This future change (not yet definitive - it's still being worked on) doesn't really make me happy.
I rarely used the Borg 3-part set (the shield heal never impressed me, was almost allways negligeable in my parses). That allowed me to choose any 2-part set I wanted to use along the (needed - in my eyes, since largest heal excluding SDO doffs) 2-part Borg set.
After that change, I will only be able to get 1 set bonus (because any full existing set would be very underwhelming to me). And that bonus will have to be "Autonomous regeneration sequencer", given its necessity. So my only options now are to choose the shield to go with the Borg deflector and engine. Not a whole lot of variety.
Note: I'm talking from an STF playing PVEer standpoint.
This is exactly the reason they're changing it.
They were meant to be run as a 4-piece set. Instead, players chose to do a 2+2, using the Console to free up the Shield slot most of the time and getting the 2-piece bonus of another set.
The change is to put back the original intent of having to run the Shields, Engines, and Deflector all at the same time if you want all the set bonuses. The Tractor Beam was included as a 3-set additional bonus so as to not take that away should someone already be running the 3-piece set with the console.
As a fellow PvE'er, I don't like it either. But then again, that's why I stick with PvE. For me, this is a minor inconvenience. My play style relies on shields, so I just switch out Deflector or Engine to keep the 2-piece Borg bonus. If I were a PvP'er, I'd have to rethink my whole build before Season 7 hits.
As did I, numerous times AND I use it in my builds. I still think this change while good, doesn't go far enough.
Face it, the set is extremely overpowered and was a mistake from day one.
This pretty much.
Nothing wrong with full Maco or KHG other than they need to boost sector speed on both the KHG and Omega engines.
Some of us are still going to be tanky escorts because we know what we're doing and have our ships set up right, but I do have to agree. The Borg set has been ridiculous and this change needed to happen so that people actually start using other gear.
Might want to check out some of the fleet deflectors. Set bonuses aside, they're some of if not the best deflectors in the game. Try the positron with targetting on it. Much more tanky than the Omega deflector.
I think it only fair that both maco and khg get nerfed and broken up as well so everyone will be researching new builds.
There, that should let the maco and khg users know how the Borg set users feel. Not a lot of empathy in these forums, basically "I have a sandwich how can you be starving?" mentality.
I have decided that I will just mount the Borg shield and remove the console.
I have a Time ship and don't need these new weapons and I have many consoles I can replace the Borg one with.
I would post testing results, but server authentication is currently planned for Season 7......
I think it only fair that both maco and khg get nerfed and broken up as well so everyone will be researching new builds'
There, that should let the maco and khg users know how the Borg set users feel. Not a lot of empathy in these forums, basically "I have a sandwich how can you be starving?" mentality.
I've underlined the mistake here.
Virtually no one uses a full MACO/KHG set, who in their right mind passes up the benefits of the Borg set.
Even after the Borg Set Bonuses were toned down several months ago, nothing really changed. The vast majority of players continued to run Borg 2- or 3-piece, plus a shield of their choosing, benefiting from a design oversight to a degree that left combat in an imbalanced state.
I have used the Borg set pretty much since it was first introduced and earned it the hard way (far harder then the current method). Even though I'm still using it now, I'm more then well aware how overpowered it is and how much is needs to be nerfed. Even after this nerf, I'll still be using a 2-piece borg set.
Nothing like watching as some poor highly skilled escort captain tries his damned hardest to kill you, only to be stopped as the Borg set returns your hull and shields back to full health. No skill required whatsoever.
They were meant to be run as a 4-piece set. Instead, players chose to do a 2+2, using the Console to free up the Shield slot most of the time and getting the 2-piece bonus of another set.
The change is to put back the original intent of having to run the Shields, Engines, and Deflector all at the same time if you want all the set bonuses. The Tractor Beam was included as a 3-set additional bonus so as to not take that away should someone already be running the 3-piece set with the console.
