Bah I don't want cross faction visiting of bridges to be fixed. If it is a bug, lets keep that one. Not all bugs are bad. Look at ladybugs for example.
Did you actually read what the GM wrote or did you only read what you wanted?
I believe the GM said.. to translate in your example:
You should run away from the mugger and call the police (file a ticket)..
Not Stay there, get mugged, possibly kicked in the skull and cry in a forum about it.
Also read my little text 3 pages ago
My good sir, clearly you speak in jest. Running away from a mugger! Well i never. I have servants who run away from muggers for me. I even have servants who run away from muggers for my servants!
Yes i will call these goonsqaud players idiots incase you havent met them before i have and they are nothing more than that. I have had personal experiances with them in another game before where they openly admitted they were out to destroy the game. So unless you know all the facts as i do from not hearsay but personally seen it i have every right to call them idiots. I am not calling anyone else but these self bragging goonsquad players idiots which they are they will only look for ways to detract from the game.
They clarified that: they were never out to destroy the game, they were out to destroy your game. Their leader said he gets joy from seeing your precious spaceship you just bought for lots of ISK get blown up. Luckily, STO is not a game where things like this can happen, unlike EVE, which is open ended and severely dark in mindset. Ok, yes, right now things like this can happen, but it is going to be removed, as per a GM's quote.
I also hope they don't remove the ability to invite cross factionally to bridges, just remove the ability to PvP there.
If you must get all of your undergarments in a twist, try thinking of it this way:
If you start limiting this and that you make STO into even more of a rail shooter than it already sometimes seems. Unpredictable chaos is a good thing in a vibrant, engaging, living universe.
The switch instance capability is the equivalent of jumping between mirror universes. If you don't like what the bearded Spocks of the Terran Empire Dental corps are doing, get your Kari Wuhrer on and slide out. You can't control other players and why would you want to? Go play Oblivion if you want predictable behavior.
Considering that the exploding ships can so easily be avoided I would consider it more along the lines of exploitation of game mechanics then griefing, and action according to that.
Exploitation of game mechanics? Cryptic put it in there. Almost everyone knows about, and we've known about it since beta.
Exploitation = using a broken/bugged game mechanic to achieve an advantage over others. Exploding ships in social areas like Earth Spacedock is not an exploit. It's an un-intentional mechanic that people are enjoying (or loathing) and that Cryptic is not fixing. How many patches have gone by since this was known? Dozens.
If it was a harmful exploit it would have been fixed in the next patch.
As for the Abandon Ship ability itself (with requirement of eject warp plasma, ramming speed, etc.), I completely agree with you that changing the instance stops any "perceived" griefing. On another note:
Griefing = preventing someone from progressing in-game or repeatedly robbing them of some sort of resources or form of trade (ie: energy credits due to repair bills, etc.)
Since STO has no death penalty (yet?), there is no griefing. Since players can avoid others by switching instances, there is no griefing. Sure, those people who think it's funny to put down cover shields in front of doors/walkways are annoying, but problem is solved by switching instances. Same thing with PvP. Sure, the BoP or Escort that keeps spawn camping you is annoying, but problem solved by switching instances. Now if a player followed another player around from one instance to the next, then that's harassment.
Until there are death penalties in-game or the inability to switch instances, there really is no such think as griefing or exploits in social areas. For the bridge trapping, that is griefing if there is no way to leave by switching instances or getting to the doorway to escape.
I had fun with the abandon ship when I first got it a while back. It lasted all of about 30 minutes or so with 8 others near Earth Spacedock who were doing it as a team. It was so much fun that others without it joined us to let themselves explode and make even a bigger explosion. But the fun is fleeting, and ships can always impulse away, warp out, or change instances. If there was a way to trap players there, then that would be griefing and an exploit.
Exploitation of game mechanics? Cryptic put it in there. Almost everyone knows about, and we've known about it since beta.
Exploitation = using a broken/bugged game mechanic to achieve an advantage over others. Exploding ships in social areas like Earth Spacedock is not an exploit. It's an un-intentional mechanic that people are enjoying (or loathing) and that Cryptic is not fixing. How many patches have gone by since this was known? Dozens.
If it was a harmful exploit it would have been fixed in the next patch.
