Seriously?? You guys really think it's that OP? I haven't used the Borg set in over a year now - after the last run of nerfs it just seemed really - meh. I hardly ever even use the console now.
It's bland, it's ugly (the ship mods and the VFX are hideous) and the only people that use it religiously are min/maxxers who'll stick with a given setup irrespectively if they think they get 0.5% more mojo from it.
TRIBBLE around with the Borg set is just wasted development effort in my opinion. They're monkeying around with existing content only to repackage it and present it as 'new' content.
And to put it another way - all of the development effort that's gone into futzing with the Borg set could've resulted in a) a completely new set or b) a revamp of Aegis (which could really use some love) - unfortunately the Aegis set doesn't fit neatly into their new Omega grind so they've left it to rot.
I think it's OP that you could get a 3 piece set bonus while getting a 2 piece from another engine/shields set or using a shield that was better than the Borg shield, yeah. Especially since the Borg set was supposed to be outclassed by Omega Force/MACO.
After this change, a possible change to tactical Team and possibly adjusting the BFI DOffs, Escorts may become squishy enough that none of the proposed changes will be needed for Cruisers or Engineers that have been given in other threads.
Though I would still like to see them come about anyways just to enhance gameplay choices.
They may need to look at nerfing STFs once they quash all the elite math semi-exploits though. Elite ones, anyway.
See, I've never seen that the Borg stuff should be outclassed by Omega/MACO - sure it's easier to earn, but it's just another option. And honestly, since I've switched to full MACO in my Excelsior I haven't missed the Borg gear at all.
Maybe there's been one or two PvP matches where those procs might've saved my TRIBBLE but there's so little in it that I'm not going to sacrifice a build I enjoy for a build that might be more durable.
Once upon a time the Borg set was uber - it isn't any more and hasn't been for a long time. It certainly didn't need working over.
See, I've never seen that the Borg stuff should be outclassed by Omega/MACO - sure it's easier to earn, but it's just another option. And honestly, since I've switched to full MACO in my Excelsior I haven't missed the Borg gear at all.
Maybe there's been one or two PvP matches where those procs might've saved my TRIBBLE but there's so little in it that I'm not going to sacrifice a build I enjoy for a build that might be more durable.
Once upon a time the Borg set was uber - it isn't any more and hasn't been for a long time. It certainly didn't need working over.
It was stated by Cryptic to be a Mk X starter set.
Why would "another option" cost 5 EDC a piece when the MACO or Omega Force Mk X costs 20?
2 pieces give you a bonus chance for hull repair which will give you up to 30% of your hull back.
3 pieces gives you a chance for a shield heal bonus which happens when your shields go below 20%.
4 pieces gives you a lame tractor beam.
Up until now, everyone has been using the borg engines, deflector, assimilated module (for the hull and shield healing set bonuses) and the MACO shield (which is the best shield in the game).
After season 7, they're removing the assimilated module as a set piece and making it a part of its own set. So, to get the 3rd set bonus shield heal I described above, you have to use the lame Borg shield.
Everyone is now QQing because of this.
You mean...
People are going to have to make choices!?
In an RPG!?
Say it isn't so!
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
It was stated by Cryptic to be a Mk X starter set.
Why would "another option" cost 5 EDC a piece when the MACO or Omega Force Mk X costs 20?
Because it's old i.e. 'Retro' - new hotness is always expensive.
And honestly, I don't care whether it's considered Mk X, Mk XII or whatever - it didn't need this work done on it. The reasons for doing the work are not to balance it against the MACO/Omega sets or to promote diversity (they could've done that a long time ago but it's always been 'working as intended').
They've done it to make you grind again for something you already had at a different level.
They've done it because splitting up the Borg set and adding two unremarkable pieces (at two different levels) is cheaper and quicker than building something new and interesting.
The Borg set was fine as it was, and it was good value for the EDCs - heck, it even meant that players that hated STFs could get a decent set of end-game gear for relatively little pain.
Meddling with it like this is unnecessary and wasteful (two Cryptic hallmarks).
See, this coulda been cool if they made it all a single 6-piece set so people could choose the combination that suits them. Instead, they're forcing me to choose between losing my multi-regenerative shield heal bonus, and running that POS Borg shield; between having no set bonus at all from the Module, or running a weapon type I don't @#%$ing want.
Will likely go for a combo - as I said, I have one MkXII piece of each (Omega & MACO) set so will likely go for Omega MkXII engine, MACO MkXII shield and decide on the deflector once I have the prototype tech to actually obtain one!
