Retro Set Change, bad idea

brokenmirror2012

The retro set is now 3pc, Deflector, impulse, and shield, 2pc Hull heal 3pc SHield heal AND Tractor.

Now first we are losing the ability to run a good shield in combination with this heal. 2nd, We are losing the ability to run 2pc borg with 2 pc anything else. I think the consol should remain part of this set, and an alternative make it also include in the (dreadful) weapon set.

Dont believe me? Look.

This change is not good, focus on BOOSTING MACO and Omega Not nerfing Borg.

This is a post generaly recapping what most ppl will think when this goes live,

EDIT: I use regnerative shields, this change hits me very little compared to most ppl in STO.

khayuung

Ah, goodie. I can finally be free of old tech. I'll be getting full Omega now, and with the new rep change this will be easier!

kalvorax

I say just reduce the cooldown on the borg tractor beam and leave the 4 pc set........then again the borg tractor is ****

khayuung

Y'm glad for this nerf. MACO shields + 3pc borg is the commonest zombie build because its so OP. Highest cap shields, and crazy regen? Really?

At least now 2pc + MACO shield brings balance to the Federation. Good job Cryptic!

lostusthorn

No, the change is a good one, for exactly the stated reasons.
Finally no more 3pc borg with ueber shields.

kalvorax

Then again....post a link or SOMETHING that says cryptic is doing this in the first place.

brokenmirror2012

I think the shield heal should have been 4pc and the Tractor could have been 3pc, The probelm here is the loss of the ability to have the hull heal with another 2pc set.

I do thik zombie setups need to be nerfed, However they removed avery viable tactic, Which discourages the other sets even more.

khayuung

Not really. I'd just see more people with full MACO. Which isn't completely unbeatable?

You have to choose now. More speed? More shield cap?

For me, the choice is obvious.

LUDICRIOUS SPEED

brokenmirror2012

1 reason i should drop 2pc borg for full MACO/Omgea 2pc Omega is the only useful 1.

THe problem being even after the nerf Borg is STILL better then th other 2 xD...

They need to boost MACO and Omega And KHG, nerfing borg has not worked out.

EDIT: For the reccord i use regenerative shields, this change is meh to me.

bridgern

That is a very bad idea from Cryptic, and it shows again that they don't understand their own game.

havam

brokenmirror2012 wrote: »

Now first we are losing the ability to run a good shield in combination with this heal. 2nd, We are losing the ability to run 2pc borg with 2 pc anything else.

way overdue if you ask me, hope they nerf the heal stats of the assim set procs some more on top of that

carl103

Yeah this is way overdue. I would like to see the set bonusus of the MACO/OMEGA sets looked at as only the 2pc OMEGA is any good now, but it wouldn;t have mattered how good they where, as long as the borg was as it was no one would touch them. Survival abilities are just so much better in general.

luxchristian

bridgern wrote: »

That is a good idea from Cryptic, and it shows that they are beginning to understand their own game.

I corrected your sentence ;-)

zardonfar

I think this is a bad idea. A better idea would have been to increase Macro and Omega to a 4 piece set, allowing more flexability in your build out. Or increase all builds to a 6 piece set. Allowing more combinations in what special abilities suit your play style.

But it looks like the dye is already set, so they is just another post in the wind.

thisisoverlord

Indeed,

It is also going to ruin a lot of Sci builds out there which once again get nerf'd unfairly. Moreover the new MACO and OMEGA ground sets will be 6 piece sets, why not do the same here to allow for greater combinations.

This is the issue, people are moaning about "zombie" builds using 3 piece borg, Nothing will change people will just zombie 2 piece Borg 2 piece Maco/Omega/KHG

What they needed to do was to Make the Borg/Maco/Omega a 6 piece set.

Fix the Omega set as frankly hardly anyone runs it. Then they needed to update the Jem, Breen and Aegis sets to make them competitive again.

I believe they are updating the Romulan set.

Really this is a massive step in the wrong direction, Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations

I would like to see a much more varied ecosystem of set ups, this really doesn't cut it at all.

ussultimatum

khayuung wrote: »

Not really. I'd just see more people with full MACO.

What about the set bonuses of MACO says everyone will run this?

They are easily some of the worst set bonuses available.

skyranger1414

I understand the Retro Borg set can't be the go to set for everyone anymore because the whole point is to get you to grind for new stuff. I get that. But nerfing Borg instead of buffing MACO/Omega/KHG is not the best solution... but maybe its their only solution? They can't be that far ahead of the Elite Fleet sets or no one would grind those. What a conundrum Cryptic has made for itself! So many grinds to justify it can't make anything really good! Lol!!

I wonder if they'll ever get people would happily grind for more GOOD cosmetic options?

bones1970

Its always nerving and never fixing what is broken, called it the Cryptic way.

kalvorax

Then again...The addition of the borg weapons will be cool

http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=417101

guriphu

I think that this is probably a good move. It's a little worrisome because it's a nerf to the setup that I use, but weakening the rate of shield tanking is a positive step for PvP, and providing incentives to use different things with different strengths and weaknesses, rather than getting the combination that provides all the strengths and none of the weaknesses.

bridgern

luxchristian wrote: »

I corrected your sentence ;-)

Go and correct yourself

icegavel

brokenmirror2012 wrote: »

The retro set is now 3pc, Deflector, impulse, and shield, 2pc Hull heal 3pc SHield heal AND Tractor.

Now first we are losing the ability to run a good shield in combination with this heal. 2nd, We are losing the ability to run 2pc borg with 2 pc anything else. I think the consol should remain part of this set, and an alternative make it also include in the (dreadful) weapon set.

Dont believe me? Look.

This change is not good, focus on BOOSTING MACO and Omega Not nerfing Borg.

