I disagree, giving away too much easy fleet marks outside of fleet mark events is a bad idea.
It kills the ques and makes it harder to earn fleet marks by actually playing the game.
This in essence is the problem here. People are tired of playing the game. I have friends that have uninstalled the game on the simple factor they actually have to play the game to get somewhere. They can't just log in a do a quick daily. God knows what a company would be thinking by, I don't know, Designing a game to be Played for more then a few minutes a day.
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If you are 10 people building a Military Base, Would you be able to build it as quick as say 100-200 people?
Ten people would not be charged with building a base on their own. Real-world examples are out the window on this. It is a game, subject only to its internal mechanics, and the level of grind doesn't take the habits of the entire player base (not just the big fleets you'd like to pretend are the only ones who matter) into account.
It's simple Common sense,
No, it is your self-important little opinion.
Five people can't build a village in the same time frame Fifty people Can. Same with the Bases.
If they are going to allow small fleets, the game mechanics should allow for them to progress at a less excruciating pace. There is nothing reasonable about saying "You can have your tiny fleet, but you can't expect to actually do anything in a humane amount of time."
God knows what a company would be thinking by, I don't know, Designing a game to be Played for more then a few minutes a day.
Smug, dismissive misrepresentation of the situation. If the thousands of hours and ungodly amounts of resources people are putting into their small fleets won't gain them anything for years, the question must be asked: Why should they bother?
Well sir, Let me be the first to simply state the fact You are bases of liking the idea is biased do to the Fact you Created it :P Of course It's the best Idea here, It is yours :P
See, you DO understand :P j/k. If an idea is suggested that keeps all players happy, yet lets them progress at a reasonable rate (not like tier 5 by tomorrow or anything, but not taking 5 years either), then I'll be happy to support that too. If I think it is better than mine, I'll say so. I'll admit mine has problems, but at least it's fairinstead of shafting those players who prefer to play in a smaller fleet.
Ten people would not be charged with building a base on their own. Real-world examples are out the window on this. It is a game, subject only to its internal mechanics, and the level of grind doesn't take the habits of the entire player base (not just the big fleets you'd like to pretend are the only ones who matter) into account.
No, it is your self-important little opinion.
If they are going to allow small fleets, the game mechanics should allow for them to progress at a less excruciating pace. There is nothing reasonable about saying "You can have your tiny fleet, but you can't expect to actually do anything in a humane amount of time."
I am sorry Sir, Did you not read what you were getting involved in. I am sorry you think I am only about the big fleets, Maybe if you actually Read you will see I am in a SMALL fleet. But I am also not wanting things Reduced for me just because I work with Less people then Others. End game Gear.. and this is all about Gear with the starbases, Should not be obtainable by everyone at the Same Pace. People Complained about hitting Level Cap to quickly and maxing on end game items To quickly. Now you have a situation where you can't get to the End Game Items as Quickly, So you Complain Again. Your Self-Important Little opinion is you should have to do Less then people who go out of there way to do More. My Real world opinion on building a Base is in fact realistic. For the simple Matter this is how Cryptic Stated they designed it. Larger groups of people will Accomplish things quicker then smaller groups. YOU Choose to be small, YOU choose to take longer to build your base because YOU do not want to make the effort to Expand. This is YOUR decision.
If you are in a starbase Closing in on t4 and you are in a small Fleet, You are Ahead of the game and playing Correctly. If you are in a Starbase and tier 3 with a Smaller then 25 fleet, then you are Doing as the Game Designed. If you are Tier 2 and things are slowing to a crawl because you are 5-10 members, then things are Going in the Time Frame that was Laid out before the starbases Dropped. As Designed. Small Fleets are Not Struggling to Complete the Tabs, they are going at the pace... that Was Designed.
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This in essence is the problem here. People are tired of playing the game. I have friends that have uninstalled the game on the simple factor they actually have to play the game to get somewhere. They can't just log in a do a quick daily. God knows what a company would be thinking by, I don't know, Designing a game to be Played for more then a few minutes a day.
It isn't people wanting to do a quick daily though. It is people wanting to remain in their nice, small, friendly fleets, yet still be able to see a return on their investment into the fleet starbase within a reasonable time frame. Cryptic designing the starbase system to be played only by fleets that meet a certain minimum requirement is basically them crapping on smaller fleets from a great height. All they are saying there is 'Yes, you can belong to a small fleet if you want, but this content isn't for you, and that means you can't access the best weapons, the best ships, and arguably the best gear in the game'.
If they do that, they are forcing a split in the player base, and one that will just get wider over time.
Smug, dismissive misrepresentation of the situation. If the thousands of hours and ungodly amounts of resources people are putting into their small fleets won't gain them anything for years, the question must be asked: Why should they bother?[/QUOTE]
If your players were putting in thousands of hours and ungodly amounts of resources into the starbase then you actually would be ahead. Going by the Factor I have clocked 1,340 hours into STO since the launch of Season 5, I have yet to clock hours into multiple of thousands. If I did my small fleet would be tier 4. If you are going to argue and debate, try actually basing some realistically, or at least having something constructive to put in. Otherwise you are just wasting space on the forum page for other players inputs who are giving Actual Input and reasoning. Other then emotional irrelevant opinions. People here are discussing ways to deal and improve upon the situation.
