I just want to log in, think "what part of the game would I like to play today" and play it, getting whichever reward I need. I understand where Reputation might need to be somewhat limited in where it is earned. I do NOT understand why marks aren't an option from nearly everything we can do, including and perhaps especially Featured Episode replay.
The above sums up my views.
Today for example, I wanted to run STF's all day. Was just in the mood for it. Unfortunately I had to break that up by having to run 4 versions of the Big Dig to get fleet Marks. I also had to drag 4 characters all round the galaxy to collect specific DoFF missions so I could get 10k+ cxp daily in order to convert to Fleet Marks.
Well I paid for access to fleet ships from a larger fleet, so i'll soon be mothballing my current fleet once I finish off the Tier II projects. Cryptic/PWE on one hand give you the tools to build your little sandcastle and then kick it down when you dare to attempt to build it in a way that doesn't suit them.
Today for example, I wanted to run STF's all day. Was just in the mood for it. Unfortunately I had to break that up by having to run 4 versions of the Big Dig to get fleet Marks. I also had to drag 4 characters all round the galaxy to collect specific DoFF missions so I could get 10k+ cxp daily in order to convert to Fleet Marks.
Well I paid for access to fleet ships from a larger fleet, so i'll soon be mothballing my current fleet once I finish off the Tier II projects. Cryptic/PWE on one hand give you the tools to build your little sandcastle and then kick it down when you dare to attempt to build it in a way that doesn't suit them.
They are Letting you build your Castle, You yourself make your Success. You can Either Strive For Success Or Complain you can't Reach where others have to try to get your way to it. As I said I ran a Smaller Fleet, Hell I joined another Small Fleet that had the same ideologies as I do. I have fun on a daily basis, Joke around and Occasionally We gather together during the Events To grab what we need for the base. We for the most part Do it very well as we push for our Success. Only thing Stopping you is the Countdown timer to completion. How you reach that Timer is entirely Up to you. If you have the Mindset of I need it now, You will burn yourself Out. If you have the mindset that a fleet of 200 is there, Why isnt my lonesome.. you will burn yourself out. You all Accepted the Rates of the base When you Started the Projects.
As for 50 Marks for Officer Daily.. I will gladly Take it.. That will Give my characters the ability to give near 2000 marks a day to my Starbase. Give Me Please.
Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
They are Letting you build your Castle, You yourself make your Success. You can Either Strive For Success Or Complain you can't Reach where others have to try to get your way to it.
Only so long as you play the game the way Cryptic wants you to. Which is fundamentally different from the manner in which a not insignificant number of people are trying to enjoy STO.
Proud Fleet Commander in Garfon's Renegades!
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
Cryptic Did the right thing. They Killed Off the Single to 3 player Fleets. Fleets were meant to be 5+ People. Alot of people Created the Starbases For the sheer use of having a TRIBBLE load of Extra Storage without having to pay Zen for it. As well as being Able to have more then 10 mil EC. This Hurts THEM the Most and on a Personal Level that I rarely touch. It should.
And why should you care so much about what other people do? What harm to your playtime was it if they did? They were having fun and happy customers. Happy customers spend money, keeping the game afloat.
As an MMO, shouldn't more than one playstyle be viable instead of tearing them down to until there is only one singular path?
Such small mindedness will kill this game. But maybe, in the meantime, the ever-shrinking clubhouse will give you that sense of superiority that you so desperately need.
That's the problem with video games in general these days thou. People want everything and they want it like yesterday. There's no pride in accomplishment anymore, just "This is too hard" or "This is taking to long".
If you want me to accept and even "take pride" in the protracted grind, the rewards need to be worth it.
The problem is that "sticking with your friends" means remaining in a tiny fleet for a lot of us.
Stop working on the fleet base for a week and have everyone in the fleet ask around for a good fleet for all of you to join. Its all a matter of finding a large fleet that will jive with your group. Even large fleets are having a hard time with some of the projects and most will welcome players joining it as a group.
.
Stop working on the fleet base for a week and have everyone in the fleet ask around for a good fleet for all of you to join. Its all a matter of finding a large fleet that will jive with your group. Even large fleets are having a hard time with some of the projects and most will welcome players joining it as a group.
.