As for the Abandon Ship ability itself (with requirement of eject warp plasma, ramming speed, etc.), I completely agree with you that changing the instance stops any "perceived" griefing. On another note:
Griefing = preventing someone from progressing in-game or repeatedly robbing them of some sort of resources or form of trade (ie: energy credits due to repair bills, etc.)
Since STO has no death penalty (yet?), there is no griefing. Since players can avoid others by switching instances, there is no griefing. Sure, those people who think it's funny to put down cover shields in front of doors/walkways are annoying, but problem is solved by switching instances. Same thing with PvP. Sure, the BoP or Escort that keeps spawn camping you is annoying, but problem solved by switching instances. Now if a player followed another player around from one instance to the next, then that's harassment.
Until there are death penalties in-game or the inability to switch instances, there really is no such think as griefing or exploits in social areas. For the bridge trapping, that is griefing if there is no way to leave by switching instances or getting to the doorway to escape.
I had fun with the abandon ship when I first got it a while back. It lasted all of about 30 minutes or so with 8 others near Earth Spacedock who were doing it as a team. It was so much fun that others without it joined us to let themselves explode and make even a bigger explosion. But the fun is fleeting, and ships can always impulse away, warp out, or change instances. If there was a way to trap players there, then that would be griefing and an exploit.
erm....so I'm guessing that everyone's opinion on this issue will change once they do implement a DP? If this is just harmless fun...at the expense of others...without a DP then this will become griefing when we get a DP...yes?
rofl sounds like goonfleet is doing their job like they do in all their games, beating people and ****ing them off at the same time. Biggest bunch of crybabies ever. Get over it.
erm....so I'm guessing that everyone's opinion on this issue will change once they do implement a DP? If this is just harmless fun...at the expense of others...without a DP then this will become griefing when we get a DP...yes?
If some sort of Death Penalty was implemented in-game, then yes, I would not do this to my fellow gamer because I do not want them to suffer some penalty as a result of something I did. Also, I wouldn't really want to mindlessly inflect that upon my self either since my ship would also be destroyed. And of course I would then be happy to let others label this abandon ship behavior as griefing.
Since there is no DP now, there's really nothing special about re-spawning back into the exact same location after a few seconds.
Really get over it. You have options to escape if you dont like it.
#1. exit the game!
#2. log out
#3. change the instance
#4. survive
People are going to do this no matter what you do so just deal with it, because it happend in every game... EVERY GAME!!
While I completely agree about getting over it (players do complain about the most trivial of things), your point 1 and 2 would break the description of griefing. The GM mentioned that griefing is something that the victim can't escape in-game only.
Please don't "fix" the cross faction bridges, our Fleet has been having some really great Role Playing sessions with Klingon Faction RPers on the bridge of a ship. If this is taken away, you'll be taking away something that is keeping us from being bored with nothing else to do while we await more content patches in the future.
The fix is to make bridges "neutral territory", where neither faction can attack the other. You will still be able to invite cross faction.
The "Paying Customer" defense is almost always used by people who don't care that everyone else is a paying customer. Not just in MMOs, but everywhere there are consumers. Certain people inherently feel that their 15$ is more valuable than someone elses 15$.
You stop people from doing this and their gameplay will be effected in an irreparable and permanent way. People do it to you and your gameplay is effected in a way that you have multiple viable ways to escape it and it's not constant.
Honestly, I think that prolonged ship explosions and the like are quite childish, but people spending more time complaining about it that they would avoiding it is even more childish.
If some sort of Death Penalty was implemented in-game, then yes, I would not do this to my fellow gamer because I do not want them to suffer some penalty as a result of something I did. Also, I wouldn't really want to mindlessly inflect that upon my self either since my ship would also be destroyed. And of course I would then be happy to let others label this abandon ship behavior as griefing.
Since there is no DP now, there's really nothing special about re-spawning back into the exact same location after a few seconds.
True, but will Cryptic face difficulties in the future if this goes from being harmless fun to griefing? I'm just wondering if we all might be better severed if Cryptic displayed some form of consistency. For an accepted "play style", and one known to irritate other people, to suddenly become griefing just because Cryptic changes the game seems shortsighted to me.