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End game Gear.. and this is all about Gear with the starbases, Should not be obtainable by everyone at the Same Pace.
Nobody is suggesting the exact same pace, nor is that the limit of the alternatives.
Your Self-Important Little opinion is you should have to do Less then people who go out of there way to do More.
No, my opinion is that there is no rationalizing the fact that the same amount of effort grants me little or nothing.
Larger groups of people will Accomplish things quicker then smaller groups.
And that would still be the case if the entire scale were shifted downward.
YOU Choose to be small, YOU choose to take longer to build your base because YOU do not want to make the effort to Expand. This is YOUR decision.
I don't know 100 people who play this game, and I can't spare the logged-in time from the excruciating ****ing grind to go recruiting strangers.
If you are in a starbase Closing in on t4 and you are in a small Fleet, You are Ahead of the game and playing Correctly. If you are in a Starbase and tier 3 with a Smaller then 25 fleet, then you are Doing as the Game Designed. If you are Tier 2 and things are slowing to a crawl because you are 5-10 members, then things are Going in the Time Frame that was Laid out before the starbases Dropped. As Designed. Small Fleets are Not Struggling to Complete the Tabs, they are going at the pace... that Was Designed.
If tiny fleets aren't included in a reasonable amount of time, then tiny fleets should not be allowed. No wall of text rationalization is going to change the fact that Cryptic needs to respond to the demands of their customer base.
It isn't people wanting to do a quick daily though. It is people wanting to remain in their nice, small, friendly fleets, yet still be able to see a return on their investment into the fleet starbase within a reasonable time frame. Cryptic designing the starbase system to be played only by fleets that meet a certain minimum requirement is basically them crapping on smaller fleets from a great height. All they are saying there is 'Yes, you can belong to a small fleet if you want, but this content isn't for you, and that means you can't access the best weapons, the best ships, and arguably the best gear in the game'.
If they do that, they are forcing a split in the player base, and one that will just get wider over time.
But again, it End Game Gear. It should be worked for. People complained that STF's were the dead line for the Game. There was no goals to achieve except for having a fancy costume by aquiring all the mk XII STF gear. Now you have a new goal, One that is created with a set amount of requirements. Cryptic has on multiple occasions Said in STF developments, and story lines, that they build the game towards the larger social groups. This won't change, they do not want to promote the soloist small fleet business. They want the larger groups of people. This is why some items are allowed on the fleet Starbases and some are not. They do not want the players to just hide in there own territories where they only have to deal with there friends. They want them having to go out and branch out and be social. This is why things are Developed this way. Trust me, I would personally rather play a Single Player Game, but in an MMO it doesnt make sense. If you Strip the game down to just small groups you remove the whole Massive Multiplayer Aspect and have just a console Game. They have long terms plans they previously Announced of fleet vs fleet combats, and territory control. The small fleets will be complaining when that comes out that they can not compete once again with the Larger fleets if and when they release the Territory control, they will not be able to hold onto assets. It would hinder them. Cryptic has shown many long term goals they are designing and none of them base around small groups, all around the larger groups.
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If your players were putting in thousands of hours and ungodly amounts of resources into the starbase then you actually would be ahead.
Oh, you know that for a fact, do you? You know how many people are in my fleet? Or maybe you're just talking out of your *** right now.
try actually basing some realistically, or at least having something constructive to put in.
Realistically, my tiny fleet has ground to a virtual halt. Constructively, Cryptic needs to swallow their pride and admit that excessive grind and endless microtransactions are not the path to player satisfaction.
If tiny fleets aren't included in a reasonable amount of time, then tiny fleets should not be allowed. No wall of text rationalization is going to change the fact that Cryptic needs to respond to the demands of their customer base.
They are, the small populus of us Arguing on the forums is barely a fraction compared to what log in. Until more people get onto the forums and Voice there oppinion, things will not change quickly.
The dilithium and Loot got changed Real quick because the majority of the Server Spoke out. There is not alot speaking out on this Thread or on any of the threads regarding Reputation projects or Fleet projects. Until a larger majority do. Changes don't Come quick. Hell there is a larger population demanding more Factions or more KDF content. You see how well that has occured Since the game launch. Every year it gets pushed further out. KDF content has been being requested since Season 1, we are now in 7 and going on 8. Even the romulan faction, many people have been begging for a LONG time for and in decent numbers also. But when the average KDF playerbase is 18-20% and the Fed playerbase is around 80% Nothing for the KDF will occur. Samething with the starbases, If only a few, and you can count how many are on this thread, hell most of us can name the bulk of the forum posters, we are that few. Not much will get changed.
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But again, it End Game Gear. It should be worked for.
Nobody is suggesting they shouldn't have to work for it. That's the cute little false dichotomy fallacy you're trying to float as useful discourse.
If you Strip the game down to just small groups you remove the whole Massive Multiplayer Aspect and have just a console Game.
More pointless false dichotomy BS. The options are not limited to either "only big fleets should get their stuff anytime soon" or "abolish the multiplayer aspect."
