Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago, nothing really changed. The vast majority of players continued to run Borg 2- or 3-piece, plus a shield of their choosing, benefiting from a design oversight to a degree that left combat in an imbalanced state.
(Emphasis mine)
If we then must use the borg shield to get the bonus now, will you revert the bonuses to the "pre- toned down" state? I think that would be a reasonable compromise.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To you and maybe to the devs its "correcting" (at least until the next round of dev musical chairs hits, then who knows what devs will be around to think what is and isn't balanced) but to others it is not so. What will matter most is how the playerbase reacts to the upcoming changes. I don't think any amount of superior smugness will be of too much help if too many people leave and the game feels like a ghost town will it? Or worse yet, becomes a more churn based game, then we can be sure nothing will ever get fixed.
A lot of changes are coming, we'll just have to see what happens, ideally without being purposevely aggravating to others that have a different point of view yes?
I'd be happier if the new 3-piece set with the console didn't force me to use different weapon types. I was pretty happy with antiproton and quantum weapons, but none of those consoles will help a cutting beam or a plasma torpedo. Since changing energy weapon types isn't happening, that leaves the option of either changing to plasma torpedoes entirely, or splitting up the console space and taking the damage reduction in order to run some kind of combination build.
OR, a new tactical console specific to kinetic damage, released in conjunction with the rest of this. That might help.
At the risk of re-igniting the flames, allow me to attempt to explain the reasoning behind this change...
The Borg Space Set was originally balanced around the concept of players using all four pieces. This included the Regenerative Shield.
After the set went live, it became very evident that the vast majority of players did not wish to use the Borg Shield. Instead, they began running 2- and 3-piece conglomerations of Borg Set + Other Shields (and frequently Other Engines or Deflectors).
The trouble this presented, is that the passive heal procs present on the 2- and 3-piece Borg Set bonuses were intended originally to offset the downside presented by having a low-capacity shield array in an end-game environment where heavy spike damage was present (STFs). When you remove that shield from the mix, and replace it with a high-capacity alternative, you begin to receive all of the benefits and none of the downsides.
Hence an imbalance came to pass.
Yeah, I even remember the podcast you and Chris did way back that mentioned the benefits of a Borg set + covariant shield combo. Still have my old Covariant Mk X [cap]x3 shield in my bank that I used for the original combo (being better then the Aegis shield).
Almost two years later and peoples builds have hardly changed other then swapping out the shield.
*snip*
We're watching the aftermath of all of this very closely to ensure that our motivations for making the choices that we did, match up with the results that players are experiencing. It may come to pass that the Borg Set items, or associated Set Bonuses, now need to be improved under this new design. That's something we'll continue to keep on our radar.
The problem is what's happening here is exactly what happened after the last attempt at nerfing the set. People ignore the imbalance and how the set gives them virtually nigh invulnerability to everything but insta-popping isometrics and whine how the very meagre changes will mean they will pop like an overripe zit should a probe target them. I know, I know, that's a vast exaggeration (I think).
As a result of that whining back then, we still have the same problems. No one is going to happily give up a nice reliable free heal unless they are actually interested in balance.
Personally speaking the least powerful set bonus (tractor beam) should become a 2-piece set bonus, while the hull heal proc should become a 3-piece set bonus along with the shield heal proc. That way people will be forced to make a choice. High cap shields or Weak shields with free heal and shield proc.
As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
As for the 3 piece abilities, I'd certainly agree that Heavy Graviton Beam should be a little heavier. Personally I'd say the Masked Energy Field is rather useless, so perhaps replaced it with something else or have it provide a 5% damage and defense bonus when it's deactivated. As for gravitic anchor I'm not sure it needs much of a change, perhaps an additional reduction in speed or instead casts grav well.
An exploit would be finding an invincibility glitch and using it to run STFs, like Voldemort way back when. This was a tactic. A build, like any other.
Which virtually everyone used. Why? Because it was so damn powerful. 25-30% hull regeneration! And that was after the first nerf.
On to your other comment, so its "proper place" is total uselessness? I had nearly 13,000 shield capacity before this, and they were STILL being ripped apart before this. Now I've got 9,075, and that will vanish even FASTER.
Total uselessness? Since when is a reliable hull heal totally useless?
