Small Fleets are dying "Cryptic heres how to save them"

snipe048

Lately lots of the smaller fleets have been doing nothing for their progression such as mine and others have just closed up shop fed up with the excessive grinding needed for fleetmarks.

We need a the officer of the watch to actually give us a reward worth our time, say 50 -60 fleetmarks a day, that would be small help to our fleets. Another way is for a fleetmark exchange or conversion system such as use fleet Credits, or EC, or Dilithium to buy fleetmarks. You already did something like this with Doffs so why can't you do it with Fleetmarks?


Anyone else have a suggestion post it here, maybe one of the devs will see it and get inspired to throw us a bone or two.

foundrelic

Here's a better idea.


First, Shut down the ability to create fleets for a while.


Second, offer an incentive for small fleets to disband into larger fleets, OR create a way for fleets to merge that allows provisions and Fleet EXP to be pooled into the new fleet.

atomictiki

foundrelic wrote: »

Here's a better idea.


First, Shut down the ability to create fleets for a while.


Second, offer an incentive for small fleets to disband into larger fleets, OR create a way for fleets to merge that allows provisions and Fleet EXP to be pooled into the new fleet.

F large fleets. If I wanted to be a nameless faceless number, I'd be in one already. I like(d) my small fleet, we were comrades in arms and it was fun.

stormbringer77

Proportional project costs would be an easy way to revitalise smaller fleets. Let's face it, the prohibitive costs of the projects are what kills fleets. 200,000 Dilithium is nothing for fleets with 200+ ACTIVE members, but if you're in a fleet with only 50 members project costs should be proportional, i.e, 50,000.

No fleet loses out because the rewards are the same for all, with costs per fleet members being the same.

Just my 2 cents worth.

darramouss1

I have a small fleet and wouldn't abandon mine to join a larger one. Why? Because I have already invested FAR too much in to it. To say good bye to it all is something I'm not prepared to do.

That being said, I think I remember reading that balancing measures for small fleets is being considered. I suppose, for now, all we can do is watch for updates...

dariusmajere

Small fleets are NOT supposed to be flying threw projects. This was by design and stated in multiple Q&A's before the launch of season 6. The problem with the small fleets and i had the same issue in my head was that we are trying to keep pace with the big boys. The starbases were not designed that way. A solid group of 50 active players dedicated towards starbase construction was supposed to average 7 months till tier 5. Smaller fleets were supposed to average a YEAR AND A HALF to TWO YEARS to hit tier 5. This was again by design stated by cryptic devs and DStahl. This information has been blatantly out there. Small fleets need to CALM DOWN and STOP trying to keep pace with the big boys out there. We are not supposed to be able to keep up with them. If you are a fleet of 3-5 players, you are not really a fleet.. Your a squad. Blatant truth. Fleets are large groups of people. Sorry if this stings a little. Cryptic has been changing requirements and drop rates to keep with this time frame for fleets. You read the changes in the patch notes as they come out. Alot of us smaller fleets are way above schedule. I know some small fleets unwrapping the shiny tier 4 starbases. Same pace as the big boys. It's called dedication and HARD WORK I know the work thing is a bad thing to state in games, but if all games were simple, quick and easy alot of us would be looking for a challenge somewhere else.

snipe048

I'm not going to reply to flame posts.

We're not asking cryptic to change the fleet system so we can keep up with the big fleets, all we're asking is for cryptic to throw us a bone in getting fleetmarks.

I'll admit i used the 1 click foundry mission on a few alts to get the 50 marks per character, "the dil was nice too but not the deal maker".

Seriously most of the complaints would go away if the officer of the watch rewarded 50 marks. I cannot see how this would break anything.

timelord79

The groups of players in this game are only called "Fleets" because we have a spaceship theme going on here.
In gaming terms we are a Guild. where does it say you need a minimum number beyond 2-3 players to constitute a Guild.
Ok, call it 5 players, minimum number to start one.

A guild is a varying number group of players who joined roster to make it easier to coordinate their mutual interests and activities.
Sometimes because they are friends from real life or the game, sometimes for similar larger picture goals (like the starbase, or rather the exclusive benefits of the guild housing).

If you take the Fleet out of the Guild, having a high number of at least 50 members, starts sounding a bit less reasonable.

It invalidates all the other reasons a bit, because if you are still a small but merry band of friends, you are locked out of the number one endgame achievement for a long time.

If you give in and join a mega fleet, where you are a faceless number and expendable, the guild becomes it's own purpose and you start to "work" for the guild to get a shiney every now and then.
With the current system, Cryptic has not created Guild fleets, they have created Corporate fleets.
Lived Capitalism.