As a fellow PvE'er, I don't like it either. But then again, that's why I stick with PvE. For me, this is a minor inconvenience. My play style relies on shields, so I just switch out Deflector or Engine to keep the 2-piece Borg bonus. If I were a PvP'er, I'd have to rethink my whole build before Season 7 hits.
Of course, it's not a tragedy, but as you say, an "inconvenience" it is. Just got to a point of thinking my half-dozen builds were fine as they were and that I could move to new ships. Sadly, I'll have to go back and re-evaluate all of the current builds.
And damn, time is so hard to come by. That's why I'm sad. If they rather nerfed SDO doffs, I wouldn't mind (even though I use them on about half of those builds).
(Also, if they actually get to boosting the 3-set bonuses, it will just throw in a couple more potentially useful combinations. Great for the game, sure, but again, "inconvenient" for me.)
EDIT: Sorry for the egoist rant, I just need some sleep...
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
The only way these changes are going to be good is if they made it more possible to get the omega / maco stuff.
Example:
I've been trying to get the prototype deflector and I've yet to get one. I quit trying after 3 weeks of doing KA Elite 5 times / day to get it. They need to make it where you can turn in say 5 or 10 Rare Engines, Deflectors, and shields and get the prototype version of it so you can actually get a full set.
Otherwise, imo, escorts are supposed to be big tanks. They're not supposed to be glass cannons and these changes do make a huge difference to a single class. The Borg set as it is right now, is worth the 15 ec's to upgrade if you don't feel like redoing all the quests and things to get a lvl 50 set that way.
But.. has anyone looked at the other set pieces @ lvl 50? Have they changed -all- the sets or just the borg set? Also, have they introduced a Fleet Set yet? Questions to be found out.
I think it only fair that both maco and khg get nerfed and broken up as well so everyone will be researching new builds.
There, that should let the maco and khg users know how the Borg set users feel. Not a lot of empathy in these forums, basically "I have a sandwich how can you be starving?" mentality.
I have decided that I will just mount the Borg shield and remove the console.
I have a Time ship and don't need these new weapons and I have many consoles I can replace the Borg one with.
I would post testing results, but server authentication is currently planned for Season 7......
Think you need to calm down a bit, you act like the game is going to be destroyed by this. Its not like they are removing the set from the game or the procs, if you depend so much on the borg set then you can still use it.
At least this way you can choose to use other sets. Maybe now the other sets will see some love or we will see new sets down the pipeline. Besides if you ask me like I said earlier in this thread...I think the new set with the old set might be even more OP and easy mode since I'm guessing you can't live without that.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I thought I posted quite calmly what I was going to personally do:
Not be drawn in to their next grind fest due to the new weapons bait.
So with me, and I'm sure others, this move is a fail as not only does it make me dislike their company more (always surprises me that that's possible) It also fails to elicit the response (further game involvement) that it is designed for. (other than their usual overreacting due to forum spammers.)
Like I said before, wouldn't be the first time this has happened in the MMO world and probably won't be the last. Its not the end of the world and I think it would be nice to have the option of using something else besides the Borg set.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
What would really be nice is the reasonable expectation that everything earned would remain as it is when received rather than having everything nerfed over and over again.
Why bother to "work" for something when they keep changing the rules?
What would really be nice is the reasonable expectation that everything earned would remain as it is when received rather than having everything nerfed over and over again.
Why bother to "work" for something when they keep changing the rules?
Because people make mistakes... I think the Dev sort of explained why they did it. The design of the borg set was based on people running a shield that didn't have a massive cap. I will say they should have seen that people would use half a brain and skirt the design intention I will give you that....
Frankly though if you play a MMO and you see some fantastic gear that seems to good to be true... you can safely assume someone screwed up and someone will correct it down the road. (and lets all be honest with ourselves... a free copy of Hazard Emitters 6 and Transfer Shield Strength 2.5 falls into that category, and heck thats after it's numbers where reduced once already. lol)
I do have to say though I find it funny when people say they "Worked" for there set. LMAO
Yes 2 complete rounds of STFs = Complete Borg Retro set... man what a grind. haha
You didn't do much work to earn the set, 10 EDC and doing 15 minute mission is nothing.
