So if i wanted all clothes, i have to buy preorder, deluxe edition, special edition, gold edition, liftime subscription, taco bells, walmart stocks, collectors edition and points for this strange c-store ?
So if i wanted all clothes, i have to buy preorder, deluxe edition, special edition, gold edition, liftime subscription, taco bells, walmart stocks, collectors edition and points for this strange c-store ?
You'd also need to go back in time and get a lifetime subscription to Champions.
You'd also need to go back in time and get a lifetime subscription to Champions.
Marty! Marty, there's a matter of grave importance! The future has a shortage of Mirror Universe uniforms so we need to go BACK to August 2009 and purchase a Champions Online Lifetime Account!
Marty! Marty, there's a matter of grave importance! The future has a shortage of Mirror Universe uniforms so we need to go BACK to August 2009 and purchase a Champions Online Lifetime Account!
If reasonable people read the ad and "assumed" it meant male and female Mirror Universe uniforms, and the seller failed to disclose that it did not include male and female uniforms, they are inducing consumers into a transaction whom otherwise would not have entered had that information been disclosed. That practice is illegal and it's a cause of action for misrepresentation and deceptive trade practices.
In simpler language, if a painter advertises he will paint the outside of your house, you assume he's going to paint all four sides and not just do half the house and call it done. If he tells you later his fee did not include the entire outside, then he's ripping you off. You can demand he finish the job, give you a refund, or otherwise you can sue his butt.
And in legal terms you're living in fantasy land, if the contract didn't specify what you were getting then you just assumed and don't have a leg to stand on, the end.
And in legal terms you're living in fantasy land, if the contract didn't specify what you were getting then you just assumed and don't have a leg to stand on, the end.
Thank you, Judge Lt Expendable. Are you done practicing law without a license yet?
Your own version of what's obvious. One that is apparently based entirely on your own opinion.
Fact is, it comes down to a matter of definitions.
I'll be honest, I consulted a lawyer about this last week because I was concerned that Cryptic would throw us a fake bone and expect us to accept it.
Here's what it amounts to:
They specified "TOS Uniform" and "Mirror Universe Uniform". They did not delineate exactly what they meant by that in the advertisement. However, it is specific enough that in the end, the deciding factor in the case would likely be what an expert on Star Trek uniforms considers a "TOS Uniform" or a "Mirror Universe Uniform." Experts have already spoken on the inaccuracies of the female TOS uniform. And this is just on accuracy.
Since an era or style for Mirror Universe Uniform was not specified, it could have any appearance, as long as it's called "Mirror Universe Uniform." But it or comparable would need to be available to both genders since it was not explicitly excluded for one or the other.
As to gender: unless they specified that it would only be useful for male characters, it is reasonable to assume that it would be available to characters of both genders. Especially given that the purchase of the Mirror Universe uniforms all predate the date of September 1st, 2009 and were supposed to be delivered, according to the sales contract (advertising a product and taking someone's money for it is a sales contract) on February 2nd. This kind of purchase made far in advance with such specific advertising as "Mirror Universe Uniform", it ends up being an issue of whether the uniform being male only or not would be a deciding factor.
Nearly everyone I have spoken to (now, I've said this before and I hate repeating myself) about the issue agrees that even if they were to play a male character, they would still want matching female uniforms for their female bridge crew. So it is definitely a deciding factor.
I'll agree, the advertising is slightly nebulous. However, Lt.Expendable you are *not* a judge. You are *not* a lawyer. Neither am I, therefore I will confer the matter to my lawyer and should it come down to a suit, to the judge involved. I will not confer it to you, nor would I recommend that anyone confer it to you any more than I would recommend they confer it to me. This is a matter for lawyers and judges to sort out, not opinionated players exhibiting the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Now, would you kindly stop giving out fallacious legal advice to people on the forums?
All I'm telling you to do is to stop spamming this thread with these ridiculous threats, if you want to waste your money on a futile cause go right ahead.
Your own version of what's obvious. One that is apparently based entirely on your own opinion.
Fact is, it comes down to a matter of definitions.
I'll be honest, I consulted a lawyer about this last week because I was concerned that Cryptic would throw us a fake bone and expect us to accept it.
Here's what it amounts to:
They specified "TOS Uniform" and "Mirror Universe Uniform". They did not delineate exactly what they meant by that in the advertisement. However, it is specific enough that in the end, the deciding factor in the case would likely be what an expert on Star Trek uniforms considers a "TOS Uniform" or a "Mirror Universe Uniform." Experts have already spoken on the inaccuracies of the female TOS uniform. And this is just on accuracy.
Since an era or style for Mirror Universe Uniform was not specified, it could have any appearance, as long as it's called "Mirror Universe Uniform." But it or comparable would need to be available to both genders since it was not explicitly excluded for one or the other.
As to gender: unless they specified that it would only be useful for male characters, it is reasonable to assume that it would be available to characters of both genders. Especially given that the purchase of the Mirror Universe uniforms all predate the date of September 1st, 2009 and were supposed to be delivered, according to the sales contract (advertising a product and taking someone's money for it is a sales contract) on February 2nd. This kind of purchase made far in advance with such specific advertising as "Mirror Universe Uniform", it ends up being an issue of whether the uniform being male only or not would be a deciding factor.
Nearly everyone I have spoken to (now, I've said this before and I hate repeating myself) about the issue agrees that even if they were to play a male character, they would still want matching female uniforms for their female bridge crew. So it is definitely a deciding factor.
I'll agree, the advertising is slightly nebulous. However, Lt.Expendable you are *not* a judge. You are *not* a lawyer. Neither am I, therefore I will confer the matter to my lawyer and should it come down to a suit, to the judge involved. I will not confer it to you, nor would I recommend that anyone confer it to you any more than I would recommend they confer it to me. This is a matter for lawyers and judges to sort out, not opinionated players exhibiting the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Now, would you kindly stop giving out fallacious legal advice to people on the forums?
and i wish you luck, i mean gods man we have a post right on these forums showing how to do a ToS uni using photoshop on a ingame model. Might i also suggest you get the guy who had cs tell him MU was male only to forward you the letter, it would prove as damining evidence, also get pics of the descriptions...hold on i snapped a pick of the lifetime co snafu might have something for MU promises as well
Internet lawyers make me laugh. Good luck with that case, buddy. I mean, we hear about people suing MMO developers and winning cases over trivial paper doll items aaaaall the ti-oh wait no we don't. In fact, the only thing google can turn up is a possible patent case that probably holds as much water as your average colander.