Some people are not comfortable with having their clique in a large fleet. Some people hate large fleets for their drama. "Just join a large fleet" is a failure of game design. MMOs should encourage all forms of social grouping -- because social grouping of any size keeps people playing (and paying).
"Just join a large fleet" doesn't do that. It drives a portion of the player base away (and their revenue with them!). Maybe this template works in China, but not in the West.
Some people are not comfortable with having their clique in a large fleet. Some people hate large fleets for their drama. "Just join a large fleet" is a failure of game design. MMOs should encourage all forms of social grouping -- because social grouping of any size keeps people playing (and paying).
"Just join a large fleet" doesn't do that. It drives a portion of the player base away (and their revenue with them!). Maybe this template works in China, but not in the West.
So what you're saying is you want all the benefits of a large fleet with none of the tradeoffs of one.
"Just join a large fleet" is a failure of game design. MMOs should encourage all forms of social grouping -- because social grouping of any size keeps people playing (and paying).
"Just join a large fleet" doesn't do that. It drives a portion of the player base away (and their revenue with them!). Maybe this template works in China, but not in the West.
Its not a failure of game design when "joining a large fleet" IS the design intent .
You're looking at it from the point of view of a player interested in maximizing their fun. But I'm telling you that PWE's F2P model isn't about making it worth our while to spend cash at their game, its about controlling player behavior so they will feel more compelled to spend. Previously they had to prove to us that the game was worth a long term investment on our part, now all they have to do is get people to do impulse buys... you can guess which is easier/cheaper/more profitable (Hint: Its not the one that offers greater value to the players).
Its a subtle difference but its a VERY important one. They are clearly experimenting to see how much of their model they can fit to western audiences. PWE looking to get some real metrics about western player behavior in a western game is probably the biggest reason they bought Cryptic. Even if Cryptic is barely able to return its purchase price and no more, the real western metrics they can get are invaluable.
Don't misunderstand, I preferred it when the game had to prove it was worth a sub, now the important thing is monetization... most of the time making the game fun and monetized tend to be at odds.
i think all this boils down to is envy and lack of patience. you envy a larg fleet and their base, yet do not want to be just a cog in the machine of a large fleet. well its like this if you want big boy toys you have to put on your big boy pants.
is my fleet at a tier 5.. no. would we like to POOF have a tier 5? YES PLEASE! but its not going to happen. i would rather have something we all worked towards and can look at with pride and know we earned it and we worked as a team to build. perhaps some of you need to point the complaints elsewhere if you have a fleet of more than 4 or 5 active players and you dont feel like you are advancing fast enoough or are lagging behind other fleets your size its not the devs you should be complaining to.
you can earn anywhere from 20-60+ fleet marks from an event. you can earn 100+ marks in one hour quite easily. perhaps your time would be better spent there than fooliong with the officer of the watch. if your fleet is no more dedicated than to do a daily that usually involves shooting one poor lonely BoP or having some ship follow you from the transwarp gate then you dont deserve anything more than you have.
the problem is not the size of your fleet but the dedication of your members how many over 2mil do you have or 1mil or 750k or 500k... if you dont have any or very few who are contributing at those levels then you seriously need to look to those who are not and not the devs for a solution to your problem. the reality is that if you are not happy in your fleet perhaps you are in the wrong fleet.
The benefits of a large fleet is having a large pool of people to speak to and game with.
Being part of a large fleet has benefits and it has drawbacks. One of those benefits is more people to share the resource requirements. One of the drawbacks is that you don't know people as well, and there are greater interpersonal conflicts.
Starbase resource reqs should scale by number of players in the fleet.
Because, again, you don't want to have the detriments of a small fleet. Here's a tip for you: You think the requirements are too high? Go join a bigger fleet!
Wait, you won't do that. Why? Because you think being in a small fleet has benefits you don't want to give up. Well...no-bull! That's the tradeoff!
Weigh your options and make your choice. But this constant clamoring that everything needs to be delivered on a silver platter or else the sky is falling is quite honestly both ridiculous and pathetic.
Going back to the barn analogy, you're basically trying to build a full-size barn single handedly. IRL that's theoretically possible, I wouldn't want to try it, but it can be done. Fleetbases are enormous construction projects, there's no logical reason why someone could finish it single handedly easily.