Undo the changes made to the current Borg Set. and make Omega, MACO and KHG a more atractive alternative.
The Borg set is overpowered, even after these changes it'll still be overpowered. So two nerfs later and it'll still be peoples number one choice, that's how crazy it is.
To make a set that matched the Borg sets OPness it would be a set which reliably drains 25-30% of the targets health and drain their shields to nothing. Now imagine that being used against you.
The set needs a severe balance pass and I say this as someone who has used it virtually since it became available.
A lot of changes are coming, we'll just have to see what happens, ideally without being purposevely aggravating to others that have a different point of view yes?
Sorry, but that's just how I am.
I hate being wrong... at anything, and I mean anything. Maybe it's the gamer background, but I prefer easy, and I'm used to winning (so I hate losing), and used to how I do things. And that streak is ingrained in me, more-or-less.
So don't think I'm intentionally doing it; it's just how I come across, unfortunately.
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Total uselessness? Since when is a reliable hull heal totally useless?
Since when has it been reliable? I chose to use the proc for extra resilience. Its activation is not consistent, and it isn't that great. But, it does more than other sets. Now that I'm going to need more hull heals (since regenerative shields are made of papier mache), it's worthless unless it were to more consistently activate.
The existing set is becoming Mk XI. Under the Omega Reputation, there will also be Mk X and Mk XII versions available.
Borticus, is the Aegis Set going to be improved at all? i love the rective shielding bonus but i just dont notice it resists much even with th full 10 sIacks. and how come i cant view shield damage resistance in my ship staus window when i can see hull resist? Thank you
I'd be happier if the new 3-piece set with the console didn't force me to use different weapon types. I was pretty happy with antiproton and quantum weapons, but none of those consoles will help a cutting beam or a plasma torpedo. Since changing energy weapon types isn't happening, that leaves the option of either changing to plasma torpedoes entirely, or splitting up the console space and taking the damage reduction in order to run some kind of combination build.
OR, a new tactical console specific to kinetic damage, released in conjunction with the rest of this. That might help.
At the risk of re-igniting the flames, allow me to attempt to explain the reasoning behind this change...
The Borg Space Set was originally balanced around the concept of players using all four pieces. This included the Regenerative Shield.
After the set went live, it became very evident that the vast majority of players did not wish to use the Borg Shield. Instead, they began running 2- and 3-piece conglomerations of Borg Set + Other Shields (and frequently Other Engines or Deflectors).
The trouble this presented, is that the passive heal procs present on the 2- and 3-piece Borg Set bonuses were intended originally to offset the downside presented by having a low-capacity shield array in an end-game environment where heavy spike damage was present (STFs). When you remove that shield from the mix, and replace it with a high-capacity alternative, you begin to receive all of the benefits and none of the downsides.
Hence an imbalance came to pass.
Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago, nothing really changed. The vast majority of players continued to run Borg 2- or 3-piece, plus a shield of their choosing, benefiting from a design oversight to a degree that left combat in an imbalanced state.
By removing the Console from the Borg Space Set, we've brought a semblance of balance back to that equation. Now, in order to benefit from the set bonuses in the manner that was originally intended, players must use the Shield that was intended to be a part of the package as a whole.
This is not a change we undertook lightly, as we're always hesitant to take things away from players that have already earned them through a potentially time-consuming process. In fact, this is why we added the previous 4-piece bonus (Borg Tractor Beam) to the 3-piece set, instead of including it as one of the bonuses of the new "Alt Set." So that players that had already earned this equipment lost nothing, and did not have to go out and earn new equipment in order to get something they already had.
We're watching the aftermath of all of this very closely to ensure that our motivations for making the choices that we did, match up with the results that players are experiencing. It may come to pass that the Borg Set items, or associated Set Bonuses, now need to be improved under this new design. That's something we'll continue to keep on our radar.
As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
If this has to go live, then please consider the following....
The borg shield at a minimum needs to be the same level as the Omega, or a much higher resistance to plasma damage, say 30%?
At the moment the borg shield is totally useless on anything other than a shuttle, and is nigh on hopeless in stfs even with the gimped heals the set offers..
As for the Omega and Maco set bonuses, you really need to go back to the drawing board with them. Right now with these changes the 3 piece set bonuses are useless and will never be used.
