs who tend to have 3-4 abilities that it can use at one time = Instant Pop for your Starship, regardless of how awesome the kit on-board makes it. NPC's Are absolutely Horrible in this Game and basic MMO skills will easily Overtake all That are in the game. Only Issue is the occasional One hit Gate or Tac cube Kill. Otherwise This is Kindergarten NPC's. you Mentioned EVE.. Again.. If you played it.. The AI in this Game is Laughable Compared to Sleeper A.I. Or Null Ratting.
This often can happen so quickly you don't even SEE the graphics appear for what the hell just apparently hit you. So from your perspective you're alright, tanking the small arms fire then suddenly goodbye 60,000 eHP
Seriously, there is no cause & effect either. I mean I have nothing to fear just flying about, no need to worry about my ship being destroyed... the worse case scenario from failing a mission is a 20hr cooldown, even then it's only specific daily missions.
Honestly, we grind so we can grind some more just so we can grind some more.
Then let's say we do finally grind ourselves the damn damn few missions until we reach Tier 5 Starbases - well what then? You have the requisition stuff (that everything useful costs dilithium, Zen and time) so you've got to grind or actually pay just so you can well get back to grinding again cause you can "finally play the game" ... just to realise as was the case when the game was release THERE IS NOTHING MORE!
You know what I like about EVE, sure someone can blow up my StarbasePOS.. If your a serious EVE player; but there - doesn't matter if you have 200 members, or 5 members. Creating a Starbase Again you must be Talking about a POS.. Because You need to hold Sov in certain systems to have the Starbase.isn't a monumental undertaking5 players are not Holding SOV to hold Control of a starbase In Null... there is no grinding involved to achieve it Mining Arknor In Null Is Grinding.. Mining any ORE is Grinding, Industrial Uses you Grind for ORE then to make Supers Your Grinding to manufacture and time Gated based on your characters over all indy Skills For producing plates or whatever else you need. You also need a Decent Ship or Cloaked Hauler for half the Expensive Materials Since the ORCA nerf.(unless you want to grind)DED sites is Grinding, Level 4's or if you have access Level 5's Are Grinding in order to get the shiny ship you want. You spend MONTHS training To get into a Capital And over a year of Dedicated Training For a Titan Cap. The Average Level 5 Skill that counts is 30 days of WAIT before you can advance to the next Ship Style... Order Of getting Into Your Soon to be Captial...(New Training Tree coming to us In retribution with the Tiericide occuring) Frigate 5-> Destroyer 5 -> Cruiser 5 -> Battle Cruiser 5 -> Battleship 4 -> Capital ship finally. Current Skill Trains are 80+ Days and that is NOT having proper Skills To fit and Fly that is just into the ship.. And this is at Current before the New (longer) skill train kicks in. So while You do not have the Direct Equipment Dilithium Etc. You STILL have a Grind to Get ISK.. Or you can Pay 19.99 for a Plex.<~ item mall basically. Now That just Lets you FLY the ship. Lets Talk About Weapon Trains, Module Trains, Implant Sets, Getting into an Alliance To build you that Capital Ship.. Or Grinding to get Isk to Pay the Few billion for a Decent Fit Capital. But What if you don't want to get a Capital.. Capitals are for the ubber Rich Blobbers.. T3 Decent Fit.. 3 bil. Still Training for that and Now with the New Retribution changes you can't Eject from it if you are about to die. So Those TIME GATED ( yes Gated meaning not instant unlock) Skills that you waited to earn Now can be Lost. Clones Don't matter, Death in a t3 Causes SP Loss. and what you have at the end provides you with the means for additional income without having to deal with NPC Taxes or other Corporation/Alliances to make it happen.
It is one of the biggest expressions (aside from other things) in the game about your Corporation being Self-Reliant.
With STO, do you know the difference between a Tier 3 - Level 10 Fleet and a Tier 0 one?
E-peen waggling and the fact one clearly has nothing better to do. It means nothing except to those who have done it. You are an Eve Player - The Entire Game is Built Against having the Bigger E-Peen.
Frankly the way I see it all of these Level 50 "expansions to gameplay after max rank" stuff like Omega, Romulan, Starbase, Embassy and Crafting. All it is are ways for Cryptic/PWE to make more money because they're hoping that if the grind it too much people will pay so it goes quicker. No doubt it is working otherwise it would've been changed.
If you ask me though, this Free-to-Play Nickle'n'Dime TRIBBLE just pisses me off. They want more people to play the game, make it good, make it fun and most importantly MAKE IT WORTH A SUBSCRIPTION.
