Actually no, again this is coming from someone who pushed two small fleets. If you are 10 people building a Military Base, Would you be able to build it as quick as say 100-200 people? No, you would not. Sure you will put in more effort to get it done, but you would still not have the material gathering nor the manpower to be as efficient time wise as a larger group constructing it. This is how the Starbases are designed. The factor that you do not or can not grow your fleet, or grind as hard to get the same materials for your base does not mean you should be on the same playing field as a group that is. There would be no incentive for people to Grow there fleets if they wanted to in this case. Just the same as sadly, if your are in a smaller fleet many people will not see the incentive to be in one. But the closer personal relationship you have with your player base would be why people like the smaller fleet Size. There Stay small and family like mindset should not Cripple the Industrious fleets out there. If they are able to maintain fleet size and keep fleet politics together that things are getting accomplished, people feel they are being treated fairly and like they way things are going, they should not be put onto the same field as a small fleet.
This is not Biased against small Fleets, It's simple Common sense, More manpower = More things get done. This is a realistic Concept in life. Five people can't build a village in the same time frame Fifty people Can. Same with the Bases.
This is exactly why a smaller base for smaller fleets and a larger one with more options for a larger fleet makes perfect sense. Hell the basic layout of the Utopia Plainitia Shipyard map with a comms building added to the left and a shuttle/ship bay to the left and everything else in between....small, functional what more do you need??
Personally I agree that smaller fleets should be able to do it as fast or in the case of my idea have all these options for customizing the base, but at the same time our progress as smaller fleets shouldn't be bottle necked as much or completely stalled, just because we don't want to abandon all our hard work up to whatever point we're at just to join a large fleet.
Maybe what we really need if two different sized bases isn't the solution is some type of in-game fleet recruitment board near the fleet ambassador. I don't mean he list of fleets that we have now, but the fleet owner or second in charge can only give a brief description of the fleet with who to contact for more information. These messages should only stay active for 2 weeks or maybe a month before they are automatically removed and have to be reposted. it would cut down on fleet recruitment in zone chat and hopefully the mega monster fleets that don't care about anything more than just numbers will be less appealing if people can see that there are many smaller fleets looking for quality people.
(NOT saying that all mega monster fleets don't care about their members, but lets face it we can all think of probably 1 or 2 that are completely in it for the bragging rights)
here Here. Fortunately, Our Small Fleet Is Going Strong Thanks To The Nutter-esc Capability Of Some Of Our Players.
Saying That, I Don't Think The Rewards Should Be Increased By That Much. Small Fleets Should Not Be Able To Easily Get To Tier 5 - Otherwise What's The Point?
^^^^
| | | |
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This is exactly why a smaller base for smaller fleets and a larger one with more options for a larger fleet makes perfect sense. Hell the basic layout of the Utopia Plainitia Shipyard map with a comms building added to the left and a shuttle/ship bay to the left and everything else in between....small, functional what more do you need??
Personally I agree that smaller fleets should be able to do it as fast or in the case of my idea have all these options for customizing the base, but at the same time our progress as smaller fleets shouldn't be bottle necked as much or completely stalled, just because we don't want to abandon all our hard work up to whatever point we're at just to join a large fleet.
Maybe what we really need if two different sized bases isn't the solution is some type of in-game fleet recruitment board near the fleet ambassador. I don't mean he list of fleets that we have now, but the fleet owner or second in charge can only give a brief description of the fleet with who to contact for more information. These messages should only stay active for 2 weeks or maybe a month before they are automatically removed and have to be reposted. it would cut down on fleet recruitment in zone chat and hopefully the mega monster fleets that don't care about anything more than just numbers will be less appealing if people can see that there are many smaller fleets looking for quality people.
(NOT saying that all mega monster fleets don't care about their members, but lets face it we can all think of probably 1 or 2 that are completely in it for the bragging rights)
They do have the Fleet Finder in game which shockingly I have gotten multiple members randomly out of. There is also a recruitment Board on the Forums for the players. But you can Advertise yourself in the Fleet finder, You just have to fill out the information tab of your fleet.
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My fleet is a good 300 members strong (Most are alts though and thus don't count) however I only ever see 30 online and 10 in the chat and only 5 of those ever do any fleet content...
I do strongly believe fleet marks need to be brought up to the level of availability of omega and romulan marks at least that way a player could get a fair amount of marks in a reasonable time. I'd like to get more than 1 mark for each minute I spend doing content.
So, how is this helping with fixing the Fleet requirements by going after how I type?
Helping this will entail finding a new source of quick, easy profit in accommodating small fleets, which isn't likely to happen.