It makes sense, because the whole purpose behind the starbases was to monetize them, so it's kind of natural, that the starbases became Cryptic subsidiaries.

pigeonofclay

Perhaps they should do away with fleets altogether.

In the words of Khan Noonan Singh: "We are one big, happy fleet!".

Combine all fleets into "Star Fleet" and have done with them. Then every member can contribute to adding stuff to existing Starbases and have their ships built at Mars.

:P

dariusmajere

Regardless of how you wish to deem yourself fleets/guilds both are still gaming terms. The fleets are all going ahead of the deemed schedules. People need to stop complaining and be happy. But being a game forum i know that will not occur. Small fleets are way ahead of the time frames curve and should be happy for that. Not complaining for more. Hell only thing that slowed my fleets to a crawl was that bartender assignment... Dropped 120 mil on that idiot only for it to get made rediculously easy recently. Tier requirements got slashed also majorly. Doffs are back to being cheap on the market and fleet mark boosters added, fleet doffs as well now. I have over 3 mil donation on my fed fleet and slightly overr 2 mil on my kdf being the main pushr of our small fleet. I wish we had these requirments when fleets first dropped.i would be well into tier 4! Do your doff assignments use the cxp person on the base. Do the flark events properly hell hit nakura and defra up with the hard missions daily get good quick flarks out of it, use the events to your benefit. It's not rocket science to keep tabs moving. Nor does being in large fleets just make you a number.whether you are building tabs in a large fleet or a small fleet you are still working to get it done. Only you yourself make you a unseen member. If you stand out then you are not just a drone. Just like in real life, you make or break your success and your visibilty.

dariusmajere

pigeonofclay wrote: »

Perhaps they should do away with fleets altogether.

In the words of Khan Noonan Singh: "We are one big, happy fleet!".

Combine all fleets into "Star Fleet" and have done with them. Then every member can contribute to adding stuff to existing Starbases and have their ships built at Mars.

:P

This idea is the best yet. So many people who are captains and vice admirals who so don't deserve that title. I have seen games out there who used a top player basis for a leadership tier. Ship requsitions based on actual merits and player achievements i would totally dig.

snipe048

Why is all of this negativity here?

Seriously making the officer of the watch reward 50 marks instead of 5 WON'T break the game, and frankly it's all I'm asking.

eurialo

dariusmajere wrote: »

If you are a fleet of 3-5 players, you are not really a fleet..

I can agree, I also think that 5 players are not really a fleet... however until 5 players are enough to create a new fleet, it's just an opinion... in the game 5 players can be a fleet.

luxchristian

Because small fleet don't deserve a fast advancement in starbase projects.

Creating AND managing a big fleet is a lot of work. More peoples means more administration , more drama etc. So the fast progression to a T5 starbase is reward for the work.

That's at least my opinion.

I'm in a "big" fleet with over 200 members. But our leader is most of the offline and doesn't really about the managing. Thats why we are just at T3. AND the progression is really slow with all the needed dill, doffs and fleet marks :-) But I don't complain because I know that I always could try to join a more aktive fleet.

hereticknight085

Hey darius, could I ask you to post in slightly more readable fashion? I mean those massive blocks of text are usually full of goodness that I agree with, but I have trouble keeping my place sometimes... so could I ask for a little separation? kthx

Anyways, in response to this, yeah, small fleets are getting a little shafted, but guess what, fleets were not supposed to be small. The devs even said that the starbase system was designed for fleets of 25 or more members. So yeah, if you have fewer than 25 active members, you're gonna suffer a little.

Sorry.

voicesdark

Adding 50 marks to the officer of the watch is like putting a bandage on the blood gushing stump where an are of a leg just got ripped off.

Fact is Cryptic said small fleets while somewhat slower would still be able to advance and why that has never been completely true, they said the fleet system was going to be designed around the average 20 person fleet. Maybe more like 200 person, and now with all the season 7 changes kiss all that goodbye.

simple solution: once a fleetbase hits full tier 2 a fleet has the opportunity to "surrender" their fleetbase for a smaller more utilitarian ground base with very little customization options. The projects would then be the tier 3,4,5 shipyard, comm array, replicator projects and then the main tier upgrade ones, but at smaller fleet restrictions. restrict this option to 50 unique fleet members, and it cannot be undone.

I've already been working on a design proposal for the ground base.

dariusmajere

pigeonofclay wrote: »

Perhaps they should do away with fleets altogether.