OK, now you have my attention. I must not have notice the "antiproton" part. My understanding was that it did kinetic damage. Am I to understand that it does antiproton and kinetic damage? And it is boosted by antproton consoles?
If so, that might be a passable consolation prize.
Ha! See what I did there? Console? Consolation prize? :P
OK, now you have my attention. I must not have notice the "antiproton" part. My understanding was that it did kinetic damage. Am I to understand that it does antiproton and kinetic damage? And it is boosted by antproton consoles?
If so, that might be a passable consolation prize.
Ha! See what I did there? Console? Consolation prize? :P
I haven't tested the player cutting beam, I just know from combat logs the beam the borg uses is AP, so it should work with ap consoles hopefully.
r this new design. That's something we'll continue to keep on our radar.
As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
Is there any possiblity that you will also be looking at revamping the the Aegis, Breen and Jem Hadar sets? I assume the Reman will be because of the new Romulan system.
I would love to see more variety of options. Also as an aside it's common practice in most MMO's these days to break up several sets and kitbash so for me this should have been an obvious outcome from the start, it something I've seen a lot @ DDO over the years.
Is there any possiblity that you will also be looking at revamping the the Aegis, Breen and Jem Hadar sets? I assume the Reman will be because of the new Romulan system.
I would love to see more variety of options. Also as an aside it's common practice in most MMO's these days to break up several sets and kitbash so for me this should have been an obvious outcome from the start, it something I've seen a lot @ DDO over the years.
Way back when I used to play a game called Final Fantasy XI. It was a traditional MMO with tank, damage dealer, healer, and (de)buffer classes. Later on they introduced a new DD job, the Ninja (maybe it was called something else but it was a long time ago so let's just go with that). The Ninja caused considerable damage wielding dual blades, but it also had an interesting ability to cast 'shadows' of itself. So whenever a mob would roll a hit on the Ninja one of these shadows would disappear instead. It had two tiers of shadow spells; Tier 1 cast 3 shadows and Tier 2 cast 2 of them. Now here is where FFXI relates directly to this Borg and other similar situations we seem to be constantly facing in STO.
Some intelligent and imaginative players realized that besides dealing a goodly amount of damage Ninjas could also tank! In fact, in most cases they became the preferred tank. Their 'blink tanking', as opposed to the traditional stand your ground and take the hits tanking, gave the advantage of faster killing and less heals. In turn traditional healers were sometimes not even necessary with a good blink tanker. Naturally, this new way of fighting mobs caught on like wildfire and traditional tanks and healers were upset. But when the developers were asked if they were going to do something to prevent this unintended (mis)use of a class power they said 'NO'. In fact, they went out of their way to say this wasn't an exploit and expressed joy that the player base was able to observe and adapt to a new situation. Instead of nerffing Ninjas or taking back blink tanking the developers worked with the player base to make Ninja tanking more enjoyable and created new mobs and missions that made traditional tanks and healers needed again.
Now the above description is an oversimplification of what really happened but the point still stands. Yes, growth and improvement in MMOs require changes through additions. But I am tired of re-speccing or re-rolling or re-TRIBBLE or re-equiping or re-whatever every time STO devs make a 'mistake' or the player community recognizes a better way of using game changes. If it's an obvious exploit that's one thing, but the Devs shouldn't always take the easy way out and nerf or force changes on items players have invested large amounts of time on (and in some cases money) just because things didn't go exactly as the devs planned. It might be a little more difficult for STO but please(!) stop giving players unnecessary grief and work around, not through, your 'mistakes'.
Don't get the wrong impression, I love this game and I think you people at STO are doing a wonderful job. It's just that sometimes...arrrrrgghhh!
That's really interesting and not unlike Evasion Tanking in WoW, something that works depending on the latest balance pass. (And the class balance changes monthly, if not more often.)
I think the trinity, overall, remains a compelling social design but think the problem is with having "pure" classes.
Everyone should be the ninja from your example. Everybody should be some flavor of Burning Crusade Druid.
The trinity is great for premade social groups, forcing teamwork, but is bad for random groups.
If you design all classes for tank, damage, and support (if not healing) then you have the benefits of the trinity system and a better innate balance and casual teaming setup.
Still think the three ship classes in STO should have equal (but different) damage, equal (but situationally relevant) tanking, and equal support capability.