You just annoyed me with your aloof tone, is all.
instead of showing ways to improve the situation you have just complained of the situation. I am guessing you ran out of words to say and have no actual ways to improve the situation.
Several people have alluded to ways to improve it. It's not my problem if you're unwilling to consider anything outside of "Large fleets rule all, small fleets deserve nothing, and if you object to the grind you obviously don't want to work for your rewards."
Maybe Cryptic Should put out a C-Store varient of a Fleet mark Booster.
If it stacks with the booster you can buy in the fleet base, this would be a useful suggestion.
This is not Biased against small Fleets, It's simple Common sense, More manpower = More things get done. This is a realistic Concept in life. Five people can't build a village in the same time frame Fifty people Can. Same with the Bases.
Flawed analogy. Five people would be building one house, not an entire village. What would be the point of having a bunch of useless empty structures? Five people can build one house in a similar amount of time as fifty people can build ten.
Flawed analogy. Five people would be building one house, not an entire village. What would be the point of having a bunch of useless empty structures? Five people can build one house in a similar amount of time as fifty people can build ten.
Not a Flawed Analogy, Flawed thinking. The village would be ready for settlers Quicker with more people working on it. Sure One house would get built, but with Fifty people you now have 10 houses ready. This allows More villagers to move in hence brings in more manpower to continue the expansion.
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Helping this will entail finding a new source of quick, easy profit in accommodating small fleets, which isn't likely to happen.
You just annoyed me with your aloof tone, is all.
eh, I'm not easy to talk to, down side of my disability, Social awkwardness and I tend to be more robotic then anything. It has it's perk where it comes to being detail orientated, down side is everything is looked at a cold and factual way.
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Not really
As you now need a school
A temple
A hospital
A shop
A small pub
where as the house is self contained
oh and 50 people build 3 houses in the time 5 people build a house not ten times as fast
because
5 people are all working
out of the 50
1 site manager (doesn't build)
1 payroll clerk (doesn't build)
3 Health and safety and first aiders (don't build either)
10 labourers (mostly on a tea break)
4 carpenters (on a cigarette break)
1 Electrician (asleep in the van)
leaving 30 people
each of whom thinks he is doing more than his share and is slacking off
Not really
As you now need a school
A temple
A hospital
A shop
A small pub
where as the house is self contained
oh and 50 people build 3 houses in the time 5 people build a house not ten times as fast
because
5 people are all working
out of the 50
1 site manager (doesn't build)
1 payroll clerk (doesn't build)
3 Health and safety and first aiders (don't build either)
10 labourers (mostly on a tea break)
4 carpenters (on a cigarette break)
1 Electrician (asleep in the van)
leaving 30 people
each of whom thinks he is doing more than his share and is slacking off
And if they are Unionised as well
well forget it
Said a Village, we also talked about productivity so why would you bother including Modern abilities in this. that would just slow the pace down further :P Todays workers are increasingly Lazy and less efficient compared to in the past where they worked thru a broken arm. Anyway that is all the feeding you will get from me sir. BTW Welcome back, I havent seen you on full time in a while :P
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But the point im making is a big fleet usually has passengers
No argument about the passengers , and hope you are better sir. Nothing to serious? Well must of been to get the hole but, you know what I mean
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But the point im making is a big fleet usually has passengers
Loved your first post. Maybe you were trolling, but if so, it was funny
Sorry to hear about the hole in the head... It sounds painful at best. Well, unless you are turning it into some kind of jack so you can plug yourself directly into a computer. Then it would be cool.
And your comment about large fleets having passengers is another reason to look at my scaling idea. If your fleet has 300 members, the only way you will advance quickly at a starbase is by having most if not all of those members doing their fair share.
Edit: Makes you wonder about these super-fleets with 400 members. How many of them are alts or passengers?
Loved your first post. Maybe you were trolling, but if so, it was funny
Sorry to hear about the hole in the head... It sounds painful at best. Well, unless you are turning it into some kind of jack so you can plug yourself directly into a computer. Then it would be cool.
And your comment about large fleets having passengers is another reason to look at my scaling idea. If your fleet has 300 members, the only way you will advance quickly at a starbase is by having most if not all of those members doing their fair share.
Edit: Makes you wonder about these super-fleets with 400 members. How many of them are alts or passengers?
* has 12 characters on this account, 3 characters that are strictly used for Selling because it's easier to trade and continue to do what your doing that way, then his wifes account has another 3 *
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Here here. Fortunately, our small fleet is going strong thanks to the nutter-esc capability of some of our players.
Saying that, I don't think the rewards should be increased by that much. Small fleets should not be able to easily get to tier 5 - otherwise what's the point?