Going back to the barn analogy, you're basically trying to build a full-size barn single handedly.
No, I'm enlisting a buddy or two to build a small garage for souping up our cars. I don't entertain the faintest whiff of a hope that I will get my entire base up to tier V. All I want for Xmas is a fleet defiant.
Being part of a large fleet has benefits and it has drawbacks. One of those benefits is more people to share the resource requirements. One of the drawbacks is that you don't know people as well, and there are greater interpersonal conflicts.
Because, again, you don't want to have the detriments of a small fleet. Here's a tip for you: You think the requirements are too high? Go join a bigger fleet!
Wait, you won't do that. Why? Because you think being in a small fleet has benefits you don't want to give up. Well...no-bull! That's the tradeoff!
Weigh your options and make your choice. But this constant clamoring that everything needs to be delivered on a silver platter or else the sky is falling is quite honestly both ridiculous and pathetic.
You seem to be great at preserving elitism, but are a TRIBBLE-poor game designer. The size of a social group should be a player choice, not a determination of game advancement. The bases are calculated out, if Cryptic was telling the truth, for a fleet of 25 daily players. That data can then be calculated upwards and downwards according to fleet size. The resource and time sinks will still be as weighty but will no longer be ridiculously easy for large fleets or incredibly insurmountable for small ones. It keeps the system fair (though I doubt you're looking for fair) and keeps people invested in the game, playing and spending cash.
................but since we still need marks a load other stuff its not as if I can spend in something, .............
I think in typical Cryptic fashion they totally overestimated their content's engagement. I don't think they expected the fleet mark generation would suffer as much as it did from the clickies going away.
In theory if Fleet marks were not an issue and DIl was... then a lot of people would be willing to spend a little for some DIl here and there. That was the idea t least.
No, it's fair for you. Not fair for a majority of players. The two things are not the same.
I don't know if solo players out-number big-fleet-member players... do you have any links to any official player base demographics?
My fleet is medium-sized, and we just absorbed another smaller fleet for the sake of pooling resources and getting more live, long term players in our groups. Our Starbase T3 shipyard just got finished last night. We have perhaps no more than a dozen folks actively contributing to starbase and embassy upgrades. Several of our members actually host podcast shows dedicated to STO. Most of us just quietly play the STO and shoot the breeze on Vent.
No, it's fair for you. Not fair for a majority of players. The two things are not the same.
Actually it's fair to all players, because all players have the choice of what fleet to join. If you want to be part of a small fleet for what ever reason that's your choice.
Fairness means everyone has the same options, not the same outcomes.
Also you have no way of knowing what the majority of the players think, or the size of their fleet.
This would appear to be the crux of the complaint and it's immediate solution.
The problem with fleet-jumping just to buy tiered equipment is that these fleet items also consume fleet provisions. Fleets have to donate dilithium, DOFFS, EC, time, and lots of other resources to generate these provisions. So, it's a LOT of work... much more than what many small fleets can handle. A larger fleet has more access to more players, thereby pooling their collective resources and benefiting their members at a faster pace.
Some fleets will let you in to purchase fleet items, but they will usually asked to be reimbursed for their resources too. 50k dilithium just to use Fleet vendors is more than reasonable.
This would appear to be the crux of the complaint and it's immediate solution.
:rolleyes:
Asked and answered, multiple times. I am not willing to abandon the countless hours I've already put into my base, and I don't have 20 hours a week to devote to farming altso so I can experiiment with other fleets.
There are several fleets you could join briefly and politely to buy a ship from. Several of my fleet members have run of to Tier 4 shipyard fleets in order to get fleet ships and have been welcomed back.
You could, in theory; temporarily leave your fleet and join a bigger one. Get your fleet ship and come back again. It has been done.
I do understand the provisioning requirements for fleets, as a fleet leader I spend most of my time trying to balance provisions for things. (I would like an option to ration out fleet purchases for this reason as I have seen several members drain all the provisions because they had an excess of credits and dilithium but c'est la vie.)
Some fleets, my own included would be happy to allow that. (The one thing we do have a surplus of, at least for now is fleet ship provisions.) Some for a modest fee.
Comments
The above sums up my views.