Oh, you know that for a fact, do you? You know how many people are in my fleet? Or maybe you're just talking out of your *** right now.
Realistically, my tiny fleet has ground to a virtual halt. Constructively, Cryptic needs to swallow their pride and admit that excessive grind and endless microtransactions are not the path to player satisfaction.
Cryptic won't back off the Microtransaction market, they have even Blunty said since going Free 2 play with a Subscription background, people are still Subbing to the game. They have also Trippled Profits to the point they are able to Expand the STO crew as well as put resources into upcoming developments. Microtransactions are here to stay. Cryptic was one of the games that started with an unheard of Hyrbid model of subscription and microtransaction market. Hell the lock boxes Started before Free 2 play even hit in the winter Event and brought them in Massive cash. It still is and now that they have switched to Free to Play, they are Still bringing in Subs, evident by how many lifetimers you see now active and more people going for the microtransactions. Hell look at the Zen on Exchange, Every zen you see is player Bought, Not seeded by the company. If people were so tired of the way Cryptic is going that exchange would be shrinking. It's not it's growing. More people are buying Zen and putting it on Exchange. The business model they have developed Is working for them the way they want. They have no reason to change this. The best Example I can show is the EVA costume. It branched off of the Account Bound purchase and into Character bound.. AND it was MORE then an account bound Costume. People Bought it in BULK. This is what pushes there business Plans.
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If you are in a small fleet that socialise with each other, but struggle to complete the projects, why not continue to socialise with each other in a larger fleet where many hands make light work?
After looking at the requirements to progress the starbase of the small fleet I was in past tier 1, everyone agreed that as long as we were enjoying playing together, it didn't matter what the fleet name was, or that we would no longer have executive control - reducing our workload and the drain on our resources in exchange for access to better facilities was the logical thing to do. We even got to know some new people which was a nice bonus.
But again, it End Game Gear. It should be worked for. People complained that STF's were the dead line for the Game. There was no goals to achieve except for having a fancy costume by aquiring all the mk XII STF gear. Now you have a new goal, One that is created with a set amount of requirements. Cryptic has on multiple occasions Said in STF developments, and story lines, that they build the game towards the larger social groups. This won't change, they do not want to promote the soloist small fleet business. They want the larger groups of people. This is why some items are allowed on the fleet Starbases and some are not. They do not want the players to just hide in there own territories where they only have to deal with there friends. They want them having to go out and branch out and be social. This is why things are Developed this way. Trust me, I would personally rather play a Single Player Game, but in an MMO it doesnt make sense. If you Strip the game down to just small groups you remove the whole Massive Multiplayer Aspect and have just a console Game. They have long terms plans they previously Announced of fleet vs fleet combats, and territory control. The small fleets will be complaining when that comes out that they can not compete once again with the Larger fleets if and when they release the Territory control, they will not be able to hold onto assets. It would hinder them. Cryptic has shown many long term goals they are designing and none of them base around small groups, all around the larger groups.
No-one is saying it shouldn't be worked for, only that everyone should be able to see a return on the work they are doing within a reasonable time frame. Two and a half years is a vaguely resaonable timeframe to complete a starbase. 5 years or even longer isn't. At the moment, the only way to see the new endgame rewards is to either spend millions which most players don't have (in or out of game), or to join one of the huge fleets, which not everyone likes. Personally, I hate huge fleets. It is difficult to get to know people because the faces are constantly changing, and any contributions you do make are just absorbed by the masses.
Yes, it's an MMO, but since when has MMO meant 'every guild must have 20-50 players MINIMUM to be viable'?
If you are in a small fleet that socialise with each other, but struggle to complete the projects, why not continue to socialise with each other in a larger fleet where many hands make light work?
And in the process, all the work I've put into my own base goes *poof*.
Nobody is suggesting they shouldn't have to work for it. That's the cute little false dichotomy fallacy you're trying to float as useful discourse.
More pointless false dichotomy BS. The options are not limited to either "only big fleets should get their stuff anytime soon" or "abolish the multiplayer aspect."
It's not limited to that, you can do like me and my friends did, Work the game to your advantage, Work the Exchange and the ways you get dilithium to maximize and make your playing period more efficient. We were keeping up with the Larger fleets until we got lazy. Even then it was still moving, just slower. The one thing that Popped our moral was someone Triggered the Damn Bartender project and that just crippled us moving forward. An honest mistake, One that proved Fatal and the destruction of my fleets. BUT Cryptic recently Fixed it so that Grind mission and other versions of the assignment were simplified.
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I'd like there to be a tiered fleet member and contribution requirement system.
I wrote about it in another thread in more detail, but i can't find it now. Anyway the reason standing in the way of contribution requirements not being regulated by fleet member count is that players would certainly organize and exploit it. they would rotate members and breeze through to the top starbase tier with minimal individual investment. I hope the devs can come up with a solution for that and implement a system that is friendlier to small fleets.
They are, the small populus of us Arguing on the forums is barely a fraction compared to what log in. Until more people get onto the forums and Voice there oppinion, things will not change quickly.