I think to really look at that though, you need a three resource system rather than just shields and hull (ie. one for dodge for escorts) and maybe special cruiser-only wide arc/side arc beam arrays and a re-evaluation of subsystem targeting as a damage dealing effect. (I'd look too at giving Sci an extra rear slot and more synergy with mines and weapons platforms, as well as maybe shuttle hangars.)
The problem is what's happening here is exactly what happened after the last attempt at nerfing the set. People ignore the imbalance and how the set gives them virtually nigh invulnerability to everything but insta-popping isometrics and whine how the very meagre changes will mean they will pop like an overripe zit should a probe target them. I know, I know, that's a vast exaggeration (I think).
It's not probes and small craft i worry about in my own case. Its high end cubes multi sphere attacks and Tacticals. (not to menton The Kitty boss.) The kind of things that can pop you right out of the box if your cooldowns are badly timed. Even WITH this configuration. I'm a tactical. If i get targeted properly i'm probably gonna go down in an STF.
My defenses can hold but they dont hold forever. (if i'm lucky i get 15-30 secs sometimes less) That borg set has that heal, and it probably keeps me alive in those situations where a Cruiser cant pull back aggro off me.
The borg set change is the best change Cryptic has made in ages.
All of you complaining need to think about more then yourselves. Can any of you say it was good for balance in this game at all to be able to run Full borg set heals + throw on say a maco shield ? Come on it was BS there was no choice in this game, you ran 2 piece borg min... you still get the same boost with 2 piece borg btw... you simply can't achieve another 2 piece set bonus... this is a fantastic change.
Thank you Devs... don't let peoples cries deter you from balancing this set... Frankly which ever one of you introduced this set (assuming there still around), should be ashamed anyway. If the "retro" set was simply deleted it would be the best thing for the game.
If this has to go live, then please consider the following....
The borg shield at a minimum needs to be the same level as the Omega, or a much higher resistance to plasma damage, say 30%?
At the moment the borg shield is totally useless on anything other than a shuttle, and is nigh on hopeless in stfs even with the gimped heals the set offers..
As for the Omega and Maco set bonuses, you really need to go back to the drawing board with them. Right now with these changes the 3 piece set bonuses are useless and will never be used.
I think you miss the point...
Run a borg shield gain a free shield heal.... This is intended to make up for the fact that the shield capacity is fairly low. (frankly its still better then a regular regen shield)
Or run another shield and gain Capacity and give up the free shield heal....
That was the intention of this set... but they didn't really think out the 4 piece issue all that well.
I'm sorry, the borg heal is only so strong because it does not require a player action to save you from time to time in PvE. It is likely the weakest link in the current sustain heavy environment.
Silly high resistances, high shield regen, BoI Doffs, etc are much more problematic.
At the risk of re-igniting the flames, allow me to attempt to explain the reasoning behind this change...
The Borg Space Set was originally balanced around the concept of players using all four pieces. This included the Regenerative Shield.
After the set went live, it became very evident that the vast majority of players did not wish to use the Borg Shield. Instead, they began running 2- and 3-piece conglomerations of Borg Set + Other Shields (and frequently Other Engines or Deflectors).
The trouble this presented, is that the passive heal procs present on the 2- and 3-piece Borg Set bonuses were intended originally to offset the downside presented by having a low-capacity shield array in an end-game environment where heavy spike damage was present (STFs). When you remove that shield from the mix, and replace it with a high-capacity alternative, you begin to receive all of the benefits and none of the downsides.
Hence an imbalance came to pass.
Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago, nothing really changed. The vast majority of players continued to run Borg 2- or 3-piece, plus a shield of their choosing, benefiting from a design oversight to a degree that left combat in an imbalanced state.
By removing the Console from the Borg Space Set, we've brought a semblance of balance back to that equation. Now, in order to benefit from the set bonuses in the manner that was originally intended, players must use the Shield that was intended to be a part of the package as a whole.
This is not a change we undertook lightly, as we're always hesitant to take things away from players that have already earned them through a potentially time-consuming process. In fact, this is why we added the previous 4-piece bonus (Borg Tractor Beam) to the 3-piece set, instead of including it as one of the bonuses of the new "Alt Set." So that players that had already earned this equipment lost nothing, and did not have to go out and earn new equipment in order to get something they already had.