I know it's a crazy idea, but what if all fleet projects are scaled so every fleet can progress at the same rate? Letting people have the social circles they're comfortable with instead of dictating go large or die.
It would probably do wonders for player retention, as strong social ties keep people invested in MMOs longer.
I have diabeties I get ulcers that become infected
I got one on the back of my skull behind my ear
its not going to kill ya but it hurts like hell for a few weeks until it is gone and (nasty graphic bit) leaks serum and small amounts of blood down your neck at odd times.
so I could not sit at a computer (or upright at all) without making a mess
Not a serious problem
And I never Troll
If I was Going to Troll id be a LOT better at it wouldn't i??
I know of one fleet (no names due to forum rules ) that breaks down like this
Command council (top rank) 6 characters all alts of the same person on two accounts
Field commanders (second rank ) 12 characters (all Alts of 3 different people)
Captains (third rank ) 60 odd characters belonging to a total of 20 people
and about 40 lower ranked people none of whom seems to be active
(if you hit the 1 million fleet credits mark you get promoted to Captain automatically and access to the store)
and of course most of my own (30+) alts are in two alt fleets
I have diabeties I get ulcers that become infected
I got one on the back of my skull behind my ear
its not going to kill ya but it hurts like hell for a few weeks until it is gone and (nasty graphic bit) leaks serum and small amounts of blood down your neck at odd times.
so I could not sit at a computer (or upright at all) without making a mess
Not a serious problem
And I never Troll
If I was Going to Troll id be a LOT better at it wouldn't i??
I know of one fleet (no names due to forum rules ) that breaks down like this
Command council (top rank) 6 characters all alts of the same person on two accounts
Field commanders (second rank ) 12 characters (all Alts of 3 different people)
Captains (third rank ) 60 odd characters belonging to a total of 20 people
and about 40 lower ranked people none of whom seems to be active
(if you hit the 1 million fleet credits mark you get promoted to Captain automatically and access to the store)
and of course most of my own (30+) alts are in two alt fleets
Alot of fleets have that 1 million donation requirement that I know of. Personally I do like it because it makes your players have to be involved instead of leeching off of success
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Alright, let's run with the real-world comparison, using just ships as the example.
A larger fleet, unlocking a shipyard tier, has then allowed for all members to use that tier of ships.
A smaller fleet, unlocking that same tier in the same amount of time (not asking for that. this is just for the sake of discussion), is still not able to build as many of those ships. They are still not equivalently capable.
Now, if your response is something like "The individuals will still have easier access to the same loot," then you've just subverted the whole argument about fleet bases being mainly to serve groups instead of single people.
They do have the Fleet Finder in game which shockingly I have gotten multiple members randomly out of. There is also a recruitment Board on the Forums for the players. But you can Advertise yourself in the Fleet finder, You just have to fill out the information tab of your fleet.
Long had that filled out good luck getting it to search proper sometimes thou, I've tried searching my fleet several times and the results aren't always consistent, You're right about the forum post, but not everyone uses the forums and even then recruitment posts can get buried in a couple of hours.
The real issue that keeps getting missed here is that smaller fleets take longer to progress than larger one, normally no big deal just recruit new members. However, the issue that larger fleets don't/can't understand is the higher the progression the higher end gear fleetmates can get. thus creating a huge incentive for joining a larger fleet, leaving us smaller fleets trying to scramble for the very few that don't want a larger fleet, or think a smaller fleet is cool until they realize the gear they're missing out on. Smaller fleets have no incentive really to appeal to new members.
It seems like there is some mis-communication that we smaller fleets want everything now and for free, really all we want is some type of system that levels the incentive field a little so we have more of a chance to recruit new members that will stay.
And just to beat whoever to the punch, you can't say an incentive for being in a smaller fleet is that you can contribute more hence getting more fleet creds, because people get too impatient waiting for the base to level up enough to spend those creds on good gear.
Here' s a challenge to all the large fleets that think it's so easy:
Splinter off 20 or fewer of your alts from different members or your fleet and create a new fleet, now only using those 20 or less alts try to progress in a fleet base along with the embassy and rep like you normally would. Then may be you'll be able to understand.
[QUOTE=xantris;6938411 It takes 20 minutes at most to meet your daily mark requirements to keep the Romulan reputation train running, and you can earn fleet marks while doing it. In the 15 minutes it takes to keep your Omega train running, you're also earning dilithium and loot. That leaves a whole lot of time to do fleet mark events, if that's what floats your boat.
This game's so-called grind is ridiculously easy for a casual player. I can manage to push my personal goals along and contribute to my fleet at a decent clip, and I play maybe an hour a day, and I don't even have any alts like most of the community does. The Doff system is a casual players dream, and the time-gated dilithium and reputation systems make it incredibly easy to keep up with hardcore players. What more do you want?