Choose wisely! On their own, I feel the Omega engines are inferior to the MACO ones - with the Omega deflector as well though you get the Tetryon Glider which *is* worth what you lose from the MACO side. Ultimately though you should aim for having a set of both so you can tinker with the combinations
Id prefer more dynamic sets from the devs rather than nerfing a whole class just because the devs only know how to nerf...
That's cute. I never exploited this and I do great. I do so much damage that I end up tanking the majority of STFs I'm on, and I manage to keep myself alive without a lot of trouble. In a Hegh'ta on one character, and a Fleet Escort Retrofit on another. Nerfing a whole class indeed.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Because it's old i.e. 'Retro' - new hotness is always expensive.
And honestly, I don't care whether it's considered Mk X, Mk XII or whatever - it didn't need this work done on it. The reasons for doing the work are not to balance it against the MACO/Omega sets or to promote diversity (they could've done that a long time ago but it's always been 'working as intended').
They've done it to make you grind again for something you already had at a different level.
They've done it because splitting up the Borg set and adding two unremarkable pieces (at two different levels) is cheaper and quicker than building something new and interesting.
The Borg set was fine as it was, and it was good value for the EDCs - heck, it even meant that players that hated STFs could get a decent set of end-game gear for relatively little pain.
Meddling with it like this is unnecessary and wasteful (two Cryptic hallmarks).
Speccing is about choices. Gear is about setting goals to get more choices.
Of course many players wouldn't care what Mark it was if they could get more out of it but from a design standpoint, Mk X outclassing Mk XI or Mk XII items that COST MORE represents a design flaw.
Costlier things should perform better.
And while we're at it, maybe a dev would take a look at why certain expensive ground weapons underperform and why 50 Lobi 29th century weapons that are less powerful than 23rd century weapons that can be had in a single mission replay.
See, this coulda been cool if they made it all a single 6-piece set so people could choose the combination that suits them. Instead, they're forcing me to choose between losing my multi-regenerative shield heal bonus, and running that POS Borg shield; between having no set bonus at all from the Module, or running a weapon type I don't @#%$ing want.
:mad:
If they'd have made it a 6 piece, I think you could expect a restructuring of the order you get the bonuses in. Keep in mind that they're adding different MARKS of Borg gear with these changes and that set bonuses do not work with gear of different marks. A 6 piece bonus would be a nightmare to keep your bonuses up in and I suspect they would have put the shields and hull regen on the 5 and 6 piece set bonus and put less impressive bonuses at the lower tiers.
Other than the fact that, being regenerative, their base point count is low which means that alpha spikes and the massive 30k+ late game deathbolts get through easier?
I've lived very well with regen shields on my sci ships before, especially when I run a 50+ in base shield power (that regen makes sphere pressure DPS = nothing). However, having moved onto a more weapons/aux based power scheme for quick probe squishing, I find the extra shield points from the MACO or even Omega are more useful for keeping me alive long enough for my buddy the escort to pop a sphere and my heals handle the second sphere...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
awww, the squishy little escorts are gonna be squishy again, [sarcasm]What an awful shame[/sarcasm]
SCM - Infected(S) - DMG Out: 11,776,567 DPS: 114,224.70 (28.7% of Team) - Pinky@ukcaptain420 I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Speccing is about choices. Gear is about setting goals to get more choices.
Agreed - and *expanding* more of the sets to include consoles would have increased the amount of choice massively (something repeatedly asked for by the community) Splitting the Borg off into one desirable (but weaker than previously) set and one frankly pointless set is reducing choice.
Of course many players wouldn't care what Mark it was if they could get more out of it but from a design standpoint, Mk X outclassing Mk XI or Mk XII items that COST MORE represents a design flaw.
And again, the 'fact' that the Borg set 'outclasses' the MACO/Omega is merely a point-of-view (as is mine that it doesn't) - the procs are good, yes but they're not nearly as effective as they once were.
Borg set is like armor plating - simple, obvious - easy to slap on and enjoy the benefits of irrespective of your skill level and experience (and taste in ship aesthetics).
MACO and Omega are more subtle, more tactical and offer a lot in exchange for slightly less protection. They actually encourage experimenting with play-style (and spec) to maximise the rewards they offer - exactly what good end-level gear designed for experienced players should do.
Or perform differently and uniquely which MACO/Omega/KHG do - I've never once felt cheated about the huge number of STFs I've had to run to get my MACO and Omega gear because IMO it *is* superior to the Borg stuff - you've just got to put the work in to get the best out of it.
