Speaking of adding more options for us all, the thought occurs to me that they may have plans to add more console/weapon sets. After all if they didn't everyone would go for the new Borg set for the bonuses, right?
I don't think this change is as bad as many believe it to be. I've always thought that they should add a 4th piece to each set other than the Borg set of course, just so there is balance, but now they're removing the 4th piece from the original Borg set so that'll no longer be a concern, there will be balance once again as well as many more choices to think about. The sets should offer choices rather than there be a single set that everyone uses or mixes with another, the ability to mix the Borg set with other sets was never intended.
Oh, agreed.
But until they have sci consoles that boost damage, assimilated module goes in the escort sci weapons slot anyway.
That said, I think they should look at sci-consoles that, say, enhance torpedo speed or bleedthrough or cannon kinetic damage.
It would be interesting if transphasics became seen as a more viable sci-oriented option, for instance.
I'd think if you'd drop anything, it would be the shields/engine/deflector.
The Borg console is still a damage-boosting universal console.
It belongs in the sci slot of any escort.
You make a valid point, what I'm not sure of - is whether to drop the deflector or shield.
I'll have to look at what they modify to decide, but I'm leaning toward the shield as it's really quite weak compared to what I used to have (Aegis shield).
Also, as an aside, unless the cutting beam and torp launcher are just balls-out awesome, the set bonus doesn't really scream out to me "OMG I MUST USE THIS 3/3!!?one!" I mean, +10 weapon power and a 1 sec damage reduction? /shrug.
Also, to answer someone's question from earlier, given that the current console just says "universal" and the screenshotted console says "MK XII," I'm guessing they're probably going to make the console something that is Omega-Force-point-purchaseable and drop it from the Assimilated mission. Would make sense if you have to purchase the other two items, existing users would simply be grandfathered in. That's 110% logical-but-unfounded-assumption.
I've read through most of this thread and I'm looking for a little confirmation.
In my Escort build (PvE only), I use the Aegis Engines, Borg Console, Borg Deflector and Borg Shields.
As I understand it, my 3-piece set now becomes a 2-piece set - meaning that I lose the 'shield boost' proc but not the 'hull repair' proc?
The reason I lose it, is because the console is now part of a separate set entirely?
So to get my 'shield boost' proc back, I need to swap Aegis Engines for Borg Engines and run the full Borg set?
Assuming the above is true - that wouldn't really give me much reason to keep the borg console and to attempt to find an alternative that provides better/similar buffs.
A shame as the 'shield boost' proc did come in very handy at times - is this actually live on holodeck now or is this a proposed change?
Tbh, if you're in an escort you should max your damage. That usually means running the omega set, if you want to be safer use the MACO shields w/them assuming your toon is a fed. The Omega deflector boosts your targeting, the engines are among the best if not the best options for performance, and the 2 part bonus gives you free shield damage which is boosted by flow caps and weapon power level.
More generally even for PvPing Escorts should be using tet glider for most builds out there. Seriously, do you know how easy it is to escape from ships using Borg Engines? Half the time I don't even need an engine batt or evasives, just full power to engines and I'm out of harms way.
If anything this hurts zombie cruisers and zombie sci builds. Even than all it did was mean people like most NPCs just ignore them till the other targets are down.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Tbh, if you're in an escort you should max your damage. That usually means running the omega set, if you want to be safer use the MACO shields w/them assuming your toon is a fed. The Omega deflector boosts your targeting, the engines are among the best if not the best options for performance, and the 2 part bonus gives you free shield damage which is boosted by flow caps and weapon power level.
More generally even for PvPing Escorts should be using tet glider for most builds out there. Seriously, do you know how easy it is to escape from ships using Borg Engines? Half the time I don't even need an engine batt or evasives, just full power to engines and I'm out of harms way.
If anything this hurts zombie cruisers and zombie sci builds. Even than all it did was mean people like most NPCs just ignore them till the other targets are down.
Now that's interesting to know, I hadn't even considered the Omega or MACO sets.
Will certainly check them out, appreciate the info.
Escaping from ships isn't really an issue in PvE, hence why I don't use the Borg engines.
Now that's interesting to know, I hadn't even considered the Omega or MACO sets.
Will certainly check them out, appreciate the info.
Escaping from ships isn't really an issue in PvE, hence why I don't use the Borg engines.
Np, to clarify I was refering to how easy it is to outrun someone who is using Borg engines which are slow.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Speccing is about choices. Gear is about setting goals to get more choices.
Costlier things should perform better.