[/QUOTE]
Wow I want to live on your planet. For the past few day I have been unable to keep my OMEGA and ROMULAN trains running. I don't konw at what Tier you are right now but it mathematically impossible to get all the required ROMULAN or OMEGA marks in 15-20 minutes. As for Fleet Marks, I was in the queues for 3 hours the other day and only 1 ever popped up. So I made I big 31 Fleet Marks that days. I've stopped trying to do the Investigate Officer Reports since I'm wasting my time trying to do missions that I cannot complete because enemies or items do not spawn. So I do agree with the OP.
Long had that filled out good luck getting it to search proper sometimes thou, I've tried searching my fleet several times and the results aren't always consistent, You're right about the forum post, but not everyone uses the forums and even then recruitment posts can get buried in a couple of hours.
The real issue that keeps getting missed here is that smaller fleets take longer to progress than larger one, normally no big deal just recruit new members. However, the issue that larger fleets don't/can't understand is the higher the progression the higher end gear fleetmates can get. thus creating a huge incentive for joining a larger fleet, leaving us smaller fleets trying to scramble for the very few that don't want a larger fleet, or think a smaller fleet is cool until they realize the gear they're missing out on. Smaller fleets have no incentive really to appeal to new members.
It seems like there is some mis-communication that we smaller fleets want everything now and for free, really all we want is some type of system that levels the incentive field a little so we have more of a chance to recruit new members that will stay.
And just to beat whoever to the punch, you can't say an incentive for being in a smaller fleet is that you can contribute more hence getting more fleet creds, because people get too impatient waiting for the base to level up enough to spend those creds on good gear.
Here' s a challenge to all the large fleets that think it's so easy:
Splinter off 20 or fewer of your alts from different members or your fleet and create a new fleet, now only using those 20 or less alts try to progress in a fleet base along with the embassy and rep like you normally would. Then may be you'll be able to understand.
Yes, But I can counter that My fleet was and many smaller fleets I know ARE keeping on the same playing field as the Larger fleets. We have been doing it since the beginning, and we did it with HArder requirements then are available now. Second off, The Fleet Gear isnt really that impressive if you have looked at it or seen others with it. You can get better and far cheaper resource wise gear off the Exchange. If the Fleet offered Accx3 gear I would say it was worth it, or even CritDx3. The only thing I am chasing is the Fleet Armitage and the Advanced Elite Pets for my carrier toons. Otherwise So far I have been Severely Depressed with what the fleet base offers. I am grinding to tier 5 just to pay 1 fleet module for 1 ship. Then I am hoping once science 5 unlocks the Advanced PEts will be worth the most likely tear jerking price of them. I would not even say the Gear is worth it for PVP because Accx3 off the exchange is way more worth then any of the fleet guns. For the most part STF gear is still Reigning Champ.
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Wow I want to live on your planet. For the past few day I have been unable to keep my OMEGA and ROMULAN trains running. I don't konw at what Tier you are right now but it mathematically impossible to get all the required ROMULAN or OMEGA marks in 15-20 minutes. As for Fleet Marks, I was in the queues for 3 hours the other day and only 1 ever popped up. So I made I big 31 Fleet Marks that days. I've stopped trying to do the Investigate Officer Reports since I'm wasting my time trying to do missions that I cannot complete because enemies or items do not spawn. So I do agree with the OP.
Well sir I get 60-90 Omega Marks AT LEAST out of a Elite STF. As well as the 6-11 of the Borg Neuro's. Stop waiting in the FLARK event queu's Get on Defara or Get on Nakura, Alot of the medium Missions can be done solo and Quickly. Also on Defara it is typically EASY to get into a Hard level Team which Gives you a Nice amount of Fleet Marks out of it. I rarely PUG the Fleet mark Events.
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for example a very good friend of mine queued for klingon fleet actions for three hours yesterday
None started
Meanwhile I did a stf some missions and a couple of short foundrys
I myself have queued for upto an hour to get a fleet action going
and its harder now we can't see how many are in each queue
for example a very good friend of mine queued for klingon fleet actions for three hours yesterday
None started
Meanwhile I did a stf some missions and a couple of short foundrys
I myself have queued for upto an hour to get a fleet action going
and its harder now we can't see how many are in each queue
Well this is why I hit Nakura and Defara.you can still Earn Quick Fleet marks out of it. All day Long as well.