In Eve If your Not Grinding For ISK, Your Plexxing For ISK.. While PAYING for a Sub, Unless you are like me and bringing in enough ISK to pay for plexxes For Multiple Accounts. One Does not simple Get anywhere In Eve With One Account. If you are Not Specialized In Eve.. You are a FAIL Pilot. PVP/Indy Hybrids Will Never get anywhere That counts In Eve. Nor will they Be able to either keep up with Pure Indy's Or Pure PVP's. From What you have Stated Tho I am guessing You are a Hi-Sec Carebear who has not really Branched out into more Indepth areas of Eve Online. I Fully Believe you have not Scratched the surface Of the Most Indepth Mentally challenging and Skill requiring Game. I am going to most Likely Guess a Caldari Player so you do not have to Deal with Transversal Maths Or maintaing Optimal Ranges or learning how to properly Tank a Vessel.
Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
Well what about implementing an optional Button which allows to limit the number of Fleet Members and scale the needed contributions for projects accordingly. To minimize exploitation of this the choice on how many members the fleet could have would be permanent ( or only changeable for an enormous amount of Dilithium or even better Zen ).
Small fleets are NOT supposed to be flying threw projects. This was by design and stated in multiple Q&A's before the launch of season 6. The problem with the small fleets and i had the same issue in my head was that we are trying to keep pace with the big boys. The starbases were not designed that way. A solid group of 50 active players dedicated towards starbase construction was supposed to average 7 months till tier 5. Smaller fleets were supposed to average a YEAR AND A HALF to TWO YEARS to hit tier 5. This was again by design stated by cryptic devs and DStahl. This information has been blatantly out there. Small fleets need to CALM DOWN and STOP trying to keep pace with the big boys out there. We are not supposed to be able to keep up with them. If you are a fleet of 3-5 players, you are not really a fleet.. Your a squad. Blatant truth. Fleets are large groups of people. Sorry if this stings a little. Cryptic has been changing requirements and drop rates to keep with this time frame for fleets. You read the changes in the patch notes as they come out. Alot of us smaller fleets are way above schedule. I know some small fleets unwrapping the shiny tier 4 starbases. Same pace as the big boys. It's called dedication and HARD WORK I know the work thing is a bad thing to state in games, but if all games were simple, quick and easy alot of us would be looking for a challenge somewhere else.
those estimates were before they reduced the amount of dilithium that can be earned quickly in the game and before they added the embassy and before they added the reputation system. those all suck down dilithium like no tomorrow as well leaving smaller fleets in even worse of a situation the larger fleets.
I saw this happening as soon as they annouced fleet starbases were in the works. Fleet starbases and Cryptic won't admit this, but fleet starbases were designed in part to elimate smaller fleets and it is happening.
Small Fleets are disbanding, I have had a few friends fleet say their starbases have come to a complete stop and their a larger small fleet. The progression thru the system is kiling the small fleets and I really doubt Cryptic will do anything about it.
Fleet Marks and Dilithium is what you're going to need in the higher tiers and Cryptic isn't going to give out more Dilithium, as you can see by them fixing the Foundry Mission exploit.
My tiny fleet is still limping along, despite there only being two of us left now. Used to be maybe 6-8 of us, but everyone else bailed to join larger fleets. Then I was humming along at a decent pace until they killed the foundry "exploit." Now it's slowed to a crawl, but I've put too much effort into this POS to abandon it now.
The Reputation system isn't helping much, costing a lot in ECs to complete those systems which takes away users supporting their fleetbases. Smaller fleets will be disbanding a lot faster soon, because the Mk XII elite gear is about to be unlocked by a lot of the larger fleets.
those estimates were before they reduced the amount of dilithium that can be earned quickly in the game and before they added the embassy and before they added the reputation system. those all suck down dilithium like no tomorrow as well leaving smaller fleets in even worse of a situation the larger fleets.
Please Play the Game Sir.. I earn More dilithium NOW in a shorter amount of time then ever Before. You might not like STF's But an Low end reward from an Elite STF gives 960 Dilithium + Omega Marks ( I am drowning in these with each and every stf done) Take the 960 dil + Convert the 50 Omega marks = 1460 marks.. thats 20 more then Before... If you get an above Average Win you get 6 Neuro Processors... 5 of them Give 1k dil.. thats now.. 2460.. If you get the Ubber Drop you can refine up to 100 Omarks Giving you 1000 Dil.. Plus you get 11 BNP's 10 of them give you 2000 Dil... So thats 3960 Dilithium Coming out of a 15 minute match if you have friends who know what they are doing. So.. 30 minutes You can near MAX your Refinement Per Character. How is this Longer? They reduced the QUICK Exploit Ways of Getting dilithium.. And Buffed it in other Areas to make up for it.