So I was busy doing my GM thing when Meskurra sends me a PM asking if klingons are supposed to be able to go onto a fed ship. As long as I have been playing STO going on bridges has been cross faction, so I said yes. Meskurra then asked me to teleport to them to check something out.
I GM-magiked myself over and saw the "bridge of death." Turns out that players had been sending in stuck tickets because they could not get out, which was how we became aware of the problem. Meskurra was there teleporting everyone out who asked.
So like: Wow, there seems to be some griefing going on, let's sit back and eat popcorn. Oh they can't get out? Wow they even exploit the game, lets teleport the whiners out and watch how the rest dies... what a decision to make :P
At first I was in awe because that was the type of pvp I have been wanting in STO, then I was not happy because of all the extra work it was giving us.
Yeah, you wouldn't have any work if you just banned the griefers.
And that you think griefing is the way to go for STO PVP.. well, It sure is more pvpish then no pvp at all.
To get on the bridge you have to be specifically invited. If you accept an invite then you are consenting to what happens. So joining a cross faction bridge for pvp is not considered being griefed.
That wasn't the griefing part, the griefing part was that they couldn't get out!
Then I hear talk about not being able to leave the bridge. If people were trapped on a cross faction bridge than I was going to have a HUGE problem. To the tune of removing everyone involved from the game. I did some investigation and found that if you stood by the door you could leave, even if you were in combat.
At that point I was ok with everything. Maybe I got there too late, or I left too early but once I asked for them to stop blocking the exit they did. I sat there invisible for quite a while and waited for them to block the exit again so I could action them (If I am expected to sit and baby sit for that long I better be able to ban someone) but they did not. Everyone in the zone who asked was teleported outside.
So it was fully ok that they did block the exit fully knowing what they were doing until you commanded them to leave?
Well, it's funny that the goons are such little kittys that don't want to get banned and follow every order of a gm dillegently, but that doesn't change the fact that they were griefing.
And I don't really get why a GM comes here to defend them.
The fix is to make bridges "neutral territory", where neither faction can attack the other. You will still be able to invite cross faction.
because your getting rid of the only all level pvp, will you be adding in a new event so cross faction fleets can still do pvp that includes people of all levels?
True, but will Cryptic face difficulties in the future if this goes from being harmless fun to griefing? I'm just wondering if we all might be better severed if Cryptic displayed some form of consistency. For an accepted "play style", and one known to irritate other people, to suddenly become griefing just because Cryptic changes the game seems shortsighted to me.
We need to be careful about associating the word "irritate" with "griefing". The two are not the same. It can irritate me when someone destroys my ship in PvP, but that has nothing to do with griefing. As anyone playing PvP should, I accept it, learn from my mistakes (or from their tactics), and plot my revenge.
Cryptic isn't shortsighted here either. It's more like an oversight for a mechanic they didn't intend. It will probably be fixed later just like the Red Matter Capacitor stacking. Then when we get the patch, the problem will be solved: we'll all have invincible ships. j/k
The fix is to make bridges "neutral territory", where neither faction can attack the other. You will still be able to invite cross faction.
Can you make this optional with a warning ? IE - "You are entering a bridge with open PVP enabled are you sure you wish to enter this zone" so that you can still allow folks to RP KvF combat on their bridges if they want.
The "Paying Customer" defense is almost always used by people who don't care that everyone else is a paying customer. Not just in MMOs, but everywhere there are consumers. Certain people inherently feel that their 15$ is more valuable than someone elses 15$.
You stop people from doing this and their gameplay will be effected in an irreparable and permanent way. People do it to you and your gameplay is effected in a way that you have multiple viable ways to escape it and it's not constant.
Honestly, I think that prolonged ship explosions and the like are quite childish, but people spending more time complaining about it that they would avoiding it is even more childish.
Well DUH of course my $15 dollars is more important then everyone else's because I used crayons and made pretty pretty pictures of Kittens on them.
