Wait? Are we discussing Escort vs. Cruiser vs. Sci ships, or are we discussing ninja-changes to the borg set?
Just need to figure this one out... thanks.
It was meant to be about the set, but someone bragged about escorts being nerfed down to cruiser level now, hence what started the off topic. :rolleyes:
Wow im just speachless, i drop 3,200 shields (from 14.5 to 11.2) and gain a useless Tractor beam with a HUGE cooldown - unless that gets changed
There is no more Borg tractor beam, because there is no more 4 piece set... so don't worry.
How far your shield strength drops depends on how powerful the Mk XII version is of teh Borg shield.. I don't think anyone has seen those numbers yet.
Can someone math that?
You can't be oblivious to your own bias here. You're already saying cruisers are weak. And you think that's good? That escorts are objectively superior to the other ship types?
Judging by the picture, you get the tractor beam as part of the 3 piece bonus, but I may be wrong...
So the shield, engine and deflector become a 3 piece and the console now becomes a new 3 pieces when you get a new borg torpdeo and cutting beam when ever they are added.
now i have not looked at all the stats so they may require adjustment but i dont mind the theory behind the change, as its now in keeping with the other sets.
STFs aren't the issue. Players skills are, in these instances. You can easily complete a STF with a full team of RA ships with green Mk XI gear equiped. Some people even completed a normal one with mirandas.
I'm only concerned because the borg set was the best science set and because it looks like we have no other sci set to compensate this loss. The borg shield is a real issue, it's not a shield it's a colander, and since there's no hull tanking in this game, this shield is a complete disaster. I'm really worried about the +5 aux power bonus given by the deflector, and the graviton build we could do with the current set.
I think the biggest disappointment here is that a lot of us were asking for more of the sets (Aegis for example) to be extended by adding a fourth item (console) - it would have added a lot of diversity to the game - and lots of full set/2-2/3-1 options.
Doing this nerfs the existing Borg set because that shield heal's going away for the majority of players (who won't use the Borg shield). The console becomes largely redundant (it's got good stats but I don't use them on their own any more).
Also - look at the cutting beam - [Dmg]x3? Yeah.
I can't see many people taking the full 6-part Borg set (weapons adds to the sets have largely been too fussy to get any use out of) so really, what was the point? I guess just to standardise on the 3-part sets.
Oh, and also to rank it so we'll have to grind for a new one when XIII becomes available...
What do you mean with rank them? They where always ranked. they just didn't say Mk X even though they were. the procs were the only reason people used them anymore.
If this is truly an "escort nerf", then I'd like to welcome escort pilots to where many people believe the science players have been... nerfed because of the "unintended effects" of power combinations after multiple repeated whines from the "escort" crowd...
Before: "Wah, gravity well with all sorts of Tac boosts from an MVAE = one hit kill". Bye Bye GW damage.
Before: "Wah, CPB strips way too much of my MACO XII shield when ran with Tac boosts." Bye Bye CPB damage.
Now: "Wah, we can't kill an escort without 5 escorts doing a perfectly coordinated Alpha Strike on all four shields at once." Bye Bye Borg shield proc reinforcing MACO/KHG XII shields.
On that (semi-sarcastic) note, remember that the whole purpose of these various sets is to actually have players make choices, instead of encouraging "cookie cutter" builds, such as the nigh-universally recommended 3 Piece Borg / MACO/KHG MK XII shield, or 2 piece Borg / 2 piece Omega/JH/Breen builds for weapon proc & hull regen.
Granted, regenerative shields are "lame" in the high-burst world of PvP, and massive damage world of late-game PvE. However, I'm wondering if a (logically postulated) Mk XII Borg Regenerative shield will hold up against a cruiser's "pressure DPS"?
Especially in light of the fact that, if escorts do become somewhat more squishy because of this change, the need to actively resist the heal-cruiser's pressure DPS may "return". Then you really start up the PvP chess match (I'm the anti-pressure escort, let me deal with the heal-boat, while the anti-burst escort deals with the other escorts that are trying to wipe me off the map).