It seems pretty obvious to me (especially based on actual dev posts) that they wanted to give us something to use while they worked to improve it. Much like the Klingon faction, it's better to have something that can be tweaked than just a promise of an addition somewhere down the line.
I tweaked all my BO's on my Mudd gimmick character to have giant boobies and skirts yesterday and am glad I had the option to do so. Most of them were even done for free because I was too cheap to waste my free modification. I am swimming in Energy Credits at Lt Cmdr 7 though, so even if I'd had to pay it wouldn't have been anything approaching a big deal.
Hey I was wondering (and I could very well be wrong) but shouldn't the TNG Movie Badge be available with the DS9 uniform? I think there was a time between where they were using the old TNG Series badge and when they started using the new grey shouldered uniform where they switched out only the commbadge. I'm sitting at the character creator right now and the only commbadge other than the STO Retro* Style badges is the TNG Series badge.
*By "Retro" I mean the standard STO Badges which are very reminiscent of the TOS Assignment patches.
Internet lawyers make me laugh. Good luck with that case, buddy. I mean, we hear about people suing MMO developers and winning cases over trivial paper doll items aaaaall the ti-oh wait no we don't. In fact, the only thing google can turn up is a possible patent case that probably holds as much water as your average colander.
It seems pretty obvious to me (especially based on actual dev posts) that they wanted to give us something to use while they worked to improve it. Much like the Klingon faction, it's better to have something that can be tweaked than just a promise of an addition somewhere down the line.
I tweaked all my BO's on my Mudd gimmick character to have giant boobies and skirts yesterday and am glad I had the option to do so. Most of them were even done for free because I was too cheap to waste my free modification. I am swimming in Energy Credits at Lt Cmdr 7 though, so even if I'd had to pay it wouldn't have been anything approaching a big deal.
Eh.. When has this ever even happened before? Keep in mind that this is paid DLC, not just some content that was promised at release but ended up having to be pushed back/abandoned! It's also not a free bonus, despite the constant referal of them being preorder items! It was something that was paid money for and expected on it's February 2nd release date..
Nothing like this has happened before to my knowledge!
I do appreciate the artist's hard work and hope they continue to improve on the design.. That's the nicest thing I can say about the situation.. I can't fault anyone for being angry and upset even after/if these are perfected.
Eh.. When has this ever even happened before? Keep in mind that this is paid DLC, not just some content that was promised at release but ended up having to be pushed back/abandoned! It's also not a free bonus, despite the constant referal of them being preorder items! It was something that was paid money for and expected on it's February 2nd release date..
The problem is that it isn't DLC and it was one of several different extra items that came with the DDE.
Nothing like this has happened before to my knowledge!
Precedent doesn't exist the other way around, either.
I do appreciate the artist's hard work and hope they continue to improve on the design.. That's the nicest thing I can say about the situation.. I can't fault anyone for being angry and upset even after/if these are perfected.
I will fault people for being whiny, entitled babies about things that the dev team have acknowledged as problems and promised to resolve. Especially when the game has been out for less than a month. Especially when they started five minutes after the server launched with the official day one patch.
The problem is that it isn't DLC and it was one of several different extra items that came with the DDE.
You're confused, this has nothing to do with the DDE.
Precedent doesn't exist the other way around, either.
Players have sued MMO companies before, e.g. EA (Ultima Online) and Blizzard (WOW).
MMO companies have sued players before, e.g. Mythic (DAOC) and Funcom (AO).
Not this exact issue though if that's what you meant. MMO companies do not usually do this kind of thing.
Google is not the place to look. Consult Lexis-Nexis or your law library.
I will fault people for being whiny, entitled babies about things that the dev team have acknowledged as problems and promised to resolve. Especially when the game has been out for less than a month. Especially when they started five minutes after the server launched with the official day one patch.
You've come to the discussion late and are missing the facts. People are mad because support has been telling them they are NOT going to provide something that they thought was included in a $150 CO lifetime subscription.
It does come with a Terran Empire badge on the right breast. I can excuse the lack of medallions though - those probably have to be earned from conquering worlds and subduing aliens and whatnot. :cool:
For what it's worth, I think the characters and uniforms look great and I compliment the artists. If the delay is simply they wish to do it right and make it look good, I can forgive them.
I agree the MU shirt looks great but skimping on details isn't acceptable to me... including the medals. I would have additional medals unlock as you gain rank. Or at the very least, a drop-down to just add them to the shirt.
Lot's of attention to detail was given to Starship avatars. The artists did a wonderful job. I think it's a shame we don't have the same attention given to character clothing.
In any case, I will take Female MU Uniforms over terran medallions any day!
People are mad because support has been telling them they are NOT going to provide something that they thought was included in a $150 CO lifetime subscription.
$200 lifetime subscription actually. In some cases multiples because they have family members.
To Geekboy:
Making ridiculous statements regarding "entitlement" is a little played out. The fact is that if you pay for a thing, you are entitled to that thing. Sometimes a sense of entitlement is firmly grounded in reality. Every single CO Lifetimer actually IS entitled to every item on the features list. Only half of one of the expected features has been delivered.
I look at it this way. I go to a car dealer and purchase something that is supposed to mean that I can get the next car that comes out with a "leather interior", When the next car comes out, the "leather interior" meant just the back to the driver's side chair, not the seat or any of the other seats. This is deceptive marketing, possibly very illegal, and no amount of the usual "omg! you have an undue sense of entitlement" is going to make the problem go away.
Also, it's not about a paperdoll. It's about money spent. Don't you get it? Either we want my money back or we want what we paid for. The nature of what we paid for does not matter. It simply does not matter. We paid for a thing, therefore we are entitled to that thing; yet we did not get that thing. It really is that simple.