PLAY THE GAME and the GAME works for you.
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The Reputation system isn't helping much, costing a lot in ECs to complete those systems which takes away users supporting their fleetbases. Smaller fleets will be disbanding a lot faster soon, because the Mk XII elite gear is about to be unlocked by a lot of the larger fleets.
Then your Problems Isn't the Reputation system. The Problems Is you have not Found a Group of players That Want to Stick Together. You have a group of players instead of wanting to say They Earned Something they watch to ditch your fleet and take the quick way out. The problem Isn't The Small Fleets. The problem is your Lack of Loyalty in your friend Base. There Are small Fleet owners With the Loyal Groups of Friends.. Friends being Players That Stick with you from the start. Not just Buddies you met to play a match with. But Actual Friends Made. Those Are the small Fleets Doing it Right. If you can't Maintain your member base It's because you are finding the Wrong Group of players. You are Finding PUGS
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The problem is that "sticking with your friends" means remaining in a tiny fleet for a lot of us. Forcing that category of player to choose between friends and access to all game rewards is not encouraging the "social" aspect of an MMO.
And again, nobody is advocating that ignorant little "you want stuff for free, without having to earn it" falsehood. I want it to be reasonably attainable for me, as a paying customer, playing the way I choose to pay. Less grind, not the complete absence of grind.
I want it to be reasonably attainable for me, as a paying customer, playing the way I choose to pay.
Such a thing never happens in MMO's. You either do what's needed to get the reward you want, or you do without it. What you want is for the rules to be changed, without much of a valid argument for why things should be changed to cater to you.
Lets face it, 50 more fleet marks per day is going to have a fairly large impact on how things work. If you have a fleet of 50 people each scoring a quick 50 marks, that's 2,500 marks per day. That's a pretty big influx of marks into a larger fleet.
Also a big flaw in your logic, is that somehow it's unfair that smaller fleets are having issues getting past T3. As if you were being denied critical gear or something because you can't get to T5.
I still think one thing that would majorly help is having the option to cancel a project and the resources that were put in that project go into the fleet bank.
Like many other fleets I had members jump ship for a larger fleet or leave the game completely over the excessive amount of grinding that seasons 6 and 7 brought into the game.
Personally I agree that it is still possible to gain all the resources pretty easily if you do it right, but there are projects that were started because now absent members wanted certain provisions and high resource projects done.
Right now with the fleet base alone there is over 580,000 dilithium needed to clear the current projects, and 200,000 of that is from projects no longer wanted.
However, the problem with an idea like this is that it would lead to a possible exploit of fleets starting projects, contributing, and then canceling to restart it to gain more fleet credits. This is why I suggested that when you cancel a project the resources go into the fleet bank because then they could be registered by the game as being from a canceled project and not reward more fleet credits upon contributing them.
4 guys bringing materials and working on it will probably take at least a week, maybe several for a large barn.
But a small army of people? 40 or so people with proper coordination can erect a barn in a single day.
The same sort of thing applies to fleets. A huge fleet can fill any project no matter how large in a day. Small fleets might take weeks to do a single major upgrade.
The foundry (officer dailies) is the whole reason why we are in this mess.
The officer dailies (doesn't matter if you were for or against them) and the quickies allowed small fleets and solo players to entertain having a tier 3 base without a massive amount of effort beyond it taking a while.
The fact that Crypric/PWE ignored the quickies for months has forced people into the position where they either have to "give up" on their small base after investing massive amounts of resources, or slog on with the building going at a snails pace.
Cryptic/PWE needs to accept that by ignoring the "exploit" they have created this whole mess.
Either reinstate something that generates FM's like the quickies of old, or allow a way for people to liquidate their current base and share out the proceeds with fleet members.
4 guys bringing materials and working on it will probably take at least a week, maybe several for a large barn.
But a small army of people? 40 or so people with proper coordination can erect a barn in a single day.
The same sort of thing applies to fleets. A huge fleet can fill any project no matter how large in a day. Small fleets might take weeks to do a single major upgrade.
That's the problem with video games in general these days thou. People want everything and they want it like yesterday. There's no pride in accomplishment anymore, just "This is too hard" or "This is taking to long".