Also Subspace-Radio often is running the Events and so is it's listener Base. Channel: SSR . The DJ's are Awesome Except for Paul ( Hi Askray) and it's a fun group to hang out with. I am often tuned into SSR thru IRC or XMPP, and tuned into http://subspace-radio.net. It is also a good station to tune into because Often you will Hear Dev interviews the DJ's do as well as find out upcoming information before it hits the STO sites.
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If you are looking for a fleet for purely social purposes and enjoy a small fleet setting, then continue to be in a small fleet. You will be waiting forever for shinies but that is the trade off.
If you are looking for a fleet to be a source of shinies, then get into at least a medium sized fleet and contribute to the projects.
I have been on both sides of the issue personally. I often get asked to join power fleets, but I really like the fleet I am in, so I stay. We are going to have to wait longer for some of the shinies, but I enjoy the community we have and that is more valuable than the shinies to me. If my perspective on that changes, I will join a bigger fleet and sacrifice the other aspects.
Consider this:
You CHOOSE to make a five man fleet. Or ... you CHOOSE to join a 200 man fleet. Either way it is YOUR CHOICE.
You could choose to hit somewhere in the middle. Instead of having a five man fleet or joining a 200 man fleet, consider being part of a medium sized fleet. Your five man fleet could be contributing those resources to projects that actually get completed. You could have your shinies AND still enjoy most of the small community flavor.
Expecting to have similar results from an itty bitty fleet and be on the same playing field with larger fleets, is like going into Gorn Minefield in a T2 ship with white MK III gear and then complaining that the "system of things" doesn't let you get first place.
You want your small tight knit group and not have to socialize with a larger group? I think that is awesome, but sorry, you don't get the same shinies as a huge fleet that has to deal with all the issues it presents.
That said, having to do anything (I.E. Officer of the Watch or in the case of Romulan Marks: Staging Area Daily) for a reward of five or ten marks seems pointless to me, regardless of how little time is involved. Just do other missions that reward better and don;t waste time on these missions.
F large fleets. If I wanted to be a nameless faceless number, I'd be in one already. I like(d) my small fleet, we were comrades in arms and it was fun.
LIKED
WERE comrades
WAS fun
You just raised an argument against your own position.
Yes, But I can counter that My fleet was and many smaller fleets I know ARE keeping on the same playing field as the Larger fleets. We have been doing it since the beginning, and we did it with HArder requirements then are available now. Second off, The Fleet Gear isnt really that impressive if you have looked at it or seen others with it. You can get better and far cheaper resource wise gear off the Exchange. If the Fleet offered Accx3 gear I would say it was worth it, or even CritDx3. The only thing I am chasing is the Fleet Armitage and the Advanced Elite Pets for my carrier toons. Otherwise So far I have been Severely Depressed with what the fleet base offers. I am grinding to tier 5 just to pay 1 fleet module for 1 ship. Then I am hoping once science 5 unlocks the Advanced PEts will be worth the most likely tear jerking price of them. I would not even say the Gear is worth it for PVP because Accx3 off the exchange is way more worth then any of the fleet guns. For the most part STF gear is still Reigning Champ.
Okay well with that said about the fleet gear then perhaps your fleet and the other larger ones would be willing to do some type of alliance with the smaller fleets that want the higher tier fleet ships. personally I'd be willing to do some type of services trade for the ability to get a fleet mvae.
personally I was thinking of trying out the romulan space set and if that wasn't good enough going back to the stf set, especially now that you've said the fleet gear isn't really worth it.
Okay well with that said about the fleet gear then perhaps your fleet and the other larger ones would be willing to do some type of alliance with the smaller fleets that want the higher tier fleet ships. personally I'd be willing to do some type of services trade for the ability to get a fleet mvae.
personally I was thinking of trying out the romulan space set and if that wasn't good enough going back to the stf set, especially now that you've said the fleet gear isn't really worth it.
I have Actually seen Fleets Offering to Sell Fleet Gear. I have seen Fleet Vessels Sell for 10 Mil EC (ontop of obviously what you are paying to Cryptic... )
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You CHOOSE to make a five man fleet. Or ... you CHOOSE to join a 200 man fleet. Either way it is YOUR CHOICE.
OK, answer me this, smart guy. What about people in small-to-medium sized fleets who watched their members bail one-by-one for the instant gratification of joining a big fleet and gaining immediate access to everything? What about those smaller fleets that were humming along at a relatively decent pace, then found significant sources of income removed or reduced. Are we expected to see the future in making these CHOICES?
OR, do you expect us to waste all that effort and disband our little unloved fleets so we can go sit with the popular kids?
:rolleyes:
Expecting to have similar results from an itty bitty fleet and be on the same playing field with larger fleets, is like going into Gorn Minefield in a T2 ship with white MK III gear and then complaining that the "system of things" doesn't let you get first place.