We're watching the aftermath of all of this very closely to ensure that our motivations for making the choices that we did, match up with the results that players are experiencing. It may come to pass that the Borg Set items, or associated Set Bonuses, now need to be improved under this new design. That's something we'll continue to keep on our radar.
As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
People are gonna say it's a bad change. They're gonna rage, yell, kick, scream, curse, swear, and hate it. Stay the course, these are good changes. It's good now and better in the long run.
To those who want the Borg set to remain as it is, I put this question to you: How many times have you made a single mistake in an STF only to have the set automatically save you? How many times have forgotten to do something in an STF, like missing EPtS or not using Tactical Team, or forgetting your Hazard Emitters and TSS only to look down and find your ship is still in close to pristine condition without lifting a finger? How many have watched an Escort, or Raptor, or BoP charge a Cube and tear it in half with almost no need of outside assistance despite having a virtually unshakable amount of aggro? How many times have you laid into something big, and scary, and nasty with all but one-hundred percent certainty that not only you won't die, but that you can do it without you team, and then do kill it without your team without ever really taxing your healing? These changes cut down the Rambo-effect of Escorts a small amount, and help to increase the usefulness of bringing along a ship-type that can provide additional healing, as well was leading to one needing to actually make trade-offs in your equipment exactly as Borticus said above.
Even better? Get ready to start sharing the Hazard Emitters, your teammates might just need 'em. Just think of it as more opportunities for "Big Damn Heroes" moments on your part.
Nerfing all the time ???? wth have they nerfed....
Frankly I haven't seen Cryptic "nerf" anything ever.... I have seen them make the odd correction to broken mechanics... and items that plain where not working right...
Double Shields... Shields granting resist cap... Shields procing shield repair doffs, lol that one was funny. Those where not "nerfs" they where corrections...
For the most part the only thing Cryptic is good at is releasing one broken item after another... with little or no regard to the balance implications to anything they have released previously. To me it seems there coming to there senses a bit and thats fantastic.
The few times Cryptic has decided to make a good change... its a 50/50 shot there bosses will tell them to back it up due to all the QQ. So yes lets hope they stay the course.
Borg set needs a good amount of correction... frankly even with these changes its still to good imo... but this is a step in the right direction for sure.
I like the earlier suggestion of just deleting the set entirely better, but this will be the next best thing. Good to see the game taking steps in right direction with balance issues. Keep up the good work devs.
At the risk of re-igniting the flames, allow me to attempt to explain the reasoning behind this change...
The Borg Space Set was originally balanced around the concept of players using all four pieces. This included the Regenerative Shield.
After the set went live, it became very evident that the vast majority of players did not wish to use the Borg Shield. Instead, they began running 2- and 3-piece conglomerations of Borg Set + Other Shields (and frequently Other Engines or Deflectors).
The trouble this presented, is that the passive heal procs present on the 2- and 3-piece Borg Set bonuses were intended originally to offset the downside presented by having a low-capacity shield array in an end-game environment where heavy spike damage was present (STFs). When you remove that shield from the mix, and replace it with a high-capacity alternative, you begin to receive all of the benefits and none of the downsides.
Hence an imbalance came to pass.
Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago, nothing really changed. The vast majority of players continued to run Borg 2- or 3-piece, plus a shield of their choosing, benefiting from a design oversight to a degree that left combat in an imbalanced state.
By removing the Console from the Borg Space Set, we've brought a semblance of balance back to that equation. Now, in order to benefit from the set bonuses in the manner that was originally intended, players must use the Shield that was intended to be a part of the package as a whole.
This is not a change we undertook lightly, as we're always hesitant to take things away from players that have already earned them through a potentially time-consuming process. In fact, this is why we added the previous 4-piece bonus (Borg Tractor Beam) to the 3-piece set, instead of including it as one of the bonuses of the new "Alt Set." So that players that had already earned this equipment lost nothing, and did not have to go out and earn new equipment in order to get something they already had.
We're watching the aftermath of all of this very closely to ensure that our motivations for making the choices that we did, match up with the results that players are experiencing. It may come to pass that the Borg Set items, or associated Set Bonuses, now need to be improved under this new design. That's something we'll continue to keep on our radar.