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
What do you mean with rank them? They where always ranked. they just didn't say Mk X even though they were. the procs were the only reason people used them anymore.
I was never sure whether the Borg set was one that levels with you or not - I always assumed it did. Irrespective, there was only one version before - now there's Mk XI and XII - sure to be followed at some point by Mk XIII - yay for new content /sarcasm
2 pieces give you a bonus chance for hull repair which will give you up to 30% of your hull back.
3 pieces gives you a chance for a shield heal bonus which happens when your shields go below 20%.
4 pieces gives you a lame tractor beam.
Up until now, everyone has been using the borg engines, deflector, assimilated module (for the hull and shield healing set bonuses) and the MACO shield (which is the best shield in the game).
After season 7, they're removing the assimilated module as a set piece and making it a part of its own set. So, to get the 3rd set bonus shield heal I described above, you have to use the lame Borg shield.
Everyone is now QQing because of this.
I do not know QQing, but thank you for explaining. Is there a link to a dev post where this is talked about?
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Especially in light of the fact that, if escorts do become somewhat more squishy because of this change, the need to actively resist the heal-cruiser's pressure DPS may "return". Then you really start up the PvP chess match
Any incidental benefits to PvP are entirely by accident though (but I hope you're right) - this is about padding out the reputation system with reworked old content across multiple levels (XI/XII). I've a sneaking suspicion that you may not be able to choose whether you want that MkXI Borg cutting beam or not - you may have to grind it anyway to say unlock the Borg Mk XII Engines later on...
Just speculation, but yeah - Cryptic really are that dumb.
It sucks that they are nerfing, I can live with it...its not the end of the world. But lets hope this will lead to re-evaluation and perhaps buffing of M.A.C.O. , Omega, and KHG sets.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Still it doesn't go far enough, the 2-piece Borg set will still be a must have set for most, simply for the hull heals. What needs to be done is to rip out the borg hull heal proc, or make it so that it's part of the 3-piece set, with the tractor beam becoming part of the two piece.
As it is though, it's still overpowered. The set was a mistake from it's introduction and needs to be brought in line with the other sets.
So basically, it's a good start but doesn't go far enough.
As for those raging, try to see it from a balance perspective. It is overpowered, so overpowered in fact that even after the first nerf it's STILL overpowered. I use it myself and I'll be more then happy to see it get nerfed further, because that's exactly what it needs.
Still it doesn't go far enough, the 2-piece Borg set will still be a must have set for most, simply for the hull heals. What needs to be done is to rip out the borg hull heal proc, or make it so that it's part of the 3-piece set, with the tractor beam becoming part of the two piece.
As it is though, it's still overpowered. The set was a mistake from it's introduction and needs to be brought in line with the other sets.
It was the best science set for graviton generators, but now if we want any set bonus, we'll have to use the terrible borg shield or the not up to par maco space set (the 2 piece power is stupid and utterly useless). So I'll have to loose a lot of resilience or sci power efficiency.
I understand the need to nerf tanking, especially for escorts, but once again it looks like a science nerf, even if it wasn't the original purpose. I do hope that the new omega adapted borg tech won't force us to make a lot of sacrifices and have goot other set parts, because I really need the console on my science ship. :cool:
I'm not opposed to change but I hope the new omega adapted borg tech isn't a cheap set with terrible set parts, because I'll feat I have to loose the GREAT borg deflector with +5 to aux. That's already a huge nerf for scis.
I don't see it as about that.
The Borg set is supposed to be a starter set that MACO/Omega Force replace.
Making it the only 4 piece set in the game made it something too tempting, especially when the console required no STFs.
I'll still use the console because it's a way to pump damage out of a non-Tac console. But that Mk XII MACO engine can come back out of the bank.
Seriously?? You guys really think it's that OP? I haven't used the Borg set in over a year now - after the last run of nerfs it just seemed really - meh. I hardly ever even use the console now.
It's bland, it's ugly (the ship mods and the VFX are hideous) and the only people that use it religiously are min/maxxers who'll stick with a given setup irrespectively if they think they get 0.5% more mojo from it.