Today for example, I wanted to run STF's all day. Was just in the mood for it. Unfortunately I had to break that up by having to run 4 versions of the Big Dig to get fleet Marks. I also had to drag 4 characters all round the galaxy to collect specific DoFF missions so I could get 10k+ cxp daily in order to convert to Fleet Marks.
Well I paid for access to fleet ships from a larger fleet, so i'll soon be mothballing my current fleet once I finish off the Tier II projects. Cryptic/PWE on one hand give you the tools to build your little sandcastle and then kick it down when you dare to attempt to build it in a way that doesn't suit them.
They are Letting you build your Castle, You yourself make your Success. You can Either Strive For Success Or Complain you can't Reach where others have to try to get your way to it. As I said I ran a Smaller Fleet, Hell I joined another Small Fleet that had the same ideologies as I do. I have fun on a daily basis, Joke around and Occasionally We gather together during the Events To grab what we need for the base. We for the most part Do it very well as we push for our Success. Only thing Stopping you is the Countdown timer to completion. How you reach that Timer is entirely Up to you. If you have the Mindset of I need it now, You will burn yourself Out. If you have the mindset that a fleet of 200 is there, Why isnt my lonesome.. you will burn yourself out. You all Accepted the Rates of the base When you Started the Projects.
As for 50 Marks for Officer Daily.. I will gladly Take it.. That will Give my characters the ability to give near 2000 marks a day to my Starbase. Give Me Please.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
Only so long as you play the game the way Cryptic wants you to. Which is fundamentally different from the manner in which a not insignificant number of people are trying to enjoy STO.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
And why should you care so much about what other people do? What harm to your playtime was it if they did? They were having fun and happy customers. Happy customers spend money, keeping the game afloat.
As an MMO, shouldn't more than one playstyle be viable instead of tearing them down to until there is only one singular path?
Such small mindedness will kill this game. But maybe, in the meantime, the ever-shrinking clubhouse will give you that sense of superiority that you so desperately need.
If you want me to accept and even "take pride" in the protracted grind, the rewards need to be worth it.
^ THIS. The ROI on the Holdings and Rep grinds are not attractive enough.
Stop working on the fleet base for a week and have everyone in the fleet ask around for a good fleet for all of you to join. Its all a matter of finding a large fleet that will jive with your group. Even large fleets are having a hard time with some of the projects and most will welcome players joining it as a group.
.
Some people are not comfortable with having their clique in a large fleet. Some people hate large fleets for their drama. "Just join a large fleet" is a failure of game design. MMOs should encourage all forms of social grouping -- because social grouping of any size keeps people playing (and paying).
"Just join a large fleet" doesn't do that. It drives a portion of the player base away (and their revenue with them!). Maybe this template works in China, but not in the West.
So what you're saying is you want all the benefits of a large fleet with none of the tradeoffs of one.
The benefits of a large fleet is having a large pool of people to speak to and game with.
Starbase resource reqs should scale by number of players in the fleet.
Its not a failure of game design when "joining a large fleet" IS the design intent
You're looking at it from the point of view of a player interested in maximizing their fun. But I'm telling you that PWE's F2P model isn't about making it worth our while to spend cash at their game, its about controlling player behavior so they will feel more compelled to spend. Previously they had to prove to us that the game was worth a long term investment on our part, now all they have to do is get people to do impulse buys... you can guess which is easier/cheaper/more profitable (Hint: Its not the one that offers greater value to the players).
Its a subtle difference but its a VERY important one. They are clearly experimenting to see how much of their model they can fit to western audiences. PWE looking to get some real metrics about western player behavior in a western game is probably the biggest reason they bought Cryptic. Even if Cryptic is barely able to return its purchase price and no more, the real western metrics they can get are invaluable.