Next the set wasn't working as intended due to dev oversight, Bort has stated that being able to use 3pc set bonus with other shields was never their intention and their earlier fix by reducing set bonuses hasn't done enough to fix this problem.
Don't worry since you will be on even playing field with everyone else since this is a set everybody has. Its not like some ultra-rare item that takes weeks or months to grind out that only you and a few others have is being taken away.
Because people make mistakes... I think the Dev sort of explained why they did it. The design of the borg set was based on people running a shield that didn't have a massive cap.
At the same time, I really don't see the point in a set that has to have heal procs to compensate for a shield that is generally very bad at the very content it was designed for.
The concept of set gear should see you get an overall improvement.
So in my opinion, the original design was illogical.
At the same time, I really don't see the point in a set that has to have heal procs to compensate for a shield that is generally very bad at the very content it was designed for.
The concept of set gear should see you get an overall improvement.
So in my opinion, the original design was illogical.
Not sure that holds...
By itself the shield was not that powerful, although better than every other regenerative shield in game.
A regen shield has the advantage of being very sustainable once you overcome initial alpha spikes.
And once you have the set it becomes VERY VERY good at that.
Regen shields are the least popular, but they are one of three (four if you count standard shields) different valid playstyles.
The change/nerf to the Borg set simply must happen.
3x Borg + X (high capacity shield) -> that's still the magic formula.
The Borg Engine is still the most useful sector space engine. Maco XII comes only close, Omega XII is
It's really about time to change that.
The catch is that nerfing the Borg Set alone isn't the solution.
-> A complete re-balancing of all three major current sets is due.
This is important for the future. I mean we all know the Reman set. The shield is relatively good due to high capacity, but other than that and for looks, it's really not offering anything interesting.
This must change. And if the first step to bring balance and more interesting set powers into the game is to crush the old borg set, oh well, so be it!
The change/nerf to the Borg set simply must happen.
3x Borg + X (high capacity shield) -> that's still the magic formula.
The Borg Engine is still the most useful sector space engine. Maco XII comes only close, Omega XII is
It's really about time to change that.
The catch is that nerfing the Borg Set alone isn't the solution.
-> A complete re-balancing of all three major current sets is due.
This is important for the future. I mean we all know the Reman set. The shield is relatively good due to high capacity, but other than that and for looks, it's really not offering anything interesting.
This must change. And if the first step to bring balance and more interesting set powers into the game is to crush the old borg set, oh well, so be it!
As I said before this change is worthless unless we see.
Updates to the M.A.C.O / KHG / OMEGA sets
and even more importantly updates and Mk XII versions of Aegis, Jem Hadar and Breen sets. I already assumed they'd update the Reman.
At the same time, I really don't see the point in a set that has to have heal procs to compensate for a shield that is generally very bad at the very content it was designed for.
The concept of set gear should see you get an overall improvement.
So in my opinion, the original design was illogical.
Honesty the borg shield is very overrated... its the best regen shield in the game... I run the borg shield on many of my sci ships, I have even used it on a few escorts... Not that many people can handle a ship anymore unless they have 15k in shielding. lol
The fact that the shield has 20% less cap is no big deal when you factor in that fact it was designed to get a free on dmg TSS 2.5... makes sense to me if gear has ZERO draw back then it becomes needed and OP and nothing more then a stupid grind.
Well if they are going to actually go ahead with the change, then they need to put the borg heal bonuses back to there previous unnerfed state, and I mean way back to before the first nerf to even make it viable.
Even with doing that, the Aegis or even the Dominion set is a better set than the borg one now....
Well if they are going to actually go ahead with the change, then they need to put the borg heal bonuses back to there previous unnerfed state, and I mean way back to before the first nerf to even make it viable.