And while we're at it, maybe a dev would take a look at why certain expensive ground weapons underperform and why 50 Lobi 29th century weapons that are less powerful than 23rd century weapons that can be had in a single mission replay.
Something that'll require you completely respeccing into some obscure science skill plus binning all your Field Generators to get any kind of damage out of whatsoever. Oh, and if you're not a Tac, forget about it
Without knowing the stats I would guess it is a beam weapon that produces kinetic damage and bypasses shields somewhat if the original Borg version is anything to go by.
Without knowing the stats I would guess it is a beam weapon that produces kinetic damage and bypasses shields somewhat if the original Borg version is anything to go by.
And will be standard issue for Borg NPCs, once again establishing that Cryptic somehow thinks that making existing content harder prolongs its life when every other MMO developer on the market tries to release content in its hardest form on launch day and shy of correcting for unintended power combos in player hands or bugs/exploits, patches to content should make hard content easier and never make easy content harder.
The raw amount of healing being done by BFI duty officers in STO is obscene. I mean really? More heals done than emergency power to shields is acceptable? More than TSS 3 is working as intended? And it took a player with a chart to point out this problem? You think set re-balancing is a priority issue? Pfft....
I have a hard time believing that this is directed at nerfing tanky escorts which is all some seem focused on. This is forward thinking for something else liable to become apparent once the gear reputation system makes it into the game. Perhaps, the sets are becoming more role focused and less mixable based on that set revamp which might be a good thing in times to come as no ship will be able to be everything on the field.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
And will be standard issue for Borg NPCs, once again establishing that Cryptic somehow thinks that making existing content harder prolongs its life when every other MMO developer on the market tries to release content in its hardest form on launch day and shy of correcting for unintended power combos in player hands or bugs/exploits, patches to content should make hard content easier and never make easy content harder.
But the Borg already have that cutting beam. Everything that is at least a cube uses it I believe?
In this case we got an existing NPC ability instead of the other way around.
Has there been any word on what's going to happen with the existing Borg console and its mission?
I'm wondering if I should have my toons push forward to play that particular mission, even though I haven't gotten there yet in the storyline. If this means it's going to be tons harder to get it, better grab it now, though I don't know how much better it is if the end-mission drop version's going to be a crippled Mk X.
It was stated by Cryptic to be a Mk X starter set.
Why would "another option" cost 5 EDC a piece when the MACO or Omega Force Mk X costs 20?
Agreed 100%. Borg gear is supposed to be a stepping stone that is above very-rare-level Exchange-available gear, but below Omega/MACO quality. Simply because people have used it in its current state and now they've got to exert effort to change their builds, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
Gear adjustments occur constantly in MMOs. I don't know why this would come as a huge surprise, it's not *that* big of a deal.
Has there been any word on what's going to happen with the existing Borg console and its mission?
Now that is a very good thought. All of my toons get at least one Assimilated Module as soon as I rank them high enough to acquire it, but I actually like each ship to have its own equipment so I don't have to swap it around. Time to spin through Assimilation one more time in preparation for my Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit.
Simply because people have used it in its current state and now they've got to exert effort to change their builds, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
No, it's a bad thing because it's hitting me with a nerf I did not need. Doubly bad because it placates whiny cruiser captains with DPS envy. :rolleyes:
I've read through most of this thread and I'm looking for a little confirmation.
In my Escort build (PvE only), I use the Aegis Engines, Borg Console, Borg Deflector and Borg Shields.
As I understand it, my 3-piece set now becomes a 2-piece set - meaning that I lose the 'shield boost' proc but not the 'hull repair' proc?
The reason I lose it, is because the console is now part of a separate set entirely?
So to get my 'shield boost' proc back, I need to swap Aegis Engines for Borg Engines and run the full Borg set?
Assuming the above is true - that wouldn't really give me much reason to keep the borg console and to attempt to find an alternative that provides better/similar buffs.
A shame as the 'shield boost' proc did come in very handy at times - is this actually live on holodeck now or is this a proposed change?
I've read through most of this thread and I'm looking for a little confirmation.
In my Escort build (PvE only), I use the Aegis Engines, Borg Console, Borg Deflector and Borg Shields.
As I understand it, my 3-piece set now becomes a 2-piece set - meaning that I lose the 'shield boost' proc but not the 'hull repair' proc?
The reason I lose it, is because the console is now part of a separate set entirely?
So to get my 'shield boost' proc back, I need to swap Aegis Engines for Borg Engines and run the full Borg set?