Speaking only for myself, all I would ask for is a reduction in fleet base grind across the board. Calling it "endgame content" doesn't negate the fact that none of the stuff you unlock is nearly special enough to justify an investment of years.
You want your small tight knit group and not have to socialize with a larger group? I think that is awesome, but sorry, you don't get the same shinies as a huge fleet that has to deal with all the issues it presents.
Actually, we do get the same shinies. Just so much slower that it isn't worth it, and small fleets constitute enough of the player base that this demands more than dismissiv advice to join a big fleet.
Comments
This is exactly why a smaller base for smaller fleets and a larger one with more options for a larger fleet makes perfect sense. Hell the basic layout of the Utopia Plainitia Shipyard map with a comms building added to the left and a shuttle/ship bay to the left and everything else in between....small, functional what more do you need??
Personally I agree that smaller fleets should be able to do it as fast or in the case of my idea have all these options for customizing the base, but at the same time our progress as smaller fleets shouldn't be bottle necked as much or completely stalled, just because we don't want to abandon all our hard work up to whatever point we're at just to join a large fleet.
Maybe what we really need if two different sized bases isn't the solution is some type of in-game fleet recruitment board near the fleet ambassador. I don't mean he list of fleets that we have now, but the fleet owner or second in charge can only give a brief description of the fleet with who to contact for more information. These messages should only stay active for 2 weeks or maybe a month before they are automatically removed and have to be reposted. it would cut down on fleet recruitment in zone chat and hopefully the mega monster fleets that don't care about anything more than just numbers will be less appealing if people can see that there are many smaller fleets looking for quality people.
(NOT saying that all mega monster fleets don't care about their members, but lets face it we can all think of probably 1 or 2 that are completely in it for the bragging rights)
^^^^
| | | |
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They do have the Fleet Finder in game which shockingly I have gotten multiple members randomly out of. There is also a recruitment Board on the Forums for the players. But you can Advertise yourself in the Fleet finder, You just have to fill out the information tab of your fleet.
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Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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I do strongly believe fleet marks need to be brought up to the level of availability of omega and romulan marks at least that way a player could get a fair amount of marks in a reasonable time. I'd like to get more than 1 mark for each minute I spend doing content.
Helping this will entail finding a new source of quick, easy profit in accommodating small fleets, which isn't likely to happen.
You just annoyed me with your aloof tone, is all.
Several people have alluded to ways to improve it. It's not my problem if you're unwilling to consider anything outside of "Large fleets rule all, small fleets deserve nothing, and if you object to the grind you obviously don't want to work for your rewards."
If it stacks with the booster you can buy in the fleet base, this would be a useful suggestion.
Flawed analogy. Five people would be building one house, not an entire village. What would be the point of having a bunch of useless empty structures? Five people can build one house in a similar amount of time as fifty people can build ten.
Not a Flawed Analogy, Flawed thinking. The village would be ready for settlers Quicker with more people working on it. Sure One house would get built, but with Fifty people you now have 10 houses ready. This allows More villagers to move in hence brings in more manpower to continue the expansion.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
eh, I'm not easy to talk to, down side of my disability, Social awkwardness and I tend to be more robotic then anything. It has it's perk where it comes to being detail orientated, down side is everything is looked at a cold and factual way.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
As you now need a school
A temple
A hospital
A shop
A small pub
where as the house is self contained
oh and 50 people build 3 houses in the time 5 people build a house not ten times as fast
because
5 people are all working
out of the 50
1 site manager (doesn't build)
1 payroll clerk (doesn't build)
3 Health and safety and first aiders (don't build either)
10 labourers (mostly on a tea break)
4 carpenters (on a cigarette break)
1 Electrician (asleep in the van)
leaving 30 people
each of whom thinks he is doing more than his share and is slacking off
And if they are Unionised as well
well forget it
Said a Village, we also talked about productivity so why would you bother including Modern abilities in this. that would just slow the pace down further :P Todays workers are increasingly Lazy and less efficient compared to in the past where they worked thru a broken arm. Anyway that is all the feeding you will get from me sir. BTW Welcome back, I havent seen you on full time in a while :P
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
But the point im making is a big fleet usually has passengers
No argument about the passengers , and hope you are better sir. Nothing to serious? Well must of been to get the hole but, you know what I mean
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
Loved your first post. Maybe you were trolling, but if so, it was funny
Sorry to hear about the hole in the head... It sounds painful at best. Well, unless you are turning it into some kind of jack so you can plug yourself directly into a computer. Then it would be cool.
And your comment about large fleets having passengers is another reason to look at my scaling idea. If your fleet has 300 members, the only way you will advance quickly at a starbase is by having most if not all of those members doing their fair share.