I had 8 characters all level 50, got bored so deleted all but 1 and decided to condense down to just 3 for now (1 of each career) my sci is still level 1, and the other two are at 50 or at 47/48. My Eng is 50 and I've already got a good start at the rep system going, so I've been focusing at leveling and the fleet with my Tac. Once I get a good way through the rep on my Eng then I'm going to shift and have my Tac working on the rep system and my Eng on the fleet. This way I'm still progressing for the rep system and my fleet, the Deferi would be so proud of the balance. lol
So what if my fleet progress will be a little slower, it's still progress and every milestone with it will be that much more satisfying. If the few fleet members I have left decide to do the same then fine, if not that's okay too.
"It's not the size that matters, but how you use it" lol
That's the problem with video games in general these days thou. People want everything and they want it like yesterday. There's no pride in accomplishment anymore, just "This is too hard" or "This is taking to long".
I had 8 characters all level 50, got bored so deleted all but 1 and decided to condense down to just 3 for now (1 of each career) my sci is still level 1, and the other two are at 50 or at 47/48. My Eng is 50 and I've already got a good start at the rep system going, so I've been focusing at leveling and the fleet with my Tac. Once I get a good way through the rep on my Eng then I'm going to shift and have my Tac working on the rep system and my Eng on the fleet. This way I'm still progressing for the rep system and my fleet, the Deferi would be so proud of the balance. lol
So what if my fleet progress will be a little slower, it's still progress and every milestone with it will be that much more satisfying. If the few fleet members I have left decide to do the same then fine, if not that's okay too.
"It's not the size that matters, but how you use it" lol
That was probably a bad move. I get a lot of FM from having alts file commendation reports.
The foundry (officer dailies) is the whole reason why we are in this mess.
The officer dailies (doesn't matter if you were for or against them) and the quickies allowed small fleets and solo players to entertain having a tier 3 base without a massive amount of effort beyond it taking a while.
The fact that Crypric/PWE ignored the quickies for months has forced people into the position where they either have to "give up" on their small base after investing massive amounts of resources, or slog on with the building going at a snails pace.
Cryptic/PWE needs to accept that by ignoring the "exploit" they have created this whole mess.
Either reinstate something that generates FM's like the quickies of old, or allow a way for people to liquidate their current base and share out the proceeds with fleet members.
Cryptic Did the right thing. They Killed Off the Single to 3 player Fleets. Fleets were meant to be 5+ People. Alot of people Created the Starbases For the sheer use of having a TRIBBLE load of Extra Storage without having to pay Zen for it. As well as being Able to have more then 10 mil EC. This Hurts THEM the Most and on a Personal Level that I rarely touch. It should.
Cryptic Stated this is a LONG TERM GOAL. Everyone IS Complaining Things are Taking so long Because They want it NOW not Later. Fleets Are Progressing According to the time tables of Players They Put Forth. That is the Bottom Line. The StarBases Are PRogressing At the Pace Stated they would even with the changes they made. Everyone got a HUGE boost in the starbases in the beginning with the Nakura Runs when it came out. Hell I pulled near 900 Fleet Marks in the Event alone. This gave us NICE Buffs. It got killed Because it had to be. It allowed Players To get ahead Real quick and ahead of the time line.
Officer Reports have been getting Complained about for a long time. It is there for players to go out and Explore Foundry Content built by the Player Base. Foundry authors Were getting Screwed big time because all players did was chase the 3 missions for a one click console which completeled Every Report at once.
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Comments
It's very sad that you apparently think this is a desirable and proper way for things to be. In my world, forcing players to choose between friends and gameplay rewards is how you frustrate and alienate them.
This depends, of course, on whether or not any of those larger fleets will take you and your alts, you who might be a newbie, or a random stranger that they can't tell from a bank looter, or someone they just can't fit in because of the 500 person limit.
*Junior Tactical Officer* But sir the cube IS right in front of us.
*Me* EXACTLY! Its right in front of us and you still missed it! Just step away from the console.
http://betanews.com/2012/12/06/microtransactions-are-not-the-american-way-says-new-data/
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Ha! No my fleet is dead. One followed me to GW2. The others scattered to the winds and are not playing STO.
This is one of the key issues at fault there though, is it not?
Not meaning the fact that the Starbases are perfectly secure, but more it does mean something.
As the Fleet Starbase is capable of providing all of the same perks you get from the Major Starbases without the latency... not to mention the "Fleet Gear", most of which is simply better versions of what require normal drops.
What frankly pisses me off about STO is the sheer amount of mindless grind you have to do to earn anything. It isn't as if on my weekends off I can simply grind out all the Dilithium, Duty Officers, etc... that are required for projects, not to mention I have to rely heavily upon the Exchange (which desperately needs to be improved) for the majority of my Energy Credit income - so even that is hit'n'miss.