In the words of Khan Noonan Singh: "We are one big, happy fleet!".

Combine all fleets into "Star Fleet" and have done with them. Then every member can contribute to adding stuff to existing Starbases and have their ships built at Mars.

:P

hereticknight085 wrote: »

Hey darius, could I ask you to post in slightly more readable fashion? I mean those massive blocks of text are usually full of goodness that I agree with, but I have trouble keeping my place sometimes... so could I ask for a little separation? kthx

Anyways, in response to this, yeah, small fleets are getting a little shafted, but guess what, fleets were not supposed to be small. The devs even said that the starbase system was designed for fleets of 25 or more members. So yeah, if you have fewer than 25 active members, you're gonna suffer a little.

Sorry.

Sorry dude, not on a pc at the moment. It's hard enough as it is getting these damn walls of text out on my nexus 7 lol. These things were not developed for 6'8" people sadly. Normally i try to edit my walls of txt after writing,but on here its a *****

ddesjardins

Fleets are a component of the game, and a financial one for Cryptic. This is a good thing. Players who are part of Guilds, Clans, or in the case of STO 'Fleets' are 40% more likely to spend and stay longer. End of story.

And if fleet marks are your problem, you sir have no idea: wait till you get to Tier Three.

Starbases were never intended to be quick projects that 3 determined players could build on their own. STO was clear on that from the beginning. it. As you developed from 0 to 1, and then started 1 to 2... you could easily see the growth in costs. Math is Hard.

Fleet bases were intended to be long development projects for large groups. For most, it will be 16 months to get to Tier 4. A few are there now, and will cap out their fleet bases. Some even sell access to hard to get ships.

Throughout the process of building a Starbase, you fleet will have ups and downs. New distractions & dilithium sink-holes (reputation?) will appear and your build process will slow. My fleet is no different, we're stuck shy of Tier 3 mostly due to dilithium. It has forced us to be more organized, develop better internal policies and promote players from within.

The reality is that this process should STAY THE SAME. Small fleets will fold. You can carry fleet marks with you to new fleets. No you won't be 'Grand Pooh-Bah of Asteroid 393' any more, but you will contribute to a growing fleet.

hereticknight085

dariusmajere wrote: »

Sorry dude, not on a pc at the moment. It's hard enough as it is getting these damn walls of text out on my nexus 7 lol. These things were not developed for 6'8" people sadly. Normally i try to edit my walls of txt after writing,but on here its a *****

Yeah, meant no disrespect, but it was gettin a little hard to read XD. But I do agree with what you were saying. If your fleet ain't large, don't expect it to be able to keep up with larger ones without some serious devotion on your part.

sollvax

Or automatically split any fleet larger than 50 into fleets of 50

robeasom

I actually agree with the original poster here My Fed character is part of a medium sized fleet and we are about Tier 3. However the KDF sister fleet has the same amount of members but I seem to be the only one that ever added to the starbase so in short I said stuff it. There is no incentive to keep going since the fed one has taken most of the grind for fellow members and since there is no KDF content. the Sister fleets starbase is suffering. I refuse to be the only one to throw my dilitihium into a starbase that quite frankly looks like a ghost town compared to the fed one.

So unless things change for the small type fleets or fleet marks become more plentiful then a lot more small fleets may just not bother either.

dariusmajere

voicesdark wrote: »

Adding 50 marks to the officer of the watch is like putting a bandage on the blood gushing stump where an are of a leg just got ripped off.

Fact is Cryptic said small fleets while somewhat slower would still be able to advance and why that has never been completely true, they said the fleet system was going to be designed around the average 20 person fleet. Maybe more like 200 person, and now with all the season 7 changes kiss all that goodbye.

simple solution: once a fleetbase hits full tier 2 a fleet has the opportunity to "surrender" their fleetbase for a smaller more utilitarian ground base with very little customization options. The projects would then be the tier 3,4,5 shipyard, comm array, replicator projects and then the main tier upgrade ones, but at smaller fleet restrictions. restrict this option to 50 unique fleet members, and it cannot be undone.
I've already been working on a design proposal for the ground base.