The costlier things still may not perform better.
I feel like you're only looking at the borg set half of this equation.
Let's look at the existing sets:
MACO
Even with these nerfs/changes, the MACO set bonuses are terrible.
1) 5% recharge reduction is cosmetic, and is also superfluous in the face of Tac Initiative and Aux to Batts + Technician builds.
2) Graviton beam is worthless, and this is the third set bonus. The only thing it's done since they nerfed the usefulness out of it is tickle the borg and then promptly go on a 3 minute cooldown.
OMEGA
1) Tet Glider is still a decent set bonus, it's been heavily nerfed primarily for PvP balance concerns.
2) Gravitic Anchor is almost useful. Again, another power on a 3 minute cooldown.
-50 defense is completely pointless in STFs. You can run a character with zero accuracy bonuses and still have a 99-100% hit rate against the Borg (or all NPCs for that matter).
If this power had the kinetic ressitance debuff and defense debuff numbers switched around, and either
A) Lasted longer (30s)
or
Had a much, much shorter cooldown (say, 1 minute to 90 seconds)
It might actually be useful.
KHG
1) Tactical Readiness. Decent, but only if you use Torpedos (does not boost mines).
2) Mask Energy Field. This power, for the STF environment, wins hands down as possibly the most useless thing you could possibly add to a ship - and requires that you slot the entire set to get it.
I feel like you're only looking at the borg set half of this equation.
Let's look at the existing sets:
MACO
Even with these nerfs/changes, the MACO set bonuses are terrible.
1) 5% recharge reduction is cosmetic, and is also superfluous in the face of Tac Initiative and Aux to Batts + Technician builds.
2) Graviton beam is worthless, and this is the third set bonus. The only thing it's done since they nerfed the usefulness out of it is tickle the borg and then promptly go on a 3 minute cooldown.
OMEGA
1) Tet Glider is still a decent set bonus, it's been heavily nerfed primarily for PvP balance concerns.
2) Gravitic Anchor is almost useful. Again, another power on a 3 minute cooldown.
-50 defense is completely pointless in STFs. You can run a character with zero accuracy bonuses and still have a 99-100% hit rate against the Borg (or all NPCs for that matter).
If this power had the kinetic ressitance debuff and defense debuff numbers switched around, and either
A) Lasted longer (30s)
or
Had a much, much shorter cooldown (say, 1 minute to 90 seconds)
It might actually be useful.
KHG
1) Tactical Readiness. Decent, but only if you use Torpedos (does not boost mines).
2) Mask Energy Field. This power, for the STF environment, wins hands down as possibly the most useless thing you could possibly add to a ship - and requires that you slot the entire set to get it.
Keep in mind the 5% reduction effects more than just Boff powers last I saw unlike tac intiative and aux2batt builds.
Tet glider is still very good and flow caps is a tier 1 skill, so not much in skill investment given the return.
As you mentioned for torp builds 2 part khg is a must for kdf.
I don't see how the grav beam is a bad thing, it's an AoE knockback w/speed reduction.
Omega bonus is useful in PvP and for PvE you can lower kinetic resists allowing torps/mines/sci abilities to do more damage.
KHG 3 part is TRIBBLE.
You're also leaving out individual bonuses which for the omega set I like each part based on that alone.
KHG shield has crappy regen, but for high alpha NPC attacks it has a huge buffer for those who only PvE. For PvP it's proc can be annoying
Omega Shields are good for movement for PvP and have a high proc rate.
Maco Shields have +10 when under ff, 10% resists, resiliant, high regen and cap.
Omega deflector has +targeting skill.
KHG deflector boosts a lot of abilities, depends on build if they match what you'd like to have boosted.
Maco has good hull boosting stats plus many others including shield boosts.
KHG are mostly TRIBBLE b/c combat type, but they do have the hot restart and a turnrate boost.
Omega the best engines based on the type.
MACO engines are solid and probably 3rd best engines behind omega and aegis. The driver coil bonus adds a boost for those who like to come out of full impulse w/decent power levels.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
first effect is clear: the eng, deflect, shield set is focused on regens and interesting offensive build combos and support (u regen fast, stay out of the way and toss heals, cc, drain skills).
oposite to aegis, maco, romulan sets that have high stats , rly good for tanking, taking it while spiking dmg u'r self and then bugging out to heal up.
the console, topr, beam set... wow this makes many build worth a good long look at.
combine with
romulan set for stealth game play + the plasma weap stack (tacs klinks will love that)
omega / borg on sci wil get them nice support bonuses + less power necesary to weps when running a torp boat.
combined with the ferengi / temporal set will probably make torp boats appear again.
as with the previous patch, this i making steps to balance out the gap between classes imo, and opens up interesting new builds
As you mentioned for torp builds 2 part khg is a must for kdf.