Assuming the above is true - that wouldn't really give me much reason to keep the borg console and to attempt to find an alternative that provides better/similar buffs.
A shame as the 'shield boost' proc did come in very handy at times - is this actually live on holodeck now or is this a proposed change?
I'd think if you'd drop anything, it would be the shields/engine/deflector.
The Borg console is still a damage-boosting universal console.
Speaking of adding more options for us all, the thought occurs to me that they may have plans to add more console/weapon sets. After all if they didn't everyone would go for the new Borg set for the bonuses, right?
I don't think this change is as bad as many believe it to be. I've always thought that they should add a 4th piece to each set other than the Borg set of course, just so there is balance, but now they're removing the 4th piece from the original Borg set so that'll no longer be a concern, there will be balance once again as well as many more choices to think about. The sets should offer choices rather than there be a single set that everyone uses or mixes with another, the ability to mix the Borg set with other sets was never intended.
Comments
I think it's OP that you could get a 3 piece set bonus while getting a 2 piece from another engine/shields set or using a shield that was better than the Borg shield, yeah. Especially since the Borg set was supposed to be outclassed by Omega Force/MACO.
They may need to look at nerfing STFs once they quash all the elite math semi-exploits though. Elite ones, anyway.
Maybe there's been one or two PvP matches where those procs might've saved my TRIBBLE but there's so little in it that I'm not going to sacrifice a build I enjoy for a build that might be more durable.
Once upon a time the Borg set was uber - it isn't any more and hasn't been for a long time. It certainly didn't need working over.
It was stated by Cryptic to be a Mk X starter set.
Why would "another option" cost 5 EDC a piece when the MACO or Omega Force Mk X costs 20?
You mean...
People are going to have to make choices!?
In an RPG!?
Say it isn't so!
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Because it's old i.e. 'Retro' - new hotness is always expensive.
And honestly, I don't care whether it's considered Mk X, Mk XII or whatever - it didn't need this work done on it. The reasons for doing the work are not to balance it against the MACO/Omega sets or to promote diversity (they could've done that a long time ago but it's always been 'working as intended').
They've done it to make you grind again for something you already had at a different level.
They've done it because splitting up the Borg set and adding two unremarkable pieces (at two different levels) is cheaper and quicker than building something new and interesting.
The Borg set was fine as it was, and it was good value for the EDCs - heck, it even meant that players that hated STFs could get a decent set of end-game gear for relatively little pain.
Meddling with it like this is unnecessary and wasteful (two Cryptic hallmarks).
:mad:
Choose wisely! On their own, I feel the Omega engines are inferior to the MACO ones - with the Omega deflector as well though you get the Tetryon Glider which *is* worth what you lose from the MACO side. Ultimately though you should aim for having a set of both so you can tinker with the combinations
That's cute. I never exploited this and I do great. I do so much damage that I end up tanking the majority of STFs I'm on, and I manage to keep myself alive without a lot of trouble. In a Hegh'ta on one character, and a Fleet Escort Retrofit on another. Nerfing a whole class indeed.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Speccing is about choices. Gear is about setting goals to get more choices.
Of course many players wouldn't care what Mark it was if they could get more out of it but from a design standpoint, Mk X outclassing Mk XI or Mk XII items that COST MORE represents a design flaw.
Costlier things should perform better.
And while we're at it, maybe a dev would take a look at why certain expensive ground weapons underperform and why 50 Lobi 29th century weapons that are less powerful than 23rd century weapons that can be had in a single mission replay.
If they'd have made it a 6 piece, I think you could expect a restructuring of the order you get the bonuses in. Keep in mind that they're adding different MARKS of Borg gear with these changes and that set bonuses do not work with gear of different marks. A 6 piece bonus would be a nightmare to keep your bonuses up in and I suspect they would have put the shields and hull regen on the 5 and 6 piece set bonus and put less impressive bonuses at the lower tiers.
Other than the fact that, being regenerative, their base point count is low which means that alpha spikes and the massive 30k+ late game deathbolts get through easier?
I've lived very well with regen shields on my sci ships before, especially when I run a 50+ in base shield power (that regen makes sphere pressure DPS = nothing). However, having moved onto a more weapons/aux based power scheme for quick probe squishing, I find the extra shield points from the MACO or even Omega are more useful for keeping me alive long enough for my buddy the escort to pop a sphere and my heals handle the second sphere...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Agreed - and *expanding* more of the sets to include consoles would have increased the amount of choice massively (something repeatedly asked for by the community) Splitting the Borg off into one desirable (but weaker than previously) set and one frankly pointless set is reducing choice.