A sense of entitlement is only inappropriate if you are not in fact entitled to something. TOS uniforms including miniskirts were advertised, they were a selling point, for a more expensive version of the game than the standard copy without the uniforms. Some reasonable representation of the TOS uniforms is what we are entitled to receive. The current miniskirt and men's uniform top combination is not a reasonable representation. It may be a miniskirt, but it is not a TOS uniform miniskirt.
For the benefit of the devs and any detailed discussion, here are some large pictures of Uhura's uniform, including many detail shots.
And my suggestion for how to implement it, based on the limitations that I am aware of such as the placement of the combadge. Here
The question is what needs to be included to make any uniform qualify as a TOS miniskirt? What doesn't matter too much if it is not exactly right?
The sleeves are rather short, being above the wrist. That is something that doesn't matter much and would not be worth the headache of the artist trying to accommodate, as it would probably be much easier to use the same length as the other uniform tops.
There were several variations on how the seams were arranged on the uniforms, but I am partial to the diagonal seams from the last season. I think they are make it a little more visually interesting and might be a bit more fun for the artist, as modern graphic artists seem to dislike leaving plain areas that arent filled with noodling and details, sometimes to the detriment of the work as a whole
A couple of detailed pics from the show, in science blue because it better shows the seams. Front.Back.
While I would like the seams to be correct, these are not vital elements. Im personally not too concerned about the boots, which varied in length on the show, although Uhura almost always wore the longer, knee-length boots.
Most important, to me, is the right length (very short), the asymmetric neckline with its trim, and the flap/pleats on the left hip and right buttock. If possible, assuming transparencies don't cause problems, the tights should be included in the design.
So, if they were to do the right thing and make the correct uniform option, what do others think are the most important elements? What are the must haves that, to you, would make any uniform qualify as a reasonable representation of the Original Series female uniform as worn by Uhura.
Let's try to give the devs the information they need to know what they have to do to satisfy (at least most of) us that the terms of 'TOS uniforms with miniskirts' would be fulfilled.
A sense of entitlement is only inappropriate if you are not in fact entitled to something. TOS uniforms including miniskirts were advertised, they were a selling point, for a more expensive version of the game than the standard copy without the uniforms. Some reasonable representation of the TOS uniforms is what we are entitled to receive. The current miniskirt and men's uniform top combination is not a reasonable representation. It may be a miniskirt, but it is not a TOS uniform miniskirt.
For the benefit of the devs and any detailed discussion, here are some large pictures of Uhura's uniform, including many detail shots.
And my suggestion for how to implement it, based on the limitations that I am aware of such as the placement of the combadge. Here
The question is what needs to be included to make any uniform qualify as a TOS miniskirt? What doesn't matter too much if it is not exactly right?
The sleeves are rather short, being above the wrist. That is something that doesn't matter much and would not be worth the headache of the artist trying to accommodate, as it would probably be much easier to use the same length as the other uniform tops.
There were several variations on how the seams were arranged on the uniforms, but I am partial to the diagonal seams from the last season. I think they are make it a little more visually interesting and might be a bit more fun for the artist, as modern graphic artists seem to dislike leaving plain areas that arent filled with noodling and details, sometimes to the detriment of the work as a whole
A couple of detailed pics from the show, in science blue because it better shows the seams. Front.Back.
While I would like the seams to be correct, these are not vital elements. Im personally not too concerned about the boots, which varied in length on the show, although Uhura almost always wore the longer, knee-length boots.
Most important, to me, is the right length (very short), the asymmetric neckline with its trim, and the flap/pleats on the left hip and right buttock. If possible, assuming transparencies don't cause problems, the tights should be included in the design.
So, if they were to do the right thing and make the correct uniform option, what do others think are the most important elements? What are the must haves that, to you, would make any uniform qualify as a reasonable representation of the Original Series female uniform as worn by Uhura.
Let's try to give the devs the information they need to know what they have to do to satisfy (at least most of) us that the terms of 'TOS uniforms with miniskirts' would be fulfilled.
Can't think of any to add to this, wonderful post! Now I hope some of the drama in this thread has not put Cryptic off from even acknowledging it.
I would like to humbly ask to give you a few suggetsions.
1) wrath of khan uniform does not offer different rank options...wish it did...there is difference in the uniform of an admiral.
2) I hate mentioning this but in world of warcraft when you select a chair to sit in it has an icon on it and you sit noramlly not half in the chair. (just a thought)
3) the ability to customize your bridges' detail down to carpet color , where to place consoles, official ship uniform, etc would be really nice.
4) perhaps a list of rare and very rare drops like an armory would be helpful.
5) an official strategy guide would be nice. 6) an option to purchase the alternate uniforms with cryptic points or credits would be cool.
6) next generation admirals' uniform is also different than capatain and below.
7) since the romulan government is in some dissarray perhaps a federation cloaking device may be in order, or even the phase- cloak?
8) klingons in tier 4 and 5 PVP \seem to have a definite advantage compared to federation.
9) I love this game and if there is anything i can do to help you guys with any iof the issues i would be more than happy to do what i can. Thank you
You're confused, this has nothing to do with the DDE.
If you're referring to the MU uniforms, which you received as a bonus to purchasing a CO lifetime sub, then you already received the lifetime sub you paid for. The extra item was for an entirely different game that you may not have ever even played. If you bought the CO lifetime for that uniform, then there is no reasonable argument that is going to reach you.
Players have sued MMO companies before, e.g. EA (Ultima Online) and Blizzard (WOW).
MMO companies have sued players before, e.g. Mythic (DAOC) and Funcom (AO).
Not this exact issue though if that's what you meant. MMO companies do not usually do this kind of thing.
Google is not the place to look. Consult Lexis-Nexis or your law library.
So there are no news stories on these lawsuits? Because I'm pretty sure I can find out when Jack Emmert is feeling a little bloated with all the gaming news coverage on the internet. A search for news stories related to MMO's and lawsuits turned up zilch. Doing news searches back to 1980, the closest I can find are this lawsuit from 2002 where Mythic was fighting people who were buying items and reselling them for actual cash, this one where people were unhappy about the DRM in Spore (which was perfectly reasonable to be upset about), and this case from 1998 that is a bit of a dead end since I'm bored now. The one from 1998 (you know, 12 years ago) is possibly the closest to what you're describing and if it had ever gone anywhere it would be referenced in articles far and wide. Good grief, I now know far more about a lawsuit Blizzard was in over the rights to a font than I ever needed to, but I can't find a single case anywhere that is remotely close to what people are describing here.