No instead everything is designed for people to be on absolutely every day, like a damn job... you get on grind, set that days tasks going with the hope that by the end of the week your fleet might've scrapped enough together (this is particularly true of Duty Officer requirements as you can't simply BUY White (Common) officers like you can Green (Uncommon) NNOOOOO you have to sent away for a 2 Day recruitment thing or buy via Doff Packs) to complete 3 projects.
Everyone says "well just go on your other characters and grind on them too", but when you MUST use Alts daily (which is EXTRA grinding) just to afford projects ... there is a point where you have to seriously ask yourself.
IS THIS WORTH IT?!
The strong resounding answer that I personally hear back is, NO.
There is no damn point in any of this Starbase or Embassy TRIBBLE.
I could invite non-fleet to them ... oh wow, I can do that with my damn cookie cutter bridge as well. Don't see the bloody point there either.
Could they be used in PvP? Well what's the point there, the game is so in-balanced in how it is designed that PvP is a waste of bloody time unless you've already got the top most gear available ... it isn't like EVE when people won't use a module cause they can lose it so everyone always uses the best damn equippment possible - which if you can't often not possible without mindless grinding them it ends up a slaughter.
So then perhaps PvE? Well no cause that is also frankly the most inbalanced thing that doesn't properly scale with levels because abilities frankly are OP in many cases; especially in the hands of the NPCs who tend to have 3-4 abilities that it can use at one time = Instant Pop for your Starship, regardless of how awesome the kit on-board makes it.
This often can happen so quickly you don't even SEE the graphics appear for what the hell just apparently hit you. So from your perspective you're alright, tanking the small arms fire then suddenly goodbye 60,000 eHP
Seriously, there is no cause & effect either. I mean I have nothing to fear just flying about, no need to worry about my ship being destroyed... the worse case scenario from failing a mission is a 20hr cooldown, even then it's only specific daily missions.
Honestly, we grind so we can grind some more just so we can grind some more.
Then let's say we do finally grind ourselves the damn damn few missions until we reach Tier 5 Starbases - well what then? You have the requisition stuff (that everything useful costs dilithium, Zen and time) so you've got to grind or actually pay just so you can well get back to grinding again cause you can "finally play the game" ... just to realise as was the case when the game was release THERE IS NOTHING MORE!
You know what I like about EVE, sure someone can blow up my Starbase; but there - doesn't matter if you have 200 members, or 5 members. Creating a Starbase isn't a monumental undertaking... there is no grinding involved to achieve it (unless you want to grind) and what you have at the end provides you with the means for additional income without having to deal with NPC Taxes or other Corporation/Alliances to make it happen.
It is one of the biggest expressions (aside from other things) in the game about your Corporation being Self-Reliant.
With STO, do you know the difference between a Tier 3 - Level 10 Fleet and a Tier 0 one?
E-peen waggling and the fact one clearly has nothing better to do. It means nothing except to those who have done it.
Frankly the way I see it all of these Level 50 "expansions to gameplay after max rank" stuff like Omega, Romulan, Starbase, Embassy and Crafting. All it is are ways for Cryptic/PWE to make more money because they're hoping that if the grind it too much people will pay so it goes quicker. No doubt it is working otherwise it would've been changed.
If you ask me though, this Free-to-Play Nickle'n'Dime TRIBBLE just pisses me off. They want more people to play the game, make it good, make it fun and most importantly MAKE IT WORTH A SUBSCRIPTION.
For one I think the the dailies at the fleet and embassy need to be increased not to 25/50 but more like 10 marks
What I think needs to be added is a few more DoFF missions that reward only fleet marks. Ones were you send out members of your crew into outlining area to promote and foster relationships for your fleet. I know there are ones already, use them as the bench mark, give how much is needed to start them and what you get. I'm not talking about two hour mission for one DoFF, more like a 36/72 hour mission for 10/20 DoFFs.
One idea is an old one from a old cryptic game, city of heroes. There prestige system could be use a base. Trade 25% expertise earned form doing missions not dailies, DoFF or STFs into 1% turned in to fleet marks. This will keep the value of your station and embassy without offsetting the need to help smaller fleets. Also cryptic would add a daily cap on marks earned.