And again, the 'fact' that the Borg set 'outclasses' the MACO/Omega is merely a point-of-view (as is mine that it doesn't) - the procs are good, yes but they're not nearly as effective as they once were.
Borg set is like armor plating - simple, obvious - easy to slap on and enjoy the benefits of irrespective of your skill level and experience (and taste in ship aesthetics).
MACO and Omega are more subtle, more tactical and offer a lot in exchange for slightly less protection. They actually encourage experimenting with play-style (and spec) to maximise the rewards they offer - exactly what good end-level gear designed for experienced players should do.
Or perform differently and uniquely which MACO/Omega/KHG do - I've never once felt cheated about the huge number of STFs I've had to run to get my MACO and Omega gear because IMO it *is* superior to the Borg stuff - you've just got to put the work in to get the best out of it.
No disagreements there
And if they were accepting suggestions:
Set 2: Autonomous Regeneration Sequencer.
Set 3: Multi-Regenerative Shield Array.
Set 4: Reactive Deflection.
Set 5: Omega Weapon Amplifier.
Set 6: Assimilated Tractor Beam
This would make me much happier.
:cool:
Strangely enough, I'll probably love it...
And will be standard issue for Borg NPCs, once again establishing that Cryptic somehow thinks that making existing content harder prolongs its life when every other MMO developer on the market tries to release content in its hardest form on launch day and shy of correcting for unintended power combos in player hands or bugs/exploits, patches to content should make hard content easier and never make easy content harder.
I have a hard time believing that this is directed at nerfing tanky escorts which is all some seem focused on. This is forward thinking for something else liable to become apparent once the gear reputation system makes it into the game. Perhaps, the sets are becoming more role focused and less mixable based on that set revamp which might be a good thing in times to come as no ship will be able to be everything on the field.
But the Borg already have that cutting beam. Everything that is at least a cube uses it I believe?
In this case we got an existing NPC ability instead of the other way around.
I'm wondering if I should have my toons push forward to play that particular mission, even though I haven't gotten there yet in the storyline. If this means it's going to be tons harder to get it, better grab it now, though I don't know how much better it is if the end-mission drop version's going to be a crippled Mk X.
Agreed 100%. Borg gear is supposed to be a stepping stone that is above very-rare-level Exchange-available gear, but below Omega/MACO quality. Simply because people have used it in its current state and now they've got to exert effort to change their builds, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
Gear adjustments occur constantly in MMOs. I don't know why this would come as a huge surprise, it's not *that* big of a deal.
Now that is a very good thought. All of my toons get at least one Assimilated Module as soon as I rank them high enough to acquire it, but I actually like each ship to have its own equipment so I don't have to swap it around. Time to spin through Assimilation one more time in preparation for my Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit.
No, it's a bad thing because it's hitting me with a nerf I did not need. Doubly bad because it placates whiny cruiser captains with DPS envy. :rolleyes:
Sigh.
In my Escort build (PvE only), I use the Aegis Engines, Borg Console, Borg Deflector and Borg Shields.
As I understand it, my 3-piece set now becomes a 2-piece set - meaning that I lose the 'shield boost' proc but not the 'hull repair' proc?
The reason I lose it, is because the console is now part of a separate set entirely?
So to get my 'shield boost' proc back, I need to swap Aegis Engines for Borg Engines and run the full Borg set?
Assuming the above is true - that wouldn't really give me much reason to keep the borg console and to attempt to find an alternative that provides better/similar buffs.
A shame as the 'shield boost' proc did come in very handy at times - is this actually live on holodeck now or is this a proposed change?
What were you speccing into that you wouldn't now?
Ground changes could force respeccing more.
Most of space is going to be determined by what class of ship you fly and your weapons loadout.
I'd think if you'd drop anything, it would be the shields/engine/deflector.
The Borg console is still a damage-boosting universal console.
It belongs in the sci slot of any escort.
Speaking of adding more options for us all, the thought occurs to me that they may have plans to add more console/weapon sets. After all if they didn't everyone would go for the new Borg set for the bonuses, right?
I don't think this change is as bad as many believe it to be. I've always thought that they should add a 4th piece to each set other than the Borg set of course, just so there is balance, but now they're removing the 4th piece from the original Borg set so that'll no longer be a concern, there will be balance once again as well as many more choices to think about. The sets should offer choices rather than there be a single set that everyone uses or mixes with another, the ability to mix the Borg set with other sets was never intended.