People suing MMO developers over their paper dolls are like unicorns. No matter how much you want to believe in them, they just don't exist. Sure, you can glue a horn to a horse's head, but it aint going to TRIBBLE rainbows for you.
You've come to the discussion late and are missing the facts. People are mad because support has been telling them they are NOT going to provide something that they thought was included in a $150 CO lifetime subscription.
The majority of the posts have been about the TOS uniforms, and I'm far from late to this particular party. Again, if you bought that CO lifetime sub for the MU uniforms, you're a sucker. Suckers get taken. You have a lifetime sub to CO, which is what you paid for. Any perks in a game that had not yet even had a firm release date are icing on the cake and while even though I didn't buy them (I did buy the DDE for the TOS uniforms, but CO is a terrible game) I want to see them implemented, you have got to understand what a low priority a costume available to a tiny percentage of players who only have a problem with half of their characters (assuming a 50/50 male/female split, which is being generous) when the game hasn't even reached it's first billing date yet. To say there are bigger fish to fry is like saying the Titanic took on a little water.
I want to see gals running around with their bellies out and all that, I want my scooped neck on my TOS uniforms, and I want a few other things in the costume creator. I also want to stop seeing downtime when I want to play, queues to go away, missions to not bug out on me, items not take five minutes to equip, and a whole lot of other things that are far more important.
The dev comments seem to indicate they're aware of the problem and plan on getting to it ASAP. The problem of course is what your definition of the "AP" portion of that is. For far too many posters, they expect everything to be fixed yesterday no matter how trivial the problem may be or how many other issues there might be that would take precedence.
Making ridiculous statements regarding "entitlement" is a little played out. The fact is that if you pay for a thing, you are entitled to that thing. Sometimes a sense of entitlement is firmly grounded in reality. Every single CO Lifetimer actually IS entitled to every item on the features list. Only half of one of the expected features has been delivered.
No, whining and crying like self-important children who were never taught that they can't always have their way at the exact moment they want something is played out. Entitlement and being entitled to something are two different things. I'm referring to people acting like Cryptic kicked their dogs and stole their lunch money because their paper dolls can't play dress up properly. People who paid for CO lifetime subs were entitled to CO lifetime subs. That isn't "half" of what they paid for. It's 100% of what they paid for.
The use of the used car analogy is great, because if you buy a used car sight unseen you're an idiot. If they say it has leather seats but your hind end isn't touching cow-skin, then you're an idiot to expect it to magically transform later on.
It's more like if you bought a used car and the dealer promised that if you came back and bought another car from him a year from now, he'd make sure it has air conditioning. When you get to his lot a year later and he doesn't happen to have any cars on the lot with working air conditioners but he promises to call you the second he can get his hands on one, your deal on the original car isn't suddenly null and void. He hasn't broken his promise, it's that he doesn't have the supply.
Except this is more like you were promised a powder blue mustang, but there's a problem with that color of blue and they've all been recalled. Take the red mustang and be happy, or be patient when people tell you they're working on the problem.
It is totally about paper dolls and senses of entitlement. Pretending otherwise is just a delusional attempt to justify childish behavior. If you're upset the skirts don't look the way you want them to, then offer some constructive criticism (which has been offered, but not by the majority of posters on the subject - the signal to noise ration is ridiculous). If you're upset you don't have your MU uniforms, ask the devs for updates, but don't throw a hissy fit and threaten a lawsuit that's as likely to ever see a courtroom as a guy who owes back child support showing up at gun show catering to single mothers.
The MU uniforms were a perk for a CO lifetime sub. You can play CO forever and always without spending another penny! Yay for you, because you received what you paid for! They'll fix the MU uniforms as quickly as they can, but in the mean time there are hundreds of thousands of other players with far more pressing issues that need to be addressed.
tl;dr: Hurray if you've posted dissenting opinions in this thread or have given the devs constructive criticism without coming off like spoiled brats. There are a few of you, but if you were the only people posting in this thread, it would be about 8 pages long instead of 57.
Let's try to give the devs the information they need to know what they have to do to satisfy (at least most of) us that the terms of 'TOS uniforms with miniskirts' would be fulfilled.
I still believe these missteps on Cryptic's part concerning these costume items are relatively pathetic and completely unexpected considering that one of their strengths as a MMO designer used to be their ability to provide wonderful costume options. Clearly this area has not gotten a decent fraction of the attention it received in City of Heroes or Champions Online.
What's worse is that unlike those previous games the costume designers of this game didn't even have to newly create many of the options related to the Star Trek Universe. As you pointed out most of these options could have just been closely copied from many existing examples available online. Everyone knows it's easier to copy existing things like this than to have to come up with something entirely brand new. There's really no excuse for this kind of thing here.
I do like this game in general, but the fumbling of these costume items has been a big downer to say the least.
I understand what you are saying and I agree to a point. However, calling us suckers for making a purchase based on the Bonuses is wrong. This is WHY we made that purchase, to get the BONUSES. Yes, I paid the money for a Lifetime Champions Online Subscription, but I also paid for extra CO character slots, STO Closed Beta invite and Mirror Universe Outfit.
Lifetime CO Sub - Received
CO Extra Character Slots - Received
STO Closed Beta Invite - Received
Mirror Universe Outfit - PENDING (According to CO website - supposed to be available Day 1 of Live)
This is not a case about people whining about not getting the item. This is a case of FRAUD, paying for a service and/or item not received.
Example: You order and pay for a brand new car based on a flyer you have in front of you. It says there are mag wheels, sun roof, Bose Stereo system, Holographic GPS system, Leather Seats and the works. The car is perfect in every way and that Holographic GPS system will be awesome and you can't wait to get it home and drive it. But you have to wait for them to make it. So, 6 months later your new car is ready and you got everything you paid for except that Holographic GPS system. Its either not installed, or its a normal GPS system with a Hologram sticky you can place on your window. Would you not want your money back or given what you paid for? Would you not demand that the company keep their promises instead of advertising something they never intended to give you in the first place?