I've never seen such a bunch of crybabies/carebares/fanbois/*****es/children on a single forum in my entire life, let alone an internet gaming forum. The star-trek brings em out i suppose, i'd imagine this is these trekkies first delve into the internet gaming world, welcome, and prepare for an exciting journey. Here are some rules for you useless crybabies
1. On the internets, you are always wrong, especially on opinion based conversations.
2. I drive a Ferrari and bang supermodels every night, you are a fat nerd in your mothers basement (prolly true)
3. Arguing on the interwebs is pointless
at least, those are some rules. Now stop griefing me on these forums with your crying and complaining.
Tell me about a judge that accepts that answer from Con Artists who swindle folks. :rolleyes:
Goons have griefed every game they enter en masse. Personally, I'm of the opinion that if a guild/fleet/supergroup/whatever identifies itself as a part of the Goon 'nation', every member gets preemptively banned to save time, trouble, and paperwork.
Tell me about a judge that accepts that answer from Con Artists who swindle folks. :rolleyes:
Goons have griefed every game they enter en masse. Personally, I'm of the opinion that if a guild/fleet/supergroup/whatever identifies itself as a part of the Goon 'nation', every member gets preemptively banned to save time, trouble, and paperwork.
This isn't a court of law buddy, its a video game.
Also whoever operates within the rules laid out by Cryptic shouldn't be banned or suspended or killed, or whatever else you want to see happen to them.
Comments
My good sir, clearly you speak in jest. Running away from a mugger! Well i never. I have servants who run away from muggers for me. I even have servants who run away from muggers for my servants!
They clarified that: they were never out to destroy the game, they were out to destroy your game. Their leader said he gets joy from seeing your precious spaceship you just bought for lots of ISK get blown up. Luckily, STO is not a game where things like this can happen, unlike EVE, which is open ended and severely dark in mindset. Ok, yes, right now things like this can happen, but it is going to be removed, as per a GM's quote.
I also hope they don't remove the ability to invite cross factionally to bridges, just remove the ability to PvP there.
If you start limiting this and that you make STO into even more of a rail shooter than it already sometimes seems. Unpredictable chaos is a good thing in a vibrant, engaging, living universe.
The switch instance capability is the equivalent of jumping between mirror universes. If you don't like what the bearded Spocks of the Terran Empire Dental corps are doing, get your Kari Wuhrer on and slide out. You can't control other players and why would you want to? Go play Oblivion if you want predictable behavior.
I'll take the glorious chaos.
-Mind you, Goon bites can be nasty.-
One line stands out... Id like to get my Kari Wuhrer on
Oh yeah, and something about chaos. Good times.
Exploitation of game mechanics? Cryptic put it in there. Almost everyone knows about, and we've known about it since beta.
Exploitation = using a broken/bugged game mechanic to achieve an advantage over others. Exploding ships in social areas like Earth Spacedock is not an exploit. It's an un-intentional mechanic that people are enjoying (or loathing) and that Cryptic is not fixing. How many patches have gone by since this was known? Dozens.
If it was a harmful exploit it would have been fixed in the next patch.
As for the Abandon Ship ability itself (with requirement of eject warp plasma, ramming speed, etc.), I completely agree with you that changing the instance stops any "perceived" griefing. On another note:
Griefing = preventing someone from progressing in-game or repeatedly robbing them of some sort of resources or form of trade (ie: energy credits due to repair bills, etc.)
Since STO has no death penalty (yet?), there is no griefing. Since players can avoid others by switching instances, there is no griefing. Sure, those people who think it's funny to put down cover shields in front of doors/walkways are annoying, but problem is solved by switching instances. Same thing with PvP. Sure, the BoP or Escort that keeps spawn camping you is annoying, but problem solved by switching instances. Now if a player followed another player around from one instance to the next, then that's harassment.
Until there are death penalties in-game or the inability to switch instances, there really is no such think as griefing or exploits in social areas. For the bridge trapping, that is griefing if there is no way to leave by switching instances or getting to the doorway to escape.
I had fun with the abandon ship when I first got it a while back. It lasted all of about 30 minutes or so with 8 others near Earth Spacedock who were doing it as a team. It was so much fun that others without it joined us to let themselves explode and make even a bigger explosion. But the fun is fleeting, and ships can always impulse away, warp out, or change instances. If there was a way to trap players there, then that would be griefing and an exploit.
Awesome...!
erm....so I'm guessing that everyone's opinion on this issue will change once they do implement a DP? If this is just harmless fun...at the expense of others...without a DP then this will become griefing when we get a DP...yes?