Don't misunderstand, I preferred it when the game had to prove it was worth a sub, now the important thing is monetization... most of the time making the game fun and monetized tend to be at odds.
is my fleet at a tier 5.. no. would we like to POOF have a tier 5? YES PLEASE! but its not going to happen. i would rather have something we all worked towards and can look at with pride and know we earned it and we worked as a team to build. perhaps some of you need to point the complaints elsewhere if you have a fleet of more than 4 or 5 active players and you dont feel like you are advancing fast enoough or are lagging behind other fleets your size its not the devs you should be complaining to.
you can earn anywhere from 20-60+ fleet marks from an event. you can earn 100+ marks in one hour quite easily. perhaps your time would be better spent there than fooliong with the officer of the watch. if your fleet is no more dedicated than to do a daily that usually involves shooting one poor lonely BoP or having some ship follow you from the transwarp gate then you dont deserve anything more than you have.
the problem is not the size of your fleet but the dedication of your members how many over 2mil do you have or 1mil or 750k or 500k... if you dont have any or very few who are contributing at those levels then you seriously need to look to those who are not and not the devs for a solution to your problem. the reality is that if you are not happy in your fleet perhaps you are in the wrong fleet.
Wait, you won't do that. Why? Because you think being in a small fleet has benefits you don't want to give up. Well...no-bull! That's the tradeoff!
Weigh your options and make your choice. But this constant clamoring that everything needs to be delivered on a silver platter or else the sky is falling is quite honestly both ridiculous and pathetic.
My character Tsin'xing
No, I'm enlisting a buddy or two to build a small garage for souping up our cars. I don't entertain the faintest whiff of a hope that I will get my entire base up to tier V. All I want for Xmas is a fleet defiant.
My character Tsin'xing
You seem to be great at preserving elitism, but are a TRIBBLE-poor game designer. The size of a social group should be a player choice, not a determination of game advancement. The bases are calculated out, if Cryptic was telling the truth, for a fleet of 25 daily players. That data can then be calculated upwards and downwards according to fleet size. The resource and time sinks will still be as weighty but will no longer be ridiculously easy for large fleets or incredibly insurmountable for small ones. It keeps the system fair (though I doubt you're looking for fair) and keeps people invested in the game, playing and spending cash.
I think in typical Cryptic fashion they totally overestimated their content's engagement. I don't think they expected the fleet mark generation would suffer as much as it did from the clickies going away.
In theory if Fleet marks were not an issue and DIl was... then a lot of people would be willing to spend a little for some DIl here and there. That was the idea t least.
Why wait? Ask a fleet with a T3 shipyard if you can use their vendor.
The system is fair, you just don't happen to like it. The two things are not the same.
No, it's fair for you. Not fair for a majority of players. The two things are not the same.
I don't know if solo players out-number big-fleet-member players... do you have any links to any official player base demographics?
My fleet is medium-sized, and we just absorbed another smaller fleet for the sake of pooling resources and getting more live, long term players in our groups. Our Starbase T3 shipyard just got finished last night. We have perhaps no more than a dozen folks actively contributing to starbase and embassy upgrades. Several of our members actually host podcast shows dedicated to STO. Most of us just quietly play the STO and shoot the breeze on Vent.
Actually it's fair to all players, because all players have the choice of what fleet to join. If you want to be part of a small fleet for what ever reason that's your choice.
Fairness means everyone has the same options, not the same outcomes.
Also you have no way of knowing what the majority of the players think, or the size of their fleet.
This would appear to be the crux of the complaint and it's immediate solution.
The problem with fleet-jumping just to buy tiered equipment is that these fleet items also consume fleet provisions. Fleets have to donate dilithium, DOFFS, EC, time, and lots of other resources to generate these provisions. So, it's a LOT of work... much more than what many small fleets can handle. A larger fleet has more access to more players, thereby pooling their collective resources and benefiting their members at a faster pace.
Some fleets will let you in to purchase fleet items, but they will usually asked to be reimbursed for their resources too. 50k dilithium just to use Fleet vendors is more than reasonable.
Asked and answered, multiple times. I am not willing to abandon the countless hours I've already put into my base, and I don't have 20 hours a week to devote to farming altso so I can experiiment with other fleets.
You could, in theory; temporarily leave your fleet and join a bigger one. Get your fleet ship and come back again. It has been done.
I do understand the provisioning requirements for fleets, as a fleet leader I spend most of my time trying to balance provisions for things. (I would like an option to ration out fleet purchases for this reason as I have seen several members drain all the provisions because they had an excess of credits and dilithium but c'est la vie.)
Some fleets, my own included would be happy to allow that. (The one thing we do have a surplus of, at least for now is fleet ship provisions.) Some for a modest fee.