Lastly for cryptic to just sell fleet marks in the C store, one can already buy dilithium why not fleet marks, reputation marks and energy credits
Not at all, I myself have turned down offers to join larger fleets with more advanced starbases on a regular basis because I like the fleet I am in. I also recognize that progression will be slower and accept that as a fair trade off for avoiding large fleet drama. As to point two, I agree 100% with reduction across the board of starbase grind cost. In Particular the dilthium cost seem way too high. (of course with those needy Romulans and Omega Forces management gobbling up all my commodities, EC is almost becoming a larger problem)
I am not ADVISING anyone to join a big fleet. I was the leader of a HUGE Territory War Guild in PWI for over two years and wouldn't do it again if you paid me well. I also do not expect for the mid-sized fleet I am part of to compete with large fleets in starbase progression. I have a CHOICE in the matter and I CHOOSE the smaller fleet because I enjoy the atmosphere more.
Again, small fleet = slower progression but less drama. Large fleet = faster progression but more drama. When I was a TW Guild Leader in PWI I would see tiny guild complain they couldn't compete in TW against larger guild and call for things like making the battle 20 -v- 20 instead of 80 -v- 80 to give them a chance. They had no idea how much work actually goes in to leading a large guild/fleet. I myself ended up leaving PWI completely and am now enjoying my STO experience as a member of a medium sized fleet that has no drama whatsoever. Starbase rewards are not GAMEPLAY rewards, unless you consider the dumping of commodities into a mini-game interface to be gameplay, which I do not. Again I agree 100% with hanover that the overall cost of projects is too high. I do however, think that the leaders of the large fleets that work their butts off to keep the fleet togetehr and running deserve to see the members of that fleet rewarded with ITEMS that represent a fair reward for the effort involved.
I have even turned down offers to TEMPORARILY join a large fleet just to purchase items I can't get in my current starbase, because I love my smaller fleet so much, I wouldn't want to have a different fleet name over my head even for the time needed to purchase the items I want. My perspective IS from someone in a smaller fleet. I like my smaller fleet. I do not think we deserve to get top tier rewards as easily as much larger harder to manage fleets.
On my KDF toon I just joined a new fleet that is led by one of my favorite in-game friends. He knows me well in game, and we regularly fly together in PvP. Even though he knows I am a good person and will be a valued member of the fleet, I am still required to serve the same waiting period before being allowed purchasing/bank permissions as everyone else. The mechanic (just described) to prevent bank raiders is already in game as you can see. The fleet member is also protected from shenanigans because your fleet credit is bound to you and transfers with you when you change fleets.
As to the rest of your point, which is very valid. I am not suggesting that mini fleets struggling with starbase progression all disband and run off to mega fleets. What I am saying is that there are plenty of medium sized fleets that would be more than happy to add five or ten members from a mini fleet, and that the atmosphere in those fleets will be the same. Unless of course you DO NOT want new friends and players to team with. In that case, stay in a mini fleet and enjoy it. Just don't expect the game to allow you to have a T5 Starbase as the same rate as the mega fleet.
To compare it to another aspect of the game. Elite STFs give much greater rewards than normal. They are also harder to do, and more likely to have something go wrong. Does anyone think that doing Infected Space on the normal setting should give the same reward as Elite Setting? ((I say this as someone who, having already done the grind to unlock elite commander on both my toons, now finds myself sadly "unretired" from STF in order to unlock the passive skills and that (drools a little) Adapted MACO Rifle. Since I already have all the accolades for STF, should I get to just talk to Admiral D'Vak and deliver his laundry once a day and get my T5 Rep just as fast as the person who is starting from scratch and running STFs like crazy? While that would be nice for me, it would not be fair to everyone else.
On a final note. If I were to design a game, the whole system of rewards and progression would not even remotely resemble the MMO mold we are used to. All "endgame" rewards would be from completing scenarios successfully ONE TIME and all scenarios would be extremely difficult to complete successfully. I am however, not the designer of STO, and so I will play within the systems that exist, offer my suggestions for improvement when given a chance to do so, and enjoy the game for what it is. My fleet will see out T5 Shipyard in about twice the time it will take a megafleet, and I will smile and buy my Fleet Armitage, knowing I helped make it possible.
A daily that takes ~30 mins to complete and offers 50 fleet marks wouldn't rock the boat too much. I just don't have the time or patience to do 3 "full-sized" foundry missions for fleet marks.
Have you seen some of the things on foundry that end up getting 4 or 5 stars? Digital novels that take 3 hours or more to read. If I was forced to do that I would kill myself by repeatedly bashing my face into my keyboard.
Your point well taken, but starbase rewards are specifically reward for GROUPS of people working together. Larger groups are able to generate more resources, but require more work to maintain. Therefore better rewards. The starbase rewards are rewards for being ina fleet specifically. Therefore, larger fleet = larger (faster) rewards potential. It's a choice you have to make. Once again, I personally choose to NOT be in a larger fleet and get my rewards a little slower, but enjoy the ride a lot more. The game does not require you to make the same choice. The only thing preventing you from being in a larger fleet and getting rewarded faster is yourself and the choices you make.