Edit: Makes you wonder about these super-fleets with 400 members. How many of them are alts or passengers?
* has 12 characters on this account, 3 characters that are strictly used for Selling because it's easier to trade and continue to do what your doing that way, then his wifes account has another 3 *
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
I know it's a crazy idea, but what if all fleet projects are scaled so every fleet can progress at the same rate? Letting people have the social circles they're comfortable with instead of dictating go large or die.
It would probably do wonders for player retention, as strong social ties keep people invested in MMOs longer.
I got one on the back of my skull behind my ear
its not going to kill ya but it hurts like hell for a few weeks until it is gone and (nasty graphic bit) leaks serum and small amounts of blood down your neck at odd times.
so I could not sit at a computer (or upright at all) without making a mess
Not a serious problem
And I never Troll
If I was Going to Troll id be a LOT better at it wouldn't i??
I know of one fleet (no names due to forum rules ) that breaks down like this
Command council (top rank) 6 characters all alts of the same person on two accounts
Field commanders (second rank ) 12 characters (all Alts of 3 different people)
Captains (third rank ) 60 odd characters belonging to a total of 20 people
and about 40 lower ranked people none of whom seems to be active
(if you hit the 1 million fleet credits mark you get promoted to Captain automatically and access to the store)
and of course most of my own (30+) alts are in two alt fleets
Alot of fleets have that 1 million donation requirement that I know of. Personally I do like it because it makes your players have to be involved instead of leeching off of success
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
A larger fleet, unlocking a shipyard tier, has then allowed for all members to use that tier of ships.
A smaller fleet, unlocking that same tier in the same amount of time (not asking for that. this is just for the sake of discussion), is still not able to build as many of those ships. They are still not equivalently capable.
Now, if your response is something like "The individuals will still have easier access to the same loot," then you've just subverted the whole argument about fleet bases being mainly to serve groups instead of single people.
Long had that filled out good luck getting it to search proper sometimes thou, I've tried searching my fleet several times and the results aren't always consistent, You're right about the forum post, but not everyone uses the forums and even then recruitment posts can get buried in a couple of hours.
The real issue that keeps getting missed here is that smaller fleets take longer to progress than larger one, normally no big deal just recruit new members. However, the issue that larger fleets don't/can't understand is the higher the progression the higher end gear fleetmates can get. thus creating a huge incentive for joining a larger fleet, leaving us smaller fleets trying to scramble for the very few that don't want a larger fleet, or think a smaller fleet is cool until they realize the gear they're missing out on. Smaller fleets have no incentive really to appeal to new members.
It seems like there is some mis-communication that we smaller fleets want everything now and for free, really all we want is some type of system that levels the incentive field a little so we have more of a chance to recruit new members that will stay.
And just to beat whoever to the punch, you can't say an incentive for being in a smaller fleet is that you can contribute more hence getting more fleet creds, because people get too impatient waiting for the base to level up enough to spend those creds on good gear.
Here' s a challenge to all the large fleets that think it's so easy:
Splinter off 20 or fewer of your alts from different members or your fleet and create a new fleet, now only using those 20 or less alts try to progress in a fleet base along with the embassy and rep like you normally would. Then may be you'll be able to understand.
This game's so-called grind is ridiculously easy for a casual player. I can manage to push my personal goals along and contribute to my fleet at a decent clip, and I play maybe an hour a day, and I don't even have any alts like most of the community does. The Doff system is a casual players dream, and the time-gated dilithium and reputation systems make it incredibly easy to keep up with hardcore players. What more do you want?
[/QUOTE]
Wow I want to live on your planet. For the past few day I have been unable to keep my OMEGA and ROMULAN trains running. I don't konw at what Tier you are right now but it mathematically impossible to get all the required ROMULAN or OMEGA marks in 15-20 minutes. As for Fleet Marks, I was in the queues for 3 hours the other day and only 1 ever popped up. So I made I big 31 Fleet Marks that days. I've stopped trying to do the Investigate Officer Reports since I'm wasting my time trying to do missions that I cannot complete because enemies or items do not spawn. So I do agree with the OP.