"Torp builds" is a pretty limited and specific niche, and since many KDF ships can slot dual heavy cannons they are often much better off going with those for STFs.
Omega bonus is useful in PvP and for PvE you can lower kinetic resists allowing torps/mines/sci abilities to do more damage.
Similar to MACO, the issue is the cooldown to usage ratio and the fact that -50 defense is pointless on STFs, which one must assume the STF sets were in fact designed for.
It might as well be a -50 to sense of humor for all that it actually does against the borg.
Big problem is that the other sets really aren't all that great, bonus-wise... grav anchor is okay albeit cheesy, I'm not sure if MACO even has a three-piece bonus. Next best set'll probably be two-part Aegis or something, maybe two-part Jem.
At least some of the fleet stuff might be more appealing now? IDK.
Also, as an aside, unless the cutting beam and torp launcher are just balls-out awesome, the set bonus doesn't really scream out to me "OMG I MUST USE THIS 3/3!!?one!" I mean, +10 weapon power and a 1 sec damage reduction? /shrug.
Also, to answer someone's question from earlier, given that the current console just says "universal" and the screenshotted console says "MK XII," I'm guessing they're probably going to make the console something that is Omega-Force-point-purchaseable and drop it from the Assimilated mission. Would make sense if you have to purchase the other two items, existing users would simply be grandfathered in. That's 110% logical-but-unfounded-assumption.
That 'someone' was probably me. But I was more wondering if the console that's being grandfathered in would likely be automatically considered Mk X, or what. Of course, until we see something more authoritative this is probably just speculation, although there may be people here with more experience of how this sort of thing is typically handled than I do, ergo one reason I asked.
Best news ever to me as well. This may sound critical but I hope that this be an example as to what should be done to the other sets. I have felt that the other individual def, eng, shield, items have been neglected and perhaps and set bonuses be mostly useful against pve npcs such as the borg or the undine, etc. Just a random opinion, stf/pve set loot for stf/pve events
One thing nobody has mentioned is the new fleet holdings. We were told that they would be granting access to some rather nifty consoles, they may possibly add to the new Borg sets in ways we are yet to see.
Considering this will probably require a T8 starbase that takes even the huge fleets another 5 months to build, and tens of millions of dilithium, I am not overly excited at this prospect, even though the consoles may indeed be awesome.
Let's say you have a captain power with a 3 minute cooldown.
That's 180s, reduced by 5% = 171s
Or, 2 minutes and 51s.
Functionally speaking, that's pointless.
You're still waiting, basically, 3 minutes.
"Torp builds" is a pretty limited and specific niche, and since many KDF ships can slot dual heavy cannons they are often much better off going with those for STFs.
It's a cost opportunity issue.
What you describe it does is fine for a power on a 45s or 60s cooldown.
This one, however, requires you to slot the entire MACO set and has a 3 minute cooldown. That's the main issue with it.
Similar to MACO, the issue is the cooldown to usage ratio and the fact that -50 defense is pointless on STFs, which one must assume the STF sets were in fact designed for.
It might as well be a -50 to sense of humor for all that it actually does against the borg.
These are not set bonuses.
They are part of the shield, and the shields are all generally good.
My post is discussing the set bonuses which are largely weak and pointless.
For PvP that 9 sec gives you the advantage of getting your APA or SNB etc up faster than your opponent. For PvE there are otherthings like NWS where you don't really have down time and the faster the better. Why are you only focusing on STFs?
You speak of opportunity costs, but don't include the value of the individual items? This makes no sense. You should be evaluating the individual items and w/e set bonus they may or may not have. So what if the jem set's 2 part bonus gives a polaron damage boost if the pieces of it are too substandard for w/e task @ hand you're trying to accomplish?
You don't think a team of 5 players staggering 3 part maco w/TBRs has any use in PvE?
You know the defense to ACC ratio spills over into crit hits and damage? The more you debuff a target's defense the more crit hits and crit damage you'll do. The -50% defense boost not only your damage but your allies. It also boosts kinetic damage. Again a team of 5 players can stagger them debuff on the targets.
Torp builds can fire off a torp a second. Brels can fire them cloaked while laying rear mines. The stf borg torps come w/a 1k damage boost proc and you don't think they're useful?