Colony invasion takes 15 minutes tops if you bork it the whole way and gives @20 marks. Same with Fleet Alert. Do them during rep event and you have your 50 marks in thirty minutes. Cooldown is 30 minutes so you could literally cycle those two Fleet Mark missions endlessly. I have done exactly that in order to help complete a project. What we need is MORE Fleet Mark missions, MORE STF mission and MORE Romulan Rep Missions so we can have more variety. We don't need quickies.
Myself, since I find repetitive grind to be the worst part of MMO gameplay, I would prefer that they make a few missions that are longer, more complicated, and with multiple possible paths and outcomes that offer bigger rewards. I would rather take part in an EPIC two hour long Fleet Mission that gave a 200 mark reward, than do 8 fifteen minute missions in a repeating cycle for the same marks.
The foundry issue is another issue entirely. I agree 100% that the reward is bleh for the Investigate Daily. I would rather the reward be structured so that the author would be given a choice of an item reward to assign to the mission. (reward value could be tied to number of objectives) and then award dilthium and YOUR CHOICE of marks on a per mission basis. This would allow foundry authors like myself to tie an interesting (and theme related) item reward to our missions, encouraging people to play them.
Wouldn't it be awesome if I could offer a MK XI Purple Anti Borg Rifle for beating my Borg Mission? Add to that 15 Marks and 480 Dilithium and it's a perfect reward structure for the foundry. I bet I would get more tips as well! LOL
In Eve If your Not Grinding For ISK, Your Plexxing For ISK.. While PAYING for a Sub, Unless you are like me and bringing in enough ISK to pay for plexxes For Multiple Accounts. One Does not simple Get anywhere In Eve With One Account. If you are Not Specialized In Eve.. You are a FAIL Pilot. PVP/Indy Hybrids Will Never get anywhere That counts In Eve. Nor will they Be able to either keep up with Pure Indy's Or Pure PVP's. From What you have Stated Tho I am guessing You are a Hi-Sec Carebear who has not really Branched out into more Indepth areas of Eve Online. I Fully Believe you have not Scratched the surface Of the Most Indepth Mentally challenging and Skill requiring Game. I am going to most Likely Guess a Caldari Player so you do not have to Deal with Transversal Maths Or maintaing Optimal Ranges or learning how to properly Tank a Vessel.
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What do you think about this approach ?
Greetings Battery
those estimates were before they reduced the amount of dilithium that can be earned quickly in the game and before they added the embassy and before they added the reputation system. those all suck down dilithium like no tomorrow as well leaving smaller fleets in even worse of a situation the larger fleets.
Do you even Science Bro?
Small Fleets are disbanding, I have had a few friends fleet say their starbases have come to a complete stop and their a larger small fleet. The progression thru the system is kiling the small fleets and I really doubt Cryptic will do anything about it.
Fleet Marks and Dilithium is what you're going to need in the higher tiers and Cryptic isn't going to give out more Dilithium, as you can see by them fixing the Foundry Mission exploit.
Please Play the Game Sir.. I earn More dilithium NOW in a shorter amount of time then ever Before. You might not like STF's But an Low end reward from an Elite STF gives 960 Dilithium + Omega Marks ( I am drowning in these with each and every stf done) Take the 960 dil + Convert the 50 Omega marks = 1460 marks.. thats 20 more then Before... If you get an above Average Win you get 6 Neuro Processors... 5 of them Give 1k dil.. thats now.. 2460.. If you get the Ubber Drop you can refine up to 100 Omarks Giving you 1000 Dil.. Plus you get 11 BNP's 10 of them give you 2000 Dil... So thats 3960 Dilithium Coming out of a 15 minute match if you have friends who know what they are doing. So.. 30 minutes You can near MAX your Refinement Per Character. How is this Longer? They reduced the QUICK Exploit Ways of Getting dilithium.. And Buffed it in other Areas to make up for it.
PLAY THE GAME and the GAME works for you.
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Then your Problems Isn't the Reputation system. The Problems Is you have not Found a Group of players That Want to Stick Together. You have a group of players instead of wanting to say They Earned Something they watch to ditch your fleet and take the quick way out. The problem Isn't The Small Fleets. The problem is your Lack of Loyalty in your friend Base. There Are small Fleet owners With the Loyal Groups of Friends.. Friends being Players That Stick with you from the start. Not just Buddies you met to play a match with. But Actual Friends Made. Those Are the small Fleets Doing it Right. If you can't Maintain your member base It's because you are finding the Wrong Group of players. You are Finding PUGS
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And again, nobody is advocating that ignorant little "you want stuff for free, without having to earn it" falsehood. I want it to be reasonably attainable for me, as a paying customer, playing the way I choose to pay. Less grind, not the complete absence of grind.