The dilithium and Loot got changed Real quick because the majority of the Server Spoke out. There is not alot speaking out on this Thread or on any of the threads regarding Reputation projects or Fleet projects. Until a larger majority do. Changes don't Come quick. Hell there is a larger population demanding more Factions or more KDF content. You see how well that has occured Since the game launch. Every year it gets pushed further out. KDF content has been being requested since Season 1, we are now in 7 and going on 8. Even the romulan faction, many people have been begging for a LONG time for and in decent numbers also. But when the average KDF playerbase is 18-20% and the Fed playerbase is around 80% Nothing for the KDF will occur. Samething with the starbases, If only a few, and you can count how many are on this thread, hell most of us can name the bulk of the forum posters, we are that few. Not much will get changed.
The KDF content is a vicious circle. More people would play it if it was a proper faction with comparable content to the Feds, but they won't put that content in because not enough people play it.
No-one is saying it shouldn't be worked for, only that everyone should be able to see a return on the work they are doing within a reasonable time frame. Two and a half years is a vaguely resaonable timeframe to complete a starbase. 5 years or even longer isn't. At the moment, the only way to see the new endgame rewards is to either spend millions which most players don't have (in or out of game), or to join one of the huge fleets, which not everyone likes. Personally, I hate huge fleets. It is difficult to get to know people because the faces are constantly changing, and any contributions you do make are just absorbed by the masses.
Yes, it's an MMO, but since when has MMO meant 'every guild must have 20-50 players MINIMUM to be viable'?
In this case, when the Company running the MMO Bluntly Said it. Trust me, If you think there is a better MMO out there, try to find out. Hell Lets look at another Sci-Fi themed Game. Star Wars. There Free 2 play model you are completely Crippled on and the Microtransaction model is way more then if you Subbed to the game. Sadly tho, they are now starting to show growth again, And profitability. Just like me, I paid for my Lifetime sub. It has more then paid for itself with the 12 characters on this account alone, then there is my wifes account who plays once in a while as well. She has yet to Lifetime for some unknown reason, but she Pays for her sub per month, and might log on 15 times a month. I know Better then to try to argue with it, Hell I offered to Lifetime her account, but she said no she was happy being gold, again, I know better then to argue with a woman, Logic is not a strong point at times. When they are happy, they are happy, when they are angry.. well, thats when we all are at a bar or elsewhere until the situation calms.
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And in the process, all the work I've put into my own base goes *poof*.
No sale.
You can leave an alt in your own base just in case you change your mind or things don't work out, but you retain all your fleet credits from progress to date when you transfer to a new fleet.
The KDF content is a vicious circle. More people would play it if it was a proper faction with comparable content to the Feds, but they won't put that content in because not enough people play it.
More people would play it if they got rid of that horrid UI color of theres. Many have stated that is the only reason they are not on it more. I love my KDF toons, I own a large majority of the Cstore items the KDF offer.. Can't stand staying on it long. It was a nice touch trying to more Customize the UI for it, But I can't Fking stand it.
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Nope. But it was a nice try to shift to going after my atrocious murder of our language :P
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In this case, when the Company running the MMO Bluntly Said it. Trust me, If you think there is a better MMO out there, try to find out. Hell Lets look at another Sci-Fi themed Game. Star Wars. There Free 2 play model you are completely Crippled on and the Microtransaction model is way more then if you Subbed to the game. Sadly tho, they are now starting to show growth again, And profitability. Just like me, I paid for my Lifetime sub. It has more then paid for itself with the 12 characters on this account alone, then there is my wifes account who plays once in a while as well. She has yet to Lifetime for some unknown reason, but she Pays for her sub per month, and might log on 15 times a month. I know Better then to try to argue with it, Hell I offered to Lifetime her account, but she said no she was happy being gold, again, I know better then to argue with a woman, Logic is not a strong point at times. When they are happy, they are happy, when they are angry.. well, thats when we all are at a bar or elsewhere until the situation calms.
Ha! Well there we agree, it's never wise to upset a woman... Any woman, about anything. You'll pay for it, lol.
I'm Gold, but would upgrade to Lifetime if I had the spare cash, but I don't, so I have to pay monthly.
TOR's F2P model is horrific. I went back to take a look at it, and it made me giggle. One of my characters is a guild leader over there (only one remaining in the guild), but because I'm a 'Premium' player (free, but who bought the game) I don't even have access to the guild bank. Plus having to pay to be able to equip purple loot? Quality...
Back on topic though. It sounds like your small fleets survived basically because you were paying for it. You made some comment earlier about investing 120 million EC into the base in one way or another. How many people have that kind of money? Compared to the STO player base, probably about the same fraction that visits the forums. Namely, not many. So while you could support a small fleet base like that, no way can everyone, and it is those people who are feeling shafted the worst right now.
I'm impressed you've managed to play the exchange or whatever to make that much, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect everyone to have the time or patience to be able to do that. Yes, it might make building your starbase a bit more viable, but what if you can only log in every few days? You corner the market in something, repost everything on the exchange, then 2 days later you log in to discover that someone has undercut you and you've made nothing.
Also, 1300+ hours since S5? That is a hell of a lot of time considering S5 has only been out a year. Excluding weekends, that is 5 hours per day. If I was spending 5 hours per day playing, I'm sure I could do a lot in that time too, but not many people have that much time.