You mean back to when it healed 50% of your hull? Seriously, I think a lot of you people just want to be invincible.
Even with doing that, the Aegis or even the Dominion set is a better set than the borg one now....
They aren't even remotely better then the nerfed Borg set. Heck I've primarily been using a 2-piece borg set (borg engine and console) for a while now because it's heals are so useful.
You mean back to when it healed 50% of your hull? Seriously, I think a lot of you people just want to be invincible.
Near-invincibility is the only way to counter the God-mode elite NPCs and their "I win" weaponry we get because it's easier than having AIs use more complicated strategies to make them more challenging.
And don't give me any TRIBBLE about relying on teammates for healing. I don't know 5 people who log on at the same random times as me, so I'm stuck with power-leveled free-to-pay n00bs in pick-up games, and have to depend solely on myself for healing and resistance, while still trying to bring enough DPS to get through the mission before some clueless @sstard borks it for me.
Near-invincibility is the only way to counter the God-mode elite NPCs and their "I win" weaponry we get
Here we go again... :P
There's not one enemy attack in the game - including the "instakill torps-of-doom" - that can't be neutralised by careful positioning and/or the use of a BOFF ability. NPCs might not be able to change their tactics, but that doesn't mean that players are in the same boat.
And don't give me any TRIBBLE about relying on teammates for healing. I don't know 5 people who log on at the same random times as me, so I'm stuck with power-leveled free-to-pay n00bs in pick-up games, and have to depend solely on myself for healing and resistance, while still trying to bring enough DPS to get through the mission before some clueless @sstard borks it for me.
You don't need team healing to survive, trust me I pug space STFs and there's virtually no cross healing there (even when you've got 4 cruisers there).
2x tact team, 2x emergency power to shields, hazard emitters 1 and transfer shield strength 2 is more then enough to fend off the borg, even for a tac captain in an escort who has aggroed the tactical cube.
I know this annoys a lot of people, esspecially escort pilots who really lose out on tanking now.
But lets face it. Escorts are not really meant to be that tanky anyway.
Cruisers I am sure can compensate (esspecially since there seems to be a MK XII version of the Borg set now. Up till now it was only MK X?
.
I get this, but until Cryptic fixes the way agro is gained, Escorts are screwed
On my Defiant, i have all aoe abilities for probe control, yet i still pull agro all the time, its not as bad as single target dps skills though, with them i get agro and keep it until mobs is dead.
So unless they make it so a cruiser can actually hold agro, escorts are fracked.
I get this, but until Cryptic fixes the way agro is gained, Escorts are screwed
On my Defiant, i have all aoe abilities for probe control, yet i still pull agro all the time, its not as bad as single target dps skills though, with them i get agro and keep it until mobs is dead.
So unless they make it so a cruiser can actually hold agro, escorts are fracked.
My favorite trick for Agro-bait is to use a Hargh. that usually gets their attention.
Comments
This is exactly the reason they're changing it.
They were meant to be run as a 4-piece set. Instead, players chose to do a 2+2, using the Console to free up the Shield slot most of the time and getting the 2-piece bonus of another set.
The change is to put back the original intent of having to run the Shields, Engines, and Deflector all at the same time if you want all the set bonuses. The Tractor Beam was included as a 3-set additional bonus so as to not take that away should someone already be running the 3-piece set with the console.
As a fellow PvE'er, I don't like it either. But then again, that's why I stick with PvE. For me, this is a minor inconvenience. My play style relies on shields, so I just switch out Deflector or Engine to keep the 2-piece Borg bonus. If I were a PvP'er, I'd have to rethink my whole build before Season 7 hits.
This pretty much.
Nothing wrong with full Maco or KHG other than they need to boost sector speed on both the KHG and Omega engines.
Some of us are still going to be tanky escorts because we know what we're doing and have our ships set up right, but I do have to agree. The Borg set has been ridiculous and this change needed to happen so that people actually start using other gear.