The starbase has become even easier to do prior to and after season 7. Doff requirments were butchered, the hell assignments were nerfed. Try as a small fleet of 5 actives gathering 250 rotgut and rales...cost me alone 120 mil , not sure what others payed beforw it got changed to food and drink... Them 20 ec comodities are alot cheaper then then 150k+ ec drinks i had to payfor and farm.
All the costs of the tiers have gone down and made it alot simpler when i was pushing my kdf fleet on my own since the rest cared more for the fed side. I kept it burning easily after the new requirments.
Now if your smart dilithium is quicker to aquire. Even with the reductions in direct stf payout and the fixing of the officer report exploits the only issue i hit was flarks and that was managable by doing the right assignments at the rate time i could pull 300 in an hour of the event. Just need to do some math and use your friendlist or the many chatrooms to get a team up to do it fast and efficient.

Right now with alot of new players coming to the game with the push on multiple sites for season 7 recruitment is very easy. If you choose not to recruit and take advantage of this surge in the player base then don't complaign at not being able to hit goals as well as others. As others have stated these goals were designd for medium to large fleets of active players. This active players were stated as 25-50 more around 50 players spending 2-3 hours per day working on the starbase, this means doffing, flarking, dil and ec grinding.

hereticknight085

The major negative to those changes is that anyone who was stockpiling rotgut and romulan ale now has useless drinks that are worthless on the exchange. Probably the only thing I really got annoyed about involving those changes.

maddog0000doom

sheesh since this post has been flooded with trolls maybe it should be closed.

i get that some of you like big fleets but not all of us and we are not asking to fly through projects just that they are doable like they were with investage off reports.

atleast we could buy dilthium with money so that want as big of an issue.

there is not enough hours in the day to make half decent progress.

i agree with op give us back our quick 50 marks problem solved

dariusmajere

maddog0000doom wrote: »

sheesh since this post has been flooded with trolls maybe it should be closed.

i get that some of you like big fleets but not all of us and we are not asking to fly through projects just that they are doable like they were with investage off reports.

atleast we could buy dilthium with money so that want as big of an issue.

there is not enough hours in the day to make half decent progress.

i agree with op give us back our quick 50 marks problem solved

Not many trolling here actually. Most are telling you how it was designed by cryptic or as small fleet runners ourselves get around the issues. Just because it does not fare in your favor does not mean it is being trolled

sheppardus

They will never change the officer of the watch daily to give 50 fleet marks, for such a small amount of work (1-2mins) if they did do this, 5 people with 5 alts each in the fleet would be able to get 1250 fleet marks within 20 mins, it'd make all fleet mark events irrelevent.

As people have stated before, it is very easy to get fleet marks from exchanging CXP or running events during the bonus hours

snipe048

sheppardus wrote: »

They will never change the officer of the watch daily to give 50 fleet marks, for such a small amount of work (1-2mins) if they did do this, 5 people with 5 alts each in the fleet would be able to get 1250 fleet marks within 20 mins, it'd make all fleet mark events irrelevent.

As people have stated before, it is very easy to get fleet marks from exchanging CXP or running events during the bonus hours

Even so, that doesn't help with ANY of the other requirements for fleet progression, such as dil, doff's, commodities, etc.. but for those of us with lives outside of the game and don't have time to grind fleet events, could still get the marks.

voicesdark

when you have over 300k dilithium between tier 2 projects and embassy projects with another 200k plus to follow right behind that I don't care how much other stuff they cut, they didn't cut the super expense to the small fleets. buying doffs with fleet creds and money from tour wasn't an issue....the cut the relatively small stuff. not all of us have the money or desire to buy mass amounts of dil now that most people are hording dil for rep system.

dariusmajere

snipe048 wrote: »

Even so, that doesn't help with ANY of the other requirements for fleet progression, such as dil, doff's, commodities, etc.. but for those of us with lives outside of the game and don't have time to grind fleet events, could still get the marks.

Mmos are built for people who play the games. If you want something that advances while you deal with real life, get an eve or perpetuum account. Games are developed around a player base with no real lives. Hell even those of us with real lives work with what we got. I am on xmpp for my fleet members and doing the forums while at work currently. If your going to do something do it t, and not half-assed is how i was raised. People are known as fleet leaders for a reason. If you are going to take charge of something you take charge of it, if not then give it to someone who can.

baudl

season 6 is not even a half year old and so much whine about progression already...

it was clear from day one that it would take smaller fleets atleast a year to get past t4 and much more than a year to t5. Thats intentional, you may like or not, but thats how it is designed...long term goals.

dariusmajere

baudl wrote: »

season 6 is not even a half year old and so much whine about progression already...

it was clear from day one that it would take smaller fleets atleast a year to get past t4 and much more than a year to t5. Thats intentional, you may like or not, but thats how it is designed...long term goals.

Yep. Also this mans sig says it all. Go pro or go home.