Condescending people should at least use decent grammar.
So, how is this helping with fixing the Fleet requirements by going after how I type? Have you lost your ability to be civilized in the ways of dealing with the issue? I mean the Thread has fallen down to me and you and for the most part instead of showing ways to improve the situation you have just complained of the situation. I am guessing you ran out of words to say and have no actual ways to improve the situation.
But back onto Topic with the Addition of Fleet based Duty officers pack to help the fleets in there role, Maybe Cryptic Should put out a C-Store varient of a Fleet mark Booster. I know you can purchase the fleet mark boosters now from the Starbase, you can also Buy truck loads of Duty officers out of the starbase cheaply for fleet credits instead of having to drain Energy Credits. I have done it often and kept around 50K fleet Credits as my balance considering the ships I want are on average 20k Credits. So ontop of the fleet DOFF's the Starbase's Fleet Mark Booster and the Fleet Mark Event, Maybe how they have the XP Booster in the C-Store they add a additional Fleet mark booster you can purchase to help the fleets. Doffs in my opinion are fine because the Credits you get out of the fleet base can Purchase White doffs at 500 credits Each. Throw the ones you do not need on the Exchange to convert into EC.
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His grammar is only partially his fault. He is trying to post from some mobile phone which is apparently TRIBBLE at such things.
Oh god no, I am thankfully back home and on my Gaming Rig. I would not be able to hammer out such quick replies if I was on the ipad or my nexus 7 which I use at work. My Grammar is just naturally horrible. But Personally I think if you can get your point across, you got your point across. Only until he ran into a dead end has he started to go after it, no one else has :P It's a deflecting way of admitting defeat
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F large fleets. If I wanted to be a nameless faceless number, I'd be in one already. I like(d) my small fleet, we were comrades in arms and it was fun.
Here here. Fortunately, our small fleet is going strong thanks to the nutter-esc capability of some of our players.
Saying that, I don't think the rewards should be increased by that much. Small fleets should not be able to easily get to tier 5 - otherwise what's the point?
Actually no, again this is coming from someone who pushed two small fleets. If you are 10 people building a Military Base, Would you be able to build it as quick as say 100-200 people? No, you would not. Sure you will put in more effort to get it done, but you would still not have the material gathering nor the manpower to be as efficient time wise as a larger group constructing it. This is how the Starbases are designed. The factor that you do not or can not grow your fleet, or grind as hard to get the same materials for your base does not mean you should be on the same playing field as a group that is. There would be no incentive for people to Grow there fleets if they wanted to in this case. Just the same as sadly, if your are in a smaller fleet many people will not see the incentive to be in one. But the closer personal relationship you have with your player base would be why people like the smaller fleet Size. There Stay small and family like mindset should not Cripple the Industrious fleets out there. If they are able to maintain fleet size and keep fleet politics together that things are getting accomplished, people feel they are being treated fairly and like they way things are going, they should not be put onto the same field as a small fleet.
This is not Biased against small Fleets, It's simple Common sense, More manpower = More things get done. This is a realistic Concept in life. Five people can't build a village in the same time frame Fifty people Can. Same with the Bases.
This is exactly why a smaller base for smaller fleets and a larger one with more options for a larger fleet makes perfect sense. Hell the basic layout of the Utopia Plainitia Shipyard map with a comms building added to the left and a shuttle/ship bay to the left and everything else in between....small, functional what more do you need??
Personally I agree that smaller fleets should be able to do it as fast or in the case of my idea have all these options for customizing the base, but at the same time our progress as smaller fleets shouldn't be bottle necked as much or completely stalled, just because we don't want to abandon all our hard work up to whatever point we're at just to join a large fleet.
Maybe what we really need if two different sized bases isn't the solution is some type of in-game fleet recruitment board near the fleet ambassador. I don't mean he list of fleets that we have now, but the fleet owner or second in charge can only give a brief description of the fleet with who to contact for more information. These messages should only stay active for 2 weeks or maybe a month before they are automatically removed and have to be reposted. it would cut down on fleet recruitment in zone chat and hopefully the mega monster fleets that don't care about anything more than just numbers will be less appealing if people can see that there are many smaller fleets looking for quality people.
(NOT saying that all mega monster fleets don't care about their members, but lets face it we can all think of probably 1 or 2 that are completely in it for the bragging rights)
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This in essence is the problem here. People are tired of playing the game. I have friends that have uninstalled the game on the simple factor they actually have to play the game to get somewhere. They can't just log in a do a quick daily. God knows what a company would be thinking by, I don't know, Designing a game to be Played for more then a few minutes a day.
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Ten people would not be charged with building a base on their own. Real-world examples are out the window on this. It is a game, subject only to its internal mechanics, and the level of grind doesn't take the habits of the entire player base (not just the big fleets you'd like to pretend are the only ones who matter) into account.
No, it is your self-important little opinion.
If they are going to allow small fleets, the game mechanics should allow for them to progress at a less excruciating pace. There is nothing reasonable about saying "You can have your tiny fleet, but you can't expect to actually do anything in a humane amount of time."