Might want to check out some of the fleet deflectors. Set bonuses aside, they're some of if not the best deflectors in the game. Try the positron with targetting on it. Much more tanky than the Omega deflector.
There, that should let the maco and khg users know how the Borg set users feel. Not a lot of empathy in these forums, basically "I have a sandwich how can you be starving?" mentality.
I have decided that I will just mount the Borg shield and remove the console.
I have a Time ship and don't need these new weapons and I have many consoles I can replace the Borg one with.
I would post testing results, but server authentication is currently planned for Season 7......
I've underlined the mistake here.
Virtually no one uses a full MACO/KHG set, who in their right mind passes up the benefits of the Borg set.
I have used the Borg set pretty much since it was first introduced and earned it the hard way (far harder then the current method). Even though I'm still using it now, I'm more then well aware how overpowered it is and how much is needs to be nerfed. Even after this nerf, I'll still be using a 2-piece borg set.
Nothing like watching as some poor highly skilled escort captain tries his damned hardest to kill you, only to be stopped as the Borg set returns your hull and shields back to full health. No skill required whatsoever.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Of course, it's not a tragedy, but as you say, an "inconvenience" it is. Just got to a point of thinking my half-dozen builds were fine as they were and that I could move to new ships. Sadly, I'll have to go back and re-evaluate all of the current builds.
And damn, time is so hard to come by. That's why I'm sad. If they rather nerfed SDO doffs, I wouldn't mind (even though I use them on about half of those builds).
(Also, if they actually get to boosting the 3-set bonuses, it will just throw in a couple more potentially useful combinations. Great for the game, sure, but again, "inconvenient" for me.)
EDIT: Sorry for the egoist rant, I just need some sleep...
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Example:
I've been trying to get the prototype deflector and I've yet to get one. I quit trying after 3 weeks of doing KA Elite 5 times / day to get it. They need to make it where you can turn in say 5 or 10 Rare Engines, Deflectors, and shields and get the prototype version of it so you can actually get a full set.
Otherwise, imo, escorts are supposed to be big tanks. They're not supposed to be glass cannons and these changes do make a huge difference to a single class. The Borg set as it is right now, is worth the 15 ec's to upgrade if you don't feel like redoing all the quests and things to get a lvl 50 set that way.
But.. has anyone looked at the other set pieces @ lvl 50? Have they changed -all- the sets or just the borg set? Also, have they introduced a Fleet Set yet? Questions to be found out.
Think you need to calm down a bit, you act like the game is going to be destroyed by this. Its not like they are removing the set from the game or the procs, if you depend so much on the borg set then you can still use it.
At least this way you can choose to use other sets. Maybe now the other sets will see some love or we will see new sets down the pipeline. Besides if you ask me like I said earlier in this thread...I think the new set with the old set might be even more OP and easy mode since I'm guessing you can't live without that.
Not be drawn in to their next grind fest due to the new weapons bait.
So with me, and I'm sure others, this move is a fail as not only does it make me dislike their company more (always surprises me that that's possible) It also fails to elicit the response (further game involvement) that it is designed for. (other than their usual overreacting due to forum spammers.)
Other than the fact that some, or all, of their set bonuses are pointless.
Why bother to "work" for something when they keep changing the rules?
Because people make mistakes... I think the Dev sort of explained why they did it. The design of the borg set was based on people running a shield that didn't have a massive cap. I will say they should have seen that people would use half a brain and skirt the design intention I will give you that....
Frankly though if you play a MMO and you see some fantastic gear that seems to good to be true... you can safely assume someone screwed up and someone will correct it down the road. (and lets all be honest with ourselves... a free copy of Hazard Emitters 6 and Transfer Shield Strength 2.5 falls into that category, and heck thats after it's numbers where reduced once already. lol)
I do have to say though I find it funny when people say they "Worked" for there set. LMAO
Yes 2 complete rounds of STFs = Complete Borg Retro set... man what a grind. haha
Next the set wasn't working as intended due to dev oversight, Bort has stated that being able to use 3pc set bonus with other shields was never their intention and their earlier fix by reducing set bonuses hasn't done enough to fix this problem.