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Interestingly, the Deflector, Drive an shield are now the old Borg set, but the console is part of a new set "Omega Adapted Borg technology", which contains the console, and "Omega Plasma Torpedo Launcher" and a "Kinetic Cutting Beam".
I foresee some folks rocking both Borg sets since every piece occupies a different slot.
I find it funny because of all the changes to skills and sets have been because pvpers are *****ing about being overpowered....then it makes it underpowered in PvE because players want "balance" in PvP....
Comments
Oh, agreed.
But until they have sci consoles that boost damage, assimilated module goes in the escort sci weapons slot anyway.
That said, I think they should look at sci-consoles that, say, enhance torpedo speed or bleedthrough or cannon kinetic damage.
It would be interesting if transphasics became seen as a more viable sci-oriented option, for instance.
You make a valid point, what I'm not sure of - is whether to drop the deflector or shield.
I'll have to look at what they modify to decide, but I'm leaning toward the shield as it's really quite weak compared to what I used to have (Aegis shield).
Any ideas?
Also, to answer someone's question from earlier, given that the current console just says "universal" and the screenshotted console says "MK XII," I'm guessing they're probably going to make the console something that is Omega-Force-point-purchaseable and drop it from the Assimilated mission. Would make sense if you have to purchase the other two items, existing users would simply be grandfathered in. That's 110% logical-but-unfounded-assumption.
Tbh, if you're in an escort you should max your damage. That usually means running the omega set, if you want to be safer use the MACO shields w/them assuming your toon is a fed. The Omega deflector boosts your targeting, the engines are among the best if not the best options for performance, and the 2 part bonus gives you free shield damage which is boosted by flow caps and weapon power level.
More generally even for PvPing Escorts should be using tet glider for most builds out there. Seriously, do you know how easy it is to escape from ships using Borg Engines? Half the time I don't even need an engine batt or evasives, just full power to engines and I'm out of harms way.
If anything this hurts zombie cruisers and zombie sci builds. Even than all it did was mean people like most NPCs just ignore them till the other targets are down.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
you equip the 3 piece borg set..
And the 3 piece enhanced omega borg..(whatever) set..
Do you get bonus visuals that turn you into a borg cube
[edit: just a bit of humour to break some of the fire and ice in this thread
Now that's interesting to know, I hadn't even considered the Omega or MACO sets.
Will certainly check them out, appreciate the info.
Escaping from ships isn't really an issue in PvE, hence why I don't use the Borg engines.
Np, to clarify I was refering to how easy it is to outrun someone who is using Borg engines which are slow.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I only used the borg engine for the extra hull heal along with the console, and also for the faster warp speed of course
The costlier things still may not perform better.
I feel like you're only looking at the borg set half of this equation.
Let's look at the existing sets:
MACO
Even with these nerfs/changes, the MACO set bonuses are terrible.
1) 5% recharge reduction is cosmetic, and is also superfluous in the face of Tac Initiative and Aux to Batts + Technician builds.
2) Graviton beam is worthless, and this is the third set bonus. The only thing it's done since they nerfed the usefulness out of it is tickle the borg and then promptly go on a 3 minute cooldown.
OMEGA
1) Tet Glider is still a decent set bonus, it's been heavily nerfed primarily for PvP balance concerns.
2) Gravitic Anchor is almost useful. Again, another power on a 3 minute cooldown.
-50 defense is completely pointless in STFs. You can run a character with zero accuracy bonuses and still have a 99-100% hit rate against the Borg (or all NPCs for that matter).
If this power had the kinetic ressitance debuff and defense debuff numbers switched around, and either
A) Lasted longer (30s)
or
It might actually be useful.
KHG
1) Tactical Readiness. Decent, but only if you use Torpedos (does not boost mines).
2) Mask Energy Field. This power, for the STF environment, wins hands down as possibly the most useless thing you could possibly add to a ship - and requires that you slot the entire set to get it.
Keep in mind the 5% reduction effects more than just Boff powers last I saw unlike tac intiative and aux2batt builds.
Tet glider is still very good and flow caps is a tier 1 skill, so not much in skill investment given the return.
As you mentioned for torp builds 2 part khg is a must for kdf.
I don't see how the grav beam is a bad thing, it's an AoE knockback w/speed reduction.
Omega bonus is useful in PvP and for PvE you can lower kinetic resists allowing torps/mines/sci abilities to do more damage.
KHG 3 part is TRIBBLE.
You're also leaving out individual bonuses which for the omega set I like each part based on that alone.