Yes, But I can counter that My fleet was and many smaller fleets I know ARE keeping on the same playing field as the Larger fleets. We have been doing it since the beginning, and we did it with HArder requirements then are available now. Second off, The Fleet Gear isnt really that impressive if you have looked at it or seen others with it. You can get better and far cheaper resource wise gear off the Exchange. If the Fleet offered Accx3 gear I would say it was worth it, or even CritDx3. The only thing I am chasing is the Fleet Armitage and the Advanced Elite Pets for my carrier toons. Otherwise So far I have been Severely Depressed with what the fleet base offers. I am grinding to tier 5 just to pay 1 fleet module for 1 ship. Then I am hoping once science 5 unlocks the Advanced PEts will be worth the most likely tear jerking price of them. I would not even say the Gear is worth it for PVP because Accx3 off the exchange is way more worth then any of the fleet guns. For the most part STF gear is still Reigning Champ.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
Well sir I get 60-90 Omega Marks AT LEAST out of a Elite STF. As well as the 6-11 of the Borg Neuro's. Stop waiting in the FLARK event queu's Get on Defara or Get on Nakura, Alot of the medium Missions can be done solo and Quickly. Also on Defara it is typically EASY to get into a Hard level Team which Gives you a Nice amount of Fleet Marks out of it. I rarely PUG the Fleet mark Events.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
Fleet is becoming near impossible
for example a very good friend of mine queued for klingon fleet actions for three hours yesterday
None started
Meanwhile I did a stf some missions and a couple of short foundrys
I myself have queued for upto an hour to get a fleet action going
and its harder now we can't see how many are in each queue
Well this is why I hit Nakura and Defara.you can still Earn Quick Fleet marks out of it. All day Long as well.
Also Subspace-Radio often is running the Events and so is it's listener Base. Channel: SSR . The DJ's are Awesome Except for Paul ( Hi Askray) and it's a fun group to hang out with. I am often tuned into SSR thru IRC or XMPP, and tuned into http://subspace-radio.net. It is also a good station to tune into because Often you will Hear Dev interviews the DJ's do as well as find out upcoming information before it hits the STO sites.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
If you are looking for a fleet for purely social purposes and enjoy a small fleet setting, then continue to be in a small fleet. You will be waiting forever for shinies but that is the trade off.
If you are looking for a fleet to be a source of shinies, then get into at least a medium sized fleet and contribute to the projects.
I have been on both sides of the issue personally. I often get asked to join power fleets, but I really like the fleet I am in, so I stay. We are going to have to wait longer for some of the shinies, but I enjoy the community we have and that is more valuable than the shinies to me. If my perspective on that changes, I will join a bigger fleet and sacrifice the other aspects.
Consider this:
You CHOOSE to make a five man fleet. Or ... you CHOOSE to join a 200 man fleet. Either way it is YOUR CHOICE.
You could choose to hit somewhere in the middle. Instead of having a five man fleet or joining a 200 man fleet, consider being part of a medium sized fleet. Your five man fleet could be contributing those resources to projects that actually get completed. You could have your shinies AND still enjoy most of the small community flavor.
Expecting to have similar results from an itty bitty fleet and be on the same playing field with larger fleets, is like going into Gorn Minefield in a T2 ship with white MK III gear and then complaining that the "system of things" doesn't let you get first place.
You want your small tight knit group and not have to socialize with a larger group? I think that is awesome, but sorry, you don't get the same shinies as a huge fleet that has to deal with all the issues it presents.
That said, having to do anything (I.E. Officer of the Watch or in the case of Romulan Marks: Staging Area Daily) for a reward of five or ten marks seems pointless to me, regardless of how little time is involved. Just do other missions that reward better and don;t waste time on these missions.
And that is my two cents worth.
LIKED
WERE comrades
WAS fun
You just raised an argument against your own position.
Okay well with that said about the fleet gear then perhaps your fleet and the other larger ones would be willing to do some type of alliance with the smaller fleets that want the higher tier fleet ships. personally I'd be willing to do some type of services trade for the ability to get a fleet mvae.
personally I was thinking of trying out the romulan space set and if that wasn't good enough going back to the stf set, especially now that you've said the fleet gear isn't really worth it.
I have Actually seen Fleets Offering to Sell Fleet Gear. I have seen Fleet Vessels Sell for 10 Mil EC (ontop of obviously what you are paying to Cryptic... )
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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OK, answer me this, smart guy. What about people in small-to-medium sized fleets who watched their members bail one-by-one for the instant gratification of joining a big fleet and gaining immediate access to everything? What about those smaller fleets that were humming along at a relatively decent pace, then found significant sources of income removed or reduced. Are we expected to see the future in making these CHOICES?
OR, do you expect us to waste all that effort and disband our little unloved fleets so we can go sit with the popular kids?
:rolleyes:
Speaking only for myself, all I would ask for is a reduction in fleet base grind across the board. Calling it "endgame content" doesn't negate the fact that none of the stuff you unlock is nearly special enough to justify an investment of years.
Actually, we do get the same shinies. Just so much slower that it isn't worth it, and small fleets constitute enough of the player base that this demands more than dismissiv advice to join a big fleet.