Smug, dismissive misrepresentation of the situation. If the thousands of hours and ungodly amounts of resources people are putting into their small fleets won't gain them anything for years, the question must be asked: Why should they bother?
See, you DO understand :P j/k. If an idea is suggested that keeps all players happy, yet lets them progress at a reasonable rate (not like tier 5 by tomorrow or anything, but not taking 5 years either), then I'll be happy to support that too. If I think it is better than mine, I'll say so. I'll admit mine has problems, but at least it's fairinstead of shafting those players who prefer to play in a smaller fleet.
I am sorry Sir, Did you not read what you were getting involved in. I am sorry you think I am only about the big fleets, Maybe if you actually Read you will see I am in a SMALL fleet. But I am also not wanting things Reduced for me just because I work with Less people then Others. End game Gear.. and this is all about Gear with the starbases, Should not be obtainable by everyone at the Same Pace. People Complained about hitting Level Cap to quickly and maxing on end game items To quickly. Now you have a situation where you can't get to the End Game Items as Quickly, So you Complain Again. Your Self-Important Little opinion is you should have to do Less then people who go out of there way to do More. My Real world opinion on building a Base is in fact realistic. For the simple Matter this is how Cryptic Stated they designed it. Larger groups of people will Accomplish things quicker then smaller groups. YOU Choose to be small, YOU choose to take longer to build your base because YOU do not want to make the effort to Expand. This is YOUR decision.
If you are in a starbase Closing in on t4 and you are in a small Fleet, You are Ahead of the game and playing Correctly. If you are in a Starbase and tier 3 with a Smaller then 25 fleet, then you are Doing as the Game Designed. If you are Tier 2 and things are slowing to a crawl because you are 5-10 members, then things are Going in the Time Frame that was Laid out before the starbases Dropped. As Designed. Small Fleets are Not Struggling to Complete the Tabs, they are going at the pace... that Was Designed.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
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It isn't people wanting to do a quick daily though. It is people wanting to remain in their nice, small, friendly fleets, yet still be able to see a return on their investment into the fleet starbase within a reasonable time frame. Cryptic designing the starbase system to be played only by fleets that meet a certain minimum requirement is basically them crapping on smaller fleets from a great height. All they are saying there is 'Yes, you can belong to a small fleet if you want, but this content isn't for you, and that means you can't access the best weapons, the best ships, and arguably the best gear in the game'.
If they do that, they are forcing a split in the player base, and one that will just get wider over time.
If your players were putting in thousands of hours and ungodly amounts of resources into the starbase then you actually would be ahead. Going by the Factor I have clocked 1,340 hours into STO since the launch of Season 5, I have yet to clock hours into multiple of thousands. If I did my small fleet would be tier 4. If you are going to argue and debate, try actually basing some realistically, or at least having something constructive to put in. Otherwise you are just wasting space on the forum page for other players inputs who are giving Actual Input and reasoning. Other then emotional irrelevant opinions. People here are discussing ways to deal and improve upon the situation.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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Nobody is suggesting the exact same pace, nor is that the limit of the alternatives.
No, my opinion is that there is no rationalizing the fact that the same amount of effort grants me little or nothing.
And that would still be the case if the entire scale were shifted downward.
I don't know 100 people who play this game, and I can't spare the logged-in time from the excruciating ****ing grind to go recruiting strangers.
If tiny fleets aren't included in a reasonable amount of time, then tiny fleets should not be allowed. No wall of text rationalization is going to change the fact that Cryptic needs to respond to the demands of their customer base.
But again, it End Game Gear. It should be worked for. People complained that STF's were the dead line for the Game. There was no goals to achieve except for having a fancy costume by aquiring all the mk XII STF gear. Now you have a new goal, One that is created with a set amount of requirements. Cryptic has on multiple occasions Said in STF developments, and story lines, that they build the game towards the larger social groups. This won't change, they do not want to promote the soloist small fleet business. They want the larger groups of people. This is why some items are allowed on the fleet Starbases and some are not. They do not want the players to just hide in there own territories where they only have to deal with there friends. They want them having to go out and branch out and be social. This is why things are Developed this way. Trust me, I would personally rather play a Single Player Game, but in an MMO it doesnt make sense. If you Strip the game down to just small groups you remove the whole Massive Multiplayer Aspect and have just a console Game. They have long terms plans they previously Announced of fleet vs fleet combats, and territory control. The small fleets will be complaining when that comes out that they can not compete once again with the Larger fleets if and when they release the Territory control, they will not be able to hold onto assets. It would hinder them. Cryptic has shown many long term goals they are designing and none of them base around small groups, all around the larger groups.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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Oh, you know that for a fact, do you? You know how many people are in my fleet? Or maybe you're just talking out of your *** right now.
Realistically, my tiny fleet has ground to a virtual halt. Constructively, Cryptic needs to swallow their pride and admit that excessive grind and endless microtransactions are not the path to player satisfaction.
They are, the small populus of us Arguing on the forums is barely a fraction compared to what log in. Until more people get onto the forums and Voice there oppinion, things will not change quickly.