KHG shield has crappy regen, but for high alpha NPC attacks it has a huge buffer for those who only PvE. For PvP it's proc can be annoying
Omega Shields are good for movement for PvP and have a high proc rate.
Maco Shields have +10 when under ff, 10% resists, resiliant, high regen and cap.
Omega deflector has +targeting skill.
KHG deflector boosts a lot of abilities, depends on build if they match what you'd like to have boosted.
Maco has good hull boosting stats plus many others including shield boosts.
KHG are mostly TRIBBLE b/c combat type, but they do have the hot restart and a turnrate boost.
Omega the best engines based on the type.
MACO engines are solid and probably 3rd best engines behind omega and aegis. The driver coil bonus adds a boost for those who like to come out of full impulse w/decent power levels.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
LMAO!! That would be funny!!
first effect is clear: the eng, deflect, shield set is focused on regens and interesting offensive build combos and support (u regen fast, stay out of the way and toss heals, cc, drain skills).
oposite to aegis, maco, romulan sets that have high stats , rly good for tanking, taking it while spiking dmg u'r self and then bugging out to heal up.
the console, topr, beam set... wow this makes many build worth a good long look at.
combine with
romulan set for stealth game play + the plasma weap stack (tacs klinks will love that)
omega / borg on sci wil get them nice support bonuses + less power necesary to weps when running a torp boat.
combined with the ferengi / temporal set will probably make torp boats appear again.
as with the previous patch, this i making steps to balance out the gap between classes imo, and opens up interesting new builds
The best balancing act to pvp yet?? To me probably the best news yet - Makes the other sets an equal?
Let's say you have a captain power with a 3 minute cooldown.
That's 180s, reduced by 5% = 171s
Or, 2 minutes and 51s.
Functionally speaking, that's pointless.
You're still waiting, basically, 3 minutes.
"Torp builds" is a pretty limited and specific niche, and since many KDF ships can slot dual heavy cannons they are often much better off going with those for STFs.
It's a cost opportunity issue.
What you describe it does is fine for a power on a 45s or 60s cooldown.
This one, however, requires you to slot the entire MACO set and has a 3 minute cooldown. That's the main issue with it.
Similar to MACO, the issue is the cooldown to usage ratio and the fact that -50 defense is pointless on STFs, which one must assume the STF sets were in fact designed for.
It might as well be a -50 to sense of humor for all that it actually does against the borg.
These are not set bonuses.
They are part of the shield, and the shields are all generally good.
My post is discussing the set bonuses which are largely weak and pointless.
At least some of the fleet stuff might be more appealing now? IDK.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
That 'someone' was probably me. But I was more wondering if the console that's being grandfathered in would likely be automatically considered Mk X, or what. Of course, until we see something more authoritative this is probably just speculation, although there may be people here with more experience of how this sort of thing is typically handled than I do, ergo one reason I asked.
Chillax. No Ego. No Drama.
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Considering this will probably require a T8 starbase that takes even the huge fleets another 5 months to build, and tens of millions of dilithium, I am not overly excited at this prospect, even though the consoles may indeed be awesome.
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
http://jupiterforce.org/showthread.php?22573-New-Borg-Set-and-chnages-to-the-old-Set
The borg cutting beam looks promising.
-PaxOttomana
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
[Combat (Self)] You lose 6549 (7572) Cold from the torment of the underworld.
In-game handle @Janetza
Now maybe they can fix the rest of the neglected sets!
For PvP that 9 sec gives you the advantage of getting your APA or SNB etc up faster than your opponent. For PvE there are otherthings like NWS where you don't really have down time and the faster the better. Why are you only focusing on STFs?
You speak of opportunity costs, but don't include the value of the individual items? This makes no sense. You should be evaluating the individual items and w/e set bonus they may or may not have. So what if the jem set's 2 part bonus gives a polaron damage boost if the pieces of it are too substandard for w/e task @ hand you're trying to accomplish?
You don't think a team of 5 players staggering 3 part maco w/TBRs has any use in PvE?
You know the defense to ACC ratio spills over into crit hits and damage? The more you debuff a target's defense the more crit hits and crit damage you'll do. The -50% defense boost not only your damage but your allies. It also boosts kinetic damage. Again a team of 5 players can stagger them debuff on the targets.
Torp builds can fire off a torp a second. Brels can fire them cloaked while laying rear mines. The stf borg torps come w/a 1k damage boost proc and you don't think they're useful?
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I foresee some folks rocking both Borg sets since every piece occupies a different slot.
A'jora
PS: clef-censoring rules