We have waited more then 2 weeks for any response about the whole MU issue and have received ZERO replies. What as paying customers are we supposed to do if the company will not keep its word and treats us like garbage? Are we not worth a response, after all, we are the one who first paid out all the money that kept Cryptic going, so they could continue to make STO.
I feel constrained to point out that I paid extra for TOS uniforms, not TOSlike uniforms. TOS uniforms, not reminiscent-of-TOS uniforms.
TOS uniforms for men and women, not TOS men's uniforms that the women can also wear.
OK we finally got skirts. Yes, they are mini-skirts, no, they are not TOS skirts.
The women still don't have female-style asymmetrical neckline TOS uniforms.
Neither sex has the proper boots yet.
We now have thigh-high boots, and those did appear in TOS, but never on the regular crew. Only the mirror universe TOS crew wore those. I like those though, and would like to keep them.
The TOS uniform for men looks quite nice, and I am pleased with it. I am also relieved that I can finally dress my BOs in the TOS uniform. I don't have TOS-style boots for men or women, yet.
The TOS boot was a soft leather, close fitting, pointed-toe, nearly knee-high boot with a 2 inch heel. Both women and men had a bit of a heel, kind of like "cowboy" boots, but snug fitting and plain black.
No, whining and crying like self-important children who were never taught that they can't always have their way at the exact moment they want something is played out. Entitlement and being entitled to something are two different things. I'm referring to people acting like Cryptic kicked their dogs and stole their lunch money because their paper dolls can't play dress up properly. People who paid for CO lifetime subs were entitled to CO lifetime subs. That isn't "half" of what they paid for. It's 100% of what they paid for.
Then you've failed at reading comprehension. The MU uniforms were supposed to be availible at release. They weren't, not even for males were they availible *at release*. However, they were availible for males shortly after.
If someone pays for something and it's supposed to be available at a specific date and it's not, then the company is responsible, not the person paying the money for it.
Also, you said suckers get taken. Are you wearing a tin foil hat? That's a paranoid statement right there. Crypic is not some shady peddler trying to sell you a Rolex for pennies on the dollar down in the L.A. Garment District. They're a registered corporation that has to abide by the Federal Trade Commission's regulations. The FTC does not abide by the old Latin adage "caveat emptor."
Also, the people who bought the CO Lifetime Subs bought more than a CO Lifetime Subscription. You're basically saying "You bought a BigMac combo meal, you got a Big Mac and fries. So what if you they only filled your drink half way? You got 100% of what you paid for." Sorry, but that logic does not work. There is a list of items. Show me one person who thinks that they got everything that was advertised. Just one.
Lastly, back to the reading comprehension. Personally, I only want exactly what I paid for, don't want it now, I just want it period. However, Cryptic has put their foot down and pretty much said "we don't care if it's not accurate, this is exactly what we're giving you and nothing more". I personally stopped being reasonable when Cryptic stopped being reasonable. Basicaly, say it's a narrow hallway and Cryptic's coming through. I'll step aside politely and let them pass. But the moment they shove me aside is the moment I stop stepping aside.
What I want is a proper TOS uniform, not a sweatshirt with a badge slapped on it and a skirt that's made from a pair of size 50 sweat pants with the legs cut open and stitched together. I'm sorry but that's not a TOS uniform. It's a horrible, short notice, 5 minute Halloween costume with no thought that went into it whatsoever. Anyone can just go to Google Images, punch in "TOS Female Uniform" and get very consistent image results that look like each other but not like STO's female uniform.
I also want a complete MU uniform. So I can put both my male and female crew in one as well as my female characters. Otherwise I see no point. One does not have a crew consisting of more than one uniform. That makes no sense. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to have a bridge crew with mixed uniforms that aren't even from the same era, let alone time line.
If Cryptic says "Ok, we're working on it. But it'll take 6 months because it's a cosmetic thing and we want to get the bulk of the real problems out of the way" that would be good enough for me. I'm not an impatient, whiney little entitled child. I simply want what I paid for, even if it has to be late. It is simply the "working as intended" ticket responses I keep getting that has me upset. Unless the TOS uniform is made to look more accurate and the MU uniform is made availible to females as well, then what they gave us is of less value than what was advertised. That alone is fraud. If they're unwilling to make an effort, then I'm unwilling to accept the fraud knowing that it happened to thousands of other people.
If it was just me that got ripped off, I wouldn't be upset. I'd be disappointed. I'd leave the game and never buy another Cryptic game ever again. But I wouldn't be vocal about it. I'd simply quietly leave. But that's not the case. I'm not the only person Cryptic has slapped with this nonsense.
Comments
You'd also need to go back in time and get a lifetime subscription to Champions.
Marty! Marty, there's a matter of grave importance! The future has a shortage of Mirror Universe uniforms so we need to go BACK to August 2009 and purchase a Champions Online Lifetime Account!
Do the shipyards even carry a DeLorean?
And in legal terms you're living in fantasy land, if the contract didn't specify what you were getting then you just assumed and don't have a leg to stand on, the end.
Thank you, Judge Lt Expendable. Are you done practicing law without a license yet?
I'm stating the obvious.
Your own version of what's obvious. One that is apparently based entirely on your own opinion.
Fact is, it comes down to a matter of definitions.
I'll be honest, I consulted a lawyer about this last week because I was concerned that Cryptic would throw us a fake bone and expect us to accept it.
Here's what it amounts to:
They specified "TOS Uniform" and "Mirror Universe Uniform". They did not delineate exactly what they meant by that in the advertisement. However, it is specific enough that in the end, the deciding factor in the case would likely be what an expert on Star Trek uniforms considers a "TOS Uniform" or a "Mirror Universe Uniform." Experts have already spoken on the inaccuracies of the female TOS uniform. And this is just on accuracy.
Since an era or style for Mirror Universe Uniform was not specified, it could have any appearance, as long as it's called "Mirror Universe Uniform." But it or comparable would need to be available to both genders since it was not explicitly excluded for one or the other.
