Personally, I *love* it when people find often very creative ways to tank. Some of these methods have become common practice now, so it's easy to forget what ingenuity fueled the original setups.
And it's really sad some devs watch what people come up with, only so they can nerf it (and no, I'm not even talking about the Borg set). And for me, that's a sure game-killer. It's like some dev looking over your shoulder, saying: "I love it how you all get creative and find ways to tank we never even anticipated! But should your setup ever get successful, we will nerf you!" Because then I'm like: Why even bother?
N.B. Out of curiosity, what's the alleged issue with flow capacitors? I have 9 points in them. And other than siphon energy working better, and my Assimilated Tractor Beam draining a bit more, this is the first time I've heard someone refer to flow capacitors being some sort of problem.
Flow cap boosts the level of healing given by both borg procs as well as BFI doffs.
The borg retro is achievable via 1.5 round of STFs... assuming you don't get a few lucky chip roles. lol I don't know about you but I have put a retro borg set on my newly leveled toons in a total of about 40 min of play time.
Yes though your right... the borg set nerfing will KILL the game... lol Cause it didn't exist for 2 years prior to the borg sets release. lmao
I wasn't talking about the current Borg set, silly. I was talking about potentially new and better gear to strive for in general. You know, the better kind we won't be getting if you get your way.
So instead of them fixing the defects first to see how the survivability affects escorts, they further nerf a working set that has already been nerfed instead of waiting to see how it performs after the bfi doff nerf. Again, cryptic missing the mark and why I am not surprised.
Thanks for the info.
Good thing I have 9 points in Shield Emitters too.
Sure, the retro borg set has a nifty, "OP" proc, and it's "OP" because everyone uses it...
Is it? As I just heard someone say in a thread about Flow Capacitors, that's like reasoning "Everyone in an Escort uses DHCs, therefore DHCs are clearly OP!"
But what else would you expect? The majority of people will always use what's "best" for a particular situation..
Exactemundo. Seeking the optimum, in and by itself, is never alone reason enough to call something overpowered -- even if everyone uses the same thing.
I wasn't talking about the current Borg set, silly. I was talking about potentially new and better gear to strive for in general. You know, the better kind we won't be getting if you get your way.
Well as someone who likes PvP and PvP only... I can say that gear that is > = TRIBBLE games.
Every game ever that has gear that is designed to be Uber... end up ghost towns pretty quick.
This one perhaps would survive anyway off RP player revenue.
I am not saying that based on my own lack of gear. As far as PvP goes (which is frankly all I give 2 shakes about)... as soon as Devs start releasing uber gear what happens is power creep like there is no tommorow. 2 months down the line new players are only 2 months behind... however 2 months after that and another new set later... and new players are now 4 months behind... ect ect... never ending circle.
Cryptic has already started down that road with lockbox ships yes that is true. However I think Cryptic would rather try to keep gear as balanced as can be possible to keep that issue from popping up.
It is why I am against PvP gear of anykind... PvP gear destroys games no question. New players either feel they can't compete (sometimes not justified sometimes very justified) with players that have ground out there uber gear... and in some games (Rift before they toned it down) you could litterly be grinding (loosing a LOT) for months before your caught up to the players that started before you. The sets have been tolerable in STO because they are mostly easy to acquire.... there is no set in this game you can't get a mk xi version of in one day... mk xii if your lucky as quickly. Upcoming sets will be no harder to aquire... and if they are and they start the slippery slop that is UBER gear... whats left of this games pvp will die in weeks... and to be honest All but the RP PvE players will be gone 4 months later.
I'm sorry but there is NOT one set in this game at this moment that is so hard to aquire that it deserves > stats... yet one set does have > stats (because currently you can ditch the one piece that doesn't have > stats).... forcing the use of the entire set is a good move.
I understand that you and I don't agree on that and obviously never will... anyway don't worry they people that work for Cryptic mostly agree with me... so its all good. lol
Is it? As I just heard someone say in a thread about Flow Capacitors, that's like reasoning "Everyone in an Escort uses DHCs, therefore DHCs are clearly OP!"
Well yes frankly they are OP....
But the talk around that has mostly revolved around buffs to regular DC... as they have no real point.
I understand that you and I don't agree on that and obviously never will... anyway don't worry they people that work for Cryptic mostly agree with me... so its all good. lol
If the advent of lockboxes and other P2W items are any indication, then someone may be grossly overestimating his own importance and influence.