TRIBBLE around with the Borg set is just wasted development effort in my opinion. They're monkeying around with existing content only to repackage it and present it as 'new' content.
And to put it another way - all of the development effort that's gone into futzing with the Borg set could've resulted in a) a completely new set or b) a revamp of Aegis (which could really use some love) - unfortunately the Aegis set doesn't fit neatly into their new Omega grind so they've left it to rot.
Especially in light of the fact that, if escorts do become somewhat more squishy because of this change, the need to actively resist the heal-cruiser's pressure DPS may "return".
After this change, a possible change to tactical Team and possibly adjusting the BFI DOffs, Escorts may become squishy enough that none of the proposed changes will be needed for Cruisers or Engineers that have been given in other threads.
Though I would still like to see them come about anyways just to enhance gameplay choices.
So, knowing that the Borg set is getting nerfed, I'll probably go for a full set MACO or OMEGA. I've got one MkXII piece of each and will therefore have to work to obtain the rest. Should I be going for full OMEGA or full MACO?
2-piece borg set plus Maco shield appears to be the best by the looks of it.
You don't need a full set of either (now anyway - bear in mind they may change too) - the 3 part bonus for each is pretty weak (Heavy Graviton Beam for the MACO and Gravitic Anchor for the Omega) - out of the two, the Gravitic Anchor is the more useful toy but it's still a toy.
If you're only interested in functionality get the MACO shields and then whatever combination of Engine and Deflector works for you. MACO engines are faster in sector space (at the price of the wibbly-wobbly warp bubble - some like it, some hate it), Omega engines have a faster cooldown on Quantum Slipstream etc.
Comments
It was meant to be about the set, but someone bragged about escorts being nerfed down to cruiser level now, hence what started the off topic. :rolleyes:
Valdus | Charn | Costello | Typhus | Thyran
Going to make it difficult to mix and match sets when you can only get one set bonus.
Well apart from mixing the new Omega Adapted Borg console with the beam or torp and another set...
There is no more Borg tractor beam, because there is no more 4 piece set... so don't worry.
How far your shield strength drops depends on how powerful the Mk XII version is of teh Borg shield.. I don't think anyone has seen those numbers yet.
Can someone math that?
Ohh thats true, well whoop de doo i lose huge amount of shields for nothing then, i think im going to a darkened room and cry
Shield had better be better /grumble /grumble
EDIT - looking at the pics you do get a free Tractor beam for a 3 piece........with a HUGE cooldown
The Borg Tractor Beam is now part of the 3-piece bonus.
Judging by the picture, you get the tractor beam as part of the 3 piece bonus, but I may be wrong...
Well, i guess no one is complaining getting that power with one less set piece I guess.
now i have not looked at all the stats so they may require adjustment but i dont mind the theory behind the change, as its now in keeping with the other sets.
I'm only concerned because the borg set was the best science set and because it looks like we have no other sci set to compensate this loss. The borg shield is a real issue, it's not a shield it's a colander, and since there's no hull tanking in this game, this shield is a complete disaster. I'm really worried about the +5 aux power bonus given by the deflector, and the graviton build we could do with the current set.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
and don't get comfortable, more changes are incomming........
R.I.P
Doing this nerfs the existing Borg set because that shield heal's going away for the majority of players (who won't use the Borg shield). The console becomes largely redundant (it's got good stats but I don't use them on their own any more).
Also - look at the cutting beam - [Dmg]x3? Yeah.
I can't see many people taking the full 6-part Borg set (weapons adds to the sets have largely been too fussy to get any use out of) so really, what was the point? I guess just to standardise on the 3-part sets.
Oh, and also to rank it so we'll have to grind for a new one when XIII becomes available...
Before: "Wah, gravity well with all sorts of Tac boosts from an MVAE = one hit kill". Bye Bye GW damage.
Before: "Wah, CPB strips way too much of my MACO XII shield when ran with Tac boosts." Bye Bye CPB damage.
Now: "Wah, we can't kill an escort without 5 escorts doing a perfectly coordinated Alpha Strike on all four shields at once." Bye Bye Borg shield proc reinforcing MACO/KHG XII shields.