Such a thing never happens in MMO's. You either do what's needed to get the reward you want, or you do without it. What you want is for the rules to be changed, without much of a valid argument for why things should be changed to cater to you.
Lets face it, 50 more fleet marks per day is going to have a fairly large impact on how things work. If you have a fleet of 50 people each scoring a quick 50 marks, that's 2,500 marks per day. That's a pretty big influx of marks into a larger fleet.
Also a big flaw in your logic, is that somehow it's unfair that smaller fleets are having issues getting past T3. As if you were being denied critical gear or something because you can't get to T5.
Like many other fleets I had members jump ship for a larger fleet or leave the game completely over the excessive amount of grinding that seasons 6 and 7 brought into the game.
Personally I agree that it is still possible to gain all the resources pretty easily if you do it right, but there are projects that were started because now absent members wanted certain provisions and high resource projects done.
Right now with the fleet base alone there is over 580,000 dilithium needed to clear the current projects, and 200,000 of that is from projects no longer wanted.
However, the problem with an idea like this is that it would lead to a possible exploit of fleets starting projects, contributing, and then canceling to restart it to gain more fleet credits. This is why I suggested that when you cancel a project the resources go into the fleet bank because then they could be registered by the game as being from a canceled project and not reward more fleet credits upon contributing them.
4 guys bringing materials and working on it will probably take at least a week, maybe several for a large barn.
But a small army of people? 40 or so people with proper coordination can erect a barn in a single day.
The same sort of thing applies to fleets. A huge fleet can fill any project no matter how large in a day. Small fleets might take weeks to do a single major upgrade.
My character Tsin'xing
The officer dailies (doesn't matter if you were for or against them) and the quickies allowed small fleets and solo players to entertain having a tier 3 base without a massive amount of effort beyond it taking a while.
The fact that Crypric/PWE ignored the quickies for months has forced people into the position where they either have to "give up" on their small base after investing massive amounts of resources, or slog on with the building going at a snails pace.
Cryptic/PWE needs to accept that by ignoring the "exploit" they have created this whole mess.
Either reinstate something that generates FM's like the quickies of old, or allow a way for people to liquidate their current base and share out the proceeds with fleet members.
That's the problem with video games in general these days thou. People want everything and they want it like yesterday. There's no pride in accomplishment anymore, just "This is too hard" or "This is taking to long".
I had 8 characters all level 50, got bored so deleted all but 1 and decided to condense down to just 3 for now (1 of each career) my sci is still level 1, and the other two are at 50 or at 47/48. My Eng is 50 and I've already got a good start at the rep system going, so I've been focusing at leveling and the fleet with my Tac. Once I get a good way through the rep on my Eng then I'm going to shift and have my Tac working on the rep system and my Eng on the fleet. This way I'm still progressing for the rep system and my fleet, the Deferi would be so proud of the balance. lol
So what if my fleet progress will be a little slower, it's still progress and every milestone with it will be that much more satisfying. If the few fleet members I have left decide to do the same then fine, if not that's okay too.
"It's not the size that matters, but how you use it" lol
My character Tsin'xing
Cryptic Did the right thing. They Killed Off the Single to 3 player Fleets. Fleets were meant to be 5+ People. Alot of people Created the Starbases For the sheer use of having a TRIBBLE load of Extra Storage without having to pay Zen for it. As well as being Able to have more then 10 mil EC. This Hurts THEM the Most and on a Personal Level that I rarely touch. It should.
Cryptic Stated this is a LONG TERM GOAL. Everyone IS Complaining Things are Taking so long Because They want it NOW not Later. Fleets Are Progressing According to the time tables of Players They Put Forth. That is the Bottom Line. The StarBases Are PRogressing At the Pace Stated they would even with the changes they made. Everyone got a HUGE boost in the starbases in the beginning with the Nakura Runs when it came out. Hell I pulled near 900 Fleet Marks in the Event alone. This gave us NICE Buffs. It got killed Because it had to be. It allowed Players To get ahead Real quick and ahead of the time line.
Officer Reports have been getting Complained about for a long time. It is there for players to go out and Explore Foundry Content built by the Player Base. Foundry authors Were getting Screwed big time because all players did was chase the 3 missions for a one click console which completeled Every Report at once.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]