As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
Your logic is completely sound, Bort. You're definitely starting to think like a PvPer. Major kudos!
What we have here is a lot of selfish people being overly defensive about their precious builds being hurt. We PvPers predominantly use three piece borg + Maco/KHG shields too, but we don't mind if our builds are hurt along the path of improving balance -- we'll adapt, the game will be better for it, and we'll all have more fun in the long run.
The ironic thing here is that you most certainly do not need uber shields + borg procs for the retardedly easy PvE in this game, yet from all the carebear rage around here you'd think this was some kind of NGE-like apocalypse! :rolleyes:
As one result of the feedback we've already received in relation to this change, we're performing another performance review of all of the STF set bonuses, with a specific focus on the 3-piece abilities. This includes the Heavy Graviton Beam, Gravitic Anchor, and Mask Energy Field. All of these powers will be improved in some manner, along with an upcoming patch.
While you're at it - could you fix the bug that AP:Omega doesn't help against Gravitic Anchor?
Balancing the game is not the problem, the problem is they modify a tiny part of the game and keep everything else unchanged, that way there will be never balance. One season should be dedicated to balance the game, instead of bringing in new unbalanced stuff.
If you ever meet a person or a PVP fleet in STO like the Spanish Inquisition, you are ****ed with this set or without it.
Comments
(Emphasis mine)
If we then must use the borg shield to get the bonus now, will you revert the bonuses to the "pre- toned down" state? I think that would be a reasonable compromise.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
To you and maybe to the devs its "correcting" (at least until the next round of dev musical chairs hits, then who knows what devs will be around to think what is and isn't balanced) but to others it is not so. What will matter most is how the playerbase reacts to the upcoming changes. I don't think any amount of superior smugness will be of too much help if too many people leave and the game feels like a ghost town will it? Or worse yet, becomes a more churn based game, then we can be sure nothing will ever get fixed.
A lot of changes are coming, we'll just have to see what happens, ideally without being purposevely aggravating to others that have a different point of view yes?
OR, a new tactical console specific to kinetic damage, released in conjunction with the rest of this. That might help.
Yeah, I even remember the podcast you and Chris did way back that mentioned the benefits of a Borg set + covariant shield combo. Still have my old Covariant Mk X [cap]x3 shield in my bank that I used for the original combo (being better then the Aegis shield).
Almost two years later and peoples builds have hardly changed other then swapping out the shield.
The problem is what's happening here is exactly what happened after the last attempt at nerfing the set. People ignore the imbalance and how the set gives them virtually nigh invulnerability to everything but insta-popping isometrics and whine how the very meagre changes will mean they will pop like an overripe zit should a probe target them. I know, I know, that's a vast exaggeration (I think).
As a result of that whining back then, we still have the same problems. No one is going to happily give up a nice reliable free heal unless they are actually interested in balance.
Personally speaking the least powerful set bonus (tractor beam) should become a 2-piece set bonus, while the hull heal proc should become a 3-piece set bonus along with the shield heal proc. That way people will be forced to make a choice. High cap shields or Weak shields with free heal and shield proc.
As for the 3 piece abilities, I'd certainly agree that Heavy Graviton Beam should be a little heavier. Personally I'd say the Masked Energy Field is rather useless, so perhaps replaced it with something else or have it provide a 5% damage and defense bonus when it's deactivated. As for gravitic anchor I'm not sure it needs much of a change, perhaps an additional reduction in speed or instead casts grav well.
Which virtually everyone used. Why? Because it was so damn powerful. 25-30% hull regeneration! And that was after the first nerf.
Total uselessness? Since when is a reliable hull heal totally useless?
The Borg set is overpowered, even after these changes it'll still be overpowered. So two nerfs later and it'll still be peoples number one choice, that's how crazy it is.
To make a set that matched the Borg sets OPness it would be a set which reliably drains 25-30% of the targets health and drain their shields to nothing. Now imagine that being used against you.
The set needs a severe balance pass and I say this as someone who has used it virtually since it became available.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
I hate being wrong... at anything, and I mean anything. Maybe it's the gamer background, but I prefer easy, and I'm used to winning (so I hate losing), and used to how I do things. And that streak is ingrained in me, more-or-less.