The dilithium and Loot got changed Real quick because the majority of the Server Spoke out. There is not alot speaking out on this Thread or on any of the threads regarding Reputation projects or Fleet projects. Until a larger majority do. Changes don't Come quick. Hell there is a larger population demanding more Factions or more KDF content. You see how well that has occured Since the game launch. Every year it gets pushed further out. KDF content has been being requested since Season 1, we are now in 7 and going on 8. Even the romulan faction, many people have been begging for a LONG time for and in decent numbers also. But when the average KDF playerbase is 18-20% and the Fed playerbase is around 80% Nothing for the KDF will occur. Samething with the starbases, If only a few, and you can count how many are on this thread, hell most of us can name the bulk of the forum posters, we are that few. Not much will get changed.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
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Nobody is suggesting they shouldn't have to work for it. That's the cute little false dichotomy fallacy you're trying to float as useful discourse.
More pointless false dichotomy BS. The options are not limited to either "only big fleets should get their stuff anytime soon" or "abolish the multiplayer aspect."
Cryptic won't back off the Microtransaction market, they have even Blunty said since going Free 2 play with a Subscription background, people are still Subbing to the game. They have also Trippled Profits to the point they are able to Expand the STO crew as well as put resources into upcoming developments. Microtransactions are here to stay. Cryptic was one of the games that started with an unheard of Hyrbid model of subscription and microtransaction market. Hell the lock boxes Started before Free 2 play even hit in the winter Event and brought them in Massive cash. It still is and now that they have switched to Free to Play, they are Still bringing in Subs, evident by how many lifetimers you see now active and more people going for the microtransactions. Hell look at the Zen on Exchange, Every zen you see is player Bought, Not seeded by the company. If people were so tired of the way Cryptic is going that exchange would be shrinking. It's not it's growing. More people are buying Zen and putting it on Exchange. The business model they have developed Is working for them the way they want. They have no reason to change this. The best Example I can show is the EVA costume. It branched off of the Account Bound purchase and into Character bound.. AND it was MORE then an account bound Costume. People Bought it in BULK. This is what pushes there business Plans.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
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If you are in a small fleet that socialise with each other, but struggle to complete the projects, why not continue to socialise with each other in a larger fleet where many hands make light work?
After looking at the requirements to progress the starbase of the small fleet I was in past tier 1, everyone agreed that as long as we were enjoying playing together, it didn't matter what the fleet name was, or that we would no longer have executive control - reducing our workload and the drain on our resources in exchange for access to better facilities was the logical thing to do. We even got to know some new people which was a nice bonus.
No-one is saying it shouldn't be worked for, only that everyone should be able to see a return on the work they are doing within a reasonable time frame. Two and a half years is a vaguely resaonable timeframe to complete a starbase. 5 years or even longer isn't. At the moment, the only way to see the new endgame rewards is to either spend millions which most players don't have (in or out of game), or to join one of the huge fleets, which not everyone likes. Personally, I hate huge fleets. It is difficult to get to know people because the faces are constantly changing, and any contributions you do make are just absorbed by the masses.
Yes, it's an MMO, but since when has MMO meant 'every guild must have 20-50 players MINIMUM to be viable'?
And in the process, all the work I've put into my own base goes *poof*.
No sale.
It's not limited to that, you can do like me and my friends did, Work the game to your advantage, Work the Exchange and the ways you get dilithium to maximize and make your playing period more efficient. We were keeping up with the Larger fleets until we got lazy. Even then it was still moving, just slower. The one thing that Popped our moral was someone Triggered the Damn Bartender project and that just crippled us moving forward. An honest mistake, One that proved Fatal and the destruction of my fleets. BUT Cryptic recently Fixed it so that Grind mission and other versions of the assignment were simplified.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
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I wrote about it in another thread in more detail, but i can't find it now. Anyway the reason standing in the way of contribution requirements not being regulated by fleet member count is that players would certainly organize and exploit it. they would rotate members and breeze through to the top starbase tier with minimal individual investment. I hope the devs can come up with a solution for that and implement a system that is friendlier to small fleets.
The KDF content is a vicious circle. More people would play it if it was a proper faction with comparable content to the Feds, but they won't put that content in because not enough people play it.
In this case, when the Company running the MMO Bluntly Said it. Trust me, If you think there is a better MMO out there, try to find out. Hell Lets look at another Sci-Fi themed Game. Star Wars. There Free 2 play model you are completely Crippled on and the Microtransaction model is way more then if you Subbed to the game. Sadly tho, they are now starting to show growth again, And profitability. Just like me, I paid for my Lifetime sub. It has more then paid for itself with the 12 characters on this account alone, then there is my wifes account who plays once in a while as well. She has yet to Lifetime for some unknown reason, but she Pays for her sub per month, and might log on 15 times a month. I know Better then to try to argue with it, Hell I offered to Lifetime her account, but she said no she was happy being gold, again, I know better then to argue with a woman, Logic is not a strong point at times. When they are happy, they are happy, when they are angry.. well, thats when we all are at a bar or elsewhere until the situation calms.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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You can leave an alt in your own base just in case you change your mind or things don't work out, but you retain all your fleet credits from progress to date when you transfer to a new fleet.