As to gender: unless they specified that it would only be useful for male characters, it is reasonable to assume that it would be available to characters of both genders. Especially given that the purchase of the Mirror Universe uniforms all predate the date of September 1st, 2009 and were supposed to be delivered, according to the sales contract (advertising a product and taking someone's money for it is a sales contract) on February 2nd. This kind of purchase made far in advance with such specific advertising as "Mirror Universe Uniform", it ends up being an issue of whether the uniform being male only or not would be a deciding factor.
Nearly everyone I have spoken to (now, I've said this before and I hate repeating myself) about the issue agrees that even if they were to play a male character, they would still want matching female uniforms for their female bridge crew. So it is definitely a deciding factor.
I'll agree, the advertising is slightly nebulous. However, Lt.Expendable you are *not* a judge. You are *not* a lawyer. Neither am I, therefore I will confer the matter to my lawyer and should it come down to a suit, to the judge involved. I will not confer it to you, nor would I recommend that anyone confer it to you any more than I would recommend they confer it to me. This is a matter for lawyers and judges to sort out, not opinionated players exhibiting the Dunning-Kruger Effect.
Now, would you kindly stop giving out fallacious legal advice to people on the forums?
and i wish you luck, i mean gods man we have a post right on these forums showing how to do a ToS uni using photoshop on a ingame model. Might i also suggest you get the guy who had cs tell him MU was male only to forward you the letter, it would prove as damining evidence, also get pics of the descriptions...hold on i snapped a pick of the lifetime co snafu might have something for MU promises as well
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/NekoLLX/lolpok.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/NekoLLX/before1.jpg
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/NekoLLX/after1.jpg
It seems pretty obvious to me (especially based on actual dev posts) that they wanted to give us something to use while they worked to improve it. Much like the Klingon faction, it's better to have something that can be tweaked than just a promise of an addition somewhere down the line.
I tweaked all my BO's on my Mudd gimmick character to have giant boobies and skirts yesterday and am glad I had the option to do so. Most of them were even done for free because I was too cheap to waste my free modification. I am swimming in Energy Credits at Lt Cmdr 7 though, so even if I'd had to pay it wouldn't have been anything approaching a big deal.
OH COM"ON.. you can't be serious.
Why ??? It's a "Free" Universe isn't it ??? Shouldn't discriminate Drag Queens, should we ??? :rolleyes:
*By "Retro" I mean the standard STO Badges which are very reminiscent of the TOS Assignment patches.
Eh.. When has this ever even happened before? Keep in mind that this is paid DLC, not just some content that was promised at release but ended up having to be pushed back/abandoned! It's also not a free bonus, despite the constant referal of them being preorder items! It was something that was paid money for and expected on it's February 2nd release date..
Nothing like this has happened before to my knowledge!
I do appreciate the artist's hard work and hope they continue to improve on the design.. That's the nicest thing I can say about the situation.. I can't fault anyone for being angry and upset even after/if these are perfected.
The problem is that it isn't DLC and it was one of several different extra items that came with the DDE.
Precedent doesn't exist the other way around, either.
I will fault people for being whiny, entitled babies about things that the dev team have acknowledged as problems and promised to resolve. Especially when the game has been out for less than a month. Especially when they started five minutes after the server launched with the official day one patch.
You're confused, this has nothing to do with the DDE.
Players have sued MMO companies before, e.g. EA (Ultima Online) and Blizzard (WOW).
MMO companies have sued players before, e.g. Mythic (DAOC) and Funcom (AO).
Not this exact issue though if that's what you meant. MMO companies do not usually do this kind of thing.
Google is not the place to look. Consult Lexis-Nexis or your law library.
You've come to the discussion late and are missing the facts. People are mad because support has been telling them they are NOT going to provide something that they thought was included in a $150 CO lifetime subscription.
I agree the MU shirt looks great but skimping on details isn't acceptable to me... including the medals. I would have additional medals unlock as you gain rank. Or at the very least, a drop-down to just add them to the shirt.
Lot's of attention to detail was given to Starship avatars. The artists did a wonderful job. I think it's a shame we don't have the same attention given to character clothing.
In any case, I will take Female MU Uniforms over terran medallions any day!
$200 lifetime subscription actually. In some cases multiples because they have family members.
To Geekboy:
Making ridiculous statements regarding "entitlement" is a little played out. The fact is that if you pay for a thing, you are entitled to that thing. Sometimes a sense of entitlement is firmly grounded in reality. Every single CO Lifetimer actually IS entitled to every item on the features list. Only half of one of the expected features has been delivered.
I look at it this way. I go to a car dealer and purchase something that is supposed to mean that I can get the next car that comes out with a "leather interior", When the next car comes out, the "leather interior" meant just the back to the driver's side chair, not the seat or any of the other seats. This is deceptive marketing, possibly very illegal, and no amount of the usual "omg! you have an undue sense of entitlement" is going to make the problem go away.
Also, it's not about a paperdoll. It's about money spent. Don't you get it? Either we want my money back or we want what we paid for. The nature of what we paid for does not matter. It simply does not matter. We paid for a thing, therefore we are entitled to that thing; yet we did not get that thing. It really is that simple.
For the benefit of the devs and any detailed discussion, here are some large pictures of Uhura's uniform, including many detail shots.
Star Trek Exhibition
And my suggestion for how to implement it, based on the limitations that I am aware of such as the placement of the combadge. Here
The question is what needs to be included to make any uniform qualify as a TOS miniskirt? What doesn't matter too much if it is not exactly right?
The sleeves are rather short, being above the wrist. That is something that doesn't matter much and would not be worth the headache of the artist trying to accommodate, as it would probably be much easier to use the same length as the other uniform tops.
There were several variations on how the seams were arranged on the uniforms, but I am partial to the diagonal seams from the last season. I think they are make it a little more visually interesting and might be a bit more fun for the artist, as modern graphic artists seem to dislike leaving plain areas that arent filled with noodling and details, sometimes to the detriment of the work as a whole
A couple of detailed pics from the show, in science blue because it better shows the seams. Front. Back.
While I would like the seams to be correct, these are not vital elements. Im personally not too concerned about the boots, which varied in length on the show, although Uhura almost always wore the longer, knee-length boots.