#1. exit the game!
#2. log out
#3. change the instance
#4. survive
People are going to do this no matter what you do so just deal with it, because it happend in every game... EVERY GAME!!
If some sort of Death Penalty was implemented in-game, then yes, I would not do this to my fellow gamer because I do not want them to suffer some penalty as a result of something I did. Also, I wouldn't really want to mindlessly inflect that upon my self either since my ship would also be destroyed. And of course I would then be happy to let others label this abandon ship behavior as griefing.
Since there is no DP now, there's really nothing special about re-spawning back into the exact same location after a few seconds.
Haha, and because you're a paying costumer all of the other costumers have to bend your will? Nice logic you got there.
While I completely agree about getting over it (players do complain about the most trivial of things), your point 1 and 2 would break the description of griefing. The GM mentioned that griefing is something that the victim can't escape in-game only.
The fix is to make bridges "neutral territory", where neither faction can attack the other. You will still be able to invite cross faction.
You stop people from doing this and their gameplay will be effected in an irreparable and permanent way. People do it to you and your gameplay is effected in a way that you have multiple viable ways to escape it and it's not constant.
Honestly, I think that prolonged ship explosions and the like are quite childish, but people spending more time complaining about it that they would avoiding it is even more childish.
Ah, nice.
True, but will Cryptic face difficulties in the future if this goes from being harmless fun to griefing? I'm just wondering if we all might be better severed if Cryptic displayed some form of consistency. For an accepted "play style", and one known to irritate other people, to suddenly become griefing just because Cryptic changes the game seems shortsighted to me.
Yeah, you wouldn't have any work if you just banned the griefers.
And that you think griefing is the way to go for STO PVP.. well, It sure is more pvpish then no pvp at all.
That wasn't the griefing part, the griefing part was that they couldn't get out!
So it was fully ok that they did block the exit fully knowing what they were doing until you commanded them to leave?
Well, it's funny that the goons are such little kittys that don't want to get banned and follow every order of a gm dillegently, but that doesn't change the fact that they were griefing.
And I don't really get why a GM comes here to defend them.
because your getting rid of the only all level pvp, will you be adding in a new event so cross faction fleets can still do pvp that includes people of all levels?
You'd think all of the people crying would have died of dehydration by now...
Well since the ingame pvp is so nice, flaming others in the official board is the only fun we get from our subscription.
And you did make an idiot question mark there.
We need to be careful about associating the word "irritate" with "griefing". The two are not the same. It can irritate me when someone destroys my ship in PvP, but that has nothing to do with griefing. As anyone playing PvP should, I accept it, learn from my mistakes (or from their tactics), and plot my revenge.
Cryptic isn't shortsighted here either. It's more like an oversight for a mechanic they didn't intend. It will probably be fixed later just like the Red Matter Capacitor stacking. Then when we get the patch, the problem will be solved: we'll all have invincible ships.
Can you make this optional with a warning ? IE - "You are entering a bridge with open PVP enabled are you sure you wish to enter this zone" so that you can still allow folks to RP KvF combat on their bridges if they want.
I just joined it because I follow the dev tracker and a community rep/gm posted in here recently.
Well DUH of course my $15 dollars is more important then everyone else's because I used crayons and made pretty pretty pictures of Kittens on them.
1. On the internets, you are always wrong, especially on opinion based conversations.
2. I drive a Ferrari and bang supermodels every night, you are a fat nerd in your mothers basement (prolly true)
3. Arguing on the interwebs is pointless
at least, those are some rules. Now stop griefing me on these forums with your crying and complaining.
Tell me about a judge that accepts that answer from Con Artists who swindle folks. :rolleyes:
Goons have griefed every game they enter en masse. Personally, I'm of the opinion that if a guild/fleet/supergroup/whatever identifies itself as a part of the Goon 'nation', every member gets preemptively banned to save time, trouble, and paperwork.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Dionaea
This isn't a court of law buddy, its a video game.
Also whoever operates within the rules laid out by Cryptic shouldn't be banned or suspended or killed, or whatever else you want to see happen to them.
also this is an awesome idea, we need more stuff like this