So don't think I'm intentionally doing it; it's just how I come across, unfortunately.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Since when has it been reliable? I chose to use the proc for extra resilience. Its activation is not consistent, and it isn't that great. But, it does more than other sets. Now that I'm going to need more hull heals (since regenerative shields are made of papier mache), it's worthless unless it were to more consistently activate.
Borticus, is the Aegis Set going to be improved at all? i love the rective shielding bonus but i just dont notice it resists much even with th full 10 sIacks. and how come i cant view shield damage resistance in my ship staus window when i can see hull resist? Thank you
So are you atleast gonna tone up the bonuses now you are nerfing how the set works?
So it atleast gets something good out of this change?
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
borg cutting beam is antiproton.
If this has to go live, then please consider the following....
The borg shield at a minimum needs to be the same level as the Omega, or a much higher resistance to plasma damage, say 30%?
At the moment the borg shield is totally useless on anything other than a shuttle, and is nigh on hopeless in stfs even with the gimped heals the set offers..
As for the Omega and Maco set bonuses, you really need to go back to the drawing board with them. Right now with these changes the 3 piece set bonuses are useless and will never be used.
:eek:
OK, now you have my attention. I must not have notice the "antiproton" part. My understanding was that it did kinetic damage. Am I to understand that it does antiproton and kinetic damage? And it is boosted by antproton consoles?
If so, that might be a passable consolation prize.
Ha! See what I did there? Console? Consolation prize? :P
I haven't tested the player cutting beam, I just know from combat logs the beam the borg uses is AP, so it should work with ap consoles hopefully.
Is there any possiblity that you will also be looking at revamping the the Aegis, Breen and Jem Hadar sets? I assume the Reman will be because of the new Romulan system.
I would love to see more variety of options. Also as an aside it's common practice in most MMO's these days to break up several sets and kitbash so for me this should have been an obvious outcome from the start, it something I've seen a lot @ DDO over the years.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Yes PLEASE improve the Aegis Set please!!!
Some intelligent and imaginative players realized that besides dealing a goodly amount of damage Ninjas could also tank! In fact, in most cases they became the preferred tank. Their 'blink tanking', as opposed to the traditional stand your ground and take the hits tanking, gave the advantage of faster killing and less heals. In turn traditional healers were sometimes not even necessary with a good blink tanker. Naturally, this new way of fighting mobs caught on like wildfire and traditional tanks and healers were upset. But when the developers were asked if they were going to do something to prevent this unintended (mis)use of a class power they said 'NO'. In fact, they went out of their way to say this wasn't an exploit and expressed joy that the player base was able to observe and adapt to a new situation. Instead of nerffing Ninjas or taking back blink tanking the developers worked with the player base to make Ninja tanking more enjoyable and created new mobs and missions that made traditional tanks and healers needed again.
Now the above description is an oversimplification of what really happened but the point still stands. Yes, growth and improvement in MMOs require changes through additions. But I am tired of re-speccing or re-rolling or re-TRIBBLE or re-equiping or re-whatever every time STO devs make a 'mistake' or the player community recognizes a better way of using game changes. If it's an obvious exploit that's one thing, but the Devs shouldn't always take the easy way out and nerf or force changes on items players have invested large amounts of time on (and in some cases money) just because things didn't go exactly as the devs planned. It might be a little more difficult for STO but please(!) stop giving players unnecessary grief and work around, not through, your 'mistakes'.
Don't get the wrong impression, I love this game and I think you people at STO are doing a wonderful job. It's just that sometimes...arrrrrgghhh!
I think the trinity, overall, remains a compelling social design but think the problem is with having "pure" classes.
Everyone should be the ninja from your example. Everybody should be some flavor of Burning Crusade Druid.
The trinity is great for premade social groups, forcing teamwork, but is bad for random groups.
If you design all classes for tank, damage, and support (if not healing) then you have the benefits of the trinity system and a better innate balance and casual teaming setup.
Still think the three ship classes in STO should have equal (but different) damage, equal (but situationally relevant) tanking, and equal support capability.
I think to really look at that though, you need a three resource system rather than just shields and hull (ie. one for dodge for escorts) and maybe special cruiser-only wide arc/side arc beam arrays and a re-evaluation of subsystem targeting as a damage dealing effect. (I'd look too at giving Sci an extra rear slot and more synergy with mines and weapons platforms, as well as maybe shuttle hangars.)