This is a post generaly recapping what most ppl will think when this goes live,

EDIT: I use regnerative shields, this change hits me very little compared to most ppl in STO.

I don't remember seeing anything about a Retro set change, did they ninja this in? Because if they did, I'm seriously jimmy-rustled. The 3-piece with a Covariant is the best tanking setup in the game if done properly. Why the heck did they nerf it? Did someone do a Spock's Brain on all of Cryptic?

Also, what happens with the Borg console?

bridgern

Yes they ninja it in.

jnohd

Meh. now I need to go back to carrying the Borg engine in my inventory so I can swap it in for Sector Space speed. They need to remove the warp cap from skills.

icegavel

This is either a glitch, or by far THE worst decision Cryptic has ever made. I either lose my passive shield heal, or get it AND a Tractor Beam that I do NOT want (Too long CD on it, and the Breen Set's power drain is VASTLY superior) and take a 32% or higher reduction to my max shield capacity (which, even at 12,977 now, goes down far too quickly in Elite STFs). If I WANTED the Borg shield, if I WANTED the Tractor Beam, I'd ALREADY have it. If they want to rebalance the Retro set, up the EDC price (maybe to the same EDC price as Mk X MACO, 20 per piece). I agree, it's a bit much when 10 EDCs and a story mission will net you the regen, but this will make the Borg set completely irrelevant in my eyes, while the others take far too long to get. This is their SECOND major nerf to this set, too. What's next, removing the Max Warp boost from the engines? Taking away the (minor) power boosts? NO.

The line must be drawn HEAH! THIS FAR, NO FARTHAH! And I.... will make them PAY, for what they've done!

hanover

They're not interested in what you want. They only care about what you're willing to put up with, without stopping the money train. Much lower overhead on revamping something that already existed and calling it a "new" set than there is in creating actual new content. Give you something disappointing to grind for in the hope you keep pretending that it's still worth playing the game and giving them cash.

diogene0

I'm not opposed to that change, that's just a bit harsh, but more diversity can't hurt the game. 80% of starfleet is currently using 3 parts of the borg set, that's not really diversity, and escorts are tanking too much, that's a fact.

My only concern is that there is no other valuable sci set, and no other set provides +5 to aux like the borg deflector. I hope the reman set has been buffed and got better individual set parts so that it doesn't look like an incidental sci nerf.

Cruisers won't see any difference, their tanking is far superior to any kind of existing damage, scis will get their graviton set nerfed and escorts will at last tank less. The last part is ofc what the game needs (and one of my main chars is flying escorts, so I know the insane amounf of tanking it can get). Currently, without a full team perfectly working on some escorts, they're impossible to kill in pvp, and pve is a huge joke, we could do it with mk 8 whige gear, so why would anyone complain?

You'll do better based on your individual skills, not thanks to your gear, isn't that the purpose of a game?

thisisoverlord

diogene0 wrote: »

I'm not opposed to that change, that's just a bit harsh, but more diversity can't hurt the game. 80% of starfleet is currently using 3 parts of the borg set, that's not really diversity, and escorts are tanking too much, that's a fact.

My only concern is that there is no other valuable sci set, and no other set provides +5 to aux like the borg deflector. I hope the reman set has been buffed and got better individual set parts so that it doesn't look like an incidental sci nerf.

Cruisers won't see any difference, their tanking is far superior to any kind of existing damage, scis will get their graviton set nerfed and escorts will at last tank less. The last part is ofc what the game needs (and one of my main chars is flying escorts, so I know the insane amounf of tanking it can get). Currently, without a full team perfectly working on some escorts, they're impossible to kill in pvp, and pve is a huge joke, we could do it with mk 8 whige gear, so why would anyone complain?

You'll do better based on your individual skills, not thanks to your gear, isn't that the purpose of a game?

But this isn't more diversity if anything it's less diversity now people will have to take an entire set rather than mix and match, so we won't see anymore unique combinations and won't have anymore diversity. They should've done what I already outlined above create 3 sets of six and revamp the Breen, Jem and Aegis sets into 4 piecers (Reman I think is already going to be revamped)

the result will not to be diversify but to homogenize.

verlaine11

It would be different if the other sets were just as good as the Borg set, looking at the set bonuses of the MACO and Omega sets to me they are not that good, if i want to keep with a 3 piece Borg + Console i would have to use the Borg shield and i would drop from 14,500 to 11,200 shields but gain a Tractor beam with a horrible cooldown, great trade off. If i want to keep as i am, MACO shields + 2 piece now im very much worse off with no regen shield or tractor beam but the same shield

Im sure there are a lot of people who are worried thier set up is now going to be junk, i know adapt or die will be said but i dont know, its all very confusing and not good, have to see how it goes.

theindefatigable

Yeah, rather than this I'd be happier if they made the full set bonuses more than just cool toys, and that includes the Borg tractor beam. Do that, and allow for a way to upgrade the Breen, Jem'Hadar, and Aegis sets to purple mk XII somehow, and I think you'll start seeing more diversity there. I personally love the appearance of the Aegis shield, but because it's basically (really good) Mk X instead of purple Mk XII I only use it in situations where I know I won't kick myself for it.

adamkafei

Frankly I have 1 thing to say about this change "AT LONG LAST!!"

Look, it's this set that allows everyone to tank to stupid degrees take this away and you do two things that benefit two communities:

1: You end the reign of tac tank/scorts thus giving the other ships a reason in PvE (admittedly it's only half the reform needed here but it's a start)

2: You end invincible cruisers in PvP, I run a shield strip cruiser, the only thing tat stops it is the borg shield heal

So I say to Cryptic "FINALLY! One step in the right direction, now can we end the DPS race as well?"