Exactemundo. Seeking the optimum, in and by itself, is never alone reason enough to call something overpowered -- even if everyone uses the same thing.
Yes you are correct... that is not the only thing a dev should look at when determining if a skill or item is OP.
However it is a good indicator....
Yes everyone uses EPTS... frankly it is OP
Yes everyone uses DHC... ditto OP
Yes everyone uses a min of 2 piece borg... Yes OP
Yes most people run BFI doffs... yes there OP.
Yes Everyone uses tac team... yes its OP.
Of course you can't simply say everyone runs it so its over powered. However you can take that as a reason to look at it... BFI doffs are a no brainer... parse any match / map that has someone useing bfi doffs and it becomes clear quickly that they account for over 50% of ALL healing. So they are obviously an issue.
EPTS... yes it boosts Resist 22.5% for 30 seconds, in its version 1... that is a bit to much to be honest... however the game is mostly designed around that and changing every DPS skill and every NPC is likely to much of a headache to fix... so likely Cryptic will leave it be. (still it could be done... they could remove the +18 bonus from version 1... and the higher ones from the other versons and boost natural resist from shield power by 1 per 4 points... meaning shields at 50 power would gaing 12.5% natural resist... and at 100 an extra 25 over what they have now.... possible but unlikely they correct epts)
Tac Team... ya everyone knows why its OP... 10 seconds of tactial buff clearing vs 5 seconds from every other flavor of team... is badly designed. The shield spin... yes people went from doing 20-40% of there Entire DPS to hull.... to a game where 5-10% of total dmg hits hull... yes it completely upended the balance for DPS to Healing skills... they will likely do something to this one... who knows what/
So those are the things that I think almost everyone will agree are OP... and yes they are things most everyone uses. Cryptic can pull up metrics anytime they want... seeing that 95% of players use one set tells them something have no doubt. lol
At the risk of re-igniting the flames, allow me to attempt to explain the reasoning behind this change...
/snip
The issue with this that you intended for the borg set to be an end game set, but the low shield capacity doesn't allow it to be an end game set considering the spike damage you mentioned. That is why 2pc and 3pc sets with non-borg shields were being used.
Now, you have restored your original intentions with the set by making it a total of 3 pieces. However, it is still not an end game set due to the low shield capacity due to your nerf a couple months back
If anything, you should leave it a 3pc set, but restore the original pre-nerf abilities from a couple months ago.
Note also that the borg shields only have a 15% plasma resist compared to other STF sets.. if this is an end game set, then it should probably match.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
The retro set is now 3pc, Deflector, impulse, and shield, 2pc Hull heal 3pc SHield heal AND Tractor.
Now first we are losing the ability to run a good shield in combination with this heal. 2nd, We are losing the ability to run 2pc borg with 2 pc anything else. I think the consol should remain part of this set, and an alternative make it also include in the (dreadful) weapon set.
Dont believe me? Look.
This change is not good, focus on BOOSTING MACO and Omega Not nerfing Borg.
This is a post generaly recapping what most ppl will think when this goes live,
EDIT: I use regnerative shields, this change hits me very little compared to most ppl in STO.
i agree they should have boosted the MACO and OMEGA set instead of nerfing borg set,shame on you cryptic
I'm starting to think these changes don't go far enough but are a step in the right direction. Perhaps moving the tractor beam to 2 pc bonus and making both the shield and hull regen need the 3 pc would better balance these things. If this is not done we will still see people run the deflector and engines with MACO shields for 2pc hull heal bonus. Make people use the borg shield if they want to have the heal bonuses.
Comments
Flow cap boosts the level of healing given by both borg procs as well as BFI doffs.
I wasn't talking about the current Borg set, silly. I was talking about potentially new and better gear to strive for in general. You know, the better kind we won't be getting if you get your way.
Thanks for the info.
Good thing I have 9 points in Shield Emitters too.
Is it? As I just heard someone say in a thread about Flow Capacitors, that's like reasoning "Everyone in an Escort uses DHCs, therefore DHCs are clearly OP!"
Exactemundo. Seeking the optimum, in and by itself, is never alone reason enough to call something overpowered -- even if everyone uses the same thing.
Well as someone who likes PvP and PvP only... I can say that gear that is > = TRIBBLE games.
Every game ever that has gear that is designed to be Uber... end up ghost towns pretty quick.
This one perhaps would survive anyway off RP player revenue.