It's not probes and small craft i worry about in my own case. Its high end cubes multi sphere attacks and Tacticals. (not to menton The Kitty boss.) The kind of things that can pop you right out of the box if your cooldowns are badly timed. Even WITH this configuration. I'm a tactical. If i get targeted properly i'm probably gonna go down in an STF.
My defenses can hold but they dont hold forever. (if i'm lucky i get 15-30 secs sometimes less) That borg set has that heal, and it probably keeps me alive in those situations where a Cruiser cant pull back aggro off me.
All of you complaining need to think about more then yourselves. Can any of you say it was good for balance in this game at all to be able to run Full borg set heals + throw on say a maco shield ? Come on it was BS there was no choice in this game, you ran 2 piece borg min... you still get the same boost with 2 piece borg btw... you simply can't achieve another 2 piece set bonus... this is a fantastic change.
Thank you Devs... don't let peoples cries deter you from balancing this set... Frankly which ever one of you introduced this set (assuming there still around), should be ashamed anyway. If the "retro" set was simply deleted it would be the best thing for the game.
I think you miss the point...
Run a borg shield gain a free shield heal.... This is intended to make up for the fact that the shield capacity is fairly low. (frankly its still better then a regular regen shield)
Or run another shield and gain Capacity and give up the free shield heal....
That was the intention of this set... but they didn't really think out the 4 piece issue all that well.
I'm sorry, the borg heal is only so strong because it does not require a player action to save you from time to time in PvE. It is likely the weakest link in the current sustain heavy environment.
Silly high resistances, high shield regen, BoI Doffs, etc are much more problematic.
This.
Signed/voted/supported
People are gonna say it's a bad change. They're gonna rage, yell, kick, scream, curse, swear, and hate it. Stay the course, these are good changes. It's good now and better in the long run.
To those who want the Borg set to remain as it is, I put this question to you: How many times have you made a single mistake in an STF only to have the set automatically save you? How many times have forgotten to do something in an STF, like missing EPtS or not using Tactical Team, or forgetting your Hazard Emitters and TSS only to look down and find your ship is still in close to pristine condition without lifting a finger? How many have watched an Escort, or Raptor, or BoP charge a Cube and tear it in half with almost no need of outside assistance despite having a virtually unshakable amount of aggro? How many times have you laid into something big, and scary, and nasty with all but one-hundred percent certainty that not only you won't die, but that you can do it without you team, and then do kill it without your team without ever really taxing your healing? These changes cut down the Rambo-effect of Escorts a small amount, and help to increase the usefulness of bringing along a ship-type that can provide additional healing, as well was leading to one needing to actually make trade-offs in your equipment exactly as Borticus said above.
Even better? Get ready to start sharing the Hazard Emitters, your teammates might just need 'em. Just think of it as more opportunities for "Big Damn Heroes" moments on your part.
If this company actually did that instead of nerfing everything all the time we wouldn't be having this discussion, but they never learn.
Frankly I haven't seen Cryptic "nerf" anything ever.... I have seen them make the odd correction to broken mechanics... and items that plain where not working right...
Double Shields... Shields granting resist cap... Shields procing shield repair doffs, lol that one was funny. Those where not "nerfs" they where corrections...
For the most part the only thing Cryptic is good at is releasing one broken item after another... with little or no regard to the balance implications to anything they have released previously. To me it seems there coming to there senses a bit and thats fantastic.
The few times Cryptic has decided to make a good change... its a 50/50 shot there bosses will tell them to back it up due to all the QQ. So yes lets hope they stay the course.
Borg set needs a good amount of correction... frankly even with these changes its still to good imo... but this is a step in the right direction for sure.
Your logic is completely sound, Bort. You're definitely starting to think like a PvPer. Major kudos!
+1 applause from me too! And I'm excited for both the Omega Adapted and the new Retro.
Things are looking up guys. We're getting away from EscorTrek Online!
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
The ironic thing here is that you most certainly do not need uber shields + borg procs for the retardedly easy PvE in this game, yet from all the carebear rage around here you'd think this was some kind of NGE-like apocalypse! :rolleyes:
If you ever meet a person or a PVP fleet in STO like the Spanish Inquisition, you are ****ed with this set or without it.