Most important, to me, is the right length (very short), the asymmetric neckline with its trim, and the flap/pleats on the left hip and right buttock. If possible, assuming transparencies don't cause problems, the tights should be included in the design.
So, if they were to do the right thing and make the correct uniform option, what do others think are the most important elements? What are the must haves that, to you, would make any uniform qualify as a reasonable representation of the Original Series female uniform as worn by Uhura.
Let's try to give the devs the information they need to know what they have to do to satisfy (at least most of) us that the terms of 'TOS uniforms with miniskirts' would be fulfilled.
Can't think of any to add to this, wonderful post! Now I hope some of the drama in this thread has not put Cryptic off from even acknowledging it.
1) wrath of khan uniform does not offer different rank options...wish it did...there is difference in the uniform of an admiral.
2) I hate mentioning this but in world of warcraft when you select a chair to sit in it has an icon on it and you sit noramlly not half in the chair. (just a thought)
3) the ability to customize your bridges' detail down to carpet color , where to place consoles, official ship uniform, etc would be really nice.
4) perhaps a list of rare and very rare drops like an armory would be helpful.
5) an official strategy guide would be nice. 6) an option to purchase the alternate uniforms with cryptic points or credits would be cool.
6) next generation admirals' uniform is also different than capatain and below.
7) since the romulan government is in some dissarray perhaps a federation cloaking device may be in order, or even the phase- cloak?
8) klingons in tier 4 and 5 PVP \seem to have a definite advantage compared to federation.
9) I love this game and if there is anything i can do to help you guys with any iof the issues i would be more than happy to do what i can. Thank you
If you're referring to the MU uniforms, which you received as a bonus to purchasing a CO lifetime sub, then you already received the lifetime sub you paid for. The extra item was for an entirely different game that you may not have ever even played. If you bought the CO lifetime for that uniform, then there is no reasonable argument that is going to reach you.
So there are no news stories on these lawsuits? Because I'm pretty sure I can find out when Jack Emmert is feeling a little bloated with all the gaming news coverage on the internet. A search for news stories related to MMO's and lawsuits turned up zilch. Doing news searches back to 1980, the closest I can find are this lawsuit from 2002 where Mythic was fighting people who were buying items and reselling them for actual cash, this one where people were unhappy about the DRM in Spore (which was perfectly reasonable to be upset about), and this case from 1998 that is a bit of a dead end since I'm bored now. The one from 1998 (you know, 12 years ago) is possibly the closest to what you're describing and if it had ever gone anywhere it would be referenced in articles far and wide. Good grief, I now know far more about a lawsuit Blizzard was in over the rights to a font than I ever needed to, but I can't find a single case anywhere that is remotely close to what people are describing here.
People suing MMO developers over their paper dolls are like unicorns. No matter how much you want to believe in them, they just don't exist. Sure, you can glue a horn to a horse's head, but it aint going to TRIBBLE rainbows for you.
The majority of the posts have been about the TOS uniforms, and I'm far from late to this particular party. Again, if you bought that CO lifetime sub for the MU uniforms, you're a sucker. Suckers get taken. You have a lifetime sub to CO, which is what you paid for. Any perks in a game that had not yet even had a firm release date are icing on the cake and while even though I didn't buy them (I did buy the DDE for the TOS uniforms, but CO is a terrible game) I want to see them implemented, you have got to understand what a low priority a costume available to a tiny percentage of players who only have a problem with half of their characters (assuming a 50/50 male/female split, which is being generous) when the game hasn't even reached it's first billing date yet. To say there are bigger fish to fry is like saying the Titanic took on a little water.
I want to see gals running around with their bellies out and all that, I want my scooped neck on my TOS uniforms, and I want a few other things in the costume creator. I also want to stop seeing downtime when I want to play, queues to go away, missions to not bug out on me, items not take five minutes to equip, and a whole lot of other things that are far more important.
The dev comments seem to indicate they're aware of the problem and plan on getting to it ASAP. The problem of course is what your definition of the "AP" portion of that is. For far too many posters, they expect everything to be fixed yesterday no matter how trivial the problem may be or how many other issues there might be that would take precedence.
No, whining and crying like self-important children who were never taught that they can't always have their way at the exact moment they want something is played out. Entitlement and being entitled to something are two different things. I'm referring to people acting like Cryptic kicked their dogs and stole their lunch money because their paper dolls can't play dress up properly. People who paid for CO lifetime subs were entitled to CO lifetime subs. That isn't "half" of what they paid for. It's 100% of what they paid for.
The use of the used car analogy is great, because if you buy a used car sight unseen you're an idiot. If they say it has leather seats but your hind end isn't touching cow-skin, then you're an idiot to expect it to magically transform later on.
It's more like if you bought a used car and the dealer promised that if you came back and bought another car from him a year from now, he'd make sure it has air conditioning. When you get to his lot a year later and he doesn't happen to have any cars on the lot with working air conditioners but he promises to call you the second he can get his hands on one, your deal on the original car isn't suddenly null and void. He hasn't broken his promise, it's that he doesn't have the supply.
Except this is more like you were promised a powder blue mustang, but there's a problem with that color of blue and they've all been recalled. Take the red mustang and be happy, or be patient when people tell you they're working on the problem.
It is totally about paper dolls and senses of entitlement. Pretending otherwise is just a delusional attempt to justify childish behavior. If you're upset the skirts don't look the way you want them to, then offer some constructive criticism (which has been offered, but not by the majority of posters on the subject - the signal to noise ration is ridiculous). If you're upset you don't have your MU uniforms, ask the devs for updates, but don't throw a hissy fit and threaten a lawsuit that's as likely to ever see a courtroom as a guy who owes back child support showing up at gun show catering to single mothers.
The MU uniforms were a perk for a CO lifetime sub. You can play CO forever and always without spending another penny! Yay for you, because you received what you paid for! They'll fix the MU uniforms as quickly as they can, but in the mean time there are hundreds of thousands of other players with far more pressing issues that need to be addressed.
tl;dr: Hurray if you've posted dissenting opinions in this thread or have given the devs constructive criticism without coming off like spoiled brats. There are a few of you, but if you were the only people posting in this thread, it would be about 8 pages long instead of 57.