More people would play it if they got rid of that horrid UI color of theres. Many have stated that is the only reason they are not on it more. I love my KDF toons, I own a large majority of the Cstore items the KDF offer.. Can't stand staying on it long. It was a nice touch trying to more Customize the UI for it, But I can't Fking stand it.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
Read it, learn it, use it.
Nope. But it was a nice try to shift to going after my atrocious murder of our language :P
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
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Condescending people should at least use decent grammar.
Ha! Well there we agree, it's never wise to upset a woman... Any woman, about anything. You'll pay for it, lol.
I'm Gold, but would upgrade to Lifetime if I had the spare cash, but I don't, so I have to pay monthly.
TOR's F2P model is horrific. I went back to take a look at it, and it made me giggle. One of my characters is a guild leader over there (only one remaining in the guild), but because I'm a 'Premium' player (free, but who bought the game) I don't even have access to the guild bank. Plus having to pay to be able to equip purple loot? Quality...
Back on topic though. It sounds like your small fleets survived basically because you were paying for it. You made some comment earlier about investing 120 million EC into the base in one way or another. How many people have that kind of money? Compared to the STO player base, probably about the same fraction that visits the forums. Namely, not many. So while you could support a small fleet base like that, no way can everyone, and it is those people who are feeling shafted the worst right now.
I'm impressed you've managed to play the exchange or whatever to make that much, but I don't think it is reasonable to expect everyone to have the time or patience to be able to do that. Yes, it might make building your starbase a bit more viable, but what if you can only log in every few days? You corner the market in something, repost everything on the exchange, then 2 days later you log in to discover that someone has undercut you and you've made nothing.
Also, 1300+ hours since S5? That is a hell of a lot of time considering S5 has only been out a year. Excluding weekends, that is 5 hours per day. If I was spending 5 hours per day playing, I'm sure I could do a lot in that time too, but not many people have that much time.
I'll be fair...
His grammar is only partially his fault. He is trying to post from some mobile phone which is apparently TRIBBLE at such things.
So, how is this helping with fixing the Fleet requirements by going after how I type? Have you lost your ability to be civilized in the ways of dealing with the issue? I mean the Thread has fallen down to me and you and for the most part instead of showing ways to improve the situation you have just complained of the situation. I am guessing you ran out of words to say and have no actual ways to improve the situation.
But back onto Topic with the Addition of Fleet based Duty officers pack to help the fleets in there role, Maybe Cryptic Should put out a C-Store varient of a Fleet mark Booster. I know you can purchase the fleet mark boosters now from the Starbase, you can also Buy truck loads of Duty officers out of the starbase cheaply for fleet credits instead of having to drain Energy Credits. I have done it often and kept around 50K fleet Credits as my balance considering the ships I want are on average 20k Credits. So ontop of the fleet DOFF's the Starbase's Fleet Mark Booster and the Fleet Mark Event, Maybe how they have the XP Booster in the C-Store they add a additional Fleet mark booster you can purchase to help the fleets. Doffs in my opinion are fine because the Credits you get out of the fleet base can Purchase White doffs at 500 credits Each. Throw the ones you do not need on the Exchange to convert into EC.
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
Proud Listener of Subspace-Radio.net The Voice of Star Trek Online.
[SIGPIC]http://massivechaos.enjin.com/[/SIGPIC]
Oh god no, I am thankfully back home and on my Gaming Rig. I would not be able to hammer out such quick replies if I was on the ipad or my nexus 7 which I use at work. My Grammar is just naturally horrible. But Personally I think if you can get your point across, you got your point across. Only until he ran into a dead end has he started to go after it, no one else has :P It's a deflecting way of admitting defeat
Proud Leader of the Massive Chaos Group
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Here here. Fortunately, our small fleet is going strong thanks to the nutter-esc capability of some of our players.
Saying that, I don't think the rewards should be increased by that much. Small fleets should not be able to easily get to tier 5 - otherwise what's the point?
This is exactly why a smaller base for smaller fleets and a larger one with more options for a larger fleet makes perfect sense. Hell the basic layout of the Utopia Plainitia Shipyard map with a comms building added to the left and a shuttle/ship bay to the left and everything else in between....small, functional what more do you need??
Personally I agree that smaller fleets should be able to do it as fast or in the case of my idea have all these options for customizing the base, but at the same time our progress as smaller fleets shouldn't be bottle necked as much or completely stalled, just because we don't want to abandon all our hard work up to whatever point we're at just to join a large fleet.
Maybe what we really need if two different sized bases isn't the solution is some type of in-game fleet recruitment board near the fleet ambassador. I don't mean he list of fleets that we have now, but the fleet owner or second in charge can only give a brief description of the fleet with who to contact for more information. These messages should only stay active for 2 weeks or maybe a month before they are automatically removed and have to be reposted. it would cut down on fleet recruitment in zone chat and hopefully the mega monster fleets that don't care about anything more than just numbers will be less appealing if people can see that there are many smaller fleets looking for quality people.
(NOT saying that all mega monster fleets don't care about their members, but lets face it we can all think of probably 1 or 2 that are completely in it for the bragging rights)