On that (semi-sarcastic) note, remember that the whole purpose of these various sets is to actually have players make choices, instead of encouraging "cookie cutter" builds, such as the nigh-universally recommended 3 Piece Borg / MACO/KHG MK XII shield, or 2 piece Borg / 2 piece Omega/JH/Breen builds for weapon proc & hull regen.
Granted, regenerative shields are "lame" in the high-burst world of PvP, and massive damage world of late-game PvE. However, I'm wondering if a (logically postulated) Mk XII Borg Regenerative shield will hold up against a cruiser's "pressure DPS"?
Especially in light of the fact that, if escorts do become somewhat more squishy because of this change, the need to actively resist the heal-cruiser's pressure DPS may "return". Then you really start up the PvP chess match (I'm the anti-pressure escort, let me deal with the heal-boat, while the anti-burst escort deals with the other escorts that are trying to wipe me off the map).
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I was never sure whether the Borg set was one that levels with you or not - I always assumed it did. Irrespective, there was only one version before - now there's Mk XI and XII - sure to be followed at some point by Mk XIII - yay for new content /sarcasm
Exactly what roach just said.
Oh no, we're going to have to adjust our tactics, and builds.
Keeps the game interesting.
I do not know QQing, but thank you for explaining. Is there a link to a dev post where this is talked about?
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Any incidental benefits to PvP are entirely by accident though (but I hope you're right) - this is about padding out the reputation system with reworked old content across multiple levels (XI/XII). I've a sneaking suspicion that you may not be able to choose whether you want that MkXI Borg cutting beam or not - you may have to grind it anyway to say unlock the Borg Mk XII Engines later on...
Just speculation, but yeah - Cryptic really are that dumb.
"Cryptic, ruining Star Trek Online one season at a time..."
JustGaming4US - https://www.youtube.com/user/JustGaming4Us/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/Brent_Justice
Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/brentjustice
Still it doesn't go far enough, the 2-piece Borg set will still be a must have set for most, simply for the hull heals. What needs to be done is to rip out the borg hull heal proc, or make it so that it's part of the 3-piece set, with the tractor beam becoming part of the two piece.
As it is though, it's still overpowered. The set was a mistake from it's introduction and needs to be brought in line with the other sets.
So basically, it's a good start but doesn't go far enough.
As for those raging, try to see it from a balance perspective. It is overpowered, so overpowered in fact that even after the first nerf it's STILL overpowered. I use it myself and I'll be more then happy to see it get nerfed further, because that's exactly what it needs.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Agreed, nerf it good baby
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I don't see it as about that.
The Borg set is supposed to be a starter set that MACO/Omega Force replace.
Making it the only 4 piece set in the game made it something too tempting, especially when the console required no STFs.
I'll still use the console because it's a way to pump damage out of a non-Tac console. But that Mk XII MACO engine can come back out of the bank.
It's bland, it's ugly (the ship mods and the VFX are hideous) and the only people that use it religiously are min/maxxers who'll stick with a given setup irrespectively if they think they get 0.5% more mojo from it.
TRIBBLE around with the Borg set is just wasted development effort in my opinion. They're monkeying around with existing content only to repackage it and present it as 'new' content.
And to put it another way - all of the development effort that's gone into futzing with the Borg set could've resulted in a) a completely new set or b) a revamp of Aegis (which could really use some love) - unfortunately the Aegis set doesn't fit neatly into their new Omega grind so they've left it to rot.
After this change, a possible change to tactical Team and possibly adjusting the BFI DOffs, Escorts may become squishy enough that none of the proposed changes will be needed for Cruisers or Engineers that have been given in other threads.
Though I would still like to see them come about anyways just to enhance gameplay choices.
R.I.P
2-piece borg set plus Maco shield appears to be the best by the looks of it.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
If you're only interested in functionality get the MACO shields and then whatever combination of Engine and Deflector works for you. MACO engines are faster in sector space (at the price of the wibbly-wobbly warp bubble - some like it, some hate it), Omega engines have a faster cooldown on Quantum Slipstream etc.
MACO is more defensive, Omega is more offensive.