I still believe these missteps on Cryptic's part concerning these costume items are relatively pathetic and completely unexpected considering that one of their strengths as a MMO designer used to be their ability to provide wonderful costume options. Clearly this area has not gotten a decent fraction of the attention it received in City of Heroes or Champions Online.
What's worse is that unlike those previous games the costume designers of this game didn't even have to newly create many of the options related to the Star Trek Universe. As you pointed out most of these options could have just been closely copied from many existing examples available online. Everyone knows it's easier to copy existing things like this than to have to come up with something entirely brand new. There's really no excuse for this kind of thing here.
I do like this game in general, but the fumbling of these costume items has been a big downer to say the least.
I understand what you are saying and I agree to a point. However, calling us suckers for making a purchase based on the Bonuses is wrong. This is WHY we made that purchase, to get the BONUSES. Yes, I paid the money for a Lifetime Champions Online Subscription, but I also paid for extra CO character slots, STO Closed Beta invite and Mirror Universe Outfit.
Lifetime CO Sub - Received
CO Extra Character Slots - Received
STO Closed Beta Invite - Received
Mirror Universe Outfit - PENDING (According to CO website - supposed to be available Day 1 of Live)
This is not a case about people whining about not getting the item. This is a case of FRAUD, paying for a service and/or item not received.
Example: You order and pay for a brand new car based on a flyer you have in front of you. It says there are mag wheels, sun roof, Bose Stereo system, Holographic GPS system, Leather Seats and the works. The car is perfect in every way and that Holographic GPS system will be awesome and you can't wait to get it home and drive it. But you have to wait for them to make it. So, 6 months later your new car is ready and you got everything you paid for except that Holographic GPS system. Its either not installed, or its a normal GPS system with a Hologram sticky you can place on your window. Would you not want your money back or given what you paid for? Would you not demand that the company keep their promises instead of advertising something they never intended to give you in the first place?
We have waited more then 2 weeks for any response about the whole MU issue and have received ZERO replies. What as paying customers are we supposed to do if the company will not keep its word and treats us like garbage? Are we not worth a response, after all, we are the one who first paid out all the money that kept Cryptic going, so they could continue to make STO.
I'd ignore him. He's a self-proclaimed forum griefer and he's here to troll.
I haven't read anything else that geekboy has posted, so I can't comment on his usual behavior, but everything he just said is true.
TOS uniforms for men and women, not TOS men's uniforms that the women can also wear.
OK we finally got skirts. Yes, they are mini-skirts, no, they are not TOS skirts.
The women still don't have female-style asymmetrical neckline TOS uniforms.
Neither sex has the proper boots yet.
We now have thigh-high boots, and those did appear in TOS, but never on the regular crew. Only the mirror universe TOS crew wore those. I like those though, and would like to keep them.
The TOS uniform for men looks quite nice, and I am pleased with it. I am also relieved that I can finally dress my BOs in the TOS uniform. I don't have TOS-style boots for men or women, yet.
The TOS boot was a soft leather, close fitting, pointed-toe, nearly knee-high boot with a 2 inch heel. Both women and men had a bit of a heel, kind of like "cowboy" boots, but snug fitting and plain black.
http://allyourtrekarebelongto.us/crewman.jpg
Note the neckline, note the boots.
Thanks
Then you've failed at reading comprehension. The MU uniforms were supposed to be availible at release. They weren't, not even for males were they availible *at release*. However, they were availible for males shortly after.
If someone pays for something and it's supposed to be available at a specific date and it's not, then the company is responsible, not the person paying the money for it.
Also, you said suckers get taken. Are you wearing a tin foil hat? That's a paranoid statement right there. Crypic is not some shady peddler trying to sell you a Rolex for pennies on the dollar down in the L.A. Garment District. They're a registered corporation that has to abide by the Federal Trade Commission's regulations. The FTC does not abide by the old Latin adage "caveat emptor."
Also, the people who bought the CO Lifetime Subs bought more than a CO Lifetime Subscription. You're basically saying "You bought a BigMac combo meal, you got a Big Mac and fries. So what if you they only filled your drink half way? You got 100% of what you paid for." Sorry, but that logic does not work. There is a list of items. Show me one person who thinks that they got everything that was advertised. Just one.
Lastly, back to the reading comprehension. Personally, I only want exactly what I paid for, don't want it now, I just want it period. However, Cryptic has put their foot down and pretty much said "we don't care if it's not accurate, this is exactly what we're giving you and nothing more". I personally stopped being reasonable when Cryptic stopped being reasonable. Basicaly, say it's a narrow hallway and Cryptic's coming through. I'll step aside politely and let them pass. But the moment they shove me aside is the moment I stop stepping aside.
What I want is a proper TOS uniform, not a sweatshirt with a badge slapped on it and a skirt that's made from a pair of size 50 sweat pants with the legs cut open and stitched together. I'm sorry but that's not a TOS uniform. It's a horrible, short notice, 5 minute Halloween costume with no thought that went into it whatsoever. Anyone can just go to Google Images, punch in "TOS Female Uniform" and get very consistent image results that look like each other but not like STO's female uniform.
I also want a complete MU uniform. So I can put both my male and female crew in one as well as my female characters. Otherwise I see no point. One does not have a crew consisting of more than one uniform. That makes no sense. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever to have a bridge crew with mixed uniforms that aren't even from the same era, let alone time line.
If Cryptic says "Ok, we're working on it. But it'll take 6 months because it's a cosmetic thing and we want to get the bulk of the real problems out of the way" that would be good enough for me. I'm not an impatient, whiney little entitled child. I simply want what I paid for, even if it has to be late. It is simply the "working as intended" ticket responses I keep getting that has me upset. Unless the TOS uniform is made to look more accurate and the MU uniform is made availible to females as well, then what they gave us is of less value than what was advertised. That alone is fraud. If they're unwilling to make an effort, then I'm unwilling to accept the fraud knowing that it happened to thousands of other people.
If it was just me that got ripped off, I wouldn't be upset. I'd be disappointed. I'd leave the game and never buy another Cryptic game ever again. But I wouldn't be vocal about it. I'd simply quietly leave. But that's not the case. I'm not the only person Cryptic has slapped with this nonsense.