I am not saying that based on my own lack of gear. As far as PvP goes (which is frankly all I give 2 shakes about)... as soon as Devs start releasing uber gear what happens is power creep like there is no tommorow. 2 months down the line new players are only 2 months behind... however 2 months after that and another new set later... and new players are now 4 months behind... ect ect... never ending circle.
Cryptic has already started down that road with lockbox ships yes that is true. However I think Cryptic would rather try to keep gear as balanced as can be possible to keep that issue from popping up.
It is why I am against PvP gear of anykind... PvP gear destroys games no question. New players either feel they can't compete (sometimes not justified sometimes very justified) with players that have ground out there uber gear... and in some games (Rift before they toned it down) you could litterly be grinding (loosing a LOT) for months before your caught up to the players that started before you. The sets have been tolerable in STO because they are mostly easy to acquire.... there is no set in this game you can't get a mk xi version of in one day... mk xii if your lucky as quickly. Upcoming sets will be no harder to aquire... and if they are and they start the slippery slop that is UBER gear... whats left of this games pvp will die in weeks... and to be honest All but the RP PvE players will be gone 4 months later.
I'm sorry but there is NOT one set in this game at this moment that is so hard to aquire that it deserves > stats... yet one set does have > stats (because currently you can ditch the one piece that doesn't have > stats).... forcing the use of the entire set is a good move.
I understand that you and I don't agree on that and obviously never will... anyway don't worry they people that work for Cryptic mostly agree with me... so its all good.
Well yes frankly they are OP....
But the talk around that has mostly revolved around buffs to regular DC... as they have no real point.
If the advent of lockboxes and other P2W items are any indication, then someone may be grossly overestimating his own importance and influence.
Yes you are correct... that is not the only thing a dev should look at when determining if a skill or item is OP.
However it is a good indicator....
Yes everyone uses EPTS... frankly it is OP
Yes everyone uses DHC... ditto OP
Yes everyone uses a min of 2 piece borg... Yes OP
Yes most people run BFI doffs... yes there OP.
Yes Everyone uses tac team... yes its OP.
Of course you can't simply say everyone runs it so its over powered. However you can take that as a reason to look at it... BFI doffs are a no brainer... parse any match / map that has someone useing bfi doffs and it becomes clear quickly that they account for over 50% of ALL healing. So they are obviously an issue.
EPTS... yes it boosts Resist 22.5% for 30 seconds, in its version 1... that is a bit to much to be honest... however the game is mostly designed around that and changing every DPS skill and every NPC is likely to much of a headache to fix... so likely Cryptic will leave it be. (still it could be done... they could remove the +18 bonus from version 1... and the higher ones from the other versons and boost natural resist from shield power by 1 per 4 points... meaning shields at 50 power would gaing 12.5% natural resist... and at 100 an extra 25 over what they have now.... possible but unlikely they correct epts)
Tac Team... ya everyone knows why its OP... 10 seconds of tactial buff clearing vs 5 seconds from every other flavor of team... is badly designed. The shield spin... yes people went from doing 20-40% of there Entire DPS to hull.... to a game where 5-10% of total dmg hits hull... yes it completely upended the balance for DPS to Healing skills... they will likely do something to this one... who knows what/
So those are the things that I think almost everyone will agree are OP... and yes they are things most everyone uses. Cryptic can pull up metrics anytime they want... seeing that 95% of players use one set tells them something have no doubt. lol
Ya they don't listen to the PvP devs either... probaly a good reason the game has been through 4 or 5 of them since launch. lol
Indeed it is and always has been about the $$$ at the end of the day. Doesn't mean I have to approve.
DCs are better than DHCs if you are only running 1 Turret.
That is all.
The issue with this that you intended for the borg set to be an end game set, but the low shield capacity doesn't allow it to be an end game set considering the spike damage you mentioned. That is why 2pc and 3pc sets with non-borg shields were being used.
Now, you have restored your original intentions with the set by making it a total of 3 pieces. However, it is still not an end game set due to the low shield capacity due to your nerf a couple months back
If anything, you should leave it a 3pc set, but restore the original pre-nerf abilities from a couple months ago.
Note also that the borg shields only have a 15% plasma resist compared to other STF sets.. if this is an end game set, then it should probably match.
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
i agree they should have boosted the MACO and OMEGA set instead of nerfing borg set,shame on you cryptic
it is a bad move on cryptics part very sad they doing this...