Don't worry since you will be on even playing field with everyone else since this is a set everybody has. Its not like some ultra-rare item that takes weeks or months to grind out that only you and a few others have is being taken away.
At the same time, I really don't see the point in a set that has to have heal procs to compensate for a shield that is generally very bad at the very content it was designed for.
The concept of set gear should see you get an overall improvement.
So in my opinion, the original design was illogical.
Not sure that holds...
By itself the shield was not that powerful, although better than every other regenerative shield in game.
A regen shield has the advantage of being very sustainable once you overcome initial alpha spikes.
And once you have the set it becomes VERY VERY good at that.
Regen shields are the least popular, but they are one of three (four if you count standard shields) different valid playstyles.
3x Borg + X (high capacity shield) -> that's still the magic formula.
The Borg Engine is still the most useful sector space engine. Maco XII comes only close, Omega XII is
It's really about time to change that.
The catch is that nerfing the Borg Set alone isn't the solution.
-> A complete re-balancing of all three major current sets is due.
This is important for the future. I mean we all know the Reman set. The shield is relatively good due to high capacity, but other than that and for looks, it's really not offering anything interesting.
This must change. And if the first step to bring balance and more interesting set powers into the game is to crush the old borg set, oh well, so be it!
As I said before this change is worthless unless we see.
Updates to the M.A.C.O / KHG / OMEGA sets
and even more importantly updates and Mk XII versions of Aegis, Jem Hadar and Breen sets. I already assumed they'd update the Reman.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Honesty the borg shield is very overrated... its the best regen shield in the game... I run the borg shield on many of my sci ships, I have even used it on a few escorts... Not that many people can handle a ship anymore unless they have 15k in shielding.
The fact that the shield has 20% less cap is no big deal when you factor in that fact it was designed to get a free on dmg TSS 2.5... makes sense to me if gear has ZERO draw back then it becomes needed and OP and nothing more then a stupid grind.
Even with doing that, the Aegis or even the Dominion set is a better set than the borg one now....
You mean back to when it healed 50% of your hull? Seriously, I think a lot of you people just want to be invincible.
They aren't even remotely better then the nerfed Borg set. Heck I've primarily been using a 2-piece borg set (borg engine and console) for a while now because it's heals are so useful.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Near-invincibility is the only way to counter the God-mode elite NPCs and their "I win" weaponry we get because it's easier than having AIs use more complicated strategies to make them more challenging.
And don't give me any TRIBBLE about relying on teammates for healing. I don't know 5 people who log on at the same random times as me, so I'm stuck with power-leveled free-to-pay n00bs in pick-up games, and have to depend solely on myself for healing and resistance, while still trying to bring enough DPS to get through the mission before some clueless @sstard borks it for me.
:mad:
Here we go again... :P
There's not one enemy attack in the game - including the "instakill torps-of-doom" - that can't be neutralised by careful positioning and/or the use of a BOFF ability. NPCs might not be able to change their tactics, but that doesn't mean that players are in the same boat.
You don't need team healing to survive, trust me I pug space STFs and there's virtually no cross healing there (even when you've got 4 cruisers there).
2x tact team, 2x emergency power to shields, hazard emitters 1 and transfer shield strength 2 is more then enough to fend off the borg, even for a tac captain in an escort who has aggroed the tactical cube.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
I get this, but until Cryptic fixes the way agro is gained, Escorts are screwed
On my Defiant, i have all aoe abilities for probe control, yet i still pull agro all the time, its not as bad as single target dps skills though, with them i get agro and keep it until mobs is dead.
So unless they make it so a cruiser can actually hold agro, escorts are fracked.
My character Tsin'xing